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Is Wicked: For Good Oscar-Worthy? Our Beyond the Shot Breakdown
0 Playsin 9 hours
In this episode of Beyond the Shot, we sit down to break down Wicked: For Good — the performances, the music, the directing, and whether the film has a real shot at the Oscars. From Cynthia Erivo’s powerhouse vocals to Ariana Grande’s transformation, we dive into what worked, what surprised us, and what awards buzz actually feels realistic.
We also talk about how the movie compares to the Broadway show, which categories it could compete in, and if it has what it takes to stand out in a crowded awards season.
⭐ If you enjoyed the episode, follow the show and leave a review — it helps more movie fans find us!
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
it was It was so different from the first one. Oh, yeah. Okay, wait. Okay, let's let's look. Okay, before before we get into we're really excited. Guys, we're going to be talking about... First of all, welcome. Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. We've just been chatting a away here before pressing record, but ah today's a very special day because we're going to be
Initial Impressions and Review Strategy
00:00:21
Speaker
reviewing... Wicked for Good that just came out last Friday. Rod and I both saw it opening day. um On opening night, we went and Rodney went with his family and I went with one of my friends and we went and saw it. And we don't really know each other's opinions or anything yet. We haven't discussed it. We just said we saw it and that was it. But we didn't discuss anything because wanted to leave it for the pod. just to chat away here because I'm pretty sure i feel like Rodney Knight will probably feel the same way or have some similar thoughts about it because I think this movie as a whole I think has been a little bit more divided it's been more just been very device much more divisive than the first one um so you know when the movie came out just so everyone who if you don't know this but when the movie you know the review started coming out people already were like, ah, very split. I kind i saw some negative reviews. I saw some positives and I was like, okay, okay. I don't want to read anything. I don't want watch anything. I just want to go in with my own, you know, my own thoughts. I don't want to like have anything taint it or get in my mind because I feel like those things really can. You kind of, oh yeah when you read that and you hear it, you read everything and you're like, oh man, and then you go and watch it. It messes with your mood too. So you're hyped for the movie and then you hear someone not like it, it's like, oh, you know, like, you're like, damn it. You know, like, how did that person not like it? You know, and it's like, it does mess with your mood. So I, I, strictly avoid reviews,
00:01:49
Speaker
of movies until after I see it. After I see it, then I click on all the YouTube videos to watch and begin my comparison. Which I haven't done for this movie, by the way. I actually haven't done even the next. I wanted to i wanted to save everything for the pod.
00:02:03
Speaker
Then I'll go into look at stuff. I did look at this one It wasn't a review, though. it was more of like, oh, things you might have missed in Wicked. Oh, yeah. These people called ah New Rockstars are pretty awesome. they Oh, I know them. Heavy, heavy breakdown, which was great.
00:02:18
Speaker
They were really good. Just really, really good. But that wasn't a review. That was just like a
Detailed Review of 'Wicked for Good'
00:02:22
Speaker
breakdown. So, yeah, you guys are going to our 100% pure, unfiltered thoughts on Wicked for good. so Yes. ah Mel, are you why don't... No, you are the wicked... You want me to go first?
00:02:38
Speaker
I mean, you are the wicked queen here. you are This is your movie. This is the one you had circled at the beginning of the year. This is the movie you had circled. That's true. I can't believe it. i need to i need to hear it from you, Mel.
00:02:51
Speaker
Give us your thoughts on Wicked for Good. unwicked for good so yeah like rod said i have been waiting for this movie since november 21st or 20th of last year which honestly and it flew by like the fact that we're already here again is baffling like i feel like almost that like i just saw the first one so that year really did fly by which hey i figured it would happen anyway um Now, my thoughts about this film is, like so the movie ended and i was and i was with my friend and I was like not saying anything. He's like, oh, so what did you think? I was like, I feel like I need to like w re like have to have a moment like to myself to like think about how I really felt about this movie. And also I feel like this is going to be one that I have to watch again because it was so different, kind of like you were saying before, right? It was so different to the first one. and like you as well, like I haven't seen the musical in probably like over 20 years. So it's been like a really long time. Like I remember like most of it, like I knew like the the beats, but i' like I didn't remember like, oh, like did how did that happen or how did we get here? But for the most part, like it was pretty much like the musical. And i think that that's the reason why this movie already, you're kind of going in with,
00:04:12
Speaker
a very, I knew that I had to go into a different mindset because for me, the first movie is very bright and there's so many good songs. It's like hit after hit after hit up to the end. It's this big climax, this big moment to the end of Defying Gravity, which is one of the best songs like ever and of a musical theater and also of Wicked the musical. So I knew that the second part was going to be a little bit harder for me to like probably grasp.
00:04:42
Speaker
Um, so overall, like, I think I, I, I liked this movie, but I didn't love it as much as I loved the first one. And I think I just need to like rewatch it just so I can like probably gather some like, you know, things I missed or I was like, Oh, actually i like this a little bit more than I thought I did or something because at the first watch to me, like the first half was really like, okay, so I'm ready. Let's get to the, especially because I knew that I needed to get to the Jonathan Bailey, Cynthia Erivo. We know you did. We know you wanted to get to that. I was like, we need to get to As Long As You're Mine, because I knew that after As Long As You're Mine is when the story really
00:05:29
Speaker
Takes off, yeah. Takes off and we're like, okay, okay, okay, okay. We get all the the bigger known songs. Like the first beginning is like, it's like, okay, this song.
00:05:41
Speaker
okay, don't really like the song. Okay, can we move on? Okay, I don't like, because it's a musical, right? And I feel like the second half of this musical ah was has always been the weakest part, um ah especially song-wise. And because the first one has so many good songs, you're like able to be like, like it's literally like wizard of ah Wizard and I, what is this feeling? um Dancing Through Life.
00:06:06
Speaker
Into popular, into defined graphic. It's just like go, go, go. like Every song. Hit after hit. Hit after hit. and And there's also like choreography and it's lively. And this, I felt like this movie never had that. this This movie's music is like the sophomore album from that artist that had their first album just be such a big hit that the second album was like okay. It's different. song it's It's different. yeah You know? like look yeah we We've had artists where they do that. when hell they That first album is really good. It has like
00:06:40
Speaker
four or five bangers on it and then when they drop that sophomore album you're just like okay it it has some songs and it's it's good it's just yeah yeah you know that i i see where you're coming from though and in your statement i get yeah like that's that's like how it felt and i like just in general this movie just felt a little bit more like i already knew it was a darker film like there's a time jump they're like yeah I knew that this the side is like she gets, you know, oh, I melted, you know, all but like, you know, but this is like the part that strings, you you know, Wizard of Oz with the musical, right? Yeah, yeah, Happening at the same time. Yes.
00:07:21
Speaker
But i I just, I think this movie where i feel like it needed something would have been nice if there was just something a little bit a little bit more
Themes and Societal Reflections
00:07:31
Speaker
lively. I feel like every song is just like,
00:07:34
Speaker
very very like sad or just like kind of slow but the only song you have that's like a is for ah no good deed right with that was actually now it that was one of the good ones yeah which is like her other like defying gravity kind of song right like that's the other one that is like really good but like it's also like it's not necessarily like a hopeful song it's it's like really sad right and then every other number like if you if you think about it if you think about the first movie, almost there are so many songs that have an ensemble.
00:08:09
Speaker
One Short Day, um the beginning, you know, the the first song, What Is This Feeling, Dancing Through Life. These are all ensemble ensemble numbers. And I feel like when you have music that that shows the ensemble also in it, like dancing, it brings it to life. And this movie never really had that. So it was kind of, it kind of,
00:08:31
Speaker
like dipped there. So to me, the first half of the movie was just like, okay. Like kind of just like wanted to get to like, as long as your mind, because I think the movie does get better from there to the end. really, like, I'm not saying I didn't cry. I definitely shed, I definitely shed tears like at the end with for good. And cause that song, like anytime, like the first line I've heard it said, i'm just like, ah,
00:08:57
Speaker
they got me like i'm just like sobbing by the end and then like the way that the end did it like a great shot with the poster like thing i don't know if you noticed that yeah i noticed that no i didn't notice i noticed it afterwards yeah like that's what it was like the homage to it like brilliant and like what a great way to end a film like i was like okay john mq like i see you i see you that was good that was a very good um But I can see like for how this movie to me, for people who are musical fans, they're going to be like, yes, this was everything. I loved it. And then there's going to be the people who aren't musical fans. that might be General audiences. General audiences. Might be like, oh, it was okay. Or it wasn't as good as the first one. curious. I'm curious to see how it does on the second week.
00:09:47
Speaker
um in the box office. That's true, because the first one, right, I feel like a lot of people went and rewatched it because they loved it so much. they it was a lot of rewatching. um So I do wonder how this... The rewatchability of part one yes is phenomenal. it's just It just is. It just really, really is. I really don't wonder...
00:10:07
Speaker
Part two, how is how is that how is the rewatchability going to be? is it going to do the second, third week of the box office in regards to what it pulls in? Might it have pulled its big amount on the first week, you know? Yeah. We'll see. like is Yeah. We'll have to wait and see. Cause also Zootopia comes out. So i wonder, I'm like, is Zootopia going to knock it down or is it still going to its place? All these things. So yeah, that is true. yeah Um, but but, but my last note here before I ask you your thoughts, um,
00:10:43
Speaker
I think that this movie also had like some, did have some really standout performances though, aside from like, it's just like the story. It's just like, at the end of the day, John M. Chu could only work with what he has, right? Because at the end of the day, he's not going to go and just switch the musical effect too, right? He has to keep it- No, you got to keep it close to the stage. To the actual musical, right? Because clinically, this movie is based off of the musical. It's not based off of the book.
00:11:15
Speaker
Yes, you know exactly. Because a lot of people don't know that, that this movie is this movie and musical is based off of a book. Of a book. But the book is like... so Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, very, very different. And it's funny because I was... i was i There were some things that were said in a video that I saw regarding the book. And i was like, oh, okay. And then I was like, shit, well, if that changed, why didn't why didn't John M. Chu change some stuff here? And then I was like, well...
00:11:40
Speaker
It's based off of the musical, not the book. So technically speaking, you know, he did a good job because he followed through on what he was doing on stage. Like he, like, yeah, like they added some, like he could add some things or change like little things. But for the most part, it has to pretty much follow the musical, right?
00:11:57
Speaker
Pretty much. So... like I think he did the best with like what he had. I think the the movie looked really nice. like I can't say didn't like I thought it looked nice. i thought the costumes were, oh my God, the costumes are beautiful. like Glinda's outfits in this, i was like, oh my God.
00:12:13
Speaker
They might win the Oscar again for the costumes. Yeah, they could he could. Paul Tazwell. Tazwell. yeah Very, very good costumes. um Oh my God, I have so much to say about the ah the Tin Man and the Scarecrow.
00:12:28
Speaker
I have so much to say about that. um but But we can talk about that little after when when we talk about what your thoughts are. So yeah, go go go ahead. before All right. I got to say, I agree with a lot of what you said. um I think when the movie ended, I liked it.
00:12:48
Speaker
um You know, I... And we had a really good crowd, which i love to see. You know, we went and watched it in the Alamo Draft House and movie theater. and And it was just it was a really good crowd. Oh, it ended in applause. It was really nice.
00:13:06
Speaker
um And then like i just started thinking about it in the group that I was with, my wife, my daughter, my sister-in-law, were just kind of conversing about it. Oh, did Yanisa go too? Yeah, she went. And yeah, like we all we all kind of like felt the same thing, that it was ah it was a heavier movie than the first one.
00:13:23
Speaker
um You know, a lot of the a lot of the the the themes in the movie, which I give i give John and Drew credit. A lot of the themes of the movie echo and mirror our society today, which I do appreciate, you know, when movies do that, because it it gives you an insight into your own world.
00:13:45
Speaker
And then it
Character Dynamics and Relationships
00:13:46
Speaker
makes you, as an audience member, like understand you know what's going on in the world of the movie, too. You know what I mean? it hit certain moment moment Certain moments hit harder because you compare, oh this happening to Bach and his people is something that's happening people in this world. You know what i mean? So it's it's one of those things where it's just like, oh, shit. you know So I give John M. Chu a lot of credit for doing that and putting it on screen in that way you know what i mean yeah because that's not in the musical yeah i love that i thought that was really really good i thought that was a really good kind of social commentary on things in this world um but yeah i do agree with you i i feel like there was the joy of this movie wasn't there
00:14:32
Speaker
But I know it wasn't supposed to be because I know yeah this second movie dealt with the fact that the first how the first movie ended where essentially Elphaba embraced being you know the Wicked Witch. Yeah.
00:14:47
Speaker
And it was kind of like a this movie is kind of like the farce of of keeping those appearances. you know And we have Galinda and we have Fierro trying to keep up appearances Yeah.
00:15:01
Speaker
um for the sakes of Elphaba, you know, and I feel like, like I was very conflicted because, you know, I know Fierro loved Elphaba and that's, and that's, that's how it is. I felt bad for Galinda because Galinda had this, this kind of hope of Fierro and, and,
00:15:27
Speaker
And it was just like, you know, Fiero, when the whole marriage part came up and and she asked Fiero like, oh, you know, are you, you know, are you happy? Oh, i all you know, I'm always happy. And it's like, as a man, to will say this, as a man, that's how we are.
00:15:47
Speaker
Men were very much, were very simple creatures. I like i liken myself i liken myself to a to i always say i like myself to a blunt object, like ah like a hammer. I just keep going. yeah And if you tell me, oh how are you doing? I'm hum happy.
00:16:03
Speaker
i yeah my not I'm not really happy, but I'm saying this because it's like I'm supposed to... Because in that case, Fiera was also keeping up appearances to Glinda as well. To Glinda, yeah. and He was keeping up appearances on on on on on a few ends because he wasn't happy. He wasn't with the one that he really loved.
00:16:20
Speaker
Yeah. um And I felt bad for, for Glenda. That, that, that, that was, that was, that was tough for me. But then at the same time, I'm like, you know what, Glenda, you're tasting some of the medicine that you gave to Bach in the first movie where you kind of like, you kind gaslit Bach and like, Oh yeah, look at, um, look at Nessa, you know, she's this and that. So i was like, Oh shit, you know,
00:16:43
Speaker
She's kind of getting her medicine kind of fed back to her. Oh, I didn't think about that. Yeah. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? So it's, it's, it's, there's a lot of that in this part and that's why part two, I just feel like it would it's a harder to watch.
00:16:55
Speaker
It's a harder to watch. I want to see it again because I do feel like maybe if i do it and give it a second watch, I will give it a, I might give it a higher grade than how I feel now about it. Because again, a second, a second set of eyes on it.
00:17:10
Speaker
you You do see a little bit more things, you know what I mean? um I agree the performances I think were really, really good. think the standout, I believe i we were saying that the standout was um was Ariana Grande. I think this movie definitely focused more on her yeah character a lot.
00:17:28
Speaker
I'm not saying that Elphaba and Fierro didn't have, but I think this really kind of focused on Galinda. She kind of took charge in this one. And I thought she was really, really good. I thought she did a really good job.
00:17:42
Speaker
Obviously, Cynthia Erivo, Elphaba, she just, you know, she's always she's always phenomenal. She's always great. She steals all the scenes she's in because she's just a phenomenal talent.
00:17:56
Speaker
Um... Let me see, where else am I at here? I think the direction of the movie was really, really good. Again, I give credit to to John Chu for putting this on screen in such a way that, you know, again, if you haven't seen the play and then you so and then you see the movie,
00:18:15
Speaker
you're so you're literally seeing the play. you know You're just seeing it through this just fresh, just beautiful lens that John Chu just puts up on screen. and you know John Chu can shoot a beautiful movie. Yeah.
00:18:30
Speaker
He really can. i do i do wish there was a little bit... i How can I say this? I don't want to say this in a disrespectful way. i I did get some...
00:18:44
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like I got some in-studio vibe from this. From certain scenes. that i Like it felt like they filmed like a lot of stuff like in a studio and outside. In a studio, like in a yes. And i and i was like I was like, I don't know. why Why am I getting this? Is it because of the color grading? Is it just because of... I don't know. like it just it didn't it didn't that part i that Those are things that i wasn't i wasn't too big on.
00:19:13
Speaker
Oh, interesting. Okay. but But again, it wasn't enough to take me out of the movie. It wasn't something that was oh I was like, can't look at this. No, it wasn't because there's a lot of beautiful shots. There's a lot of personal shots.
00:19:25
Speaker
There's a lot of really beautiful homages in the movie. there's a lot There's just a lot of really, really nice things that i that i that I can truly appreciate about what he did as a director for this movie. And then, obviously, we talked about the music. I think the music was, you know, beautiful.
00:19:44
Speaker
Obviously, the the one with Cynthia Erivo about, ah was it a no No Good Deed Undone? Is that what it was? The big one? The big number? Yeah, yeah the big number. No Good Deed. yeah that was awesome. That was just like...
00:19:59
Speaker
She's just like, yo, fuck it. Like, I'm just, I'm all in now. And it was just like. I'll be bad. Yeah, I'll be bad. And I thought that was really, really cool. That was just like, yo, that's it. That's what you want. This what you want. This is what you're going to get. And I dug that whole thing. That was awesome, man.
00:20:15
Speaker
And then the last track, you're right. It was a very emotional. Forehood. Oh, my God. Just hit the heart, man. It hit the heart. Yeah. Right there.
00:20:26
Speaker
And the the part, we i don't know if you've heard about the with the door. but That's a big moment. Have you heard anything the thing about the door? No,
Director's Choices and Narrative Arcs
00:20:34
Speaker
no, no. So, you know the scene, like, it's, like, after they've sung and Elphaba's, like, here, go in the closet, right? Before she melts, right?
00:20:43
Speaker
And then, like, she closes the door and there's that, the shot of them on either of the door and they're like, crying. Yeah. Supposedly, that was, like, imp improvised. Like, that was it in the script. So, in the rehearsal, John M. Chu was saying that, like, they were doing it and then...
00:20:59
Speaker
like, they just kept rolling and that happened and they kept it. Like, it wasn't, like, actually... Yeah, because, like, you could tell that that moment actually was very real to these both... One, the characters, but I think also the actors because you know how much these roles have meant to Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande, right? See, that's what i'm talking about, man. Yeah, so, like...
00:21:21
Speaker
You really felt it in that moment that this was like literally like tears of like, like real tears, is not like I'm like acting like this is like all part of like how I'm feeling in this moment.
00:21:33
Speaker
i just song I just sang a song. I've been on this like crazy adventure. Like, you know, it's like. how they actually felt as actors. So it was really beautiful. Everybody has been talking about that. See, that's that that's that's what I was talking about with with with with John and Shua. Like, I got to give him credit for those type. those are the decision See, those are decisions that, you know, if you don't know, you you don't know. And most directors, most directors, when they shoot, they shoot a lot.
00:21:58
Speaker
yeah People but don't know this. A director will shoot so many scenes. There are so many shots of the... So many different shots of the same scene. Different angles, different lighting. Like, it's crazy.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yeah. But for John Chu to be like, you know what? I like this. Let's keep this. that First of all, that's a risk. Because remember, as we said before, we talked about the movie, the show, the studio. They'll screen the movies. Yeah.
00:22:26
Speaker
And I could imagine John Chu was probably fighting to keep that scene in. Because as you know, a lot of these a lot of these producers will watch these movies and they'll be like, you know, do we really need that? You know, that wasn't on the that wasn't in the on the Broadway and version of the show. so you know. This is something that doesn't necessarily need to be in it. You know what i mean? Like, these are things. So, I could see him probably fighting to keep that in.
00:22:50
Speaker
And maybe the actress is probably, like, behind the scenes, like, yo, you gotta keep that scene. You gotta keep that scene. You know? But I'm glad he did. That's a beautiful moment. And I think that's nice. I think that that actually propelled that scene even more in regards to what happened. You know what I mean? um Because it's... endia And the whole ending. You know, how sad it is. And... um someone had said i was talking to one of my friends so like I was talking to one of my friends because in the movie, right, or in the musical, right, at the end, you know how at the end of the movie, before the final shot, the book opens for Glinda? That doesn't happen in the musical either. i think that that was like an added thing. um
00:23:31
Speaker
But somebody said, as having ah it was ah actually a friend that I used to work on the cruise ships with. We always like chat about like this kind stuff. And she was like, I said, man, but it's so sad that like, you know, um That she thinks that they're like dead, right? And then she's like, you know what? She's like, hear me out. She's like, I think that Glinda knows that they're not dead.
00:23:53
Speaker
But she has to play the part and has to let just let it go because that's the decision that she's made. But she's like, I really don't think that Glinda would be stupid enough to believe that literally water melted her.
00:24:05
Speaker
so like I mean, i guess that is true. Like, there is that scene with, um it was in the beginning where we see Fierro and Glinda talking behind the thing. And he's just like, oh my god, people will believe anything. Like, oh yeah, like water's gonna melt her, you know? And it's like, would Glinda really be that stupid to actually believe that water melted her? Mm-hmm.
00:24:28
Speaker
You know, like, I was like, i I guess that's true. I was like, I mean, that those are things that, you know, it's going to be in your mind, right? Because it's never been like answered because it's just, that's what the musical is, right? That she just is like, yep, ah she died. But did she really die? Or is it more like she has to just let let let her go because it's the only way to make it through? Because it is really, really sad. think that's what it is, though. I think you actually you nailed it right there. It was like, It's not that she's dead. It's the fact that she had to let her go.
00:25:00
Speaker
Yeah. so She had to, in her, in her eye and in her heart, know that I'm never going to see her again. Yeah. it's that gotta come back my me cry right now was i At the same time, it's like, at the at the same time, you know, she looked at the whole Fiero situation and, you know.
00:25:17
Speaker
That's a person that she loved, that she genuinely was in love with. And and it was already hard enough to find out that the person you love doesn't love you back, but actually loves like, you know, your, your, friend your best, your friend, your best friend. But then it's also another thing to like, have to let go of your best friend who, who you,
00:25:36
Speaker
been through some traumatic shit through with, you know what mean? That's hard. That's hard. That's a hard thing to do for anyone in any walk of life. So, again, this is why this sequel, it's more of a Galinda movie than anything else. Yes, definitely. Because it's a lot of sacrifice on her part.
00:25:59
Speaker
You know, a lot of people don't see that, but it is a lot of sacrifice on her part. Yeah, Galinda had to go and... I mean, i doing not Galinda, I'm sorry, Elphaba had to go away with Fierro. And yeah, fa fiara Fierro essentially sacrificed himself.
00:26:13
Speaker
yeah in the process to that scene was that scarecrow yeah that was that was sad you know but but galinda was the one that was like really sacrificing a lot of stuff because she was out there she was the public face of the wizard and of mad and marvel and of all these plans you know she was one that was out there quote-unquote fighting the good fight you know what i mean and it was all it was all bs it kind of reminds me of um Of The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises where in the whole Dark Knight Rises, you know, you find out that all the whole Harvey Dent thing was a lie. It was all made up by Jim Gordon. And, you know, Batman took the fall. Like it wasn't, it wasn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it reminded me a lot of that where it's like, oh, shit, you know, like, like she's kind of essentially doing what, um, what.
00:27:00
Speaker
You know what Batman did and in the Dark Knight where he was like, yo, like, you know, you can you can hunt me. You can you can stick. Yeah. And the and yeah yeah and and and essentially that's what they were doing in this movie. You know, any time AlphaGo would show up and start flying in the sky and and leave a message with Mario Marvel Switch. But, you know, they would make it in this whole menacing thing and it would be Fierro who would be leading the charge.
00:27:23
Speaker
you know But then it's like Elphaba was so in the shit. She was so like knee deep into being the the Wicked Witch of the West that that moment when Fiyero puts the gun at her and she like genuinely thought like, yo, this guy's going to shoot me.
00:27:40
Speaker
And when that switch happened, she was like, oh, snap. you know She's like, wait. how deep That's how deep she was into being this person. where She almost kind of lost herself a little bit, too. You know what I mean? Because, again, it's like it's like it's it's almost like like when you have cops and cops are undercover, like deep undercover. Sometimes there's cops that they they they go so deep undercover that they kind of lose their sense of. Yeah.
00:28:08
Speaker
of quote unquote good, you know what I mean? Because they're so deep on the cover. And with Alphaba she was like, not that she was undercover, but essentially, you know, she was trying- It reminds me of 21 Jump Street star. Oh yeah. So he's like, he's like, I go college. I get in and he's just like, dude, you're way too deep. Exactly. he's so undercover and so into it that he's forgotten what the real thing is. That's what I kept thinking about when you were saying that. I gotta rewatch that. That movie's hilarious. Those movies are top notch. Real good. But in regards to... Not that she was undercover. It's just that she was just like, you know, if this is how you guys are going to treat me, I'm going to use your rage...
00:28:55
Speaker
that you're not telling I'm going to use it against you. And then you you know we see her trying to free the animals, really you know try to like do all
Character Transformations and Supporting Roles
00:29:02
Speaker
those things. But then it's scary because when she frees the animals, she kind of notices like, oh shit, you know like these animals fear me.
00:29:09
Speaker
Again, I'm going to take it back to a Batman reference where in the Batman where yeah where when when you know Robert Pattinson's beating the crap out of the dude at the beginning of the movie and he goes to the he goes to the to the older man who he rescued, And the older man's like backing away because he's scared of him. Yeah. Because because everybody in this Gotham City looks at Batman not as a hero, but as like a as ah as ah as ah as a vengeance, as as a yeah dangerous vigilante. And Elphaba is treated the same way. She's looked at upon, even by the animals that she rescues.
00:29:42
Speaker
She's looked at upon as like someone to fear because, you know, the, the, the, the wizard has put this propaganda out there. And that's another thing, man, like all this propaganda that was used again, this is all just, this is all a mirror image of our world, you know, yeah all this propaganda that was used to, to, to, to defame Elphaba and, and what she did, all the lies that were changed, everything, you know what i mean? Again, these are all things that, mirror our real world, you know? And, you know, Mel, let me just let me just switch a little bit here and and go to the villains of the movie.
00:30:19
Speaker
Now, there's villains in this movie. There's lots of villains. There's like several villains in this movie. Several. And I wonder if how you're going to feel about these villains. Now, now obviously, the wizard with the wizard was a villain because he was a villain, essentially. All the actions that he did in the first movie and then this movie. So, you know, he was villain A. Madame Morrible, villain, you know, I'd say 1A also because Madame Morrible was...
00:30:47
Speaker
pretty much the one pulling the strings. She was like puppeteer in a way. Yeah, she was pulling the strings. Yeah. And then the unexpected villain was good old little Nessa. Nessa was oof, man.
00:31:02
Speaker
You want to talk about, you want to talk about just like, yo, like, you know, like, you're going to be mine and you're not going to belong to anyone else. Nessa just took that shit to heart, yo. Nessa said,
00:31:13
Speaker
Okay, then you're never leaving. Go. Guess what? You ain't going anywhere, dog. You're going to work for me
00:31:22
Speaker
And then she, in her good mind, she's like, you're here because you want to, you're here because you like to be here. No, bitch. He's here because he can't go anywhere. Because of the rules you set. You know what I mean? That was messed up. That was messed up. So yeah, she was a villain. And it's crazy because, you know, keep going. No, no, no, no. I just thought that there might be another villain.
00:31:51
Speaker
Oh, yeah. um ah First of all, let me just, oh, whoa well, Bach. Bach had Bach, man, let me tell you. but Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, well, you see, that's the thing. Nessa kind of birthed that.
00:32:03
Speaker
I mean, granted, yeah, you can say, well, it wasn't Nessa, it was Elphaba, but essentially, though, it was Nessa that started doing it. No, it was Nessa's fault. It was Nessa, right? Yeah, because the one who started like, oh, I need i need to i need to fix it or whatever, and then or I need to make him stay, or forget what it was. yeah then she started Which is kind of cool because she started reading from it. Oh, shit, so she's got power, too, because she's reading from it. You know what I mean? So anyway, but like she birthed that, and Bach became like a I was like, dude, urges you're just... You're bad place, dog. Like, you're like... you're you're What's going on oh You need therapy, dude. The memes have been so good. Because... So, you know the scene where he, like, is, like, talking, like, right when they're about to go... Yeah, to the crowd. yeah yeah And he's just like, I have a personal vendetta, right? And I mean, that was really good. like I had have to give like my props to Ethan Slater in this movie. Yeah, he was good. He was really, really He very good.
00:33:00
Speaker
But somebody's, I think the memes have been like, oh my God, where are they? Of like Bach being like, um hold on, musical. Bully Bach. Bully Bach.
00:33:11
Speaker
Memes.
00:33:14
Speaker
about him, like, being a musical, like, they're like, this is what happens when you have, like, a musical theater kid that finally has his moment because he's so good in it. Like, you could see that he's, like, been wanting to, like, be in this position for so long as, like, a musical theater kid. And I think he had said that, like, he he had auditioned for Bach on in the musical like year like years ago years years ago he never he didn't get it so like this is like his moment where he's like that's cool oh my musical time it's finally here it's my time to show my moment you know I like the transformation, man. The transformation from Bach to the Tin Man was actually pretty scary. I thought that was very good. It was scary. And then he was coming with the axe.
00:33:55
Speaker
That shit was terrifying. terrible so like that that was like the like the Shining. Shining, yeah. He's like, here's Johnny. Yeah, that's what I thought. I thought that was really, really good. Yo, that look that he gave Ariana Grande at the end. He just like snarred that.
00:34:10
Speaker
i like shit I was like, did people, and people were asking, they like, oh, did she like recognize him? Like, oh shit, that's Bach? oh Yeah, that's what was wondering. I think but she did. She did. She probably did because she was looking at at and at at him. and And he was looking at her like, you know who I am.
00:34:29
Speaker
And, you know, I'm going to throw another villain into that that that. I don't know. Maybe you don't consider this person a villain. fucking cowardly lion Oh my God. He's a fucking Karen. Okay. That's a Karen.
00:34:43
Speaker
All right. I hope what should have left him in the cage. Yeah. Leave that motherfucker in the cage. That was wild. I don't give
Casting Decisions and Character Depth
00:34:51
Speaker
a damn. Fuck you. Fuck you.
00:34:54
Speaker
um against scar so scar could throw you off a cliff Get out of here. That was wild that she's just like, oh, she took me out of my cage. And I'm like, isn't that a good thing?
00:35:05
Speaker
people People were mad, though, because like they like the fact that they got Coleman Domingo for that and he only had like two were like two lines. That's a waste. That was a as a waste. That is waste.
00:35:17
Speaker
like How do you have Coleman Domingo and like literally- that dude could That dude could have been a part. He could have had a part. Whole part, but people were like, okay, I'm going to say something. I'm going to say something. I'm going to say something. It might be controversial.
00:35:30
Speaker
Oh, okay. cause I don't know how you feel about this. Cause now that we mentioned Coleman Domingo and we mentioned how he was in this movie and cause I don't know how you feel about this, this person to say, cause I'm essentially going to, I'm essentially going to change a person's, uh, an actor for a role that they had.
00:35:48
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:35:51
Speaker
What would you have thought about Coleman Domingo playing the wizard? Oh, I thought you were just going to, I thought that's what you were going to go with this. Yeah.
00:36:01
Speaker
I mean, don't, I mean, I think he would have, I think he would have killed it. Oh, he would have killed it. i think he would have killed it And I like Jeff Goldblum a lot. Yes, I like Jeff Goldblum a lot. But there's some... And then it's funny because I feel like Jeff Goldblum in this part, in this movie... I liked him more.
00:36:20
Speaker
I liked him more. I liked the music more. Yeah. i didn't I wasn't a fan of his song in the first movie. Like, I don't know, just didn't jive with me. This one, though, it kind of it kind of felt it. Like, it felt like it was, like, very old-timey. It felt good. It sounded good. I was like, okay. But now we mentioned Coleman Domingo, and I'm like, damn, Coleman Domingo would have been like good really good fucking wizard. Like, he he would have had the pizzazz and everything about it. You know what mean? Does he sing He probably does. like i guess That guy's so fucking talented. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. He probably He's also black. As weird as that sounds.
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah. He's a black actor. Like, usually they can sing. Yeah, he's he see's a, he's he's just, he's a, he's yeah, that would have been good. I think he would have, I think he would have nailed it. Okay, and then another,
00:37:08
Speaker
i and And I know I'm not the only one.
00:37:13
Speaker
Watching this movie... Man. Madame Horrible. Oh, yeah. Just didn't hit.
00:37:24
Speaker
Michelle Yeoh just didn't hit. And I love Michelle Yeoh. I think Michelle Yeoh is just tremendous actress. Obviously Oscar award winner. i just... What do you think is it? Is it because you think is it because like she can't sing? Or is it just because like the role isn't made for her?
00:37:43
Speaker
I think the role. I think it's the role. I don't think it's about the singing aspect. I just i can't think the singing is pretty bad. The yeah singing isn't great, but i just i don't I think it's the role. I don't know. like i I kind of have a hard time seeing Michelle Yeoh play that character.
00:38:02
Speaker
You know what I mean? Because, I mean, granted, we've seen Michelle Yeoh play an antagonist because in in Crazy Rich Asians, she was, for that, for a majority of that movie, she was an antagonist. Yeah. Oh, she's so good. Oh, another John M. Shue.
00:38:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's, he's, she's his good luck charm. I think that's the, that's the thing with, with her and being in in the movie. But, I don't know, man. like Like, one of my issues, okay, one of my issues, and I and i and i and i so and i told this to Alfie, my wife, about with this movie.
00:38:35
Speaker
I feel like when Madame Morbould kind gets her come up until the end, like, I feel like it's too easy. I'm like, wait a minute. You are a witch. You're, like, powerful. Like, Like, bitch, you control the weather. You're storm, essentially. Yeah. And it's like, I just feel like, it's like, you know, Ariana is like, oh, you know, she says what she says. it was just nice. It was cool, sassy.
00:38:55
Speaker
But I just feel like it was tweezy. Like, it was just like a very, like, up, up, up, up. Okay. Like, you what would have loved? This is what I would have loved. And I know it would have changed things, but I think it would have been really cool. Have Madame Morrible, like, show her power to intimidate Galinda and And then use that moment to show that Galinda actually does have magic and she like has more power than her. like She sits down like, oh my God. I think that would have got the theater like, everybody would have been high. Because think it would have been more of like earned, like even more than than than the book opening to her like in the end. i think I think that moment would have been even better because you would have A,
00:39:43
Speaker
you know surpassed the person who was essentially looking down at you though the entire the entire two movies. And then you would have proven to her, look i have power I have power too. it happens but I have more power than you.
00:39:57
Speaker
you know You just chose not to see me or give me the chance. you know like I think that would have been much cooler than the way she kind of went. Because it was very just like like Yeah, but that's like on the musical. I know, but you know, that's why i feel like of I feel like there could have been a little bit of a liberty there taken with that. You know what I mean? cause it is Yeah, because even in the musical, like it never comes out that she gets powers. Yeah, because that's what I'm saying. So they already changed They already changed it at the end, essentially with the book opening up. So if you're going to do that, then you could have done something similar to that.
00:40:31
Speaker
You know, because again, it's like Madame Morrible's like, wait, she's she's really powerful. And what? She's just going And granted, listen, I understand because when I was ah was speaking to my wife and i was saying, well, Madame Morrible's demise, I wasn't big on it, but I understand why it happened because usually people in that situation who are empowered by people who are in power, yeah which her her power was the fact that she was the wizard's right-hand person.
00:41:02
Speaker
So the minute the wizard like leave lost left left Lost the power. And then, you know, the the truth came out about about everything, you know, behind the scenes.
00:41:14
Speaker
You know, she lost her power. She literally lost her power. You know, so I understand that. But i don't know, man. I just feel like visually it would have been much cooler that we see that, you know, Galinda stop Madame Marble.
00:41:30
Speaker
um you know with the ability of actually having magic because again the whole the whole movie everything was oh this is all a forest like oh you're flying because you know the wizard made it so you have this really cool bubble thing because the wizard made it so this wand that you're carrying it's it's not it's all for show yeah it would have been really cool that it'd be like okay, it was for show before, but guess what?
00:41:53
Speaker
I actually do have magic and I'm more powerful than you. I think that would have been so dope. i think that yeah cro I think that would have been such a crowd moment yeah right then and there because it's almost reward.
00:42:07
Speaker
it's almost and it's almost a reward to Galinda for putting up with Madame Marble's shit. You know what I mean? Because oh let's be Madame Marble was being really shitty to her. you know Oh my God, the whole time. Putting her down all all the time. You know what I mean? Looking at her with disgust.
00:42:26
Speaker
So yeah, I think that would have been cool. But i listen, granted, I know it didn't happen. and it it It is what it is. But yeah, Madame Marble...
00:42:35
Speaker
This movie was very, very noticeable. yeah Alfie actually sent me, um what's her name? The black woman from Abbott Elementary. Oh, yeah. Cheryl Lee Roth. Yeah, because she did the part on Broadway. And Alfie sent me this clip of when they were interviewing Cheryl on the red carpet for something. they're like, oh, you were mad and horrible. And she was like, yeah. And then in her typical Cheryl, I love her. love her so much. She's awesome. She's like, goes to the camera, she like does the lines from like, like does the whole like monologue and she's so good. And that's Alfie messes me like, oh man, like she would have been so good if like it was her. I'm like, it would have been an all black cast at that point.
00:43:20
Speaker
Coleman Domingo was the wizard. It would have been, though it would have been, um, like the wiz, the wiz, the wiz. It would have been turned into The Wiz. It would no longer be wicked. I ain't got anything wrong with that shit. No. You be the best for the best. I'm fine with that. No, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But okay, I want to talk about... What did you think about Jonathan Bailey as the Scarecrow?
00:43:44
Speaker
Because there was a lot being said about it. Have you heard? No, I haven't. um I didn't have a problem with it. i kind of liked how it looked. I liked how he looked like he was like a sack.
00:43:55
Speaker
And stuff. And I did hear one thing. so someone said Someone said that he looked like... yeah Ryan Reynolds. Yes. I can't unsee it now. If you look it up, if you see a picture of like just like a screenshot of it, I can't unsee it now.
00:44:13
Speaker
like I'm like, oh, fuck, it's true. It's weird. It is so weird because he people are like, how is this not the same thing?
00:44:23
Speaker
If you see a screenshot of it, you won't unsee it. I gotta find it. It's really weird because it's true. I don't know because Jonathan Bailey looks absolutely nothing nothing like Ryan Reynolds, but as the scarecrow, somehow he does. It's like his eyes like have like that Ryan Reynolds, they just look like his eyes. It's weird.
00:44:44
Speaker
It's very weird. Yeah. I mean, I knew that it was going to look weird because it's like he's a scarecrow. Like he's not supposed to look like, you know, Jonathan Bailey. He's going to look kind of weird because he is a scarecrow. um Now, this is something that has always bothered me um about the about when he... And i don't know how you knew this. Okay, so you were watching the movie, right? yeah And the scarecrow gets there and he knocks on the thing and he's like, it worked. And then she comes out.
00:45:16
Speaker
I was like, did I miss something? I'm like, when did he know that she was going to be down there? And when did he like, I feel like there was like something that was missed because I was like, I'm confused. How does he know that she was there?
00:45:32
Speaker
And yeah how like that part, they never explained it. And then my friend, the one that I was talking, that i was telling you about, she was like, Oh my God. She's like, is it just me? Or, and i she's seen them. She said, she's like, I've seen the musical over six times on Broadway. And I've never understood how Fiero like knew that she was there. She said that she always believed that it was like magical, like a magical way. Like they just felt each other, like their presence. But she said that after she watched the movie the second time, she realized that the moment that it actually happens is in the part where Chiseree, Chiseree, monkey, he comes to Elphaba with that, like,
00:46:11
Speaker
with the With the thing from the uniform, was it? Yeah. So on there is pop is where it says like the plan about like him about her like hiding because this is his castle. Because I was like, at first i didn't realize that she was in his castle. until Well, yeah, because he mentioned it remember when And remember he he had mentioned like, oh, we can go to this castle. so you think I was paying attention? I was too busy hyperventilating. i like know, I know.
00:46:38
Speaker
i know like I remember like pieces, but I was too busy like being like, oh my god, what just happened? I was still like, that's why I need to watch it again so I could like actually just be like, let me take in the song and let me take in the moment. like i like I had been looking forward to this scene for like ever. so like Everything going on, I was too like...
00:46:59
Speaker
so i couldn't like um like I couldn't sit still and like actually pay attention to what they were talking about. But um I do remember him saying, like oh, I have like lots of castles. We can go to one or something. But i just didn't and it just didn't register in the moment that like that's where she ends up at the end, which would make sense then that he knows, like hey, there's a trap door there.
Connections to 'The Wizard of Oz'
00:47:18
Speaker
like You can go or whatever. um But...
00:47:23
Speaker
it is it's just It is very interesting. like I think the the parallels between keeping it Wizard of Oz with them but still being their characters is still kind of always kind of throws me off a little bit.
00:47:37
Speaker
Because you have all of them like obviously in the Wizard of Oz like Tin Man isn't like, I'm out for revenge, right? Like, it's just like, oh, we're going to go and we're going to go get the stuff for the wizard. But it's not like anything like that or even like the Scarecrow, right? Like, it's not like he's in love with the, wi you know, it's so it's weird when you watch this movie because there are so many scenes of them like walking into the wizard's thing together and he's just like, bring me the broom, right? And I'm like, so was Fierro just being like, all right, I'm just going act like I'm gonna get the broom,
00:48:10
Speaker
Yeah, and and and and I was wondering, did Fierro recognize... um The Tin Man. The Tin Man? Yeah, I don't know. Because that part's like, you never actually see them...
00:48:24
Speaker
together like you see them in like walking like to the thing or you see them walking to to the to to go and like kill her or whatever or whatever but like you never see them like interact like i don't know you just see him then just like come out and be like oh it worked whatever and then they have that scene together which was really sweet and it was very very it was a very like a beautiful moment between them and Obviously, I i want them to be together. Like, it's, like, just so, like, oh, ah love wins, even though they have to, like, pretend they're dead. But still, like, it was, like, really, like, really touching. um
00:48:58
Speaker
But, yeah, it was kind of, like, that but that whole thing kind of where it's, like, parallel, like, kind of. threw me off some of the times that I'm like, okay, so then... So, did the Tin Man just think he got his his revenge then? Like, what happens to the Tin Man after that, right? Like, it's, like, some interesting... But, I mean, that's also just, like, just me being... Yeah, like, now that I think about it, bach buck Bach got royally screwed in so many ways in this movie, man. Yeah.
00:49:27
Speaker
Like, he didn't get the he didn't get the girl he wanted. In the process, he... Him and his people were unable to leave Munchkin land. And then ah his ah his obsessed lover um says basically, like, if if you're not mine and you don't belong anybody else, he gets turned into a tin man.
00:49:53
Speaker
And then his revenge doesn't really happen because... The Wicked Witch or the West doesn't really die. No, she doesn't really die. And it was technically Dorothy who just like threw water at her or whatever, you know, like pretty silly. Yeah. And then the Wicked and then the Tin Man, what he gets his he gets heart back.
00:50:14
Speaker
I mean, you know. I don't know. He's still a tin man. doesn't really change for him. No. You know, it's... Baca... I feel bad for him. He got the short end. Baca screwed really, really bad. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. Now, one gripe I've heard from people, a friend of my wife said this. don't know you heard the same. And I think I've heard of other people say the same thing, that they felt the movie was very rushed.
00:50:43
Speaker
that Oh, I was going to say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a lot of scenes where it was just like everything was too quick. And um it was just like, I don't know. i i think it was the end.
00:50:59
Speaker
I think I want to see the that's why i want to see the movie again because I need to see it just to kind of get the grasp of it. But I did feel that there were things that was just very much just...
00:51:10
Speaker
Like, it was like the movie was trying to catch up to moments. And and there was... The in-between stuff was very, like, rushed. Very just... We jump here to jump here. You know what I mean? um And I think a lot of people felt that way from from my understanding.
00:51:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, no, I have heard that. And I did... I will say, like, even though I know how I said, like, oh, the beginning, I was just like, okay, like...
Pacing and Thematic Exploration
00:51:37
Speaker
not at ah Okay, let's get to where we need to get to or whatever, right? Like, okay, as long as you're mine. Once we get there, like this movie, it's going to like get really good, right? But I did feel that like, it also did feel a little bit rushed from like, it was like as long as you're mine, then it was like,
00:51:56
Speaker
Dorothy, and not Dorothy, Nessa gets the house dropped on her. They have that fight. he She does for she does um no good deed. And then all of a sudden we're singing for good. And I'm like, wait, how did we get here? Like it it did feel like, it did I did feel like, even though I was looking forward to like it revving up, I did feel like the by the time we got to for good, it did feel kind of rushed.
00:52:21
Speaker
and i'm like, wait, how did here? How did we get here? up Which is weird because they even added a song. They added that Ariana song, which I wasn't really a fan of. I was like, this was not necessary. This...
00:52:33
Speaker
I think that song and even our um even the other new song, No Place Like Home. like I liked No Place Like Home more than Ariana's song. But I was like, they could have done better songs. i I don't think these songs were good enough to be added. I think they should have added another and better song or a song that was a little bit more lively. Because both songs they sang were kind of just like...
00:52:56
Speaker
really sad. yeah more We don't need any more sad music. Granted, I think it would just also be kind of weird if they had like a peppy song in this movie. i don't think i think i think now that now that I'm talking to you about it and we're going through it, but you wouldn mean movie wasn't this is not preppy. ah it's not It's not happy. It's not joyful. It's not it's not that.
00:53:18
Speaker
This movie is very much, again, we talked about it. It's about sacrifices made. And I think that's the theme of the movie, though. I think the theme the movie is sacrifices. It's just such a heavy thing. The sacrifice is made by Elphaba. The sacrifice is made by Fierro, by Galinda. These are all sacrifices. Even the wizard. The sacrifice wizard made where he went away, essentially.
00:53:42
Speaker
yeah you know he's sacrificing his the the city that he helped build you know what i mean like it's that's the big big theme of this of this uh of this part too it's it's the sacrifice that all these characters have made and and and the tough decisions that they had to make um and again i think it's i think it's a mirror to our world it's something i've said multiple times in the set in this episode it's a mirror to this world where you know It's like John M. Chu is telling us, the audience, like you know if you want your world to get better, you guys are going to have to make sacrifices too. you know Some of these sacrifices might be hard, but you're going to have to do it for the you know for the better, for the greater good.
00:54:26
Speaker
You know what I mean? Because... You know, you can't keep going the way you're going because if you do, then, you know, what, you know, what more do you have left? You know what I mean? You can't keep going in the same cycles that you've been doing because it's just, it's all, it's all essentially BS. Like we saw with the wizard for so long, you know, boasting being this all powerful person, but you know, he's, he's essentially ah a sham. He's a con artist. He's a party. You know what I mean? That's what he is. And he said it in that song, which, you know, um,
00:54:56
Speaker
i think I think it was actually a really good number. I dug it and I liked the fact that he kind of, he may he labeled himself that. And it's kind of him, again, it's kind of him, ah i mean, I think he always knew that's what he was, but for him to say the quiet part out loud like that, I think that was enough to like, let us know, okay, um there's, you know, there's ah there's chinks in the armor and cracks in the and and in the concrete,
00:55:25
Speaker
you know, this guy, his power is going to start to crumble because usually when you hear people say stuff like that out loud, it's because they know, you know, that there's pretty much standing on a house of cards.
00:55:37
Speaker
And he, he, he realized, you know, Elphaba is going to pretty much blast my, my, my, my inabilities out there. Galinda is trying to, you know, have her play ball, but it's not working. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, again, i think the wizard was in a situation where he's like, yeah, I got to go. I can't stop I got to go. I don't really have a choice, really.
00:56:04
Speaker
Yeah, i don't have a choice, really. Yeah.
Future Film Speculations
00:56:06
Speaker
Yeah. But, yeah, I think, yeah, I think, you know, to to to wrap this up, I do feel that, yeah, I think rewatching it, I think will...
00:56:18
Speaker
will help us like kind of I think digest it a little bit better and kind of see if we still feel the same way or if it was like oh you know what actually after a second watch I think I liked it a lot more or if we feel or do we see more you know things that we were like oh actually that I don't really know if I liked that or whatever I guess yeah we'll see but yeah I definitely want to rewatch it I'm going to see if I can catch in one of these weeks here which Granted, we're getting we're getting close to Avatar season. so Yeah, we are. We are getting close to Avatar season. the the press tour probably going to start up here soon because I think it comes out in, what, 3?
00:56:57
Speaker
December 19th, yeah. So the press screening is going to be soon. I'm assuming that they're going to have... ah Yeah, the press screenings, I'm assuming, will in a week or two.
00:57:09
Speaker
So we might get some sort of... partial review embargo thing happening where maybe people will watch it and they'll kind of give their thoughts but not full reviews of the of the movie.
00:57:23
Speaker
But um yeah, man, Avatar season's coming up. It's exciting, exciting times with that, obviously. And, um you know, I mean, who knows what else news we're going to hear about future things.
00:57:37
Speaker
um Question I have for you, Mel, with this movie, the way it ended. Do you think they're leaving the possibility open for maybe doing ah another film?
00:57:50
Speaker
I don't think so. You don't think so? No, i think I think the story is... It's ended. Like, what... like I mean, I just don't know like what the story would be. Because if there's a third movie, then it diminishes everything this movie was. right The whole point is for what Glinda finds out she's alive. Then it kind of diminishes the whole like sad about the whole ending of we're good and like what that means to their friendship. like I just don't know like what other story there is to tell. Well, well they the the for the books, there's like supposedly like a bunch of other books that
00:58:27
Speaker
that went after the wicked book the the the original one yeah there's a lot of sequels so i guess people are saying like well there's a lot sequels maybe they can go off of one of those things and go off of that where you know i've seen the book the demise is different you know because yeah the book is so different it's so it's really dark so like i don't know how like it could be a musical But I mean, if it does, it's going to be like a really long time before something like that ever gets greenlit. But I don't know. i just find it. Listen, we don't know because if this movie, let's say, for instance, this movie does well in the box office. It does really good. You know, you know, studios, man, they love their they're greedy. They love money. So there what is the studio coming out for season two? Do we know?
00:59:11
Speaker
They haven't released that. I really want to see the second season. I need to re-watch that show. That show is so different. I'm going to re-watch it. No, but I'm saying, like you know how studios are where they're just, you know, we want, we want, you know, we can't we can't just live, we can't leave a billion dollar property just sitting there without doing anything with it. You know what i mean? so Oh, yeah. It wouldn't surprise me if you hear, oh yeah, Universal has greenlit a third Wicked movie or whatever, you know.
00:59:37
Speaker
Who knows what that'll be if they do it. Again, it wouldn't, it would not surprise me. But, I don't know. i just feel like the way it ended with the book opening to her, like maybe it's something that's alluding to a potential, like all the adventures ah continue with Galinda now that she's discovered that she does have this power that she can rid the read the Grimmery and stuff. You know, like, like, I don't know. i think maybe the story could continue on with her.
01:00:03
Speaker
Maybe. i don't know. I don't know, you know, because of all the world of Oz is big and vast. So it would be interesting to see what what happens with that. But again, I see where you're coming from. I'm not advocating for a sequel. i I do feel like this movie pretty much is a beginning and an end to that story, you know, and and and and that's it. But again, i we don't know.
Oscar Potential and Industry Context
01:00:28
Speaker
I did ah one last thing here before we actually do wrap up, which we didn't actually talk about is what do you think about ah this movie going up for Oscars? Hmm. I don't feel strongly... Oscars these days even though oscar these days aren't necessarily the best judge of character, but you know because that is a big talk, a lot of people are are saying that obviously they i think that they do think they're going be nominated again.
01:00:54
Speaker
I think they could be nominated, but I don't feel as strongly about it as I thought I would have um in terms of in terms of, okay, maybe performances.
01:01:05
Speaker
i could see, I could definitely see Ariana Grande getting a Best Supporting Actress nomination. I mean, maybe I could even, I could potentially even see her Maybe even taking it home because I think she was a very, very strong part of this movie.
01:01:21
Speaker
um Cynthia Erivo was really, really good in this movie. I don't think she was as strong as she was in the first movie. so Yeah, agreed. don't they don't think she would win. She might be nominated, I don't think she would win. Maybe nominated, but I don't know. there's this this you know Maybe. Maybe. dev So, yeah, i don't i don't see I don't see the movie...
01:01:40
Speaker
getting the strong Oscar buzz, like the first one, think the first one merited a lot of the oscar Oscar buzz. I don't think this one is gonna get it like that.
01:01:52
Speaker
um I can see, again, I can see Ariana Grande getting a Best Supporting Actress nom. I can obviously see the the costume work getting getting that. I can see set design getting it. You know, technical awards, I can see definitely getting that stuff.
01:02:07
Speaker
um I'm trying to think of the music. Maybe the No Good Deeds song gets gets ah gets a nom for for best music, best song from a movie. can see that.
01:02:22
Speaker
I can definitely see that getting it. But yeah, in terms of taking stuff home, um I'm assuming just, I'm just going to say costume design. And and and I would say Ariana, but I feel like, I don't know.
01:02:37
Speaker
I just, i i I don't know how the Academy is going to treat her. because if she does get nominated again, would the Academy for the same role? Because she got nominated last year, right? Yeah.
01:02:48
Speaker
She lost his O.E. Would they let her go home twice for the same role? I don't know. So that'll be interesting. That'll actually be very interesting.
01:03:00
Speaker
Hmm. We got to keep an eye on that one. yeah there's a lot of people ah Yeah. A lot of people are giving her Oscar, a lot of Oscar buzz on Ariana, for sure. I have heard a lot of that. A lot of people are saying that that they think she's going to take it. But I also don't really know who else is. because So like from what I hear about the Oscar just like run, like supposedly the hardest ones are Best Actress and Best Actor are really like the what people are thinking. Because those nominations will come out, what?
01:03:28
Speaker
in January, I think it is, right? Yeah. um So a lot of people have already started to put out their list and they're saying that there's like the best actress column is really rough. a car It's going to be a hard one. like There's a lot of really good ones. But the best supporting actress one seems like Ariana seems to be pretty... Like a locked...
01:03:48
Speaker
Yeah, but I haven't seen pretty much any of the other... There's that movie, jenfer everyone's saying Jennifer Lawrence, but take it, or um ah Emma Stone for that movie that she just did.
01:04:02
Speaker
yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I know you're talking yeah. Yeah. lot of people a lot of people are saying that in Best Actress, they are the ones that people are kind of... um for the win there. But for Best Supporting, I'm not sure...
01:04:18
Speaker
I'm trying to see here real quick on on things here. Let me go to... Well, see, um I went on vanity and um Variety. Variety actually has Cynthia Erivo nominated for an Oscar.
01:04:31
Speaker
um But they have somebody else winning it. This actress named Jessie Buckley for this movie called Hamnet. Oh, yeah. Everyone's talking about Hamnet. That's a big one. Yeah. Let me see. Best Supporting Actress. No, look. Vanity Fair has Ariana Grande winning.
01:04:48
Speaker
Yeah. They have her winning. um And I'm looking here because there's this, i'm looking. So they have Elle Fanning nominated. They have Ariana Grande. They have recheat Regina Hall for one battle after another, which I saw the other day. Holy. is it good? Oh my.
01:05:05
Speaker
It's not, and it's not good. It's fucking amazing. Oh my God. Oh, I actually really want to watch it. I feel like I did a disservice to myself not watching that in in theaters. it's it's Is it not in the theater anymore?
01:05:21
Speaker
I don't know. have to go and see but saw at home. But it's phenomenal. Like, oh my God, what a freaking movie. Anyway, let me go back to this. yeah um They have this actress, Inga Ilzelez. Yeah.
01:05:36
Speaker
therere her and Elle Fanning are both from the same movie, Sentimental Value. And then they have Tiana Taylor for One Battle After Another. So Regina Hall, Tiana Taylor, One Battle After Another, and the other two are actually on the same movie also.
01:05:48
Speaker
So um essentially Ariana is on her own. So I you know i could see Ariana Grande taking it home. if this is If these predictions aren' so are as as as to be said, i can see in a i could see that happening. I could see... um aye her taking it home.
01:06:08
Speaker
Definitely. um Yeah. Oscars are going to be interesting. Oscars are going to be very interesting here. I'm going to see here the um best picture. What do they have for best picture? Okay. Best picture here.
01:06:24
Speaker
So they have, again, these are predictions. certain They have Avatar, Fire, and Ash. They have Frankenstein, which I saw, which was phenomenal. Yeah. It's on my list. I'm going to watch it tomorrow night.
01:06:36
Speaker
Yeah, you got Hamnet. You have this other movie called Jay Kelly. You have this other movie called Marty Supreme. oh the one with Timothee. With Timothee Chalamet. Chalamet. You have this other movie called No Other Choice.
01:06:52
Speaker
um You have this, you have no one battle after another. You have Sentimental Value, which I think is getting a lot of Oscar buzz. You have Sinners, which I... Sinners is a movie that I feel has, has it because it came out earlier in the year, people forget how amazing that movie is.
01:07:12
Speaker
um Sinners is is one of the best movies I've seen all year. I could say that unequivocally. Yeah. I'll be honest with you. Let me just put it even out there. Until I saw One Battle After Another, I had Sinners as the best movie we I've seen all year.
01:07:25
Speaker
But I think One Battle After Another is the best movie I've seen all year. it's It's just, it's amazing. But Sinners is like, right. Literally, Sinners is like, right. It's like, One Battle After Another is one a Sinners is 1B. Sinners, I know you're not into It is so, it's it's it and i'm and I'm so happy that I got to watch it in IMAX because Ryan Coogler shot it in IMAX with an IMAX camera. So you get these beautiful images and man, Sinners is amazing.
01:08:02
Speaker
It's just phenomenal. It is such an amazing movie. And I'm so um um um so mad that it came out earlier in the year. Because again, these movies come out earlier the year. People forget about them.
01:08:14
Speaker
You know what mean? That's what happened to Dune last year. Dune 2 came out earlier in the year too. and And because it came out earlier in the year, people kind of forgot about it. And it's just like, that movie got disrespected. And I feel like Sinners is going to get the same fate because it came out earlier in the year. I'm like, yeah this has something. They have to do something better with that. But again, I do think One Battle After Another is, i just it's it's really good. ah Leonardo DiCaprio, again, the man is just. There's something about Leonardo DiCaprio. Leonardo DiCaprio.
01:08:46
Speaker
he can He just, these regular ass roles of these regular characters, he just, I feel like he eats them alive. e He eats those up more than like the more like difficult characters. You know what i mean? I'm not saying that he can't play those characters because I still- Wait, what do you mean by difficult characters? Like to this day, I say my favorite Leonardo DiCaprio role, I say like in terms of performance- It's not The Revenant. I think I still say it's The Aviator. I think that role in The Aviator was such... He was so fucking good as Howard Hughes. He was so good. And I'm so mad still to the say that he didn't win for that because he was so damn good.
01:09:30
Speaker
And again, I know in The Revenant, it was the elements. But I feel like with The Revenant, it's like Hollywood gave to It's like, yo, we have to give it to Yeah, it was time. It's time. This motherfucker slept in a bear carcass or something. like We got to give it to him.
01:09:46
Speaker
But I feel like Hollywood was like, we owe it for him for not giving it him for the aviator. I thought he was so good in the aviator. Who wanted that year aviator? I don't know. I got to check and see. But my point is, he plays these regular roles so well. Because he did this one movie called Once Upon a Time in Hollywood for Quentin Tarantino. Yeah. He was great in that movie. Like, he was, and he was just playing a regular Schmojo actor, you know, who just wants to be a really good actor.
01:10:11
Speaker
But he played the shit out of that role. And I could have just watched the whole movie of him just hit in his regular everyday life doing that. In this movie, he's essentially kind of playing the same thing where he's playing this kind of vigilante freedom fighter type dude who's also dad. think i saw you posted a clip of him.
01:10:31
Speaker
You posted a clip. Yeah. Yo. I was dying. When he's looking for his daughter and he rolls up to these Mexican students and he starts talking to them and then he does the whiffle. Yo, I was like... was like, that's it. Like, if he gets... Like, honestly, if he gets... That's the role they have... if when When he gets nominated for Best Actor, which I think is going to get nominated for Best Actor, that's the scene that they have to put. Like, when they say, Leonardo DiCaprio for one battle after another. That's the scene they got to put because that shit...
01:11:03
Speaker
He freaking nailed it. man One battle after or another. If you haven't watched it, do yourself a favor. Go watch one battle after another. It is one of the best movies. To me, I think it's the best movie of the year. And if you haven't fucking seen Sinners, go see Sinners too because it's one of the best movies of the year too. They're both awesome. um Man, Oscars are going to be crazy. I can't wait. I know we're going to do a show where we're going kind of give our... Oh, yeah. We're going to do our end of the year because I we're going to do our end of the year kind of personal awards that we we talk about what our best movie is, what our best performance of the year is. I know we're going to do something like that, which I'm very, very excited to do because, you know, it's like... Because, like you said, there's a bunch of performances that didn't get to see this year, you know? So I do want to see a lot of these movies. I do want to see a lot of the performances for... the actresses and the actors and and and and these movies that that I might not have seen that I want to check out. So I'm definitely going to, you know, at the end of the year, um really try to catch up on movies. That way, when we do give our definitive top 10 lists, I want to give our our audience something good, something that they can be like, okay, that's a good that's a good list, Rod. Yeah, yeah, agreed. Yeah, I feel like this year I i want to watch more of the of the movies that are nominated because I feel like every year I'm just being more and more like, oh man, I haven't seen a half of these. Like, I don't know like exactly what these movies are. So was like, oh, maybe I should be little bit more. Hey, Mel.
01:12:32
Speaker
I'm sorry. I just wanted to say, when while you were talking, I looked up who won that year for when Leonardo DiCaprio lost to the aviator. It was Jamie Foxx for Ray. Ray, right, Ray. i Yeah, Ray. That was a tough one, man. And I think that was a tough year because I think there was other actors that were nominated really good too.
01:12:51
Speaker
Clint Eastwood, Million Dollar Baby, Johnny Depp for Finding Neverland, Don Cheadle for Hotel Rwanda, and Leonardo DiCaprio for The Aviator. You see, like those were roles that like if it was any other year, any of the other guys would have won. like It's just, you know, yeah, that's tough. That's tough.
01:13:10
Speaker
That was a... That was a hard one. Hard, hard, hard one. So, Mel, I'm looking here for a prediction for Best Supporting Actor. They have Benicio Del Toro for one bite off another. who Benicio Del Toro was screaming that movie. There's there's a meme. i don't know if you've seen. There's this meme of Benicio Del Toro. It's not a meme. It's a video meme. where And they do it in the movie. They do it in one bite another. That's why I love it. So...
01:13:37
Speaker
in in there's um The meme of Dresda Toros is that when they're interviewing him oh in English and he's talking, and he's very he's very like reserved. and oh yes, this and this and that. and then And then the other side is he's talking to he's talking to someone in Spanish with the biggest heave out of Puerto Rican accent ever. But they that meme, they do it in the movie. It is the so... Oh, freaking great. Oh, man.
01:14:09
Speaker
Again, one battle after another. But anyway, ah the point I want to make is so so Best Supporting Actor is it's actually really, really tough. So you got Benicio Del Toro. You have Jacob Elordi for Frankenstein, who was phenomenal in that, who I could see it with. Paul Mescal palma scalner know again, Hamnet, um who I think he's playing William Shakespeare in movie. I thought was actor.
01:14:30
Speaker
Is he not the lead? No, I think the lead is his wife, Anne Hathaway. That's the lead. Yeah, he's playing Shakespeare. He's playing Shakespeare. So he's he's a best supporting actor. Sean Penn for One Ballot of the Who, he is unbelievable in that movie.
01:14:46
Speaker
Sean Penn is... Like, if Sean Penn wins best supporting actor, I'm um'm like, yo, you earned it. Mel, Arban, Arboy... played luther in Lutheran in... in ah in um Andor?
01:15:03
Speaker
Andor. Stellan Saesgard is nominated for Sentimental Value. Man, I would love to see Stellan Saesgard win the Oscar. Oh, he's fantastic. But I just feel like it would be such a great... For the year he had, with yeah starting it with Andor, and then you end with this...
01:15:25
Speaker
Oh, man, I would love for him to win it. Because to this day, I still... Man, that man...
01:15:33
Speaker
Yo, shout out to San Sarasgard. And again, shout to Andor. It's just... ah If you know, you
Conclusion and Future Topics
01:15:41
Speaker
know. And yeah and and and his character is the epitome of of... We talked about what Wicked was about. We talked about sacrifice. And his character and Andor...
01:15:53
Speaker
All it was was about sacrifice. Sacrifice. That whole thing about him saying, that you know i'm i'm never you know I'm doing this for the sunrise I'm never going to see. paraphrasing. Oh, God, that scene.
01:16:04
Speaker
It's powerful, man. It's powerful. It's powerful stuff. Powerful. Yeah. But anyway, listen, this episode yeah awesome. i think we I think we both agree. We liked the movie, and we thought it was a it was a it was a it was a good ending.
01:16:20
Speaker
it It hit us in the feels really good. There are some things that we thought that the movie could have done better. Yeah. But I think overall, we're pleased with with with Wicked for Good. It was a nice capper to the story.
01:16:36
Speaker
um And it was a proper kind of goodbye to to this world. to And to these characters. And to these characters that we we that we that we we all essentially you know fell in love with. you know It was a good rap, for sure. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. and now we'll definitely be re-watching it and we'll talk to each other a little bit more about what we got after we re-watched it and stuff but um but anyway guys so coming up i think we'll have um we'll have about one i think one episode or two episodes before um we are going to be going on christmas break uh but uh
01:17:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think we're going to having some Avatar episodes, you know, to celebrate Avatar coming out. or Maybe talk about some family films and how that's going on in in the media today, because we do feel like it's kind of not ah pre prevailent prevalent, prevalent, prevalent, prevalent. Is that the word?
01:17:30
Speaker
I believe Yeah, that's the word. Yeah, it's just like we're not something that we see often these days. And i we weren really wanted to talk about that aspect here on the podcast because family films are very important. And I just feel like they're kind of being forgotten about and we just don't see them as often as we should or as we used to. So definitely make sure that you're following us.
01:17:53
Speaker
Give us a rating, five stars if you're enjoying this. And of course, thanks so much for listening. And I guess we'll see you guys in the next episode. Bye. Later. Have a good one.
01:18:05
Speaker
See you guys.