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132: Joy and Grief Coexist Together with Jen Myers Farmer
241 Plays1 year ago
If you know Jill Devine from her radio days, then you are bound to know Jen Myers Farmer. Jen and Jill worked closely together for almost ten years at the same radio station.
In 2016, Jen was diagnosed with breast cancer and her difficult cancer journey continues to this day. Jill invited Jen to come on the podcast to talk about the journey she has been on, along with her perspective on everyday life. The most important part of the conversation (in Jill’s opinion) was the reinforcement that ups and downs in relationships are normal and how powerful saying “I love you” can be.
You can read more about Jen’s story and make a contribution by clicking this link. Every dollar raised will support the Farmer family today and tomorrow. To offer them the blessing of one less thing to worry about as they navigate this next chapter. To pursue any future medical treatment available. To be together. To have fun. To, in the face of uncertainty, keep their resolve high and keep their lives moving ever forward.
Two Kids and A Career Website: https://www.jilldevine.com/
Two Kids and A Career Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilldevine/?hl=en
Two Kids and A Career Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JillDevineMedia/
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Transcript
Morning Wake-Up and Parenting Reflections
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Sometimes seizing the day is you wake up early like I did this morning and my daughter came down early and she said she had a nightmare. We just sat and like snuggled on the couch and watched the sunrise. And that to me might be my favorite part of the day. But when, but before cancer, that's what I want to know. My brain might've been thinking of,
00:00:28
Speaker
all the other things I had to do. And I wasn't present in that moment.
Introduction to 'Two Kids and a Career'
00:00:33
Speaker
Hi there and welcome to Two Kids in a Career. I'm Jill Devine. As an entrepreneur, wife, and mama, the daily grind of trying to build a business while taking care of kids and trying to maintain a healthy connection with my hubby, it's a lot. With this podcast, you're going to hear candid conversations with other moms, parenting experts who can share their knowledge and insight, or you'll just hear me rambling to get it all out. There's going to be tears, there's going to be laughter, but most importantly, there will be support.
00:01:01
Speaker
Take a listen and connect with me so we can grow and learn from one another. This is Two Kids and a Career.
Reconnecting Old Radio Friends
00:01:08
Speaker
I don't even really know how to start. I'm being completely honest. Before- How do you normally start? Well, I would say welcome to this week's conversation. I can't wait to introduce you to my guest, but it just feels like you deserve more than that, Jen Myers. Stop. We had such- Farmer, now Jen Farmer. Oh, Jen Farmer slash Myers. Just like, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:01:34
Speaker
We had just so much conversation before we recorded that wouldn't make any sense to the listeners. Or maybe it would. Actually, you might be right. Those of you who do know our story, we both were in radio together.
00:01:55
Speaker
It's crazy, like everything that's transpired. I do know those that are listening that know us from our radio days are probably like, we do want the tea, but we're not here to talk about that. I will
Balancing Radio Career and Parenthood
00:02:09
Speaker
say though, it's so good to feel how I'm feeling with you right now. And I'm gonna try to explain it like,
00:02:18
Speaker
With that, with the radio situation, let me back up with our relationship. So we met in, when did I start there? 2010, I think it was 2010. So we've known each other for 14 years now.
00:02:38
Speaker
We kind of knew each other before I started just because everyone in radio kind of knows each other. Yeah. And Jen and I are very similar. And so we both are go getters and competitive. And I think we both loved each other. Yes. But we both like.
00:02:59
Speaker
wanted things. I wouldn't even say it was a love-hate relationship because there was no hate ever. I think we were both type A personalities. I think you were more organized than I was. I was like a disorganized type A. Okay, maybe.
00:03:16
Speaker
But we were tasked with a lot of the same things. Yes, so we would like tag team on stuff. Yes. And if we missed a tag, that's where we would be like, what are you doing? And the thing with the radio that's so weird is that you see all you listen to the radio and you know all these people and
00:03:34
Speaker
You think they all work together, but we kind of work different hours and sort of see each other in passing. We're close, but we're not necessarily working side by side every day. Right. And so then, yeah, when you would be on the morning show and if there were things that I would need to do in the afternoon, but you were done.
Breast Cancer Diagnosis and Family Impact
00:03:57
Speaker
Right.
00:03:58
Speaker
And then I had little by like babies at the time. And so I was doing the morning show, Jill would be working on other stuff before she got on the air. Then I would get off the air, try and get all my stuff done, race home, get the kids, do all that stuff and kind of like check out from work. And then it's just. I'm trying to check into work. Right. But it was never, I mean,
00:04:25
Speaker
I think maybe we had maybe one or two situations, other than that. Which, who doesn't it work? Right. And that's what it was, too, when you think about it. I'm like, okay, this is normal. Right. This is completely normal, but. Our radio's not normal. No, it's not normal at all. And we're both people pleasers, so. Yes. So anyway, I feel
00:04:48
Speaker
so good that I'm just here with you in this conversation. Like I miss having these like daily conversations with you. And now it sucks too because, and now I'm with a, I have a six and a four year old and you're a season ahead of me. And I just wish we could have shared more of that together, which we can still now. But when you saw each other every day, it was different. Um, but it's just good to have that behind me and, uh,
00:05:18
Speaker
those that are listening that know us know like Courtney is in our lives. There's no issue. So that's the tea we'll give you. There's no issue between any of us. We are all good. But I wanted you to come on because I wanted to talk to you about your perspective. I mean, first of all, would you have ever thought that
00:05:46
Speaker
I am working for a church and that you are not working in radio for
00:05:54
Speaker
health reasons, health reasons. And I don't like those health reasons, but I wanted to talk perspective. Yeah. So we're going to back it up to, well, first of all, how old are the kids now? 13 and 10. It's crazy. Oh my gosh. So when I started how, so when you started Finn, my oldest was one. Oh yeah. Okay. Cause I was born in 2009.
00:06:23
Speaker
And then I was there. Yeah. For Nora. Uh-huh. Yeah. I remember that baby announcement. I loved that baby announcement with Nora. Did it say hello or hi? Hi. Hi. I'm Nora. Okay. So 13 and 10 in 2016. That's when I had Lou and in 2016.
00:06:43
Speaker
you got your first cancer diagnosis. Yeah. Walk me through that a little bit. Right. Because I mean, it was like, it went from didn't you, like you thought it was minor. Yeah. To not. Yeah. So it happened.
00:07:05
Speaker
May 12th, 2016. And I remember because it was Nora's half birthday. We joke around at our house that as a parent, be careful with starting a new tradition. Because if you do something and you think it's cute one time, you're going to have to do it for the rest of your life. So I cursed my son with a June birthday, which many couldn't have
00:07:31
Speaker
Oh, the school party. The school party. The school birthday party. But the school made up for it and they did the half birthday party for all the summer kids. So still feeling guilty. The first year he was in school, I made him a half birthday cake. I baked a round little cake, cut it in half, frosted it and made it a two layer cake. He thought it was the coolest thing. Well, so then I have to do it like until the end of time.
00:08:00
Speaker
So May 12, 2016, I'm baking this half birthday cake for Nora. We're mixing it together. She's all excited. We put it in the oven. She goes outside to play. And I get the phone call that I have breast cancer. I had found a lump a few weeks before, went in, had a mammogram. They did a biopsy.
00:08:29
Speaker
They came back with the results and at first they thought it was stage one, grade three. So there are four stages of cancer, three grades of cancer, grade three being the most aggressive. I was 41 years old, no family history of breast cancer, no family history really of cancer. Everything changed. And then all of a sudden the little half birthday cake like wasn't so silly. You,
00:08:59
Speaker
ended up doing the double mastectomy because, well, wait, we didn't cover. You went in. Was the double mastectomy when you found out you had stage four or no? I found out I had stage three during the surgery, but I did the double mastectomy because I was like, I'm 41. I'm not messing around with this.
00:09:23
Speaker
like take everything. Yeah, just do it, take it all. So I came out of the surgery and they realized that it was stage three and it spread to my lymph nodes and my skin. Okay. Which is rare. So you do all the things. Yeah.
00:09:39
Speaker
Do they give you a clean bill of health? I can't remember. Well, sort of. Like at the time I thought I went through chemo, then in the middle of the summer, there apparently weren't clean margins in the skin, which is a tough thing to find.
00:09:59
Speaker
Right along the incision line, I had a couple of spots pop up. So then I did chemo and radiation at the same time, finished everything up by like December of 2016, rang the bell, had a CT scan and the CT scan looked clear, but they don't say you're cancer free. They say no evidence of disease or any D. Okay. So no evidence of disease that they can see.
Life After Treatment and Uncertainty
00:10:28
Speaker
And then you're kind of without a net. It's like, okay, like we're going to put you on this medicine. But for so long, I've been showing up to all these appointments and showing up like felt good. Yeah. It's like, okay, I'm actively doing something to fight this cancer. Yeah.
00:10:49
Speaker
And then when you're finished with all your treatments, it's like, okay, go back to your normal life or your new normal as everybody calls it. So that lasted, let's see for a year and a half. Yeah. Cause I was going to say 2018 I get pregnant again. I know. I'm sorry. No.
00:11:11
Speaker
I made your maternity leaves really difficult. I was like, Oh no, you can't get pregnant anymore. Jill. No, I know we could laugh about it, but 2018. Yeah. I got pregnant and then it's back. Yeah. So the cancer metastasized to my lungs. They found spots in my lungs.
00:11:36
Speaker
They found a couple spots and I'm laughing because now I do crazy stuff. My doctor says she's going to wrap me in bubble wrap before every CT scan because I kind of go off the deep end. They see these spots in May of 2018 and they're like, it could be nothing, but you're going to come back for a CT scan in three months.
00:11:56
Speaker
to see. So in the back of my ad, I'm like, it's nothing, it's nothing, it's nothing. But I've never been to Italy before. And that's on my list. So I booked a trip to Italy in like 60 days. I go in for the scan and the results. The spots have grown. So they assume that it's the breast cancer.
00:12:19
Speaker
And I'm like, they tell me I have to start treatment. And I said, well, that's funny. Cause I, um, I'm supposed to be in Italy at that point. And they said, Oh, you're going to Italy. Well, just start your treatment when you get back. So I did. And then for the next couple of years, I had like little spot treatments where they treat little individual spots on my lungs that would pop up.
00:12:48
Speaker
That's where I am kind of lost. So my radio career ended in December of 2019. And I feel like not until the
Cancer Recurrence and Coping Strategies
00:13:03
Speaker
last year or so, I didn't really know what was happening. And that's because of hurt and it wasn't anything that Jen did, just so the listener know, this is just,
00:13:16
Speaker
I needed a break. I needed a break from all kinds of stuff. And if there's one thing that I can say is take your break if you need to, but don't let it go too long. I let it go too long, but you're here. That's, that's what's, that's what matters. But I lost track of what happened from 2019 to present day a little bit. Yeah.
00:13:45
Speaker
Well, and I'm trying to remember all of it too. Cause it all kind of blurs together. Um, so going into January, 2020, obviously we know what happened in March of 2020. So was there anything in between those months that really developed or so March of 2020?
00:14:07
Speaker
Yeah, I still had spots on my lungs. So that was the thing. I was like, you see people ring bells and I've gotten to ring a lot of bells. And a lot of people are like, Oh, good, you're done. We're done. We don't have to worry about her anymore. But sometimes they would treat the spots that were large enough to treat. And then they would just watch the other ones that were stable and too small to treat.
00:14:36
Speaker
So in March of 2020, I talked with my doctor with COVID and they're like, this is in your lungs. We don't know, they still didn't know so much. So I just had to be really, really careful.
00:14:56
Speaker
And everything was good for a while. The issue with stage four cancer is that most drugs, after a while the cancer cells outsmart the drugs and figure out a way around them.
00:15:11
Speaker
So since 2017, when I had no evidence of disease, each drug has lasted about an average of a year. They call it time to progression or TTP. And then after a while, the drug just stops working. And you switch to a new drug. And you switch to a new drug. And you hope that there are still tools in the toolbox left.
00:15:38
Speaker
So it was around this time last year that my latest medicine stopped working. I was I thought I kept telling myself it was allergies because I had this really bad cough.
00:15:52
Speaker
But then we did a scan and we realized it wasn't the tumors that gotten worse. I tried to get into a clinical trial, so I did a lung biopsy, but they didn't get enough tissue. So then I switched to a new drug that didn't really work for a couple months. It got worse. I went in one day and my doctor, who is like so amazing and on top of everything, did a scan sooner than she normally would.
00:16:22
Speaker
And she, I met with her on a Thursday and she's like, this drug is not working. You're starting chemo tomorrow. And I was like, can't ask for more than that. That's less than a 24 hour turnaround.
00:16:38
Speaker
Let's do it. I started chemo in May of last year. I was on that chemo until December. This is like way too much medical information for people. No, we need to know this. People are bored. Nope. You want to spill some tea? And gossip is way more interesting than cancer. Medical charts. So it stopped working. Yeah, it stopped working towards the end of the year and
00:17:06
Speaker
I was switching to a new medicine, going through all these tests. And then I woke up, should've started at the beginning talking about this, woke up one morning and didn't have a voice. And so I went to the emergency room because they told me to, I was like, that's weird. It's just laryngitis December. And, um, one of, so my cancer has spread.
00:17:31
Speaker
from my lungs, also in my lymph nodes. And one of the lymph nodes that's affected is pressing up against the nerve to the vocal cords. And so my vocal cords are partially paralyzed. So it's like the irony of it all?
00:17:54
Speaker
And so like, I should also say like in this time, I decided like May of last year is when I left my job to focus on my health. Can you imagine if I had been working and woke up one day and had no voice when my job is to be on the radio talking all day. So I've started a new drug and
00:18:20
Speaker
Actually the drug that I'm on right now is the drug that I was, that was in the clinical trial last year that I was trying to get into. Um, it was given breakthrough status by the FDA. And as I was going through all these baseline tests to make sure everything looked okay before I started the drug, they add me to, to a test, something looked a little suspicious.
Cancer's Spread and Fighting Spirit
00:18:47
Speaker
We did another test and I found out that you take your time. We found out that the cancer had spread to my brain, but all of these tumors are still breast cancer. So wow.
00:19:11
Speaker
They know that because for a long time they were treating the lungs like it was breast cancer. And then I finally had a spot that was close to the side of my rib cage that they could biopsy.
00:19:27
Speaker
And so they did a few years ago and ran tests on it. They found that it was breast cancer. My breast cancer is estrogen and progesterone positive. And it's also, they found that it had changed a little bit, so it has a little HER2 expression in it.
00:19:47
Speaker
But they were like, this is what we assumed is that this is breast cancer. It's not lung cancer. It's breast cancer that's in the lungs. And breast cancer that's in the lymph nodes. And now breast cancer that's in the brain.
00:20:05
Speaker
That's so weird. When you have tumor cells, they circulate in your blood and so they can, that's how cancer spreads and becomes like a greater stage if it spreads to another part of your body.
00:20:20
Speaker
Okay. So we have talked about the science. We've talked about the medical stuff because I know you're competitive because it takes one to know what, is that what's driving you? I mean, I feel defeated every time I see an update. So for me, it's easy because I know you and I'm like, she's just competitive. She's like,
00:20:43
Speaker
Nope. Nope. We're doing this. I remember very early on doing what you're not supposed to do. And that's Google anything about your cancer. Yeah. It's the number one thing I say to people stay off the internet. I don't care what time you wake up in the middle of the night. Don't Google it. But I did. I Googled when I first found out I was stage three survival rates.
00:21:08
Speaker
And I don't remember what the five year survival rate was at the time, but it wasn't great. If it was say 25%, I was like, well, somebody has to be in that 25%. Why can't it be me? So I would say it's part competitive, but 110% of my kids. Can I ask about physical, like, yeah, pain. Are you in pain? No.
00:21:38
Speaker
Okay. No, I mean, right now it's a little more difficult to breathe. I mean, I can still like go on walks and stuff. I use an inhaler, but like I'm not in pain. Okay. The radiation. So I just finished whole brain radiation and that hurt radiation. You don't normally feel like over time you just get progressively more tired.
00:22:09
Speaker
at least for breast cancer. But this whole brain radiation was something else. I know I read your description of it and I thought, I know how debilitating it can be to have a migraine. Oh my gosh. And didn't you describe it like 5000 times worse? I just feel for people who have migraines and concussions and I came on one day
00:22:33
Speaker
And I told the kids, I was like, you're on your own. When dad gets home, he'll feed you. There's food in the fridge. If you need something beforehand, I'm going upstairs. I went upstairs in the bedroom, turned off all the lights and just sat and like could not move my head. And I thought to myself, there are people that deal with this all the time. Like I don't even know. And then the chemo that does,
00:23:03
Speaker
Does that make you ill? I mean, I've heard different things for different people. It depends on which chemo. The last chemo I was on, I was fine. I wasn't really sick. This one, I have once every three weeks, so it's a lot stronger. So the first few days I'm on steroids,
00:23:24
Speaker
which means that I'm up at like one o'clock in the morning and I've done 17 loads of laundry before my whole family gets up. I'm super productive. Jelle, your type A personality. I'm not trying to push steroids on you, but just imagine what I could get done. Oh my gosh. Like Wonder Woman. So, um, I'm sick for like the first week, the second week, so, so, and then the third week I feel like a normal human being.
00:23:53
Speaker
and like get excited that I can clean my toilet and clean parts of my house because I have the energy to. Yeah. Okay. That's a perspective that. Right. One day I was like cleaning the bathroom and I was so excited. Okay. The kids, you said it's the kids. Yeah. God, I claw for like every second that I have with them.
00:24:20
Speaker
We talked before this episode via text. I will say
00:24:28
Speaker
Thank gosh, you're pushy because Jen said, we got to do this in person. If we're going to talk about death or dying, I'm like, ah, no, I just want to talk about perspective. And then I said, no, I want to respect your health. I don't want you to be exposed to germs or anything. And I'm just so glad we're doing this in person. So thank you for, for pushing like, but when we talked about that,
00:24:54
Speaker
You said that you don't have, well, the new normal, the normal conversations in your household with your kids. And I mean, I want to respect you and your family. I want you to be comfortable with what you are comfortable with.
00:25:13
Speaker
I just keep thinking about that family that needs to know how you have these conversations. So one thing that I thought about, and then I had this conversation with a couple coworkers not too long ago is, you know, with faith and stuff, how it can be very easy to question our faith and have these faith crisis and be like, what the hell God, like this is what,
00:25:43
Speaker
Have you gone there? Have you had the kids go there? I mean, I know that you are a faithful person. That's where I'm, I just, those conversations. Yeah. So many different conversations.
Communicating Cancer to Children
00:26:00
Speaker
We've been dealing with us for almost seven years. So when my kids, when we first started talking, they were three and a half and six, another 13 and 10.
00:26:13
Speaker
So the conversations have changed. I mean, I remember talking to my son when I was first diagnosed. I think we were talking about one of the drugs and he said, well, what if it doesn't work? Because he worries like I do. He's like my clone.
00:26:32
Speaker
And I said, well, if it doesn't work, then we'll switch to another drug. And he's like, well, what if that doesn't work? We'll switch to another drug. Well, what if that doesn't work? And I was like, you know what?
00:26:44
Speaker
We're going to hope that this drug works because that's what a six year old needs to hear. Right. We recently had to tell them about the cancer spreading to my brain that I think was tough for them to hear, but
00:27:05
Speaker
I said, you know, we're all full. They talked about how they think we caught this early. We're going to do radiation. The chemo that I'm on is a chemo that breaks the blood brain barrier. And they've seen women with breast cancer that spread to the brain. They've seen the tumors shrink. So we're just hoping that these drugs do what they're supposed to do. I don't try and like,
00:27:33
Speaker
force these conversations with the kids. Like if they want to talk about it, they can talk about it. And if they're worried, we kind of bring it up and talk through things. But I think they are aware of what's going on. Yeah, we say I love you all the time and we have these like silly competitions of like escalating love.
00:27:59
Speaker
Like, I love you. Well, I love you more. I love you times all the infinities and all the universes and all that. And I'm like, oh, you won this time. But yeah, we like don't. I don't take those things for granted.
00:28:14
Speaker
And I feel like I can't tell my kids enough every day how much I love them. And I don't know if it's because of my cancer or because that's the way we talk in our house now, but it comes back to me. So it's like a gift. What about you though? Who are you talking to?
00:28:40
Speaker
I mean, I talked to my husband and my friends and I've talked to my pastor. I see a therapist. I'm lucky that I go to Simon and they offer free counseling. Oh, okay. For all their patients, which is great.
00:28:57
Speaker
but I see a therapist, you know, talk about all the things that I can and can't control. And my pastor said something really great recently. We think of like life or death, but really like I'm sorry to break it to everybody. It's not just me. You are all going to die someday. So it's life and death.
00:29:27
Speaker
We're all living at this. I mean, no one's promised tomorrow. And I've seen a lot of people who didn't have cancer. I mean, look at COVID. We saw so many people, healthy people who didn't think they were going to die. I know people who have been in awful accidents or had like sudden health emergencies who've died. So I feel like I just have the awareness
00:29:58
Speaker
or like the knowledge that I'm like walking through life realizing that every day is a gift.
Finding Clarity and Presence
00:30:08
Speaker
Like I cry when the sun rises or I cry when I see a beautiful sunset because it's like, God, I'm still here. But that's what sucks because
00:30:29
Speaker
I feel like it always takes something awful for people to do that. And like, I can talk to you and I can talk to other people and I can hear that all day long. And part of it probably is like what I see, you know, like when you joke around like on Instagram, like they have it all together. But like,
00:30:55
Speaker
I guess it's like, Oh, if I start to take a page from your book that I never get mad at my kids, but you still get mad at your kids. Oh yeah. And so I think that that's where it gets confusing to me. And I don't even really know how to put it into words, but it's just, I know I'm not seizing the day. I know, but maybe I am. I don't seize the day every day. There are days when I'm too tired, but sometimes seizing the day doesn't mean like,
00:31:26
Speaker
You know, our type A personalities. Jumping out of bed and doing a million things with your kids and racing to the zoo and riding a Ferris wheel. Yeah. Sometimes seizing the day is you wake up early like I did this morning. And my daughter came down early and she said she had a nightmare. We just sat and like snuggled on the couch and watched the sunrise. She's like, when is the sun coming up?
00:31:55
Speaker
Oh, here it comes. We just sat there and like snuggled together. And that to me is like, might be my favorite part of the day. But when, but before cancer, that's what I want to know. My brain might've been thinking of all the other things I had to do. And I wasn't present in that moment.
00:32:22
Speaker
It's about being present. And also, yeah, there are times when I yell at my kids. And I remember one not too long ago, where I cherish my 10 minute drive to school with my son. My husband's always like, I can take him. I'm like, no.
00:32:45
Speaker
That's the 10 minutes I get in the car with him every day. And sometimes it's like not even a big conversation, but it's everything to me, especially since I worked.
00:32:58
Speaker
mornings in radio for years and never, I was out the door before my kids were awake. And one day I had lost it the night before and yelled and went upstairs. And the next morning I drove him to school and I said, I just want to tell you how sorry I am about yesterday. And he's like, it's fine. I said, no, it's not fine.
00:33:26
Speaker
Except my apology. I'm sorry. I said sometimes I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tired.
00:33:39
Speaker
And I took it out on you and your sister and that's not fair. And so we talk about how sometimes, you know, sometimes you're angry about something and you take it out on the people you love. Kids do that a lot because they feel safe. Right. I've learned. Yes. Learning. And I talk about that with my kids too. Like I know you're upset because you lost your game.
00:34:10
Speaker
Should you really be taking it out on your sister, your dad, me? So we have those conversations too. Like where's, where's the hurt really coming from? I mean, I've kind of joked that like another irony of me losing my voice is that when I try to yell a little bit louder, my voice goes out completely.
00:34:46
Speaker
So I had to sit down with my kids early on and I was like just you know this is my normal talking voice and my yelling voice sounds like this I cannot yell so you will not be able to differentiate between regular mom and angry mom
00:35:08
Speaker
So I'm going to need you to do things when I ask you to do them. Yes. It was just funny because I was like, man, this is like a test of my patience because, yeah, I'm going to have to like stop. And if I try to yell, nothing comes out. They're scheming.
00:35:31
Speaker
who's gonna get her to yell? Because then I know, I know. So I was like, Oh, this is an interesting little exercise. But also I will say I don't yell. I don't get upset about stuff that I used to get upset about. Give me an example. Oh, gosh, I'm trying to think. Maybe not, like upset about stuff. But when I was diagnosed with cancer,
00:35:59
Speaker
I feel like there's so much static in our lives. You know, there are so many distractions and with social media, you see other people. And if you're like constantly comparing yourself to people on social media or at work or in your neighborhood or at your church or people's Christmas cards, it's like,
00:36:25
Speaker
All that static went away and everything in my life that it was important was so crystal clear. Like at the end of the day, it's your friends and your family and the people you love. And that's it. I gotta say that when you said love, you say it and you mean it. And I remember
00:36:54
Speaker
recently when we were texting and you said, I love you. It's like, and I love you. And I didn't realize how important that was until you talked about it. And when we worked together before I was diagnosed with cancer, I probably never said it to anyone, coworkers, friends, but gosh, as soon as I was diagnosed, everybody, everybody,
00:37:26
Speaker
Again, you have to understand, too, with Jen and me, I think after everything, I just, that happened at the radio station, I never wanted anything to feel like a hidden agenda. You know, when you're very careful about your text or whatever, and so you carry this, and I'm speaking for me, I carry this for so long until we, you know, had to sit down and to talk about our feelings and our friendship, and then even now, like,
00:37:56
Speaker
Speaking of bathroom cleaning, this is no joke. This is not a joke at all. I was cleaning the bathroom and I was just thinking of you. Maybe you were cleaning the bathroom at the same time. And I was thinking of you. I stopped what I was doing. I sent you a text and said, I'd like to have you on the podcast. Would you be willing? And
00:38:20
Speaker
I got real scared for some reason. I set it down because I thought, okay, maybe she's going to think, and this is me and my overthinking talking about death and all that. And that's not what it was. I was like, she's, I need to share her story. She needs part of it's for me, selfishly. And another part is I want your story to be told and I want it out there.
00:38:44
Speaker
And you responded so quickly. And then when you said, yes, I just started crying and I was like, why are you crying Jill? And I think it was just because of just everything, like just everything, everything. So yes, this podcast episode,
00:39:08
Speaker
is more personal and won't mean as much to somebody else, of course. But it's also, I feel like a power of, I want to say forgiveness. Cause it's not that it's a power of, we get like a do over. Yeah. That's a crummy thing about people, like leaving your life suddenly, which like happened with us. Yeah.
00:39:37
Speaker
It's a weird situation when someone does not get to leave their job voluntarily. And then you're left there. And it's weird because like, as much as our relationship revolved around work, it really didn't. So that's the thing. Like it was different. Cause then you realize that you miss that person. Yeah. And that you weren't just work friends. You were friends. Yeah. And you don't have
00:40:07
Speaker
Like that's the other thing too is that, and I've done this to myself is sometimes I have created this status on friendship that, you know, if you're a best friend, then this is what's, I don't know where it came from. I've talked to somebody about this and like,
00:40:28
Speaker
Wait, you can't have more than one best friend. You have a best friend and close friends and good friends and you're considered a best friend when you talk every... Okay, no, that's not what that is. Just because we don't talk every day doesn't discount you from... It's a label, like stop.
00:40:49
Speaker
And that's where, you know, it comes into play too, because trust me, there are people that I worked with that I don't wanna do over with. I wish them all the best, but I think that that's, yeah, you're right. You figured out. We never got like a final. No, we didn't get a final. We never got a final day. No, not at all. So yes, this is very self-serving for me.
00:41:16
Speaker
And I admit that I also think too for you and the individuals that would listen all the time who haven't gotten to hear all
Leaving Radio for Health
00:41:28
Speaker
of your story. They know a lot of it from when you were on the radio, but I'm just so glad you're taking care of yourself now. That's my biggest thing on the outside looking in at you when
00:41:41
Speaker
You left radio like I know you loved it just as much as I did. That was, that was our life. Right. And I know that that wasn't easy to leave, but the absolute best thing. I know. I finally said, what happens if you treat taking care of yourself like your full-time job? Yeah.
00:42:08
Speaker
which is, I reached the point where I was like, this is what I have to do, is take care of myself. And even in taking care of myself, like, you know, there have definitely been lots of bumps in the road in the last year, but then I feel so lucky that I was, that I'm able to devote all of my attention to this. And don't you feel, cause I feel this way too now with my job at the church, the flexibility, like that if,
00:42:39
Speaker
your kiddos need you, you can be there. Not that we couldn't be there before with radio, but there's definitely like, I think about snow days before I hated snow days because I knew I had to drive to work and it would take me three hours because I had to be on the air. And now I'm like,
00:43:03
Speaker
I love snow days. I could stay with my kid, you know, things like that too. I mean, because even though, like you said, and I think that's changed for a lot of people since COVID. Yeah. It's just nice to focus on you and your family. I think the last few years we've all realized that what is it all for? Yeah. Everyone's walked up to that line.
00:43:30
Speaker
and seen that you can lose everything. And everybody had to sit in the uncomfortable, which when COVID first started, I was like, oh, people are going to understand like what it's like for someone who has an illness.
COVID-19 and Empathy Lessons
00:43:46
Speaker
And they have to be more careful and like maybe everyone will learn more empathy towards each other, which I think for a while we did.
00:44:00
Speaker
But also there are a lot of people who are very uncomfortable with feeling uncomfortable. I think we saw that with like now there's more attention to mental health. Um, thank God for that. Right. Um, and still dealing with it. But yeah, it's like, how comfortable can you be with
00:44:24
Speaker
being uncomfortable for an extended period of time. And what are the lessons that you learned or like, what did you come away with? Thinking was important for you. And I think a lot of people's values and like hierarchy of importance, like completely turned on its head.
00:44:48
Speaker
So as we wrap up, is, is that your advice? Is that what you tell someone who might be struggling, someone who might not be struggling? Like what is it?
Living Fully and Embracing Joy
00:45:02
Speaker
I feel like in the last six and a half years, like I've lived more in the last six and a half years than I did before. Like so much of my life before I was like sleep walking through life, like,
00:45:16
Speaker
Just have to get through the day. Have to get all this stuff done. Check all these things off my list. Kids, check, groceries, check, work, check, like all the check marks. And then everything changed. And I feel now like, just like it's not life or death. It's not just grief. You can't have these great moments of joy without the grief. Someone was talking, it's like the movie Inside Out.
00:45:46
Speaker
oh yeah where joy keeps trying to like keep sadness away like go away go away go away you're ruining everything but then when sadness comes in and like you realize that they exist together and some of my best moments of joy i've had because i'm living with cancer and i probably appreciate them more than i would have before silly things like
00:46:16
Speaker
watching my kids sleep, you know, when you like stand over your kids and just watch them breathe. Just little things where I might have been distracted before because I had other things that were going on that I thought were important that really aren't. It's like the joy and grief.
00:46:41
Speaker
coexist together. I feel like it's, I don't know, it's made me appreciate everything that I have more. I love you. I love you too.