Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The Run Testers Podcast | The UTMB Special
2k Plays1 year ago
This month, the team heads to Chamonix to soak up the atmosphere, check out some of the latest trail kit and cheer on the runners as they cross the finish line.
We also talk to journalist and ultra runner Howard Calvert about his experience covering the 106 miles and 10,000m of elevation during the UTMB race.
Perfect for that Sunday long run.
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to UTMB Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Hey, Tommy from The Runtesters and welcome to The Runtesters podcast. This episode is a UTMB special, so myself, Mike and Nick have all been out to Chamonix recently to see various parts of the UTMB series of races.
Hosts' UTMB Experiences
00:00:19
Speaker
In this episode, myself and Mike are going to be talking about our experiences over there, some of the kit we were testing while we were out.
00:00:26
Speaker
on the trails and about the whole experience of the event while we were there. We'll also be speaking to our friend, we'll also be speaking to a friend of ours Howard Calvert who is a journalist and an ultra runner and a very good roadrunner. He's going to be talking about his experience running this year's UTMB race and what it was like to be out there for a long time running over the mountains.
Kickoff & Chamonix Journey
00:00:49
Speaker
Hope you enjoy it. Let's dive in. Hope you enjoy it. Let's dive in.
00:01:06
Speaker
Hey, Mike. How you doing? I'm good. Good, good. Hot, hot in my room. Well, we'll get used to it because we're going to get back to, we're going to be in the UK autumn soon. I'll take it. I'll absolutely take it. Everyone says that now. And they'll be moaning about the rain. I prefer training in the colder conditions anyway, so bring on the cold conditions.
00:01:31
Speaker
Well, this is a podcast special because we have both just been out to Chamonix for UTMB in various ways. Nick was actually out there as well, but he's busy tonight, so he's not involved. So yeah, we're just about to Chamonix. You've been there before. How many times have you been there
Significance of UTMB
00:01:50
Speaker
before?
00:01:50
Speaker
That was the third time I went last year. I couldn't stay for the entire UTMB. So it's quite nice to actually see it from start to finish this year and be able to travel around. There was a couple of places that, well, one part I couldn't go to this time, but I did get to see the race from a couple of other spots I haven't done before. So it's been quite nice. And the weather was generally good. I mean, I think the early part of UTMB week wasn't fantastic for races, but in terms of the time we were there, it was pretty nice. So
00:02:17
Speaker
Well, we had a good holiday, weren't we? We had a perfect trip, a little bit of weather, lots of other good races, big races. But I suppose for the listeners, I imagine most people listening to this probably know what UTMB is, but if you don't know about UTMB, it's probably one of, if not the biggest series of trail races in the world. It's basically everyone descends on Chamonix for I think it's about a week and a half.
00:02:40
Speaker
Um, there's just a massive series of trail races of varying lengths across, across that week. It's a phenomenal, um, experience. And I, not one that I, I've never, I always see you nip out and other people and I've never been out. I've been shown many a few times, but I've never been there for UTMB. And what, I guess the thing that I never really understood about it was that people go out there who aren't racing. They just go out there for the experience of the UTMB. And before going there.
00:03:05
Speaker
I couldn't get my head around it. Why would people go if they're not racing? Yeah, I think the first time I went, I went with Garmin. They were launching one of the Phoenix watches and then last year I went with Hocka and then I went with Hocka again this year. And for me, without doubt, this was the biggest it has felt in terms of, I think, brand presence, but also the number of people. And I think the great thing about it is that the people in Chami really kind of embrace the runners being there. I mean, I don't know how
Race Village Atmosphere
00:03:34
Speaker
Well, that's going to last as it grows and it looks like it's continuing to grow. But, you know, it's just a cool I mean, I was bumping into people that say who were doing races during the week, who were just there to watch it and never watched it before. And yeah, I can just see it getting bigger and bigger just because the spread of runs across that week and just being in Chamonix where, you know, it's a beautiful place to kind of run for a lot of elevation.
00:03:57
Speaker
Completely and it's you get a sigh. So I think you probably saw a side of it which You were getting early mornings late nights to watch all the starts. I didn't do that. I basically just sort of Experience the the whole ambiance and you know nipped and tried out some bars and stuff like that but I think that's quite good because we we got we've both got different sides of it and obviously
00:04:17
Speaker
neither has raced in it, but we were speaking to Howard later in his podcast, or I'll be speaking to Howard on his podcast about actually doing the UTMB, which is again, a completely different experience from what we had. But I think that the thing for me is that when you normally go to these big races, if you go to expos for marathons and stuff like that, it's all very much the expos, they're really
00:04:40
Speaker
to be the commercial side of it and you know you could pick up your stuff some of them are okay but let's talk about the race village so the utmb has like a little village that's basically a completely temporary setup with all of the brands associated with ultra running and trail running and that sort of thing with their seems every brand wants to be there now i don't think there was many brands that i didn't see there some some i was quite surprised that were there but um it's
Trail Running Trends
00:05:07
Speaker
what do you think to the uh the village
00:05:08
Speaker
I think as I said I think you know I think this is the biggest I've ever seen I think we would probably say that you know we've heard announcements from a massive amount of brands that have kind of tried to launch things or talk about things at UTMB and probably brands that we wouldn't expect to be there but everyone seems to want
00:05:27
Speaker
a piece of the kind of ultra running, kind of trail running action. And I think, and I kind of said this in the post I did during that week is that it feels like to me, there's been more trail shoes launched this year than there has been road running shoes. And if I look through the things that I've been emailed about, I feel like there's been more trail shoes and it still seems to be coming. So clearly there's a growth in it in terms of running. I mean, it's always been there obviously, but I think and UTMB has become almost
00:05:56
Speaker
a hub for a lot of people, you know, globally, and not just, you know, people in Europe, and obviously, which is represented by, you know, the fact that US runners have won that won the big one, really, that this is a this is a popular week for a lot of runners and not just in Europe as well. Yeah, I think that's true. I think it's sort of, you know, you get the the road marathon milestones of the year. So obviously, a lot of running brands work towards London Marathon and you see a lot of releases up until London Marathon because there's all the searches on the internet for
00:06:26
Speaker
not only people doing the marathon, but also just the excitement of the marathon. Whereas with trail, I think it's always been maybe over the past two or three years, it's lessened, but it's always been a little bit more sporadic where trail shoes are generally released throughout the year. And there's never been like a central hub of buzz around an event, but it definitely seems when we were walking around the village, there were so many shoes that I hadn't heard of or hadn't seen. It seems to be the launch spot for a lot of new shoes.
00:06:54
Speaker
And it's not often that we don't know about shoes. So it definitely seemed like that was the time they'd picked to showcase them and they thought they had the right people looking at them.
00:07:05
Speaker
I think it was interesting as well. I mean, I was kind of looking through, as you do, we love talking about shoes. And I was kind of, as I was kind of watching the race, obviously keeping in mind what the leads, you know, the leads were wearing. And I think with a lot and having looked through it after the race, a lot of the runners, the winners were wearing prototypes of shoes that we're probably going to see next year. And it's interesting that
00:07:28
Speaker
those shoes have been testing out, well, I mean, not really, maybe, I guess, because this is, if you're going to test a trail shoe in an environment, this is probably the ideal environment to do it, where you're going to get a mix of terrain, that elevation, you know, you're testing it over a huge distance.
Festival-Like Experience
00:07:42
Speaker
So it's probably not that surprising that, you know, a lot of the ambassadors of the, you know, that have been involved in these races across the week are testing new shoes or prototype shoes for these brands.
00:07:54
Speaker
Yeah, so let's talk a bit about the Race Village. I think, what did you think to the people, the brands that were there at the Race Village? I thought I was quite amazed because normally when you go to these roads, bring back to road, because you don't really get many sort of big expos in the trail world.
00:08:11
Speaker
And it's not an expo, it's a village, but it's really, it's an opportunity to sort of hit all those people that are coming down to UTMB to either take part or watch it. But for me, I think it felt a lot less commercial and it seemed like there was a lot, it was fun. It seemed like there were people just spending a long time at that village and just enjoying themselves.
00:08:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, what strikes me about when you go to Math and Expose, it's really, I think for me, for brands, an opportunity to sell stuff on that day. And I think it felt to me, the UTMB one, it was more a case of, oh, you know, we just want to talk about our shoe, we want to show you our shoe, you want to, you know, a lot of places would just let you try them on. And it really is about, you know, getting familiar with a brand that maybe you don't know is not associated, you don't normally associate with
00:08:58
Speaker
trail running I think some people will obviously buy stuff but I don't I never got that sense going around that the brands are trying to sell the you know the shoes ultimately that is their job and that's what it's supposed to do but it never felt like that to me it felt like I could go around and ask someone about the shoe they would talk me through it and I think yeah I agree with you it just felt you know it felt less like that kind of expo that typical marathon expo feel
00:09:20
Speaker
Yeah, and some really impressive brands there. I mean, you've obviously, we had Hoka there who were sponsoring the event, but I think we spoke to dozens of the different brands that were there. I had a chat to Camelback and Chorus were there. And I was there with Ultra, so they had a big stage. But I think the nice thing about it is that everyone's sort of, there were lots of events going on. So a lot of runs that are being organized. So if you're one of the people that, like me, that went out there not to race,
00:09:48
Speaker
There were still loads of runs you can get involved with and nice little events that you could do, which I think it's probably, you know, you get it with marathons a bit, but it's more like a shakeout run or something like that. Whereas this was, you could probably book in like three runs a day with various brands and you get to try the shoes out and, you know, you get t-shirts and that sort of
Chamonix's Challenging Terrain
00:10:07
Speaker
thing. So it's quite a nice sort of fun environment if you want to just, I suppose it's a bit like a sort of festival of running. You can go and just get it all and stuff.
00:10:14
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, when you're in that environment, and obviously that is the environment, the terrain that these guys and, you know, women and men are running in is, is tough. And you can go out on your own or go out with a few people and get a taste of that and taste of what they're going to tackle. And like, you know, it doesn't, you don't have to go far outside of Chamonix to really see that. I mean, you did some runs. I mean, I know we did some runs together, but you know, you can go in out and see those trails and get a taste of it and just, you know, see what they're up against, even for a short period of time.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. And I, we went up, I did, I did a couple of runs, but I went, cause I've got Berlin mountain in a couple of weeks, I went relatively careful. My coach will be pleased that I didn't go and do loads of elevation and technical terrain, but we did go and do a bit of a hike at the top of one of the mountains. And when we were walking up, I was thinking, wow, this is,
00:11:06
Speaker
This is probably like very similar to the roots that the UTV people are rooting on. And I just don't think I'd want to do it to be honest, Mike. Well, I did when I went out on the first after the start, I think it was our third kind of viewing point. And it was about I don't know, it was quite late in the evening. It was dark. And it was just we were just there was just people standing on a hill and it was like
00:11:30
Speaker
It was interesting to see the runners. Some runners were running up it, some were straight away, the walking poles were out. But there were so many people watching, it was such a narrow space to be. And that was so early in the race that that's given you a sense of just some of the elevation. But I mean, I've been around that course and you can see
00:11:50
Speaker
what they
UTMB Race Challenges
00:11:51
Speaker
have to kind of deal with. And even not in that main UTMB race, you know, the smaller, you know, smaller races, I guess, you know, are still really difficult. And people that we know have done those other races in the week and know it is hard and that elevation, you know, that's why those runners go and do it, right? Because they want to test themselves in that environment.
00:12:09
Speaker
Well, we knew a lot of runners out there, so big shout out to Rich, who did the CCC, who else have we got out there? Obviously Howard, who we talked to a bit. Yeah, Howard, yeah. Yeah, there was a few people doing the CCC, and obviously there was the new event, the ETC, which I think was more of a kind of intro into what the kind of bit of the elevation that some of the runners will kind of tackle in a shorter distance.
00:12:36
Speaker
James Poole out there doing the MCC. I think so, yeah. It's madness. I'm glad we went because you know when you're... To be honest, I've never seen it like it before, but it seemed like everybody on Instagram was that you can pick in various constraints. I think Hannah from Twice Health did CCC as well. I might have got that wrong.
00:12:59
Speaker
If I get any of these race names wrong, apologize. But yeah, I think for me, it was, I mean, I went to a lot of bars. I tried a lot. I enjoyed, with the Altra guys, I was enjoying some of the local cuisine and stuff. I think you had a bit of a different experience because your trip was, I mean, sounded pretty full on what you were up to. You saw everything, didn't you?
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think Hoka basically wanted to give us a sense of, you know, seeing as much of the race across the three countries, it goes across three countries, the race. So we were there at the start and we got a couple of the stages just after the start as well, we had to drive out to. And then we, the following day we woke up, we had to wake up at 4am out on a bus
00:13:45
Speaker
So we were meant to go to Cormorveda but we couldn't get there and that's where the CCC normally starts but I think it was like two or three hours traffic at even at that time of the morning so we had to abandon that. We went over to Switzerland instead which I didn't do much of the last two times that I went. We saw
00:14:03
Speaker
The elites come in, I saw Zach Miller, he was the head of Jim Warmsley, which was quite interesting to see because the next stage we saw, they had swapped over. Apparently, for some reason, Warmsley had had a kick change as well. But it was good to see it at different stages, at different times of the day. And then, yeah, you're going to be speaking to Howard, and he not running elite times, but ran an amazing time, and he didn't finish until
00:14:28
Speaker
I got early hours in the morning and I got to see him at the early hours of the morning with other runners and it keeps on going throughout the day, the following day even when we're leaving. And the support, people are always supporting and I think that's something that's kind of very special about being in Chamonix and for the youth in being that week.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think
Finish Line Emotions
00:14:48
Speaker
it's interesting. I nipped into town quite a lot, so we were both staying quite central. So I'd be nipping in and out of town to sort of go and look at things and catch a bit of the race. But the final part of the race, I mean, the start of the race for the big UTMB looked absolutely incredible, like the whole
00:15:04
Speaker
everybody is out. It's crowds of people lining the streets as people run out. And it's a phenomenal experience, especially that start line. If you go online, you can find pictures of it. It's absolutely incredible. But I think for me, the most interesting bit is that finish line where you might have 20 minutes where there's just nothing.
00:15:23
Speaker
nothing going on, then suddenly some guy, some woman runs through and the whole of Xaminy, who can see it, just sort of run over and just start cheering for this person coming in. And you don't know what race they're in until they get closer and you see the number that they've got on, but it's very nice. I mean, you can sort of see, there's a very nice sense. I imagine if we ever did one of these races, and I probably won't, but that's a very nice way to finish a race where you just sort of
00:15:52
Speaker
know that you're just people are just going to be there although i thought it was quite hilarious that is there's literally only two chairs outside of the finish line basically you've got all these runners coming through who are absolutely dying on their ass and there's like two chairs and there's generally someone from the utb sitting on one of the chairs and people are asking can can we sit on the chair oh yeah yeah we can literally two chairs for all these runners
00:16:12
Speaker
been running like pretty much all day and all night but yeah it is something pretty special and actually being coming into the finish line and being in that kind of press area that we were allowed access to obviously um was great to get a sense you know i saw the mixture of emotions in the press area even at the start you see people you see the nerves you see the excitement you just see people you know silent you know i could for the elites i could see you know tom evans is
Howard's UTMB Insights
00:16:37
Speaker
you know obviously he had a tough race obviously had to drop out you could see very focused very quiet and other races there was one guy kind of kneeling down kind of you know obviously i don't know why he didn't want to stand up at the start of the race but it's bizarre people's pre you know race approaches and being able to be out close to see it as well
00:16:54
Speaker
I don't even know how, I mean, I've done a couple of like little ultras, but the flat ultras, but I've done, but you know, the nerves you get at the start of the marathon. I can't even imagine if you were doing the UTMB and you're doing, what is it? 170K or something like that. I didn't even know. Cause the nerves aren't just like, I want to get a good time. You don't know what's going to happen on it. You don't know it's dangerous. It's, you know, if you do finish it, you're looking at a pretty tough ride all the way.
00:17:24
Speaker
You know, when you do a marathon and you, you kind of go, I'm a bit nervous about it, but you sort of cross the finish line and go, yeah, it's quite hard. But, you know, but I think the UCMB, some of the stories from people like what they went through across it and how hard it was, I think the nerves at the start of that would be absolutely incredible. We'll find out from Howard.
00:17:41
Speaker
Well, I think because, you know, you're thinking about the distance, you're thinking about elevation, you're thinking about dealing with the altitude, you know, you're thinking and also thinking about going through the night. All those. And like you say, you know, the ultras that we've kind of experienced, you maybe do some of that, have to deal with some of that. You have to deal with all of those things. And yeah, like you say, you know, you'll get into it with Hal, but there was definitely, you know, talking to some other runners, the things that they have to deal with.
00:18:07
Speaker
Even on the races leading up to the main UTMB one, there is a lot to deal with and have to tackle. And you've got a time cut off, so you've got that added element of distress that you can't even do it slowly, whereas a lot of races, you're not worried about that.
Gear Reviews & Testing
00:18:23
Speaker
So while we were out there, Mike, what were you testing? Because we were testing a few things while we were out in UTMB.
00:18:29
Speaker
Yeah, so I had the, well, I just got the KOROS PACE 3. So, you know, I literally had that for a day. So that was an opportunity to go and do some more testing than that, which was great. And I think, you know, early impressions, I think that's another solid kind of update for KOROS, probably still their best value watch, even though it's gone up a little bit in price. Shoes wise, it was the Hocker Stinson 7, which is another road to trails shoe in Hocker's collection.
00:19:02
Speaker
It's a little bit more expensive. I would say it's a little bit like the Challenger 7 in the sense that it's really about kind of soaking up a lot of mileage, not necessarily a shoe that you're going to want to run massively quick in, but it's a shoe that's well equipped if you've got to mix up road and a bit of trail time, maybe more light trails, maybe not the technical stuff.
00:19:19
Speaker
that you get in Chamonix, but it has the capability to do that and give you something that's quite stable, quite smooth and let you sail through those miles. So I ran with that and then you did some running with it as well in part of your training run. Not 10 miles as part of my training run, yeah. We did the review, so the first run and it's up on the channel now. I think what I said about it was it reminds me of the Bondi, but if you convert the Bondi to a trail shoe, it's actually not that bad.
00:19:48
Speaker
It's on a road for both eyes is quite a dull, bulky and exciting shoe for me. Whereas that same sort of design actually is quite nice on the trails because you're a bit softer, feels really sturdy and protective. It's just a workhorse, isn't it? Crew crews you through the miles. You know, you're never going to run fast in it. Not a chance. But I definitely I was I was testing the ultra
00:20:14
Speaker
Timp 4 and I I've only tested one out shoe before and that was the outro 2 and the outro 2 I didn't mind but it was a little bit too firm for me it's sort of meant to be a road to trail shoe but it's too firm for the road for me so I didn't really I didn't really enjoy it as much as I did the Timp 4 and the Timp 4 I actually spoke to the guys outro and they suggested the Timp 4 because it was I don't think it's the highest cushion shoe but it's pretty pretty cushioned so I did 10 miles in that before doing it in the Stinson and what I found was
00:20:44
Speaker
that zero drop is tricky to get your head around. Especially because I got the early marathon in two weeks and Nick keeps saying to me, stop messing about and testing shoes that you're not used to with no drop and playing tennis. I shouldn't be. But I did find that it was
00:21:00
Speaker
At 10 miles, I was expecting to really notice the fact that I wasn't experienced in a zero drop shoe, but it was absolutely fine. It's quite a lot softer than I expected it to be. But I did find after 10 miles, when I switched to the Stinson, I really noticed the stability of it. And that was a nice welcome one because when I left you and carried on doing some running in Stinson, I actually went up a bit more into the forest and hills and it got a bit gravelly, a bit pointy. I was a bit tired. So I definitely think it was
00:21:28
Speaker
I like the stability of it. I think it's a good shoe as a trail shoe for a lot of people. But I did say that if you wanted a faster shoe, a reverse style shoe, you're going to have to buy two shoes.
00:21:41
Speaker
And then obviously, I guess, you know, Nick was there, was out there kind of before. So he had the Adidas Terrex, AgriVich speed ultra. So, and then we've got a video up on the channel of that as well. So that's, you know, a couple of, I think the CCC and I think the OCC, the women's runners, they ran in and won in that.
00:21:59
Speaker
shoe so you know that's kind of a different kind of category in terms of trail shoe definitely a more aggressive speedy one but Nick's kind of delved into that on the channel as well. Is that a top pick for the Orion Ultra?
00:22:13
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know what he's going to go for. He hasn't really decided yet. He hasn't done his video yet. It's exciting, isn't it? What he's going to pick for the famous Orion Ultra weekend.
Personal Event Highlights
00:22:24
Speaker
Nice. Okay. And then so, PACE 3, we're going to be doing a review of that in the next week or so. I've been testing it as well. Very much enjoying it. PACE just solid. And I think the updates to it justify the additional cost for me and the sort of
00:22:41
Speaker
improvements that have been made, some of the features and GPS type stuff. But we will dip into that in the next couple of weeks. Big win for me for UTMB. Did you get the Coros hat? I did get the Coros hat. I'm obsessed with the Coros hat. It's basically just a running hat, but it's got a Velcro front on it and you get loads of badges, Velcro badges, and you can change the Coros badges that you put on it.
00:23:08
Speaker
I think you're going to have to put a little video up on this on the channel just to show people how. I'll do an Instagram post with the hat on because I've been wearing it loads. But what I really want to do, and of course probably won't be pleased that I want to do this, is get some more badges made and stick other things on it. Like have a, I don't know, Seinfeld badge or something like that to get on. So I've got a running cap that I can redesign every time I go out. I don't know what I've been looking for.
00:23:33
Speaker
No, exactly. There's not enough Velcro caps, because then, you know, you can just... Well, when we got it, I thought, hold on, there must be more of these, because that's a genius idea, being able to change the design of your cap. I can't find anything. I can't find anything anywhere. I've had a couple of sort of standard caps that you can do it on, but not running caps. I think that's a new thing. I think Corus have created something quite impressive there, obviously.
00:24:01
Speaker
quite bad kind of production if you start changing the badges. But yeah, I reckon I can smart move. And I think the only thing I would actually also quickly mention I can probably talk about it more next month is I did go to see Suunto while I was out there sneaky sneaky and
00:24:17
Speaker
they have got something pretty big coming up which I can't talk about right now but I think it's pretty exciting and I have had some time with it so we'll learn about more we'll learn more about that next month well I can talk about a bit more but there's definitely something some new things coming new things coming or we'll put it up we all hear about it on well I had a sneak peek of a new piece of kit that's coming out in a few months from Camelback which I was quite
Training & Track Tips
00:24:42
Speaker
pleased with
00:24:42
Speaker
Excellent. So I can't say anything about that now, but it's I've tested it on a few runs now and I'm pretty pleased with it But that my favorite thing I got from them was a really big it's like a coffee tumbler It's like a pipe coffee tumbler in like a metal a metal one. I'm easy all the time It's just my glass all the time
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just walking around with Kaurav's cap on and drinking out of a big tumbler. Sorted for your vert training. Get your vert training for UTMB. You'll be fine. That's all you need. Absolutely. Absolutely sorted. Absolutely sorted. And then I suppose anything from the week. So I hit the track. You must have been on the track before. I've been on the track before, but I didn't get a chance to this time. But yeah, how did you find it? It's not a full 400 meter. No, it's cake.
00:25:29
Speaker
Kate Carter has told me about this. She said the first time she went on it, she thought, wow, I really improve my speed. The fastest 400 meter lap she'd ever done. But now I think it's like 300 and something.
00:25:41
Speaker
Um, but I wasn't running fast enough to know. So yeah, I was testing out the, uh, soccer knee endorphin cheetahs. Spikes, which, um, I mean, I've never used spikes in my life. Talking about UTMB and ended up talking about spikes on a track, but I've got to mix it up a bit for the audience. So we, uh, so I, I tried that out. I didn't do too, I did about three K on the track. Wowzers. I, it's a weird experience running in spikes. I haven't tried before.
00:26:08
Speaker
I've liked once but a very long time ago but would you say you're converted to wearing tracks? I think it is I mean another thing that Nick had a go at me for two weeks before Berlin don't just try and track shoes notoriously bad for calves and stuff like that if you're not used to it but I mean they're fast they're obviously really fast and short reps wow yeah really good but yeah I didn't go all out so I think I might I might do Berlin and then
00:26:34
Speaker
take them out and actually do a proposition because I don't think I know Nick wins. Do you not do your shake out run in Berlin in your in your spikes? That's not a bad idea actually. I bet there's a truck close by, yeah. Nice.
Howard's UTMB Participation
00:26:48
Speaker
Cool. All right then, well, I'm going to go and have a chat to Howard now and see what the UTMB was like for an actual runner out there and not two people having a good time. Enjoy. Catch you later.
00:27:09
Speaker
So hi, Howard, welcome to the podcast. How's it all going? Yeah, not bad. Not bad. We're covering slowly. I imagine so. So you have just been out to UTMB to do the full UTMB, which is, is it 170k? Yeah, something like that. 105 miles, I think.
00:27:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's too much. It's far too much. I was out there and me and Mike were out there and we obviously weren't running. Well, I did a bit of running on the flats looking up at the mountains and then did a bit of hiking on the mountains. And I've never done a proper mountain race before and it just looked ridiculously hard. Was it?
00:27:53
Speaker
It was, yeah. I've done quite a few ultras now and it was the hardest, I'd say the hardest race I've ever done without a doubt. I suppose it's less, I mean, the distance is hard, but it's the climbing and descending. So 10,000 meters of vertical gain over the 105 miles. It's an absolute killer.
00:28:17
Speaker
I can't even imagine what 10,000 meters is like. What's the highest elevation you've got to in a race or a run before that? So it's around 6,000 meters. Probably done three runs on about that. So yeah, an extra
00:28:37
Speaker
4000 meters on top of that. Yeah, it's weird because you look at the profile of the race, you know, online, you see the climbs and it doesn't look too bad when you're looking at it. But when you're actually in the race climbing these switchbacks, it kind of never ends. You look around each corner and you think this has got to be the last one.
00:28:55
Speaker
and, you know, just keeps on going. Well, yeah, I mean, I've touched some people who've done the shorter races and they sounded hard enough. So what made you decide to do the UTMB? Was it a goal that you'd had for a long time or did you just fancy it? Yeah, it's kind of one of those races I'd got on the list of races I wanted to
00:29:19
Speaker
have a go at. So yeah, it's, I mean, it's such a sort of iconic race. And being in Chamonix last week of August every year is as a trail runner, you know, it was like 20,000 other trail runners in that tiny town. It's the only place really you want to be at that time of the year, because it's just a great atmosphere. I mean,
00:29:44
Speaker
you've been there as well. It's got these big name trail runners sort of mingling with fans and just walking around and there's seven races in a week across the whole week and it's the atmosphere is just electric there for the whole week. I've never been, I've been shouting a few times but I've never actually, I've never been there for UTMB and Mike's been there a couple of times before and I couldn't quite get my head around it because from being a road runner
00:30:09
Speaker
The only equivalent really is either the race day at a marathon or the expo. They're the two main things. And I couldn't quite get my head around what people were doing the rest of the time at Chamonix. It just seemed like... And the other thing as well is that you go and see a marathon, you stand in a spot and you see all the runners. You're constantly watching runners. It's like a consistent
00:30:32
Speaker
Level of excitement but with utmb you can go you can be sat Down near the finish line and nothing's happening for an hour and then suddenly some some bloke route starts running through Why you just halfway through your sandwich and everyone just gets up and starts starts cheering it's it's I've never I didn't understand what it was going to be like before I went and
00:30:53
Speaker
And it's the other things was like the expo. I say the expo, it's not an expo, it's a village. It's a it's an athlete village. I just assumed before I went that it was going to be like an expo, but it's really it's really like a little shopping village, isn't it?
Night Running Challenges
00:31:06
Speaker
For for actual brands that people want to see. So it's quite a very different vibe to the town when you go over.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And it's, I think it's the fact that it goes on all week as well. And, you know, there's loads of events and talks and screenings and all kinds of stuff you can really sort of get immersed in that world.
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's great. It's a great place to be at. Yeah. And people go there who aren't taking part in any of the races. They just want to be there and be part of the scene and just enjoy it. I mean, to be honest, it's a pretty nice place to go and do that. I mean, if it was in Bradford, you're probably going to be less likely for people to visit because there are people from all over the world. I was chatting to bars and stuff that come over to see it. Well, yeah. I mean, you see that in the race as well.
00:31:56
Speaker
you've got your little number and name and flag that you attach to the back of your pack so that you can always see the person in front and where they're from. And it was just, it was from across the globe that I saw runners in the UTMB is incredible.
00:32:14
Speaker
It's sort of the, it must be like the central event, if not, you know, one of the top three central events, if you're in the hot across the whole world that I can't think of anything that runs over that period with so many races and stuff. Yeah, no, there's nothing like it.
00:32:30
Speaker
And it was his 20th year this year as well. So it was obviously a big sort of anniversary celebrations as well. That would explain why there's so many people there. But yeah, I absolutely loved it. So let's let's talk about the race. So people listening to this might be listening after you've done the race or they might be listening in 2024 as they're planning to do UCMB as well and want some guidance on what they can expect from it.
00:32:55
Speaker
So, what's it like in the run-up to doing the full UTMB? You're in Chamonix, how long were you there before the start of the race? I got there the day before. It starts on Friday, 6pm Friday evening, so I arrived Thursday morning, which is probably quite late. A lot of people get there a week before the pro runners spend
00:33:23
Speaker
a couple of months beforehand getting used to it. I just had to sort of get there and pick up my bib number and then yeah just got ready for the next day. So I always get slightly stressed in these these ultras about the mandatory kit list. That's you know for UTMB you've got a long list of stuff that you have to carry with you and there's also additional lists
00:33:51
Speaker
the hot weather and the cold weather so they check it actually on the course at one of the aid stations you get sort of asked to produce three specific items so you've got you know you've got to ensure that you carry it all the way around with you. So yeah making sure I had all the mandatory kits and obviously there's the expo there so you can buy any anything you've forgotten
00:34:18
Speaker
And then, yeah, the sort of day of the race, the Friday, 6pm start is always a weird time to start a race because you've got the whole day anticipating that start.
00:34:31
Speaker
you're thinking about what am I going to eat? You're trying to stay sort of horizontal and not moving as much as possible. So I kind of spent the day resting. I had to drop off my drop
Scenery & Camaraderie
00:34:46
Speaker
bag so you can have a drop bag at the halfway point with some whatever you want to put in there, change of kit.
00:34:54
Speaker
nutrition. And I think the biggest stress I had was shoe choice. So I spent a long time debating between two pairs of trail shoes, because about five weeks previously I'd run Lakeland 100, which was the first 100 mile I'd ever done.
00:35:14
Speaker
And the wet conditions resulted in sort of mild trench. I had horrendous blisters on the soles of my feet, which had just about healed by the time of UTMB. And yeah, I'd ran. So I'm a big fan of the Speedgo 5s. I generally not had any issues with them until Lakeland 100, when
00:35:39
Speaker
my feet were such a mess. So I wasn't sure whether to go with them and risk getting blisters on the soles, or my other choice was than the fates, the fave fours. And they were a bit tight around the toes, and I was slightly worried about, you know, destroying my toes. So in the end, I went with the speed gate fives, and they were fine. It was just, I think I realized on the first major downhill that you're essentially
00:36:07
Speaker
your feet just pressed up against the front of the toe box because it's so steep. And immediately I was like, this is going to be painful, you know, 50, 70k, I'm going to be in agony.
00:36:23
Speaker
Was it the right choice? I think so. Yeah, I think I didn't get blisters on the soles of my feet. I taped them all in sort of preparation to prevent that. But you know, I've lost probably five toenails. I suppose that's par for the course, isn't it? It's par for the course. Yeah. And it is the downhills that really you see lots of people trying to go down sideways towards the end of the
Finish Line Reflections
00:36:51
Speaker
race because it's it's just it's relentless there's so long and there's nothing you can do in the UK really to train for that kind of terrain so yeah it was all sort of building towards that 6 p.m start on the Friday
00:37:15
Speaker
Let's talk about the sections of the race. Now, when you start off at UTMB, 6 o'clock at night, it's a bit of a weird time to start. What is that first bit of the race like? Is it exciting? Are you scared? Is it hard to start straight away? Or is it just everyone's elated about being part of the big pack? I think there's a lot of elation. There's a lot of adrenaline.
00:37:41
Speaker
I started the race probably 2,000 people back. I mean there's 2,600 runners. I didn't get very far towards the front and you're bunched into the square in Germany where the finish line is that iconic finish line and the race starts and you're almost walking through the town because it's quite narrow. The crowds through Germany are unbelievable. It's like London Marathon but kind of more
00:38:11
Speaker
more frenetic you know the yes the crowd are going crazy it's obviously six p.m friday night a lot of drinks flowing you get out of shamani and it's pretty flat for the first 15 20k it's like riverside trails
00:38:27
Speaker
And actually, I completely stacked it about 15K in. I tripped over a tiny rock, completely rolled, grazed my legs shoulder. I haven't even hit a mountain yet. And
00:38:50
Speaker
coming from Lincolnshire, I should also be used to flatlands, but yeah, so that was a little embarrassing. I think it's just the adrenaline is going, you know, I was also probably running a bit fast trying to make up, you know, trying to pass runners and make up a few positions. And then you enter probably two or three towns, Lezouche and
Future Ultra Challenges
00:39:15
Speaker
a couple of others where, again, the crowds just
00:39:20
Speaker
just unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it in any of the races I've done, you know, there's air horns, there's just so much cheering and excitement and throwing beer on the runners. And that all builds towards the first major climb, which was honestly like the Tour de France crowds, you know, the Notre Dame de La Gorge, they crowd in. So you're running up a very narrow single track, steep,
00:39:49
Speaker
climb. And these, I mean, they're blowing air horns in your face. They're waving like red flares. There's a guy revving a chainsaw. And yeah, it was just such a great experience. Just that just that section that you know, I think my heart rate must have gone up to like 190 or something. You're just blown away by it. It was it was great.
00:40:14
Speaker
And then, and then sort of once you pass through that crowd, that was probably like half 10, 11 PM. Then it sort of quietens down. You've got the first major climb and you can sort of settle down and get into the rhythm of the race. So what's the, I mean, it sounds like there's a bit of a big juxtaposition between the, the busy bits. And obviously when you're in the mountains and stuff, you're, you're probably.
00:40:39
Speaker
into some of the most lonely and quiet spots you'd ever run in. How's that feel when you're jumping between those sorts of bits?
00:40:52
Speaker
It is quite a difference. You need that quietness, I think, after the adrenaline spike in crowds to just kind of, you know, suddenly settle into the only sound is like your sound of poles tapping and my own
00:41:09
Speaker
heavy breathing. Yeah, I mean, you're usually in a long line of runners. There's someone pretty much directly in front of you, someone behind you, and you're kind of just settling in for a two-hour climb, at least two and a half, three hours for these big climbs. And that first night,
UTMB Tips & Techniques
00:41:30
Speaker
I mean, the weather was pretty good.
00:41:32
Speaker
uh that's other obviously another major factor that can affect the race but we were lucky this year um you know earlier in the week they'd had snow up upon some of the the summits and um we had fair weather we had sort of low cloud cover once we we hit the very highest points so you needed to um you know add a few extra layers and actually it was all i mean it
00:41:56
Speaker
it was you couldn't see far ahead with your head lamp on it was right on the summit you're kind of having to be careful because it's pretty rocky and then yeah down hills i was taking pretty easy because you just don't want to roll an ankle or anything like that
00:42:12
Speaker
at that time of night. So yeah, first night was just getting through it and trying to keep moving. I think the major issue for me was sort of nutrition issues. I was struggling to eat anything solid at the aid stations. The aid stations have got a great huge range of sort of foods and nutrition.
00:42:39
Speaker
I always struggled to eat anything solid during these longer ultras. I just can't seem to chew and swallow stuff. It's mainly liquid-based nutrition for me, but it was even worse this time. And by the time I got to Kormeia at 80K, so that's where your drop bag is. That's like in a big sports hall. And the advice I'd heard there was to kind of get in and get out because that's where loads of people drop. They sort of call it a day.
00:43:08
Speaker
you've done it, you're not even halfway actually at that point. And having run around the CCC in 2019, which starts at that point, basically, and is essentially pretty much the same route into Chamonix from there, another 100k.
00:43:27
Speaker
So I kind of knew what was ahead at that point. I was feeling pretty awful. And that's when the thoughts of like, you know, it'd be easy just to drop at this point. That's when they come in. So from that point, it's a mental battle to just try and get out the aid station and keep moving towards the next one, which I did. You've got a huge climb. From that point, you're in Italy, at least you're into the second country. And it's a long climb up, you know, like a mountain refuge
Post-UTMB Reflections
00:43:55
Speaker
where
00:43:57
Speaker
one of the volunteers at the aid station basically saw how rough I was looking and was like, look, just get some soup in you. And they do this sort of soup, which is essentially stock. You know, it's it's pretty easy to drink. So I drank some of that. She goes drink some coke, which normally I avoid coke on altruism. I find it doesn't agree with me, but I drank that. And from that point on, I start to feel a lot better. So
00:44:26
Speaker
Really, it's to thank that volunteer at that aid station. She was very insistent. Shout out to the volunteer then, Phil, when you finish. All the volunteers were amazing, all the marshals, huge team that it takes to get this race done.
00:44:51
Speaker
So I know Mike came to see you at the finish line, but he mentioned that you had some really tough bits in the race that you weren't sure whether you're going to continue. What would you say were the really low points of the race for you? Well, I was feeling the worst out of the whole race coming to call my air. It's just the fact that I hadn't really
00:45:18
Speaker
had enough calories probably and you just know what's coming. You've got three, well you've got one major climb up to Calder Ferret and that's huge. And then after that, you've still got three climbs to do before you get back to Chamonix and they look small.
00:45:36
Speaker
probably a thousand meters or so, 800 meters to a thousand meters, but when you're in it, doing it, it just, you know. That's not small in UK terms. That's the most you're going to get. You're passing people, you know, kind of sat on rocks, just looking in despair, their head in their hands, and
00:45:56
Speaker
you're trying to encourage them to keep going you know I had to stop and you know multiple times in fact I even took a nap on a picnic bench probably just 10 minutes just because I was feeling pretty rough at that point and you know you're going into the second night the second night's coming up you know the you're not going to finish in daylight no chance so it's just you know I think well I've got to prepare myself for running through another night I'm not entirely sure
00:46:25
Speaker
how long it's going to take you to finish. In fact, time kind of goes out the window. You have no concept of how long you've been running or what the time is apart from whether it's dark or light. Well, from the low points, we'll talk about the finish in a bit, but throughout the race, there's probably things, obviously, you've got the towns, that's a little bit of a bump for mentally to maybe see those towns.
00:46:50
Speaker
Is there anything, what would you say throughout the whole race, the times where you thought you really started to pick up and get excited again? I mean a lot of it's scenery based. You've obviously run through the night the first night, so you've missed a lot of the French, I missed a lot of that first sort of French section. Sunrise was once we were kind of in Italy.
00:47:13
Speaker
And that Italian section was absolutely stunning. You're looking around and suddenly I find myself veering off the track and you're like, I better just keep an eye on where I'm running here because I want a dangerously high cliff edge. The sun was out, the skies were blue. It was
00:47:35
Speaker
that you can't fail to be inspired by what you're running through and then you move from Italy into Switzerland that again you could sort of slightly different environment you know you kind of got huge grass meadows and loads of cows you hear their cow bells in fact we had to stop at one point because three cows were like crossing the path in front of us
00:47:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think you just don't see scenery like that anywhere else in the world. I think that's what draws most of the runners there to it. You're running around this hugely iconic mountain through three countries. There's no other race like that really that offers that. What do you say about the... Obviously, I've never done one of these big ultra marathons, but what's the
00:48:23
Speaker
The camaraderie like with people, is it very much you're on your own or do you get involved with the other people that are running it? Yeah, it's very much everyone is supporting each other. Even though there's a lot of language barriers and obviously people from different countries and you're all going through the same thing and everyone
00:48:47
Speaker
can appreciate the pain that you might be in at certain points and sometimes you're in a good space and you feel like you're making good progress. Other times you're having to dig yourself out of the pain cave and other runners are encouraging you along. So yeah, it's a great sense of camaraderie and
00:49:09
Speaker
People were kind of encouraging you when you're resting to get back involved. Don't sit resting too long otherwise you're getting cold. It's much harder to get going. So yeah, it was good. But you find that you're running with different people all the time because even at the aid stations, I was taking quite a long time at the aid stations, whereas some people are much more efficient in getting in and out pretty rapidly. So you're constantly running with different people, I found.
00:49:38
Speaker
All right, let's jump on to the coming into the finish. Now that must be after, after that distance and that elevation, what, what is the feeling as you, as you, as you see Chamonix for the first time and you start to make your way there? Well, I've been focused on the finish line for the whole race. Basically, you know, it kind of, uh, mentally helps me get, get around the race. So.
00:50:01
Speaker
when we came into Chamonix it kind of, I think the route had changed slightly towards the last 20k or so so I was expecting it to be like the CCC when I ran that but it was actually different and we kind of just popped out of this long downhill and I suddenly recognised where we were in Chamonix and we were like less than 2k from the finish and I was like
00:50:23
Speaker
I was absolutely shocked because I thought I had a lot longer to go and it was such a relief because I was like, well, you know, you've seen the finish. If you've watched UTMB live at any point in the past, you know when they hit that riverside path, you're practically there.
00:50:41
Speaker
And suddenly I was like, well, unless I fall over now, I'm going to make this finish. And so I suddenly found a little bit extra energy. You've got quite a long path next to the river. You turn right, you're into the Chamonix town center. And that's where I saw Mike at like, because I was finishing at about four, half 4 a.m. And so I wasn't expecting to see anyone at that point. And Mike was shouting me and,
00:51:09
Speaker
he ran in with me and yeah, that was a great, you know, just such a boost. And looking back at the video of myself kind of running in, I'm practically collapsing forward on, you know, I'm so sort of hunched over with exhaustion. You run Yeah, you run through and even at 4am, there was there was people there
00:51:31
Speaker
watching the finishes come in and cheering you in. So yeah, just finishing. It's just a huge relief. I think everyone would agree that you don't have to run anymore. You don't have to put one foot in front of the other. You can sit down and
00:51:47
Speaker
I was going to say, you're finishing a marathon, you're still in a pretty good state after a marathon, you're maybe a bit tired, but you can still say, all right, I'm going to get some food now, I'm going to have a sit down or whatever. After that race, when you've crossed that finish line, what's the first thing you think about doing? You just say, I just need to pass out somewhere here, or I'm so hungry, or what's that first feeling you get?
00:52:10
Speaker
Yeah, for me, it's just not having to move. So I just want to collapse somewhere into a seat. There was a seat right at the finish. I can't eat or drink anything really. And yeah, just resting, kind of recuperating and just taking in the moment that you've done it. You've achieved this thing that you were hoping to get around. So yeah, it felt great. Just not to have to keep running anymore, really.
00:52:37
Speaker
I'll bet you, have you got another one in the plan anytime soon or are you doing it for a while? I think I've done for a while. I mean, I'm always looking at the race calendar for next year. It's quite hard to top it, isn't it? Once you've done that, it's...
00:52:52
Speaker
Finding something else to compare it with is a tricky one. Well, it is a bit. And I think my wife's always like, oh, now you're going to want to do a 200 mile race. You know, that is to go in further at the moment is not something that appeals. It was more just just entering and being part of that race was something I wanted to do.
00:53:12
Speaker
Wow, well, you did it. That's very good. So for the listeners who may be listening to this thinking they might want to do it, or maybe they are going to do it and they're already signed up by the time they're listening to this, what would be the things that, based on the fact that you've now done it, any advice you can give on maybe something you did wrong or things that you didn't think about before doing it that you now know?
00:53:34
Speaker
Yeah, so I think in terms of my training, I trained for this race slightly differently. I think maybe I would have done in the past, which was didn't do really long runs basically. The longest run I did in training was probably about 25 miles. My aim was to try and build volume in a week. So I was aiming to get a few hundred K weeks in, which meant just trying to run when I could and obviously having
00:54:02
Speaker
hills in the south of England is a bit of an issue as well. So I was trying to find the biggest hill I could and do lots of hill repeats up and down that. So maybe 20, 30 times of a hill of about 200, 250 meters. That helped, I think. And the other big difference I made was with my strength training.
00:54:24
Speaker
So strength and conditioning I try to do twice a week with heavier weights, which I think really helped. The other advice I'd give is use poles. So I'm in 90% of runners I saw in UTMB had poles. My pole running technique is not great. You see some people who have absolutely nailed it and they kind of just
00:54:49
Speaker
fast hiking while you think you're going fast and they're just moving past you so swiftly and efficiently, I could definitely do some work on running with poles. That's definitely a big area. A lot of people who I speak to do ultras
00:55:06
Speaker
just buy poles before they go out thinking that's going to help, but it's actually counterproductive. If you don't know how to use the poles, you're carrying around two things that aren't helping you and you're actually just slapping them into the ground. I've never been that good at using poles, but definitely the people I know who can use them well say it's essential to how they run. Yeah, I think it's a game changer. If you can
00:55:28
Speaker
get loads of practice in, maybe even do a course or a session of someone teaching you how to hike with them properly. I think that'll make a big difference. So yeah, and then nutrition. I'm not really sure how I can sort of fix the issues that I have. I mean, everyone has issues at some point in these long races. It's just part of it. I guess you just got to deal with it and try and
00:55:53
Speaker
Try mentally think well, this is going to be temporary it will get better I suppose of nutrition. There's two sides to it really. There's the
00:56:03
Speaker
Yes, you can learn if there's anything that really doesn't work for you. So, you know, there's certain foods and things that you just, just don't, just don't agree with you. But then the other side is there's things that you're never going to know over that distance, over that elevation, you know, your body's going to respond in a different way than you used to. So yeah, that's a, yeah, it's got to be a tricky one, isn't it? So there's only so much you can do when it comes to nutrition. Yeah, you can't prepare for, for running for, I mean,
00:56:31
Speaker
I was out there for nearly 35 hours, so you could test different products beforehand, but how your body reacts on a day, you know, it could be down to the weather, it could be down to all sorts of things. So I think the most important thing is just trying to get through it and think it is temporary. It won't last forever. I think the other the other kit issue I had was head torch.
00:56:55
Speaker
I could have done with a better battery life on the head torch. As part of the kit, you had to take two head torches with batteries for both. One night, I got through three batteries, basically, on both head torches.
00:57:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's something I need to look at next time. No one else seemed to be having the issues that I was having, but maybe it was just my choice. You can spend a lot on a head torch, but it's probably, mine was sort of mid range. It's probably worth going for the top of the range. I imagine head torch is a very tricky one because
00:57:34
Speaker
got so many factors involved got the battery you got the weight of it you don't want that weight on your head if it's you know if there's a better battery life in it. Well most of them are USB charging now as well so if you're taking you can recharge it with a power bank for the next night but if you're going through two nights you've got to really have that issue sorted so I think I would have been all right but I would have been down to my
00:57:56
Speaker
backup head torch on a very low lumens light, which could have slowed me down even more. But yeah, that's one thing to sort for next time. All right, well then let's just jump on to kit then. Talk to a little bit about some kit there. How did your planning go into actually choosing the kit that you're using? You mentioned your shoes, but what else did you take with you that really needed a lot of thought? So I guess one useful bit of kit is a race belt. So you've obviously got your pack on.
00:58:26
Speaker
and I've got, you know, most packs have quivers now, a few poles. I always find putting them in.
00:58:32
Speaker
back in after you've reached the top of a hill, difficult. So actually a race belt, you can just kind of slot them in behind on the elastic, behind the base of your back. That's quite a lot easier I've found. So I was kind of using the race belt for the poles as well as just for easy access to gels and other bits and pieces you might find not so easy to access on your pack because your pack is pretty full.
00:59:02
Speaker
with a mandatory kit is actually quite heavy. So yeah, race belt was a useful addition just for extra storage really. Aside from that and the head torch issue, I don't think there are any other major kit issues or problems.
00:59:20
Speaker
Nice. So you said you've not really got anything, you're not sure what's going to be coming up next. Are there any races that you've thought about or you've been looking at and you think, I wouldn't mind giving that one a go? I think for me, Western States is one I would like to one day have a go at. It's obviously difficult to get into. It's a small number of about 300 runners a year and they've got a ballot system where the more times you apply,
00:59:48
Speaker
the more entries into the ballot you get. But they have quite a small list of qualifying races that they will only take those races on the list. It's such a historic race that it would be good to be part of that at some point, maybe, if I'm lucky enough to get in. Maybe I'll join you at some point. Yeah. I won't. I won't. Absolutely won't. Not a chance. Not a chance.
01:00:15
Speaker
Cool. Well, thanks so much for taking us through that, Howard. It's good to get someone's view on the experience, especially somebody who's more like us, normal person doing it, as opposed to the elites that find it easy. But congratulations on finishing it, and looking forward to seeing what you got in next. Thanks. Yeah, I mean, I'd recommend any runner, you know, maybe think about it at some point. It does kind of seem
01:00:44
Speaker
so insurmountable, but I think, you know, I don't know what the dropout rate is, maybe 40%. So, you know, I was watching the last hour, the golden hour of the runners coming in and it was just, I think that's the most emotional I got seeing these runners who've been out there for 46 hours, crossing the line. And yeah, just an amazing experience and nothing quite like it. Well, congratulations and congratulations to everyone else who finished it as well.
01:01:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, to everyone. Cheers, Howard. Thanks, Tom.
01:01:36
Speaker
This episode of the podcast was brought to you by Mike Sore, Tom Wheatley and the guest was Howard Calvert. The music was by Fear of Tigers.