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Episode 6: Leading through regulatory scrutiny
7 Plays11 hours ago
In this episode of Talking Transformation, Professor Sarah Williams discusses her experience at Buckinghamshire New University when under scrutiny from the Office for Students. She discusses the importance of transparent communication with regulators, describing openness and humility as essential for constructive engagement.
Reflecting on institutional culture, she advocates for sector-wide transparency, arguing that openly sharing challenges and not just successes, enables collective growth. The conversation highlights how regulatory challenges can become transformative opportunities when approached with honesty and collaborative spirit.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Talking Transformation, the podcast that looks at all things transformation and change in higher education. I'm your host for this week, Charles Knight.
00:00:26
Speaker
um This week, I'm really pleased to be joined by Professor Sarah Williams, Pro Vice-Chancellor for External Collaborations at Buckingham Shire New University. Good morning, Sarah.
00:00:40
Speaker
Good morning, Charles. How are you? Very good. it's very nice to have you with us. um On this podcast, we look at transformation from many different
Facing Initial Challenges
00:00:49
Speaker
angles. Sometimes transformation is based on external activity.
00:00:55
Speaker
It's related to change in the marketplace. It's a reaction to change in government policy. But today, Sarah, we're going to talk through a really interesting example of a situation that you found yourself in at the university. where you needed to respond to a ah Office for Students investigation of some of the activities you're undertaking and how you dealt with that as a leader. So first of all, Sarah, could I ask you to set the scene of the OFS interaction that we're talking about? Yeah, absolutely. So um I joined Buckinghamshire University in October of 2022. And as I joined, the university was just expecting an inspection visit from the Office of Students for its business management provision. um So for me, that was a bit of baptism of fire, as you might imagine, walking in as an head of the School of Business and Law, as I did then, to an inspection of provision that I was not entirely aware of, or not completely up to speed with, that it gave me about
00:02:08
Speaker
four weeks, five weeks to get up to speed with everything that was going on within business management subject area at BNU ahead of the visit. So it was a bit of a tumultuous time, I think it's fair to say.
00:02:23
Speaker
I think the before we get ah bit a bit more into what happened, just as just from a leadership perspective, and as you know, and we talked about, I've worked in a series of business schools. I think as as someone who's come into a into a leadership role,
00:02:37
Speaker
you've got that significant thing happening and you've got to be on top of that significant thing. But i think the leadership challenge as well is you've got all of the business as usual activity and all of the other things that people take as a priority.
Balancing Leadership and Urgency
00:02:52
Speaker
You know, everybody's got their priorities. um
00:02:56
Speaker
So I guess before we get into the the the actual investigation, you know, you come new into role, how do you trade off the, that this is an urgent burning platform that we need to deal with, with,
00:03:07
Speaker
These are all of the other things that still have to happen. I mean, it was it was very difficult to do because alongside that, there's the third strand of, and I don't know what business as usual looks like in this institution. You come in with a very kind of almost fixed idea of what business and as usual should look like, but it's very institutional. And although there's a lot that's similar across institutions, there's also peculiarities to to every institution you work for. So there's that aspect of not quite being sure what business as usual looks like. um
00:03:37
Speaker
Needing to ensure business as usual happens and also having to prepare yourself and a team of people for an upcoming inspection. So there were three layers really to to the the start of this this journey. and And it's very, very difficult. The business as usual.
00:03:54
Speaker
ah you know, actually underpins a lot of what was happening or what was about to happen with the inspection. So it was really important that that continued because, you know, the the the most important thing is that you don't lose sight of the student that's here now, that's having their experience right now, because that's the experience that matters.
00:04:11
Speaker
um And a lot of the time, I think in HE, we spend a lot of time talking about what we will do. Well, we will change this, we will do this. And and it's great to have all those ideas, but what are we doing right now? And and that was, that I think was our guiding principle throughout the whole process is, you know, how do we make sure that our current students are having the best experience they possibly can? And how do we do that without um putting the inspection on the back burner? You know, we we had to give it the absolute priority it deserved whilst ensuring that the current students we have with us were getting the best possible experience. So it was multifaceted. Sure. I think it's fair to say.
00:04:52
Speaker
Because this is a global podcast, I'm just going to a short bit of exposition for our global members. Absolutely.
Understanding the OFS and Its Role
00:04:57
Speaker
So um just for our global members who might be listening gates outside the United a Kingdom, in the United Kingdom system, ah we have four nations. And in the nation of England, where um Sarah and her university is located, the regulator, the OFS, is called the Office for Students.
00:05:15
Speaker
And the regulator um is responsible for making sure that a whole range of quality indicators are taken care of and also that the use of public money is is spent in an appropriate way. This is a very high level summary from anyone in England who's listening. And in this case, and i' I'll ask Sarah to make sure I've got this right, the investigation was fundamentally, they were interested to find out whether the university had breached one of the conditions of regulation, which we call the B2 regulation, which relates to
00:05:49
Speaker
um student resources and support. And also, if more broadly than that, if the university had missed opportunities to identify the academic support needs of students on this business management course. Obviously, there's more technical detail than that. But I think it's that a fair summary of what the the investigation was around. Yes, I think that's ah a really fair summary. Yeah, yeah. in In a nutshell, they were wanting to look at the resources and support available for business and management students at that moment in time.
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah. um So once the investigation starts and and and obviously as an institution, you you're thinking about your response.
Leadership Decisions and Team Dynamics
00:06:29
Speaker
If you think back to that time, what would for you as the leader, what would the kind of first leadership decisions you felt you had to make? What what were the kind of first things to to do?
00:06:39
Speaker
i mean, ah you know, the the very first thing was to think about and to look at the team that I had around me. And at that time, I really didn't have a senior management team. um i I had one person in a lead role for partnerships who was a month off leaving. um At that time, the director of education and the deputy were both on um and sick leave. So I didn't have people in place there to support me. in those day-to-day decisions and the business as usual.
00:07:14
Speaker
So the next stage was then to to look for and identify those people in the team who really could bring me up to speed, who had the historical knowledge, who knew what was happening um and to to to draw on them and pull them around me and motivate them. I have to say, um it it is a ah difficult task. It's a ah difficult thing to go through And people were feeling very bruised. So you have to tread carefully when you are trying to um use. and i i
00:07:50
Speaker
I'm careful about that word. I don't mean use in the sense of yeah manipulate, but but draw upon people's experiences and and talents. when you know that they're feeling, you know, emotionally vulnerable and and bruised. So that's ah that's a tricky task. um But that was the first thing, to identify the helpers, really, I suppose.
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah. and and And again, from ah from ah from a leecher perspective, I think what you've identified there is that one of the challenges is, especially if you come into role and there isn't a team built around you, you're A, as we've discussed, managing the business as usual,
00:08:27
Speaker
you're dealing with the investigation but also I guess you're trying to work out what's the support that you can draw in within the school and the wider institution and then within that what are the skill sets that you need from different people to fulfill the the different bits which is a really really complicated moving piece because if you've just come into post you're also trying to get a good sense of individuals and their kind of strengths and um and and the different things that they can excel at so To me, that feels like a really fast moving, complicated piece.
00:08:59
Speaker
It was. Yeah, it it most definitely was. And I was very fortunate at the time that we had a strong team across the institution supporting the activity. So Professor Paul Morgan was absolutely fantastic in providing support and connecting to people across the institution. um Our head of quality, um Marcus Wood, was fantastic. i mean, he's just he's our font of all knowledge. if I think somebody called him a walk in Google the other day and he he certainly is. So he was very, very helpful.
00:09:31
Speaker
And so it's looking beyond the sort of business and management business and law team to the broader university to say, you know, where again, where are the helpers? Where are the people who have that institutional knowledge, but also have some capacity to support in in the various different aspects of it? Because obviously it was resources and support in the broadest possible terms. um So it was was that big.
00:09:56
Speaker
you know, that, that getting to know people. And I suppose when you start a new job, it might take you several months really to get a feel for an institution and get to know where people are. I think within four or five weeks, I knew all of the key departments, all of the key people in those departments, um, and was certainly working very closely with them. So it was, it was most definitely, um, a very quick way to get to know an institution.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah. and I think, I think again, that's, that's, that's really interesting, um, because that's, uh, That's a really interesting thing about effectively establishing the networks that you need across the institution and really plugging yourself in and understanding which is which is really important. I think something i'm really interested in, you've mentioned there, which we're talking here about a very specific kind of regulatory interaction, but more generally, if you're in a process of change, change can create anxiety, defensiveness, and uncertainty in staff.
Emotional Navigation in Crisis
00:10:51
Speaker
Absolutely. And um um part of the, I guess, part of the leadership role, part of the leadership remit is the ability to pick up on that kind of emotional range, if I can call it that, yeah and and try and think about how you lead staff through it. So how do you how do you deal with the fact that this creates a highly pressured, highly charged situation for staff, you know, because they can be quite anxious about these things? How how do you lead people through that?
00:11:19
Speaker
I mean, there were a variety of emotions. There was, you know, anger, upset, hurt, professional pride that have been damaged. So you're really navigating um a range of different emotions and that that manifest themselves in different ways. And I think they the the best thing you can do is to not just say, but demonstrate, you know, we are all in this together. We are all moving in the right direction together. And I am fully here to support you. And, you know, that means getting stuck in with some of the operational tasks and supporting staff one-to-one, um, listening to staff. And we, we, we just had a ah few sessions where people were just ranting at me almost. And that's, that's fine. You know, people people need to get things off their chest and you need to listen. Um, you know, in many ways, I was a sort of interloper into this experience and, um, I felt it was very important that I listened to the experiences that they'd gone through in the last couple of years. They'd gone through enormous change and and felt that they'd not really had the time or the speed to get to grips with the change that they'd gone through.
00:12:37
Speaker
um And listening to those perspectives and and thinking, okay, well, how do we make sure that doesn't happen again? How do we put in place the the structures that we need to support ourselves through change. um You can't ever say to somebody, well, there won't be any more change now that I'm here because of course there will. There's always going to be change. But I think listening is the is the first thing.
00:12:59
Speaker
Being present and being available is is the second thing. And um providing as much practical support as you possibly can is the third thing.
00:13:10
Speaker
Just being understanding. you You can't take people's emotions away. People are going to feel what they feel. and you've just got to be aware of what they're feeling and considerate of that.
00:13:22
Speaker
I think, yeah, again, I think it's really interesting because one of my observations, having worked with leaders across a range of higher education institutions, it's interesting how some leaders are technically very good. They've got the kind of knowledge base and they're really in the sector, but they're many of them are ultimately puzzled by the fact that colleagues get quite worked up or upset about things. They say, well, it's just, you know, this is just the nature of it. And I always find it really interesting when I talk to people like you who kind of understand the nuance of, and I thought really interesting what you said, you can't take staff emotions away.
00:13:55
Speaker
um i think, i i think it is really a big part of the leadership role to, to kind of understand where the staff are at any, any given time in this point. um A side question you've made me think about,
00:14:08
Speaker
um is of course then you've got to think about, haven't you, the kind of wider communication you have with staff as you go through these processes. Because some of it is going to be face to face and kind of one on one. But then I guess you've got to think really carefully about the appropriate level of communication across the school when you're going through the process.
00:14:27
Speaker
Yeah, you absolutely do, because there's certain things that can't be communicated during the process. And there are certain things that we simply didn't know ourselves. You know, there was there was a loose agenda for for the inspection. was by no means certain what questions they would ask, what things they would want to look at. And the OFS were very clear. Everything is on the table.
00:14:55
Speaker
we We can go in and look at anything we want to. So in that sense, it's difficult to prepare people. apart from saying they can look at anything and everything be prepared but what does that mean specifically is quite a difficult thing so there were some things we simply couldn't communicate because we didn't know there are other things we couldn't communicate because it wasn't appropriate um and and then there were other things where you didn't want to be communicating with stakeholders who didn't need to know because You don't want to to create anxiety, more anxiety beyond the the affected group than you have to. And also you're you're being mindful of the the affected group of staff and and their anxiety and not wanting to to add to it by including people who who might then and talk about the situation and make things worse.
00:15:49
Speaker
yeah so So, yeah, there were layers to to the communication and it was so fast moving. I'm not even sure I could look back now and tell you that there was a communication strategy. It was very much in the moment. But, yeah, you do have to be mindful, I think, of all of those different aspects.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah. and And just thinking about this external relationship with the Office for Students as a regulator, and again, for any global members listening, they'll think about this in terms of their relationship with their regulators. or ministry, depending on where they are in the world.
00:16:23
Speaker
and How do you have, you know, how do you have a constructive engagement with, in your case, with the Office
Transparency and Transformation
00:16:29
Speaker
for Students? What does that what does that look like? To me, it's it's fundamentally, and um and to be in you, I mean, it's not just a me thing. it's I would say it's the whole leadership team here, it's about transparency.
00:16:41
Speaker
um You know, it's it's it's about being completely open and saying, look, this is who we are and this is what we do and this is how we do it. um and just being totally open with those conversations. um Nobody is perfect and and we're not perfect. We are striving to be, but I think, you know, any organization that tells itself that it's a perfect organization is kidding itself. um And so I think that that the most straightforward thing in the world is be transparent, be open, be open to their feedback, be open to their comments um and learn through it. You know, be transparent.
00:17:18
Speaker
humble enough to to accept um comment and to learn and grow from the comments that you get back it's the most constructive way to have have a relationship um i just don't think there's any merit in trying to put your best foot forward or being selective with the information you present ultimately you know you you need to get the feedback that helps you to improve and you only get that through transparency in my view and and i guess as well we that The other part of this we've talked a little bit about is we talked about the school, but obviously you've got, as all institutions do, you've got governance um structures. So I guess there was potentially some engagement with your kind of internal government structures, whether it's spent the exec team, board of governors and so on, because obviously these stakeholder groups are really interested, obviously, in what's going on.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. i mean, they did that you know, they the exec group were very heavily involved. um mean that That was fantastic. and And they in turn were keeping council involved. But we we had gold group, silver group, as you can imagine. And, you know, these groups of people were very involved. um we We were getting weekly meetings, regular updates, any support that was asked for was provided. So they were very engaged in that process. And I think that helped.
00:18:40
Speaker
um that helped not just from a practical standpoint, but I think it helped from a morale standpoint too, because it's, as I said, it's a ah complicated and big thing to go through for any institution, for any team of people. And to know that you're fully supported and everybody is behind you and and helping you makes a huge difference. So so their involvement was critical.
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah. um The other thing that the occurred to me in thinking about this and and obviously doing some research in advance, you know, at some point this this stops being partly about an investigation and a dialogue with the Office for Students, but also ah a broader conversation for you as a leadership team about quality and standards and that kind of, you know, how what's the opportunity to improve? So how did this kind of guide
00:19:41
Speaker
you know kind of guide where you went as a school and institution? oh ah it was It was most definitely a catalyst for transformation. i mean There's no doubt about it. It was ah I think instrumental really in the focus that we placed on teaching and learning quality and most importantly consistency of of teaching and learning quality. i mean So many initiatives came out of of of that and And it was fantastic in sort of galvanizing people behind what we were trying to do. So, you know, we developed a set of module leader guidelines, course leader to guidelines, checklists, so that we could ensure that the virtual learning environment, the VLE that we were using was consistent. The pages were consistent. The information was consistently presented to make navigation as easy as possible for students. It prompted all kinds of conversations, around pedagogy and different um learning types different learning styles. It also spawned um some projects, some teaching and learning research projects. um One in particular that that has been now ongoing for three years is one that my colleague, Susanne Doria, does with Level 4 students in their first module of studies. And she's really investigating the use of of live feedback. So they're they're assessed live, and they're given their feedback in the moment. And she's investigating longitudinally now, the impact that has on their progression, and and also on their achievement over time, when the third year of that study. So, you know, it's been fantastic, I think, for um not just galvanizing people around what excellence in teaching and learning might look like, but also how they themselves can contribute to the body of knowledge around teaching and learning. So it's been transformative. I mean, it it genuinely has.
00:21:41
Speaker
yeah that That project sounds like something I'm going to have to have on the podcast at some point. It sounds like a great, definitely something our listeners would be interested in. Just just talk turning back to you again on ah on a personal level, you obviously had a bit of a baptism of fire in terms of when you joined the institution. And obviously, you're in the business school, now you've moved to a central yeah ah PVC role. So, you know, you've been on your own journey.
00:22:06
Speaker
And I guess one of the things i'm always interested in, you effectively become the focus point for this really pressured, difficult period.
Personal Leadership Journey
00:22:14
Speaker
um How do you look after yourself as as a leader during this period? Because everybody's looking to you for answers and that, you know, direction. And obviously you've got the support, but it's still a big focus on you. So how do you look after yourself in this, this kind of period? gosh, that's such a good question. um I'm not really sure that I did in all honesty. It's all a bit of a blur, but I mean, I will say I have got um excellent friends. um And I think I drew on the support of two people in particular. One very good friend who's been my friend for
00:22:48
Speaker
decades and she really is my my sister to all all intents and purposes and and she was great at taking my mind off higher education and on to other things and reminding me that there is more to life than higher education um and then I had another incredibly good friend who has been in higher education for years who understood the context of what I was going through So I was able to kind of rant about the context to to one person and and have them just quietly listen and calm me down. and then And then to another person, you know, I had somebody there who didn't understand a thing and was just happy to to see me and and take me away from from everything. So I think two very good friends saw me through it and my boys. I have two fantastic boys who, again, no understanding or care for the context that I work in. um And they surrounded me with silliness. And I think that's ah that's That's something that you need in your knife is silliness. set Silliness is um an underrated trait, actually. I just wanted to just want finish with something slightly broader I've been thinking about all the way through this. um
00:23:58
Speaker
you the The dialogue we've had here has been really transparent. And, you know, the listeners will take a lot from it. But it's a dialogue about something that actually within the sector, lots of people say, well, we don't want to we don't want to talk about And one of the impressions, and I've i've interacted with your Vice-Chancellor, Professor Damien Page a few times, yeah and I think there's something really interesting to me as an outsider about your institution.
00:24:25
Speaker
All of my interactions with the institution and and individuals there is that you're really genuinely interested as an institution and the leadership team in honest, transparent dialogue, and you'd rather have a transparent conversation about difficult things than for progress rather than what I see at some institutions, which is we're not going to talk about this under any circumstances. it happen Yeah.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yes. I think it's really interesting. i I think we are. i think there's two motivating factors here. Firstly, it's the student. And, you know, we we genuinely want to do the best that we possibly can for the students. And so does everybody else in the sector. That's why we're all in it. We're not special in that regard. But, you know, our belief is that you do that by having honest conversations and open conversations so that we can identify our own weak spots, address them and grow. But also as a sector, we don't do ourselves any favors by hiding things away and pretending things aren't happening. And I think that there's ah there is a, and league tables, let's face it, have contributed to this, but there is a real focus on, well, you know, we know we don't air our dirty laundry in public and, you know, we've got to be the best at this and the best at that and the best at the other. um And that's great. And I'm really happy for people that they share their successes, but we also need to share the things we're not so good at. We also need to share the lessons that we're learning because as a sector, we don't move forward if we don't. And, you know, we should be under no illusions here. We are not the only institution that has challenges. Every institution has challenges. And if we were all a little bit more prepared to talk about them and share them, then we might actually all learn something. And as a sector, we might grow and and and collectively address some of the major challenges that affect us and will continue to affect us for the next five years. So I think um that there's opportunity in challenge always. and And the opportunity comes when you're open and transparent enough to talk about it.
00:26:27
Speaker
Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. I mean, I could talk for hours to you because I just think it's just such a fast, A, the the way you handled the investigation is so interesting, but I just think that as where we've ended up this conversation about the transparency and the sharing, which is what A, the podcast is all about, but just I completely agree. I think i think the sector, success is really great to share, but as you've said,
00:26:52
Speaker
We also need to come together and say, you know, this is this is something that happened to us challenging. This is where you can learn from what we did. so um So thank you again, Sarah, for joining us. um And at the time we record this in the United Kingdom, we're almost into the Christmas break. So I'm going to say have a have a great holiday break when it comes, Sarah. You too. And thank you very much for inviting me on.
00:27:18
Speaker
Thank you.