Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Running Shoe Questions Answered: Points of Shoe Episode 3
3.5k Plays7 months ago
In this new series from The Run Testers, the team answers your running shoe and tech questions.
This week Tom and Nick talk about running shoe sizes, how long foams last, testing running shoes for different types of runners, and whether you should buy shoes from eBay.
If you have a question about running shoes that you want us to answer on the pod, send us an email to [email protected] with "Points of Shoe" in the subject line.
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Topics Overview
00:00:02
Speaker
Hey, Tom here from The Runtesters and welcome back to the Points of Shoe podcast. In this episode, we'll be talking about super shoes and if they work for everybody, how long you can expect running shoe foams to work for and what we're talking about when we're explaining shoe sizes.
Race Schedules and Training Challenges
00:00:19
Speaker
Right, let's dive in and do the questions. Evening. Hello. How are you doing? I'm all right. How are you doing?
00:00:31
Speaker
I'm well, I'm well. Not long till the big day now? No, it's five weeks, is it, till London? A bit hectic next couple, because it's a kid's Easter holidays and a bit travelling, so I can't stick in my normal routine, very annoying. But other than that, all good. Yours is even sooner. Yeah, yeah. Well, I had a race yesterday, not feeling very confident about Boston, and I got to the point now where I was only
00:00:56
Speaker
what a week and a bit of proper training left so I don't feel like I'm going to make any big advancements in that period. Do you think it's helped to do a really hard trail marathon and then Hastings half marathon with loads of elevation just before your big race? I tell you what, the Hastings half marathon was perfect training for Boston because it has a
00:01:16
Speaker
It must have been a 3k downhill and a 3k uphill. The bottom hills aren't that like that at all. There's a really long downhill there, isn't there? Yeah, okay. It's not 3k, I don't think, is it?
00:01:28
Speaker
I don't know, but it's quite hard. I think people talk about it really hitting the quads hard, and I've never heard anyone talk about marathon that hits the quads hard. Yeah, I mean, relative to other marathons, but I mean, the profile of Hastings looks, I think you had a lot more elevation in that than you have in the whole of Boston, I thought. Yeah, probably. Yeah. But I reckon it might be perfect training for it. Okay, all right. Go on, maybe you'll smash it then.
Choosing the Right Shoes for Races
00:01:53
Speaker
It's going to be more confident than Tom. I'm not going to smash it. I'm not going to smash it.
00:01:56
Speaker
We'll see what the weather's like. You might get a tail wind all the way. Never know. Yeah, I could get lucky. Well, I still haven't decided on the shoe. I thought you were doing a dolphin pro. Just not sure. Just not sure at the moment. We still would do. I'm still panicking. I mean, I've picked the Met as Peter Guy Paris, and it's going to take something pretty magical from the AlphaFly to bring me back to it now. But I'm going to do a workout on the AlphaFly this week, and then I've got London landmarks half, but I wasn't probably going to race that because it's only two weeks before London, so I don't really know.
00:02:24
Speaker
Like the American paste effort instead. That's a smarter move because I suppose you won it before so you're competitive. I don't know, I'll talk to my coach about it. Well I did Plaschi two weeks before Berlin, remember that, and that ended up being a pretty much an all-out effort just because it was quite hot. Not as hot as it was last year but it was still pretty hard.
00:02:45
Speaker
Yes, I miss Plessy. Sign up, mate. Oh no, it's probably not open yet. I did a very similar half marathon yesterday in Brentwood. Very fun half marathon out in Essex. Actually, a lot hilly than Plessy. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I miss flatter half marathons in the countryside. Yeah, there's nothing around this time. I mean, Hastings was very hilly. I think Fleet was yesterday. That's quite hilly as well.
00:03:06
Speaker
so yeah there we go all right do you want to do some questions yeah that's what was here for us points of view after all this isn't just isn't just chat with tom and nick is it no nobody wants that that's kind of ruining people's day right so we've got quite a few questions now um yeah we've got quite a few questions now uh i've had to vet some of these because some of them are massive and it's just so many elements to some of these questions
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, one question guys. It's like the GP. You can only go in with one problem. Yeah, one problem. So let's do this one. So Ian says, love the podcast and the YouTube channel. Cheers Ian. Thank you very much. So that's how you start it. That's good. You got me hooked.
00:03:45
Speaker
You said on the Q&A pod that you use old racing shoes for hard interval workouts. I wonder if it's better to use an unplated shoe for intervals, forcing me to work harder and then have the pleasant boost on race day. What's your take and why? I've thought about this in the past and certainly I think
00:04:02
Speaker
Opinions on either side are broadly speaking. I don't think it matters very much would be my my take on that I think you probably will work a bit hard obviously in an unplated shoe that maybe that's good but you might you're probably gonna closer to your race day feeling by using a plated shoe and maybe get a confidence boost or maybe run faster and getting a better effect that way so
00:04:21
Speaker
I would say go with what you want to on the day is probably, or I think overusing play to choose, maybe there's an element of injury risk there. I know people are a bit worried about that. Nothing's too conclusive yet, but I don't think in terms of the boost on race day, I think the boost on race day comes less from shoes and comes from tapering and crowds rather than anything else. But you, Tom. Yeah, I think it's an interesting one because I think I use play to choose in training really just because my training is based on pacing. So if I've got to do a,
00:04:51
Speaker
like a 26k run that has elements of it that are at four minute combat pace or something like that. And I know that session is going to be hard. I wear a plate of shoes so that I can hit that pacing because it's very specific. So I know that if I, it gives more of a chance for me to consistently hit that pacing than if I'm going with a shoe that isn't giving me those performance benefits.
Impact of Shoe Choice on Training
00:05:11
Speaker
what I have, I have done interval sessions for this marathon block, using all sorts of shoes, because I've had loads of shoes to test. And what I find is if I use a shoe that isn't particularly fast, or isn't a super, I mean, I've used some like, easy day shoes for intervals, because I needed to, I wanted to test out what the shoe was like. And I didn't enjoy it as much. And I, I found it a lot harder, I don't think I'd maintain the pace that I wanted to over that, over that session. So I think from a training perspective,
00:05:39
Speaker
don't think it makes a massive difference because you're either going to go a bit faster or a bit slower depending on the shoe. And you're going to get the same level of training benefit from it. But I think from a mental aspect of it, just enjoying that run more, especially if you've got a really long run, it's just nice to have a fair shoes on that you're faster on.
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, and also, if you are doing hard workout, you are going to recover quicker if you use a plated shoe. It's interesting to ask our coaches if they're setting paces. I use paces as well if they're setting paces based on us using carbon shoes, but it's like the same way. If I get a hard run, I'll put on a speedy pair of shoes and I'll go to a flat area near me. I suppose in the early days of my coaching,
00:06:14
Speaker
i just walk out the door and run and it would be this is really hard i'm not doing it in the pace as well as because you just run a random hilly course and stuff like that you know yeah so when you start getting really serious and you get all these planned runs you go out there to you know you fuel like you're gonna do it properly you go find an area it's relatively flat because you want to achieve the workout but like you say even if you don't achieve the workout you're probably gonna get good training effects but definitely the mental benefits are
00:06:37
Speaker
Sort of doing it. Yeah, so in answer to your question, well, that's not very conclusive, is it? I don't think it makes a massive difference unless you have really specifically got to hit a base that you had to do. I'd say specifically on the thing for the boost on race day, I don't think it would make a difference to me if I play it on Tuesday, non-plated shoe, then the race day is a plated shoe. I don't think that would be the boost I'm feeling. I think tapering is the boost, basically, because training is very tiring and I'll have tapered and suddenly I'll be a lot fresher.
00:07:04
Speaker
Exactly. And we haven't talked about the debate around using carbon plate shoes all the time, because we don't know. It's a difficult one to talk about, isn't it? Like, you know, does it make more injured and things? We just don't know. There's probably research suggested, you know, that it might be the case, but it's not really our area of expertise. No, yeah. And we, you know, I probably won't use them for easy ones, just because it's very easy run shoes to test, which don't inflate them.
00:07:28
Speaker
And we have lots and lots of shoes, but people who buy expensive, complex shoes probably don't want to use those for training because it's going to be very expensive. Okay. Uh, let's move on to another
Running Shoe Sizes vs Everyday Sizes
00:07:39
Speaker
one. Uh, so this is from Michael. First of all, I really like your podcast. Good. Very good. Keep those, keep those, uh, comments coming in at the start of these emails because definitely read them, uh, first. So he says, I'm always a bit cautious when it comes to the size of running shoes. You often say the shoe fits true to size and that you go with your normal running shoe size.
00:07:58
Speaker
But what is the normal size in running shoes compared to the shoes you wear in everyday life? Do you go up a whole size? This is a big question we get a lot. And I think it's important to say at this point, I don't have any shoes that aren't running shoes. I only wear running shoes. So my normal is awesome. But when I did wear like smart shoes, when I have to go to a wedding or a funeral, for example, I will wear a shoe that is half a size smaller than my running shoe size in the UK. That is
00:08:23
Speaker
But I have two, I think they're slightly different sizes. So, you know, shoes always fit a bit different to me. But I know some people who go with their normal dress shoe size, even for running shoes. You do that Tom, don't you? Yep. Yep. I'm always a size eight and everything.
00:08:36
Speaker
Yeah, so I think the norm is to go half a size up from dress shoes to your running shoes because you generally need a bit more room in running shoes and it's appreciated. So that's why I started saying normal running shoe size because I thought that was maybe a more widely understood term than true to size.
00:08:56
Speaker
But true size is a complicated thing. And we always get questions about size. It's an unbelievably complicated thing. So now I say normal size for that brand because UK sizes are different US sizes, which is not helpful at all. But in general, I think go half size up on your normal inches. But if you're really concerned about this, I really think you need to go to a running shoe shop because
00:09:14
Speaker
that is the only way you want to really alleviate your fears is to go and actually put a shoe on yes because we can tell you what we want in the video but like so i think there are two feet of type slightly different sizes we each like different amounts of room sometimes in our shoes so yeah it yeah it's it's a tricky one and we get so many comments about it because some people
00:09:32
Speaker
in the commenting community that have very strict rules about how they think these things work. So there has to be an exact amount of size between the big toe and the top of the shoe and things. I don't think that's the case. I wear all my shoes in size eight. And generally I base it on the principle that when I review a shoe, I'll say I've got this in my UK size in that shoe. And if it's too small for me, then that's quite an easy comparison to make for
00:09:58
Speaker
clear for the shoes. If you start then going, okay, this size should be an 8.5 in comparison, then it's more confusing than just saying, this is just UK size eight, it's slightly smaller. It's a very difficult one to get right. The other thing as well is that when you go up in shoe size, so six, 6.5, seven, that's not absolute. So some people are just over into the smaller size of that. Some people are the longer size of that. So it's not a comparable
00:10:28
Speaker
It's not like millimeters. You don't have a millimeter foot size. There's only a few sizes you can get. So just using your foot size is quite tricky one to say, you know, is the exact thing that everybody should do with that foot size. Yeah, it's a nightmare. As I can say, my feet are something size. So basically, probably my left foot would be happy nearly always in the UK 8.5. But my right foot, if it's a small UK 8.5, that will be too small. So that's why I always get a size nine. So sometimes the shoes end up quite a bit bigger than they need to be on my left size.
00:10:55
Speaker
But it's like, well, okay, but I'll just take that into account. And yeah, so usually I say, you know, if you're in the middle, if you're someone like me who's on the fence between two sizes, I say which one to go for, but probably I could do it all in US sizing. It might be a bit easier just because I'm a more clear kind of US 9.5, I think, but then even then I need US 10 in quite a lot of shoes. So basically, the point is probably half size up in your dress shoe size, but maybe not because Tom doesn't care about that.
00:11:19
Speaker
Well, the thing that I always say is that I, because I always wear a size A, I test hundreds of running shoes over the course of the year. I very, very rarely have any issues with shoe size. I'm all very fine and very comfortable. I don't get any rubbing or anything like that. And we do get people coming to the channel saying that I wear my shoes too small. Yeah, Tom was his shoes too small? I wear my shoes too small. He's constantly in pain, but he won't admit it. But whenever I see that, I think, well, I've never had a problem with any of these shoes I wear. So it can't...
00:11:49
Speaker
There's a level of preference to it that I like, that's the room I need. So yeah, it's tricky, but I think in general, it's safe to say that people probably do size up half a size in running shoe size, but also probably a bit more in trail shoe sizes as well, because people say that you need a bit of extra
Shoe Options for Wide Feet
00:12:06
Speaker
space. Yeah, and the problem with that is that brands know that, so they make the trail shoe sizes bigger for that. Yes. So, like, Saucony's Endorphin Edge was massive, remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:16
Speaker
But probably, I also sort of will get a shoe thinking, I know it's going to be a bit big here, but it's better to be safe because I can't get a sample that's necessarily the right size. And then I'm just testing a shoe that's too big, which is always fine. But also, we both have quite narrow feet, which I mean, loads of shoes just work for us okay. Like, it's not going to be safe or wide, but you probably have more problems with fit in general, I think.
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah. Well, so general rule is if you're concerned, go and try them all. Because you're never going to know 100% if it's going to fit perfectly. And I would say if you can't get it, because sometimes running shoes don't carry the latest and greatest super trainers and super shoes, go and test a shoe from that brand somewhere. Because brands are usually, apart from New Balance, who are wacky with their sizing sometimes, brands are pretty consistent within their own range, usually. Yeah. And so that's why I usually say it's the right size, same size I have for this brand and other shoes.
00:13:03
Speaker
Okay, good. Right. So Claire has emailed, I think we can only really answer one of these, but she says, love what you do. Thank you very much. I'm running an under marathon for the first time this year for St. John's Ambulance and I'm very excited. Good luck. I have small wide hoppity feet and I've struggled to find comfortable running shoes forever. I've just got a pair of wide Hocka Mach 5 and they are okay. Still a bit tight. I have two questions. One, is there any pair of marathon
00:13:32
Speaker
shoes suitable for extra wide feet. No idea. It's a really tricky one. Can you balance to make wide sizing? I think usually, I would say of all the Hoka shoes, the Mac is probably the most narrow at this point. So you probably could try a different Hoka shoe. Yeah. If you're going for, yeah, you've picked the hardest brand to get. I mean, they do have wide versions of them, but yeah, they are naturally quite narrow. Brooks are quite wide, but
00:13:56
Speaker
Actually, that's a bit high period. Max isn't that wide. It's a tricky one, isn't it? You can't really base it on the brand because sometimes they do have a fairly wide one. I would say if you are a woman, I would look at the men's shoe because they make it on a wider last, potentially. So you can get the exact shoe you want. You already got and try on the men's version. I did that. I think I recommended that to a member of my family and it worked out really well because they really liked to shoe and the woman's was a bit too narrow and the men's was spot on. Okay.
00:14:20
Speaker
Okay, I might be as well, but definitely go and try them on. And then would the Mac5s be okay to run London in? If they fit you comfortably, it would probably be a fine shoe to run in. Great shoe. It's usually the Mac and the Rebel. The new balanced Rebel are our top plate-free marathon shoes, aren't they generally? We always think they're really good options if you want to run a marathon.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah, reasonably briskly, but don't want to use a plated shoe. Great shoe. Yeah, I mean, there's a little bit less cushioning on the Mac series than you might get on some of the shoes that people want to wear marathons in. I probably, I wouldn't mind running the marathon in Harkon Mac 5s, but
00:14:58
Speaker
I would like a little bit more cushioning if I was running a whole mountain. You would. I wouldn't. I've done a car 20 miler in the Mac, five or four, and loved it. Okay, let's have a look at... This one is from Molly and Scott.
Heart Rate Monitoring: Chest Strap vs Watch
00:15:12
Speaker
So they're saying, chest strap or watch for monitoring performance. I can't quite understand the rest of this email, but let's base it on that.
00:15:22
Speaker
Chest strap or watch. I assume monitoring performance of heart rate, I guess. At the end, they've got cardio and weight sessions to basically whatever workout type I do. But just to measure heart rate, I mean, a strap is more accurate. I mean, I use chest strap because if I do any kind of... I know what heart rate I should be in forever. I don't tend to use heart rate that much, but I will check it to make sure I haven't inadvertently changed my effort levels. But I also do some training sessions to heart rate and I would only ever use chest strap for that. I wouldn't trust a watch.
00:15:51
Speaker
Yeah, it just depends on how much you need that information. I'd say if you desperately want to know the exact heart rate that you've got, so you've got the more accurate information, then fine, wear it, but if I get a chest strap, but I don't care enough about, I find the stats on my watch fine for the level of information that I need for any of my training, so. You don't do sessions to heart rate, do you, generally? No. Yeah, so once you do that, I think it changes what you need, but if you're not doing that, then
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah, the watch should probably be fine. Okay. Mark says, I've been running in the Sky Plus for the last 18 months, which you'd have to pry off my cold dead feet for something else. And I'm on my second pair. Due to a very recent medical condition, my gait on my right foot has changed and I've gone from a very neutral stride to predating and slipping laterally in the shoe after eight miles. So he's not asking us for information on
00:16:49
Speaker
his injury and what he's actually asking is can you recommend a snappy carbon shoe with slightly more stability? This is a big question we get a lot and I've got some experience with this guy to make who had this exact question and we basically tried doing all of my carbon shoes and this was a couple of years back for different generations and basically the scale was the more stable it was the less super it was to the point when he said I wouldn't bother wearing this because it doesn't feel like a super shoe anymore even though it is more stable. I'd say these days
00:17:16
Speaker
I think the Brooks Hyperion Elite 4 is pretty stable, but that does come at the cost of the fact it's not very bouncy and responsive and exciting compared to other super shoes, but still a quick shoe. We always rate the Endorphin Pro as quite a natural shoe, fairly wide, potentially more stable than others. And I think my mate has agreed with that, who does need it. So I think that would be one up. That would be right up there for me. I don't know about you Tom, but there's not, you know, the Hocka Rocket X is quite a grounded feel, but it is a soft phone. I wouldn't say it's stable really.
00:17:47
Speaker
No, it's not. I think you're getting that. I think even the Adolfin Pro 4 is actually a bit more with the HG foam. It's a little bit more stable than the Pro 3 for me. So I think that's a good option. Did you say Puma? Which Puma? The DV8 Nitro Elite. Yeah. Yeah, it's not bad actually because it's pretty natural. Yeah, pretty normal feeling shoe, but it does give you a bit of punch and it's light. That could be a good option. Very cheap these days as well. It's firmer, midsole. Yeah.
00:18:11
Speaker
Basically, it's none of them are wide at all with the base. And that means you're just going to spill over that middle section on them because yellow X1 has a winged plate to try and add stability. It doesn't look like it's going to be stable at all. Maybe that could be unexpectedly a little bit stable because it has got that winged plate to try and add a bit. But yeah, I'd say the Puma is not a bad shout. The Northern Pro is not a bad shout. I would.
00:18:37
Speaker
but maybe try to start with those. I wouldn't have said the Metaspeed Skyplus would have been one of the least stable though. I think that's probably in the middle of the pack. So that's already, you know, if that's not stable enough, that's a concern. Yeah. Tricky one. Yeah.
00:18:50
Speaker
It's an age-old question, isn't it? We answered that question a while ago, which was about, will there ever be stability super shoes? Which sort of did the completely opposite, aren't they, of what you get with them? Yeah. So you could look at something like the LES Takumi set. I mean, it's not a stable shoe, but it's a lower-stack shoe. I don't think your foot would move around so much, isn't it? It's very narrow, but maybe just the fact it's lower-stack might help, and it's not the softest foam of the world either.
00:19:16
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So Matt has said, this is quite a good question actually, and something that does crop quite a bit.
Shoe Reviews and Runner's Ability
00:19:23
Speaker
I have a question about how you review shoes. Do you recommend a shoe based specifically on your ability as a runner or how you would expect it to perform for all runners? For example, if you were to recommend a shoe is good, a shoe is good for marathon paced efforts and your marathon pace was four minutes per K, would you expect someone whose marathon pace was five minutes per K to have the same experience?
00:19:44
Speaker
I should look at a shoe you might recommend for slower paces if your slower efforts were closer to the marathon pace. That'll do. I'll look at the other bit in a second. There's probably different philosophies on this out there, but I review shoes on the basis for everyone, but I would expect if people know roughly what I like now, they probably could see some similarities in shoes they like.
00:20:04
Speaker
if i say it's good for fast running i mean anyone's fast pace so when you run fast i think you run differently no matter what your actual speed is you run in a different way you run with a different gate with more purpose if we land a little bit differently you turn your feet over quicker so i say yeah if i say shoes good for fast pace i mean it's good for everyone's fast paced shoes good for slow pace my slow pace might be your marathon pace but the point is we're both running easy we're both shuffling along and
00:20:27
Speaker
that means the shoe I think is good for everything. So yeah, we review on the basis for everyone, like we can't make recommendations on some things, like stability we're a bit not so sure about, but if I say shoe is good for beginners, that's what I mean, I just review it for everyone really.
00:20:40
Speaker
Yes, I think there's a couple of different ways of looking at these shoes when you pick up the pace. So if you are a runner that is at a level where you going from your jogging pace to going to your faster pace essentially tips you over onto your toes, which is what happens with most people at a certain speed, then I think most shoes that we review would probably apply to everyone who's doing that. If you are a runner that is maybe running it
00:21:07
Speaker
I don't know, eight minute kilometres or something, and you up your pace to seven minute kilometres, it's very unlikely that you're going to be going onto your toes to do that. So you might actually not get the benefits of shoes that really have like, you know, maybe a rolling action or some sort of proportion from the front of the shoe. But you're still moving through your footstra. I mean, I don't go onto my toes when I go until I sprint.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah. Of course, you don't do that at all, do you? Most runners don't change their gate that way. They don't suddenly become forefoot strikers until they're actually sprinting. It's more that you might land it, but you might take more steps just riding it. You might move slightly more mid-foot if you're a heel striker, but you wouldn't just go onto your toes at all. Okay. If you're going from an eight-minute kilometer to a seven-minute kilometer, there's not much that's going to change in that though, is there? Just a slight bit of cadence.
00:21:57
Speaker
depends what that if there's seven if an eight minute kilometer is flat out easy in a seven minutes you know your your place fast you will you will change a fair bit like your you know your arm drive changes how fast you kick your legs behind you will change how many steps you take how long your stride so everyone increases their stride length and their cadence when they run for the stochastic thing and you know you increase you increase both of those and you run quick and you probably land a different way you let you put more force into a shoe and stuff like that so
00:22:21
Speaker
I think it would be like, some people might change more from slow to fast, but I don't think you really change your gait that much. It's idea that once you start running fast, you might start hitting different parts of the shoe a little bit, I think a bit, but you don't wildly change your gait, I don't think. Okay. Well, I suppose one of the things for us to point out is that one of the reasons that we have lots of different runners reviewing shoes is so that you do get a bit of an idea of
00:22:47
Speaker
how it responds for those different people. So if you look at, if we all reviewed, say the Nike out of vapor fly, you would be running, you'll be testing at a pace of what, three, 10 minute kilometers. So yeah, and then that would all the way go down to, you know, four, 30 minute kilometers or maybe further. So we, we do try to sort of test the same shoe out over different places for different people who run at different speeds. And that should give you a bit of an idea on
00:23:17
Speaker
how it responds for different people. And I think sometimes we do pick up on things that that you might like assume more than other people because
00:23:25
Speaker
I think an example was a video we did the other day where we were talking about the glycerin and the triumph. Yeah. And you talked about how you preferred the glycerin because it was a bit more responsive. I found it easier to get pop out of the midsole on that shoe. I think it gives me more back because I think the triumph, I don't think I put necessarily enough weight into it to really get the foam to liven up. Yeah. But I much prefer the triumph
00:23:53
Speaker
for the paces that I'm running out, because I don't think I'm really benefiting from the responsiveness. So I wonder if it's, but then it comes too late of whether it's the pace or the way we run, because yeah, we run slightly different ways. You are probably got a little bit more muscle. A lot more muscle. And you bound along a bit more. So there's things like this. So I always think with super shoes like this, we test all the issues, right? We test our different race paces. We do usually
00:24:16
Speaker
Agree a fair bit and what she's before well even if we're running at quite different paces because that's our fast pace And we're all quite I think is yeah, we're all quite well trained runners. We've run a lot of time We tend to mostly do structure training that kind of thing so I think that is quite that is probably one big difference to someone maybe is coming in as a complete beginner and
00:24:33
Speaker
you know, who hasn't done that kind of structured training, maybe doesn't know their paces and that kind of thing. But broadly, we're reviewing for all runners. And there's differences in gait and style and preference. Preference is also massive, which I think is why it's good to, you know, you know, everyone knows now, find out Tom is obsessed with very cushioned shoes. Whereas, you know, the others don't like him quite as much probably. So yeah, I like a nice narrow nimble shoe because I've got
00:24:56
Speaker
narrow feet. Yeah, so it's, it's preference. But I, broadly speaking, I think, I think it's overstated how much pace is involved. If I look around at my pace, in a marathon, people have a massive range of shoes if they're not just wearing the vape flow, which everyone usually is, but if you don't like the vape for the most because of their pace.
00:25:14
Speaker
I do think there's a limit on it, though. So I think when we're talking about runners increasing their pace and training using a shoe, if you are a complete beginner and you've got to one kilometre or something like that, even you going at a faster pace is probably not going to benefit from the shoes in the same way that we're talking about benefiting from the shoes.
00:25:38
Speaker
No, yeah, because you're probably not running at an actual fast pace for you, because you just haven't unlocked that within yourself, I guess. And also, the way you you're running gate forms over time, I think. So, you know, if you've just started running, like you're just running, and it's, you know, your body knows what it's doing, you're not gonna fall over. But I think over time, you get hardened into certain rhythms and patterns. And that's what
00:25:58
Speaker
know, you can actually start to see shoes that suit you a bit more. But yeah, if you went out right now and run as fast you could, you know, like 10 years ago, that would be a completely different speed and style. Because yeah, that's what I mean by if you are a well trained runner, I think you probably home and everything a bit more. No matter what your pace is, you've run a lot, you kind of know
00:26:14
Speaker
How are you going to move a bit more, maybe? Sort of speculation, though. None of us are experts on this. No, she was pointing that out that we're not experts in most of these answers, so just giving you our view.
Buying Shoes Online: Deals and Risks
00:26:25
Speaker
OK, so Mike here says being following the channel for a good amount of time now.
00:26:30
Speaker
And he's recently been exploring finding shoes on eBay. Ah, good question. Due to life being expensive with a small family. Is it worth trying eBay for a bargain? I recently found some vapor flies one and two with around 16 miles on them as a reasonable price. Would you just wait and get brand new or trust the untrustworthy?
00:26:50
Speaker
I bought a pair of shoes with eBay and it was perfectly fine. You can get ones that have that guarantee thing where they send them to a certifier before they send them on to you, which is a good idea to do, I think. But basically, I think if a deal is too good to be true, it will be too good to be true. If you see the Vaporfly and it's, say, 130 quid, that's quite a good deal. It's probably a real shoe. If it's there for 16 pounds,
00:27:13
Speaker
That's not going to be a real vapor flow, is it? Unless it's really battered. I would say eBay is perfectly good place to buy shoes these days. eBay's so, I think it's quite regulated these days and everything. It feels like, it looks like a shop when you go in. It's very hard to actually find good deals, I think, on there. I think Vinted, now that's the Wild West. That's where you want to be going to find shoe deals and then you might get stuck a bit. But I think Vinted is actually pretty really good value for shoes in the UK. I don't know if that's in the US, do you want to say that?
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah. I bought shoes off eBay, was perfectly happy, got my AlphaFly ones off them in the colour I wanted. You don't know necessarily how they've been stored, I guess, is one risk. But they knew when you got them, were they? Yeah, brand new, and they were certified on the way. So, yeah, there's probably a bit of a difference between getting brand new ones is just a risk, isn't it? Are they real? Are they not? Secondhand ones are going to be real more often than not, because somebody's used them. Yeah, is how much they've used them, yeah.
00:28:01
Speaker
much they've used them. So that's the tricky bit. I think if you were buying a pair of Brooks Glycerins that had 30 miles in them, you're pretty safe. They're going to feel exactly the same. Even if they've under-egged that and it's actually 60 miles, it's still going to be fine. It'll be fine for you. If you were to buy the AlphaFly 3s and it says 20 miles on them, that might not be accurate. It might be like 40 miles and 40 miles in the AlphaFly 3s is probably slightly noticeable when you start putting them. So that's when you're going to want a significant discount. But at the end of the day,
00:28:32
Speaker
I think with carbon shooters you can get a decent deal. I'd say looking at previous gens you can, I think the idea, you're not going to find an amazing deal, I don't think, basically on there. I looked and you ended up, you work out the minimum price that people actually really accept and it's something. But you could get a pretty battered pair for a good price, I'm sure, and I still imagine they'll still be quite good.
00:28:53
Speaker
I think almost there's definitely a case. In the UK, this is where it's last Black Friday, we'd looked for lots on the website I write for quite a lot. We were looking for deals constantly on carbon shoes. And in the UK, there were phenomenal deals on carbon shoes. Everything was there. Everything was included. If you had a bit of time and you were diving in, you could find any shoe at a decent price. In the US, there was not a single deal on carbon shoes, except randomly on Amazon, there was an old New Balance SCLE in a lemon color.
00:29:19
Speaker
So, in the UK, I think sales periods, you can actually clean up and if you go to sports shoes, probably running, and you get lucky on your size, you can get a shoe for under 100 quid, even a pretty new racing shoe. But I would say, I think with eBay, it's probably something you just learn. You probably start to learn and get experienced at buying the shoes at it.
00:29:37
Speaker
Yeah, and there's probably a there's a bit in it, which is the shoe that you're trying to get like, if you're trying to get if you're if you're trying to get an alpha fly three on eBay, you're probably not going to get it that much cheaper. And in reality, you don't really need it. There's other shoes that you can get. We should just as I've been bang on about all the time. I prefer the Alpha one to the Alpha three. If you're trying to get a vapor fly one for like 35 pounds, that's a different thing altogether. That's probably a nice good. That's a good deal. If you if you've
00:30:06
Speaker
if it's coming in at that price and it's only got like 16 miles on it. So the big thing with the race shoe is, if you're already worrying about it, you're always going to worry about it and you're probably going to worry about using that shoe for racing, you're going to end up buying another shoe. If you're never going to get out of your head out of it, it's never going to be a good deal. So that would be the risk I'd have.
00:30:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's a hard one, but there's definitely good value on eBay, but I actually don't think the value is that good on eBay. I don't trust it in the slightest. The only thing I buy on eBay is retro computer games. I never buy any clothes off eBay. I don't buy any clothes off eBay, no. I don't buy much on eBay, to be honest, apart from Garmin straps. You do that quite a lot.
00:30:45
Speaker
All right, let's do one final one. So this is from Carl. He says, this is a tricky one, actually. And I'm interested to know if you actually know much about this. I'm wondering what your opinion is about buying race shoes and keeping them on the shelves for months without using them.
Storing Unused Race Shoes
00:31:02
Speaker
Of course, they need to be taken care of by sparing them for race day. But would you say there's a limit for how long you can keep them unused?
00:31:10
Speaker
I'm curious because I think there are such good ratios on the market at the moment and I would like to secure myself a pair before they get sold out. It's a good question because we talk about this quite a lot where we sort of when shoes are at the end of their sale life, IFLI 1s, Softly Offing Pro 3s, probably soonish, and you love those shoes, do you just stockpile them so that you've got them then and there?
00:31:34
Speaker
So if you stockpile two pairs of shoes and then never get around to wearing them for two years, have you wasted the opportunity to use them shoes because the phones are deteriorating? So I did ask an expert this once for an article. I just Googled the article to remember her answer. And probably her answer is based on traditional EVA, which not a lot of shoes use these days. And she said basically,
00:31:53
Speaker
It would reduce the lifespan of the shoe. It wouldn't change the performance necessarily, but in mind, if you see a shoe record, it would probably knock like 50 to 100 miles off the lifespan, which is a hard thing to understand. Basically, stored phones do degrade a little, but I think it's negligible. As long as you're not storing it somewhere weird or wet, and it's got the little bits in there to gather any moisture and stuff like that,
00:32:15
Speaker
I would be amazed if it affected the shoe materially over time. Once you start using it, I think if you then store it, that might be a bit more of a problem potentially. But yeah, so I think there probably is a degradation. I mean, according to this expert, you might lose a bit of the lifespan, but it probably wouldn't change performance. But yeah, I don't think
00:32:34
Speaker
I wouldn't think it's a problem. I just think if you're the kind of person who loves running shoes so much that you stock up and buy loads of pairs to store to use later, almost certain that you're going to find another shoe who loves loads afterwards and then never go back and use those shoes. I have got quite a few pairs that I stockpiled and then they're fresh and I've got better pairs now.
00:32:52
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think unless you're going to stockpile and then never watch your running shoe review again, which will be terrible for the channel, but that'll be the way to do it because I always think I can't wait to get back in that shoe. And then by the time it comes around, I've actually got an opportunity to get back in that shoe. Something else is exciting and I want to get back in a different shoe. It's quite noticeable. Sometimes a shoe lines develop
00:33:16
Speaker
You look back on it and go, that was the best version. I love that version. It was the best thing I ever wore. And then I've had it with a couple of shoes over the past year where I've had old versions. Well, like the Peg Turbo 2 and things like that, where I pulled it out and gone, oh, actually, it's not as good as I remember it because shoes do develop and get accustomed to the new things. It's very difficult now because if you take a shoe that is released this year,
00:33:40
Speaker
and go for a run in it and then can take a shoe that was just four years ago and go for it. It does feel different. There's definitely a different ride to it. Yeah, maybe don't stockpile them. No, you may need one extra pair and go straight into them. Also, you remember that you might have amazing memories of the shoe, but it might just have been a great period in your running life where you were very fit and killing it. It's like when you go on holiday and you drink
00:34:02
Speaker
lager, you know, on the beach front somewhere. And you go, this is amazing. This is the best lager they've ever made. Why don't they sell this thing? And you go, oh, well, I'll find it. I'll find it in England. And you come back, and that's just a terrible lager. That was good because I was on holiday in a nice place relaxed. It's like, yeah. So the shoes might just be reminiscent of your halcyon days as a runner. And that's why I still get loads of people telling me that they fly 4% can't be beaten because it was the first super shoe they had. It was the best feeling they'd ever had on the run.
00:34:29
Speaker
And also you've got the side which is there's no shortage of shoes getting reduced significantly these days. It comes around quite a lot. So if you look at Black Friday, you get to Black Friday, there'll be like 10 shoes that are reduced. Everyone buys everything there. And then within a year, you've got another one and the next generation cheaper. So yeah, it is tempting. But in terms of the actual
00:34:57
Speaker
degradation of the foam. It's probably not a major worrying point. Yeah. It all goes back to my main device, which is always the case. If you're looking for running shoes, you find yourself a couple of shoes you're going to use, and then you stop watching reviews until those shoes are gone. And if you like them, you buy them again. You don't watch any more reviews because what it does is make you buy more shoes. And that's what I would do if I wasn't constantly in the market of reviewing shoes.
Listener Engagement and Future Questions
00:35:20
Speaker
All right, I think I'll do is I was good some good questions from the audience. Yeah, that was great. Please send in keep sending them in. It's nice to have them come in. So yeah, these are these are perfect examples of what we're looking for ones that we can really chat through. So yeah, if you if you're listening to this, then and you have a question, send it to team at the runs test the team at the run testers calm and put points of shoe in the subject line. And we meet myself and Nick will pick it up as soon as we see it because we're
00:35:46
Speaker
We love doing the points of shoe podcasts. We love chatting about running shoes. It's a good podcast. It's relaxed. It's relaxed, isn't it? So other than that, we'll catch you next time on the podcast. Yeah, might be after our marathons by then. No, we might get another. Send a lot of marathon shoes questions in and we'll do another podcast. Yeah, we'll do a marathon special. If you're listening to this and you have a question, just make one up. We'll do another one before we do our marathons. Cool. All right. Catch you later. See you later.
00:36:18
Speaker
This episode of the podcast was presented by Tom Wheatley and Nick Harris Fry. The music was by Fear of Tigers.