Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 7: The Case of Jody Bowman & The Case of Leonarda Cianciulli
105 Plays1 year ago
Happy Monday Guys!
Trigger Warnings at the top of each story!
This week we are talking about the case of Jody Lynn Bowman and then dive into the crazy story of Leonarda Cianciulli!
In the first story this week, Lana tells Ellie about Jody Lynn Bowman and how and why she committed the murder of her then-husband.
In the second story this week, Ellie tells Lana about the story of Leonarda Cianciulli, also known as the Soap-Maker of Perrigo. She talks about how she was the first female serial killer in Italy and one of the most notorious in the 20th century.
What are your thoughts on pastries and soaps…?
Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode!
Tune in next week for more bonkers and spooky-ooky stories!
Thank you to our sources: Jody Lynn Bowman | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers The Awareness Center, Inc. (International Jewish Coaltion Against Sexual Assault): The Day I Found Out My Husband Was A Child Molester George Jupin Obituary - Death Notice and Service Information (legacy.com)
--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/scared-but-curious/supportRecommended
Transcript
Introduction & Trigger Warning
00:00:04
Speaker
Hey guys, I'm Lana. And I'm Ellie. And welcome to Scared Book Curious.
Jodi Lynn Bowman's Case Introduction
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey guys, Lana here. Just a trigger warning for the first story. The first story has themes of child sexual assault, which is a major, I guess, plot point through the whole story. So if that's something you don't want to listen to, totally understandable and just skip to the second story. All right. Now back to the episode. All right. So are you ready to hear this really weird case?
00:00:50
Speaker
Yes, I am excited. From my understanding of if I remember which one you got, because we get random cases picked for us to do this. Sometimes we're aware of each other, sometimes we're not. So if I remember which case this is correctly, then this one's a doozy.
Jodi's Background and New Beginnings
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah, this one I actually
00:01:17
Speaker
I went, I had such a, I had an idea of like what I thought about the outcome of this case. And then it kind of switched for me a little bit in doing the research. And I was like, Oh, okay. I actually don't know what I think about this. So, okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little weird. Hmm.
00:01:44
Speaker
All right, so today we're doing the case of Jodi Lynn Bowman and this case was kind of hard to research because I tried looking it up everywhere and there were only two websites really that I could look at and so shout out to them because at least for somebody
Relationship with George Jupin
00:02:09
Speaker
covering these cases. A lot of this episode is going to be actually a interview that Jodi did with Oprah right after this case happened. So that's where I got a lot of my information from. Because like I said, this case is crazy. So she was able to speak to Oprah after the case. Interesting. Where is this going?
00:02:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a crazy case. All right. I buckled in. Let's go. All right. So not much is known about Jody Bowman's personal life at all. All I could really find out about her before this case happened was that she was born in 1970. And then we're going to skip all the way to 1992.
00:03:06
Speaker
so no one knows what, she just lived her life like everyone else, nothing exciting. Yeah. Okay. Yep, at least that's what I could find. So she was born in 1970. Then we're gonna skip all the way to 1992. So in 1992, she was married to her first husband, John Herden. She had a daughter named Sarah from that marriage, but that marriage didn't work out. And just a little while later, they got divorced. And then she got remarried a second time.
00:03:35
Speaker
And again, I don't know this husband's name, but in 1999, they had a daughter named Maddie. But the second marriage also didn't work out either. And soon afterwards, in 2001, they got divorced as well.
00:03:54
Speaker
So now we're gonna skip, like I said, we're in 2001. And so Jodi is, she's, you know, new single, new me kind of a thing. She wants to make a new life for herself and her two daughters. So she moved away for a fresh start. She bought a home in a completely new state and it was just her and her kids.
00:04:16
Speaker
for a while and they were happy. In 2001, or at the end of 2001 I should say, Jodi met George
00:04:25
Speaker
Jupin? I'm pretty sure that's how you say it. Correct me if I'm wrong. But yeah. So yeah. So if that was the same year that she divorced her second husband, and by April of 2002,
00:04:49
Speaker
George and Jodi had moved in together. They just met at the end of 2001. And by the beginning, or by April of 2002, they moved in together. Yeah, let's say like five months. Yeah, because April is the fifth month.
00:05:03
Speaker
Or is the fourth month? I can
Confrontation and Shooting Incident
00:05:06
Speaker
do math, I promise. As my husband and my mother-in-law are both in April. Birthdays in April, oops. Like I said, I got a lot of this case. I got a lot of the information from the interview she did with Oprah.
00:05:26
Speaker
So she said in that interview after this case happened that quote, I met a man named Georgie and I fell totally in love with him. And I felt that God had sent him to me and that he was my soulmate. But Jodi knew from the beginning that this relationship wasn't good. This is what I, there's a lot of
00:05:54
Speaker
There's a lot of she says one thing, but then also we'll say another thing. And so I don't really know how I feel about it. Yeah. So George had a criminal record. He had been sentenced to nine years in prison for battery, armed robbery and drug convictions.
00:06:19
Speaker
Definitely someone I would've known for sure. Great guy. Fantastic guy. Jesus. Right. So Jodi, I know, right? Jodi knew all of this and still continued the relationship. Yeah, but you know, he was God sent. Yeah, he sounds like a gift from God.
00:06:43
Speaker
In the same interview with Oprah, she said, quote, when I first met Georgie, like the first night we went out, he offered me cocaine. And I knew right then in my mind, I was like, run as fast as you can, get away from this guy. But he swept me off my feet. And I knew he would take care of me and the kids. Is that what cocaine means?
00:07:12
Speaker
I don't know. I get a different message from that personally, but. I know. I don't understand. I mean, I don't understand. To be fair, though. I mean, money wise? Cocaine is not, that's what I'm saying. Cocaine is not cheap. So I'm not out there trying to, but from what I've, to be for the record, I've never done cocaine. I just know that white drugs are a little bit on the pricier side.
00:07:42
Speaker
I mean, my real medication is white and you're right, it is expensive. I'm not talking pharmaceutical. Could you imagine if pharmaceuticals got into cocaine? Oh my God.
00:07:59
Speaker
I mean, they kind of did back in the early, you know, the 1800s. You have cocaine. Again, Oprah, you have cocaine, you have cocaine, cocaine and lobotomies. I'm telling you. Jesus, what a wild time, man. Oh, I know. Have some cocaine with your lobotomy. Actually, Jesus. So maybe it might make the lobotomy a little bit better.
00:08:26
Speaker
I mean, from what I hear, it does make your face go numb. If you rub it on your feet, you're dumb. There we go. All righty. Now we know. The more you know.
00:08:46
Speaker
Oh man, don't listen to this podcast with little kids. Please don't. No, no. We are not liable for anything your kids say. We do not condone for the record. Do not do drugs, guys. These are all jokes. Nope. Drug addiction is a serious problem. We may be joking about this right now, but truly don't don't do it. Don't do drugs. We both have lost a lot of friends from drug overdoses and from
00:09:14
Speaker
We just we don't don't want to see that just drugs themselves. Yeah. Yeah. So just yeah. All right.
Aftermath and Legal Consequences
00:09:22
Speaker
Quick side note there anyway. Carry on. So the other thing, too, speaking of drugs, he was a known drug dealer. And I mean, of course, like, you know, how did he get cocaine in the first place? So he was a known like arms dealer, drug dealer.
00:09:42
Speaker
just, again, a great person to have around kids. Unknown dealer. Fantastic. dealer. Yeah, just a dealer. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna again, skip forward a little bit. And
00:09:59
Speaker
At the time of this case, Jodi's youngest, I'm so sorry if you can hear that, that's my cat. I don't know what he's doing. I'm not sure what year this particular part of the story is from, but I'm guessing it was from 2003, 2004-ish time, because that is when this case happens. Jodi's youngest daughter, Maddie, was three at the time of this crime.
00:10:27
Speaker
And one day she kind of just casually mentioned a game that her and George would play together called the bear game, quote unquote, the bear game. And apparently, yeah, apparently Maddie had these stuffed animals and she said that daddy was the daddy bear and she was the mommy bear.
00:10:56
Speaker
And they had two baby bears. And she said that because she was the mommy bear, that her daddy would touch her in inappropriate places. So, yeah. So the following day, Jody and George were scheduled to go on this motorcycle trip with their friend, John Brier.
00:11:26
Speaker
I'm pretty sure that's how you pronounce it, and John's girlfriend. And these two people were pretty close to Jodi and George. They weren't super close, but I'm pretty sure they did drugs together. But Jodi wanted to tell John what Maddie had told her,
00:11:52
Speaker
But she said later on that it was almost like he didn't want to talk about it and kept brushing it off. So John is like, you know, I don't really want to talk about that. Almost like he knew something. Like he was trying to keep from saying anything because he knows more than he's giving off. Yes, exactly.
00:12:18
Speaker
Burn them all. Throw them all off the bridge. Yeah. So now we're going to skip. So actually I was wrong. So apparently that took place in 2002 was when she told her mom about all of that, you know, about the game and stuff like that, because now we're going to skip to January 20th, 2003.
Trial and Acquittal
00:12:43
Speaker
Which is the day of the crime. Jodi was not feeling well.
00:12:48
Speaker
that day. So Sarah, her nine year old daughter went off to school, but Jodi kept Maddie home from daycare, since she was going to be home and you know, and then you don't have to pay for it. And so George was also home. And according to Jodi, George had not left the bedroom following a drug binge.
00:13:12
Speaker
which friends would later say that that was completely normal for him, that he would stay in his room for days after a drug binge. Good, good, okay. Yeah, right? And again, I'll just read the quote from her interview with Oprah. And this is her story of what happened that day, straight from her mouth.
00:13:36
Speaker
So she says, quote, I was doing household chores and my daughter was in the next room and I went to go check on her and she wasn't there. I panicked. I got just such a sick feeling in me. I looked around, she wasn't there. And I went to the bedroom that Georgie was in and it was locked.
00:13:54
Speaker
So I go to the kitchen and get my keys to the bedroom. And as I opened the door, I couldn't believe my eyes. I walked in and Georgie was in my thong masturbating on the bed while watching porno with my baby right next to him naked. She was naked. She was looking at me when I walked in the door and I just remember seeing this blank, like just this blank emptiness in her eyes. Yeah.
00:14:24
Speaker
I, uh, she says I grabbed her, I ran out of the room with her and I took her out of the house. And I was, and I was, comma, as I was running out, he was yelling at me telling me that I better not tell anybody that nobody would believe me and that he would kill me. That he would pour acid down my vagina. And he was saying all of these things to me as I was running out of the house.
00:14:50
Speaker
Um, I got outside of the house. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. It's, it's crazy. So the vagina. How do you, so she going to be doing a handstand? Yeah. He should be concerned about his own safety. Are you kidding me? I was going to say he should be concerned about me pouring acid on. There wouldn't even be time. My hands would be around the throat of anyone.
00:15:19
Speaker
there's no no I can't even fathom like that makes me so angry and I'm like really doing my best to not express too much emotion right now but holy shit I cannot you cannot hold me responsible for the things that are about to happen if that I was in her shoes yes like yes Wow
00:15:42
Speaker
And I got out of the house and the first thing that I saw was a tent that the kids had been camping in over the weekend. I went to put her in the tent and told her to stay there until I came back for her. I know I wouldn't be able to leave that house. I went back in there to get the answers and to ask him why. How could you do this to our baby? And he just started laughing at me and told me I was crazy and that no one would believe me.
00:16:07
Speaker
and just started cursing at me and telling me really degrading things. As I was standing there with the gun, he was like, put the gun down and just saying all kinds of bad things to me. And then he came after me. And when he came after me, I just started firing and and quote on a blower. So Jodi had shot seriously.
00:16:29
Speaker
Seriously, this man needed more than just gunshots, honestly. So Jodi had shot George nine times, killing him. Then she put him back in the master bedroom and like shut the door. And a little bit after this, still in shock of what she just did, Jodi, you know, grabs Maddie, the little girl out of the tent.
00:16:51
Speaker
and goes and picks up her oldest daughter from school. It's still in shock. She even says in part of the interview, Oprah was like, how did you, you know, how did you do that? And she's like, I don't know. Like, I don't know how I didn't get in a wreck because I was like in shock.
00:17:10
Speaker
After Jodi picked up her daughter, she drove the three of them back to the house and they all slept in Sarah's room while George was dead in the master bedroom. The next day, she took both girls to school. She called John, a briere, and told him what happened. And John told her to get the firearms and the drugs out of the house and that he was on his way.
00:17:37
Speaker
But before John left, he called their friend, William Lane, who was the only person to call the police. OK, why what? Well, I'm sure once the drugs and guns were out, maybe she would have thought about it, but.
00:17:57
Speaker
Oh god, our legal system's very complex. Yeah. So Jody Lynn Bowman was arrested for first degree murder, but the charge was later reduced to second degree murder after the evidence showed that there was no premeditation, which that's good to know, you know, like, yeah.
00:18:22
Speaker
yeah i mean it was definitely like a kill of passion a lot of emotion behind that yeah exactly i can't say i don't blame her still yeah later in that same interview with oprah she said that like and this is kind of i wanted to put this in here because it kind of shows there are so many
00:18:47
Speaker
times when you hear of kids telling a parent about something and the parent just goes, Oh, that's not real or whatever. So Jodi said that there were so many signs. For instance, she would get angry at just anything. She would get really angry about different things. And she would tell me that she would be scared to go to bed at night, telling her telling Jodi that the boogeyman was coming in her room.
00:19:13
Speaker
And, oh, yeah. Yeah. And she said that they had just moved into that new house. And so she just dismissed it as a three year old being scared of a new room. So, yeah. And I just wanted to do that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like it's not Jodi's fault. But I'm just saying that, like, if a kid says because there are so many stories of a kid
00:19:41
Speaker
starting to act different like I'm man, it just sucks because I was also just listening to a case has nothing to do with this one. I was just listening to a case about a little boy who was getting physically abused by his mom. And he teachers were saying like he's acting different. He's
00:20:03
Speaker
you know, he's becoming aggressive, you know, all this kind of stuff, he's starting to bully other kids. And it's like, if the kid is getting angry for kids, don't just get angry for no reason. Usually, it's because they're not understanding. Or they, you know, they're not understanding their own emotions, or there's something going on. Kids don't just, you know,
00:20:25
Speaker
we aren't really taught a lot of times that anger is actually a secondary emotion, happiness, secondary emotion. So there's something that's rooted before it. So like, for example, if you feel undermined, and you get embarrassed, oftentimes people react with anger as the secondary emotion to their embarrassment or their insecurities. So
00:20:47
Speaker
If a child's acting out in anger, this is where you need to go, okay, what's the first emotion? Why? Are they acting out in anger because they don't feel safe? Exactly.
00:20:59
Speaker
Exactly. And then especially saying the whole like, you know, oh, the boogeyman was coming in my room. It's like I I get that because I was that kid, not not. I want to put that on record. I was not sexually abused, but I was the kid that was like, there's something in my room like growing up in a haunted house. There was something in my room. So I get that as a parent. I'm not a parent, but like coming from an older person, an adult now, I get that.
00:21:28
Speaker
thing of like, oh, she's just scared, because there's, you know, she might think there's a monster or something like that, and not understanding what she actually means, because the kids don't have the vocabulary to say, like, my dad is, you know, whatever, you know, I mean, luckily, she kind of did, she did say, dad is touching me.
00:21:55
Speaker
but it was almost too late, you know? Like, yeah. And if it's something that they're raised in, how are they to know it's not okay? Yes, exactly. So I just, yeah, I just want to say like, listen to your kids. I mean, I would rather, again, this is coming from someone who's not a parent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And like, I'm not a parent, but
00:22:22
Speaker
if I would rather be seen as someone who is overprotective rather than let my kid go through something like that.
00:22:34
Speaker
So, yeah. And and it you will see later that she did. She was really protective of her children when it comes. Well, I mean, yes. Yeah. No, I don't think so. I got that. Yeah. So after. Oh, God.
00:23:04
Speaker
fuck. Okay. So after Jodi was arrested, she spent 15 months in jail awaiting her trial. And she was facing the possibility of life in prison. And prosecutors, they had, they were trying to prove that Jodi did this not because her daughter was getting molested, but just because she
00:23:32
Speaker
you know, just because she wanted to do it. So prosecutors, I mean, they had no no trouble proving that Jodi shot George because she admitted it.
00:23:45
Speaker
And she owned it, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But they were just trying to say that pretty much instead of claiming that she killed George to protect herself and Maddie, the prosecutor, Rob Parker, argued that Jodi did it because she thought that he was gonna leave her.
00:24:15
Speaker
So, yeah. How do you sleep at night knowing that this person molested or sexually assaulted bad things bad things to a child and you are going to attack the mother that did every quite literally what every mother wants to do if they're ever put in that situation. Yeah. And they would do it unapologetically because they have every right to. It's our job to protect our children. Like, are you kidding me? Yeah.
00:24:42
Speaker
Oh, sorry, I'm getting all heated over here. I'm about to smack this motherfucker, but he's already dead. Yeah, so Rob Parker, the prosecutor argued that Jodi had already managed to get her daughter out of the house safe. And so there was no reason to shoot, they could have just left. But
00:25:06
Speaker
I mean, I guess. He threatened her life and her kid. So she just wants to walk away knowing that she's not safe. And also if he is a druggy or whatever, he might have people, you know? Like, okay, you don't want this getting out. He could put a hit on her. He could, you know, anything like that. And so it's better to just...
00:25:30
Speaker
kill him rather than having to worry about that, having to worry about your safety for the next, you know, however long.
00:25:37
Speaker
however long until he gets caught. I mean, it'd be one thing if our legal system kept rapists and sexual offenders and people like that in jail when they do that, but they don't. So that's a whole different problem that we're not going to get into right now. But I could understand the thought process of I will take care of this problem myself because
00:26:07
Speaker
Yup, because nobody else is going to. I have introduced the problem. Yeah. So the prosecution said like they were trying to, they just went so hard on Jodi.
00:26:24
Speaker
They were so the prosecution claimed that Jodi was the one to dress George in her own underwear after she shot and killed him just to humiliate him sorry so that so that I know so that the the the claim of him how she walked in wasn't true apparently. Well, that's just what the prosecution was saying.
00:26:47
Speaker
I mean, they gotta grasp at straws when you literally are trying to defend a sexual motherfucker. Exactly. So friends of the couple testified for the state that Jodi was not a good parent and that George was the one that cared for the girls. Which I have to say, it was already said that George was known to have drug binges. What? Like, how did he care for the girls?
00:27:17
Speaker
He's on drug binges. I hope that they pulled a muscle with that reach. What the hell? Yeah, I know. I'm like, in reading this part of the case, I was like, Okay, I understand that you have to make reasonable doubt for everybody. You know, like, that's what a trial does. But what? And yeah,
00:27:47
Speaker
I feel like there's a line when you hear you hear about these prosecutors that will I mean, they're doing their job. I get it. They're kind of going after the defendant. They're trying to like, you know, protect their client. But how do you do that knowing that your client was a monster? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of honestly like we were talking about with the case of, you know, the Pied Piper where he knew that Charles was guilty the whole time.
00:28:15
Speaker
And it's like, how do you do that in good conscience? Like, because it's I guess they just in their mind, this is their job. This has nothing to do with whether they think it's right. This is what they're hired to do. But I couldn't see that more power to them. I couldn't do it. Yeah. Nope.
Leonarda Cianciulli's Story
00:28:31
Speaker
So some babysitters had even said that Maddie had been suffering from such severe diaper rash that there were open sores causing her to resist having her diaper changed.
00:28:46
Speaker
Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like none of these poor baby. Yeah. None of these people are good people, honestly. Like Jodi, I understand shooting, you know, the person, whatever. But also knowing things, it's like she is also not that good of a person. She also like it's almost like no one is in the right here.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's not that her shit don't stink either. Like, they all got some smells. Exactly. So, like I said, the prosecution acknowledged that George was not a great guy. But, but they also alleged that Jodi was also abusing drugs and alcohol and was part of George's drug dealing business.
00:29:37
Speaker
Um, which I mean, I would, I can't say whether she was or she wasn't, but you were in a relationship with a drug dealer and you have a child. It does not look good whether you, yeah. Yeah. And this is what I meant by like, I had a strong opinion going into this case, knowing what happened before writing it. And then researching it, I was like,
00:30:08
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah. Where it's like, and this also goes to show you that just because one, they're a victim doesn't mean that, you know, all of their sins are exonerated or you know what I mean? Like just because, it goes to show that everybody's human, you know? Just, yeah. Just because something happens to you or whatever, everyone has, you know, skeletons in their closet.
00:30:36
Speaker
The situation is definitely not black and white. We like to make it seem black and white, but it's a very complex situation where it's like, oh, this isn't just one bad thing. This is actually an accumulation of bad decisions that have led to this bad thing. Exactly. So the star witness for the prosecution was none other than John Brere, who claimed that Jodi had asked him for help getting rid of the body.
00:31:05
Speaker
John admitted that he wanted Jodi to get rid of the guns and the drugs out of the house before calling the police, but apparently it was because he was concerned about the children's safety. So, and like her getting more in trouble, I guess, I don't know. I can understand part of that, but if you were concerned about the guns and the drugs being around children, wouldn't you have, I don't know, been concerned a while ago? That's what I was thinking too. That's what I was thinking too.
00:31:33
Speaker
but maybe they're, I don't know how dangerous this guy was. He's dead now. Oh, sorry. Not John George. Okay. I thought you meant you didn't know how dangerous John was, but yes. All right. So John also testified that about the motorcycle trip that they had gone on saying that Jodi only accused George of molesting her daughter when she was quote, liquored up. What?
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah. So she was drunk. Yeah. So he had also said that she had accused other men of molesting Maddie when she was drunk as well. Like this was not the first time she had accused men of molesting Maddie when she was drunk. Yeah. I don't know. I did not find. Yeah, she doesn't seem
00:32:33
Speaker
wow okay she doesn't seem to have like a lot of that's what i'm saying it's like around her so like i maybe maybe they all were what i'm saying i was like i can't say either way is not black and white it's crazy so the medical examiner testified that the victim had suffered nine wounds including several to the abdomen that were survivable and then one lethal shot to the head
00:32:57
Speaker
And he testified that the head wound was inflicted while the victim was still alive. So there was none of this, like, still shooting him when he's down. This all happened at the same time, you know.
00:33:14
Speaker
So crime scene experts also testified about several items from the bedroom, like sheets and a couple items of clothing, supporting the prosecution's notion that someone had started to clean up the crime scene. Prosecution argued that the crime scene evidence did not support Bowman's claim of self-defense. They pointed to her
00:33:39
Speaker
Because she cleaned it up? Yeah, apparently. I mean, she does have kids. I would try to. I don't know. I would never be in this situation. I would have called the police immediately and be like, I killed my drug dealer boyfriend, but I wouldn't have a boyfriend or have him be a drug dealer. So I don't know. You mean your girlfriend's not a drug dealer? Crazy.
00:34:01
Speaker
No, no, no. I'm sorry, but I could not imagine. It's just funny. I know it's like I could not imagine your girlfriend as a drug dealer. So you feel like, do you want some drugs? Do you want drugs? I got some new candies. It'd be freeze dried candy. Those are her drugs. Those are her drugs, literally. That's her drugs. Oh my God. And also trying to like picture her tough.
00:34:30
Speaker
also just like makes me want to laugh. Yeah, exactly. I agree. And the best part is that she was, she played field hockey and she was a field hockey coach. So like she, she's got some muscle. She's good. Yeah, she's good. She could kick some ass, hand her one of those field hockey sticks and run. It's just so funny because I, you know, she's just so like, you should be like, and then she talked to me like, let's go, baby. That is exciting.
00:34:59
Speaker
Just get out of here. This is probably supposed to end. This is stupid.
00:35:06
Speaker
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. If this stays in. Love you, Kelsey. So they pointed to her odd behavior after the shooting, like her calling John instead of the police and the fact that and by her own admission, that she got Maddie out of the house before the shooting. So after the trial was completed,
00:35:36
Speaker
on April 8th, 2004. So this was almost a year and three months, four months after this whole case took place. The jury returned to the verdict and Jodi was acquitted of all charges and was free to go. Hope in humanity's restored. Yeah. Yep.
00:36:03
Speaker
And I couldn't really find anything else or find out where she is now. I know at the time of the trial that her first husband had custody of her nine-year-old daughter, Sarah, and was actually trying to get custody of Maddie as well. I couldn't find anything about that. I don't know if he won custody of her or what, but Maddie would actually be 23 as of this year. And Sarah would be 31.
00:36:34
Speaker
honestly yeah oh so excuse wow okay my dog had something to say about that um does it get old i forgot what i was going to say because i was very rudely interrupted by this dog back here do you mind she did it again i know what the hell i know
00:37:03
Speaker
She's like, I need to be heard. And I just hope that they're all doing okay. Jodi would be 53 now, you know, nowadays, she'd be 53. And if the drug thing is true or whatever, I just hope that she got the help she needed and that she's clean and, you know, just living a better life.
Superstitions and Sacrifices
00:37:25
Speaker
Like I hope that
00:37:27
Speaker
because she got acquitted of this that she kind of maybe took this as a new lease took it as a second chance. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that's what I have for the case of Jody Lynn Bowman.
00:37:46
Speaker
It was a crazy case. I went into it knowing that she got acquitted at first, but not knowing all of the nuances about it and all of how gray this case was and not knowing actually what side to be on.
00:38:05
Speaker
Like I'm still on Jodi's side, but it's not like clean cut. It's not a clear, it's not a clear case. I can't say I'm like confidently on her side. I would say I'm on Maddie's side. So is Stella, as you can hear. She agrees. She's also on Maddie's side, right? She's like, no, now I'll shut up. For real, right? Where would I talk to her? She's like,
00:38:34
Speaker
Well, she's giving you her undivided attention. Thank you for the case. Oh, man, that was that was a case that was like a roller coaster. I I was not aware of all of the details. I was like, OK.
00:38:56
Speaker
Well, we're going to end this episode a little early. Normally I would continue on and say more, but my dog is being extremely disrespectful right now. Um, and we're going to have to end this episode soon. Uh, so thank you so much for listening guys. Thank you. Oh, SBC out. Excited for spooky season.
00:39:25
Speaker
I am extremely excited. I feel like it's taking too long because of how excited I am. I actually after we're done recording, I have to go outside and mow the front yard so that we can set up our giant spider web thing. I for multiple reasons, I feel like it's not coming fast enough. But also I feel like it's coming too fast, because I still have
00:39:46
Speaker
stuff to write for spooky season for this year so mm-hmm we have oh guys guys we have some stuff for you it is going to be very spooky for our stories this October so be prepared for that I'm like great
00:40:10
Speaker
great yeah that's what i feel like so i was like at one point i cannot wait for it to come but at the same time i'm like please slow down just a little bit at least like a couple days please so yeah just that's all i ask yeah just a little slower just a little more time in the day that's all right so what story do you have for me today
00:40:33
Speaker
I'm going to put a trigger warning at the top of the episode for mutilation and cannibalism. Gross. So. If that's. Yeah. Yeah. So if that's not anything you guys want to hear. So we're going to talk. If that's not anything you want to hear about, probably just don't listen to the entire episode, honestly, because it kind of is a throughout. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:59
Speaker
Yes, and just so you know, I'm not going to go into detail on this mutilation or cannibalism. Like, I'm not going to go into great detail. If you'd like to know the detail, you can find that if you want to. I just don't. I don't really need to.
00:41:22
Speaker
yeah yeah and you know the thing we use most of us should be using this pretty regularly um you know soap because i'm going to be talking about the soap maker of curigio okay but also i make soap but i i make soap as a hobby um but i don't cannibalize anybody
00:41:53
Speaker
Well, I hope not. By the end of this story, I swear if there's any similarities. You'd be like, actually, her name was Lana and... No, it's actually a little longer than that. Her name is Leonardo Cianciuli. Well, that's a name. Cianciuli.
00:42:22
Speaker
Chien Chui Li. We're gonna call her Leonardo. She's like a female version of the... She's a female version of the... Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Oh. That's Leonardo. Well I said female version.
00:42:39
Speaker
which I guess is a female version. Yeah, but definitely not a turtle. And she did a lot of differences. I think she didn't, I think she didn't live in a sewer. Yeah. No, she's not from New York. I know that on purpose. Okay. So this woman,
00:43:04
Speaker
Leonardo, she was born November 14th of 1893 in Montella Avellino. I'm going to be saying a lot of different Italian words to the best of my ability and I just apologize now.
00:43:19
Speaker
How dare you? I feel like they know this at this point. If you don't know. I mean, if they've made it to this episode, they know we do our best, but it's not necessarily the best. Anyway, so Mantella Avelino was a place that's in the time, right this time, it was Kingdom of Italy, but we know it is just Italy, so.
00:43:45
Speaker
Keep in mind that it's old, old times, way back in the day. 1970s. I don't know when Italy became not a kingdom. No, no! You said old times when I said yeah, like 1970s. That's not that old. Anyway, unfortunately, there was limited information because it was from 1893 on her youth.
00:44:13
Speaker
But we do know that she attempted suicide twice. Yes, as a child or in her youth is what they said. And that definitely makes me think that her childhood was not sunshine and rainbows. Definitely worrisome to to attempts. So I do know a little bit of this case backstory. Her mom was very, very, very religious. No, I know.
00:44:41
Speaker
Oh, no, I know why. She was, she was sexually assaulted, but I can't say that until later on. Anyway, yeah. Now we're going to be jumping. Future in the forward in time. There we go. I'm going to jumping forward in time to 1917. Leonardo marries a clerk from a nearby registry office named Raphael Pensardi.
00:45:11
Speaker
Yep, I don't know any other way to say that. So her mother was noted to not approve of this marriage because she actually had plans to marry her off to another man. Which... Oh, the times of it all.
00:45:27
Speaker
Leonardo is later heard claiming that on this occasion her mother who is extremely religious Had cursed them and not like cursed at them, but like straight-up cursed them So yeah like bad juju So with some obvious bad blood the couple moves to Raphael's hometown and I apologize to anyone they can hear my dog in the background I'm just gonna try and power through it of Laria Pontenza
00:45:56
Speaker
in 1921. Yep, that's what he went they went to his hometown. But in 1927, Leonardo is sentenced to imprisonment for fraud. So I don't know much more about that. I did try to look into it. But she did some fraudulent activity. Okay. Yeah.
00:46:20
Speaker
Once she was released, the couple dipped out and were like, all right, I'm done with this place. And they moved to La Cendonia Avelino, which if you remember Avelino from earlier, that is where she grew up. But this is just not far from her childhood home. They lived without issue is until 1930, when the Arpina earthquake destroyed their home.
00:46:44
Speaker
Now this earthquake was actually noted to be the most destructive earthquake in Italian history. It's a very, very big catastrophic thing. This resulted in them moving again, this time to Carigio of Regio Emilia.
00:47:03
Speaker
That's what you just said. So I'm like, wow. Yeah. Carigio, Regio, Emilia. I'm sure I'm making this sound so bad compared to how it actually sounds. So nice coming from someone that speaks Italian.
Discovery and Trial
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'm. Greek, not Italian. I'm sorry, guys. OK, this is where Leonardo. I'm the wrong one. I'm close, but not quite.
00:47:31
Speaker
This is where Leonardo opens a small shop and she was very respected and actually rather popular within her neighborhood. And things seem to be going pretty well. And since their marriage and their location and everything seemed to be thriving, this is where they said, you know what, let's start a family because that's what they do back then. I mean, I don't know what else happened. So they start trying and Leonardo is noted to have 17 pregnancies.
00:48:02
Speaker
Yes, 17 pregnancies. Heartbreakingly enough, the couple also experienced three miscarriages. Yeah, and to make matters even harsher, 10 of their children would pass away in their youth. Oh, geez, out of the 17? Out of 17. So she had, yes.
00:48:32
Speaker
Okay, obviously, this meant that she was very protective of her surviving children. I mean, I can't really blame her. She's lost every child. I would, I would be terrified to let them out of my sight. Like I would. Oh, of course. And
00:48:52
Speaker
Even before any of this, before she was married, before anything, Leonardo had gone to a fortune teller and they had told her that she would marry and that she would have children, that all of her kids would die young.
00:49:09
Speaker
So, uh, what did she do? She went and had 17 attempts and said, one of them has to fucking work. Okay. This unfortunately looked to be coming true in Leonardo's eyes. And honestly, if I'm looking at the way the story is told, it looks like it's coming true in my eyes too.
00:49:29
Speaker
So this fueled her fear and paranoia, like much more than I think is reasonable. Like, you know, everyone has their superstitions, you know, but this is a bit extreme. So she even went, oh, this isn't the extreme part, by the way. I'm getting to the extreme part. We're getting there. Her going to a fortune teller, that's not extreme. I mean, I do tarot, so. Yeah, no, it's not. It's not that extreme. But you'll see what I mean in a minute.
00:49:59
Speaker
it is also reported that she went to a Romani who practiced palm reading and they told her that quote in your right hand I see prison in your left a criminal asylum end quote yeah
00:50:15
Speaker
So she's just messed. Either they just knew, I don't know, or that curse really did work. Like her mom for real cursed her. It seems that like also what mother curses her daughter. Just don't you want your daughter to be happy? I seriously, but yeah, who curses their kid just because of something
00:50:44
Speaker
I mean, there has to be so probably so much more to this story. But this is just how it's been passed down. I mean, if I went to this many people and they were all saying, oh, it's not looking good for you, I might just, you know, not. Yeah, just kind of chill. Yeah, like just live life because you know, it's about to. Yeah. On one hand, if you lay low,
00:51:13
Speaker
And you don't do anything and you just become a good person, I guess. You know, if you don't do anything, you just work hard. You don't really go to jail or prison or whatever. And on the other hand... I mean, she's shown that already. And then the earthquake said, fuck your chicken strips.
00:51:36
Speaker
Fuck your chicken strips. I love that. Well, nonetheless, no matter what was going on, Leonardo was a devoted Italian mother who just wanted to keep her children safe. I mean, she was kind of like the OG helicopter mom. With some, some magic. Yeah.
00:52:05
Speaker
I was gonna say that too. Yeah, yeah. In 1939, Leonardo's eldest son, which we don't go much into her other children, but we focus on this child because this is apparently her favorite child, which again,
Psychological Analysis and Impact
00:52:29
Speaker
why? With Amy Bishop, we learned
00:52:35
Speaker
But still, we have learned that one, don't have favorites and two- Just kidding. This is like a gajillion years before that, but- If all of your kids are supposed to die, maybe don't have favorites. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe don't have kids if they're all going to die and you had 10 of them, 13 of them.
00:53:02
Speaker
just don't have favorites yeah above all don't have favorites because like yeah like you can you can have as many attempts as you'd like to as your body will let you because it's not easy on the body but anyway her favorite son is Giuseppe Pensardi which is the most Italian name Giuseppe announced absolutely Giuseppe
00:53:37
Speaker
I lost my spot. I was going to continue reading and I just kept saying Giuseppe until I found my spot. Anyway, I found my spot.
00:53:55
Speaker
Giuseppe announced that he is going to enlist in the Italian army. Like many Italians at the time, he wanted to do his part in the World War II efforts. This, as you can imagine, did not go over well with Mamba Bear. Imagine having a helicopter parent, and you're like, I'm gonna join the army, which I... Like, I know that all of my siblings have died on you, but...
00:54:20
Speaker
Yes! Hear me out. Well, unfortunately this combination with her rising superstitious beliefs and the fear of loss altogether was the perfect storm to turn this loving mother into the most infamous female serial killer in the 20th century. Wow.
00:54:45
Speaker
So it is believed that Leonardo was suffering from some deep seated depression and anxiety to say the least. And back then they didn't really have the tools to understand what was going on in her head, the superstitions and extreme beliefs to many psychologists today. Just think that it was all just an attempt of a struggling mind trying to make sense of overwhelming nonsense.
00:55:11
Speaker
There's just so much going on in her life and so much trauma. She needed to make sense of it somehow. And there's like, not medication, then there's not. It sucks that it was too early to really help her. Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:29
Speaker
I mean, you're kind of expected to suck it up better. I mean, they still, I mean, unfortunately, women are still kind of expected to not acknowledge our pain. And we do have a higher pain tolerance because, you know, childbirth, but that doesn't mean we don't feel it. Maybe not mental. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So yeah. And it is honestly impossible to know if modern medicine would even help prevent what happens next.
00:55:58
Speaker
She was at the point in a panic to keep her son alive and not go to war. She did not want that to happen. So she starts brainstorming what are some ways that she can help protect her son. And the one thing that she believed was going to work. Can you guess what she came to? Stopping him from going, like just being like, nah, don't go.
00:56:25
Speaker
You are not going. You are not going. No, I would prefer that approach because uh less less uh less impactful to everyone else around. Oh. So she decided human sacrifice was the way to go. What? Yes. Yeah, human sacrifice was her go-to. Now it's unclear how she even came to this conclusion.
00:56:54
Speaker
But I was just like, you know, she's like sitting there being like, hmm, I could write a letter or saying like, hey, I need him at home. Or, you know, I could accidentally pretend that he has like some weird mental illness thing or whatever. But no, you know, human sacrifice. Yep. Yes, let's kill other people. Makes sense, right?
00:57:20
Speaker
Now in Roman Catholicism, it is not cool. Not cool to do it at all. It's actually considered an abomination before God and is forbidden. Crazy. Wow. Right? Who'd thunk it? Wow. And obviously Roman Catholicism was pretty prevalent in Italy at the time. It still is.
00:57:45
Speaker
I'm weird, right? There's also no known Ramani belief or superstition that is down for human sacrifice. So no matter how she got to this plan, this is where she went.
00:58:00
Speaker
So now we're gonna go to her victims. Leonardo's first victim was a local spinster named Faustina Ceti. We're gonna call her Ceti because that's a lot easier than Faustina. I don't even know if I'm saying that right. I really hope I am. Anyway, she was 73 and she would go to invite this woman to her home in the guise of finding Ceti a nice husband. But no one is to know of this arrangement.
00:58:26
Speaker
In 1939, Leonardo instructed SETI to write letters and postcards to her family members, telling them how she was going abroad to visit a man. All of this was to be mailed when she arrived in Pola, all as reassurance that she was doing fine. Well, well, instead, Leonardo drugged this poor woman who was just looking for love, damn it, with some spiked wine, all before grabbing an axe and murdering her.
00:58:56
Speaker
What? Yep. Why didn't she just poison her? Well, you'll see, dragging Seti's body to a nearby closet where she would then cut Seti into nine pieces. Okay, the OCD in me is like, why not make it 10?
00:59:20
Speaker
I know it's bad, but my brain is just like, but it's even. Why that number? Why? Well, all while doing this, she was gathering her blood in a basin, as one does, right? Now, when she was arrested, because she does get arrested, in her official statement, she says, and I quote,
00:59:49
Speaker
I threw the pieces into a pot, added seven kilos of caustic soda, which I had bought to make soap, and stirred the whole mixture until the pieces dissolved in a thick, dark mush that I poured into several buckets and emptied in a nearby septic tank. And as for the blood in the basin, I waited until it coagulated
01:00:15
Speaker
dried it in the oven, ground it, mixed it with flour, sugar, chocolate, milk, and eggs, as well as a bit of margarine, kneading all of the ingredients together. I made lots of crunchy tea cakes and served them to the ladies who came to visit, though Giuseppe and I also ate them.
01:00:42
Speaker
I don't know. Why did she eat them? Why did she eat them? Why? She knows what they're... She knows what's in there. Dude, somebody was probably like, oh my god, these are the best things I've ever had. They seem to love this. I have to try that.
01:01:06
Speaker
but oh my God, these are the best things I've ever had. And then she's like, okay, yo, I gotta call, I gotta try them. I gotta try them, hang on a second. Did I actually do something here? Why? Why? I understand, not understand, but I get, I guess, like feeding them to other people or whatever and being like, oh, I'm not gonna eat them. I don't even understand giving them to other people. Like, oh my God, why make them into food at all? But then you eat them, but then you do.
01:01:36
Speaker
shut up no i don't know exactly i'm like okay i guess i get the like if you're going to do it i get feeding it to other people because you're like i don't want to eat that i guess i i don't know i don't know i hate it i hate it i hate it
01:01:59
Speaker
Leonardo is also reported to have taken SETI's life savings of 30,000 Italian lira which which as of 2020 was 332 dollars which doesn't seem like that much because exactly they discontinued the Italian lira in 2004 so it turned into the euro so it never really experienced a lot of the inflation that
01:02:28
Speaker
currencies that are used nowadays experience. So the conversion is a little funky. Okay. Roughly a year later on September 5th of 1940, Leonardo finds another victim named Francesca Sayavi Suavi Suavi
01:02:55
Speaker
And for those of you that can't see, she's looking around confused. Because that's what I'm... Yep, that's what I'm doing. Very confused. So we're gonna call her, uh, S-O-A-V-I. Right? S-O-A-V-I. Oh no.
01:03:21
Speaker
It's not going to be Suavi. There is a day spa and a soap manufacturer called Suavi Soaps. Oh, it's spelled the same. Oh, no. Is it made in Italy? No, S-O-A-V-I. OK, that's actually a lot better. It's like Russian or something like that. Like it's it's in.
01:03:49
Speaker
Anyway, so just as with Seti, she tells Sawavi that there is a man waiting for her and that she needs to go abroad and that everything's organized. All she has to do is send correspondence informing her family and friends of the upcoming trip. And again, she's drugged, axed, cut up, cooked, and served.
01:04:11
Speaker
Hello, this time, Leonardo is said to have only gotten 3,000 lira from this arrangement. So not as much of a plunder, I guess. She still fucking killed her and cooked her. Anyway, we're going to go to her final victim. Leonardo found a woman named Virginia Cacioppo. Cacioppo. Cacioppo?
01:04:40
Speaker
I found a picture of Swavi so- Literally it's like their version of Suave. Yeah. Or like Dove. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. So, oops.
01:04:57
Speaker
I think I say the last name. I'm not sure. She's 53, and she was a former soprano who is said to have sung in La Scala, which is an old theater that has had some of the world's greatest opera singers on its stage. Very, very old, and it's really pretty. I looked it up, but I don't know much about opera. Now, Leonardo switched it up on her.
01:05:26
Speaker
She didn't offer her a man. She instead offered her a secretary position working for a mysterious impresario from France.
01:05:38
Speaker
Because because you know that this this girl Virginia not from France from Florence, but yes Because you know this lady She already had a career. She's like, I don't need no man. It's fine. I don't need him exactly Well, she didn't have a she she was actually married So how what you can't offer a man to a married woman so she offered a job instead and
01:06:08
Speaker
Now I had to figure out what an impresario is. It's essentially like a movie producer, but for theaters instead of movies. So she was instructed to tell no one where she was going.
01:06:22
Speaker
And apparently no one at the time finds that as a red flag. Uh, I would have immediately, but that's whatever. That's what I was going to say. That's what I was going to say.
Reflective Discussion
01:06:32
Speaker
Like if someone tells you, and this is anytime, if someone tells you do not tell because of this amazing opportunity or whatever it is, don't do it. It's huge. If it's not a murderer, it's a scam. Yeah. You should be able to at least tell one person.
01:06:51
Speaker
And if there's like an NDA Yeah, and like NDAs even have limits right like you you you can still see you know, yeah, anyway So she was instructed to tell no one right Virginia agreed and on September 30th of 1940 the pattern of killings continued However, according to Leonardo's statement another quote from her we love when she talks, right?
01:07:19
Speaker
quote, she ended up in the pot. Yeah. Wonder how that happened. Sorry. Okay. I need to go. Just like the other two, her flesh was fat and white. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. You're saying right now, that's like my brain. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no, please. Oh God. Oh no. Oh no.
01:07:49
Speaker
Okay, I'm gonna try and go fast. When it had melted, I added a bottle of cologne, and after a long time on the boil, I was able to make some most acceptable creamy soap. I gave bars to neighbors and acquaintances. Oh my God, I'm gonna throw up. Oh God, you guys can't see Lana's face. I'm gonna throw up. Oh my God. I'm sorry. We're almost done. I have to take a shower after this. We're almost done with her quote.
01:08:20
Speaker
I was even thinking I was like, oh, maybe I'll. Oh, well, my husband's getting dinner. I'll like maybe take a nice quick shower before I have to go back to researching and stuff like that. Why? But don't worry. The cakes, too, were better. The woman was really sweet. God. End quote.
01:08:48
Speaker
I'm going to throw up. Oh my God. OK, we're going to move right past this. OK, we're moving past. As payment for Leonardo's services, she received 50,000 lira, assorted jewels, and public bonds. She went to even sell Virginia's clothes and shoes. This lady. This lady. You're good. We're good. It's fine.
01:09:19
Speaker
Virginia's sister-in-law, she noticed the absence and started to grow suspicious of her sudden disappearance.
01:09:39
Speaker
She had last seen her entering Leonardo's home, so she went to the superintendent of police of Rizio Amelia with her fears, and this resulted in an investigation. And not too long after the investigation started, Leonardo is arrested. Wait.
01:10:06
Speaker
Tale as old as time, damn it. She did not confess to the murders until they began to believe that her son may be. Yeah, yeah, they started to think, oh, maybe her son had something to do with it.
01:10:31
Speaker
She said, nope. And she quickly confessed to the murders. Not my son. The whole reason I did all of this was to protect him. I don't know why he went to American or women. But also, I'm like, why is it every I don't know. Every every interpretation I do is the same.
01:10:54
Speaker
Do you want some peanut brittle? It's the same sound. It's the same voice every night. Every impression is the same voice. You want some peanut brittle? We just have to figure out. I'm also an Italian 20 year old. We need to figure out the Italian. I'm an Italian 20 year old son.
01:11:23
Speaker
Oh no. Oh god. They all sound the same. So because her son was being accused, she quickly spilled all of the beans, detailed accounts, how it all began, everything. Leonardo was tried for the murders in Rizio Emilia in 1946.
01:11:47
Speaker
all this time showing no remorse for any of her acts. Going as far as correcting the official account while on stand. Yeah, excuse me. If you're going to talk shit about me, at least get it right. Okay. And this is a quote from a newspaper this time, not from her.
01:12:14
Speaker
well it's partially her but it's not it was in the newspaper so we're okay quote newspaper at her trial in regio amelia last week poetus leonarda gripped the witness stand rail with oddly delicate hands and calmly set
01:12:33
Speaker
and then after that she said she set the prosecutor right on certain details her deep dark eyes gleamed with a wild inner pride as she concluded
01:12:49
Speaker
I gave the copper ladle, which I used to skim the fat off the kettles, to my country, which was so badly in need of metal during the last days of the war. She was like, it's because I'm so nice. I gave my murder ladle up.
01:13:15
Speaker
Praise. I deserve praise. Again, she's like, it's because I'm so nice. Shut the fuck up. Of course. Shockingly, Leonardo was found guilty of her crimes and sentenced the 30 years in prison. And guess what? Not only 30 years in prison, but she also had to spend three years in a criminal asylum.
01:13:43
Speaker
The Romani palm reader was right. What? Yes, and this is this asylum is right, is where she passed away from a stroke on October 15th of 1970. Oh, also, was she born? Oh, no, she was born November 14th. Just kidding. That is crazy. Yeah, at the age of 76. So she wasn't super old, but a lot longer than I expect her to live.
01:14:12
Speaker
And I almost forgot to add a very important part of this. Now the reason she did all of this fell back down to the fact that she was extremely superstitious, right? And she also was sexually assaulted growing up. What? Yes, so her superstitions were rooted in her assault.
01:14:41
Speaker
Yeah, that sucks. It does. It does. It does. And her mother was not necessarily very supportive, as you can imagine. Because at that time period, it's Oh, you asked for it. Yeah, yeah.
01:15:05
Speaker
I mean, I don't even know if they even thought even once about how she could be feeling about the situation. It's all about saving face, right? So I looked it up and the reason she actually married the husband was because that's who sexually assaulted her.
01:15:31
Speaker
And so they made her get married to him. So Raphael. Yeah, they made her get married to him. And that's why they didn't like him. Well, that explains a lot. And I did not know that tidbit. Yeah. So that makes it even worse. And then the fact that she curses them.
01:16:00
Speaker
Why curse him? Curse him, not her. Yeah. Oh, goodness. But anyway, this is... And that is the shocking story of the soap maker of Carigio. Leonardo Cianciulli? Cianciulli? Yeah. Wow. That is a case. My dog is losing her shit out there on a squeaky toy.
01:16:29
Speaker
she can't believe it either yeah she can't i can't believe it i don't want to throw up yeah it's gross could you imagine finding out after the fact and then like oh my god i had one of her pastries and i also watched
01:16:47
Speaker
god god also i was looking up a little bit about this case yeah and um apparently she was known for making soaps like that's why people were like oh yeah it's fine like when she uh when she lived before the before the the earthquake where she had her shop earthquake yeah yeah that was all soap stuff and so like so she was trusted
01:17:17
Speaker
She was trusted at making soaps. I mean, she at least knew what she was doing. And as morbid and gross and not bueno, soaps are made out of fat, aren't they? Yes, they are, but not that. Not that kind of fat, not human. No, like you put lye and fat. A lot more than caustic soda. Yeah.
01:17:46
Speaker
Yeah, maybe back then it was like very limit like maybe it's just a different type of soap than we're used to now but I can't I know I make soaps but I cannot but yeah, I mean I know I make soaps and I I don't I don't know I It's just gross I can't think of I can't think of what goes into soap right now because all I can think of is that soap Yeah, yeah I make soaps and I bake
01:18:16
Speaker
So like, am I gonna do that? Yeah, well, as long as it's not people. Oh, you better not be. You're my co-host. You're not trying to be a topic, okay? No. I mean, I already want to live like the little witch of the woods that I am, so. Yeah, yeah, let's just end that there, though.
01:18:43
Speaker
Anyway, that is the fucking bonkers story. I know, isn't it? Wild. I hate it. I hate it so much. I do too. I've had all range of emotions today when it came from
01:19:00
Speaker
being sad because like okay so we batch film or we batch record and so some stories yes I have almost cried at and this story I've almost thrown up at and I just feel like I've had the most wide wide away of emotions today with stories so thank you so much for keeping me on my goddamn toes Jesus oh yeah I got you
01:19:28
Speaker
Jesus. Sad thing is I feel like I need to take a shower now. No! No, no, you need soap for that. God. God damn it. All right. Oh, feel ready. Well, thank you for listening, guys, and SBC out. SBC out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for sticking to the end, really.
01:19:58
Speaker
Phew, SBC out.
01:20:12
Speaker
Alrighty, I just want to say thank you for listening and I hope you guys were scared but still curious. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at ScaredButCuriousPod. And if you have any personal stories that you would love for us to cover or any cases that you don't hear enough about, just shoot us an email at gmail. Just ScaredButCuriousPod at gmail.com. Anyway, thanks for listening, guys. Yep, love your ScaredButCurious.