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The Marathon Special | Training, Shoes, Tech and Fuelling
4.2k Plays8 months ago
This month on the podcast, the team is talking about marathons, from training and fuelling to the kit choices we go for in the lead-up to the big day.
We'll also be talking about loads of other stuff, from our current race plans to the latest products including kit, running shoes and tech.
Perfect for that Sunday long run.
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
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Transcript
Introduction to Runetestors Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Hey Tommy from the Runetestors and welcome to the Runetestors podcast. In this episode we're going to be talking about loads of stuff to do with marathons. So myself, Nick and Mike have done a lot of marathons over the years. So in this video we're going to be talking about all the things that we have learnt, the types of kit that we use, the type of fuelling that we do when we're at either training or running a marathon. Hopefully to give you guys who are running marathons sometime in the near future some useful guidance that you might actually be able to use.
00:00:34
Speaker
Right, let's dive in and chat about marathons.
Marathon Season and the London Marathon
00:00:45
Speaker
Evening, gentlemen. How are we doing? Fine. I just told you two seconds ago, why did we change the intro? Well, because you were banging on about some nonsense. I can't keep it all in. All about that gain. He's obsessed with the gain on his mic. Maximum gains. Yeah. I try not to overdo the gain, but I do want a gain.
00:01:01
Speaker
Yeah, no pain, no gain. I don't even know what we're talking about now.
00:01:05
Speaker
Right, so this episode of the podcast is marathon season almost. A lot of people are training for marathons at the moment. We're all training for marathons at the moment. We will be doing a London marathon special. We've all done London, and three of us are doing London this year. But this episode is going to be more about general marathon advice, chat, and just talking through all sorts of things, from training to kit to those sorts of things.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah, we're right in the meat of the training plan. Now everything's starting to manage, it's starting to go up and suddenly a load of, there's a load of products I've just had in the house for a long time, which I don't use apart from this exact time. And that kind of thing starts coming up because you get a bit obsessive about recovery and stuff like that. Don't you suddenly?
Mike's Marathon Training Update
00:01:50
Speaker
Well, let's start off with the usual updates and this time it's going to be largely about marathon training. So Mike, what have you been up to? How's your London marathon training going? Training's all right. Like Nick said, kind of it's that point where you're starting to up the kind of mileage. So this weekend or last weekend was meant to be my first long run, but I was out in Barcelona racing instead. What was the first long run meant to be? How far?
00:02:14
Speaker
I think it was 17, so that would be the longest I've done in a while, but I'll just move that to, that'll be moved to this weekend. But yeah, I did a bit of racing instead, but yeah, training's been going all right. I have, this is a period where I feel like people just get ill. Like the mileage starts picking up, you know, the recovery, your immune system is kind of battered. And I'm definitely being more mindful of the things I do around time, which, you know, that you can easily ignore that stuff. So that, yeah, just hitting that point where, you know, I haven't been around to doing this kind of longer,
00:02:44
Speaker
kind of managed for a while but it feels all good so far and yeah I mean Barcelona the half was quite a nice kind of feeler to see where the pace is and stuff and yeah it feels feel good at the moment. So how did Barca half go? All right so I went I kind of was aiming to do kind of around 130 which is not my quickest but I knew that you know if that's where I was at I mean my pace is kind of where roughly where it needs to be. I did 132
00:03:08
Speaker
In the end, I was testing the Hyperion Elite 4, which we've got a video on the channel about that with Kieran. And yeah, it was fine. Barcelona is where I did my first marathon, which was an eventful marathon.
Barcelona Half Marathon Reflection
00:03:23
Speaker
The classic first marathon made a lot of mistakes, did a lot of things wrong.
00:03:27
Speaker
The half was nice and quick, flat, definitely kind of enjoyable, good conditions to race in. One I definitely recommend. So, yeah, it was a nice little half outing. I will be doing another half marathon. I'm not sure which one yet before London, but I mean, if I still run through with me, Batsy Park. Possibly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that might make me. I mean, how many laps is that? Nine. Twenty.
00:03:49
Speaker
I've been booking the time quick enough for that, so I might be doing Victoria Park the day after, Mike, if you want to do that instead. I prefer Vicky Park, I think. Is that more laps? I don't know. Is that eight laps, is it? Yeah. I'll take whichever one has got the least amount of laps. I think they're both 2.5k loops. Yeah, well, Vicky Park's actually quite wide, but I talked about it before when I did it before Christmas, and it was just rammed, but I think this one's sold out, so it's not going to be an empty one.
00:04:16
Speaker
How are you guys dealing with training and
Nick's Mileage Milestone and Shoe Testing
00:04:18
Speaker
stuff? Not bad. I'm hitting new frontiers for me, like I'm doing the highest mileage I've ever done, some new workouts. I've worked with my coach for five, six years now, I think, but hitting some areas I've never hit before.
00:04:31
Speaker
I did about 116k last week and I hit 120, 125 this week and it's two or three fairly unpleasant workouts each week. So it's been great. I'm really enjoying it so far. Like, you know, just how much you can hit of it and all the stuff that comes with that. A lot of shoe testing, which is good. A lot of times test shoes, but at the moment it's going pretty well. Just before I started doing these high mile walks, I did my five mile PB, which is quite fun in a race. And now just long stuff now, really. Don't really go out the door. It's going to be quite long and all the workouts.
00:04:59
Speaker
Wednesday workout, you know, I was half marathon distance didn't kind of realize till I got those kind of everything. So you start looking at the workouts for the weekend. Yeah, you do a park run, but you're doing 10k before and 8k after. Oh, yeah. So it's not a half marathon, more or less. So it's a more that actually, Jesus, how long? I'm also run streaking. I realized this today didn't realize that.
00:05:20
Speaker
Wow, congratulations. I don't even know when we do run streaks because I have a rest day each week. But the way my week now breaks down with it, the day I have my youngest child, where it means that I just kind of do a little buggy run on that day and I don't have another rest day. So now I've come up to 40 odd days now, I think. Impressive. Yeah, but not something I usually recommend or can do. Well, putting streaking is slightly different when you're doing a structured training plan and all the guys run for a reason, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. And getting out every day.
00:05:50
Speaker
Because I basically moved my big workout from Tuesday to Wednesday each week to make time for the kid. And then that means I want to do a recovery run the day after a workout. I think it helps. So that used to be my rest day and now it's a recovery run day. Then we're into the Friday setting. What's your buggy PV? I've not done any races with the buggy here. I'm just meeting local forest staff. It's held up very well against the mud in there, actually. I'll try and cover it in somewhere on the channel because it's been a really impressive piece of kit. But I don't know if I can have time to do it. The one is Preston Parkrun, the park run I do, has got a really big hill.
00:06:19
Speaker
And it rolls, it's quite a short, sharp hill, but it does decline for quite a while on this really nice flat. And all the people with buggies, they're in front, they're bombing it down because the buggies are actually pulling them down the hill. So you'll spend most of the first kilometer trying to make sure I overtake any buggies.
00:06:39
Speaker
back up the hill. I do want to do it because you went to look out the front wheel when you're using it, which makes sense. It makes it, it hits bumps better and it goes over them. But in my park run, it's like, it's a very steep downhill into a like right, right, right, left, what's left turn, but a right angle, you know, very sharp turn. And to do that normally, like in the forest, mooching along at an easy pace, I'll pop a little wheelie and just use the back wheels to make the turn because they're not fixed.
00:07:01
Speaker
But I don't think I should be doing that. I'm going to go out and try and hit a pipe on hard. But yes, I'm not sure I'll do it. Helen did actually run with it on Christmas Day and ran her overall 5K PB. She's in such good shape right now because she hasn't done one for ages whilst using the buggy. So that was pretty impressive. Probably needs to do.
00:07:17
Speaker
a run without the buggy because I think she's a 10k idiot at the weekend. This is my wife. I don't think I've told any of those, but yeah, my wife has called her and I think she did a 10k and both halves were quicker than the higher kp did. I might have to get myself a buggy and sink the dog in it. Your dog's already scared enough of you. See if I can get you there. How's your training going,
Tom's Winter Training Challenges
00:07:36
Speaker
Tom? All right. I'm struggling at the moment because I don't like training in winter and
00:07:41
Speaker
I'm struggling to, something keeps happening every week that means I miss a run. So I got up to 85k I think, a couple of weeks ago, but I've meant to be increasing it, but I haven't managed to in the last two weeks. I had a really bad weakness last week because I was a bit ill, so I only got to like 40k. So it's not an ideal marathon training. All your matters are a week earlier as well, isn't it?
00:08:07
Speaker
Yeah, but also I'm not actually I was really bothered about Chicago and to almost as bothered us as for Berlin as was about Chicago but with Boston It's like I've got in now. I've got the the time I needed now. I'm less bothered about the time and also it's harder
00:08:22
Speaker
than both of those marathons. You've got to be careful, though, because there's a chance you just turn up at Boston. One of those years, there's a tailwind basically the entire way, and you can absolutely smash a time, so you want to be in shape just in case. I'm running as fast as I have done at my peak, so I just need to get some long runs in. Just need to pray for us, mate. Just need to pray for us. Let's change your life. Well, no sign of him yet, mate, so I'll probably use him for, I don't know, London next year or something.
00:08:54
Speaker
We're going to be talking more about marathons in the main section. No really fact today because I didn't have time to troll the internet for really good facts. We're going back to celebrity marathon times. This is one of the most popular features on the pod for sure. It really resonates well with the listeners.
00:09:15
Speaker
Right, so your first one, I had to go through all the ones that we've done before to make sure I hadn't done these before. So Alicia Keys ran the New York Marathon in 2015. What time do you think Alicia Keys got? Alicia Keys sees fast. She does see fast.
00:09:31
Speaker
I'm going with 415. I reckon, yeah, I reckon, yeah, 447, 407. You're way off. It's 550, 52. I think she's, I think she's let herself down now. I think Keys could go a lot quicker. Oh, Keysy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's surprising one there, but, um, yeah. Well, well, you were miles off, so not well done for that one. Okay. Another one of those in a bit.
00:10:06
Speaker
Okay, let's talk about kit. So there are a lot of new shoes out at the moment.
The Rise of Carbon Shoes
00:10:14
Speaker
We've got quite a few of them. What are the highlights this month with running shoes? It's gone a bit bananas and carbon, hasn't it? I don't know if we didn't cover the Cielo and... No, I don't know if we could talk about it. It's Carbon City. We've got four carbon shoes. So we've tested the Puma and the Cielo. The reviews are up.
00:10:34
Speaker
We've got the Endorphin Pro 4 in the test and the Brooks Hyperion Elite 4. A lot going on, Tom. I think I just did my first run in the Pro 4 yesterday and yeah, really liked it. I think there's a lot of similarities to previous versions. I think the top layer of HG foam they've got now.
00:10:51
Speaker
is going to make it maybe a little bit more resilient over the long term. I did find the Pro 3 maybe lost a little bit of its bounce in the forefoot for me in particular. So first work I did now, I was really impressed. I'm hoping that foam and it wasn't at all harsh, which was my big, the endorphin leak, I found a bit broke me a little bit over the course of a half marathon, but I did a half marathon distance workout on this and it was really comfortable like the endorphin Pro 3. Just feels amazing when you put it on, just really like, again,
00:11:13
Speaker
very relaxed, but fast. So again, the kind of thing where you can use it for a bit of even warming up and everything feels really good in it. So yeah, good strong start to that. Yeah. Lots of carbon though, right Mike?
00:11:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, we did the podcast before. I mean, I had the CLO X1 and I had that for a good while. I managed to do, I managed to race in it, managed to do kind of a long math and training running it. And I mean, and it's kind of what I said in the video that's up on the channel is that it does give me kind of AlphaFly vibes about it in terms of the feeling and kind of aggressive feel of it. Now I haven't run in the AlphaFly 3 and Nick is just waiting to get his CLO X1 in so he can kind of do the kind of comparison of that. But
00:11:52
Speaker
I think for me, I think the Rocket X2 was a really great shoe. I feel like this, for me, is a step up on that shoe and I think it's a really exciting shoe. But I think there's been a lot of shoes that have come out in a very short space of time and trying to dedicate the time and we've got the, you know, we've had the Elite, the SCE Elite V4 come in, we've had the soccer shoes come in as well. And I'm also, I want to kind of get back out in the CLX one and do some more runs in it, but it's,
00:12:19
Speaker
It's been a busy time for testing. And I think it's exciting. So if you're into your racing shoes, I mean, there is a lot to talk about and for us to test at the moment. It feels like with the Cielo and the Puma, I think there's a couple of brands there who've now produced a shoe they hadn't really produced before, like a really big, bouncy, impressive shoe. And maybe we've got the other set end of the scale with Brooks. I've only done one running up here and you've raced in it.
00:12:43
Speaker
it feels like they're still hitting the exact same notes they kind of did with their previous shoes still not really got the foam in there necessarily that other brands do but yeah but still charging the same kind of price so obviously we've got the full review of the Brooks to come but I wasn't yeah I was a bit oh when we saw the leaks last year I thought okay they've gone out and they've 40 mil stack they brought in a new foam and they've kind of tweaked the phone but it's still
00:13:04
Speaker
you know, the same kind of stuff. So it hasn't been leaked forward for me. So I think most brands are now kind of hitting a similar level. So it's interesting when someone doesn't actually, I think. Yeah, very tricky. I quite a few people have asked me about the Hocka, which obviously I've not tested. But people are looking at that shoe now as
Brooks Hyperion Elite 4 Review
00:13:21
Speaker
even if they haven't tried it, that they're looking at it as an option where they might get that instead of the Alpha Fly 3 because they're very similar price now. And previously you might buy
00:13:31
Speaker
look at the Hocka Rocket X or something because you wanted a cheaper version, but now people are actually tossing up which one to get out of those two, which is really tricky because if you're spending that much money on a shoe, you want it to be perfect. Some people, that will be their only race shoe for the next year or so. It's a tough one. That's why we're here, isn't it?
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah, very much so, Tom. That's why we're here, to tell everyone, ah, they're all much of a muchness. Apart from the Brooks. Yeah, apart from the Brooks so far. So far. I mean, you rated it, Mike. How was the Brooks in there? Yeah, I mean, it's a thing for me. And I've also been kind of privy to the conversation with the Brooks team, which stuff I can't talk about yet, but they are kind of working on it. And I think they've been
00:14:10
Speaker
pretty open and honest about the performance side of things that they know they've got to do some work there. They won't really kind of, to me, kind of divulge what they're going to do and what they're going to change they're going to make, but I think they're very aware that they're a bit behind in terms of the competition. I think with the Hyperion Elite Four, now my experience was that it was fine, it worked fine in that race, but ultimately it's just
00:14:32
Speaker
it didn't feel too different from what I experienced in the in the three and it does just feel like a kind of quick daily trainer but then I think if you've compared some other daily trainer shoes or quick daily trainer that you could race in it didn't feel like it offered more or from that from my point of view offered more over those and when you're paying that type of money and you're looking at if you pay a little bit extra what you could get or maybe a little bit less it just it's a hard sell it's a hard sell with a shoe like that and I think yeah it's got a bit of catching up to do
00:14:59
Speaker
Are there any saving graces? Is it tailored towards maybe a runner that wants more stability and a sturdier midsole foam than some of the other super shoes? Sturdier, but I think if you were that kind of runner, you might also be looking for more comfort. And I think it's going to beat you off your feet over the course of some longer events more than the other ones that, hey, maybe it will break in and wow us a bit more with a couple more runs.
00:15:24
Speaker
Yeah, it's a big price. That's usually a tip of the hat on Tuscany on the Endorphin Pro 4 that they haven't bumped the price up, actually. That was a real surprise. I think I said on the last month's post of the days of this price super shoe over and Omega sending a video of you, Tom. Maybe a very shrewd move by them. Yeah, especially as they've got the Elite in the lineup. You don't want to end up with just two people picking between shoes very close together in price, not really knowing why they're picking between them kind of thing. So it's, yeah. They're really still. They're realising after two races that they've made a mistake and they've got the other one.
00:15:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that, yeah, when I ripped the outside off. Well, yeah, that's a warm-up run. So, and then that's the ratios, but there are a few Cushion Shoes out, specifically the Cloud Monster 2, which you've all been testing. I haven't tested that one. Yeah.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I wasn't a massive fan of the original Cloud Monster, but I could definitely appreciate that from an on point of view. That was a really important shoe for them and it felt like a step in the right direction. And I think I was kind of expecting big things from the Cloud Monster too. I think particularly with what we see in the Cloud Surf and the Cloud Eclipse and maybe a move away from the traditional on, but I think it's been pretty unanimous in the video that myself and Nick and Kieran have done is that
00:16:41
Speaker
I feel like the changes haven't necessarily made it a better cloud monster. I think the main thing for me is that I just notice it more if that extra weight has made a difference for me in a kind of a negative way. And I think having that extra stacking of the change in the middle, I don't think it's made it a better shoe. Is it the same thing? I think there is. Yeah, it's still got the Helion and Cloudtech set up. There's more. It's a six millimeter higher stack.
00:17:08
Speaker
But it's just one of those things with that conversation. We're talking about cloud tech still, but cloud tech is a fairly heavy and hard phone. So the fact that it's a 35 millimeter shoe that weighs more than most 40 millimeter shoes and isn't particularly soft. So it is a very acquired taste. And, you know, you've got to keep some shoes around, I guess, for the people who've loved on for a long time and want that feeling. But the Cloud Monster original had more of that feeling and was better all around. So yeah.
00:17:35
Speaker
it wasn't a big hit for me. Having the first one grew on me quite a lot, but the second one, I think, yeah, like Mike said, it's a bit bigger, a bit less, you know, kind of useful to me, I'd say. All right. Okay. So let's do a quick, any A-Tech we need to know about? I'm not seeing, there's not been lots going on at the moment. It was an exciting email today and the launch today of the new Bose Open Ultra headphones. So Bose have had some open headphones available in America that we never got to test. They never came to the UK. I don't think they were ever
00:18:04
Speaker
Well, I was talking to them trying to get hold of them They never seem to be putting that much into them like so they also have something in the pipeline They've got these new ones that are almost clip on to your ear down the bottom and kind of sit on the outside of it and Basically, they're going big you know expensive. They're $300 and
00:18:20
Speaker
going massive on audio quality for open headphones is the key and it's this idea they're creating this big immersive sound environment and there's two uh two music modes one when you're still and one for where you're in motion so they're projecting the sound almost in front of you at all times and it sounds pretty incredible and the earlier reviews we haven't got them yet i'm theory minor on the way um but um as we love saying on the way it happens to us a lot here in the uk but
00:18:42
Speaker
There only really seem pretty good from, you know, audio dedicated websites. So that's quite exciting because obviously we have a much lower standard for audio quality as sports headphones. You know, as long as they stay in our heads, that's a big tick mainly. So I'm pretty excited to testing those. I've always been a bit of a Bose fanboy because I've always made really comfortable headphones and their kind of natural sound profile suits my music. So I've always liked them quite a lot. So I'm hoping these would be good. Yeah, you've really got to want some fantastic sound for open air headphones if you're going to be spending 300
00:19:09
Speaker
Well, absolutely. I just reviewed another set of open headphones actually. They are just, it's just easy. I was at the end of the interview was like, I mean, they sound pretty good, but they are the same price as things like the Jabra Elite 8 Active. And those are obviously going to sound better. They're in your headphones with better and have ANC and things like that. So, you know, I like open headphones, but there are times when you can't use them. I use them most of the time because in the house, it's fine. It sounds fine. You can't use them when you're traveling. In the office, I don't really like using them that much. So it's,
00:19:35
Speaker
It does for something that feels like it's got, you know, it's always going to have a fairly limited use case. For me, it'll be fine because I could use them nearly all the time because I rarely, very rarely leave the house if I can possibly help it apart from to run or collect children. That's my only time to leave your children. Yeah, usually my children use nearly always. Let's just say that. Cool. Okay. Well, I think that'll do is for Kit. Let's do one more marathon, slow down marathon time. And I know I haven't done this one. Ethan Hawke.
00:20:02
Speaker
He also ran the New York Marathon in 2015. He feels like a guy, you go, oh, Ethan Hawke will be quick. Sounds like a bird, but probably is like a gym bunny and doesn't do much cardio and maybe isn't that quick. That would be my guess. So I... 4.30.
00:20:20
Speaker
348. I'm back in the Hawkester. I reckon the Hawke's liming. That's a big one. Very good, Nick. 42513. Nice. Really good. Really getting your head around these now. Because you can remember that most people just don't do very much running, and they don't like as much as we do. That's a take-up. I just wanted to believe. I just wanted to believe you put the training in. You really want one celeb. You just ask and he goes, yeah, do you run a 222? Jesus Christ.
00:20:47
Speaker
Will Ferrell ran a 2.22 on the set of Anchorman. I know he did a half at run-through. He does love the run-through, doesn't he? Yeah. He probably is. There's a guy in the US, Russell Crobes, he's to pitch up a few. But yeah, that would be lovely, though, for someone who's just like, yeah, I mostly act, but I'm also like, I also got the Olympic qualifying time.
00:21:11
Speaker
I think you'd know if I put through or someone like that into it. Yeah, good day. Okay, let's move on.
00:21:27
Speaker
In later, or I could in a couple of months, we're gonna be doing a specific podcast on London Marathon. This time we're just giving advice, talking about our training and the sort of kit that we use for that training. So let's jump in. I thought the best way to kick this off would be to talk about the types of training we do and the sort of times we're aiming for in marathon. So when people are listening to this, they can get a good idea of who they should be listening to. So Mike,
00:21:54
Speaker
What's your aim for London Marathon? So, aim for London Marathon is to definitely get around unscathed, but if training goes alright, and training has been fine so far, aim is to go quicker than the last one that I did, all my quickest, which was 324. So, if I get below that, I'll be very, very happy. Optimistically, I'd love to run around 310, 315 if I'm fully
00:22:17
Speaker
fit and feel good. So that's kind of, you know, I'm trying not to put too much pressure on myself in terms of what I want to do. But I mean, ultimately, that's where I'm kind of aiming around. That's realistically what I think I can do and get around in that time. So we'll see. Training is well in progress. Nick, what's your aim for the
00:22:41
Speaker
London, I'm aiming to PB, so I'm looking to run 227, basically sub 228, which is 330 per K pace, 35 miles. I don't know, so yeah, about 330 per K pace, I'm okay. So that's the aim. I currently B is 228, 30 odds, and I've never really nailed London. I'd like to really nail London for the first time.
00:23:01
Speaker
get round with a PB, kind of paces and training at the moment are kind of easy. It's like 4.45 to five, I guess, 4.30 to five, depending how fresh I am, which is not very fresh. And then, yeah, down towards marathon paces at around pre-tempo effort, I'd say. So, yeah. You, Tom? So my PB last year in Berlin was 2.53.
00:23:22
Speaker
15, I think. I know that because it was, I think it was 30 seconds faster than Andy's attempt in Valencia. So just based on needle, basically, because I don't really know seconds, but you're doing it based on needle, then fair enough. Yeah. Well, what I did in Chicago, I really cared about the times. It was like in grade on my mind, but Berlin, I just wanted a PB, but I didn't really have a focus on it.
00:23:43
Speaker
So, Boston, I would like a PB, but it's highly unlikely, I think, because I don't think I'm gonna, I'm basically trading a bit harder than I was, or I should be trading a bit harder than I was for Berlin, and I've seen to retain my speed from Berlin, but yeah, I just don't, I'm not as bothered about this, and I think that might have a mental impact on how well I do, but I would like to get around 255 in Boston. You want to get your Boston time in Boston?
00:24:12
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. And I want to continue to get my good for age time. Of course, yeah. Yeah. All right. So leading on from that, what type of, Mike, what does your training look like for a marathon? What is it? What is like your average week for your sort of plan that you're using? So I'm using, I'm actually using an app that you recommended to me, Tom. So it's the Run With How one. It's the one I started to use
00:24:42
Speaker
when I was training for London last year, and it is a free and a paid version for it. It's pretty straightforward. You build it based on the times when you're doing it, when you're going to do the marathon, and then it will build you a plan. It links with my Garmin. It actually only works with Garmin at the moment, which is slightly frustrating if I'm testing other stuff. I've got the polar back of my wrist again, so not ideal, but it will pull the runs in, give you those recommended runs, give you a breakdown of the
00:25:11
Speaker
type of run you're doing and i've kind of gone i haven't gone for the kind of looks like kind of beginner intermediate kind of advanced plans because of where i've met and where you know kind of playing catch up i've kind of gone for a kind of intermediate plan so it's probably not what i would usually kind of follow so maybe the model is not the usual that i would have to probably do but it means that i can
00:25:30
Speaker
there's probably a lot more base runs in there, a lot more, and a lot more the longer runs become nearer to the weekends to Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So yeah, it can adapt based on what I put in. And it works well for me. It's very easy plan to follow. As I said, I generally will be running with a Garmin of some kind. It can pull my runs through and adapt based on the runs I'm doing. And it's just very easy app to use. I've been using the paid version.
00:25:55
Speaker
You know, I don't have a coach, so I've always kind of relied on kind of training apps and apps in general to, and they've been fighting me before, first time I've used this. And yeah, it seems to be, I mean, I really liked using it last year when I was starting, you know, the first few months with it. So I've kind of stuck with it. And it's just, it's just a very easy app to follow and follow in terms of my training.
00:26:14
Speaker
Are you using the paid for version? Because the paid for version I think gives you a little bit more in terms of the adaptable feedback and stuff. That's what I did when I was using it. All right, Nick, we know you've got a coach. What's your training look like in an average week?
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah, I've got a coach, so I get it kind of week by week, my training, rather than having the whole block kind of mapped out. At the moment, I'm doing quite high mileage for me. I'm up to 115, 120K at the moment. The highest mileage I've done. Usually it's pretty relaxed start of the week because I don't do, the only one I can do on a Tuesday is a buggy run when I have my kid. So I just do a relaxed run there. Then Wednesday is usually a big workout. Friday is usually, it's like a steady hour is what we do. So that's, it's not quite tempo pace, but it will be, you know, a decent, decent speed. And then big workout Saturday usually.
00:27:03
Speaker
or a big long run Sunday or a combination of both. But yeah, so quite a lot of the weekends and Wednesdays are the big hard days, filled in with easy running around that. So it's similar to what I've done for the past, the other work that I've done, but my schedule has changed a little bit. So the margin is higher now, I'm able to get out for a bit more. So it's probably a harder block than I've ever done before, actually, I think it's fair to say. A more enjoyable block as well. It's good to have a bit of a challenge after a few years of doing my efforts.
00:27:28
Speaker
Well, I'm doing six days a week as well. Well, I'm meant to be doing six days a week, but I've got a coach, Liz, and she's the one who coached me to Berlin, my T5, three. So I've stood with her for this and I've got six days a week.
00:27:45
Speaker
Three of those days are pretty, no, two of those days are pretty easy. One is park run. One is a long run and the long runs at the moment. So when I did Berlin at this point, I'd have just been doing long runs, but now all of my long runs have tempo elements in them. So, you know, you do like, I think one of Sunday is 18 miles with three sets of four miles at nearly marathon pace or a bit slow at the marathon pace.
00:28:11
Speaker
And then I do, well, I'm doing track at the moment on Wednesdays, but I shouldn't really be doing track. I don't need to be doing longer sessions. But yeah, so six days and those hard ones are quite tough though. I'm not looking forward to the Sunday.
00:28:27
Speaker
I will say one big thing has always been a big thing with my coach Andy is progression runs and marathons. So I do usually do one of those in the week, just even as part of, you start easy. So it's pretty much an easy run because you won't be finishing that fast, but lots of progression runs where you're finishing at a faster pace, working a bit harder by the end, which
00:28:42
Speaker
I think for me is really good mentally for simulating marathon where it will feel easy at the start, but gets harder as you go. And so long runs, big long runs normally be doing easy to steady or something like that or finishing fast for a half hour at the end, just to put some hard miles on tired legs. I just miss doing normal long runs. There's nothing worse than thinking, oh God, I don't even want to do this by about 40 minutes in and then you've got to up the pace.
00:29:08
Speaker
I did a big half and half 20 mile at the weekend, so first half pretty easy, second half steady. So 10 miles of steady is coming up. It really makes the first 10 feel very easy though, which is good.
00:29:29
Speaker
So talking about long runs, fueling for your long runs. So how do you do fuel when you're training or do you just get through it on whatever you've eaten?
00:29:43
Speaker
I feel pretty hard, I'll say. Usually, there's something to test. Actually, this block I haven't had anything to test and it's coincided with a friend of mine. Well, it's not coincided. Basically, I've got a friend who's a sponsored Morton athlete, so I've managed to get my little hands on quite a lot of Mortons. I've been using it a lot more than they, because usually, I'd buy some and save it for the marathon itself. But now, every session, I'd basically ask, anything where I'm going to be hitting a hard run, that's 40 minutes plus, I will have a Morton drink beforehand. I'm going to go hour and 30. I will
00:30:10
Speaker
I will bring something with me and have it on the way because it also just massively helps with the recovery I find to actually be adequately fueled and then bouncing back to either work or look after a kid afterwards or just know that you were to run the day after. So yeah, I will have three times a week, probably I'll be having more stuff beforehand and after.
00:30:28
Speaker
something, you know, doesn't have to be Morton. I also use the OTG drink and some old SAS bars as well, which are definitely at date, but only makes me stronger probably. No gels then for the long runs? I will occasionally take a gel on a long run as well. It's usually Morton as well, but I tend to carry. So I carry drinks on the race day. I like to remind myself what that feels like. So a lot of long runs, I'll be carrying drinks just to remind myself of
00:30:51
Speaker
that feeling of having the loaded drinks on the back, which is fine. I really don't mind, but it's good to practice it. So practicing now already for fueling. Yeah, by you Mike. Yeah, I think mainly just for the longer runs, I think just where I'm kind of probably replicating the type of paces that I would be doing during that race. So I find it useful to do that and I will mainly do it for longer runs. I think the kind of the runs during the week where I'm not probably doing those kind of longer distances, I'm probably
00:31:20
Speaker
not as, you know, focused on doing that stuff, but I think I would kind of have some kind of electrolytes or, you know, eat when I should be eating, when I generally would be before, and I'm thinking of racing, so, you know, giving myself enough time, and then I would take gels because ultimately I will, you know, I want to make sure I'm getting used to that. You know, I've done it for years, but still getting used to that fact of taking the gels when I need to take the gels, taking the right times. I know it has worked for me in races,
00:31:46
Speaker
I'm just kind of trying to replicate that. I don't do it for every session, but I think generally, for my longer runs, that is something that I do pay a little bit more attention to do. But during the other runs, I will try and do things in and around that time to make sure that I'm going to make the most of those runs. But I think it's particularly for those longer runs for me where I feel I need to do that and really replicate what I would be feeling or would want to feel during those kind of race conditions. I'd better do anything.
00:32:11
Speaker
I may have got my fuelling game sorted for base day, but I'd barely ever use any fuelling. But I'd say over 25k, I might take a gel. It's hard efforts, man. It's pretty tough on the body. I just feel so much better running.
00:32:28
Speaker
if I'm going to go do a workout, I've had a cargo beforehand, the difference in fear is ridiculous. So I know it's worth doing. And it's, you know, actually comes to a point where you've also got to think a bit about calories as well. I was doing a lot in the summer, when I was training in the summer for Chicago and Berlin, because it was so hot, I was drinking a lot of electrolyte drinks. Because it's winter, I've just not thought about it.
00:32:50
Speaker
Well, one thing I do do on the old drinks front now is I've started using the multivitamins, basically Baroque, but the cheap Baroque from Tesco or something like that, and popping that in a drink in the morning. That's quite a nice little touch for the winter I find, getting you a note of it. Mainly because you always drink. No, I always have one of them in the morning.
00:33:12
Speaker
But yeah, some of the OT ones are the ones that say wellness, and it's a massive psychological thing, but those feel better than the test wine brand ones, but it can't be, right? It's just vitamins in a pill, in a fizzy tab, but it feels like, yeah, this is for serious days, I'll have these ones. And then for the rest of the time, I'll be in my test wine brand Baroque. Well, I'm still on the precision field of hydration.
00:33:32
Speaker
Well, I'm getting the ones that are multivitamins, not electrolytes. So I only have the electrolytes for when I'm thinking about like a long run and it's a bit hotter or something like that. These are multivits for the old protect from illnesses. I think that's all right for me as well. Just remembering how battered your immune system gets and I think it's just easy to... I think you've had a good run and then actually you've been fine and it probably hits you probably a couple of days later or when you need to expect it.
00:33:58
Speaker
Yeah. What about recovery then? I don't do anything for recovery. I don't have any sort of protein or anything. I'm guessing you do, Nick. When I'm running, a lot of my marathons I've run probably on 80k a week, 80 to 100k a week, up to now. And I didn't really bother. So now the last two weeks I've brought out, now I'm going go whatever 100k a week. I've got the SAS recovery drink I've had for a few years and just bring it out for basically these weeks. And after
00:34:25
Speaker
the two big workouts each week or the long run each week, I will have one of those. And again, the difference in how you feel is actually remarkable. I kind of even make you think I should have been having it after big workouts other times as well, because nearly always after a big workout, no matter what I do, I've let flights, everything like that. Later in the day, I'll be slumped, have a bit of a headache, you know, stuff like that.
00:34:43
Speaker
With this, yesterday I had a really hard workout. I bounced back really nicely. I think it does help quite a lot. So yeah, in terms of actual stuff to have, I used to just go purely on food, but having this straight off the workout is the other big thing because I get home, shower, get distracted, need to get back to my desk, do a bit of work, all mess around with kids' games and stuff, which is not messing around. It's very fun. But I do that and I wouldn't have stuff. By the time I'd cooked a meal, it'd probably be a bit outside the ideal time. So yeah, this drink has helped, I think.
00:35:19
Speaker
Right, time for another marathon. Please. Celebrity time? Definitely. OK, Pamela Anderson, New York Marathon in 2013. New York Marathon is hard as well because it is a hard marathon. You know, people can really bomb out on the hills.
00:35:37
Speaker
DNF, I'm going DNF. Okay, yeah. Cried off, DNF. I reckon she just partied, partied the whole way around waving at the crowd like a 520. Soaking it all in. Yeah, you're not far, 541.02. Nice, yeah. She's getting very good at these, Nick.
00:35:58
Speaker
I just know Pamela, you know. Yeah, you do follow her. Kindred spirits. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Never one of those in a bit. All right. So we talked a bit about fueling and recovery, but when it comes to training and recovery with tech, do you actually use it? Is there anything you find useful or do you not use it? Mike.
00:36:19
Speaker
I mean, I did mention a little bit, but yeah, I do. I mean, whether is, I mean, this is always the thing with these things, whether it actually is doing anything. But for me, I have kind of leaned on using stuff. I do use the kind of Theragun recovery boots. I mean, they're great. I sit up on the, you know, on my sofa, lie on my sofa, watch TV, put them on. I feel like they're doing
00:36:39
Speaker
something I feel like they're doing something so and the massage gun I think I use I mean actually use it for kind of warm up but also kind of afterwards as well so I wouldn't use I mean I wouldn't use everything all at once I mean like you know in one go but I think like using some of it sometimes I think it has helped me I do think it has
00:36:59
Speaker
made a difference for me and it feels like I'm doing something extra on top of doing the things that you would expect to do in terms of when you're kind of battered from a run and you kind of need to rebuild that system. So I do. Whether it does make a huge amount of difference, I don't know, but I like to feel that particularly something like the boots do kind of work quite nicely and just easy to throw on as well. So
00:37:21
Speaker
And you don't use anything, do you Nick? I don't use anything like that. I have got loads of watches and rings on at the moment and using an app called HIV Training. And that's more actually for testing them because I tend to go quite a lot on feel on that kind of stuff, obviously. And if I'm run down, I know I'm run down, but it's good to test if...
00:37:37
Speaker
the apps and the watches run down or use it as a confirmation bias. I use either Garmin all the time, so the training readiness I think is just interesting for me to see. I wouldn't base what I do training wise on that, but I like to ... It's interesting if it does fluctuate in the way I expect it to. The Aura Ring, I think it's still quite unusual. It's very good at spotting little bits of illnesses, which do crop up from time to time.
00:38:00
Speaker
over the weekend actually had something like that. And that's quite interesting to know to limit intensity, that kind of thing. The HIV training app in the morning is quite interesting to see as well. Just again, all this stuff I think is trends you've got to look at and not actual what they say in terms of what they think you should do. I think that's never really the best way to go about it. But if you know a product really well, like I know Garmin's training readiness stat really well, having used it for a couple of years now. I know this HIV app region, but I used it before as well. So if I know the trends it's showing, I can tell how that really actually equates to what I'm
00:38:30
Speaker
how i'm feeling and all going to be likely to perform on the run i could tell you stay before my workout i was probably a little bit off in terms of where i might expect to hit pace wise and stuff like that it gives you a little bit of reassurance i think if you go into a workout with that attitude knowing that there might be reasons you're not going to smash out the park every single time so i like all that kind of stuff but mostly on testing it rather than it helping me i think uh because i do think it's interesting to test those things during really heavy marathon training when they should be at their most useful but also can come a cropper and just get things wrong quite a lot
00:38:59
Speaker
Yeah, well, I've got used Garmin and everything. I'll get the information back. Well, I think I don't really find it that useful most of the time. I think 95% of the time, I know if I'm tired or if I've over trained. And if you're training for a marathon and you're
00:39:17
Speaker
Doing mileage and you've got specific structure training in you probably will know because you know how much you know you normally do You know how much you've increased it by you know if the session is harder and all those sorts of things so but I do find it useful sometimes as sort of check just to see just to see what it says because like you say sometimes you'll you'll do a run and you may feel okay at the start, but you
00:39:39
Speaker
you might not notice that, you know, you should technically have quite a low body battery. So when you look at the watch. So I do find it interesting from that perspective. I think it's probably useful, more useful people who don't have a structured training or don't really follow a plan. So you might, one week you might do 50K, next week might do nothing. And that gives you a bit of a better view on what your training really looks like in terms of your body battery. But yeah, I don't tend to, it doesn't shape my training, basically.
00:40:09
Speaker
No, it wouldn't obviously because I've got a coach, but yeah, it's nice to have a look. I think the training loads are actually quite good on watches because that's quite simple. They just look at rough intensity and I wear a chest strap, so it's getting a decent heart rate reading in and intensity and load and just to look at that graph proceeding correctly and the Garmin thinking I'm fit enough to suddenly raise this mileage and
00:40:29
Speaker
not suddenly, but raise my mileage and do more hard workouts. It's not a problem. It's not like you're saying, no, you can't do this every single day. It's just about suggesting I am ready for it all the time or bouncing back in time for another hard workout two days later, which is what you want to see. And if you've had a hard day and you've trained hard, you want it to be low, don't you? You don't look at it and go, oh, yeah, exactly.
00:40:48
Speaker
So, yeah. So, when I went and did my brother's 40th pub crawl weekend, my training routine was obliterated and I was an absolute mess because I did it straight after 20 miler. But the watch everywhere will picked up on that. That's not surprising. That's quite easy. I was not in a good way when I got home.
00:41:03
Speaker
Mike, do you use them? Yeah, I think probably similar to Nick. I think it's more of guidance. I think the training readiness is probably one of the most more interesting things I think has been added in terms of the wearable space. And I think it just gives you a very simple reassurance in terms of, well, maybe you do feel good and the data that it's and the sensors that it's getting that information for feel reliable enough for me to say, well, actually, this is telling me something that is going to be useful.
00:41:30
Speaker
I think that's one that I've mainly paid attention to. I wear the Aura as well too and I think sleep tracking, a lot of these devices are pushing a lot more on sleep tracking. I think how much do I use that information? Probably not a huge amount. It's generally on my
00:41:45
Speaker
of finger to kind of compare against other devices that I'm testing but I think the Garmin is generally on my wrist. I think Polar as well, I'm testing it, I've got the Polar back on and I think the sleep tracking is very strong on that watch as well and I think there's things you can take from kind of Polar's approach which I think can be really useful in terms of informing what you should do but ultimately it shouldn't be telling you exactly what you should do, it's kind of giving you a bit of a
00:42:08
Speaker
kind of a rough kind of feeling about what may be, you know, some guidance there. So I think the training readiness is a good example where devices like Garmin's and other watches need to go in terms of delivering that kind of information and actually being information that you can kind of take on board.
00:42:35
Speaker
Okay, let's dive into the big question then.
Types of Marathon Training Shoes
00:42:39
Speaker
Shoes. So, we're going to do a video soon. Nick, you're going to do this video soon, aren't you on marathon shoes, marathon equalisations? Yeah, we did the best marathon shoes a couple of years ago, which has a lot of sections, shoes for different kinds of people, different kinds of approaches in terms of racing and training, and we'll have that video coming up soon.
00:42:59
Speaker
So here, we've probably talked more about what kind of rotation you need in marathon training, which might be different to your rotation outside of marathon training, would be for me, definitely, because everything just gets a bit longer, doesn't it? Yeah, and I find as well that people's marathon training shoes, marathon training rotation, those that do have a rotation, can vary different from what you'd normally wear. Like you say, I've got shoes that I've been pulling out recently for runs that I've not used them for quite a long time because I've done marathons since September.
00:43:27
Speaker
So, right, okay. Mike, what types of shoes would you have in your rotation for the type of training that you do? So, I think the main ones for me, so I definitely have something that's pretty cushion that I would use for those kind of long runs which are, you know, there's not a bigger emphasis on me running close to my kind of race pace or more up tempo race or something nicely cushion that's going to be comfortable, that is going to feel comfortable from, you know, start to finish. That is a shoe that I will use and I will have in my rotation. I definitely like having a kind of
00:43:55
Speaker
Uptempo style daily trainer one that if I need to mix up the paces in a run or it's a run where I particularly want to go a little bit quicker in and that is a shoe that I would have and then I will have the shoe that I'm probably looking to race in and I will use that for kind of my longer runs that kind of marathon pace I would save it just for those runs that's kind of how I would treat it to give me a good sense of how I'm going to feel on those longer runs at the pace I'm aiming for and how it's going to feel
00:44:24
Speaker
those kind of, I think that's probably the three shoes that I probably kind of rotate between for my math and training and they will probably serve me best for the types of runs that I'm going to be doing.
00:44:35
Speaker
Go on then, Nick. So I'm pretty quite polarised. When I do easy runs, they're very easy at this point. So with that, it's a bit of a cushioned cruiser, you know, nothing, nothing stable. I probably aim for one that's quite stable as well. The idea of getting a bit more support as well. But then the work I do, so I'll probably, what I like to have is, it's either a super trainer, like it's going to be something like the endorphin speed, that kind of thing, the Boston, or
00:44:56
Speaker
the equivalent without a plate, which would mean something like the Rebel or the Mac. Fast shoes, that will do easy to steady runs. Steady runs like the hour I have coming up on Friday, which will be decent pace the whole way. My first run of the Endorphin Speed, that's the kind of shoe that excels with that kind of run, just holding a decent pace over time, get a bit of help from the plate or just a lightweight shoe like the Rebel. And then actually for long, hard workouts, I probably would use a carbon shoe and things get a bit
00:45:20
Speaker
get quite expensive in my mountain shoe rotation is probably the way to put it. I'd be using a race day shoe quite a lot with an eye on maybe slashing the cash on a newer version, a new one for races itself. But yeah, I think the workouts start hitting really hard. It would be either the best super track, so the speed is one that can do those workouts or always has been able to do the endorphin speed. So maybe that would cover off some of them as many as possible to save the race day shoe, but I'd probably use it reasonably regularly actually in a really hard week.
00:45:47
Speaker
just because those workouts are hard. There's lots more mileage to come and they protect the legs quite well, but when I can, it will be a nylon plate or no plate at all, just to give you a bit more feel of where you are in terms of fitness and also just take the plate out of the equation. Of course, all those slight things in the back of the mind, you should be using a plate, it's too much, but it's not negatively affecting me so far. How about you, Tom, what do you got in your rotation?
00:46:08
Speaker
So at the moment, when I did Chicago, I was quite strict in that I had a really comfortable, basically the Morvee 3 at the time, like a really comfortable easy day shoe, which I would actually do my little easy runs. And then I was using the Hotcom Mac 5 for all of the training runs where I was running faster.
00:46:26
Speaker
And then either, well, it would always be an older complex you basically all when I was testing for for the hard sessions because when I'm doing hard session and I've got to maintain the pace like marathon pace or something like that. I do find it quite hard. So I basically want all the help I can get on those runs because I don't want to enjoy as much as possible.
00:46:45
Speaker
But recently, for the training I'm doing now, I'm doing a similar thing to what you're doing. So I'm really only using an easy day shoe because most of my runs are easy day runs. And then the three other runs are actually quite hard because I don't really do a long run that doesn't have a harder bit in it, basically. So I need help on those.
00:47:02
Speaker
So I'm basically using old super shoes, so I'm pulling out the Saucony Pro 3s, things like that, older Alfa Flies and stuff for those runs, just because when you've got to maintain a specific pace, I'm going to do anything I can to make that as enjoyable as possible.
00:47:18
Speaker
especially when you've been for like 18 miles or something. So yeah, at the moment it's basically an easy day shoe and then super shoes. Yeah, we've all gone soft basically. We're falling into the loving embrace of our super shoes when we can and who knows where we'd be without them. But it does make you feel very smug when you do do a decent long run like I did in the Rebel when you go, I can use a plate today. I'm amazing. I feel so smug.
00:47:39
Speaker
Yeah, that doesn't really happen very much with me. I think I did one a while. I think I used a super blast a little bit for Berlin for some of the tempo. Obviously, we're very fortunate to get to send a lot of shoes, but I think now quite a lot of runners in Varpana positions do have those older race day shoes that become workout shoes. And then you have a newer one for the race itself, which is crazy. It's big money, but it's still fairly cheap sport all around, right? Right.
00:48:05
Speaker
Okay, well, I think I'll do is for marathon kit chat. Do you want to talk about my UFOS slippers now? No, nobody asked about that. Have you got some UFOS slippers, Nick? These are a big help to recovery. I do love these. Benny left my feet of late. Are you going to be talking about them in the monthly round? I'll work them in a monthly round up. Don't have to talk about them now. Just wanted to make sure I saw Tom's reaction to them.
00:48:39
Speaker
Okay, guys, let's have one more marathon celebrity marathon time. Subject marathon time. Ed Norton. Whoa. Yeah, I bet you didn't know he did a marathon. New York 2009. They always do New York. New York marathon 2009. Yeah, which does affect things because it's like, it's hard marathon.
00:48:57
Speaker
Ed Norton said he'll be mentally full on, isn't he? And he's going to whip it. He's got the build, so you'd think, but they're always, like I say, they're always slower than we think they're going to be. I'll give him a 3. A 3. A 3.40. Mike. A 3.35. It's going lower. In fact, it's 3.48. Okay, so good. Pretty decent. Yeah, it's good, yeah.
00:49:25
Speaker
What did Brad Pitt do it in? I don't know. I don't think Brad Pitt's ever done one, has he? It's a little fight club. Shame on him. Oh, because they're in a film together, right. They're both the same person, aren't they? A lot of people really like that, I think, out there in audio land. If you'd like that, I would say go come. Let's go comment, then please leave us a comment. Right, right observation. I took a sideways look at the facts, Tom.
00:49:54
Speaker
Yeah, if anyone's still listening to this podcast that by this point Christ, good effort. Well, that's good effort. That's well done on the on the marathon. We'll do a pro. I think when we do the London episode, we'll do the specific ones. I might do London Marathon facts, maybe. Who knows? You've done London Marathon facts before, I think they are all. Nobody remembers. That's true.
00:50:18
Speaker
Okay, so what have we got? Send in any facts. Tom will read them. Nothing's checked. You could just send me facts. I'm not going to verify that in any way. Right, so what have we got coming up over the next month or so? I'll do daily trades, aren't I? Finally.
00:50:35
Speaker
Day training is funny. We'll probably do our rotations vids because most of the big spring releases are coming in now. We have got the best marathon shoes coming, some nice round-ups coming. We've got the Saucony Endorphins videos are coming very soon, first runs and such. Obviously, we've been a bit behind the eight ball on that, but we've got the shoes now. A lot of us have got the shoes. 10 race sets from me and TV videos and versus.
00:50:57
Speaker
Yeah, don't need to start racking up. So we've got some pure velocity versus coming and there's lots lots to come lots of content like it's It's a trickier. So I think we've been a bit not as prolific as sometimes just we've all been quite busy and my first Second half term is really it really is an eye-opener how busy it is when the kids home again But in general got some good fits coming out way
00:51:21
Speaker
Tom, you got any shoes coming in? That might help. Not I've seen. I started pulling out really old shoes. It's been a bit quiet on the watch front, but I think that might change in the coming months. Might change. Keep your eyes peeled. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're looking for a new watch, then might be something coming up. All right, then. Well, see you next time, guys. See you, guys. All right.
00:51:51
Speaker
This episode of the podcast was presented by Nick Harris-Froy, Tom Wheatley and Mike Saw. The podcast was produced by Tom Wheatley. The music was by Fear of Tigers.