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Our Survey Says... A Quiet Revival?
0 Playsin 13 hours
The Bible Society has published a fascinating report called The Quiet Revival - analysing extensive survey results on generational attitudes to the Bible, church, and Christianity. In this conversation with one of the report co-authors, we press into the sources of encouragement and the challenges for the future of Christianity in the UK.
Dr Rob Barward-Symmons is Senior Research and Impact Manager at the British and Foreign Bible Society, Head of Research at Theos Think Tank, and Co-Director of the Centre for the Study of Modern Christianity at St John's College, Durham.
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Transcript
Introduction to Pep Talk and Cultural Surveys
00:00:10
Speaker
Well, hello everyone and welcome to another edition of Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast from Solas. I'm Simon Wenham, your co-host, and I'm joined, as is often the case, by Christy Mayer. How are you doing, Christy?
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm doing very well, Simon. It's great to be with you today and with our guest. Absolutely. And today we're going to be talking about surveys, not the TV show Family Fortunes, but but one that's caused actually a lot of interest ah culturally.
Significance of the Quiet Revival Survey
00:00:39
Speaker
and And that's actually sparked many um interesting conversations within the church. So I hope you'll agree. And I don't want to give too much away now, because the first thing to do is to introduce our guest,
00:00:50
Speaker
and he is one of the the two people behind it, and that is ah Dr. Rob Barwood-Simmons, and he holds senior positions in the British and Foreign Bible Society, Theos Think Tank, and the Centre for the Study of Modern Christianity at St. John's College, Durham.
00:01:05
Speaker
Rob, thank you so much for being with us. How are you doing today? ah Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm doing well. You've um we' We're recording this in the middle of of a mini heatwave, so a bit ah hot and flustered, but otherwise doing well.
00:01:19
Speaker
Thank
Methodology of the Quiet Revival Survey
00:01:20
Speaker
you. Well, yes, thank you. Yes, it's very, very warm here. And we're here to talk about the Bible Society's Quiet Revival Survey. And I should say, actually, we've had the co-author of the study, Dr. Rhiannon McAleer, already do a pep talk. So it's actually lovely to have you here with us as well.
00:01:37
Speaker
I wondered if we could just start, ah people may not be familiar with the study, I wondered if you could say something about the methodology of it, because I think sometimes when people hear there's been a survey, they they wonder actually whether we really can draw much from it. so I wondered if you could say a little bit about why it is a significant study.
00:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So this is a study that kind of took place in two parts over course of six years. um And so way back in 2018, Bible Society decided that they wanted to have a better and deeper understanding of um adults across England and Wales, which is the area areas they work in specifically, and their kind of understanding of engagement with attitudes towards the Bible and Christianity.
00:02:23
Speaker
um And to do this, we commissioned YouGov, who are a very reputable polling agency that many people will be aware of. They work across politics, business, social sciences.
00:02:35
Speaker
um And we commissioned them to do a very large survey of, at that point, 19,000 adults. And the way that works is... um They recruit from their panel and what they aim to do is recruit as closely as possible so that you can map on, you have a representative sample of the population as measured in the census.
00:03:00
Speaker
They then... ask these people to to answer the questions that we've set. um And through that, they will then clean it, make sure it's all ah clear of any obscurities, anything that doesn't quite make sense. They'll remove, make sure it's all um fine and dandy, and then they deliver that data to us and we can then go back and forth with YouGov. And anything we print has to be kind of approved by YouGov.
00:03:28
Speaker
So methodologies are complex and multilayered, but this one is using very industry standard approaches, ones that will be used to say across the across all sorts of sectors.
00:03:41
Speaker
And it's worth saying that a good quality survey of this type would have around maybe 2,000 or 3,000 people responding. Let's say in 2018, we had 19,000. When we redid this again in 2024, we 13,000, both of which therefore are very statistically rigorous.
00:03:53
Speaker
we got thirteen thousand um both of which therefore are very statistically rigorous And doing it in these two phases allows us to see that difference that's changed over that time.
Informing Evangelism through Survey Personas
00:04:06
Speaker
That's where really a lot of the story has come from, is being able to go, okay, this is where we were at and this is where we are now.
00:04:14
Speaker
I mean, it it would be itd be great to hear some of those differences um in a moment, Rob, but it sounds like there are a number of checks and balances in place and the the sample group has just expanded um with each iteration of the of the review. So thank you so much for sharing some of that with us.
00:04:31
Speaker
Just to zoom out just a little bit. um I think if I'm right in saying that the survey is set up to measure attitudes to Christianity and the Bible. um what What do you think, are there any particular ways in which it might inform our evangelism? Just just thinking about us as a as a podcast who's here to kind of help listeners that grow a little bit in those areas. and Are there any particular aspects of the the the study, the survey that you think would would help us in our evangelism?
00:05:02
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, actually, the first place I'm going to point you to on that front is... um While the report itself does touch on this in Chapter 4 in particular, after 2018 study, we launched a website called Lumino, and that's findable at lumino.bible.
00:05:20
Speaker
And what that does is draws together all the data that we've got and identifies eight, um drawn from the data, eight different personas that we've named, the cover adults across England and Wales.
00:05:34
Speaker
And this goes this is multidimensional, and it kind of allows us to see with new depth different types of people as they relate to the Bible, as as they relate to church, as they relate to Christianity.
00:05:45
Speaker
And there, um on the website, We've got those profiles up there that are, say, data-driven, but we've told their stories. And that really allows you, ideally, to understand the the breadth of people that you'll be engaging with in greater depth and complexity than just saying, okay, this person goes to church and this person doesn't, and this person seems a bit more hostile.
00:06:10
Speaker
Actually, we're seeing this... that that there are so many different stories going on across our culture, and it's far more complex than just whether you tick Christian or whether you tick non-religious.
00:06:21
Speaker
So I'd point your listeners there, because that's a great starting point, just for understanding your missional context in which you're working and opening those doors. And in time, we are planning on updating that with the latest data.
00:06:34
Speaker
So this what you see in the report is really just the tip of the iceberg at the stage. Brilliant. Thank
Survey Insights: Interest and Apathy toward the Bible
00:06:40
Speaker
you. Yeah, that' that's very interesting, isn't it? Because often we you have sort of focus groups, but then you actually you form a sort of a scheme of ah what what an average person would be. So you're saying that you've actually sort of isolated that to a number of different different types of persons. that That's very interesting. I wondered if we could just perhaps ah zoom out and I wondered if you could sort of summarise some of the more challenging or perhaps negative findings for the church, if there are any
00:07:08
Speaker
That's really interesting because I guess the negativity depends on your starting point. but So for us, you can it kind of depends on how ne how pessimistic you are going in.
00:07:20
Speaker
So you can look at one stat, for example, which says 25% the population are... population ah interested in finding out more about the Bible, right?
00:07:32
Speaker
And in one sense, that's really exciting. another sense, that leaves three quarters population who say they've got no interest in finding out. So that those barriers are very present with a large proportion of the population.
00:07:45
Speaker
And as a church and kind of as an organisation like Bible Society, that 25% needs to just be the start. We want to keep working with those that 75%, understanding how we can engage those people with the Bible.
00:07:59
Speaker
And again, we've got this really exciting basis that says that 34% of young adults who aren't currently in church are say they would be interested in going to church if they're invited by a friend.
00:08:12
Speaker
Now, firstly, that poses a big challenge to who's willing to step out there and and but see if that like is real among their friendship group. Also, again, how do we reach that other two thirds of the population who say they they've got no interest in going to church?
00:08:30
Speaker
So I think ah Sometimes we have had such a pessimistic perspective that but even small signs of positivity are encouraging. They should be encouraging. That's great.
00:08:42
Speaker
But we should also be looking at that that wider picture that goes, actually, there's still more growth to be done. But also, just because someone says they're interested, doesn't mean they're going to act on that if you don't reach out there and engage them.
00:08:56
Speaker
So there's always a challenge to be found within that.
Rising Church Attendance and Opportunities for Discipleship
00:09:00
Speaker
I mean, that quite nicely takes us onto the topic of thinking about evangelism and discipleship and how those how those two things kind of relate to one another, particularly in light of increased um interest, possibly attendance. I mean, what do you think are some of the the practical implications of this survey for everyday people in the local church? Yeah.
00:09:24
Speaker
Well, just to, I guess, for those who aren't aware, the key ah the the key headings that really grabbed people from this, so they are, we're seeing a significant rise in people who say they go to church,
00:09:38
Speaker
each month and identify as Christian. And we're particularly seeing that among young adults. So they're now actually, the youngest generation are actually more likely than any anyone else other than the over at sixty five s to say they go to church monthly.
00:09:53
Speaker
And this is remarkable. It's really exciting news. But that does mean you've got a new generation of people coming to church probably for the first time, or certainly maybe for the first time in a long time, who may have explored Christianity by themselves, may have explored it online.
00:10:17
Speaker
And that may be where they felt, they found evangelism, maybe that's where they felt convicted enough to turn up at a church. but yeah That's only one step in the journey. And actually then the challenge of the church goes, okay, we're no longer just a place where people are Yeah, raised, they go to Sunday school and some of them stick around for longer.
00:10:41
Speaker
Actually, we're seeing more and more people coming to church for the first time as adults. And that poses a new opportunity, new excitement, but actually a new challenge as well. So how do you shift into discipleship?
00:10:57
Speaker
into a discipleship space, what questions might they still have? What challenges might they be wrestling with which are unfamiliar to a church who's used to kind of engaging with Christians from birth?
00:11:10
Speaker
So those those challenges and those questions come in. And then if we kind of How are we drawing on our evangelistic skills to guide people through those early stages of discipleship? um And what do we need to shift?
00:11:26
Speaker
What do we need to adjust in that process? I think for me, and relationship is key. Listening is key. And one of the dangers of a big survey like this, a big report like this, is it gives this bird's eye view and can give the impression that there's just this uniform experience. And actually, everyone who's coming in is going to have their own story, going to have their own questions, going have their own um fire within them.
00:11:50
Speaker
And so as a church, as more experienced Christians, it's kind of how we listen to them, how we're learning from them and journeying with them in the process in the early stages as these younger adults are are turning up to churches for the first time.
00:12:06
Speaker
If you are a regular listener to Pep Talk podcast, we're wondering if you would be willing to do us a favor. And it won't cost you anything. We're asking if you'd be willing to pray for the ministry of Solas.
00:12:17
Speaker
Every week, Solas speakers crisscross the country doing evangelism, sharing the gospel with people outside the church, and training and equipping and encouraging Christians to share their faith. And we really need your prayers to be able to do that effectively.
00:12:29
Speaker
The best way to pray for Solas is to sign up for our prayer letter. Jump over to the solus website Solas
00:12:38
Speaker
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Young Adults and Renewed Interest in Christianity
00:12:55
Speaker
The overall picture is is is a very exciting one, isn't it? Because it's it's showing quite a significant ah uplift after but we what we've been often said is a sort of decline as in in the general picture, at least.
00:13:08
Speaker
I mean, one one very striking feature is you you talk about young people um being a lot more interested in faith. You you describe them as the spiritual generation. And that's quite striking because, of course, Christianity is not often thought of as trendy amongst young people in particular.
00:13:25
Speaker
I suppose one thing I'd be interested to hear what you say is that the humanists, for example, say, well, this is just young people and you know thinking about life as they always have done. and How would you respond to that particular was and suggestion?
00:13:40
Speaker
As we know, and as anyone who's worked with um young people know, it is a period wherein you are wrestling with big questions of identity, of meaning, of purpose. To that extent, that is true.
00:13:54
Speaker
But what's clearly different now is that Christianity has re-entered the scene as a viable option in a way that that we weren't seeing 10 years ago, 20 years ago, however long.
00:14:09
Speaker
um and I do think there's been a cultural shift to the point where in maybe you know couple of generations ago, we see this with the with Gen Xs in our report, they come out as still very flat, very unengaged.
00:14:25
Speaker
They grew up shaped really in a space where in there was quite a lot of active hostility towards Christianity, you know a lot of prominent atheism, new atheism, scandals around the church.
00:14:38
Speaker
So there was this kind of active phase of hostility towards Christians in the cultural space. That shifted towards kind of apathy and kind of no one really being that bothered about that space.
00:14:50
Speaker
But actually now I think what we've seen in the last few years is a cultural shift towards openness and curiosity and intrigue um across all sorts of different levels and and things are possible now which maybe weren't possible few years ago.
00:15:04
Speaker
um You know, authors like Tom Holland and Lamorna Asch's new book is wonderful on this, who are very mainstream authors authors but kind of presenting an image of of Christianity that's positive and acceptable and except we engaging.
00:15:19
Speaker
But you're also seeing public figures, footballers, particular musicians, actors, social media folk being much more comfortable talking about their faith.
00:15:30
Speaker
So it's kind of, that's it. And then we're also seeing that in our ah survey that younger people are more likely to say it's a good thing for Christians to talk about their faith with non-Christians.
00:15:42
Speaker
So comfortably over half of ah younger adults agree with that and only 15% so disagree. So there's this openness to being Christians, talking about being talking about Christianity, to exploring Christianity.
00:15:59
Speaker
I think among some people there's a recognition that it's part of who you are and and you know it's something to be... kind of encouraged in that sense. But also, I think there's a recognition that Christianity as kind of this ancient source of wisdom and practice offers answers to the struggles that young people are going through a way that many other sources um have failed to.
00:16:26
Speaker
So the door, not only through kind of cultural acceptance of it, but actually kind of material in social circumstances, um leading more people to looking for answers um means that young people are exploring this in a way that they weren't previously and are be engaging with it actively.
00:16:49
Speaker
which is a really, kind of from a Christian sense, something think a really positive thing. And the really encouraging thing that we see, again, through the data, is that it's making a difference in people's lives. So churchgoers, including young churchgoers, are much more likely to say they're happy about their life, they feel hopeful, that they feel a sense of meaning and purpose, really, and they're less likely to say they feel anxious or depressed.
00:17:18
Speaker
um So people who are engaged in research regularly, it seems to made be meeting a lot of the needs that we know young adults are wrestling with.
Engaging Youth with Community and Physical Bibles
00:17:29
Speaker
Rob, this is, this is utterly fascinating because LinkedIn, you know, with some of these um observations that you've just made in terms of returning to the the source of, of wisdom, know, just, just finally, probably don't have time for one more question. Oh my goodness. But m just thinking about the source of, of wisdom that that God gives us through his word and how the survey kind of points towards an increased interest in um in, younger people learning more about the Bible.
00:17:59
Speaker
what What do you think it looks like for us to introduce young people to the Bible? I mean, do you recommend that we give some someone a Bible to take away or a New Testament or a particular scriptural you know passage or verse? like What's the best way to encourage that kind of engagement and to meet the hunger and thirst for it?
00:18:22
Speaker
It's a really good question. I think one of the exciting, interesting elements about this in terms of the Bible is that lots of these young people will be approaching with very little baggage.
00:18:33
Speaker
And so they're encountering the Bible for the first time often as as that. And I mean, you know, sometimes baggage can be helpful, but sometimes it can be unhelpful. And so they're able to look fresh and kind of engage in these in new ways.
00:18:47
Speaker
and from Anecdotally, from what I've heard, young people are really the young people who are interested are really keen to get their hands on a physical Bible, and we're seeing a massive rise in Bible sales, particularly among the younger generations.
00:19:01
Speaker
So that's a good start. But I'd also say getting alongside them and working through it in community, in a group, exploring questions together, and again, learning from each other. So the Bible Society has just released a new version of the Bible course, which is very much designed as a kind of start from scratch process.
00:19:22
Speaker
with the Bible, guides you through the whole story of Scripture. But it's designed to be done in community alongside others, asking each other's questions, wrestling with it yourselves, not just ah just relying on what we say.
00:19:39
Speaker
So I think that's a really great start is getting them a Bible, finding the Bible that's right for them, getting them stuck in, and then going through it together in community a great place to begin.
00:19:55
Speaker
Thank you so much. And sorry, I know we've only really scratched the surface of what is a very detailed and encouraging survey. I think one thing that struck me was the the sort of higher life satisfaction and and sort of connection with people felt to their community through church. And I thought that was really encouraging and ah sort of inspiring. it's a reminder that that that is often a a thing lots of people are seeking at the moment, the sort of well-being. And I thought that was another another thing that is can point us in our evangelism.
00:20:27
Speaker
and I suppose as ah as a final point, it was interesting, Graham Tomlin, in response to the survey, reminded us that um We have to be careful how we use statistics.
Cultural Resonance and Future Church Impact
00:20:36
Speaker
And obviously, and they don't prove something is true. but And of course, time will tell with with the data. But of course, it it's it's it's hugely encouraging, isn't it? Especially Christians who are expecting, ah sort of have got used to hearing sort of talk of decline. And um I wondered if you you just define a final word, just sort of if you could say just...
00:20:58
Speaker
How encouraged should we be by this data? And do you see this as a sort of, hopefully, a longer term trend or is is would you say time will tell? i I'm going to say time will tell. I don't do the crystal ball game.
00:21:12
Speaker
But I'd say we can afford to be um encouraged by this. but this you know Stats can only ever be one kind of lens.
00:21:24
Speaker
um Every approach, going back the methodologies the beginning, every method has its limitations. Every approach is only ever ah um a one frame on it.
00:21:36
Speaker
But one of the things that's been remarkable and really encouraging is as we've put this out there is the number of people who've said it resonates with them um in some form or other, whether that's church leaders saying, and you know, we've had people turn up at our door and weren't expecting this.
00:21:54
Speaker
It's campus ministries saying we've not seen an openness like this for 20 years. We've had to reopen new services. I've heard from more than...
00:22:07
Speaker
quite a few secular adults, basically, who've said, you know, now you mention it, my son had asked for a Bible for Christmas, or there was someone the other day who was talking to their friend who said, oh, absolute nonsense, of course not.
00:22:27
Speaker
But my son has recently converted. And kindny these stories are coming out. And again, That's only part of the part of the picture. And this won't be something that's experienced by everyone everywhere.
00:22:40
Speaker
But when you bring those stories together, the kind of things we're hearing from the church, the kind of things we're seeing in culture and in our landscape, and then you have this data comes in to reflect that lived experience of so many people.
00:22:57
Speaker
That's when I think we can really and look for hope and optimism. However, say look into the future, Really, the way in which this embeds and does grow is by the church responding, listening to the Spirit, listening to the people that are coming in, working with them, and not assuming that a they they know it all.
00:23:21
Speaker
Be driven and be encouraged in this and and act on it because we don't know what this survey would look like in five years' time, but we pray that it continues to show through.
00:23:34
Speaker
Thank you so much, Rob. um Sadly, this brings us to the end of our time together today.
Conclusion and Future Episodes
00:23:40
Speaker
It's gone by so quickly and there are so many things there, I think, for us to just further um ponder upon and and and reflect on. Thank you so much for your hard work and contribution to that um important work. Thank you.
00:23:53
Speaker
Thank you, everyone.
00:23:56
Speaker
and sadly this does bring us to the end of the episode and i'm i never really know how to end each podcast other than to say a huge thank you to rob and a huge thank you to simon and we will put up some of the links the the websites that you you mentioned rob in the show notes which will go ah out with this episode And to you who are listening, we look forward to being with you in a couple of weeks time with another um brother or sister sharing us about God's ah work in their lives and ministry. So thank you for listening in and we look forward to being with you soon.
00:24:26
Speaker
Bye.