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Nurturing Faith in the Family with Champ Thornton
446 Plays2 years ago
Champ Thornton and Rush talk about raising kids who are in sync with reality, the good gift of coffee, and learning to write fiction. Champ also shares encouragements to think clearly about family devotional time, and helping rather than harping on our kids about their own devotional life.
CHAMP THORNTON ONLINE
Champ’s Website - Facebook - Twitter - Instagram
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
The Serpent Slayer and the Scroll of Riddles
The Radical Book for Kids
The Really Radical Book for Kids
Learn more about the podcast here.
Recommended
Transcript
Morning Devotions and Family Life
00:00:02
Speaker
If I didn't have my time with the Lord in the morning, I'm telling you, I mean, you may think I'm a pretty okay dad, you know, most of the time, I would be a wreck. I would be a terrible dad and a terrible husband. I need Jesus.
Introduction to Straight to the Heart Podcast
00:00:16
Speaker
I'm Rush Witt and you're listening to Straight to the Heart, a podcast from New Growth Press. Each episode includes interesting talks with Christian writers, theologians, and friends. We hear who they are, what they think about, how they approach their important work and ministry, and the moments and influences that change their lives.
Meet Champ Thornton
00:00:35
Speaker
Today, I enjoy a super encouraging conversation with Champ Thornton, who is so easy to talk to, so down to earth in just one big encouraging word after another. If you're not familiar with Champ, you should be, and you can be now. He lives in Delaware with his wife and three kids, and he works with Crossway, publishing children's books and other resources and developing other content.
00:01:02
Speaker
And today, Champ and I talked about raising kids and raising kids who are in sync with reality. We talked about the good gift of coffee and learning to write fiction. And Champ really helped me think clearly about family devotional time in my own family and helping rather than harping on my own kids about their own devotional life.
00:01:24
Speaker
I am better for having spent this time with champ and I am sure you will be too. This is straight to the heart.
00:01:36
Speaker
Tell me some about your family. What's going on in your family?
Family Milestones and Celebrations
00:01:41
Speaker
Dude, I'm telling you, this is like a crazy spring and a very good spring because we're recording this in the beginning of May of 2023. I told my wife, it's like all 18 lanes of traffic right now are running right into the Lincoln Tunnel. It's like all funneling and it's bananas.
00:01:59
Speaker
Our oldest son, he's turned 18 last week and he's graduating from high school, heading off to college. All the things related to that is going on, end of year things for him and his two younger siblings, final sports events, final school events, exams, graduation, parties, great stuff, just pretty busy.
00:02:21
Speaker
Uh, and then my wife and I, we have our 27th wedding anniversary coming up at the end of this week. Congratulations. And so, you know, things are going on with that and just, uh, spending time with her and going out of town as well. And so, I mean, it's, it's a really wonderful, wonderful season. And in some ways it just goes by too fast to savor the moments and then you're just trying to survive as well.
00:02:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I know. I know what you're talking about.
Letting Go: Parenting Challenges
00:02:46
Speaker
We just a year ago went through that that tunnel of life with our oldest who's 18, Hannah is 18 and left for college. So she's just now finishing her freshman year. And that was, you know, a whole new, just a whole new world of kind of experiences for our family. You know, we have five kids. And so we, we all went to that, that final drop off at college.
00:03:12
Speaker
And they really did an amazing job. She goes to Boyce College and they did an amazing job with bringing the students in and that whole day of their move in, it was very smooth. But then they did this sort of commissioning service in the chapel with all of the incoming freshmen and their families. And then there comes this time in the service, we've been singing and then there's this time in the service where
00:03:40
Speaker
the leader says, okay, we're gonna have a time of prayer now for these students, but we're not gonna pray for them, parents. You are. You know, so gather together, put your arm around your student, and boy,
Health Scare and Legacy Writing
00:03:54
Speaker
I just had to say, I can't do it.
00:03:57
Speaker
That's exactly what I would have said. I can't do it. I don't know. I mean, huge kudos to the other dads in the room that kept it together and actually verbalized some sense of a prayer. And I was just, we have to pray in our hearts because I cannot, I'm not going to be able to talk. That's great. I think I would have pulled the, this is good training for my kids moment. It's like, okay, you youngest kids, you pray.
00:04:22
Speaker
And we'll say that because I'm not going to make it through. Well, I wondered, you know, when you talk about your kids and now the ages that they are, there's a lot of time there since they're getting older. And of course, throughout that time, you've been writing. And I wonder how your kids have impacted your writing and how your writing influenced your relationship with your kids.
00:04:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. I think that actually goes back before we even had kids because I'm almost 50 when I was 29, obviously much younger. When you're in your 20s and in your 30s, you feel pretty invincible. All of life is in front of you and it's a long road. Well, I had a blood clot at 29 and then a pulmonary embolism. Wow. People die from those and you think like,
00:05:14
Speaker
gives you pause. It's like life is short. Then I found out that it was caused in part because I have a genetic blood disorder that makes me clot more than the average person. I think for probably about 10 years after
00:05:29
Speaker
that initial episode, maybe a day didn't go by where somehow death didn't like flip through my mind at least once. And you know, it was just like active reflection on the fact that I've got to make this count. And so in some ways, the books I write, I write for my kids. And in some ways, I write the books for my kids and my grandkids that I don't have yet.
00:05:50
Speaker
that, hey, I don't know how long I'll have. I don't know how long the Lord will give me. And, you know, I might live to... I'm 90-something. You know, they're great. Cool. God knows, right? But there is this motivation in some ways that God put in my heart of being able to speak when I'm not able to speak any longer. And so that's part of the heart that God's given me for writing.
00:06:13
Speaker
Yeah, that's a profound way to look at it, that I want to be able to speak into the next generation and just all that you're saying is really resonating with me as I think about my life, just as we were saying earlier, you know, trying to think about time
Living with Life's Brevity
00:06:28
Speaker
and...
00:06:28
Speaker
And I recently listened, I think it was a podcast or maybe it was an Ask Pastor John with John Piper and he was talking about just thinking more carefully about your death day.
00:06:44
Speaker
And that usually we really want to put those thoughts off in the disservice that he was saying it is. And so he actually thinks through the year, if this year is the last year of my life, what would I do as opposed to if this was the last day of my life? We can't really get our hands around that too well, but more time and looking forward into the future. I don't know how easy it is to do this, but I wonder if you have a sense
00:07:13
Speaker
of what would you say is that central message that you hope is being spoken by your words into the future to your grandchildren, maybe even your great grandchildren's lives. What would be that message that you want to pass along to kids, that audience?
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really great question and I think it's something to kids and then as those kids grow and then become parents, obviously it relates to parenting as well and what they speak to kids. So I think there's a few things that come to my mind pretty quickly. So one is Jesus guides us in this kind of question because multiple times in the Gospels, there's the question asked, what's the greatest commandment? And there's hundreds and hundreds of commands in the Old Testament and commands in the New Testament.
00:08:01
Speaker
And he says, love God, that's first, and love people, that's second. And it's not a throwaway second, because I mean, even Paul in Romans will talk about like, the whole law is so filled in this, love your neighbor. So, you know, he just said, basically, he's doing a theological conclusion here that if you are loving your neighbor, then, you know, you are automatically baked into that you will be loving God. And if you're not loving God, you won't be loving your neighbor.
00:08:28
Speaker
It's a one-two punch that comes one right after the other, and of course, loving God is primary. I just can never go wrong. Kids are getting out of the car, talking to them at the house, like, love people today, love God today.
00:08:44
Speaker
ask Him to help you do that. So that's one thing. Another I would say is one way that I've liked to think about like maturity. What is maturity? Godly maturity look like? And the way I've come to say that for our family is, Godly maturity looks like moving toward people and problems in love and wisdom. And every word there counts. So moving toward. So a lot of times maybe we don't move away from people or problems or hard things, but we just kind of stand there and let it
00:09:13
Speaker
simmer. And maturity, Jesus came to us, right? He came, He left heaven, He came, He moved toward us and our problems. We move toward people, because we don't just fix problems, we're here to move toward people and their needs. But not just as a friend, we're also there to how can we serve, right? And so,
00:09:33
Speaker
It's not like, you know, if my kids come home and there's a basket of laundry there that needs to be folded, I want them, I want me to move toward the basket of laundry as an expression of love. But it's, we don't divorce the two.
00:09:48
Speaker
targets of people and problems.
Christian Faith for Kids
00:09:50
Speaker
We move toward people and problems in love because we can move toward people and problems in a way that's passive aggressive, in a way that's irritated, annoyed, those kinds of things. We need to do it with a heart of love and a demeanor of love, but also wisdom because sometimes moving toward people and problems means we are particularly careful and we're wise. Maybe that's actually a dangerous scenario and so that will influence how we do it or maybe how we don't do it.
00:10:17
Speaker
handle remotely or something else, or at a different time. I feel like that's a way that our family has an expression, a sentence to guide and shape what we value as a family.
00:10:33
Speaker
Today I want you to know about one of Champ Thornton's many books. This one is The Really Radical Book for Kids, More Truth, More Fun, a follow-up to his award-winning book, The Radical Book for Kids. The Really Radical Book for Kids continues the exciting dive into the roots of the Christian faith, which was started in The Radical Book for Kids.
00:10:55
Speaker
This book has short chapters on a variety of topics that will grab the interest of readers of all ages from 8 to 80. Kids will learn about ancient kings, legendary battles, fierce snakes and dragons. They'll discover unusual food to make, secret codes to break, fun crafts to try, and strange planes to fly. You see what I did there?
00:11:20
Speaker
They'll also uncover exciting ways to read the Bible, factual reasons to believe the Bible, and stunning truths about God, along with incredible examples of radical men and women who have gone before them and trusted Jesus in challenging times. Let me encourage you to visit NewGrowthPress.com and search for the really radical book for kids today.
00:11:48
Speaker
You have obviously an enormous wealth of wisdom, and I'm gleaning from it now just in our conversation. That's why I love having these conversations, because I'm benefiting from them. I love the way that you put that
00:12:04
Speaker
in terms of being synced up with reality. And so, you know, a lot of these resources I've put into use and they've helped me. I'm still very much growing as a parent with family worship or devotional time with our kids.
00:12:22
Speaker
I've really been encouraged actually, I've really been encouraged by by maybe like some articles that I read. I think I read one by Tim Chally's once it was about that kind of family devotional time and how what the reality of it is how difficult it is.
00:12:37
Speaker
How it doesn't always, you know, I had this idea as a younger Christian dad that, okay, this time is going to be really just, it's going to be 40 minutes and I'm going to teach them the Bible and they're going to sit with their hands folded in their lap. And they're going to listen and answer the questions and we're going to memorize the catechism and they're going to say, yes, sir.
00:13:04
Speaker
And then that's a great plan. I love that. It's so true. Yeah. But I've been really encouraged by those stories of that's not the way that it's going to go. There are going to be, it's going to be loud. It might be a little chaotic and that's okay. So, so I've had some of those help me. What's your.
00:13:25
Speaker
I wonder what your experience has been in the course of parenting. What resources did you find that helped you gain some comfort and vision in the difficulty of family worship or devotional time with kids? What were the things that really made those differences and then you built on them?
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great question. And I feel like for us, it's a work in progress. So right now, of this date, it's probably been a week since we've had family Bible time together, just to be honest. And then we'll have it for a few days and then it'll fall off. I mean, life is busy. But
00:14:01
Speaker
Did we talk about the Lord at dinner last night? Yeah, we did. I feel like there's a season for everything. Where I want to go with this is first of all to Deuteronomy 6 because we're all familiar with when you walk by the wayside and when you get into the minivan and talk to your kids, whatever the text says.
00:14:22
Speaker
And, but it first begins with, you know, hero Israel, the Lord our God is one, and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength, right? And you shall teach them diligently to your children. And then you shall talk about them while you walk by the way and when you, you know, go throughout the day. And what it's so instructive is it starts with me and God. It starts with the Lord. This is who He is.
00:14:46
Speaker
and mom and dad year to love Him. So the best thing I can do for my kids is to walk with Jesus, is to love Him and trust Him. And let me tell you, this is going off track for a minute, but... That's fine.
00:15:02
Speaker
We're always teaching our kids, right? We teach our kids in those moments when we're opening our mouths and talking about Jesus and the Bible. We're teaching our kids when we respond to problems that come into our life. We're teaching our kids when they see the priorities in our life.
00:15:24
Speaker
We're teaching our kids on our best days when we respond in faith and love and hope, and we teach our kids when we sin and we fail and we come and repent because all of those showcase the gospel.
00:15:39
Speaker
So it's not like when I lose my cool with my kids, I've all of a sudden like, that's it. I've just ruined everything. No, this is a teachable moment and they get to teach and learn. I get to teach and they get to learn what humble repentance looks like. And so every moment is redeemed in that way. So then
00:16:02
Speaker
So then what would be your advice for maybe a dad or a mom that's wanting to get moving with family devotional time? Aim low, brothers and sisters. It's like someone has said, it's like anything doing well is worth doing poorly. So just dive in and have a goal, like a really high goal of like twice a week or three times a week and start there and say, we're doing it for five minutes.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah. And you might say, well, hey, our kids are really, really little. So let me tell you something. I read a blog post years ago that commended just reading through a Psalm together slowly as a family. And so we tried this. Our youngest, our twins were two, one. I mean, they were little, right? And so, you know, here we are. I'm just going to bring you into the moment. All right, Rush. So here we are. Take
Family Devotional Practices
00:16:50
Speaker
me there. And we were in Ohio then, so you're in
00:16:52
Speaker
Ohio. We're right near you. And we're sitting in our living room and I opened my Bible at Psalm 1. And I'm like, all right, guys, dad's going to read Psalm 1. And then I'm going to read it slowly. I'm going to maybe say a few words about it. And then I'm going to read verse 1 again. And let's see if you can say verse 1 with me. And so I read all six verses. I talked about there are two different kinds of people. And there are two different kinds of outcomes.
00:17:16
Speaker
And we want to be a family that is anchored like a tree beside a river, getting all that nourishment. And then I'm like, all right, I'm going to read verse one again. Blessed is the man. And so we talk about that. And I'm like, all right, read it. Can you say it with me? Say, blessed, blessed is, is the man. Blessed is the man. Who can say that right now with me? Okay, go ahead. And so so-and-so says, blessed is the man. I'm like, that is great.
00:17:42
Speaker
Does that meet girls too? Yep, sure does. Okay, let's try it again. Can everybody say it? And so we say it together like, Oh, this has been really, really good. Can I pray for us? And we pray. That's it. Yeah, right. And the next day or three days later, we do it again. And we maybe get to the second phrase or the second verse. I'll tell you what rush shock of my life brother within like what two weeks, everybody in the family can say all of someone it is amazing.
00:18:07
Speaker
I was stunned. So then we moved on to Psalm 23 and then Psalm 100. And here's what happened. Now we're in the van and you can appreciate this. We're going to Meijer. That's a grocery store in Ohio. So we're going to Meijer and I'm like, hey guys, let's review our Bible of time together. All right. Can someone remember how Psalm 1 starts? There's a little voice from the back. Blessed is the man.
00:18:33
Speaker
That is so great. Okay, who can do the next part? And so then we kind of rotate through. That is awesome. What do you think this verse means for you today? And so a little conversation. All right, we're here, everybody get out, you know, hold hands to the parking lot, you know, that kind of thing, right? So just, it's portable.
00:18:49
Speaker
We're re-imagining what does it mean to walk by the way. That's our version. That's our modernized version of walk by the way as you drive to Meijer and to make use of those times and your experiences sort of where I've landed and the transparency and honesty that you're bringing to the
00:19:10
Speaker
To this conversation about family worship i think is is probably giving as it would have to me as a younger parent was bringing a sigh of relief. To a lot of dads and moms who are listening to what you're saying and of course that's not to say it doesn't matter it's not as important because it actually is very important but
00:19:34
Speaker
It's going to come and go. It's going to go up and down. It's a challenge, and it doesn't have to be this seminary class about difficult doctrines. It is the ordinary, everyday ministry of the Word to our hearts in really simple ways. Tell me this. Tell me when you were starting
00:19:58
Speaker
family devotionals, was there a particular voice or resource? You know, it could be a pastor or a more mature older Christian friend that came alongside you. How did you first even begin to think, I should be having this time and here's maybe how it should go. You know, what was your version of the article that put you at ease, gave you the vision of, okay, I can do this.
00:20:26
Speaker
It needs to start out small and let's work from there. How did that come to you?
00:20:33
Speaker
You know, that is a great question, and I feel like it is lost to, you know, the winds of history. I'm sure there were people, but what I am sure of is there were conversations about like, what are you doing in your family and how's this going? And then you kind of get a sense of like, oh, I mean, when the kids were younger, we did story Bibles, you know, and found that to be just really fruitful. And there's all sorts of like ages and levels of
00:21:01
Speaker
story Bibles that you can use because the attention spans are so short and it's fine. Again, I would go back to if mom and dad, you can't give someone else what you don't have yourself, right? So if you read the book of Genesis and you read a story about Genesis 1 in a story Bible,
00:21:21
Speaker
and you just think, oh, there we go. That was it. I mean, it's like, you know, it needs to impact you. This is true for all of us, right? So if we're teaching a Sunday school lesson or we're preaching a sermon or we're leading our family, there's a world of difference between a message coming from us and a message coming through us. Maybe two more book questions. And these are easy. These are easy. Here's the first. If you had to write a book tomorrow, you have to. What book would you write?
00:21:53
Speaker
I'm working on a book presently for Crossway. That's my employer. I work for Crossway, publisher. I'm writing a middle school biography of Eric Little. I'm probably 75% done with the chapters and there's still three or four chapters to go. It'll be like 112 pages, 120 pages, something like that. If I had to write tomorrow, which is not a bad idea because I need to get this done, that would be what I would do. Eric Little is at this point a missionary in China and he's
00:22:23
Speaker
torn between his calling and his loves, between following the Lord in missionary endeavor, their very war torn China at that point, or also love for his wife and young children. And so I'd want to get into that chapter and discuss how Eric navigated that tension.
00:22:46
Speaker
Fascinating and good to know that you're working on that. I look forward to seeing that when it's done. The second book question is a little different. Okay, are you ready for this question? I can see that you have a bookshelf behind you. I do. If you go back to that bookshelf right now and you pick one book
00:23:06
Speaker
that you would be excited for me to read. It doesn't mean that you think that I maybe need it or something like that, but you would be excited for me to read that book. What book would it be? Can you go get it? All right, let me think about this. What you can't see is there's more shelves over here. Only if it's invisible or invisible on screen or any other. Any book back there as far as people are listening, any book back there.
00:23:34
Speaker
All right, we'll now pause for a commercial break. Hang on.
00:23:41
Speaker
To interest your kids in fiction, check out Champ's book, The Serpent Slayer and the Scroll of Riddles. The Serpent Slayer and the Scroll of Riddles is a time travel adventure with a twist. Middle school students will discover theological themes as they travel through God's word, placing the characters into Bible events. And Champ Thornton and Andrew Nisele, his co-author, show the Bible is far from being a boring book full of instructions. Readers will discover life-changing truths.
00:24:11
Speaker
they'll never forget. So check out the Serpent Slayer and the Scroll of Riddles at NewGrowthPress.com. And now back to this encouraging conversation with Champ Thornton.
00:24:28
Speaker
All right, I am back and I cheated. I came back with two. So that's just me being a problem for you today. So the first one, how could I not talk about this book, which a lot of people have read. It's called Gentle and Lowly by David Norland. And it is a very easy to read 23 short chapters about
00:24:51
Speaker
the heart of Jesus. As Dane says in the beginning of the book, there's only one passage in Scripture that talks about what Jesus' heart is like, and He says this about Himself. He says, I am gentle and lowly in heart. So when you get down to who Jesus really is, He is just overflowing with humble compassion for Him.
00:25:12
Speaker
us. And the book just kind of unpacks that. And it's just a wonderful message that is, I know me, my personality, my background, my heart, my tendencies, and I need to be reminded of who Jesus is in this way. So I love that book.
00:25:28
Speaker
And then the other one is by one of my favorite non-Christian authors, Robert Caro working. So I'm a big fan of Caro. He writes history, biography more particularly, and he's written five huge books, won the Pulitzer Prize twice. And this short book is him talking about researching, interviewing, and writing. And it's
00:25:52
Speaker
Fantastic. Doesn't say everything you want to know about like, how do I write? But in terms of like kind of memoir and getting into his research and how he does things and what he's learned, it's just, it's Christmas. Oh, fascinating. I love it. Fascinating.
00:26:07
Speaker
Let's go back and talk more about what does it mean for this generation of young Christians to be synced with reality, as you put it earlier.
Christian Discernment in the World
00:26:18
Speaker
I think about many challenges in our world. That's true at all points in history. The challenges may be a little bit different, but they are all present, and life in a fallen world
00:26:32
Speaker
as people who are following the Lord is challenging and enjoyable because of God's grace. But what do you think it means for this current generation to be synced with reality in the coming days?
00:26:49
Speaker
Yeah, so first of all, like you just said, this is not easy. So I mean, because God made everything and He made it good, then that goodness remains. And yet after the fall, everything is also broken. And so sort of that goodness and brokenness is in everything.
00:27:05
Speaker
So anything created. So I'm a combination of good and broken. My church is a combination of good and broken. My children, my wife, this desk, this microphone that I'm talking into, my friends, my version of friendship. Everything in this world is a combination of good and broken. It's kind of like a block of marble. It's like white and dark together. And there's nothing in this world that's not marbled.
00:27:31
Speaker
Right. Right. So as soon as I think, well, you know what, this church isn't quite what I want. I'm going to leave this one and go to the next one. It's like you're always jumping into marble. Right. No matter what you jump into, you jump out of, you jump into, it's just welcome to marble, right? Yeah. And so it makes it difficult to always know how to navigate because it is marble together. You know, does this movie honor Jesus?
00:27:53
Speaker
Um, kind of, you know, it's like, well, it's, it's modern. And so, I mean, there are, I mean, for me and our family, there are lines where like, okay, if it's this, then we're just not watching it, right? It's different for every family. But having a family synced up with reality means that I'm working to try to identify what is good, what is broken. And then, you know, there are places where that brokenness outside us connects in unhealthy
00:28:21
Speaker
ways with the brokenness inside of us, right? And so there's those points of temptation, and we have to be wise about that.
00:28:28
Speaker
And so that may mean that we have different behaviors in application because we're trying to be wise and synced up with reality about ourselves and the world around us. But this doesn't always mean like, you know, we're just trying to avoid, you know, excessive profanity and pornography. What we are talking about, though, is like there is a non-reality that the mall, you know, you go shopping for the day. Every store is actually spinning non-reality.
00:28:54
Speaker
Yeah. You know, it's basically saying you dress this way and life will be a certain way. Right. You know, you do, you buy this thing and you will have this other thing, which is fiction.
00:29:06
Speaker
But it's not fiction on the order of, it's not an unreality, it's not the brokenness that seems so overt, like the things that we find objectionable in a movie or in certain kinds of music and elements in that music. So synced up with reality means that we have our radar up when our kids are watching Disney movies.
00:29:28
Speaker
when they're in the mall, right? It's like synced up with reality isn't just removing the darkest elements of life. It's being wise about things that are kind of like light gray.
00:29:37
Speaker
Right. And helping our children think this through. And so, as parents, we just want to kind of go head on into this. Like, okay, what did you guys... She said, follow your heart. What do you guys think about that? Is that good advice? Okay, why is it not good advice? Yeah. What if you did follow your heart? Tell me, like, what kinds of things are in your heart? Right. You know, I need to start kind of like helping your kids think through what's really real here. And so, I think parents even just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.
00:30:07
Speaker
Yeah, I love what you're saying and I think you would agree and say, I think what you're saying is that this work of helping this generation be synced with reality is not simply
00:30:23
Speaker
putting up the guardrails or blocking out what those messages are, but helping the next generation or helping young Christians today to think carefully about them, to give them tools that they are able to use to evaluate and to become in sync with the world around them.
00:30:45
Speaker
not to, you know, escape it or put up blinders to these things, but to be able to recognize that they're there and know how to think through them or know how to believe through them or respond to them. Yeah, and I think it is both and because we have to live in reality too. And sometimes saying, well, you know, we'll let that in our house is like, that's actually we should think about it and we should like not allow it. Right. So sometimes it is both and and we just have to be wise about that.
00:31:13
Speaker
And I feel like that's all kind of responding to what's negative in this world, but positively living in reality is there is goodness in creation. And there are things... So when our family was... The kids were little and we're driving to someone else's house, you always put your dad hat on and talk through like, hey, don't touch things that are yours. When people talk to you, look them in the eye, say thank you after dinner, don't eat with your hands.
00:31:42
Speaker
When you go to Genesis 1, we think about the commands in the book of Genesis to Adam and Eve, right? And the command we think of is, don't eat the fruit. But that's not the first thing the Lord says to them. The first thing he says is, the whole garden is yours to enjoy. And so that made me change the way I talk to my kids when we get out of the car. It's like, all right, hey, have a great time, please. And so we want them to enjoy the good things that God has made as well.
00:32:11
Speaker
I need more of that as you're saying. I map that on to my typical practice going to drop them off or take them somewhere and I see why I need more of that perspective. I need to be in sync with reality, both the good of God's good gifts as well as the challenges of living in a fallen world. So as we think about
00:32:40
Speaker
helping parents with that family devotional time, where we're gathering the kids together in the family room, we have some plan, we're setting the bar low, but then beyond that, we also want them to take ownership of the
00:33:00
Speaker
faith that they have as God is changing them. And a big part of that, as we know, is for them to begin taking some ownership in their own Bible reading, in their own devotional life, helping them form, you know, we typically call it quiet time. And so I wonder what kind of advice you can give to parents on, like me, on how we can help
00:33:24
Speaker
I wonder what advice you could give to parents like me on how we can help our kids to move into that personal devotional time and space for themselves to build that that helpful routine of time with the Lord of Bible intake, etc. You know.
Personal Devotionals for Children
00:33:45
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like I've got just some things that I think are important, and I see them playing out in my family in positive ways, but I think every family's different, every child is different. And so I feel like, obviously, whatever wisdom would dictate in your own family, but I am a big fan of the virtue of routine, of habituation, good habits. So if I've got a three-year-old, they can't even read, right? But I might say, hey,
00:34:15
Speaker
Like our youngest is Jack. Hey, Jack, why don't you have you spent time in the Bible today? And so he pulls out his storybook Bible. He can't even read. He just looks at pictures. Why don't you look at some of the pictures, think about what you're seeing and just take a moment and pray to Jesus.
00:34:31
Speaker
And so that takes him 47 seconds, maybe. But I want our kids to do this kind of thing, even from a young age, so that they get in this routine of, this is what we do, we spend time with the Lord. And then along the way,
00:34:48
Speaker
you are introducing the latest model to the kids. And so it's like, hey, guys, let's sit down and talk about our Bible time as a family. So when you're having your time with Jesus in the morning, you know one of the most important things is just pouring your heart out to Him. This is what Psalms say. It says, pour out your heart before Him. Our God is a refuge for us.
00:35:08
Speaker
So tomorrow, and you know, going forward, when you have your Bible time, I want you to just pour out your heart to the Lord. And then, you know, maybe a few weeks later, I want to adjust it further and say, why don't you guys just plan on reading one verse a day from your Bible? Now that you're old enough to read, why don't you find one verse? And if you want me to help you with it, I can. And then pour out your heart to the Lord.
00:35:26
Speaker
And so they don't have to stay where they are, but I'm really happy if our kids are spending two minutes in the morning when they're in elementary school, but they're doing it regularly and I'm trying to guide and shape and nurture it along the way. And so then when they get into junior high and middle school or high school,
00:35:44
Speaker
it can change again, but this is just kind of part of who they are and part of what their day is like. So I'm just a big fan, even from a young age, just trying to, because kids are so influenceable, right? So I think there's this, I mean, this is why kids are little and God gives us children because that are so, kids are so shapeable, right? God designed them that way.
00:36:10
Speaker
Your teenager may say, I don't want to go to church today, but your four-year-old, they may throw a tantrum, but a lot of times it's like, we're going. Why do they go to this church? Because we all go to the church. They don't have an out. They're not going to go to another church. They're going to go with us. This is what we do. Use that opportunity, that window of significant influence you have in the lives of your children to basically make them do something.
00:36:35
Speaker
you know, like, this is what we're going to do. I'll help you do it. And you know, it's you're not trying to do it against their will, but you're trying to shape their will and you can help them and guide them through that. Yeah. Okay, so so transparent question time for me, and something that I need help with about this whole, this whole issue and practice of helping my kids have a personal devotional time.
Encouraging Teen Devotions
00:36:59
Speaker
So where I'm finding myself now is I, I feel like
00:37:04
Speaker
I'm harping. I feel like I am with teenagers. I feel like I'm harping on, did you read your Bible today? Hey man, you really need to read your Bible today. Hey, did you read the devotional? I got you the Paul trip devotional and I really want you to read that every morning. You need to get up, get breakfast and then take that time first and here's how you do it. But then I feel like I'm harping a lot. I'm doing a lot of,
00:37:32
Speaker
Hey, come on. Come on. Don't you want to read the devotional? Come on. Did you read the Bible? Come on. And I wonder what what advice and this is completely transparent. I'm being completely honest. Yeah. How how how can you help me think about that? Because I know I need to change something, but I honestly don't know exactly what I can change about that.
00:37:59
Speaker
So obviously, parents, we can't change our children's hearts, right? Yeah. But I think when you see patterns in children's behavior, then it's not business as normal, right? Yeah. So if I see a pattern, if I don't see a pattern, if I see an occasional thing, then I feel like reminders are completely appropriate, right? Like, oh, hey, Judas, you do this? Oh, thanks, dad. I forgot.
00:38:21
Speaker
But if you see a pattern, maybe it's a pattern in attitude, maybe it's a pattern in other kinds of behavior, maybe it's a pattern of not having Bible time, then I feel like I kind of want to pull the car over the road, metaphorically speaking, and have a different approach. So that might mean I'm taking my child to breakfast, and then while we're there, it's like, I really want to talk to you about something. I'm noticing this. Can you help me understand?
00:38:42
Speaker
Is this something you're wanting to do, not wanting to do? Where's your heart in this? And I just try to be pretty direct and just explore, talk to me, what's going on? And then maybe I'll be so blunt as to share and say, let's just say my son Jack again. So if this is the case with Jack, Jack,
00:39:06
Speaker
if I didn't have my time with the Lord in the morning, I'm telling you. I mean, you may think I'm a pretty okay dad, you know, most of the time. I would be a wreck. I would be a terrible dad and a terrible husband. I need Jesus. And I would just level with him and say, this is serious. Like, you may not know how much you need this, but you need this so much. So can we just be praying together for the next week when I tuck you in at night?
00:39:31
Speaker
I'm just going to be praying with you that God would help you with this. Can you mind? Can we do that? And let's just ask Him to change your heart so that you want to have this time with Him, because He can do that. I can't change your heart. He can. Let's pray about that. I'll pray about that for you. I'll pray about that with you. And maybe start there and just see where the conversation goes. Good advice. That's what I needed.
00:39:53
Speaker
really help. That's very helpful to me. Um, I'm going to try to put that into practice because I think that's, that's the kind of change that I need to think better through, you know, more in sync with reality, I suppose.
Gratitude and Reflections
00:40:07
Speaker
Uh, and that's, but that's, that's good advice. So thank you for that. Yeah, brother champ. I've been really, I've been really blessed by just having this conversation. I've been helped
00:40:19
Speaker
I think I know that anybody who listens to this is going to be helped and encouraged like I've been. And so that's exactly what I hoped we would have is an encouraging conversation and you've been a big help to me today. Well, thanks, Russia. It's encouraging to hear and it's just been fun talking with you and catching up. It's been too long and I look forward to chatting with you again.
00:40:45
Speaker
You've been listening to Straight to the Heart, a podcast from New Growth Press. You can learn more about Champ at his website, champthorton.com. Our next episode releases next week, and I look forward to seeing you there.