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Let's Talk Thunderbolts! | IS MARVEL REALLY BACK?!
12 Plays2 months ago
So many media outlets and people said..."MARVEL IS BACK!" after Thunderbolts came out opening weekend.
Today Mel and Rod are going to tell you if they believe this to be true. They talk about their overall opinion of the film, what worked and didn't work. What their fears are going into Avengers Doomsday and they even talk about Captain America: A Brave New World...more than they expected.
Coming next WEEK: Andor Season 2 Review
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Transcript
Introduction to Beyond the Shot and Thunderbolts
00:00:00
Speaker
Okay, wait, what's the name of our podcast? Beyond the Shot. Oh, we go again with this shit. Beyond the Shot. We had a little bit of a blooper. I didn't know what the name of our podcast was.
00:00:13
Speaker
I think I had said like Beyond the Pod or something. Yeah, Beyond the Pod. Which I mean... shot pod could be an easy and was just saying it could see that happening it could happen right and i just was talking really fast and then didn't realize and then it took me like three minutes to record the intro because laughing so hard but yeah it's melody and rodney and we are back today with another episode we are going to be chatting about Thunderbolts
Comparing Thunderbolts and Captain America: Brave New World
00:00:37
Speaker
today. ah Rodney and I have both watched it in the last two weeks. Um, since it's two weeks, it's been two weeks, two weeks since it came out. So, uh, we kind of wanted to chat with you guys about that today.
00:00:49
Speaker
So overall, let's just kind of give, I'll go first. I'll kind of gave my overall like thoughts and a score, I guess. And then Rodney will do it. Uh, but pretty much my overall thoughts were it was a million times better than captain America.
00:01:03
Speaker
What is it called? Brave new world. Yeah. I have, we we didn't talk about that movie on this podcast because I was, Rodney saw it in the movie theater. I just saw it like a couple weeks ago before Thunderbolts. Cause I was like, okay, I should probably see that before Thunderbolts. I was that interested in seeing that movie when it came out. I was kind of like, eh, not really calling my attention.
00:01:20
Speaker
Seems kind of bland. Watched it, did not like it. I am one of those people. I was like, I am not for this movie. I just didn't get it. I don't understand why they made that movie. I didn't like it. I was kind of like, I and i take them back i liked moments.
Expectations and Performances in Thunderbolts
00:01:34
Speaker
There were some strong moments, but then overall as a film, I just really, i i don't think I need to watch that movie again. But- Going into Thunderbolts, you know, there's everything out there, the media, everyone saying this is gonna, be this is the, we're back, we're back, baby, right? You know, that was the big thing.
00:01:52
Speaker
And no, when a lot of people come out saying that, it puts it puts an expectation, unfortunately, on movies, right? You expect it to be amazing. You expect it to be top tier Marvel, you know, Infinity War, Captain America, Winter Soldier, like, you know, some really, really great films.
00:02:13
Speaker
um even Iron Man 1, which I think is still one of my favorites. I love Iron Man 1. Kudos. Agree. still Still holds up to this day. To this day, holds up well. Really, really well. So good.
00:02:24
Speaker
um So when I watched it, I was like, okay, let's – Ronnie had kind of got went and watched it before me, kind of warned me a little bit, though. He said, you know, i don't think it's as as hyped as it should be.
00:02:37
Speaker
So I was like, okay, great. Let me lower my expectations a little. And I did. And I enjoyed the movie. I have to say, I i think we are in the step in the right direction from some other things that we have seen in the last couple of years.
00:02:51
Speaker
I do think there were some moons some moments that really reminded me of that Marvel, of that, you know, Avengers-esque thing. kind of moments, you know, that like introduction of characters that you were like, Oh, my God, they're back. You know, it was really, really cool to see that I did have the feels like I was like, Oh, okay, like, I like what this is making me feel, which of course, you know, is a big theme of our podcast of how movies make us feel.
00:03:16
Speaker
And there were some moments that I really felt things in this, I think, overall, I think the movie was really fun and it and it was good I do think that there is still room for improvement which we'll talk about um I do think there were also some really great standouts in this film I do really think that Florence Pugh is really and don't know how Ronnie feels about it but for me Florence Pugh really was leading the charge in this film i I do love her I love her as an actress I think she's fantastic she's a very good actress she's very good in this role um and she had some really great moments as well as um
00:03:49
Speaker
David Harper, I think, who plays the Red Guardian. I absolutely love him. I think he is chewing this role up and he is he is there for a good time. I swear, like anytime he was on screen, I felt like,
00:04:01
Speaker
he like, it's not that he called it in. I wouldn't say like, oh I'm just here for a paycheck, but it's just like, he's just, he knows his character. He likes playing his character and he's just having fun. Like there's nothing, anytime he was on screen, I never felt like it was like he was acting. It was like, he was just like, just being the red guardian. And it
Actors' Legacies and Villains in Marvel
00:04:20
Speaker
was so great to see.
00:04:21
Speaker
Um, And as a whole, as the group of the Thunderbolts, I think they had good chemistry together. i I liked the banter. i liked all that. The Bob thing we'll talk about because I'm still a little confused on the whole Bob thing, to be completely honest.
00:04:36
Speaker
I also didn't realize, I don't know if you knew this. Well, no, you know this. But when I went in watching it, I was like, Like he looks so familiar. I'm like, I've seen him before in something, but I couldn't remember. And then I eventually, i did some looking back and i was like, oh, he was in Top Gun Maverick. He's from, he was in that movie. And he's that, what's his name?
00:04:58
Speaker
Bill Pullman's son. Yeah. Which they look very similar. Oh yeah. and and And we have, I think we, i don't know if we touched upon this like on our podcast or just in regular life, but I know we've kind of chatted a little bit about You know, right now I feel like we're living in the world where these actors who we knew from back in their kids are now in the movies. And you're like looking at them and you're like, they look familiar. you're like, oh, it's because they are the kid of so-and-so.
00:05:25
Speaker
Wild that we live now. and We're living now in this world where these like you know, neppy babies, that whole thing, which could be, could not be sure, whatever. But like, it's interesting to see all these faces now, like the kids are now, because both of the, what's called, um, what's this other, the other guy?
00:05:43
Speaker
She's also the kid, the, the, the other captain America, the bad captain America. oh Yeah. Uh, Wyatt Russell, who's Wyatt Russell, Kurt Russell's kid. Right. So we have both like him too.
00:05:54
Speaker
This looks like it's wild. Like to be like watching these movies and being like, Oh my God, that is the son of this person. And now they're in the movies and they're doing their thing. But, but, Sorry, I took a little bit.
00:06:05
Speaker
ah No, no, no. I diverted there, but it was just something that came up to me. um But overall, I did like them as a group. um I think the villain situation, obviously, we are talking about spoilers in this video. So if you haven't seen Thunderbolts. Oh, yeah. Spoilers, everyone. I forgot to mention that. So if you haven't seen Thunderbolts. so probably after don't worry don't worry because apparently marvel doesn't care about spoilers because a week ah literally a literally not even two weeks after this movie comes in they are they are spoiling the movie in ah big ways for people that haven't even seen the movie i'm sorry mo i'll i'll go into it i'll let you finish he feels very strongly about this we'll talk about it in a bit but yeah um so
00:06:47
Speaker
The villain in this movie to me was like, I feel like villains in general in Marvel lately have been very, really like poor. like i don't I just feel like- Bland. Bland, that's the word. It's either like- Bland. The villain's not really a villain.
00:07:01
Speaker
it's It's not like an actual bad person. Other than Thanos, right? Who was like an actual- No, I won't say- You don't think so? Okay, I agree with you with Thanos. agree with you, Thanos. Can't have a villain?
00:07:14
Speaker
Which one? To Captain America, ah Brave New World. Brave New World. Did they have a villain? An actual villain? I don't even remember the villain, to be honest with you. The villain was what? The villain was like that toad-looking guy who had the experiments done or whatever.
00:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But he wasn't even like an actual, like, I was like, okay, that's not like an actual villain. He was just like getting back at him for this. you that so You keep going back to Captain America, which is incredible. Sorry, i just it was it's fresh on my mind. Well, I know, I know, I know. i know what well well Even the Red Hulk wasn't even a villain.
00:07:45
Speaker
No, he wasn't. I mean, he was he was an antagonist at the end, but he wasn't the villain. I think, you know, with Captain America, it was just kind of, they were they were trying to, I'll give, i I'm going to go into Captain America just a little bit.
00:07:58
Speaker
I'll give Captain America credit this, um Brave New World is this. They did try to touch upon former movies, which I think it's actually good. As much as people say, oh, this is a step in the right direction with this movie. Oh, like to connect. Captain America did, I think, a better job connecting itself to the universe
Marvel Universe Connections and Audience Expectations
00:08:16
Speaker
more. Yeah.
00:08:17
Speaker
Because they, well, that villain, skipping on his name, but he was, he was, he's a throwback to the Hulk movies, the Hulk movie, the way Edward Norton. He's a direct lin linkage to that. So that's one thing there.
00:08:30
Speaker
And then finally, finally, someone in the Marvel universe acknowledges Eternals, that it happened. and and the um the the Celestials coming out of the water. And then they said it in the movie. They said, oh, we have a rare metal called adamantium.
00:08:45
Speaker
That is huge. The minute they said that, that's just establishing Wolverine and the X-Men right there. So I'll be honest with you, as much as you can you people give Captain America a lot of crap, the the latest one, I feel like it actually did a decent job trying to establish and connect itself to the existing world.
00:09:05
Speaker
more than a lot of other recent things. Yeah, that's true. Which I give that credit for doing that. Now, it wasn't a good... It wasn't like a great movie. I watched it. I was entertained for it. I went for the ride of what it was.
00:09:18
Speaker
But again, my expectations weren't like out the wall, ah you know, crazy like that. so So that's where I was. I gave it i gave it a 6 out of 10 when I saw it. i don't really like rating movies like that, but people ask me. I give i gave it a 6 out of 10 because I felt like I was entertained. I wasn't there and I wasn't miserable. I wasn't there like, oh, this is...
00:09:33
Speaker
crap, blah, blah, blah. Cause that was a thing, know? Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's how I look at it. You know, maybe it also was like, since we're here, I'm talking captain America. Maybe for me, it was also because like when I watched it, I didn't watch it at home by myself. I watched it. So my friend, um, she has an apartment building where they have like those little movie theaters that you can read.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah. So we went there and she's like a huge Marvel fan and we watched it in there. It was like me, her, and like a couple of our other friends. And she was also like really hating this movie throughout. And I think maybe it's just like we were both like, just like,
00:10:07
Speaker
Like, I don't know, maybe it's just that we were both hating on it together that it makes it feel worse than it was. You echoed the energy of the other person. Because nobody else liked it either. Like, everybody else kind of felt the same way. And I was like, why am I feeling like this movie was useless? But regardless, back to the results. No, no, but you know what? That's what we talk about in this podcast.
00:10:24
Speaker
You see a movie, and it's and and it's about how you feel about it. Because you can watch a movie, and and and in that moment, you feel like you're not getting anything out of it. And that's fine. You know, and in terms of Captain America, a Brave New World, I got what I got out of it was they tried to continue telling a story, you know, tugging along the story of the politics of that world.
00:10:46
Speaker
And they also tried to kind of remind people, hey, listen, Eternals did happen. And from the Eternals, then Celestials. We got adamantium, which is, again, it's a big deal when they mention that because that is that is right there. You're establishing, okay, if they have adamantium, that they're establishing the fact that there is going to be a Wolverine at some point.
00:11:06
Speaker
Or maybe there is a Wolverine already at some point. But you but you would be the only person to catch that. i like cause you're No, and that's true. Like me, like I'm like, I don't know what the hell yeah Wolverine's things are. Like, oh, they mentioned a medal. Okay. But like, yeah if I'm not an X-Men person or someone who knows what that is, to me, it doesn't connect. Well, that's where the divide comes in with people that...
00:11:29
Speaker
Okay, i don't want to sound like this, but that's the divide where it comes to people that started watching, that started getting into comic books in 2012 versus people that were into comic books and stuff. Yeah, like in the 90s. Before that, in the 90s, you know what I mean? yeah Because a lot of people got into into yeah a lot of people got into Marvel after Avengers. It wasn't even Iron Man or Thor.
00:11:50
Speaker
People watched Avengers in 2012 and that's when they were like, oh man, this is the greatest you know shit ever. This is the best thing ever. And they their their knowledge on comics is just literally based off of from Avengers, the first Avengers then going forward.
00:12:02
Speaker
And that's all they know. And that's okay because technically, you know, that movie did its job. It hauled in channel audiences that normally wouldn't even step into a comic book shop to pick up a comic book. But again...
00:12:14
Speaker
They mention these things because at some point they have to mention it because they're vital. You know, people look at Wolverine and Wolverine takes out his claws. Those claws are made out of adamantium. It's an uncuttable metal.
00:12:25
Speaker
it's it's it's it's true it's It's stronger than vibranium. It's one of those types of things. I actually have a question about that. So you know how you're saying like, oh, they mentioned that this celestial is made of, what is it? Adamantium. Adamantium.
00:12:40
Speaker
Adamantium. Like Adam, like the word, like the name Adam and Adamantium. Oh, Adamantium. Okay, there it goes. Okay. So, but, so that's what his thing are made out. His claws are made out Yeah. But like, so where did they, like, are they, like, I guess what I'm trying to say how does that necessarily like correlate yet? Like, where did they get the metal? I guess it's like, it's on the celestial, but like, are they just saying like it exists? Is that, was their way of like saying it exists?
Mental Health Themes and Story Execution in Thunderbolts
00:13:06
Speaker
Yeah. Pretty much just saying, they're saying that they, they, they found an element, um,
00:13:09
Speaker
um I'm paraphrasing because i don't remember what. No, are they so they sad in the day what I'm trying to say is like, so does that mean they used it from that celestial to make Wolverine? We don't know. We don't know. But this is the first time they've mentioned in any in in the 20 year of MCU, them even mentioning the word adamantium.
00:13:28
Speaker
Yeah. And again, when you mention adamantium. It's it. it you're You're pretty much acknowledging, okay, there is a possibility of a Wolverine in this universe because that's, that's it.
00:13:40
Speaker
That's a, that's what they put on Wolverines to coat his bones, to make the metal. You know, remember Wolverine's powers, isn't his claws, his healing abilities, but his healing abilities. If you call back, recall back to the movies, his healing abilities are what made him survive that surgery, which many people would have died from yeah because of how intensive it is. Yeah.
00:13:57
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah. So, again, we don't know. and And you know what, Mel? This could be, and I know we're going way off topic. This could be a nothing burger because we don't know what Feige is going to do with the X-Men. We don't know how he's going to establish it.
00:14:12
Speaker
We don't know if he's going to even establish it in the 616 universe, which is this universe. You know what i'm saying? Wait, I have a real quick, greg real quick. give me a give me Give me a little bit of a minute here on the soapbox.
00:14:24
Speaker
the Why is the Marvel Universe 616? It bothers me. You know why? Because I feel like it should be 212. two one two Why? You're asking 212.
00:14:36
Speaker
212 is the area code of Manhattan. Oh. ah Every freaking that and New York City is the the mecca of Marvel two and comic books. It should have been the 212 universe. it just yeah it it just makes It just makes sense. But hey, listen.
00:14:50
Speaker
Fine. Let me get off it. But yeah. Like, that's what it did. But we don't know. We don't know what's going to happen. And after this movie... We'll see what's going to happen with Avengers Doomsday. But, you know, I digress.
00:15:02
Speaker
um I know how you felt about Thunderbolts. And for the most part, don't are you finished? I don't i don't mean to, I don't want to cut you off on this. I think so, yeah yeah. I mean, if you if there's something I say that triggers something in you in regards to what I – in terms of the movie, jump in and tell me because I just – I'd love to hear your feedback on this. I haven't really had a lot of people to talk to about this with this movie outside of you and then our other cousin Angles and us who and then maybe like my my coworker where he's like a Marvel guy.
00:15:30
Speaker
But in regards to this movie, okay, I agree with you. I gave it a 7.5 out of 10. Yeah, that's what would give and and that was up to my Yeah, that was my initial view. And I remember i said that to you like, whoa, that's kind of like, really? Like that. And I was like,
00:15:45
Speaker
That's think it is. I don't think it's more than that. Especially when people are saying this is like, we're back. You're expecting this to be a nine, eight, a nine out of 10. I was expecting at least a nine. I was like, okay, this it we're back? yeah Okay, we're back. That means nine out of 10.
00:15:59
Speaker
So when Ronnie comes back, he's like, I'll give it a seven and a half, maybe eight. I said, oh, shit. So I should really lower my expectations then. Yeah, because I'm not going to bullshit you. going to tell you, listen, this is what it is. yeah you know But I gave it that score.
00:16:11
Speaker
I thought it was a good score because I was like, you know what? um In terms of the movie itself, I agree with you. This was Yelena-led movie, Florence Pugh. She was great in the in the movie, you know.
00:16:23
Speaker
The movie overall did a great job establishing these characters, and it did make you care for the characters. Yes. Agreed. It did a great job doing that with the story. And it did a pretty it did actually pretty quick because this movie isn't long.
00:16:36
Speaker
So it's like it it it it it helped establish these characters who were kind of, if you really want to put it, like they're kind of side characters in their own other movies. You know what I mean?
00:16:46
Speaker
Like they weren't outside of maybe Bucky. you know Yeah, aside Bucky. they they were They were, and Bucky himself is a side character, but Bucky was more the face there because we saw Bucky before. Bucky's an OG character. You know, Yelena, if you didn't see Black Widow and you didn't see Hawkeye, don't know who the hell Elena is. You don't know who she is.
00:17:07
Speaker
Same thing with Red Guardian. If you didn't see Black Widow, you don't know who Red Guardian is. If you didn't see ah Falcon and the Winter Soldier, you don't know who U.S. Asian is. Or what's her name? She was in Ant-Man and the Wasp.
00:17:19
Speaker
ah Yeah, Ghost. Not Ghost. It's Ghost. Ghost, yes she wast in um in yeah. in that one, in part two. which she was like she was like a antagonist. She wasn't necessarily like the villain. Exactly. and Which is a typical Marvel thing. But well again, we'll touch on that later. Can I just say real quickly about her character?
00:17:37
Speaker
I mean, like I feel like they did really well in establishing her character. Because in Ant-Man and the Wasp, almost like I can't remember what the fuck she did. I was like, yeah I know she's in it. yeah But I don't remember anything about her character. But I feel like they did really well to solidify a little bit more about her as a character.
00:17:53
Speaker
And I think it gave the actress also a bit more to like kind of stretch Well, at least they treated her better than Taskmaster. That was wild. Well, you know what? You know what's funny with this movie? And again, this is where a lot of my flans come into this movie. It's like, they were like, people were saying, oh, don't get too attached. And I'm like, uh-huh.
00:18:11
Speaker
I'm like, okay, don't get too attached. So that's kind of indicating like, oh, somebody will, some people will die. And I'm like, Really? Okay. And then you could tell who was going to die because of how they were promoting the movie. Well, yeah. everybody else Everybody else was the the chairs, but also them promoting the movie.
00:18:29
Speaker
You know, the actors that were promoting the movie, doing the rounds, the late night show rounds, the actress, Orga Kirilenko, she was nowhere to be seen, which kind of gave me the indication like, oh, yeah, you, you. You're just, you're just, you're barely in this movie, which she was barely in the Barely in it. She like died in the first like 10 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. She didn't take off her mask at that one point. You wouldn't even know.
Character Dynamics and Movie Tropes: Thunderbolts vs. Suicide Squad
00:18:49
Speaker
Honestly, if Marvel could have saved a lot of money in paying the actors. They could have just had anybody and don't even have the mask come off because it was not even needed. Yeah. i'll be awesome that's But anyway, let me go back to it. on ah Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, the movie did a great job.
00:19:03
Speaker
And you know what? That movie, this movie, is one of those tropes. you know we were talking about tropes last last episode. This is a Suicide Squad trope where let's get a band of misfits together Let's make them a team. You know, they're expendable to us because, you know, who cares about them? Blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:19:21
Speaker
Because essentially they're side characters, but in Suicide Squad, they're villains. And, you know, um that's what it was. That's what this movie was. And again, that trope is exciting. It's fun. It's a fun trope when you get like the group of people together.
00:19:33
Speaker
Like I said, a la Suicide Squad, you know, or, you know, ah Ocean's Eleven, um ah The Dirty Dozen. Like when you when you go into those type of things where you get a bunch of people together that shouldn't be together and they do things.
00:19:47
Speaker
It's kind of a fun thing. I mean, I think we've seen it done a lot. um I'm not going to say that this movie reinvented that. I don't think it did. It kind of kind of kept ah the line it kept yeah it same line of what it was, but it was fun.
00:20:00
Speaker
It was fun to see Marvel do it because Marvel hadn't done it from, well, no, no BS. Marvel did it Marvel did it at the highest level because they did Guardians. Guardians. essentially is that true. Oh yeah. it's like then The misfits and they, you know, so they, they did it. They did on the highest level, but no this was different. This was different. This was in cosmic. This was more grounded and the movie itself was grounded, which is actually nice to see. I like, I like seeing groundedness when it comes to the Marvel movie, even though when we get later on to Bob, a K century, it kind of goes different from, from being grounded.
00:20:30
Speaker
But anyway, um so yeah, I liked those characters. I said, those characters, um, There are some characters in this movie that just made me kind of question, yeah, we're not back entirely because there's a lot of, there's things here that it's like, did we need this? Oh, okay. One ready character I did not like that I was kind of wondering like, so are you the villain?
00:20:54
Speaker
And that was, um ah what's her what's her face? um Julia Louis-Draguis's Valentina. Yeah. um Okay. Okay. I don't know.
00:21:06
Speaker
That's another character, Mel, that we can talk about where it's like if you didn't see certain things, you know you're not going to know who she is. like I think we saw her in... was She was in Black Panther 2, right?
00:21:19
Speaker
Was she in Black Panther 2? Yeah, she was because she was talking with ah Martin Freeman. Yeah. They were married or something. They were married. Yeah, I forgot she was in Black Panther 2. She was in Black Panther 2 and I think she was in one of the shows.
00:21:35
Speaker
She's in, oh, my God. Was it Falcon and the Winter Soldier? It might be that one because she's like in an after credit because it's it's before Hawkeye because, remember, she tells Yelena who killed ah so the Black Widow. So you gotta go into ah you have to literally go into a...
00:21:51
Speaker
a after credit of a Disney Plus show to find her if you didn't see Black Panther 2. Yeah. And even in Black Panther 2, she was in it for a cup of coffee. She wasn't in it. She was in it, but she wasn't in it, in it.
00:22:03
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. it's like, okay, so this is a character that you establish as making her like the face of whatever. She's in this, she's in this she's on trial because she's doing shady shit. So she's like the Amanda Waller of- Yeah, that's what I was going to say. The Viola Davis. Yeah. yeah is that So it's kind of like, but then I don't know. Like I saw her and I'm just like, gotta of just I don't buy it.
00:22:26
Speaker
And I think, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus is a tremendous actress. I love her. I love Seinfeld and I love her as Elaine. She was in Veep. She's a tremendous actress. And I'm not saying that her acting was bad or anything.
00:22:38
Speaker
I'm just saying the way it was written and the way it was, it's like, and my so like Am I supposed to be afraid of this woman? Because Amanda Waller, I'm afraid of.
00:22:51
Speaker
She scares the shit out of me. She's essentially the bad guy in in in Suicide Squad. Yeah. Valentina just didn't give me those knives. No. You're a little too quippy. You're a little too jokey.
00:23:03
Speaker
and and But I think that's what makes it different. I think that's what makes it kind of more evolved. Sometimes. Not all the time. Not all the time. No, no, that's fine. That's fine. i have no problem with that.
00:23:14
Speaker
I don't. I don't. I'm trying to think, like, if that's just like... I mean, I don't know. Is she like that in the comics? i don't I don't know this character. So, again, you and I and everybody else that isn't into the comics deep, deep, deep cuts like that, because that's a deep cut character. If you follow... if you read comic Marvel Comics, that might be what I call a deep cut character.
00:23:35
Speaker
You know what I mean? This is my first, you know, this is my first full introduction to this character as who she's supposed to be Because again, you know, in the Black Panther movie, I kind of got an idea, but not really.
00:23:47
Speaker
And then in, um and then in the after credit, was she, wait, was she in Black Widow or no? i don't remember that I don't even remember. See, there you go. But that's what I'm trying to tell you. It's one of those things where it's like, I don't know what this character... So this is my main... and This is how I'm to be this how anson will be introduced this character.
00:24:02
Speaker
I didn't get anything that I'm supposed to be afraid of this lady. Like, there was just a lot of things. it was just kind of like, yeah, I don't know. I'm not buying this. Anyway, then we go on to Bob.
00:24:14
Speaker
Um... That was an interesting one for me because I just i don't know who I still don't know what he what what he is to the future of Marvel because he was like Superman.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, he's essentially he's essentially kind of like their Superman in a way, kind of like that. I mean, everything he did was just like Superman. flies. Yeah, he had yeah.
00:24:39
Speaker
But then you have the other side of him with the void situation. Yeah, yeah. and and and i kind of dug that aspect of it about like you know the it he takes you to the darkness yo wait can i just say one thing yeah so when he when he what is he points at you he looks at you and then you like disappear yeah i thought he was killing people i was like those sleep um yo i thought war of the worlds remember war of the world yeah i remember of the wordss they i thought he was vaporizing people too i was like oh shit this guy's vaporizing people yeah i was like oh my god this is
00:25:12
Speaker
yeah And this is why this is why like I feel like the movie, the trailer and everything kind of like, i I really wonder if people went into this thinking like, yo, this is crazy. This movie is going be wild. This was vaporizing people.
00:25:23
Speaker
And then you finally see like, oh, no, he's not really vaporizing people. He's just putting people like in a dark place in their worst their life. Which sad. I mean, it's a very- sad. It's very sad, very mental health focused. It is. And you know me. I love the mental health focused thing. I do.
00:25:37
Speaker
i just I just feel like- them not killing people like it would have been better if he like actually vaporized them
Villain Complexity and Emotional Resolution
00:25:44
Speaker
but then he would be an actual villain then like he's at killing people then well then this is where we fall into the line of what we were talking about who's the villain he's the villain yeah he was villain it was like it was supposed to be valentino was the villain but then he slowly became the villain when he like started realizing like, oh, well, you don't need me. And I was like, oh, so he's going be the villain now.
00:26:07
Speaker
Oh, he's also like, oh, no, not as bad. But he's like also like another Homelander, right? Like that's kind of like, oh, I don't need you, whatever. But I'm ah i'm a god. That whole thing about him being a god. And then he was in the void. and But simply forget.
00:26:21
Speaker
but thing with him is forget Well, because I think what it is is that he he he he kind of let his intrusive thoughts win because of all the bad shit he's been through in his life with him being abused at home and then his drug use and then his criminal thing. And it's like, it's almost like that's where the mental health aspect comes into play where it's like he let he let all of his past dictate who he was at that moment. And I guess that power that he was given, um which I don't even remember if they went into how he got it.
00:26:49
Speaker
don't I honestly don't remember. it just said that It just said that he was like experimented on. Again, another little mongrel throwaway thing that they want to do. They just told him, just being like, oh, there's thing, a program, and you can help save people or whatever. Yeah, because I think there is a super soldier serum thing involved there, too.
00:27:08
Speaker
I think there is something there with that. There's some sort of connection with it. But anyway. anyway strong Yeah, he's very strong. But I think what it is is maybe that, coupled with his internal battle that he was going with, with his past, it created the void.
00:27:23
Speaker
And you know what's funny? ah home So ah when Batman v Superman came out some years ago, which is like, it's going to be 10 years. Yeah, it's been a while. It's going to be 10 years this year.
00:27:36
Speaker
um People trashed that movie. I loved it. I loved it. But people trashed it because it wasn't Marvel. And they made fun of one scene. always went into That part where Batman is over Superman. He's about to kill him. and Oh, i remember you telling that. Martha, you have to save Martha.
00:27:52
Speaker
This and that. People are like, he won the fight because of Martha. Hello. In Thunderbolts, they won the fight because they hugged Bob. They hugged Bob. That's how they won the fight. We're going to hug you.
00:28:05
Speaker
We are going to hug you because this is how we'll defeat the Void. going to hug you love you. And again, I have no problem with that because I understand. i get it.
00:28:17
Speaker
I get the point of them doing that because it's kind of like giving, showing Bob at that moment in his lowest of lows, like, like, you know, you don't have to kill this thing. This thing wants you to kill it, but we're here to tell you that you don't have to take that road. You don't, I get it. But you see people, this is what it calls to be logical.
00:28:36
Speaker
I didn't make fun of the hug while a lot of people made fun of, oh, you killed Martha, Martha, Martha, Martha. You know, and I'm sorry. I don't mean to make this into a bad version of that because it shouldn't. That movie's
Exploring the Void and Character Experiences
00:28:46
Speaker
10 years old. It's moved on, whatever.
00:28:48
Speaker
But it just, it upset me because people were making fun of that back then. But then no one's saying anything about this now. No one the saying anything about this now because I, and a lot of the same people that would make fun of that would have, should have definitely made fun of this because this was silly of, oh, let me, let's give him a hug. Let's love him until he's bad, until he's good again.
00:29:06
Speaker
But again, I get why they did it. Yeah, I know. To me, it makes sense. It made sense, yeah. Just like it made sense when the whole Martha thing made sense. Yeah, exactly. Because you're calling back to the guy's mom who saw... He saw his mom be tragically shot, his mom and dad. So when you say the person's name, it's going to trigger them to like to kind of step back.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah. You know what i mean? So I don't know. just it just When I saw that scene, I was like, ah you motherfuckers, I got you now. ah i really want to see I really want to see if people are going to say stuff. But they're not, yeah obviously, because... you know But anyway...
00:29:34
Speaker
um So, yeah, they they they prevent Bob from falling and deeper into the void and becoming the void fully, which would which was great because, I mean, New York City was gone.
00:29:44
Speaker
Oh, by the way, ah where was Daredevil and Spider-Man during this? I don't know. out Oh, I'm not going lie. I thought about it. Especially after our last Daredevil conversation. Do you think Peter relived um Aunt May getting killed again?
00:29:58
Speaker
Probably. Oh, that's probably where he was. where And where was... Oh, Foggy. It's either Foggy being killed or his dad being killed. One of those two things. Yeah, one those two things. Yeah, And then all the other superheroes that are in Manhattan at the time or whatever.
00:30:12
Speaker
Someone said something that I thought that was true. So you know how when ah Elena went into the void, right? Yeah. And you know you she relived all those things over and over and over again. A lot of people were like, oh, I think I would have liked to see what everyone else's void looked like.
00:30:27
Speaker
i agree. And I'm like, oh, I actually do agree. Like, I would have loved to see what Bucky's void was or Red Guardian. Right. Like, because Red Guardian is also like a you don't really know a lot about his past. Like, I'm like, that would be really good. Well, because we saw quickly, like, kind of what the void would be for Valentina with her dad dying. Yeah. Like, kind of like giving the audience the reason as to like why she's a villain.
00:30:51
Speaker
Right. yeah In a way. Right. Yeah. yeah In a way. Right. Like you kind of had that moment. And like I. It was interesting because i I didn't know this character. I didn't know who Bob was. I didn't know what Bob was going to turn into. I literally was like.
00:31:04
Speaker
And then when he came out as a superhero. I was like. i I literally was like. Am I supposed to know who this is? Because I have no idea who this is. ah but i Because he had like a grand entrance. why And they hit him throughout the trailers. They never showed. They never never showed him. And I was like. I don't.
00:31:19
Speaker
am I supposed to know who this is? And like, I mean, that's normal because most of like, unless you're a comic book reader, you wouldn't know. you're not going to know. And that's like any other character from the past, right? That, you know, came out.
00:31:31
Speaker
Even though I guess Avengers is just a little bit different because these are like iconic, big characters. Everyone knows these characters. they're just iconic in a way that you would know ahead of time. yeah And of course, like, you know, they had their own movies and stuff, but like with this character, like I had never heard of him. I had never seen him. I had had no idea who the hell he was.
00:31:49
Speaker
So, you know, i just, I liked, I liked the, like when he would touch you and then you like you saw a glimpse of the voice. Yeah. There was cool things there. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I would have liked if they kind of showed a little bit more of like the other characters when they're trying to get to Elena and Bob.
00:32:08
Speaker
Like a little bit of like what their avoid was. A
Critique of Thunderbolts' Ending and Future Implications
00:32:10
Speaker
little bit more. because we I think that's a good idea. I don't think we saw ghosts at all. No, I think... I mean, she isn't more like... lawyer mean she's like the more Out of all the characters, she's the most sidelined in my opinion.
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah, from the ones there, she is. But I don't know. i feel like with like with Bucky, technically, we saw his past. We saw his past in... in captain america civil war we saw his past kind of talking about his past and yeah like we do know that yeah oh yeah yeah that's true yeah and like you said with with red guardian we kind of saw that um we kind of saw that in in the black widow stuff and even in the beginning of this movie because you know obviously my guardian and yelena yeah i remember they were like little kids and stuff um wait am i confusing and not confusing with black widow i'm so sorry
00:32:56
Speaker
Yeah, I was like, Because Black Widow was on TV the other day. and it was Oh, I haven't seen Black Widow in Soul. and i think I've only seen it once. so I've only seen it once. I don't really care to see it. can't remember. It doesn't. That movie. I mean, it could have been better if it was made 10 years earlier.
00:33:10
Speaker
100%. That's what the problem was. But yeah, and yeah but ah yeah that's that's that's where it is. um ah You know, can I can i ask you a question, Mel? need your opinion on this.
00:33:21
Speaker
How did you feel about how it ended? Because that's one thing where I'm just like, I would love to give the director truth serum on it and be like, is there, was there supposed to be more movie?
00:33:34
Speaker
Was there supposed to be more movie? Because I literally feel like they stopped the void and then, You see, you see ah what's her face? Valentina.
00:33:46
Speaker
Valentina. Oh, you know they're they're about to run up on her. Oh, let's come to the side. and oh this these are these are the new Avengers. And I'm like, what the fuck is this?
00:33:58
Speaker
And then the movie ends. I'm like, we we we we own you.
00:34:03
Speaker
Own you? Shout her out. Why are y'all... Yo, that's a decision. I'm like, What? Like, it was it was just, it was weird.
00:34:16
Speaker
and It just ended, like, abruptly. And I'm like, i'm like just was there was there supposed to be more kind of happening there? I don't know. i What did you think? no, I do agree. I think the movie did kind of... um I will say, I think, which is unfortunate. um I don't even know. i got to think about it. Because, like, you know, we're used to Marvel movies have the big fight at the end, right? Everyone's fighting, and then they defeat the person, and then there's, like, a... You know, they'll come and together, and whatever, blah, blah. That's the end of it, right?
00:34:48
Speaker
This was the... One of the movies where, like, the ending wasn't, like, a big... It wasn't like a big climax. It wasn't a big climax piece set action set piece. It was just like, oh, let's all talk about our problems and talk about how, you know, and talk about mental health situations and not being alone and and and um not stuffing everything down and talking to people and and not feeling alone. And, you know, you do have a support system, all of these things. Right. Yeah.
00:35:16
Speaker
That was the climax of this movie. Mm hmm. And then Bob comes back and he's like, I can't remember anything, which is one thing that I didn't understand about the character. I'm like, does he not remember when he is century? Like, I don't, I don't know, whatever.
00:35:30
Speaker
Um, it almost felt like he's like, Oh, what am I doing here? Like he doesn't remember what happened. So I, I, that part that to me about that character was still a little bit like, I don't, I'm confused, but regardless with the ending. yeah I do feel like it was then very much rushed because it was like, okay, yay, we're back.
00:35:49
Speaker
New Avengers. I'm like, wait, first of all, why are they the new Avengers? I'm like, okay, they have to set up an Avengers, I guess, of sorts. That's why they need to. Because they're like, oh, Doomsday is coming and we don't have Avengers. So what are we going to do? Oh, we'll make these guys the Avengers for now. Well, we have two battling Avengers. That's another thing in the movie that they said. They said that that that captain took and he like trademarked Avengers.
00:36:14
Speaker
Oh, in the after credit scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. some Somebody, yeah. And I was just like, i was like, okay. Yeah, I was just like, so why does Sam Wilson, why would he's like suing them for the name? like, this is weird.
00:36:25
Speaker
I don't get it. I don't understand that. I think that's so so, so, so silly, but like, I don't understand like why they just couldn't still just be the Thunderbolts. Like why did they have to be the Avengers? Obviously it's for Avengers Doomsday because we're rushing this. They're like, oh, we don't have, we don't have a team of Avengers. So you know what?
00:36:45
Speaker
Let's make these guys the Avengers. And, Yeah, I didn't like that. I have to agree. And I do think it was a little bit of a rushed ending. And then that whole thing. Yeah, like we own you. And I was like, why? I'm like, what?
00:36:57
Speaker
ah Yeah, I do agree with that. I think it was kind of very rushed and and kind of silly. I'm like. It was very silly because you're assuming to tell me you, the whole island of Manhattan fell into this void that, I mean, i imagine everybody that fell into the void.
00:37:14
Speaker
Must have come out of it fucked up. Like, yo, what the fuck happened? You know what mean? Yeah. When you come out of of i don't remember. But you can tell me. When you came out of the void, do people remember about what happened with the void? They kind of remember a little bit, right? Like... I think so. So then you have all these people... don't know.
00:37:29
Speaker
They didn't really say to They didn't really say. So it's like it's one of those things. It's like I'm like, so wait... Like, so, but you know, there was a bunch of destruction and everything. And and you're going to tell me, oh, yeah, we we own you. We're not going to say anything, you know, because, you know, you you put us in this position, blah, bla blah, blah.
00:37:47
Speaker
I'm just like, I just, i don't know. I felt like it was it was a very kind of like blasé way to end the movie. It was a very abrupt thing. and Very, very abrupt. And yeah I just didn't, I wasn't feeling that at all.
00:38:00
Speaker
um i think I think one of those things with movies is we talk about it. An ending, you always remember the ending. You always remember that. And and a good ending can can make
Post-Credit Teasers and Marvel's Future Directions
00:38:10
Speaker
a movie. yeah The movie could be crappy, but if you like, if the last 30 or 40 minutes of the movie gets you, that could save a movie. yeah And I think this movie suffered with that where the last...
00:38:22
Speaker
you The ending, yeah. The last 20 minutes of the movie with everything, the way it happened, it kind of, I think it kind of ruined the movie in for me in a bit. and Yeah.
00:38:33
Speaker
And then we get into the after credit stuff, which again, all these people on social media were saying, oh my God, the after credit is the best after credit and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, okay. So I'm like, all right, bet.
00:38:47
Speaker
You know, so I sit through the after credits. i sit through the credits. We get that one little... They always have the one jokey yeah one with Guardian with the cereal and the Wheaties box and stuff. And then we get to the one that everybody that we're all waiting for. So the now they're in the Avengers headquarters, right?
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah, that looks like it. Yeah. Okay, so they're in the Avengers headquarters. And then it's like, oh, yeah, um there's still some jokey-jokey stuff going on. And it was a full... i was The one thing I'll give it to them with that, it was like an actual like scene.
00:39:18
Speaker
yeah wasn't just... Yeah, it was like a two and a half, three minutes scene. Yeah, it wasn't like, turn over and there's somebody there. yeah Normally in the past, that the post-credit scenes are usually pretty quick. They're like, someone's talking and then the character walks in. And they were like, oh, like when Sam Jackson first came out, right? Like, it's usually pretty quick.
00:39:35
Speaker
But this was like a full-on like scene. And I was like, what's... what's going on? I'm so confused, but okay, we're, we're just gonna go through it. like I liked it. I mean, I think it was because what is it a year later? two years I don't even remember. It said it. It said like, i think I think it's been like a year or something and they're all still like bickering and being themselves, whatever. Same old, same old. But continue what you were going to say.
00:39:54
Speaker
And then, you know, we get to the we get to the big reveal. Oh, there's something coming from space. Blah, blah, blah. Then we see a ship coming from space and then the ship turns and it says Fantastic Four. You hear them do you yeah and the music yeah music and then you see the Fantastic Four ship, the same ship that we've seen in the trailers for the Fantastic Four movie.
00:40:15
Speaker
And you're just like, okay. And then that's when it ends. And I'm like, okay, so this is the this is the after credit you're talking about? You're literally telling us that, oh, there's a ship for Fantastic Four. Well, first all, Fantastic Four is the next movie.
00:40:29
Speaker
So, you know, you're not, and um and then I looked at it as, don't know if you looked at it how I looked at it as, I'm like, that's a spoiler. That's spoiler that they gave there. So you mean to tell me that their ship is coming into this universe?
00:40:45
Speaker
So then you're kind telling us about something about the movie coming up now where what happens to their world? Do they get jumped from their quote-unquote world to this world? yeah.
00:40:57
Speaker
That's what going ask. I was like, so... Because at first I was like, so wait, did they are they leaving their universe? Because I don't know. Because the universe thing, is it like a...
00:41:09
Speaker
A space thing? Like you just get on your ship and then you're another universe? Because to me, like it just looks like they're going to another planet. It doesn't look like they're leaving their universe. No, that's a universe thing. That's a universe thing. Because it's a multiverse thing. It's a multiverse thing. Yeah, like they're coming into this universe. Okay, or they're entering their But to me, it's kind of a spoiler because it's like, okay, so then it's like you're revealing something about this movie and the movie hasn't come out yet.
00:41:34
Speaker
And we know that Galactus and Silver Surfer have come in and threatened this world. So do they not save the world? Is that what it is? And then they have to leave? Like, I don't know. Like, I feel like, I don't know. I feel like they could have done something better. Like, if you want to talk about Fantastic Four, like maybe do something were like, oh, we're receiving a signal.
00:41:52
Speaker
And then have the signal be like, show fucking Reed Richards on the thing. Hello, da-da-da-da. Like, something like that. Yeah. Without having the need of showing the shit. That's what thought it was going to be. You know what mean? I thought it was going to be, like, a Pedro Pascal.
00:42:06
Speaker
Yeah. I thought it was... Okay, the reason why... and this is, like, really random. But the only reason why I thought that Pedro Pascal was going to be in this after credit was because he was at the premiere for Thunderbolts.
00:42:17
Speaker
And I thought that was weird because nobody else was. And i was like, oh, maybe he's in this or something. But he wasn't. It was just a fan. It was like technically, I guess he was there, but not really. it's like There's some people who loved this because they felt like it was the first time that it was like an after credit that like made sense or connected something compared to other ones.
00:42:36
Speaker
i still I personally think it was very weak. i'm and i I think I told you that in my voice message. I thought it was very weak. Yeah. and I was like, ah okay, yeah, but we we already know that we're going to Fantastic Four. we That's the next movie. I don't need an after credit to tell me that that's what that is.
00:42:51
Speaker
I feel i would have i would have loved I would have loved if they would ah I know it's tough to do it, but Feige knows the timeline of these things. i think I honestly think they should have done some some Avengers Doomsday thing there.
00:43:06
Speaker
I'm not saying show us Robert Downey Jr. or whatever, but like I think you need to thread that needle. Oh, yeah. Well, it's like Thanos. Remember, we've kept getting like little, little after like a lot of random like movies in that time. Remember, we would get like little nuggets of Thanos where it's like, Thanos is coming.
00:43:23
Speaker
Right. Even though it's been we didn't get Thanos for a while, but there was always a little nugget of this big bad of something in the in the in the background. Right. That's coming.
00:43:34
Speaker
And with this, it's kind of like Avengers Doomsday is the next fucking movie next year. Yeah, and that's the big movie. And let me tell you, Mel. Mel.
00:43:46
Speaker
I know we're all worried. The more I think about it, man, I'm worried about that movie. Oh, it's so much. They could show me all the fucking chairs they want with all the actors and all the things. Oh, we got Robert Downey as Dr. Doom.
00:43:59
Speaker
You could show me all that shit. I'm worried because this is a movie that's a year away. It's a year away. And you mean to tell me We have to do a lot. And audiences are going to have to do a lot of mental gymnastics on lot shit. is this movie going to be like three hours long?
00:44:17
Speaker
It has to be. It has to be long. Because a lot is going to have to be explained in this movie. um I don't want to put this out there, i want to put it out there because, you know, whatever. This is our podcast and we make the rules.
00:44:31
Speaker
It would not surprise me if that movie gets delayed. It would not surprise me. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me. Really? It wouldn't surprise me. Because I feel like this' it's a big, big fucking
Speculating on X-Men and Avengers Doomsday
00:44:44
Speaker
movie.
00:44:44
Speaker
And it's a very important movie. you know It's a movie that is going to potentially establish the Marvel Universe for the next 10 years.
00:44:57
Speaker
So it has to be a movie that does an excellent job establishing what it's going. Because... and I'm bring my out my true serum ah droplet again.
00:45:08
Speaker
If I could give Kevin Feige true serum right now, I can almost guarantee you he would say, I just want to do X-Men right away. Like, I'm i'm done with doing Avengers shit. I want to do X-Men.
00:45:19
Speaker
It wouldn't surprise me. Oh, interesting. I'm telling it wouldn't surprise me. i I really do feel like this Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret War, I think it's going to put the bow on...
00:45:32
Speaker
the Avengers in general for a while. And then it's just going to be fantastic for an X-Men centric going forward. I think maybe how Feige has kind gotten to his ends on these characters and, and this part of the Marvel. I really do. it I don't know something about it.
00:45:51
Speaker
I feel like, listen, I'm not, I'm not on any level of anything of Kevin Feige. The man is a genius. He did amazing things. He's done amazing things in Hollywood. Um,
00:46:03
Speaker
But I feel like as a creative type, there comes a moment where you're just, you get bored. You're just like, i don't i don't want to keep doing things with these characters.
00:46:15
Speaker
but I've already taken this character as far as I can go. I want to work with these characters because these characters are new and there's so much more we can get in with these characters.
00:46:26
Speaker
me Because let me tell you something thing right now. I've said it from jump. I'm an X-Men guy. I would take X-Men above Avengers any day of the week, twice on Sunday. X-Men to me are are exponentially more interesting than Avengers. The Avengers are an all-star team.
00:46:43
Speaker
That's what they are. The X-Men aren't an all-star team. The umbed the the X-Men are are a team that comes together. They're they're they're essentially you know a unit. you know Almost similar to like Guardians where they're a team and they're unit. They're like a family.
00:46:57
Speaker
Same thing with X-Men. Same thing as Fantastic Four. But with the X-Men, there's an interesting thing there. you know Because, again, if you do your research, if you do your research, go into how Stan Lee created the X-Men. It's pretty much a response to the civil rights movement of the 60s and 70s of how there was so much racism you know in this country.
00:47:15
Speaker
But Stan Lee turned it around and made it into something where, okay, well, the X-Men, we're not going to do that. We're going to talk about um you know mutants and humans and how they can coexist. Yeah. The X-Men are super interesting. I really feel like Kevin Feige wants to just jump in Just wants to go there and end this. I think there's obligations, contracts and stuff that are out there that he has to kind of go through with.
00:47:37
Speaker
To finish off. And then also the old, the old, you know, the 800 pound girl in the room, it is Avengers. It is a billion dollar property. Disney's not going to be like, oh, no, we don't care that, you know, you're, you're, you know, yeah you don't care that you're bored. That's a billion dollar thing.
00:47:51
Speaker
We need this money. Go make Avengers movies. And. Again, this movie's gonna make this movie is most likely going to make a billion dollars. I can tell you that now. yeah. It's Avengers. People are going to see it. Everyone's going to watch it. People are going to see What will say, though, is the fact that I think that movie is going to make a lot of money on that first opening weekend. But, of course, that first opening weekend is going to decide what next weekends are going to be like, right?
00:48:21
Speaker
So if they don't get a good response, that can drop. That can tank if it's very quick bad. Very, very quickly. It can tank. So this movie, at the end of the a has to be yeah it has to be a top-tier Marvel movie for it has to be it succeed. If it's not, people are just going to be like,
00:48:42
Speaker
piece like yeah they're checking out they're checking out and then they're gonna be passing it along like hey don't waste your time or not worth it not it's not you know and then there goes their their money yeah there goes their money and and i'm curious about that too mel just with the struggles of and granted you know uh dunderbolts has done fairly well in the box office bing's been the number one movie in the world two years and two weeks in a row i think it is here domestically and yeah domestically i think so it's done it's done well um But you know doing well is not Avengers. Avengers can't do well. Avengers has to do big.
00:49:17
Speaker
Yeah. screws There's a different level to it yeah when it comes to the Avengers entity. you know Because they all always make buco bucks. So I think... you know Obviously, we know Fantastic Four has to be a big hit. I think it will be a big hit.
00:49:34
Speaker
um Will it make a billion dollars? I don't know. Fantastic Four will be a big hit. um But I also think it's good that i don't know I don't know if Fantastic Four doing well or not will affect...
00:49:48
Speaker
Endgame, I mean, Endgame, Doomsday, because I think people going to go out in droves to see Doomsday. the minute it The minute that trailer hits online, it's going to break the internet. People are going go crazy. You know what I mean?
00:49:59
Speaker
I still do think there's going to be a lot of confusion amongst fans with the whole Robert Downey Jr. as Dr. Doom. I think that's going to be a bit... and thent that's gonna be a a be bit of a problem that Disney thinks, oh no, our fans are going to forget it. They're not going to, I think that's going to be a lot tougher than people think. Oh yeah. I mean, it's already tough right now for a lot of people who are in the this media space and who cover, you know, movies and things like that. A lot of them are, we're already kind of worried about this casting. So I think yeah a lot of, I think,
00:50:32
Speaker
I mean, obviously there's different you know people in the media or people who do like what we do and stuff like that. Like that's different because we're like it compared to general audiences. General audiences are like, oh I think I saw this, you know, a guy who takes his girlfriend who doesn't really watch Marvel movies. Right. And or whatever.
Conclusion and Future Podcast Teasers
00:50:47
Speaker
Right. And the other thing that generalizers are tired of and don't like is the whole multiverse thing. I think a lot of them... wasn't a fan. wasn't a fan the multiverse thing. They don't like it. It's been one of those things where... And you know what?
00:50:58
Speaker
With Doomsday, Marvel's going to do what they do best is they're going to use the nostalgia aspect. They're going to have the 2000 X-Men there. They're going to have the OG Avengers there. They're probably going to have OG Fantastic Four. going all these characters come out, you know?
00:51:12
Speaker
surprise characters that we didn't expect and that's going to be nostalgia bait kind of like how they did with um with spider-man but again if that only works so much before people watch the movie and they'll be like what was this movie about yeah oh it's it's multiverse i i don't like multiverse it's too confusing it's too blah it's too blah a lot of people it's not it's not it's not drawing people in Let's see what happens. Again, think Avengers Doomsday is going to do very well in the box office, but you are 100% right. That opening weekend, it's going to make $200 million.
00:51:44
Speaker
It's that second weekend, and it's that percentage of a drop-off that I'm interested in seeing what those numbers are. Because, i don't know, Mel. I'm totally concerned for Avengers Doomsday.
00:51:56
Speaker
I'm concerned. And and if it's we'll see if it actually, like you say, gets delayed. Yeah. I have a feeling, Mel. If it gets delayed. If it gets delayed. Which I think would be a good thing. I'll be honest with you. Well, it would be a good thing.
00:52:09
Speaker
But it's not like they're planning any other movie in between. So it's not like, you know, it's still going to be waiting with still no middle ground. Right? Yeah. like what What else this comes out next year for them?
00:52:20
Speaker
I don't know. Spider-Man come out next year for them? No. No? No, they haven't even started shooting Spider-Man. Let me see. No. Marvel, MCU, MCU 2026. Because I'm curious to see what is there. I think it's just Doomsday right now.
00:52:37
Speaker
Nothing before Doomsday.
00:52:42
Speaker
Wow. You have the Ironheart show. No, no, no, but i'm talking about for next year. I know. ah No, because Marvel comes out in May. Usually nothing really else comes out but and before May.
00:52:54
Speaker
Mm-hmm. i'm just I'm just so... Yeah, because that's that's a that's a thing, man. It's going to be a... There's a huge time between Fantastic Four and... See, they're saying... I'm looking here. it says Spider-Man Brand New Day is supposed to be 2026.
00:53:13
Speaker
But not before May. no No, no, not before May. I'm talking about after. So my thing is, if they do delay Avengers Doomsday, they have a we have space they have space to move it. you know um move it Because if they delay Avengers Doomsday, then they're to have to delay Avengers Secret War. You can't do those things. But I thought Brand New Day, damn, but they haven't even started of filming that. They haven't even started shooting it yet.
00:53:37
Speaker
And then the thing was, with Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret War, they're not being shot at the same time, right? i don't even know. I don't think so. I haven't heard them being shot at the same time. I don't think so.
00:53:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, man. i You know, I'm like I said, I'm I'm concerned. I'm calling me concerned with it. i I this is a different this is a different this is a different level from where Marvel was at previously.
00:54:06
Speaker
They always had lead-ups to these mill movies. they had They always had a good game plan. There is no game plan. Oh, there is no game plan. I feel like there hasn't been a game plan. To me, this feels like, let's throw shit on the and see if it sticks. This is what this feels like.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yep. But you know what? this Thunderbolts, just to kind of wrap it up. Thunderbolts, 7.5 out of 10. I thought it was a good movie. I thought there was a lot of good stuff. And I think they did a great job establishing these characters.
00:54:29
Speaker
And I do want to see more of these characters. Agreed, yeah. I do want to see more of them. um I do. i'm um you know I'm more excited about seeing them and seeing how they progress in their next go-around. And I guess the next go-around is going to be Avengers Doomsday, but I'm afraid that they're going to get lost in the fold because they're not big names. You know what I mean? That's 100%.
00:54:49
Speaker
hundred percent They're going to be lost in the fold in that movie. um But let's see what happens. um i Again, I'm cautiously concerned about I do have some faith in the Russos pulling it off, but I feel like, why do we have to have that?
00:55:07
Speaker
Why can't it just be how it was it's like, nah, we're going to be in, it's going to be good. We're going to be good. Yeah. I guess with Fantastic Four being the next thing, I think we'll have maybe even more of a clear, maybe in Fantastic Four, maybe there's something else that, you know, they haven't shown that might help it ah a little bit. I don't know.
00:55:24
Speaker
I'm hoping, obviously, you know, with Fantastic Four being the next movie that, But Fantastic Four has to has to establish itself, though, Mo. Like, Mel, like, we can't we can't expect Fantastic Four to help establish... Oh, that's true.
00:55:36
Speaker
They do they have to establish themselves. They need to establish themselves in their world. So it's like, how much is Fantastic Four really going to tell us about Earth 616? If it does, it's going to be very, very little, like a snippet of anything. Yeah. Because that's unfair to tell that movie...
00:55:50
Speaker
less writer that directed us Unless Doom comes out in that or something and we don't know. or I'm assuming do I feel like we're going to have to get some sort of Doom thing what in that movie. Either in the after credit or at the end of the movie or something, yeah which is why they're leaving their universe. right There could be so much. a Who knows? but Anyway, um I did like i ah brinie I think I kind of feel the same way. I think I gave it a seven and a half as well.
00:56:18
Speaker
Um, I, I really did enjoy this movie. I, like you said, I did enjoy the characters, um, that they set up. Um, and I really do want to see more, um, of that relationship as, as a team, like to grow.
00:56:32
Speaker
Um, I do think, like, I really liked seeing Bucky again. We barely talked about Bucky, but I really liked seeing him in this movie again. um fighting again, like that was cool. Cause then, know, black, uh, was not saying black widow all in captain America.
00:56:44
Speaker
Brave New World, he was like in it for a second. He had a cameo. Not a second, but he had like one scene and that was it. um But like I liked him in this. I did feel like he you know served a purpose. and I really liked his character in this. and It was nice to see him again and and fighting. and It was cool. like I was like, oh, back in the day.
00:57:04
Speaker
like It felt nice. I felt really good about that. um but Anyway, guys, so I think the next thing we are going to be covering... Oh! is Andor in two weeks. So make sure that you are following um the pod so you don't miss out on Andor because I'm pretty sure that's going to be hell of an episode. I cannot wait to talk about Andor.
00:57:28
Speaker
Ronnie, I don't know if you've finished it yet, but I... um ah I think I'm an episode off from finishing. It's 10 episodes, right? No, 12. Oh, so i'm I'm a few. twelve thirteen 12, 13? So i'm still I'm still a few off. I think it's 12.
00:57:40
Speaker
I'm like one'm like two, maybe two or three off. Okay, so ah yeah, we are going to have lots to talk about with Andor. I wish I could say million things right now, but we're not. um So that will be in two weeks. We'll be back with that episode. So make sure, youre like I said, that you're following.
00:57:56
Speaker
um Make sure you share the podcast with your friends who might be interested in this topic or other film topics like this because Rania and I are always going to be chatting about the films out there, right? The TV shows out there that, you know, we're really making us feel things, whether they be good or whether they be bad.
00:58:13
Speaker
ah Different genres too. We're going to have an episode on romantic comedies coming out. Yeah, especially because we've got Materialist coming out next month, which we will be talking about in another Pedro Pascal film. um Very excited to talk about that. And yeah, that rom-com episode is going to be a fun one because I have lots to say.
00:58:29
Speaker
Lots of movies coming out in the next couple of months, so it will be pretty busy here on the pod with the movie reviews and the movie thoughts. So um hope you guys are sticking around, and I guess we'll see you next time.
00:58:41
Speaker
Bye. Bye. Take care, guys.