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Ian Redlin: Resilient Teams Through Economic Disruption
8 Plays26 days ago
What does it take to build — and rebuild — a company when markets, technology, and customer needs keep changing?
In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes sits down with Ian Redlin, CEO of Octolan Technology, to talk about leadership through disruption, reinvention, and long-term resilience. With nearly 30 years in technology and supply chain automation, Ian has navigated multiple economic cycles, including the Great Recession and COVID, without losing sight of culture or people.
Ian shares how his career evolved from consulting to entrepreneurship, why adaptability became a leadership skill rather than a strategy, and how trust plays a critical role when building technical teams. The conversation also explores what changes when founders move from a bootstrap environment into a publicly traded organization, and how people systems, leadership structure, and scale must evolve together.
This episode is for founders, operators, and leaders who know disruption is inevitable and want to build teams that can thrive through it.
About Ian:
Ian Redlin is a dedicated leader and passionate advocate for entrepreneurs and owner-operators, backed by nearly three decades in supply chain automation. Throughout his career, Ian has navigated major economic shifts by reinventing his business model and launching market-defining solutions, in fields ranging from business process automation to returns processing and circular supply chains. He has held pivotal roles as consultant, VP of engineering at a publicly traded powerhouse, and, most importantly, CEO as an entrepreneur, consistently driving innovation and team success. In addition to his operational leadership, Ian actively invests in other entrepreneurs’ organizations, contributing as both a coach and financial investor to help founders accelerate their growth. Ian’s hallmark is building tenacious, supportive teams with cultures rooted in audacity and resilience, where collective achievement is always the goal, as his team can attest.
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Transcript
Introduction to Mustard Hub Voices
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome back, everyone. This is another installment of Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these fireside chats, I sit down with the people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes.
Meet Ian Redlin: Supply Chain Innovator
00:00:18
Speaker
My guest today is Ian Redlin. Ian is a dedicated leader and a passionate advocate for entrepreneurs and owner-operators, backed by nearly three decades in supply chain automations.
00:00:32
Speaker
Throughout his career, Ian's navigated major economic shifts by reinventing his business model and launching market-defining solutions in fields ranging from business process, automation, to returns processing, and circular supply chains.
00:00:47
Speaker
He's held pivotal roles as consultant, VP of engineering, and publicly traded powerhouse, and most importantly, CEO as an entrepreneur. ah consistently driving innovation and team success.
00:01:00
Speaker
In addition to his operational leadership, Ian actively invests in other entrepreneurs' organizations, contributing as both a coach and financial investor to help founders accelerate their growth.
00:01:13
Speaker
Ian's hallmark is building tenacious, supportive teams with cultures rooted in audacity and resilience, where collective achievement is always the goal, as his team can attest.
00:01:26
Speaker
Welcome to Behind the Build. Nice to meet you, Ian. Thanks so much for joining me. Yeah, it's fantastic. Thank you for inviting me, Curtis. I'm i'm very excited for this conversation. That was a mouthful, but I feel like was probably only the tip of the iceberg, really.
Ian's Career Beginnings and Growth
00:01:42
Speaker
um You and I were introduced by our very first guest, Matt Posey at Whitfley, who has never steered us wrong.
00:01:53
Speaker
So shout out to him. and ah obviously that that gives us high expectations for today. It truly does. It truly does. And he's he's such a fantastic guy. And I did watch the the yeah that the first episode. And, you know, he's such a charismatic guy. And and he there's there's never a dull moment with him.
00:02:14
Speaker
Well, We'll be sure to to give him a shout out. um You have a really impressive career in in technology. Now you're CEO at Octaline Technology.
00:02:26
Speaker
So to kick things off, I really want to hear about your journey, um your journey from zero to one and then one to where we are today. How did you get here? How did you get in this role? How did you get started?
00:02:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's that's great. And it's ah it's it's hard to remember back that far, Curtis. But you know it's it's funny. I um i actually graduated from from college in Montana, Montana State University, the business school in Billings, Montana. So it definitely was not one of those ah you know being able to launch out of a out of a business program and have multiple opportunities all over the place. But when I did choose to move to Minnesota, I i entered a a company where I knew that I would have the opportunity to take a little bit more of a consulting approach to ah to my day-to-day activities. And that was really one of the things that was important to me was to be able to
00:03:24
Speaker
travel and to start to learn businesses and and what makes them tick and and how I can help them be more successful in what they're doing. So I did that by getting involved with a company called St. Paul Software, which is now SPS Commerce. And I very quickly um realized that in order to help a company with their B2B e-commerce, that type of thing, I needed to understand everything about their business. It touches everything from order to cash, purchase to pay all over the place. So, um you know, really looking at just my willingness to learn and and.
00:04:02
Speaker
don't say no to an opportunity and and just continue to to learn and ah kind of be bold and and tenacious in everything that I did.
Navigating Economic Challenges and Shifts
00:04:10
Speaker
So um coming out of that more consultative approach, ah started looking at what I could do ah beyond just the B2B space and doing this consulting. So very early on, ah started a ah staff augmentation solution still in the yeah ERP implementation and B2B e-commerce space and and very quickly learned that the the the business the entire business world really still continues to operate on a network.
00:04:47
Speaker
ah And don't don't burn your bridges. Make sure that you have a positive engagement with everyone that you work with. Because even even back then, before there was LinkedIn, before there was you know all these all these different types of social networks out there, ah word gets around. And if you do a good job, word gets around. If you do a bad job, word gets around. So making sure that everywhere that I went, I tried to leave you know a kind of a positive trail and continue continued to not only invest in my own education of how ah what makes what makes companies successful, but also in those that I worked with. So helping people along the way, making those connections. And you know that was that was really the key. um When i suppose it was probably, ah yeah, kind of around the Great Recession, we learned that ah relying on projects in large organizations. So we're working with Fortune 500 companies and doing these really significant projects.
00:05:45
Speaker
When the economy takes a turn, those projects dry up and we had to change very quickly in order to in order to adapt to the new ways of of working. And it seems like this has happened a few times throughout my career where there's just... you know There's something you know pretty major. COVID was a pretty pretty good one that just changes the ways ah of working and the way that ah that your business can continue to operate and help those those customers that that you're still able to maintain. So throughout that throughout that journey, yeah ah began to get more involved on the technical side of things and and building software. And that was really, I think, a transformative ah point in my career where
00:06:25
Speaker
I started like bringing myself out of the day to day work and starting to trust others to build a solution in whatever space it was that we were in. And that was you know primarily B2B application integration, that type of thing. And and.
00:06:43
Speaker
bring in individuals that know more than I do, ah that that are just you know some of the more the most brilliant or the most charismatic people um and and help lead them in a direction, but trust them throughout the way in order to really create something that's that's magical and impactful in the industry. And then I got to just be the sales guy, right? And I got to go out promise things and make sure that the team delivered. But that's that's truly what led us into the the acquisition ah from SPS Commerce back in 2018, where the the process of of being a trusted partner with SPS Commerce, but a competitor at the same time, presented a lot of new opportunities and challenges. And working through that process, learning how a a large
00:07:33
Speaker
ah a large public company works and how different that is from a bootstrap tech org, you know, that's especially, you know, thinking about your, your expertise in in ah HR and um the the systems and the processes that are in place in a large organization around ah HR was a huge, huge learning opportunity for me.
Entrepreneurial Ventures and Octalone Technology
00:07:56
Speaker
So you know working with with a you know a company of 20 people where I i know and was at some level involved in hiring each individual or within that organization into now like working with teams ah from Ukraine and ah had a great trip to Australia to get to know the the team over there and and really thinking in ah in a more global scope and how people truly impact organization
00:08:25
Speaker
point of that, of of your value proposition with your customers um was was super was super um educational and inspiring at the same time. So so getting to see how a company like SPS Commerce works and how they really you know master um things like a um uh, just career ladders. Right. And so I, I really remember working through, career ladders with within the tech org and, um, and thinking more deliberately about how a person moves through their career. I was, it was something that, uh, as a bootstrapped organization and always being a little bit more freewheeling and and and carefree through that process, we always tried to find new opportunities for people who never really thought about like, what are the skills that you need to learn to take you where your career, where you want your career to go? So that was that was definitely fascinating. And then you know moving into ah after spending a couple of years at SPS Commerce, took a little bit of time off and realized that there's still problems out there that that I think kind of the thing that that really drives me forward is not only my passion for entrepreneurship, but also to understand how technology can help marry with a business process in order to make people's lives better. So I think at the at the core, I'm a people pleaser. And now I just get to use technology in order to make my job a little bit easier in that area. Right. And so that's that's been something really exciting as we as we launched Octalon and and went back out into the industry and said, all right, what are the tough nuts? What are the things that are really difficult for people right now? And how can we make their lives better? How can we how can we help companies succeed? How can we help those that are struggling to find a ah you know ah path forward in their in their organization to be able to ah ensure that they still you know have keep the doors open and continue to grow and and give them things to help bolster what makes them successful to begin with? And that's that's really been the passion that that um led us into ReturnsDesk and Better EDI.
00:10:37
Speaker
You covered a lot. that is a great That's a great story. And it's it's um but i mean it's very colorful, Alex. I think it helps sort of understand what that what that career trajectory, that that story arc right about your professional life kind of looks like.
00:10:50
Speaker
um So what does Octalone Technology do? Tell me about the products you offer, the challenges you solve. Yeah, it's it's really exciting. So when we when we launched Octalon, we did what I would never advise anyone to do, and that's we built a product without having a clue what it was going to do. Right. So we we basically built a platform that we wanted to be able to launch products on top of. And so based on the history that I'd had, i knew that there's there's certain components that every software solution is going to need. And so we basically built this platform without really thinking about what we're going to use it for. We knew eventually we'd get back into kind of the B2B space. And that was, you know, that's that's always going to follow me around. And I love it. it's It's something I'm super passionate about. But we wanted to open the door to something new. And so
00:11:42
Speaker
As we built this solution, got re-engaged with my network after taking a little of time off and very quickly realized that reverse logistics and returns management, just the returns pandemic that we have right now, was significant not only its financial impact. In 2025, it should around $850 billion worth of returns. Wow.
00:12:09
Speaker
yeah it's It's absolutely astonishing. um And, you know, above 15% of all ah merchandise, of all revenue is is brought back
Challenges and Opportunities in Reverse Logistics
00:12:19
Speaker
as returns. So it's' it's super impactful, but it's really, really difficult.
00:12:24
Speaker
ah So comparing, you know, the outbound fulfillment process where you've got everything, you know, all cartons are are shaped so that they can be shipped um efficiently. So they can be packaged on pallets and, and you know, brought through warehouses and um and into stores and to consumers doorsteps. Everything is really...
00:12:44
Speaker
is designed in order to be efficient in that process. But the reverse logistics side is exactly the opposite. You have no idea what you're going to see ah coming in. and And what we really focused on was that that final mile of return. So when a product gets back to a warehouse from a consumer,
00:13:04
Speaker
What is that process of inspection and determining the disposition, um trapping fraud? I mean, that's absolutely enormous. The the the fraud impact of of reverse logistics and returns is is is something that I love seeing what some of the more innovative companies are doing to try and identify um those people that are responsible for for fraud and finding ways to keep them from continuing to ah to um impact these companies negatively. But then there's also the the carbon impact side of this and and bringing, you know, so our passion is like starting to bring returns closer to the consumer. um You know, what's happened over the the last few years, especially after COVID, um as as returns absolutely just multiplied, was that we would end up shipping products back across the country. So yeah a return product would go back to back to the carrier, back to UPS, and then would be shipped back to a facility in New Jersey. And then they would look at it and they'd be like, yeah, there's really nothing we can do with this. And it goes into a landfill. ah That was entirely too common of of a um of a pattern. So ah we got more involved with the Reverse Logistics Association, which is now NRFREV, which is a really exciting thing for that organization to to be able to bring some of these things into focus. But it was really...
00:14:25
Speaker
For us, it was looking at the industry and learning very quickly that there's there's certainly an opportunity here for a business, but not just our business. It's also an opportunity for third party logistics organizations that are you know so focused, especially this time of the year, starting to get it. Well, not starting to, but being solidly into the um into the holiday shopping spree and fulfillment of all types of different merchandise.
00:14:54
Speaker
That, you know, they they staff up and and and make sure that they can ship everything on time and and make happy consumers across the country. ah But then, you know, typically in in January, that demand just drops off. And so these third party logistics organizations, these three PLs um have now a new opportunity to be able to.
00:15:13
Speaker
ah assist their brands and distributors and help them and and retailers for that matter, help them kind of finish this this reverse logistics cycle and bring ah bring those products back in and and help help manage that that product flow.
00:15:30
Speaker
so that they can you know potentially resell those items. or you know there's There's so many different opportunities that are popping up for ah beyond just liquidation or God forbid, put everything in a in a landfill, which has been that that pattern entirely too long. But it brings a new opportunity out for ah for owner operators at 3PLs, as well as just individuals to be able to ah to start getting more involved in in the the returns process and and reverse logistics. So kind of back to that entrepreneurship side of things. Yeah. our solution is really ah targeted to scale from very small organizations up to those that are doing, you know, thousands and thousands of returns in a month.
00:16:09
Speaker
You know, this leads me to like, I have a whole bunch of questions just just from from all of this. I mean, number one, I'm very curious. Well, I imagine AI plays a big part.
00:16:22
Speaker
Right. In Octalons automation. And what I'm interested to know, tell me about the kinds of, we don't have to use any names here, but tell me about the kind of organizations that work with Octalons, number one. And are these companies that you work with really eager to embrace
The Role of AI in Business Efficiency and Concerns
00:16:39
Speaker
AI? do you see any reluctance there?
00:16:41
Speaker
i think I think there's a lot of excitement around around AI. So we work with companies that range from a mom and pop shop that has one product that they they got a contract with Target and they or or Amazon. Amazon's a great example. They're selling a product on Amazon and we're helping them with fulfillment cycle with better EDI and that process automat is on automation and then on the return side as well. Right. So we get to see that full circularity within that organization end to end and then what happens with that product afterwards. So working with small organizations.
00:17:18
Speaker
as well as large distributors that are that are selling you know very expensive electronics, um is working with companies that are shipping and seeing returns of of um of clothing. Right. and So apparel is is really exciting on both sides. um But all of these organizations are looking for more intelligent ways yeah to reduce their costs of fulfillment and make sure that they can, you know bring as as much of that inventory through their their system as efficiently as possible without having you know a glut of of merchandise and a warehouse that may never sell. And that's where apparel gets to be a lot of fun. And we can talk about that for hours probably. but
00:18:03
Speaker
ah But being able to work with all these different types of organizations, they all have a very common goal, which is to become more efficient. right and And as long as the use of AI is focused around what their competitive differentiator is, what is it that makes them unique, what makes them special? How can AI help enhance that? As long as they're thinking about it in that way, ah they tend to be really excited and they see they see benefit ah from ah from ai But it's also very easy to get excited about fancy things on the market where it's like, oh, wow, look at that. I can i can you know streamline this process or I can i can um i can use this to to write all my emails for me and to do all these these things that brings the the human component of...
00:18:53
Speaker
of their business out of the picture and it becomes more mechanized and um doesn't necessarily help them be more successful, just helps them do stuff more, do stuff more quickly, I should say. So it's it's really exciting to see the innovation that AI brings forth in an industry, but also the distractions that can come with it. And and a lot of the excitement has been around more of those distractions than really the things that add value to a business. So that's where we've been um within Within our solution, we use AI in a number of ways, including dispositioning items like in the returns process to be able to ah determine the condition by a photograph and or be able to identify what the item actually is at times. by using AI and ah taking ah a photograph and then getting information about that product? Can it be, ah can it potentially be resold? What is the value of the item? Is it something that we need to look at finding a recycling opportunity for or donation opportunity for, as opposed to getting it back on a secondary market? Things like that are are very obvious, but then even looking at product
00:20:04
Speaker
um optimization of inventory and and helping companies identify where their products are selling more quickly. These aren't necessarily new concepts, but AI is helping people be more effective, more quickly ah to solve the challenges that they've they've been struggling with over time. So as long as they're using it it that way, they've been very successful. But and it' it's very easy to get excited about the flashy things that you hear about about AI. um and and not really knowing how to apply that to your business.
00:20:35
Speaker
I like how you frame it like that, you know, and I think that, um, when you do think about it that way, you know, it's, um, it, it almost makes it easy to embrace, you know, but, um, it's just so rapidly advancing across all industries in, um, in almost every capacity, right. Um,
00:20:57
Speaker
you know, not everybody's embracing it with open arms. Obviously there's a lot of uncertainty from businesses and and business communities when it comes to to bringing AI into the organization. And it's not just the business leaders, right. Experiencing it, right. It's, it's the workforce in general, I think that might have some anxiety about it. And, you know,
00:21:18
Speaker
Looking at or thinking about those those more entry-level, less skilled workers, some fear that it's going to take their jobs, right? And they'll find themselves unable to work, right? I mean, you you described... a you know, a really incredible scenario about how AI can can actually help and sort of augment the business processes really to to help make it better, right?
00:21:40
Speaker
But there's a whole other sort of, I think, dark side for a lot of folks, right? You know, when you bring it into the the that context of
00:21:52
Speaker
Is there an opportunity to use it here to do, you know, the work that, you know, to take the place of work that that people are doing? is that a legitimate fear? How do business leaders assuage that kind of worry from their from their workforce? Or, i mean, is it a conversation that they have to have knowing that, you know, the very real outcome could be there might be some staff departures?
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah, and and I think what we're what we're seeing right now, as opposed to ai replacing people, is is ah someone's role will change due to AI. And so the way that they do something will change. And it it it does, um what we've seen the most is as as AI helps make certain parts of your organization more efficient, similar to what implementing an ERP did years ago. And and like anytime a company finds a way to be more efficient,
00:22:52
Speaker
you have a risk of of displacing people. But in this in this instance, what I've seen more of is it's changing the way that that people work. um And the more successful organizations, ah as they as they adopt AI strategies into their into their organization, um the the concept of being as transparent as possible with the goals of the organization, but sticking to the values of the organization really does help alleviate a lot of those fears of of the workforce. So helping them understand that
00:23:30
Speaker
what what is our AI strategy? How do we plan on rolling this out? And what kind of an impact does that have to your role? Also should be presented with, we want to learn with you. We want to engage with you as we go through that process. um You know, I think about the yeah ERP implementations that I've been part of over the years and the most the most successful yeah ERP implementations are those where the team that will be using the solution are actively engaged in the implementation. And this is exactly the same thing. It's a new technology. and there's There's new efficiencies to be brought here.
00:24:09
Speaker
Bring along all of the knowledge that you have and these people, these people that have these little secret ways of doing things. that that are keeping your your your products still shipping and and um and and money still coming in is is a huge part of every organization.
00:24:24
Speaker
And making sure that you bring that knowledge with you and enable them to do different things and be more productive on their own. um it will It will definitely impact the hiring side of things where you will not need to replace people as quickly. um But we haven't seen as much of like a pure departure of like, okay, we just don't need these people to do their jobs anymore.
Workforce Adaptation and AI's Impact
00:24:49
Speaker
And obviously, you know, the size of the organization and and global organizations that are they are taking a different approach, um you know, have a different have a different story than than what I see in a day-to-day environment.
00:25:01
Speaker
you perspectiveive You brought up, though, a really good um ah really good topic right about what you're seeing is not that it's getting rid of people. To some degree, it is. right i mean We've seen what what happened at Amazon. right we we've seen it's It's not that it's not going to happen, right but but I think what you pointed out is that what you're seeing more often um is that it's changing how people work.
00:25:28
Speaker
so I guess ah a follow-up that I would ask is, What would you say to those professionals or or what would you recommend that they need to learn or how do they prepare so that they remain competitive, right? Whether it's in their roles or in these new roles, right? if you're If you're describing how folks might have, there might be new opportunities, right? Or it might change how they work because now there's some you know new process or system with AI.
00:25:58
Speaker
How do they prepare for that so that they can stay competitive and relevant? That is that is really that's that's really a key question. um And it's one of those things where it's it's so incredibly industry-specific and role-specific, right?
00:26:15
Speaker
um But I think continuing to... advocate for yourself and and actively search for um education around how AI is is impacting your role and how other organizations, other organizations with your role are are implementing AI becomes I think key in success, not only in your, in the organization that you're in, but if you're looking at, you know, Hey, I may potentially be moving to another company that has, you know, um a more clear strategy for me and has values that align with mine. um And how can I bring some of that knowledge into that organization as well, I think is, is, is super important. So um yeah, go ahead.
00:27:03
Speaker
Well, I was going to ask, you know you you also made a really interesting comment about where we we talked earlier about you know the shiny new object, right? We talked about how it can be um you know ushered into an organization to maybe there's as a change agent, maybe at to you know increase efficiency, maybe to do all of these things that we don't even know what it's going to do yet. We just we just want it to do something, right? We hear about AI, we want AI, we know it's going to make things better. Let's use it. I don't know how, but I want it tomorrow.
00:27:32
Speaker
So how does the organization plan for roles that are probably not even fully defined yet or that maybe don't even exist or or can they prepare for these things?
00:27:42
Speaker
Yeah, and we do know we do know of some, you know, depending on the on the industry, I mean, there's there's roles like a prompt engineer that you've probably heard of um that are just, you know, and and companies bringing more technology in-house and doing some of their own development for their own technology.
00:28:01
Speaker
for for their their own technology there are There are areas that we definitely know, okay, here's here's roles and skills that will be needed.
00:28:11
Speaker
um But at the same time, it's that wisdom of when to use AI, when to trust AI, um and and how to how to continue critical thinking skills. I mean, I think that's probably one of the most important factors of this. Maybe Eric can tell us.
00:28:30
Speaker
Yeah, right. Yeah. it's like, hey, ai how can I improve my critical thinking skills? um ah People just tend to trust what they read from AI. yeah um You know, if we're if we're just looking at, you know, chat GPT and things like, yeah, sometimes it's wrong. Right. Obviously, um we've we've We've heard some great stories over the years of of AI just coming up with some absolutely bizarre ah concepts and supporting it with non-factual information. So yeah um you know critical thinking, critical thinking skills. um An organization needs to think about you know guardrails around how they're using AI. So security is a huge concern around AI where...
00:29:11
Speaker
ah You know, people have put their P&L out into chat GPT and said, hey, analyze these numbers for me and tell me what I should do. It's like, no, no, no, no. no ah let's Let's not put everything out into ah out into this giant machine and and make all of your information public.
00:29:27
Speaker
A company needs to be really deliberate about how they are implementing AI and and really think about how can we slow roll the implementation ah so that we're doing things in a deliberate way and and focusing on getting value.
00:29:41
Speaker
Let's talk about that. I'm really interested. i mean you know Given ah everything that you've you know experienced prior to and now in your current role, um what kind of things do you think need to be included in in an adoption plan or in your you know AI strategy?
00:29:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think um taking a thoughtful approach to AI adoption is is absolutely essential. So ah looking, you know, kind of going back to, ah you know, problem solving skills, let's find a problem. Let's a real problem that we see today, not one that may happen. Let's look at a real problem that we have today. And and how would AI potentially help us solve this problem? What products that are using AI can help us solve this problem in a more efficient way than than you know just ah brute force or whatever the the current solution may be today. I think the the important thing is to focus on what your company does well and enhance that. Or if there's a huge risk in your company, how can you use AI to you know to help potentially shore up that risk a little bit so that you you you don't have that um that that that that gaping risk on the side that's kind of constantly in
Critical Thinking in AI Implementation
00:30:52
Speaker
your mind. ah
00:30:53
Speaker
we We have seen companies that that have been too nimble in adopting AI, and it leads them to a cliff where now they're depending on AI so heavily ah that if they don't have access to AI, they no longer have a manual process to ship products out. Right. So um there's there's always this balance with with technology technology. something that is that is so cloud dependent that your Internet access to your office now becomes like the most critical part of your business. If I can't access, you know, AI that's out in the cloud, um then my my business process internally may not be able to function. I mean, a lot of we have so many different cloud systems now that that's always a risk.
00:31:35
Speaker
um But as as companies, as as there's been so much investment in AI over the years and there hasn't necessarily been the profitability there.
00:31:46
Speaker
We're putting a lot of trust into something that is not is not fully vetted, right? It's like we see a lot of value from it, but there's there's a ton of risk there. So being being thoughtful and intentional about how you're implementing it so that you balance that risk and and try not to get yourself to that edge of the cliff where it's it's too easy to trust it and and fall over the cliff and and do something that that drastically harms your business.
00:32:14
Speaker
You know, we're um we're all about people here at Mustard Hub. so really curious about whether or not you have any thoughts on, on, you know, AI's overall application in the world of HR, right? So for example, being applied heavily and in aspects of recruiting, hiring, you know, HR tech, it was pretty much only, you know, these end to end AI, you know, solutions for, for pre-hire, right. From, from sourcing to ATS, right. Through offer letter signed.
00:32:49
Speaker
um Many are concerned with how top talent can be overlooked as a result, right? How problematic is this? if if at all it's it it It is a real thing. I mean, depending on on ah the the strategy that your ah hr team uses as they go through evaluating individuals, it becomes very easy to become too too dependent on AI to, you know, to really focus on what is it in that in that um profile or that that resume that we're looking for that has probably been written by or with the use of AI as well, right? And so it's it's funny that we're talking about HR and we're taking the human out of it so actively in this process where we really need to inject. for Thank you for pointing that out. I don't even think I thought about that.
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah. So, and, and, but the the risk is absolutely real. Um, and in the sourcing process, uh, within, within HR, you know, continuing again, it goes back to critical thinking and and making sure that we're not fully trusting a machine to do our jobs for us. It should be enhancing the way that we do our job. So it might, it might filter out, um,
00:34:06
Speaker
risk So you you could find individuals that there's something in their and their resume that's like, okay, that's that's probably something that we don't want to get involved in um or that they don't have experience in our industry, but focusing on the person um and and trying to identify you know even ah you know key i key statements within the the the resume or the profile that that will help bring it to the top, but don't fully trust that in the in that process and make sure that people are still
00:34:36
Speaker
involved. You're hiring a, you're hiring a person. um and, and I would never, uh, I would never hire someone without, without meeting them and having a conversation with them. Uh, and so we need, just need to make sure that we're being deliberate in that, in that process.
00:34:50
Speaker
Do you, i agree. I, um, and thank you for that. I mean, do you, do you see in other applications for AI in the world of work? i mean, what, what do you think could be or should be next in Yeah.
00:35:05
Speaker
you know I think um using hr to help with conversations, help lead conversations conversations with your employees, help help with employee engagement, um you know I think that AI can be really...
00:35:23
Speaker
really good at identifying patterns, right? um And so being able to being able to use you know exit interview data in order to identify patterns in that that in that data that might be a problem with an individual or a department within your organization that that has some potential risk in it, as well as identifying opportunities. Right. So I think probably one of the you know other than you know pay, which is always probably the the most common thing, but um individuals that that that aren't engaged or not engaged for a reason, for a reason. And that's, you know, that often points to ah leadership or their individual role, right? It seems like those are, those are two things that always pop up. So being able to find those patterns earlier on and, and bring that data forward to leadership so that they can be more thoughtful about, about these roles and the individuals in their
AI's Influence on Business Operations and HR
00:36:24
Speaker
organization. um But it's really got to come back to, you know,
00:36:28
Speaker
I think to those conversations and, and, um, bringing, um bringing forth some, uh, insights potentially that, that are harder for humans to, to identify.
00:36:41
Speaker
i think, you know, you really kind of nailed it with pattern recognition. Um, you know, and I think that a lot of businesses don't, or they haven't necessarily had you know, the ability, whether it's a ah lack of resources, technology, or otherwise, to be able to get that level of understanding of why their business is behaving the way the business is behaving.
00:37:05
Speaker
um And whether that means, you know, taking in all of this really interesting data and getting some sort of, you know, predictive insights or retrospective, right? So looking back and looking forward can do some pretty incredible things, right?
00:37:21
Speaker
um At least I tend to see it kind of go in that direction. um As all these innovations in tech and AI are are are moving so so quickly, what do you think your own work is going to look like?
00:37:37
Speaker
um Everything has changed so quickly already, Curtis. And will again in the next 18 months. that's That's exactly it. That's exactly it. and Everything has changed incredibly rapidly. It's it's given us the ability to be to adapt more quickly. And you know kind of that same thing with the pattern recognition, identifying and potential opportunities for people.
00:38:00
Speaker
where our product is going or what what ah what our potential customers are seeing, what consumers are seeing. ah Being able to bring that information forward has been really impactful. It's changed my job ah where in In the past, it's, you know, a lot of what we've done has been, our strategy has been informed by my experiences, right? So the more time I have face-to-face with people, the more information I get, the more I can adapt and, and you know and help help lead the organization.
00:38:33
Speaker
Whereas now I'm taking much more information from, ah you know, from potentially from AI or from, know, even um just being able to filter down some of the noise out there so that I can see what's going on on LinkedIn, right? AI ai is very prominent in LinkedIn and and bringing up messages of my ah my contacts that are struggling with problems or that are that have ah innovated and and created something something new that I never considered before. um it was a company called Arvis that is using ai and cameras in a warehouse. of
00:39:13
Speaker
to, you know, first and foremost to help with, with safety, uh, and, and things like that. I just never really considered what kind of an opportunity there is, uh, to be able to use AI in that, in that area. So, um, it's, it's really, it's the speed of imagination really seems to be as, as fast as ai moves. And so, um, it's, you know, even, even, um,
00:39:37
Speaker
I think about how much time I used to take ah writing a proposal for a customer. And now we've got so many models of what we've done. we can use AI to take proposals that we've done, bring some of that information back together and just streamline it, make a little bit easier for our customers to understand um and and save us a little bit of time while we're doing
Reflections on AI in Coaching and Investments
00:39:58
Speaker
it. So, I mean, it's it's really just ah continuing to keep our eyes open and and be tenacious in our learning and and just constantly ah constantly be open to to new new ideas but cautious at the same time?
00:40:17
Speaker
It makes me curious, right? Because one of the things we we've we've we've talked a lot about Octalon and how it's it's sort of baked into that DNA. But we've totally neglected all of the other things that you do, right?
00:40:34
Speaker
You're a coach. You work with other entrepreneurs. You work with other businesses. You're a financial investor in some of them. How does ai impact the other work you do even outside of this role?
00:40:47
Speaker
ah that That's actually a really good question. and And it's maybe an embarrassing answer, but not at all. I mean, i think the the funny thing is, I do think it is a good thing because it truly is that interpersonal ah relationship.
00:41:02
Speaker
um So other than you know potentially doing, you know helping with research and that type of thing, it really is. It hasn't impacted that area at all. um You know, there's there's still, i think there's still enough information thoughtful deliberation around how AI can be implemented in, in different companies that i having a conversation is still much more impactful than feeding a tool ah out into that, into that area. That's kind of the answer I was hoping for. but honest please I'm glad I got it.
00:41:40
Speaker
um You know, I, I love asking this kind of, question to wrap up, you know, if you if you had a single piece of advice for a business leader when it comes to adopting, you know, AI in their organization in a way that really, that really does right by their workforce, what do you tell them? What's that one piece of advice you're going to want to leave them with? Maybe you're on an elevator up to the top floor and before it opens and they head right out the door.
00:42:07
Speaker
How do you address that? you know I break every rule, so i'm I'm not going to give you one. um I'm going to give you probably two. And as I continue talking, it might become three. But I think the first the first thing is ah be transparent with your people and deliberate with your messaging.
00:42:24
Speaker
And part of that is it's OK if you may not have that clear vision on how AI can be used in your organization because nobody does. yeah um It's moving quickly enough and it's and evolving in a way that we don't necessarily know where it's going to be. Like like you said, in 18 months, it's going to be completely different. um But being transparent with your with your people um and being clear that you're still going to stick to your values. There's a reason your organization and why your company has grown to the point
00:42:56
Speaker
ah that you've got these employees. you I've started with just myself in an organization and built it up. And and anyone that has done that or has has come into an organization and continued to build a team,
00:43:08
Speaker
ah has to understand that there's values. there's There's things that you're doing that are making your organization successful. And that is your people. At the end, that is always your people. Your technology is great to help in that process, but but your values have to be centered
Episode Conclusion and Listener Invitation
00:43:24
Speaker
in your in your people. And as long as you continue, um again, being transparent, deliberate in your messaging, but sticking to those values, I think that's really the the key.
00:43:34
Speaker
i love that. um And you didn't turn it into three. I didn't. I kind of rolled it back into one a little bit. I was going to say, I think you rolled it back to one. All right. I am trainable.
00:43:46
Speaker
yeah Ian, I really, really appreciate you you know taking the time to join me today. Thank you so much. i feel like we got a lot out of it. ah This has been just tons of fun, Curtis. And I really, welcome the conversation and it was it was a lot of fun just to just to talk through things. And i i you know I hope to have more conversations with you like this. I feel like we're we're going to have a few. i'm going to have a couple for sure. Of course, thanks everybody for joining us. This is Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.
00:44:22
Speaker
I also recommend visiting mustardhub.com. There you can learn more about Mustard Hub and get started for free. Discover how we get help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge. Until next time.