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Episode 7: Enterprise and Entrepreneurship
20 Plays1 hour ago
In this episode, host Stuart Norton is joined by four inspiring guests from across the education and enterprise sectors to explore the evolving role of enterprise and entrepreneurship in higher education. Michelle Phillips, Lisa McMullan, Alison Price, and Leigh Sear discuss inclusive language, student motivation, social value creation, and the future of enterprise education.
From redefining what it means to be “enterprising” to embedding real-world skills into the curriculum, this lively conversation covers the challenges, opportunities, and trends shaping how we prepare students for a dynamic world. Plus, don't miss the light-hearted edu-biscuit segment celebrating National Biscuit Day 🍪.
Topics include:
- Social entrepreneurship and value creation
- Inclusive, embedded enterprise education
- Practical trends: AI, microlearning, and student engagement
- Top tips for educators to make an immediate impact
Perfect for educators, innovators, and anyone passionate about student success and future-ready learning.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Student Success Pod'
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello and welcome to our podcast, Student Success Pod. I'm your host, Stuart Norton, and here we discuss the core thematic areas of student success. Please do remember to follow the series, give it a like and share with your colleagues.
00:00:25
Speaker
This way you can stay up to date with new episodes and activity related to student success.
Meet the Guests: Enterprise and Entrepreneurship
00:00:30
Speaker
Today we have four brilliant guests from across the sector talking to the topic of enterprise and entrepreneurship.
00:00:37
Speaker
Hello, Michelle. Hi, nice to be here. Please, Michelle, please do introduce yourself and tell everyone where you're from. Oh, hi. Yes. My name is Michelle Phillips and I am Head of Enterprise at the Royal Northern College of Music in Manchester.
00:00:52
Speaker
Fantastic. Thank you, Michelle. And welcome. Lisa, if I can come to you next. Hi, Stuart. It's nice to be here. I'm Lisa, Lisa McMullen. I'm Director of Development at the Women's Organisation. We're a women's economic development agency promoting entrepreneurship.
00:01:08
Speaker
And I'm also a a a consultant with Enterprise Evolution working in Ireland. Fantastic. Thank you, Lisa, and welcome. ah Alison, how are you? hi Yeah, great to be here. It's ah Alison Price. I'm a consultant working for Enterprise Evolution, and my role is basically creating entrepreneurial outcomes in others through the work that I do.
00:01:31
Speaker
Brilliant. Thank you, Alison. And last, but by no means least, Lee. Thanks Stuart, good to be here. I'm Lee Sear, Chief Executive of Svedi Solutions, which is part the Svedi Group, and we're the Sector Skills Body for Business and Enterprise in the UK.
00:01:48
Speaker
Fantastic. Thank you colleagues and welcome. This is going to be a really exciting podcast with lots to get our teeth into.
National Biscuit Day: A Humorous Interlude
00:01:55
Speaker
But talking getting our teeth into things, it wouldn't be the podcast if we didn't start off with with with the famous EduBiscuit section.
00:02:02
Speaker
ah Colleagues may or may not know that the 29th of May is actually National Biscuit Day, ah special date in anyone's calendar, but certainly mine, and a second only, I presume, to deadlines, departmental coffee meetings.
00:02:15
Speaker
ah Biscuits have long been the unofficial currency of higher education, the universal symbol of goodwill in meetings, the peace offering, and the fuel behind many a late-night innovation strategy.
00:02:26
Speaker
And I think it's fair to say that if we think about it, no great idea has ever really been started over a salad. So where it's from ginger nuts to digestives, biscuits remind us that success is often built on a small comforting ritual.
00:02:39
Speaker
So today, whether you are pitching a bold new project or just trying to survive another team's call, raise your cuppa and toast to the biscuit, the crunchy cornerstone of collegiality. And indeed, our current winner, the yeah the chocolate hot knob, um which is leading in our academic stakes of the most popular biscuits, or certainly the most being dunked by by our listen um by our guests, I should say.
00:02:58
Speaker
A 2014 study by Dr. Stuart Faramond actually found that the chocolate hobnob's OT structure made it the scientifically superior for tea dunking, absorbing liquid without structural collapse and adding a layer of chocolate so you've both got resilience and rewards, something which I think speaks to our ah topic of enterprise and entrepreneurship today.
00:03:17
Speaker
Whether you should dunk your biscuits in tea or coffee is perhaps another debate, but now um i will go in reverse order and find out what our guest's favourite biscuit is and whether you're a dunker. Lee?
00:03:29
Speaker
I'm not a dunker because I tend to have herbal teas. So it makes a sort of like a bit of a mess and it's not very pleasant. and And my favourite biscuit is an Amaretti biscuit because it's about the only biscuit now my teeth can cope with before they fall out.
00:03:44
Speaker
but So it's a a nice soft Italian biscuit, usually with a little bit of alcohol. And that's my yeah that's my favourite, the Amaretti biscuit. There we go. There we go. Thank you, Lee.
00:03:57
Speaker
Alison. Alison. and Yeah, I was just thinking, I think you can chart your life through the biscuits that you were into at the time. So I think with Lee saying about your teeth going, maybe that reflects that as well.
00:04:09
Speaker
Because I was thinking what got me through my dissertation at college was the chocolate hobnob, which I know is the kind of winning favourite on the podcast series at the moment. So that was the thing that I was dunking the most while I was writing.
00:04:21
Speaker
And I do try not to eat the biscuits so much now, but I can't resist a chocolate bourbon biscuit if given the choice. But yeah, dunking, I think, is an interesting idea. And I want to make some cheesy connection to our work today, because I think it's to do with risk and ah uncertainty and all that sort stuff, as in will it collapse or won't it?
00:04:42
Speaker
So the fact that my yeah um choice is what you've said is the most scientifically robust probably plays to my slightly risk-averse nature. So yeah, so it does all come together.
00:04:53
Speaker
Fantastic. And Lisa? Okay, I'm going to bring something else to the table. I'm going to bring Mary biscuit, which you may or may not know, but it very much, you know, it it reminds me of my um childhood. So it's like a rich tea with extra holes and it's very good for dunking.
00:05:12
Speaker
But it's it my favourite, not least because, and well, it's my mum's name's Mary. So that's always a nice association. And it reminds me of a nice little joke.
00:05:23
Speaker
What kind of biscuits fly? Who knows? deeply yeah Weeplean ones, and Mary is a weeplean one. Thank you. yeah Very good, very good. Weeplean one, I like it. I like it. Thank you, Lisa.
00:05:38
Speaker
And Michelle, are you a dunker? Oh, I've got to follow that. That was a good one. i want to I've also been thinking about how my favourite biscuit links back to our topic today because I, unlike others here, I have a biscuit that has always been my favourite and has never changed.
00:05:55
Speaker
And that is the glory that is a rich tea finger cream. and my the reason for it being my favourite is its dunkability and I am going to put it out there that this is better than a chocolate hobnob I've said it so so give it a go and the reason that i like it it's quite a simple biscuit but it's very tasty and it's a biscuit that um I quite like something you can do quite quickly and then move on. Quick tea break, quick dunk, move on.
00:06:23
Speaker
You can give it one dunk in a cup of tea. It gets lovely and soft and then you can eat the whole thing and then you're off on your way. So it makes for an efficient biscuit and tea break as well. So, and yeah, rich tea finger cream, nothing better.
00:06:37
Speaker
Fantastic. Well, there you go, colleagues. More biscuits for the leaderboard and ah finding out that that more of our guests are dunkers still. um I think that's probably enough about biscuits for today. So without any further ado, let's talk about student success.
Setting the Stage: QAA Guidance on Enterprise
00:06:54
Speaker
Today we're talking about enterprise and entrepreneurship. um And i think I think a good place to start is perhaps with the definitions. Who would like to come in there?
00:07:05
Speaker
Well, I'm going to start because I think this could be the topic of our whole conversation. It's just such a huge area. But um I would make a plea that we start our conversation by rooting it in the QAA guidance, because I think that is something that connects us all nationally and internationally as the clearest definitions that we can work with.
00:07:23
Speaker
But after that, i know we will all have our own perspectives and thoughts to go with. So that's my opening gambit on that one. Thank you, Alison. Who else would like to come in there?
00:07:35
Speaker
Go on, Michelle. Yeah, I absolutely agree. The QAA guidance is really useful. I think this is a topic that can divide us sometimes, isn't it? In our sector, we can get stuck in definitions.
00:07:45
Speaker
And I've battled with this a lot, especially given that I'm coming from a creative industries perspective and I'm working with music students. And what I find is terminology is super important because there are some words that are sometimes associated with enterprise and entrepreneurship education that some students may might not identify with.
00:08:06
Speaker
And I think part of that is. links to the way of the world and and people's political affiliations or what people see as happening in the world and the and the way that the word entrepreneur is used.
00:08:18
Speaker
and So what i try and do is is something as broad as possible that brings in as many people as possible and what i always use is the notion of turning ideas into value and i found that that works for me i in my context i don't tend to separate entry enterprise entrepreneurship or really use those terms i use creative innovation quite a lot as well so for me i favor something quite broad just to to reach that kind of that target base so that everyone can identify with being able to contribute.
00:08:51
Speaker
Yeah, really interesting. Thank you, Michelle. Lisa. Thanks, Stuart. um I ah absolutely agree with Michelle. And I think picking up some of those terms um or some of the points that you've raised there, it's language is really important. And for me, um I find the the definition and the concepts around Entrecom, which is the European Entrepreneurship Competence Framework,
00:09:16
Speaker
are really, really helpful. And it helps to bridge that gap um between ah people who ah thinking about entrepreneurship as a very business related um concept or an issue wi with academic academics ah and um with educators, because it's underpinned very much about creating value.
00:09:43
Speaker
And I think creating value any academic, any person that is developing an idea, that's what ultimately what they want to do. And it's creating value for others. So I find that is a really useful and transferable um underpinning definition and description of the concept. So I always go back to EntreComp and encourage encourage colleagues to think about it in those terms too.
00:10:06
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Lisa. It's really helpful. And I suspect today we're going to mention a number of different frameworks or models and and links, and we'll make sure that they're all available for our listeners on on our homepage as well.
00:10:19
Speaker
Lee, I can see you'd like to come in there. Yeah, I think also drawing a distinction between the individual and the context. that an individual will have a set of personal enterprising skills, whether that's the you know being able to take initiative, solve problems, deal with uncertainty and ambiguity, but then highlighting the different contexts in which those skills can add value.
00:10:44
Speaker
And one of those being starting a business, which we could define as be you it sort of the entrepreneurship aspect to it. But also those skills can add value in very different contexts, whether that's someone working for someone else,
00:11:00
Speaker
working in the third sector or starting social enterprise. I think we find useful in our work and it's reflected in our standards, that difference between the skills of the individual and the way, in going back to Michelle's point, the way that they create value using those skills and in different contexts.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, can I just mention something on the back of that? Because i think that idea of value is really nice to think about, isn't it? And For me, that's quite key, especially that what I think about quite a lot is things like the knowledge exchange metrics and and what we as institutions are encouraged to be doing.
00:11:39
Speaker
And some of that can seem slightly skewed towards um value that's economic. So um things like encouraging students and staff to grow spin outs, which is fantastic. And that's one kind of value.
00:11:55
Speaker
But I think what's important is that value comes in many forms. So it allows us to represent, champion, support social value, cultural value, value that has an impact on health and well-being, um value that might not necessarily generate income or or have income generation as its main aim.
00:12:13
Speaker
And so for me, that's why it works really, really nicely.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right. The idea of value is really at the heart of it. And I think that's what makes most sense when you're, I do a lot of work with staff development, working with different colleagues in different subjects. And that's the one unifying idea. And and social value makes so much sense to students.
00:12:35
Speaker
It's the way that they look at how they want to join a company, who they want to work with, what they want to do themselves. That social value, you know, there's also lots of, I work with the Social Value Act and lots of, um,
00:12:48
Speaker
change is happening in terms of how we're framing social value as a nation and across Europe. But I think it means a lot to our students to be doing something that makes a difference. And so I think that idea of of value at the heart of it, then value creation, and then potentially venture creation from that makes a lot of sense.
00:13:07
Speaker
But when I do my staff development with with colleagues in different institutions, basically, I always go for the idea of having an idea and and making it happen. which is always been my kind of go-to until Entrecom got introduced when I realised I was doing it wrong because anyone who looks Entrecom will see that there's three key colours at the start of it, three key ideas.
00:13:29
Speaker
and So it's having an idea, making it happen. And then there's another one. And the other one is the resources you need to do it. So if you take away nothing from this this ah podcast, listen, I would suggest that that is a kind of ready reckoner for life that any student can use.
00:13:45
Speaker
that you can use with any, yeah anything you're doing, any challenge you've got, any social, personal project, anything is what is it I'm trying to do? The kind of idea I've got, the the opportunity that's there, um understanding kind of how to make it happen. But the resources is the key missing piece for me that I always just overlooked.
00:14:03
Speaker
Like, am I going to put the time in or do I know the right people to make it happen? and that, the resources don't necessarily need to be the financial or it needs to be, am I going to commit to this on on one kind of level? So for me, that core of Entrecom, whether you get into the 15 petals and the wider ideas behind that, whether you go to the success framework from Advance HE to CQAA and Entrecom come together, but that to me is just a a ready reckoner for life. So i invite you all to use it when you're a bit stumped with a black piece of paper in front of you, just to use those three questions and kickstart your planning.
00:14:39
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. I think the one thing which I'd like to get across to listeners is don't don't be frightened of these terms. You know, get used to it and just think about what's being said, because I personally and colleagues on it on on this call know this. I like to use it as a number letter and I don't see the distinction of employability either. And you can do this with anything. If we look at sustainability skills, well, actually, they're enterprising skills.
00:15:04
Speaker
um and we're just put we're just We're just using a different context. And I think this is really important. For me, there's so many people in academia, but also in those third space professionals, career staff that are working across enterprise and entrepreneurship and employability as well. but i think there's sometimes there's that that fear of what the definition is what does it mean? How does this look like? And I think if we can try and consider them in umbrella terms and keep having those anchors of Entrecomp and the QAA, I think it's just a really, really powerful way of being able to move the conversation forward. Because And rightly or wrongly, and I guess as academics, we'll always have much much discourse, and but we keep coming back to the definitions, and where in some ways we really need to move beyond that and start looking at the the actual value that we can bring to to that conversation within our own roles.
00:15:49
Speaker
I'm going to move us on. And what I'd be really keen to do is to understand from your own perspective and the in the work you're doing at your own... providers and organizations. What is it you're seeing as the trends or the themes? Is there anything that that's impacting your approach? Are there things that are changing?
00:16:05
Speaker
And Michelle, I can see you'd like to
Trends in Social Entrepreneurship
00:16:07
Speaker
come in. And i I'd like to come to you first as well as a ah winner of the Entrepreneurial University of the Year um and some absolutely fabulous work around value added in terms of music and health. And I greatly enjoy reading those those posts that you share on on different things. It's been really enjoyable. So yeah, what kind of trends are you seeing?
00:16:26
Speaker
ah That was very kind. Thank you very much. Yeah, I mean, i love this part of my role and the chance that we have to support young people in their degrees to grow that fire in their belly, to to create new ideas and to do something amazing.
00:16:44
Speaker
um yeah i i really enjoyed having to think about this and i've got three things i was going to mention in terms of trends i think one of them we've just talked about nice link uh which is this the idea of social entrepreneurship there was a report that came out of the appg um on entrepreneurship recently wasn't there that showed that young people if they intended to start a new venture or a business they are more likely than ever for that to be a social enterprise so it's what young people are interested in so that's the first trend i'm definitely seeing um i've been at the rncm for 14 years and i've definitely seen a change
00:17:24
Speaker
in what students want to do with their skills and their passion and their energy. And it's more and more they want to have an impact on the world, make a difference, which is just, I mean, it's one of the most rewarding things about working in this sector, that you get to be part of that. And you see these incredible people who just want to do something brilliant that impacts people who need it.
00:17:43
Speaker
So the trend to want to use skills and expertise to make a difference, I think is definitely growing. and The second trend I think I'm definitely seeing is the need for a focus on access in higher education, access and inclusion and supporting people who might have various things that impact on their life as as part of a higher education institution, which might be caring responsibilities, it might be neurodivergence, it might be somebody who's struggling financially.
00:18:13
Speaker
And I think ah think a lot about this because what we've spent a lot of time doing, which I think was a factor in us winning that Time Tire Award, was we spent a lot of time embedding.
00:18:25
Speaker
everything that we think is important for students to have experience of in terms of practice with idea generation or with um mobilizing others thinking about the the that petal and the entrecom framework everything that we know is important for them we know people can't access if you put it outside the curriculum because they have part-time jobs or they have children to care for or parents so um the The importance of embedding, I think, is definitely a trend I'm seeing. And the final one I'll mention is employability.
00:18:54
Speaker
I think there is an ever-increasing responsibility on us in HE to make sure that people leave our degree programmes ready, ready not just to pay the rent, but ready to have successful, thriving careers that utilise their knowledge and passions and skills.
00:19:09
Speaker
So the responsibility on us to make sure they are trained in things like networking and budget management and project management and all of the wonderful things that entrepreneurship and enterprise education does for them is growing and is not going to go away.
00:19:24
Speaker
So they're my they're my three trends. Perfect. Thank you so much. would like to follow that? Yeah, I'm seeing, i suppose, some positive changes and some negative changes or or things that we're not quite sure. So I'm seeing a lot of drive across working with different universities to try and make sure that it's real world, that it's authentic, that we're seeing real life briefs, ah consultancy projects coming through. So I really welcome that, the chance to work with a small business, the chance to work in teams and actually meaningful teamwork, not just I've counted you and you're a group, but actually meaningful teamwork that makes a difference.
00:20:01
Speaker
So I see all that as really positive. And I'm seeing that coming from the top. And it's not about enterprise. It's about making a difference for the students. And so that kind of trend is something that I think enterprise educators, those of us working in the curriculum and the extracurricular, can see the potential of that and and to get that message into the curriculum, so embedded into the curriculum, as Michelle was saying.
00:20:25
Speaker
But I'm seeing a lot of concern about student engagement. lots of people saying people aren't attending. If they are signing up, they're not coming. They'd rather do it online. They don't want to contribute. The cameras are off. It's difficult to get that engagement im kind of active and people are struggling with that.
00:20:43
Speaker
And then there is the concern of AI. What does that even mean? But actually, for me, those two anchor the need to do enterprise education because they provide opportunities for people to come together, to work together, to challenge themselves to solve problems in as a team to do the PBL, the problem-based learning together. And actually, I think that allows us to come up with solutions that aren't AI-based, that allow students to work together and create that student engagement in the same way. So I kind of hope that enterprise education can be that solution for some of those concerns in higher education.
00:21:21
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, Alison. And really interesting to hear you talk around such things as student engagement, another core component of student success, as well as authenticity, and authentic assessment. You know, the the enterprise and entrepreneurship go across the the plethora of what we're doing in universities. It isn't something that's just a bolt on, an addition. It's something that does need to be embedded, which which talks to Michelle's point as well.
00:21:43
Speaker
Yes, Lisa. Yeah, thanks, Stuart. I'd like to um just... pick up on a couple of things. I think there's there's common themes of what Michelle and Alison have said. And I think there's two things I'd like to really highlight is that I think the ent trend for inclusive entrepreneurship and enterprise and ah entrepreneurship, and it it aligns to what Michelle was saying about accessibility.
00:22:06
Speaker
But I think it's more than that as well. And I think we need to design programs that are inclusive. And I see that particularly in my experience of working but with women and young women as as as students of there is an an issue where we're not seeing as many women engage in enterprise activities. So that's a kind of call to colleagues to think about um how we can how we can address that and how we can ensure that you know all of our students have access to
00:22:38
Speaker
um the support that is available to them and to these ideas and think about how they can build on their they learning and their their development um in an entrepreneurial way.
00:22:49
Speaker
The other trend that I'm seeing is um I do some work with the University of Manchester, um particularly around um research commercialisation or early stage um research commercialisation.
00:23:07
Speaker
And we've had a ah trend or an impact where we're, or a change that we see is that it's about helping to support impactful researchers.
00:23:20
Speaker
And this comes back, I think, to what we were saying earlier as well about knowledge for value creation. And um it's really, we we build on the um entrepreneurial competences as a way of creating impact.
00:23:39
Speaker
And it's it's interesting, Alison was saying about an issue of student engagement. In this particular cohort, what we've experienced over the next number of years is that this is continuing to grow.
00:23:51
Speaker
There is more to demand as there is more awareness that actually m increasingly we have early career researchers engaging in this topic to see how can they really m maximise the impact of their work and how can they engage beyond you know the institution with their local community um and indeed their global community. So I see a ah real trend there about researchers having um the opportunity and tea to have wider impact and and a real increase in the desire to do that.
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. And I think a good a good point and a good nod to the fact that this isn't just about undergraduate programs as well. it's about all of those journeys and for the postgraduate is so important as well. um An area that I know is particularly keen to your heart as well, Lee, the postgraduate community.
00:24:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I suppose I've, working with our centres of excellence, I think I see two or three trends. The first is, and picking up on what Michelle and Alison said, is a change in demand from students.
00:25:01
Speaker
but they want more direct support. And I think there's been two or three recent surveys that have highlighted that I think because the change in circumstances for students in the environment, which we find ourselves in, they want more direct support to get from idea to action.
00:25:19
Speaker
And therefore that has implications not only for, sort of, you know, what's delivered in the curriculum, but then also that employability support as well. You know, they're looking for, you know, skills development tailored support rather than it being more generic offerings.
00:25:35
Speaker
So think that's the first thing we're seeing. The second thing that I'm seeing is enterprise and entrepreneurship linked to sustainability more and more. So increasing number of masters, picking up on that postgraduate point, masters, you know enterprise and sustainability, entrepreneurship, sustainability and innovation.
00:25:54
Speaker
And i think I think that's going to be a challenge for higher education institutions going forward because how do they join up the dots between sustain sustainability in different disciplines?
00:26:08
Speaker
I was talking to a colleague in the institution and they were saying, I think we've got 30 masters that mentioned sustainability. So it's about how do we get those joined up? So they're sort of, you know, they're presenting sort of a, you know, what do we mean by sustainability in this institution? And is that filtered through our postgraduate offerings?
00:26:29
Speaker
And I think picking up on something that Michelle said, we have been involved in a couple of design sprints for new masters. And this, it's really interesting. now I haven't seen it really about providing students with different exit points.
00:26:45
Speaker
So yes, you sign up for a master's, but if your circumstances change and you only get through the first term, we'll give you a certificate and we'll market the master's as a certificate. diploma, masters. And i you know yeah I think you see courses like presented as essential. So the first bit is an essentials bit.
00:27:05
Speaker
So for whatever reason you have to drop out or your circumstances change, you get recognition of learning at different points in that journey rather than having to wait for the whole year to get your award at the end.
00:27:17
Speaker
And it was really interesting how they're trying to design that, these institutions, how they're trying to design that as part of their offerings. as well. Yeah, so actually building that into the programme rather than just having it as ah as an exit route once you get to an award board. Yeah, no, interesting. interesting Interesting.
00:27:35
Speaker
think that perhaps leads on to the next question. That's if you could change one thing about ah enterprise entrepreneurship and the approaches that we take in higher education, what would it be?
Embedding Entrepreneurship in Education
00:27:43
Speaker
um Who would like to start us with that one?
00:27:48
Speaker
I'll have a go. What I'd like is, I suppose, and playing a bit devil's advocate greater alignment between what institutions say and what they do you know and i have to be careful because we've got michelle from entrepreneurial university of the year ah but i think that sometimes if institutions say that they're enterprising and then they're entrepreneurial that that is then embedded in their processes and their practices so if
00:28:22
Speaker
We want to co-create programs with small business owner managers. Some of the common barriers are therefore removed towards that process. So therefore, that's Alison's point that hopefully then we are providing students with authentic experiences.
00:28:39
Speaker
But those experiences are co-created with people that they may then end up working with. after their degree, they've completed their degree. So I think that greater fit sometimes between what institutions say they are and what they actually do then in terms of their processes and practices.
00:29:00
Speaker
Can I come in there? Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point. And I have to say, working nationally with lots of different colleagues and institutions, I've seen the impact of the the current climate, the financial situation that lot of institutions find themselves in.
00:29:13
Speaker
And they can have ah mission statement that says enterprise, they can have pillars, they can have values, and they can axe their enterprise team without a moment's thought. They can be very proud of their rate rankings, their ratings, their KEF, and then look at that team as the extra and get rid of them.
00:29:33
Speaker
So I know this has been an ongoing battle for ah colleagues working as enterprise educators for years to try and sort of make the case, constantly have to make the case for who they are and what they do despite the track record they're building, despite the ecosystem they're building.
00:29:48
Speaker
So I think you're completely right in making that that point. And I think my kind of change would be to try and put enterprise really into the mainstream and and to reduce the silos because I think we still work in in institutions in our separate boxes a lot. We see faculties and we see them over there and their professional services and students go over there when they need something as opposed to actually the student experiences.
00:30:15
Speaker
The university helps me do this. The university helps me fly or flourish or whatever. And actually, I think that's where the mindset of higher education needs to be. So if we can see um courses with groups where the students are working together from chemistry in the business school or geography and biochemistry. How fantastic is that? And I know there's timetabling issues and all that stuff that makes it difficult, but we need to, as you said, put your money where your mouth is on the commitment that you say, because institutionally and internally, those changes can be made.
00:30:49
Speaker
the The university has the power to do that. So breaking down those barriers, breaking down those silos and maximising that student experience, the student engagement is not beyond the sector. But I know it isn't easy, but I do think that's something they could do to make a difference for students.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah, ah yeah, I definitely support that. And and I think we saw that, didn't we, with COVID and and obviously how tragic that was across the sector and for many other people. But actually, um we we managed to change the whole system overnight because we had to. So if we can do it for the wrong reasons, you know but surely we we can do it for the right reasons.
00:31:25
Speaker
ah Michelle? um Yeah, can i can I jump in and firstly say I absolutely agree with with what Lee and Alison have just said. I think that idea of institutions putting their money where their mouth is is so important. And for me, it's it's about what Alison just said, it's about the embedding.
00:31:39
Speaker
um We at the RNCM, we have a one third of all of our degree programme credits are dedicated to some form of entrepreneurship education, whether that's placements or independent projects or tax training.
00:31:52
Speaker
And I'm proud of that. And I think that's one of the things that absolutely and could be better approached more widely. i find it really frustrating when you see an institution that um talks about this really big, shiny offering in terms of entrepreneurship education or entrepreneurship awards.
00:32:12
Speaker
And you find out that actually it's only available if students can go along on a Friday evening and spend two hours with a mentor. And it's only available if they can attend some optional sessions at lunch times and and it's And it's basically they do their degree programme and then if they've got the time and if they're able to travel and if they're able to, if they have the confidence to turn up in person, they can access this other extracurricular thing.
00:32:34
Speaker
And it just puts huge barriers in the way. So that idea of um something that is really genuinely, if it's seen to be important by a university, it is put somewhere where everyone can access it and is given the prominence that the university says in its prospectus. Yeah, I absolutely agree.
00:32:53
Speaker
and Can i so can i sneak in can i sneak in another one? and I think the other thing I think is really important that we do in terms of our approach in HE is we break down barriers between us as humans i think the more we can work with our students on an equal footing without hierarchy be vulnerable in in our interactions with them so you know i've tried this thing it didn't work what have you tried let's talk about things that didn't work and be just normal people at different perhaps at different points in our career or different ages but
00:33:29
Speaker
those hierarchies that can sometimes exist in academia, those kind of old fashioned, I think quite dangerous and sometimes quite arrogant ways of interacting with somebody who is part who was paid to be part of a degree programme can put people off.
00:33:44
Speaker
If you can be a ah team, a team of humans working together that are just looking at inspiring each other. and motivating each other without those hierarchy hierarchies that can come between a lecturer and a student.
00:33:55
Speaker
I think you can get much further in and leaving those students with a sense of motivation.
00:34:03
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, Michelle. And for full disclosure, I'm fortunate enough to to have known and met all colleagues on this call prior to this podcast. And RNCN did the fabulous work with with other colleagues.
00:34:16
Speaker
universities or conservatoires on the START project with the OFS. And I think um you being able to ah link this to the knowledge exchange has has also made it very, very powerful as well, because then you're starting to look at impact and you're starting to look at outcomes. And and I think it's just a great way to address it.
00:34:34
Speaker
um So, yeah, wholeheartedly echo your comments there. Lisa, is there anything you're seeing? I mean, I'm umm particularly keen and from from an entrecompt point of view and ah how how that's infiltrating, not only in in higher education here, but across Europe as well.
00:34:51
Speaker
Yeah, thanks. There's a couple of things. It's really interesting to hear the comments and the um before because because I think the link is, you know, it's it's where I was coming from as well. My initial thing is about what needs to change? What would I want to do is is it about putting things into action.
00:35:13
Speaker
You know, as Lee kicked off with, you know, saying and doing isn't always the same. And I think it's what I'd really love to see is more of the rhetoric into reality, and particularly around the in about understanding that we need to design and spend time and effort in the design of our programmes and how we recruit and how we promote awareness and engage with our students or our colleagues at different levels.
00:35:47
Speaker
And i think there's a range of different ways of of doing that. And we can do very practical things. you know I'm thinking of our experience, particularly to engage more women in programs is about you know having the visibility, you know using role models, people who that are relatable and relevant, um ensuring that we use the right language And that comes back to the Entrecom theme.
00:36:12
Speaker
This is, know, what I find is very transferable language and understandable so that we have this common idea um descriptions of whenever we're talking about the need to to be creative or to be innovative, um that we we understand what we're talking about. um and that I can see as as providing real value whenever we think about how we design and how we promote the opportunities and the support um for our students and for our colleagues.
00:36:45
Speaker
mean, one of the things there's EntreComp as a competence framework and of course, um out of the same ah research centre at the European Commission, we also have GreenComp, which is picks up on the descriptors for a sustainability, of which you know, Leah's mentioned as ah as a key term.
00:37:04
Speaker
And these things work together. And I see organisations and partners um partners that I've worked with on the design of enterprise and entrepreneurship support programmes using those frameworks um as the foundations for which, you know, us to develop programmes so that we can be very clear of what our what you can achieve from completing these or undertaking these so that we've got these shared descriptors, you know, for the academics or if we were formally teaching, we've got the shared learning outcomes behind that. But we've also got um much more accessible descriptions of what that can mean, and what that can do. And that's one way that I see entrecomp into action, um or being put into practice
00:37:57
Speaker
There is an initiative at the minute which um we are involved in that is um and an ecosystem, a digital ecosystem which is freely available, ah Entrepreneurship for All, where we've got around about 80 standalone micro-learning sessions which are there that can be used to complement formal entrepreneurship training, but it's It's using these, this the ideas of sustainability, digital financial concepts um as ways in to think about your entrepreneurial journey.
00:38:41
Speaker
And it's it provides us a ah different routine. And I think that's ah an interesting way of doing learn things m that actually can appeal to a wider audience.
00:38:53
Speaker
But one of the things within that contract, as well as those key themes, from a European Commission point of view, they wanted to have dedicated resources that focused on women's entrepreneurship.
00:39:05
Speaker
And that's from thinking about starting a business right the way through to managing small businesses and growing those. m Because they recognize as a, you know, apart from an economic driver, this makes good sense to have more woman setting up and growing their own businesses.
00:39:25
Speaker
So I think, you know, that's but we're seeing it in practice. I'm going to hand over to Alison. I know she's got something to add. Yeah, I'm just thinking of the points you've been making. And just to pick up that I think um Andy Penaluna mapped Green Comp and Entre Comp together, which has been a useful document provided by uk which actually just looks at the two together.
00:39:48
Speaker
But because sustainability is part of EntreComp, don't feel you have to keep adding frameworks and panicking and I need a new thing, I need new thing. EntreComp, I think, is so broad. It's really fantastic in terms of being able to provide um the support that you need if you're writing learning outcomes.
00:40:04
Speaker
But I know the word competence kind of doesn't sit easily in higher education. And I think that can be one of the barriers that people have in terms of using EntreComp or suggesting to senior entrepreneurs teams or the quality team that they're going to use on Trecomp, because competencies doesn't necessarily work so well when we're looking, we're used to Bloom taxonomies, we're used to our and intended learning outcomes. But if you look at places like Hull, and I think UCL, they've actually created their curriculum on competence based, because we all have our phones in our pockets, we have the knowledge we we need. So actually, the competence in using that knowledge is what we need to give our graduates.
00:40:42
Speaker
So I would say to to colleagues, don't be afraid of the fact it's called the European Competence Framework. That's actually one of the the assets. And then I would also just add a big boost to Lisa's work in terms of it's freely available. If you want videos, you want talking heads, you want people sharing things.
00:41:00
Speaker
This is what makes the the learning experience for students authentic. If they can see someone who's done it, if they can hear their voices and hear their challenges. So I do think these kind of rich resources coming out of Europe are really something that we need to tap into and and have that broader mindset because yeah know our UK growth strategy, we're not just going to do this on our own. We're going to do it in the context of ah of an international kind of global market. So I think it's really useful to understand all that. So I just wanted to chip in with a little bit.
00:41:31
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, thanks, Alison. We'll make sure those links are available to listeners on our homepage for the podcast series as well to save you trying to find those. We shall link it all for you.
00:41:44
Speaker
I'm going to move us on now and I'd like to think, um you know, what what is the predictions for the
Universities and Global Challenges
00:41:50
Speaker
future? I know AI has already come up, but how is the landscape going to adapt and change over the next two to three years? Or is two to three years too too long a time? um who Who would like to give me some top predictions for the future? on, Michelle.
00:42:02
Speaker
can Can I? Can I? this is a great question. Great. I'm chomping at the bit. um I think we are at a crucial time, definitely in the UK and further abroad as well, where we are thinking about what universities are for.
00:42:18
Speaker
And I think about this a lot. And this has changed hugely since I did my degree and then and then became um someone who works in HE. When I first started out in higher education, it was about it was all about research metrics.
00:42:33
Speaker
And that was the only thing really that universities were judged on. And then, of course, we got the teaching excellence framework, which was long overdue, I think, the idea that students should be able to know and the quality of the teaching in the place that they're going to.
00:42:45
Speaker
and of And of course, we've also now got the knowledge exchange metrics. And for me, that needs to grow. the knowledge exchange part of that picture because i i think universities have to be about the value that they can add to the wider world now of course some of that value is through the quality of the research and the quality of the teaching but that idea that we focus more on how universities can have a role ah a kind of place-based role or how universities can encourage everybody within those four walls to be regularly sharing the knowledge outside those four walls, whether it's workshops in schools or helping local museums to design exhibitions or public performances, whatever that might be.
00:43:27
Speaker
So for me, I would predict and I would hope that that part of the picture the the importance that's placed on what's known as knowledge exchange continues to grow um knowledge exchange isn't always the most helpful term i don't think it's a slightly unusual term but that idea that universities should be able to create economic and social value outside the four walls so i i predict that will become more important and i also hope it will And I should also say, do you mind if I add?
00:43:58
Speaker
And of course, enterprise entrepreneurship is at the backbone of all of that, because it's about how people choose to do that in new ways, in new impactful ways. How do you take something that's been developed inside an institution and turn it into something that can clearly have value for someone living with Parkinson's or dementia or a school that doesn't have access to a certain sort of education? So entrepreneurship for me fuels and knowledge exchange activity and and impact.
00:44:29
Speaker
No, I'd like to echo Michelle's point, but my worry is that the funding situation will make knowledge exchange less important as a metric, I think.
00:44:41
Speaker
And that's my worry and one of my predictions that that impact will, the or the metrics related to impact will become more narrower and And or the model will change. So we're seeing more of it now, transnational education, that universities will invest that funding in opening campuses in international markets as a way of trying to respond to what the situation is like here.
00:45:11
Speaker
And I think would be a very much a missed opportunity if that is the response. You know, I think it's, yeah, that's my concern, sort of like the nagging,
00:45:22
Speaker
voice there saying this is now a time to actually do more around impact at a local and place-based level. But I think the funding challenges will mean that impact will be repositioned and recasted.
00:45:39
Speaker
Well, you know, you know we'll willll open campuses in India or Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan and that will be our impact
00:45:51
Speaker
you mind if I just, you've given me another idea on the back of that, is it all right if I come back in? Yeah, i I absolutely agree and I think maybe what I didn't articulate very well is the world is in a place where it needs new ideas.
00:46:04
Speaker
I think about this quite often, you know, there's lots of challenges in the world, aren't there? Not just in higher education, but um there's lots of problems that need solving, not just things like the Sustainable Development Goals, which are which are really important, but all sorts of ways in which people are living in times that are very difficult and i think the onus is on us especially people who live in countries that perhaps aren't suffering as some others are the onus is on us to make new ideas to make um life better for people to solve some of these problems so for me anything that encourages universities to do that and to train these amazing people that come through our doors to do that is really important so if that
00:46:46
Speaker
kind of impact aspect of what we do can become more important hopefully it will filter back into our institutions to to do even more thorough training in things like idea generation yeah i think it's really tough isn't it i mean we're we're in a really challenging certainly from from a yeah uk perspective really challenging financial situation within higher education um and i think yeah maybe i'm just know The cogs are spinning inside my head. And for those you that know me, that doesn't happen all that often.
00:47:17
Speaker
um But maybe maybe there's something where we need to come more together as a sector and say, actually, this this is important and this is what it looks like. And these are the reasons why. ah Lisa? Yeah, I'm just prompted by what Michelle has said. is that Think about the sustainable development goals and thinking about sustainable development, i see it as just a growing trend.
00:47:43
Speaker
And whilst it has been around for, so you know, those, some of us working in this area, you know, will will have been applying and and thinking about the impact ah of our work and particularly from and um an entrepreneurial point of view.
00:47:59
Speaker
But I see that as ever increasing. m You know, Alison mentioned earlier, this is something that our students, our young people, you know, resonate with.
00:48:10
Speaker
and are driven by, but also from a very practical point of view, if we're looking at m a
00:48:21
Speaker
legit um legislative changes as well for organisations and small businesses, they're having to report on these things, and that will only ever grow.
00:48:33
Speaker
And so um I think having that awareness, that knowledge and thinking about what they are, but also what it means to put in practice wherever you are in business. You know, we've got in the UK, we've got the Social Value Act coming across um in Europe. We've got the CSRD.
00:48:52
Speaker
So that directive is, you know, shaping how we're doing things going forward. So it's ah it's a good skill for work. um And it's a it's something that if you're going to think about, know,
00:49:06
Speaker
working in a small business or in a large business, it's going to impact on the requirements of work. So it's it's something that's useful to be integrated, embedded into what we do.
00:49:19
Speaker
on, Alison. Yeah, I'm picking up on the discussion about what does it mean for higher education in the UK? I think the context is obviously the global higher education context as well. Our students have choices and our international students have choices and and that is shifting.
00:49:36
Speaker
So a conversation with Jinga, a colleague working in China, and she was asking me about micro degrees. And that was very much something that they're looking at in China. And obviously, the drive to bring lot their students back into China rather than the benefit that we've had of of having those ah students with us for a time. And obviously, the financial implications of that all makes a difference.
00:49:58
Speaker
But when you asked about the kind of predictions for the future, it's a really difficult question at the moment. I think we all find life is moving really fast. And I get asked things about AI and and enterprise and student experience and whether actually this is the death of the consultant and the freelancer, which is obviously a concern to someone like Michelle, who's supporting her students to be independent. you know They're not necessarily starting companies, but they could be their own business.
00:50:25
Speaker
But actually, i I don't think this is going to be the issue. We're going to be looking at um consultants as the users of the knowledge. So the AI is not going to be the answer. So Michelle, I think your students are are safe and and should be taking things forward.
00:50:39
Speaker
But I think this is something that comes back to your work, Stuart, in terms of that actually the blend of those three things coming together, the enterprise, entrepreneurship and employability, is actually the prediction is people flowing in and out of that and in and out of study and in and out of work.
00:50:55
Speaker
And um you know i would say that EntreComp, therefore, is is such a good um underpinning for people because it allows you to to build the skills that are useful for work and for self-employment wherever life takes you and for many of our young people to do both at the same time. And we already have that trend.
00:51:13
Speaker
so I know there's a report out from the OECD that looks at trends in higher education that's looking at things like you broad definition of of trends in education in terms of bodies and storytelling. So mental health and all these issues are going to be part of it. And so our role in kind of tooling our young people up to cope with all of this is really essential. And I think we do have a part to play in that. So I don't necessarily think it's the the death of things, but things are moving fast.
00:51:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's going to be the interesting one, isn't it? Whether we will see, because there's been some really interesting discussions on LinkedIn around
00:52:00
Speaker
governments trying to deal with complexity through simplicity. And we see that in the vocational world. ah It's really, really complex. So we'll just make it really simple and we'll give people 10 pathways for skills development.
00:52:16
Speaker
we're actually, well, no, that's there's not going to be 10 pathways. There's going to be 37 or 45 different pathways. So i think I think the gap sometimes between policy and practice is going to widen.
00:52:28
Speaker
And I think i think that, where you know, if you read futures, they say, what is it possible, probable and potential futures? And that, I think, pick it up on your point there, Alison, around it'd be interesting to see if we do get smaller chunks of learning more micro learning uh things broken up so people can have do more sort of like ah ah pick a pick and mix type approach to higher education as a prediction i think that's where enterprise and entrepreneurship education has a real role and value to play if you're concerned about this and well we can help you deal with that so that again that
00:53:13
Speaker
more co-creation, sort of like user-led sort of education experience. And it'll be really, said you know, whether that's a probable or a possible future, I'm not really sure. But I think hopefully one thing we will see, because we've been involved in a number of Erasmus Plus projects, and that's been their theme, micro-learning. How do we make learning easier to consume?
00:53:38
Speaker
Particularly given, you know, some of the challenges, but you know, because the the global environment, And you know certain markets thinking about why are our students travelling all around the world to go to the UK to study when we could be they could be studying here?
00:53:54
Speaker
So perhaps, hopefully, we can be a bit more innovative and creative in the way that education is delivered going forward as well.
00:54:06
Speaker
just respond to that, Lee, as well? I think that's really interesting, in the whole idea of this micro-learning. um As part of that entrepreneurship for all um initiative, there was a global expert group that came together in terms of advising what this should look like.
00:54:23
Speaker
And that's exactly the key message. And you had people, you know, from an academic and um a business background um from a professional learning and development background. And this is about, this is how we're seeing people learn and being able to to fit that learning in and around there their work, their other responsibilities, and but in maintaining their commitment to improve and development. So I think it's a challenge for us all and on lots of levels. So I suppose the next challenge will be then is like, well, which ones do you choose?
00:54:57
Speaker
There's so much out there. And how do you help then people navigate that? And that in itself is, well, let's say that's for another podcast perhaps, Jim. yeah i'm just I'm just thinking, you know,
00:55:11
Speaker
the is is it Do we need, is it time now for some real disruption within the sector? Because it's, what's being discussed is very different in terms of strands, isn't it? In terms of learning, it's very different to the typical model that we see and and also the typical funding model that that has built up many institutions.
00:55:29
Speaker
um So it's ah it's interesting. I don' i don't know if if someone came in new to the sector, um you know, what would that look like? Michelle? Yeah, absolutely. i think it needs that kind of disruption at the moment, doesn't it? I mean, it needs new ideas.
00:55:44
Speaker
It needs it needs um people who are empowered and motivated to go, do you know what, why don't we try doing things quite differently? and I think that idea that degree programs are about somebody coming along and learning about geography and or history or biology and learning to critique that sector of knowledge and to create new knowledge in that area.
00:56:04
Speaker
But graduating without the ability to run a project or network and find the people you need to find or write a grant application or and check whether your tax return is right, I think those days are going.
00:56:19
Speaker
It's not enough for people to be joining our degree programmes, which absolutely, there's that really kind of interesting question on micro learning. But at the moment, these degree programmes are a large investment in terms of time and money.
00:56:32
Speaker
So for someone to come out without the skills to be able to generate new ideas, to to to shake things up, to try new things for all these problems that exist in our sector and around the world.
00:56:45
Speaker
I don't think that will cut it for much longer. Generating new ideas and challenging current ways of doing things, not just in one degree discipline, is going to be ever more important.
00:56:58
Speaker
One of the things that I learned from, had the pleasure of working with Alan Gibb, Professor Alan Gibb at Durham University Business School. And one of Alan's things was there'll never be disruption in higher education because if there's a new entrant,
00:57:13
Speaker
Who do they go and talk to about setting up the institution? They go and talk to the existing institutions. So the existing institutions just replicate the model for them that they're working to.
00:57:24
Speaker
And I think it's it's really interesting. I think we to get that disruption, i think someone's going to have to come in and not talk to the existing providers about their business models.
00:57:37
Speaker
to get that disruption. And it's a really interesting thing that there weren't, you know, and it's one of the things he used to say, there won't be any disruption because the system manages that by saying, well, come and talk to us and we'll tell you how to do it.
00:57:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're right. But then I think we're seeing our students changing, you know, they're getting their badges on LinkedIn, they're doing their courses, they are doing their micro-credentials. So they are saying, I want to learn differently. I want to learn at midnight and I want to learn in my bedroom.
00:58:07
Speaker
Now, we have views as to whether they're building all the skills that they want or need or that will see them their whole lifelong through their lifelong learning. But actually, they are creating some of that change. So hopefully, we'll see that pressure coming through in a different way.
00:58:25
Speaker
Lee, you prompted me to think this is something, you know, where I'm going off a little bit here. But you've prompted me to remind me of one of my university lectures. They said, you know, there won't be disruption.
00:58:37
Speaker
In the UK, we will never have a revolution because we're all too busy down the garden centre.
00:58:45
Speaker
Or dunking out biscuits, whichever it We're all too busy. It's all right. We can do gardening tips in the next season. yeah I'd like to come to you in turn, really, and ask for for that one top
Educator Tips for Tomorrow
00:59:00
Speaker
tip. What is the one top tip you would like our listeners to take away, a tangible takeaway? it It could be as little as go it go and speak to, if you've got an enterprise team, go and speak to them. or Or it could be something much more much more thorough. um And I'm not going allow you to say, go go and look at Entrecomp, because we're going make that compulsory as part of the listening and add and add them link there.
00:59:22
Speaker
um But what is that one tangible tip you'd like our listeners to take?
00:59:28
Speaker
I'll start this, because this is a lot of the work that I do working with staff. They have the enormity of the challenge. We're always having scheduling our staff development in order to make next course next year better.
00:59:42
Speaker
And actually, i always want to try and leave people thinking there's something you can do tomorrow. You can make a change tomorrow. You don't have to wait until the learning outcomes have been changed and it's been validated. And you know it's like, actually, you can teach differently. don't have to wait for the module descriptor to set to let you.
00:59:58
Speaker
and So I think my advice would be something about making it explicit. So if you see opportunities to talk about skills, to talk about, as Lisa was saying, examples of people starting a business. If you get any opportunity to weave that into what you're doing, then make enterprise part of your conversation.
01:00:16
Speaker
And be reassured that you don't have to know it all. There are enterprise teams. There are colleagues in institutions who can help. So signpost, you don't have to be the expert in this to mention it in your classroom. and And if you want to look at how to build kind of that authentic practice or or to bring in how do you bring in a guest speaker? Because the last one I brought in talked about something different and I had three meetings before and they then just went off on a tangent about something else.
01:00:43
Speaker
Then look at something like ECT Toolkit, which has lots of advice on doing things like a reverse Dragon's Den where you get the businesses to pitch to your students. So yeah, there's lots of things that don't need a huge amount of setup that you can bring in that external voice. So I think, yeah, think about how you can make a change tomorrow rather than waiting until it's perfect, which I guess now I'm saying it makes me think it's the entrepreneurial way anyway, that kind of prototype, get out there, make a difference, make a change, get that feedback. So yeah, just do something different. Talk to your students and make it explicit.
01:01:19
Speaker
I like that. It's the entrepreneurial way. I feel like we all need that on a T-shirt. um yeah a mine i wanted to just jump in because mine's kind of linked to allison's and it's that idea of just just do something just do what you can we all know that universities have lots of approval processes for things like changing modules but there are things that you can do and my top tip is around assessments I think we can do a lot more in higher education to think more carefully about assessments.
01:01:46
Speaker
And this links into the things we've said about about AI as well. And my particular top tip is think about assessments that are encouraging risk and failure. So I think and ref reflective assessments can be really useful here. We have a ah ah we develop reflective assessment skills quite a lot through our degree programme.
01:02:07
Speaker
And what we try and do is allow students right from their year one to come into contact with industry experts, either as speakers or through placements or other projects. And then we have ah reflective assessments where they then think about what they learned from interacting with these industry experts or think about what is stimulated in them or what it changed about their thoughts around their own careers or their own their own freelance careers, as Alison mentioned, which is what a lot of our students will embark on.
01:02:36
Speaker
And so I think we need to think more carefully about assessments. Assessments which encourage students to regurgitate factual information are really now, they really don't have that place in higher education that that they used to.
01:02:51
Speaker
because of AI, but also because, as Alison mentioned, we have phones in our pockets. That's not a useful way to develop skills in these incredible young people. So assessments around reflect on this thing that you did that was a bit risky or where you tried putting yourself out there in a way that you previously wouldn't have been comfortable with or reflect on this time you tried this new method of marketing yourself or making a website and talk about the things that didn't work and what you learned from those.
01:03:20
Speaker
I think we shy away from encouraging students to do things until they break, not the students, they're the things, um because we're in a sector that is a bit fragile in lots of ways and and is rightly governed quite extensively.
01:03:38
Speaker
And it means that quite often we set assessments and we design modules that are very safe and that are the same as other modules. But we need to do better, I think, in encouraging risk and failure and assessments can really support that.
01:03:50
Speaker
Perfect. Thank you. Go on, Lee. No, I was just going to echo that. Alison and Michelle, I had two tips. So Alison and Michelle have covered those. But picking up on the Michelle while the one I reflect on my own practice where in assessments, and it was for an entrepreneurial module. So I said to the students, here are a list of 20 methods you can choose for your assessments.
01:04:15
Speaker
And it always used to get rated really highly, not because of anything I did, but because basically I just gave them the choice. So you have someone who's a very visual artist, so you know they could draw a picture. Or if it was someone who was more IT, they could develop an app or something. But there was a list of 20 methods. This is what you've got to do.
01:04:35
Speaker
And it's that give them the choice. We talk to them all the time about how they're adults and responsible. But then on the most important part their experience, sometimes we don't give them any choice.
01:04:47
Speaker
And I think that and that's my overriding tip, which is echoes Alison's, is just sometimes push boundaries. In the North East, we have a say in shy bands getting out. So if you don't ask, you don't get.
01:04:59
Speaker
and So I think it's that entrepreneurial mindset of just push some boundaries sometimes that actually bringing in someone to help you deliver a session, you know,
01:05:10
Speaker
it's going to add value. It's not going to get you, you know, it's not going to push you into having problems for yourself as the educator. Actually, it's going to add value to the experience.
01:05:21
Speaker
So I think just that tip sometimes just to push boundaries.
01:05:26
Speaker
Thank you, Lee. Lisa. Okay. Thank you. I think those are all really, really helpful. um But my top tip, what I'd encourage colleagues to do it is to to take some time to stop and reflect. And I really just responded there with, you know, reflecting on own practice.
01:05:47
Speaker
And it's reflect on yourself and on teaching practices and with the purpose of building self-awareness.
01:05:58
Speaker
And I think that is understanding as a as a facilitator of learning, as an educator, you know, making sure that that you're confident and comfortable with the approach that you're delivering. is I think we've talked earlier as well about, you know, being authentic and ensuring that that's brought to the table.
01:06:20
Speaker
um But I've also seen real value in the teaching and the programmes that we deliver, where we focus on some of those things um to help our participants, our learners, to better understand themselves.
01:06:38
Speaker
whether that's their own skills, their own resources, what motivates, what drives them, so they can actually you know take their ideas forward, that they do value the level of resources that they have, and they can make the steps to to put those things into action.
01:06:55
Speaker
And um you know it's in terms of that top tip is it's almost Just before you go and do it, take a moment to reflect, perhaps.
01:07:07
Speaker
But that's maybe be a reflection of me apart from anything else. And I put that in the context. You'll be pleased to hear. I'm going to bring it back to Entrecon because it's one of the competences is all about self-awareness and self-efficacy.
01:07:22
Speaker
And I think if we take some time to um to stop that, to give that consideration, you know, what on these different levels, then it can really accelerate processes going forward.
01:07:35
Speaker
Thank you, Lisa. Go on, Alison. Yeah, if I can just chip in on that, I think we have as a ah kind of an agenda as a sector, enterprise educators tried to wholesale bring in what was happening in business because that would give our students the opportunity to see and experience.
01:07:50
Speaker
And actually, we replicated a lot of sort of problems that go on in business that exclude people by going, we'll have a business meeting, we'll do this after, you know, have a breakfast group, we'll have a hackathon for 48 hours. We're excluding huge amounts of our students by thinking this is the way forward. So Lisa's entirely right. Stop and think. Don't necessarily and just think, well, that's the way it has to be done or that's the right way to do it because you're just building in those infrastructure problems into your students' experience.
01:08:21
Speaker
So, yes, a very thought-provoking comment, Lisa. Thank you. Well, thank you to my guests. I'm going to add a top tip, which is don't give up.
01:08:32
Speaker
And the reason why I don't want people to give up is, and Lee knows this because we've laughed about this before. and i know he's had similar experiences. um Setting up different alternative assessments, tabletop exercise, role play scenario.
01:08:45
Speaker
And then you come against, yes, but what's the word equivalent? You're like, it's not. It's so it it's it's a role play. Yeah, but but how many words is that essay equivalent? i and and And also, so don't give up. You're going to come up against some frustrations, and but but keep going.
01:08:59
Speaker
And also have those conversations early, you know, get quality um involved in the start, explain what you're doing and why you're doing and what it looks like. Bring your students in, as Michelle has said, you know, that that whole thing around student engagement is so important, as is inclusivity, thinking about those things that we don't always think about.
01:09:17
Speaker
And I think not giving up, having those conversations right at the start is is something that that's really, really helpful and I would encourage our listeners to do. um I would like to say a huge thank you to all our guests today, to Lee, to Alison, to Lisa and Michelle. Thank you so much. i really appreciate giving up your time freely to come and talk and share your experiences. And I know they'd be of real value to the community.
01:09:41
Speaker
Before we go, i wanted to remind our listeners that there are a wealth of resources on our own website and indeed others, and we will provide links to some, if not all, of those that have been mentioned today. And of course, there are others. um The IOEE, the Institute of Enterprise and Entrepreneurship, Svedi, Enterprise Educators UK, and some fabulous names. Andy Penaluna has already been name checked. and and and And I know there are others and you know some some big names and people that are willing to help and share across the sector as well.
01:10:12
Speaker
um Next month, we will be discussing student engagement. So really timely, considering the k nod that's been given to that in this episode, and much more can begun to be unpacked in what promises to be an equally exciting episode. Until then, listeners, do stay curious, tell your colleagues and friends, be be able to join us again, hit that share, follow and like button.
01:10:33
Speaker
Thank you.