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How Parents Should Engage Children with Juan and Jeanine Sanchez
401 Plays6 months ago
In this episode of Straight to the Heart, our host Rush Witt enjoys a conversation with Juan and Jeanine Sanchez, coauthors of a new book called Reaching Your Child’s Heart: A practical Guide to Faithful Parenting. Juan and Jeanine share wisdom about the value of reading aloud as a family, the importance of being present in our parenting, and finding a balance in our parental discipline–not too much and not too little, lest we provoke our children to anger.
JUAN AND JEANINE SANCHEZ ONLINE
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Reaching Your Child’s Heart
The Treasure by Marty Machowski
For more about the podcast at New Growth Press online.
Timestamps:
1:56 - Juan and Jeanine Fall In Love In Florida
6:07 - The Journey of Differences Between 5 Daughters
11:52 - A Key Message Shifted Juan to Be More Present at Home
16:23 - How did reading aloud as a family assist your parenting?
25:37 - What were the discipline influences in your own upbringing?
28:35 - How should parents balance their discipline to avoid provoking children to anger?
36:55 - How can parents model presence and positive instruction?
41:21 - You should not be alone in parenting.
44:04 - There are so many parenting books. Why another?
45:15 - Farewell
Recommended
Transcript
Incorporating the Gospel in Parenting
00:00:00
Speaker
I've noticed in the last several decades or so, a lot of books are gospel-centered and gospel-y, which is important. And so it's interesting how we go through different emphases over the decades. And it seems like in the last several decades, there's been a real concern to remind parents that our kids don't need perfect parents. They have a perfect savior and a real helpful reminder that we're not justified by our parenting.
00:00:28
Speaker
But what we found missing is you still need to think through how to apply the gospel in parenting.
Introduction to Season 3 of 'Straight to the Heart'
00:00:37
Speaker
I'm Rush Witt and you're listening to Season 3 of Straight to the Heart, a podcast from New Growth Press. Each episode includes thought-provoking conversations with leading Christian writers and thinkers. We hear who they are, what they believe, how they approach their work in ministry, and the moments in people who have changed their lives. In Straight to the Heart, we go beyond the books to connect with the remarkable people behind
Meet Juan and Janine Sanchez
00:01:01
Speaker
them.
00:01:01
Speaker
Today, you'll hear a first on Straight to the Heart, two guests at once as I talk to Juan and Janine Sanchez. They're co-authors of a new book called Reaching Your Child's Heart, A Practical Guide to Faithful Parenting. Juan is senior pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Austin, Texas.
00:01:20
Speaker
and his wife Janine teaches English and writing and serves faithfully in their church. Juan and Janine are super delightful and wise about parenting.
Balancing Discipline and Presence in Parenting
00:01:30
Speaker
We discuss the value of reading aloud as a family, the importance of being present in our parenting, and finding a balance in our parental discipline. Not too much, not too little, lest we provoke our children to anger. Parents like me, in need of wisdom and help,
00:01:47
Speaker
Here's a conversation curated just for you. This is Straight to the Heart. Juan and Janine, I
00:01:57
Speaker
I'm really happy to be talking to you today. I am actually talking to you from Cleveland. So I came to the basics conference at Parkside Church. And so I'm actually in a room at Truth For Life. And so I've been in here working a little bit today. And you've been doing traveling. Have both of you been traveling recently or just you've been?
00:02:24
Speaker
Yeah, I was in Albuquerque last week, but Wednesday, Junie and I, we head to Spain. So we'll be in Spain from May 8th to May 20th. Wow. What's happening in Spain? We're doing a couple of parenting conferences, one in Barcelona one weekend, and then the next weekend in Sevilla. Wow. That's a lot of fun, huh? It is a lot of fun. Looking forward to having some time alone in the in-between weekend.
From Music Majors to Parenting Authors
00:02:52
Speaker
Sure.
00:02:52
Speaker
Sure, make a great getaway, a great vacation. Well, you know, I'm curious, how did the two of you find each other in this big world? What's your story of your marriage, meeting, engagement?
00:03:08
Speaker
We were both students at the University of Florida. And so we were music majors, and we had a music theory class together and had a lot of mutual friends. And so we just developed a friendship day in, day out, doing music, life, friendship together. And then out of that, a romance blossomed.
00:03:34
Speaker
We were engaged I think about six months after our first date and then married nine months later and parents 15 months after that. So yeah, it was fast. Everything was fast.
Wedding Advice from Experience
00:03:54
Speaker
That is fast. So we have five girls and last Saturday we just did our fourth wedding. Oh.
00:04:04
Speaker
Okay, you have a lot you can tell me then. A lot of tips. What's your number one I need to know what's your number one tip we have a wedding coming number one tip dad to dad. Yeah, well, I don't know, like tip tip but I will say that, you know, the first time you can't you're kind of nervous. You know, you know that this guy will never be good enough.
00:04:27
Speaker
But at some point, we've had God has blessed us with great sons-in-law that have been faithful. And so it's a good thing. And so this is what's supposed to happen. And so my tip would be, this is what's supposed to happen. And so be encouraged in the Lord's kindness. Well, we're happy that it's happening, but it certainly is new and your advice is helpful
00:04:57
Speaker
I think that just even the weekend of or the week of just being really present with your wife.
00:05:04
Speaker
And knowing that sometimes tensions run high and to just let it go and just being there that whatever she needs at the last minute, it's like, absolutely, I'll do it. And no complaining, super happy attitude.
Unity and Learning from Mistakes in Parenting
00:05:19
Speaker
Because something typically, I know we needed water bottles at the last minute. And so not the day before last minute. And so I sent you out for 100 plus water bottles. And yeah.
00:05:34
Speaker
Yeah, so that's, yeah, that that week of the wedding, I was just, because I'm not involved in the details and the planning. And so I just, my main aim was to serve Janine in whatever way I could. And the day of the wedding, I get up early and I go for a walk. I used to, to go for a run. And so I just went for a four mile walk the day the morning of the wedding. So just kind of clear my head and
00:05:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's we've learned a lot through doing four of them and you know
00:06:06
Speaker
Well, tell me about your daughters and about your parenting journey, which now is really coming. You had this experience with all of the weddings here so far. What has your parenting journey been like? And I'm actually curious maybe what you notice as big differences between your kids, because I have five kids and I'm really noticing as they just keep getting older and have new experiences, just big differences between them and learning how to navigate that.
00:06:35
Speaker
you know, being in pastoral ministry, you know, for decades, one of the big, big issues I've dealt with in marriages is a husband who's not the spiritual leader of the home. That has been a common theme, you know, decades ago. It seems like younger couples today are a little bit more attentive to those needs. So that's an encouragement. But, you know,
00:07:04
Speaker
I wasn't passive, but my focus was on ministry and work, and I had made some wrong assumptions. And so Janine was basically parenting alone, and she prayed faithfully for six years. She was not a critical, complaining wife. She went to the Lord.
00:07:24
Speaker
You just forgot about this time. Maybe I did. That's one of the kindnesses of the world. I have a really short memory. Once we resolve issues, it's pretty much gone. But we went to a parenting conference. We've been married six years, three kids at the time.
00:07:44
Speaker
And that's when the penny dropped for me. And so Janine was kind of doing the discipline and the instruction at home. I was I was in a pretty busy church context, where I had a lot of hats that I was wearing. But once I realized my responsibility, I repented and began
00:08:06
Speaker
trying to learn and trying to understand. And it was really sweet that, you know, it wasn't that long before the roles were realigned. And Janine was coming to me for parenting, you know, council and for leading in the discipline process. And, you know, I took over the bedtime routines and, you know, reading at night and tucking the girls to bed, singing and praying with them. And it was just a really sweet time so that, you know, I would come home, we would greet one another,
00:08:35
Speaker
you know, kind of to clarify to the children, you know, she's my main, my main person that I have to pay attention to. And then it was only just a, you know, five, 10 minutes. And then I would play with the girls and we would have fun. But we will also do some positive instruction during that time, you know, play games that help reinforce obeying, hearing my voice and obeying.
00:09:01
Speaker
you know, immediately. And so it was just a really, really sweet time.
Shifting Perspectives on Biblical Parenting
00:09:06
Speaker
Yeah, Janine, what was your experience or perspective on those busy, busy seasons? And how that transition happened? You know, what was that like for you as mom and wife?
00:09:17
Speaker
Well, first of all, really, we're not united. And so I was reading the parenting books, making the decisions, and then dutifully telling him what to do. No, we don't do it that way. Or this is what you really should be doing because you should be undergirding what I'm doing kind of all day long. And he just said, at that point, we had three kids. Our oldest, Alexandra.
00:09:45
Speaker
Um, is 32. And then we have hope. Um, I'm going to make some really good guesstimates because the older they get, you kind of forget. I can tell you what years were born, right? Um, hope's going to be 29 this year. And then Gabrielle is 27, almost 28. Probably not. Um, Zoe is, um, just got married. She is 23 and a half and our youngest Maxie is 21.
00:10:15
Speaker
And so at that time, we only had the three girls, but I was just making the decisions. And my mom gave me a book, My Mom's a Faithful Believer, and the
00:10:31
Speaker
aim of the book was helping me to see Lord change me first and it just helped me go to the Lord in prayer because I can't change my husband in the long term but the Holy Spirit always does a better job than what I could do and so I just was praying and probably not as faithfully as you probably think I was but
00:10:58
Speaker
I was praying and then the Lord did his work in sending us to a parenting conference where biblical theology was the basis of our parenting and not behavior modification or having good morals, but why are we doing what we're doing and that
00:11:13
Speaker
really pulled one in. So that was that was a great encouragement to me. And leadership change can be really messy because as women know, like, we probably would do the job better. We can do it better. But but just coming together and being unified and caring for one another and having just honest conversations in times of non conflict to get on the same page was very helpful. And
00:11:43
Speaker
Juan was reading the books and we were discussing them and coming together. So it was a real blessing. What do you think was the central catalyst at the conference that got your attention? Juan, was it something about a particular speaker that you looked up to? Was it a specific point or, you know, what shifted things? I mean, because lots of people go to conferences and they come away thinking the same thing they thought when they got there, but something changed for you.
00:12:12
Speaker
Yeah, it wasn't the speaker. I didn't know who they were going into the conference and it didn't really matter to me. I think the impact that was made for me was that he was going to scripture and drawing out from scripture a theology of parenting. And that made a lot of sense to me.
00:12:31
Speaker
And I grew up in a home, I love my parents, they weren't believers. I grew up in a different culture. In my culture, I'm from Puerto Rico. In my culture, the child is central in the home. And so I didn't observe anything. Both my parents worked really, really hard. We didn't have a lot. And so once I got to middle school and high school, we moved to Florida in the United States when I was eight.
00:12:57
Speaker
And by the time I got to middle school, I was riding the school bus, I was home, my parents weren't home, I would get on my bike, you know, drive down the lake, I mean, ride down my bike to the lake, you know, two or three miles. And I pretty much raised myself in a lot of ways. And, you know, thankful for the Lord's mercy.
00:13:16
Speaker
And so I didn't have a lot of good models. And but I did have I have had models of hard working parents who loved us and cared for us. You know, they they did discipline us. But we didn't have a home that was rooted in Scripture.
00:13:37
Speaker
And so when we went to the conference and he was looking at scripture and showing from scripture the responsibilities of parents, that really spoke to me. And it's just how my brain works. That's how God has made me. I want to know the truth from God's word and build doctrine and then live it out. And so that's why in our book, we began with a biblical theology of parenting. I just think
00:14:04
Speaker
You know, some parenting books are our how to kinds of books. And that's really important. I've noticed in the last several decades or so, a lot of books are gospel centered and gospel II, which is important. And so it's interesting how we go through different emphases over the decades. And it seems like in the last several decades, there's been a real concern to to remind parents that our kids don't need perfect parents.
00:14:31
Speaker
they have a perfect Savior and a real helpful reminder that we're not justified by our parenting. But what we found missing is you still need to think through how to apply the gospel in parenting. And so we try to lay that biblical theological foundation and from that talk about, you know, biblical principles of parenting and then make some really practical applications to answer the how-to questions.
Book Promotion: 'Reaching Your Child's Heart'
00:15:02
Speaker
Raising children can feel overwhelming as you try to navigate the many voices telling you what to do and not to do. But God has already given you everything you need to be a faithful parent.
00:15:14
Speaker
All parents struggle in this way, and that's why you and I need to read Reaching Your Child's Heart by Juan and Janine Sanchez, as they encourage us as parents from their gospel-shaped perspective that children don't need perfect parents. They need a perfect Savior.
00:15:32
Speaker
Even though you may be exhausted and discouraged, take heart from the simple biblical principles shared by Juan and Janine that will point you to Jesus as your guide and helper as you seek to shepherd your children through every age and stage of growth.
00:15:48
Speaker
As they share their own journey of parenting five children, Juan and Janine highlight the importance of a team-based approach of parenting together. They emphasize focusing on children's hearts rather than behavior modification, and they illustrate how daily faithfulness in the routine cares of life is never a waste of time. Again, you can learn more about reaching your child's heart by Juan and Janine Sanchez when you visit our website, NewGrowthPress.com.
00:16:21
Speaker
So you guys have mentioned here the role of reading because you mentioned earlier Juan that you were doing reading with the kids after this shift happened and you're mentioning parenting books and the importance of having books that have helped to shape us. I'm curious what is the history for the two of you growing up in terms of reading in your home and then how has reading become a central part of your parenting approach both for yourself and for your kids?
Fostering a Literature-Rich Home
00:16:52
Speaker
Well, and I think growing up, there wasn't a big emphasis on reading. Juan was in the band. I was an athlete. And so we were doing lots of doing. And although developed a love of reading and learning. And so that grew in me. And so once we started having children
00:17:18
Speaker
We also homeschooled. But even before we were actively homeschooling, we just learned of the importance of being a literature-rich home. And that really, probably we had been parenting for four or five years. Our second daughter was one. And we really developed the conviction that to be a literature-rich home, we needed to get rid of the television, turn it off.
00:17:48
Speaker
And that for us was the tether, something we needed to just cut. And once we did that, we had time. How are we going to fill our evenings being active together? But we really started reading age-appropriate books to our kids. And that love continued through the life of our family.
00:18:09
Speaker
We kind of have two sets of kids. We have the three older sets, you know, the older ones, and then we have the two little ones. But that still carried down to them, and we've seen them develop a love for reading that has really enriched their lives. So that's been really encouraging.
00:18:29
Speaker
Yeah, and for me, you know, English is my second language. I learned English at the age of eight. And so I really always struggled educationally. And I've always felt behind in school.
00:18:40
Speaker
I graduated high school at 17 and I wish my parents would have held me back. You know, when we moved from Puerto Rico, you know, just giving me that extra year to learn English. So I've just always felt behind academically. I probably would have been diagnosed as ADHD. You know, although that wasn't a thing back then. But I grew, I went all the way through high school. This is not bragging without reading a book.
00:19:10
Speaker
Listen, I did the same thing. I went to, listen, I can do, I can do one. It's not one batter. I shouldn't say that. I didn't read a book cover to cover through high school or college. That's what spark notes are for. You're right. I would read spark notes, cliffs, notes, first sentence of every paragraph. And so I'm right there with you. Yeah. So what's interesting is I, I never really read a book. You know, it was, it was in the middle of college. Um,
00:19:39
Speaker
Actually, when I discovered Reformed Theology, you know, it's that big God theology, as John Piper calls it, that just really, it drove me to read. Now, we'll say this. I came to Faith in Crisis 17.
00:19:56
Speaker
And at 17, I went to Navy boot camp in San Diego from Florida. I was all by myself. And the Lord gave me a real hunger for scripture. And so I didn't know any difference. So I bought myself a King James Bible. But in boot camp, it was eight weeks long, and whenever we had breaks,
00:20:18
Speaker
I would just read it and read it and read it. And so the Lord gave me a hunger for Scripture very early on, but it wasn't until I discovered big God theology that I really started reading books for myself and really enjoying that.
00:20:34
Speaker
And so what we did is, like Janine said, with Alexandra, we were putting her to bed. I was putting her to bed. We were watching one of the poo videos. And whenever she got tired, I would take her to bed. But then when these convictions began to develop on biblical instruction, we literally just cut off television. And we
00:20:55
Speaker
I don't think we really had any subscription to cable or anything like that until our girls were much, much older and primarily is to watch college sports.
00:21:06
Speaker
And so by the time everyone was older and that was more part of the normal family life, we would do a media fast in February because it was the shortest month of the year. And so we would just have no television at all during that time. But we just found
00:21:26
Speaker
in the evenings reading out loud became really crucial and it did a number of things. Number one, it taught the children how to sit still. You know, we would allow them to color as we were reading. It allowed them to develop a love for reading for themselves.
00:21:43
Speaker
And it actually created a kind of family identity that, you know, our girls are all readers. And one of the things I would tell Janine is our kids were educated at home is don't fret, you know, there's so much
00:21:59
Speaker
comparison and, you know, so much, so many curricula out there. I said, if our girls know how to read, how to write, and how to do math, they really will be okay, because they'll become self learners, you know, throughout all their lives. And you know, we can read a lot of history, we can read out a lot of things. And so reading became a really important part of our lives. And I think in all of them, it is to this day.
00:22:27
Speaker
And I think it's one of their biggest family memories is to sit around and we read good books together and we would put it on top of other things. We might read at the breakfast table. We would do devotions at either the breakfast table or the dinner table because they're eating. So they're a captive audience. We're there. And so we just, those are great family memories.
00:22:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think maybe parents that are not as acclimated to reading in their home and they want to might not be real clear on what kinds of books you
Choosing Age-Appropriate and Biblical Books
00:23:01
Speaker
were reading. What were the books that you remember being most prominent? Are they, you know, historical fiction? Are they nonfiction? You know, what kind of books were you reading?
00:23:10
Speaker
Well, when they were little, we did picture books, age-appropriate books, and there are so many great guides online, but we would do age-appropriate picture books, and that's how we started our day. Every single day was something like that.
00:23:26
Speaker
an age-appropriate Bible, whether it's the Beginner's Bible, something like that. I mean, there are more resources. There are better resources now than there were then. So we would rotate. We would read history aloud. We would read historical fiction. We would read
00:23:43
Speaker
great books like Chronicles of Narnia. You know, those types of books with Johnny Tremaine. You know, my girls had their first literary crush with Johnny Tremaine. That was great. We could talk about those things. So we started with age appropriate books that kept their interest. And then as I said, at the night at the dinner table mostly, is when we would read from the Bible.
00:24:11
Speaker
And we would start with an Old Testament book and we'd read through it and then a New Testament book and they would ask questions and we used a translation that was easier for them to understand just so, you know, it was on their level.
00:24:26
Speaker
As we've been talking in this episode about reading to our kids, I have a suggestion. The Treasure. In The Treasure, bestselling author Marty Michalski takes young readers on an exciting biblical voyage to discover the treasure of God's love revealed in Luke's letters to Theophilus, both Luke and Acts.
00:24:46
Speaker
In the tradition of his well-loved bestsellers, Theology and Wonderful, Marty Machowski weaves a study of the Bible with a fictional story. The treasure follows the adventures of Myra and Theos who discover a sea captain's personal journal which offers clues to a hidden treasure.
00:25:04
Speaker
They can only solve the riddle of the treasure by studying two ancient scrolls, the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts. Young readers will journey with the siblings as they solve their puzzle and discover the captain's treasure, Christ. The treasure will help children grow in their knowledge and love of God. You can learn more or purchase your copy of the treasure when you visit NewGrowthPress.com.
00:25:31
Speaker
Back to my conversation with Juan and Janine Sanchez.
00:25:37
Speaker
You mentioned earlier going to Navy boot camp and it makes me think to ask you what has been the role of discipline or maybe even the source of discipline in your family.
Discipline: Lessons from Military Experience
00:25:53
Speaker
Did that experience bring some discipline to your life and then to your family or is it coming from somewhere else, some other influence for both of you?
00:26:03
Speaker
Yeah, the military was very influential for me and very impacting on my life and really worldview in general as it relates to discipline and authority structures, chain of command, leadership, maybe a little bit too much at first. You know, if you know the sound of music, I was Captain Von Trapp without the whistle.
00:26:25
Speaker
And so today one day said, look, do you want a home that is better homes in gardens or do you want relationship with your girls? I said, can we have both? And so that's what we worked on. Yeah.
00:26:41
Speaker
I think for me too, it's the athletic upbringing. My dad put us in tennis when I was five, or put me in tennis when I was five. I have two older sisters. I think just that discipline and
00:26:59
Speaker
was pretty evident in my life, but I'm also, even though I'm the youngest, I have oldest child tendencies. And so it's just really, it's just something that is, it is the way I am and having five kids. I see that some of them are more naturally disciplined. It comes easier for them. They like order and then others are more creative, free spirit, and they work better under different circumstances that I don't.
00:27:30
Speaker
And they don't always, you know, once, once we got to their hormone stages, you know, and they're older, they actually, each child changes, you know, they go through that phase, and so they need to be redirected. So it was really interesting, you know, when our oldest went through puberty, because she was the most compliant, responsible child, then all of a sudden, it's like she forgot how to pick up the clothes from the floor of her room.
00:27:56
Speaker
And so that was an interesting experience for us, you know, to understand as they're changing in life, we also need to change with them.
Balancing Discipline and Avoiding Anger
00:28:07
Speaker
Yeah, one of the challenges that I think most parents feel, especially as they want to have a sense of discipline in their home, is finding what is likely a balance between proper discipline, but yet without it becoming overbearing and then moving into what the Bible refers to as provoking your children to anger. And I know that you too have written about that. And I'm curious what your experience of finding that balance has been like,
00:28:37
Speaker
in your family, especially as kids change and different, you know, you have to be kind of on the move and on your feet, you know, thinking on your feet. Yeah. And, and of course, you know, we're very imperfect in applications, you know, so we're learning along with them. You know, the first child tends to be the experimental child. So we learn, we learn a lot along the way.
00:29:01
Speaker
But I would say, you know, we have to be students of our children and we have to learn how each of them responds and what they're like and how to talk to them. But, you know, we can provoke our children with a lack of discipline, like not actually giving our children direction, instruction and discipline can be provoking.
00:29:24
Speaker
Um, and so one of the things that I, that, that was missing in our, in our life that we realize was positive instruction. And so sometimes we tend to discipline because we're in convenience and that's wrong.
00:29:42
Speaker
And then sometimes we discipline for things that are disciplinable, but we haven't instructed. And so, for example, we can't expect our kids to divine what we're thinking. We can't expect them to guess what the biblical standard is if they've never been instructed. And so I think that our home should be characterized by
00:30:06
Speaker
positive instruction. In other words, we're instructing to the standard. We're instructing what God's word says. We're helping them understand what's right and wrong. And then if they purposely transgress
Providing Positive Instruction
00:30:20
Speaker
against that in defiance, you know, that's when discipline is to be practiced in love, you know, applying the gospel, working through the gospel. But I know in my culture in particular, there's just a lot of
00:30:35
Speaker
you know, negative correction. And what I mean by that is, it's like kids have no clue what they're doing wrong. They just know they're doing something wrong because they're told that. And I think that's very unfair. And that does provoke children. It's like a guessing game. Okay, what's, you know, what's my, what's my dad going to get mad about this time?
00:30:53
Speaker
We talk about too in the book how your parental instruction and guidance is very, very deep and high the younger they are, or if you're just actually starting. If you have a six-year-old or an eight-year-old and you're just starting, their freedoms are low and your parental authority and instruction is really high.
00:31:14
Speaker
And then as they grow, we notice that they're coming closer together because you've laid that foundation, you've given that biblical instruction, and there has to be room for failure as our kids are growing, and then we're continuing to instruct them, we're coaching them on the sidelines, we're picking them up, okay, what could be done differently? And I think part of that in our home was the appeal process of
00:31:40
Speaker
giving that instruction, making those decisions, and our kids having the freedom in respect to say, hey, can we talk about this? I disagree. And that they have that voice and we may go, hey, that's really great information. I didn't understand that or know that. And that may help us make a better informed decision, but it may be
00:32:04
Speaker
You know, let me explain in better ways why we're still going to stand by this decision. We saw this as our girls were getting older. And I remember at one point, you know, she gave us more information. We made the decision. We held our guns and she said, you know, I don't agree with you, but I trust you. And to me, that was just such a beautiful place to get in that she would still come under our authority, even though she didn't agree with us.
00:32:32
Speaker
Um, and so that was a really, that was really a great moment for us in our parenting. Yeah. I'm encouraged to hear you say that we have tried though, as you said, one imperfect, very imperfectly, uh, to employ some of those principles like appealing. And it sounded really clunky at first, you know, trying to help our kids at a young age know that they can come and they, they should say something like,
00:32:57
Speaker
may I appeal to you or may I tell you something you might not know? And I needed to be as a dad and I was not always ready to entertain that. Sure, tell me something that I don't know about the situation. But I appreciate you saying that because it has been helpful to us and
00:33:18
Speaker
That's one of those things that I think probably sounds like the way I just said it. It sounds kind of wooden and clunky and it seems like, well, how would that be helpful? But it's really strange the way that with some time, they learned ways to put that in their own words and it was a help to us.
00:33:37
Speaker
Yeah, and basically, it could be something as simple as, you know, hey, dad, mom asked me to do this. And so what you're asking me to do is different or contrary to that. And so again, that would be really helpful for me to know that.
00:33:53
Speaker
Well, and we even modeled that to show the kids, like Juan would make a decision and I may be like, oh, in my head, that is a horrible decision and he doesn't have all the information that he needs. And I say, hey babe, can I appeal to you on this? What? Okay, let me give you more information and help you make an informed decision. And just modeling that in our relationship was really helpful for the kids to see as well.
00:34:20
Speaker
Right, right. Yeah, that's very helpful. I wonder, I wanted to ask you if there is a specific example that comes to mind about the kind of parenting of which I know that I'm guilty and I have my own examples of when maybe I was corrective of my kids as though they had done something wrong, when it really was that they didn't know how to do the thing I was asking.
00:34:45
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, for me, I have a personal memory, you know, my dad was working on the car, and he asked me to get a tool. And I got the wrong tool, and he rebuked me. And he never taught me what tool was what. And so I think, I think sometimes we do that as parents.
00:35:04
Speaker
you know, we expect them, like I said, to guess what's going on in her mind, or just to, we assume they're going to know things. But if we haven't instructed, it's really unhelpful. But I mean, I remember, it's important to ask questions. I remember one time Janine discipline the wrong child and I had to ask for forgiveness. Yeah.
00:35:25
Speaker
I don't remember that but I'm totally sure I did it. Sure that's that short-term memory. That's that short-term memory kicking in. But I think too like as you're helping your kids equipping them to handle their emotions for us to be like just stop crying get it under control.
00:35:42
Speaker
What does that look like? And there are actually tools to help children gather their self-control, like folding their hands. So those are things that we would do. Hey, let's fold your hands together, take a deep breath. Our little two-year-old granddaughter knows how to do this, and she...
00:35:59
Speaker
she breathes out, you know, and that is a visual tangible thing that she can do to gather her emotions and her self control by folding her hands and take a deep breath in and a deep breath out. So actually putting feet to your instruction.
00:36:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's great practical advice and I'd like to put two things together actually and ask you this two things we've been talking about one is about being present and the other is the idea of positive parenting or positive instruction. And when we put those two things together, it makes me think about the role that we as parents can have in what we model.
00:36:41
Speaker
before our kids, because there's an instruction and a presence that comes together in that place.
Being Present and Modeling Behavior
00:36:48
Speaker
And what kind of godly presence or behaviors have you found most instrumental in your parenting to try to be modeling these things among your children?
00:37:01
Speaker
Juan has always had busy jobs that are very demanding. I can think of one season of life where he was a full-time student working part-time at the seminary with a three-quarters time pastor at his first pastorate. And it was just a really, really busy season. But when he was home, he was home.
00:37:22
Speaker
We knew after work, that timeframe, we would eat dinner together. He was fully present with us. And then once the kids were in bed and he needed to get stuff done, then he would utilize that time. So we were just guaranteed to those hours without distraction. It's very easy to get distracted, but we weren't distracted by the television. We weren't distracted.
00:37:49
Speaker
in the same way by cell phones that families are now.
00:37:53
Speaker
Even now as we sit down as a family, we have all adult daughters and they will say, hey, no phone zone. They know we sit down to dinner, no phone zone. We sit down to play games together or whatever, that that's an area that we really don't have to share. And I think that was so good for girls to see that when daddy was home, I always came first. He gave me attention first and that gave them, I think,
00:38:20
Speaker
great security in our marriage. And then he really poured in time to play with them and read with them and teach them positively.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think, you know, there's a myth about quality time, you know, in the myth is that somehow we can coordinate or plan quality time. And I've just learned that quality time flows out of quantity time. In other words, it's it's when we're together that, you know, providentially quality moments and memories occur.
00:38:54
Speaker
And so, you know, we did some things, uh, that created some really quality time and memories, uh, like camping. There was a season where our girls were younger that we would camp and then, uh, hiking, you know, those kinds of outdoor activities so we could do them as a family together, you know, and, and again, just reading aloud that that was a quality time, you know, that just flowed out of just being together in the evenings.
00:39:23
Speaker
Bedtime.
00:39:25
Speaker
you know, the times that we would have conversations at bedtime and praying together. So the quality time flows out of the quantity time that we spend together. And, you know, Janine was really impacted by something that John Piper said one time about him growing up in his home. His dad was an evangelist who was gone quite frequently. And his mom just kept reminding them that he was doing the Lord's work.
00:39:54
Speaker
And I think that was really important for him. And so Janine really adopted that when I was absent, just reminding the kids, you know, we're doing eternal work together. And this is our way of supporting that eternal work of the gospel.
00:40:11
Speaker
And I think too, um, we would think through positively, what are, what are some issues that we're dealing with with the kids? So, um, and I've encouraged parents just get a three by five card and write down some, some ways.
00:40:26
Speaker
you're struggling with with your kid and see if you can see any overarching themes and then we would teach to the positive quality so we're not going to always just talk about lying and why lying is wrong we're going to look at God's word and say what does God think about truthfulness and how is this evident in his character and then what are the blessings of truthfulness then on the flip side
00:40:49
Speaker
What does God think about lying? And then what are the curses associated with people that lie? And so those are just ways that we were teaching both positively
00:41:00
Speaker
and negatively to whatever issues that we were seeing going on with our kids, because I think it's very normal to get overwhelmed with all of the issues, especially when you have multiple children, and we just need to be able to focus it down and know that God's word is sufficient.
00:41:20
Speaker
I think that's an important point that you're making, Janine, because sometimes it can feel, like you said, with multiple kids, it can feel overwhelming and it can feel like, I feel like I can't do this on my own. Like I don't have enough. And again, there's the reminder that we can't do it on our own, right? We need help.
Community Support in Parenting
00:41:39
Speaker
Yeah, not only that, you know, we need help. For us, we always look to couples who were parenting ahead of us. And that was really important, you know, couples who can mentor us. Even without that language, it really was just the relationships of a local church that were a tremendous blessing. And help us remember we are not alone. I remember when we were in a church, we were newly married and we didn't have any children.
00:42:08
Speaker
And the Lord connected us to a couple. He was a deacon and they had three daughters, you know, and we just watched them parent and they enveloped us into their life. When we moved to another church, there was another couple that had two boys. And again, they enveloped us into their lives and we were watching them parent. They gave us our first devotional book. And so I just I can't say enough about the role of the local church in helping parents and in parenting because
00:42:37
Speaker
You know, the Lord has given us spiritual fathers and mothers and spiritual grandparents. And then we too have spiritual children. And so we're to live together as a church. This is one of the ways that God displays His wisdom is as we live life together as a church. And so, you know, we should envelop single parents into our lives. We should envelop children who come that they have unbelieving parents.
00:43:05
Speaker
But we should be asking, younger parents should be looking at older parents and asking them, what did they do that has helped them in their relationship with their children? I remember one time we invited a family to come over to our house because it had three daughters and they were ahead of us. And we just had the parents come over and we just peppered them with questions. And one of the things that they just mentioned was board games.
00:43:35
Speaker
And so we've enjoyed games, but that was just a real helpful reminder. You know, board games themselves build the kind of family identity, you know, we were just playing cards last night with our two youngest girls, you know, at the house, they're adults, but we still have that in common. And so I just, I think living life together as a church is vital, and important, and that we don't have to do this alone.
00:44:03
Speaker
So maybe one last question that could be on the minds of some listeners seems like they have shelves full of parenting books at bookstores. So with your book, Reaching Your Child's Heart, that might be a question that someone asks like, do I need another parenting book?
Unique Value of 'Reaching Your Child's Heart'
00:44:18
Speaker
What's different? What would be valuable? Yeah, no, I think that's an excellent question. You know, I'll say four things. Number one, it's short. And so you can hit really fast.
00:44:32
Speaker
Yeah, you know, short books are really good and helpful. But in all seriousness, out of my own experience, I just found helpful establishing a biblical theology of parenting. You know, like I mentioned earlier on, there's a lot of gospel-y type books that are really helpful and important. But what we have found is that people are really asking the how-to questions. Like, how do we do this?
00:44:56
Speaker
And so rather than go right to that, we thought we would establish a biblical theology of parenting, give really biblical and theological reasons for why we're doing it, biblical and theological reasons for how to do it, and then flesh out practical ways of doing it.
00:45:14
Speaker
Juan and Janine talking with you is enjoyable. It's encouraging. It is convicting. There are a lot of things we've talked about today that I still see as a need in my parenting with kids that are, you know, still coming up in our home. And so I'm grateful for that. And I really do hope that the two of you have a really enjoyable, fruitful time in Spain as you're headed there very soon. Thanks. We appreciate that. It's been fun.
00:45:59
Speaker
And if you'd like to learn more about past seasons of our podcast, you can visit newgrowthpress.com forward slash podcast. Our next episode will appear next week, wherever you get your podcasts.
00:46:00
Speaker
Thank you.