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Stuck in a Marriage Rut with Bob Lepine
444 Plays10 months ago
In this episode of Straight to the Heart, our host Rush Witt, talks with Bob Lepine, an author, pastor, and radio host whose recent book, Build a Stronger Marriage helps married and engaged couples to apply the gospel to their relationship. They discuss resolutions to marital conflict, key problems couples face, and the signs of a healthy marriage.
BOB LEPINE ONLINE
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Build a Stronger Marriage
Reclaim Your Marriage by Jenny Solomon
Restore Your Marriage by Curtis Solomon
Table for Two by Dave and Krista Dunham
Learn more about the podcast here.
Timestamps:
1:35 - Intro
3:20 - What’s your advice to a couple moving toward marriage?
7:20 - Is there a common issue most couples face?
10:40 - How have you seen conflict at work in your marriage?
15:25 - The central goal of marriage
18:45 - Practical examples of building a stronger marriage
23:10 - How to know when to overlook or confront a marriage problem
28:05 - Habits are key in healthy marriages
35:35 - What have marriage taught you about yourself?
39:30 - How can we help or teach other married people when we have our own marriage problems?
43:30 - Farewell
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Transcript
God-Centered Relationships
00:00:00
Speaker
And I think the tug of war often happens because we're back to, here's what would make me happy, here's what would make you happy. Oneness really comes when we identify what makes God happy. And Philippians 2 goes on to say, do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility, regard one another as more important than himself.
00:00:26
Speaker
I'm Rush Witt and you're listening to Straight to the Heart, a podcast from New Growth Press. Each episode includes thought-provoking conversations with leading Christian writers and thinkers. We hear who they are, what they believe, how they approach their work in ministry, and the moments in people who have changed their lives.
00:00:45
Speaker
In Straight to the Heart, we go beyond the books to connect with the remarkable people behind them.
Introducing Bob Lapine
00:00:51
Speaker
In this episode, I'm delighted to spend time with Bob Lapine. Bob is an author and pastor who also serves as the host of Mornings on Family Radio, a network of more than 70 radio stations in the US, and he hosts The Bounce, a podcast for pastors and church planters.
00:01:09
Speaker
Most recently, he's the author of the book, Build a Stronger Marriage, The Path to Oneness. And hey, that's what I need. And if you're married or approaching marriage, it's what you need too. And in just a moment, you'll hear for yourself how helpful Bob's wisdom and encouragement can be to your own marriage and your walk with Jesus, especially if you feel stuck in a rut. This is straight to the heart.
Insights on Marriage
00:01:36
Speaker
Bob, I'm looking forward to this conversation because this is my episode. This is the episode that I need. And I'll tell you why, because I have my oldest daughter is 19. Yes. And she's getting very close.
00:01:52
Speaker
to married life. She's close to engagement. This is all very new for us. And the topic of building a strong marriage is as important as it's ever been. Of course, I still need lots of help in my marriage. And now I have sort of this strong desire for other healthy marriages right upstairs for me in my house. And so I'm grateful that we have a chance to talk about that.
00:02:19
Speaker
Well, I am as well and been looking forward to this. And of course, when I wrote this book as part of the Ask the Christian Counselor series, I was thinking of couples who are in mild distress is how I'd put it, not couples whose marriages are in deep distress, but couples who need a wheel alignment, a tune up in their marriage, they can identify some things that could be better. But along the way, I've had people who have said,
00:02:48
Speaker
for premarital counseling. This is a book that is helpful because it's designed to be one of those self-help diagnostic tools where you can sit down, hopefully with a counselor or a mentor or an elder, somebody who can just guide you through it, and walk you through where the common trouble spots are.
00:03:09
Speaker
in a marriage relationship so that you can go, ah, OK, I see that. And here's how I make the adjustment so that that becomes less problematic in our marriage.
00:03:20
Speaker
Right, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that might even be a great place to sort of jump off in our conversation today is even just thinking about the couples that are approaching marriage. And I'm curious, even at that early stage, sort of what is your main advice to couples, guy and girl, man and woman who are
00:03:44
Speaker
looking forward to being engaged and married and what kinds of things you encourage them to be thinking about to start early building a strong marriage.
Scripture in Counseling
00:03:53
Speaker
Well, I'll tell you a story that helped me in my own thinking about that. I was getting ready to go speak to some young
00:04:00
Speaker
couples who were pre-married, and I was with a group of pastors, and I said, okay, I'm going to speak to these couples. I want to talk to them about marriage, but I want to talk to them using passages from Scripture that aren't the go-to passages. So, no Ephesians 5, no Colossians 3,
00:04:18
Speaker
And we can't even go Genesis 2. I want to take me other places in scripture. And I had a lot of those pastors who said, Ephesians 4 is a good place to camp out. You know, don't let the sun go down on your anger. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another. And those were all good. But two guys said, I got the perfect verse for you. In fact, one of them said, I used this verse when I proposed to my wife.
00:04:43
Speaker
And they shared with me a verse that I had heard many times before, but I had never thought of in the context of marriage. It's Psalm 34.3. It's the verse that says, oh magnify the Lord with me and let us exalt His name together.
00:04:57
Speaker
And I thought, if we need a thesis statement, a foundational statement for God's design for marriage, I don't know that there's one better than that.
From Happiness to Holiness
00:05:08
Speaker
And I think back on my own journey through marriage, when I got married, my primary question that I was asking is, how is this relationship going to continue to make me happy?
00:05:19
Speaker
So my focus was on my happiness, what I'm getting out of this. I'm willing to contribute as long as, you know, there's a return on my investment. That's what I was looking for. And not long into marriage and reading the Bible and understanding, okay, this isn't just all about you. In fact,
00:05:37
Speaker
Ephesians 5 says, husbands, love your wives, lay down your lives for your wives, give yourself up. So I thought, okay, the job is not to be focused on me and my happiness. My job is to be focused on Marianne and her happiness. And as long as I am serving her and she's contented and happy, then I'm doing what the Lord wants me to do in this marriage.
00:05:59
Speaker
And after a season of that, I began to realize that's really not even the issue because that puts too much pressure on Mary Ann, where her day in, day out happiness is the defining, you know, I'm a slave to her happiness. That's not what the Lord's looking for. He's saying it's not wrong to ask the question, is this marriage
00:06:20
Speaker
bringing joy to me? Or is this marriage bringing joy to you? But the bigger question is, does this marriage bring joy to God? Is he happy with our relationship? And I think if couples who are getting started can start with a mindset that says,
00:06:36
Speaker
This isn't primarily about me and what I will get out of it or about what you and what you will get out of it. It's about how together we have an opportunity to glorify God in a way that we would not be able to apart. And it's a way that will bring greater glory to Him than we could do on our own. And that should be our focus so that
00:06:59
Speaker
when we reach a bump in our marriage and we go, and I wait, I'm not happy here. And your spouse says, well, I'm not happy either. We can pull back and say, okay, is the Lord happy? Because if He's happy, we should both find our delight and joy in that. And let's figure out how we can come together to please Him rather than just to please each other.
00:07:20
Speaker
Amen. Yeah, so very helpful. And I really appreciate the story you told there using a different passage than maybe the standard staples of marriage counseling or premarital counseling, which are so familiar to us. I really think one reason is
00:07:38
Speaker
When you were telling the story, immediately coming back to my mind was a book called Cross Talk by Mike Emmlet. And in that book, he really fleshes out the way that the Bible is not simply this encyclopedia where you just look up the problem, but that all of scripture speaks to all of life. And in this case, it really speaks to all of marriage. And so I'd like to ask you, through all of the years that you have helped couples at all different stages,
00:08:07
Speaker
thinking carefully about the Bible, is there a single issue that you see most couples wrestle with more than other issues? And it's a certain issue that couples could focus in on as of special importance.
Conflict and Reconciliation
00:08:22
Speaker
Well, let me just step back and affirm Mike's point about all of scripture. You know, Jesus, when he was asked about which is the greatest commandment, he says, you can sum up all of the law and the prophets in love God and love your neighbor. And I've known that passage for years. And as I was working with married couples and co-hosting a radio program called Family Life Today for so many years,
00:08:47
Speaker
I remember thinking, okay, I'm to love my neighbor as myself. Who is my nearest neighbor? Well, it's my spouse. And so if all of the law and the prophets are pointing me to how can I love my spouse, now all of a sudden, the Bible has a whole lot to say about marriage that I didn't see before. Because everything that speaks to horizontal relationships in life,
00:09:13
Speaker
speaks first to your marriage before it speaks to anyone else. I've had the experience, Marianne and I both talked about this, sometimes it's a lot easier to be civil and kind to strangers. We'll be in the middle of heated fellowship with one another, right? And the phone will ring and we'll go from talking sternly and harshly to one another to going, hello, how are you?
00:09:36
Speaker
So we can flip that switch to talk to a stranger. Can we just pull it back and talk to one another with a little less heat? And so to the question of, is there a
00:09:48
Speaker
an issue that is kind of that persistent issue in all marriages. I think we can say what is true about all marriages is that because it's two sinners who are married to one another, there will be sinful conflict that will occur in a marriage. The question is not to eliminate conflict. The question is how do we minimize both the intensity and the frequency of that conflict? And then do we know what to do with conflict when it happens?
00:10:17
Speaker
so that we can bring reconciliation and healing and bring beauty from the ashes of the conflict. Conflict can be a tool in God's hand to help refine us and make us more like Christ. The question is, do we enter into conflict from that perspective or do we see conflict from the perspective of how do I win and how do I get what I want out of all of this?
00:10:39
Speaker
Well, I wonder if I can, I don't know if this is going to put you on the spot, but I wonder if I can ask you, can you recount from your own marriage some key moment where the truths that you've been describing about conflict
00:10:56
Speaker
really came home to you in a personal way and helped to build, you know, to build your marriage stronger. Yeah, I can think of a handful of times. Here's the pattern for Marianne and me. Couples have typically one of two different ways that they approach conflict. Some dive right in, they get loud, they get active,
00:11:20
Speaker
They're animated with it. Others shut down. So I talk about the spures and the stewards. Some spew and some just stew. And neither is... We tend to think that if we're quiet and if we withdraw, that's somehow the more godly response because it's not loud and it's not overt. It can be equally sinful. In fact, sometimes getting loud can be a helpful part of this. So it's not the question of how do you do conflict. It's what do you do with conflict?
00:11:49
Speaker
when you're doing it. But Marianne and I have had those conflicts where we will say something or do something, expectations are not met. I'm thinking back to a time when we gave each other probably the three-day silent treatment. And I can't tell you, Rush, what the issue was. That's the case with so much of our conflict. We remember the battle more than we remember what started it.
00:12:17
Speaker
But we were on our way to talk about marriage. I remember being at the Atlanta airport and we just had been kind of trying to outdo one another with self-righteous silence, just kind of like, I'm going over here now, let me know if you need anything, this condescending kind of thing. And I'm at the Atlanta airport, we're about to catch our flight to our final destination and I'm thinking,
00:12:47
Speaker
I can't go in and talk about marriage and do the ministry with us having this. And so pride had to get broken down and I had to say, we need to talk about this and I need to follow what I have learned over time.
00:13:02
Speaker
are the appropriate steps for addressing conflict. How do I confront it when I feel like I've been sinned against? How do I confess it when I recognize that I have sinned against my spouse? And then what does the process of reconciliation look like? How do we go through and apply what the scriptures teach? And I would say central to all of that is
00:13:28
Speaker
identifying the issue and addressing the issue rather than attacking the person.
00:13:34
Speaker
We tend to connect the person and the issue together and say, well, this is what you did. You're the problem, rather than saying, no, this is what the problem is. And it manifested itself through you this time. But I was also part of that. Let's talk about the problem. Let's not talk about the defects in one another. And let's not personalize it. Let's get to the issue and let God work on both of our hearts. There's a lot more there I can unpack, but that's kind of how it's worked for us. No, I think that's really helpful.
00:14:05
Speaker
Okay, so you've heard us talking about Bob's book, Build a Stronger Marriage, the Path to Oneness. Let me tell you a little more. In this book, Bob helps you work through the challenges that emerge in every marriage, causing couples to become isolated and alienated.
00:14:21
Speaker
All marriages face seasons of distress and frustration. Times when, thanks to a variety of factors, you don't feel as close as you once were. Bob Lapine helps you make the adjustments necessary to build the kind of marriage God intends for you to have and encourages you back on the path to oneness.
00:14:42
Speaker
Build a stronger marriage maps out this path to oneness by first helping you and your spouse uncover how your motivations and expectations about marriage, childhood hardship, or family of origin issues, guilt, shame, or unaddressed relational wounds can impact a marriage relationship. You'll be able to trade blame, dissatisfaction, and disappointment for a stronger
00:15:06
Speaker
richer and more rewarding relationship. So please, please, please visit NewGrowthPress.com to learn more about Build a Stronger Marriage, The Path to Oneness by Bob Lapine and do just that. Build a Stronger Marriage.
00:15:27
Speaker
One of the things I'm good at is just stating the obvious. And I think one of the obvious things about marriage in any close relationship is that it's not simple. It's complicated. There are a lot of moving parts. There are a lot of challenges. There are beliefs and desires at work and so much more.
00:15:46
Speaker
And I think in my own marriage and in the marriages of others in my church that one of the challenges is that it seems complicated and it's hard to sort through that. And it's helpful to have some central kind of goal to hold on to. And so if you were to just speak to a married couple like me and my wife who are struggling in that way, how would you help us think about the ultimate goal
00:16:15
Speaker
of marriage and identifying kind of how close we are to it and how we can move closer. Well, I think the ultimate goal in marriage is joyful reconciliation from what divides us. The ultimate goal is oneness. God created us as husband and wife for oneness, that the two would become one and that oneness is an emotional oneness.
00:16:38
Speaker
It's a spiritual oneness. There's a physical aspect to our oneness. It's all of that. It's really a picture of the kind of fellowship and intimacy that the three members of the Trinity have enjoyed for eternity. We get invited into that in Christ, but God also wants us in our marriage for that to be a picture of that Trinitarian oneness. And so it is body, soul, spirit coming together in harmony. I think of
00:17:07
Speaker
Philippians 2, which starts off, make my joy complete by being a one-mind intent on the same purpose. The oneness that Paul is describing there is what the goal for marriage is. So when we're divided, when we're separated, when we're not experiencing that oneness, that's the issue that we need to be working toward and figuring out how we address
00:17:32
Speaker
And I think the tug of war often happens because we're back to, here's what would make me happy. Here's what would make you happy. Oneness really comes when we identify what makes God happy. And Philippians 2 goes on to say, do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility, regard one another as more important than yourself.
00:17:57
Speaker
And I would say, you apply that one verse in marriage, that's going to take care about 85% of the conflict that happens. If what you're fighting about in your marriage is, you're more important than me. No, you're more important than me. That's the kind of good conflict we want. It's really eliminating the selfishness. And that passage goes on to say, don't merely look out for your own interests, but also for the interest of others.
00:18:21
Speaker
The Bible talks about bearing one another's burdens, but it comes back to having this mind in you, which was in Christ Jesus, who empties himself for a greater purpose, and that is for the glory of God. And how we live that out, how we flesh that out and apply that in our marriage really is central to how we pursue oneness, which is the goal.
00:18:46
Speaker
Well, let me ask you about that because I think I like the way that you just put that in terms of fleshing it out. That really speaks to me about the importance of practical action that needs to be taken on, you know, the street level. This is where I've heard it called street level theology.
00:19:04
Speaker
ideology that's just up in the sky, it actually reaches into our daily lives and it affects some change. And so when you think about that fleshing out, what are some, maybe just a couple examples of what that looks like practically to move in the direction that you're talking about? I think, first of all, it's regular marriage maintenance. So in the same way that we get the oil change in our cars, get the tires rotated, or we should, if we don't, the car is going to rattle down the road.
00:19:34
Speaker
We need to be doing regular marriage maintenance. That means we need to be getting together with our marriage in view and asking questions, diagnostic questions.
Marriage Maintenance Practices
00:19:43
Speaker
How are we doing? Where are there issues? Where can we grow? I encourage couples to get away, have a marriage retreat.
00:19:52
Speaker
If you can do it once a year, when you've got kids, I know you're right in the thick of that. It's kind of like, how do we get away once a year? But the date nights, the regular interaction where you can be saying, how are we doing? Are there any issues between us that are unresolved that need to be brought out? And I tell couples all the time, there are two verses
00:20:18
Speaker
This is a street level as it gets for me. There are two verses that address how most conflict in marriage should be dealt with. One of them is from the book of Proverbs. It says, it's a man's glory to overlook an offense. So in our daily interaction, there are going to be innumerable causes for offense. You could get offended by this. You said that the wrong way. You didn't do this. I thought you were going to do that.
00:20:44
Speaker
It's easy to allow ourselves to get offended. It's a man's glory to overlook that. I'm gonna choose to overlook that. That means to pour grace on it. That means not to hold it against you or keep it in your account. The New Testament says it this way, love covers a multitude of sins. So when it comes to most conflict in marriage,
00:21:10
Speaker
the thing we're supposed to do is give grace, overlook. If you try to address every little conflict that comes along and your marriage won't have time for anything else, then we'll get to the bigger issues that can't be overlooked or can't be ignored, that need to be confronted and need to be confronted either because it's a burden in your own soul that you can't just look past
00:21:39
Speaker
or because it is a loving act to confront your spouse for the purpose of rebuilding and reconciliation. This is where I go to Galatians 6, verse 1, that says, if you see a spouse—it doesn't say spouse—if you see a brother who's caught in a trespass, who's—they're stuck in a sin pattern in their life,
00:22:03
Speaker
You who are spiritual, it says, which means you who have done the necessary spiritual preparation, you've spent time in prayer, you've spent time in the Word, you've sought godly counsel, you are right-minded as you're approaching this. You who are spiritual, the goal is restore the brother who's caught in the snare, being careful as you do this, lest you too be tempted, it says.
00:22:31
Speaker
So that's a verse that says, if I'm gonna confront my spouse, if I need to confront my spouse and say there's something we need to talk about, it's something, maybe it's an ongoing pattern or something you did that I just can't let go of for whatever reason. There's a process for doing that that's mapped out in scripture. And if you haven't prayed about it, if you haven't sought the Lord's read the scriptures, if you're not spiritually ready, it's not the right time to do that.
00:23:01
Speaker
You need to be full of grace as you come to your spouse in that situation. And if you're coming with something other than grace on your heart, then you're coming with the wrong motive to try to resolve the conflict.
00:23:14
Speaker
Hmm, so I have a good question, I think, that is coming to mind as you're describing that, and I think it's so important. Just, you know, I've heard it said before, you know, that love covers a multitude of sins, and knowing when to confront is perhaps when the covers keep getting pulled back, and it's covered with love, but it can be hard to know when, where that line is, and so I wonder how you would encourage
00:23:43
Speaker
a couple or an individual.
00:23:46
Speaker
on discerning where that line is. And what I'm really thinking about is how to go about thinking about it. Is it a picture of someone getting kind of, let's say a husband or a wife, getting away and working through just thinking about the issue? Is it engaging with somebody else in an appropriate way to talk it over? Because that's just so hard to know. You know, is this an overlook? Is this a confront?
00:24:15
Speaker
And then life is busy, so, you know. So I would say, and these may not be the exclusive two categories, but the time to confront, I think these are the general two categories, the time to confront is first of all, if there is an ongoing pattern of sin on the part of the other person, a besetting sin pattern, something that
00:24:38
Speaker
You've brought up, you've said, what's going on here? And it just keeps recurring. And you go, my spouse is caught in sin. And so that's the time to figure out how to wisely address that issue with your spouse, maybe with counselors involved, maybe with mature, godly people. You have to decide, is this something I think I can successfully accomplish on my own?
00:25:06
Speaker
I got a text message this week from a friend of mine who says there's this issue with my wife. And if I was doing it, she would be accusing me of this and she's doing it. And I've got a problem. He said, I I just this is really bugging me.
00:25:19
Speaker
So I said to him, I think that's something that the three of us should get together and talk about because I'm concerned that him addressing it on his own is gonna lead to deeper woundedness instead of healing and reconciliation. So he's reaching out to me, I'm saying, let's get involved and let's do this together. So if there's a besetting sin pattern, that's the first time that you might say, I shouldn't just let this lie. The other issue is if you've been hurt so profoundly that
00:25:47
Speaker
as much as you try to deal with that and ask God for grace in that hurt, and you just can't get past it. It just keeps coming up. You are trying to overlook, and like you said, the sheets get pulled back. The hurt is still there. I would say the first step in that is to sit down with a godly Christian mentor, a counselor, a pastor, an older friend, and say, this is the hurt I'm experiencing.
00:26:18
Speaker
And this needs to be a godly friend who will not just empathize with you, but who will help you diagnose what part did you play in this? Are you hanging on to things? Is there a root of bitterness in your heart? Could this be connected to offenses from the past that you're not thinking about? I remember I was with a couple one time and this wife was so
00:26:43
Speaker
angry with her husband and she said, he does this all the time. I don't even remember what it was. He does this all the time. He says stuff like this. She said, my brother, when I was growing up, he used to do this all the time to me as well. And I thought, okay, so some of your anger toward your husband is displaced anger toward your brother. Stuff you never dealt with with him. So as we dug into this,
00:27:10
Speaker
Her brother used to say to her, why are you doing it that way? You're so stupid. I mean, he was just demeaning. Our husband would come along and he would say, you know, have you ever thought about maybe doing it this way? And what she's hearing in her head are the old tapes of he's calling me stupid.
00:27:30
Speaker
Well, the husband was not trying to help his wife in a situation. So this is where the hurt that she was putting on him was really resident in her own soul with unresolved issues from the past. This is where before I would go to my spouse and confront my spouse on something, I'd sit down with the godly counselor and say, this hurt keeps coming up. Is there something here?
00:27:54
Speaker
Is this something I should legitimately address with my spouse or do I need to see the log in my own eye here before I go and deal with specs in somebody else's eye?
00:28:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's very helpful advice and very clarifying, which is what I think most of us really need is ongoing kind of clarification. I was thinking, I think you'll be happy to hear that we do this because of some advice that you gave just a few moments ago. My wife and I, though it's been inconsistent, like for everybody, we have really benefited from having some regular check-in times. You know, like if we can pull it off,
00:28:34
Speaker
either financially or with time, maybe a weekly date, even if it's not involved, you know, super involved activity or expensive. But we kind of go over the calendar and check in on what's happening in the family. The kids are going a thousand different directions all the time.
00:28:50
Speaker
And we have also at the start of each year, we just did it a couple of weeks ago, have a time to sit down and kind of review the year. Now, one of the things that that has helped us do, which is just what you were mentioning earlier, is give a little time to evaluate where we are, where we are as a family, where we are as a couple. And that's been really helpful. But in that, what I wanted to ask you is, in that kind of evaluation,
00:29:19
Speaker
Are there some key, maybe like habits or practices that show up in the kinds of marriages that are healthy and strong that we can be looking for when we have that check-in meeting and to monitor what would be maybe those habits or practices that we want to look for to encourage each other that we're on the right track or to encourage each other that we need to shift a little bit and move in a different direction together?
00:29:49
Speaker
I think in terms of the diagnostics, sitting down and saying, how are we doing? You know, I'm thinking before, sometimes before we go on vacation, we take the car in and say, look this over and tell me if you see anything. Do that 80 point check that cost me $9.95. Just see if all the fluid levels are good. So I think to just have a regular deck clearing time where we say, is there anything, have I said anything to you this past week that was troubling to you or that was hurtful to you?
00:30:18
Speaker
Have I done anything? Have I failed to do anything? I think of the prayer of confession in the Anglican Prayer Book, Lord, I have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed by what I have done and left undone. So I think to go to our spouse and say, have I sinned against you in word or deed? Are there things I've done or left undone?
00:30:41
Speaker
Can we be honest with one another about those things? And can we do it in a non-threatening way where we don't get defensive, but where we are humbly there to hear and to recognize we're both sinners and that we give grace to one another, just keeping the decks clear. But as a bigger issue, and as I've looked at marriage over the years, there are four patterns that I see in marriages that
00:31:07
Speaker
the marriages that go the distance with joy, these things tend to be present in those marriages. First of all, there tends to be extravagant love expressed for the other person. I don't mean extravagant on an expense level. I'm just talking about the kind of expression of love where there's intentionality, there's purposefulness, where we are seeking to love one another well
00:31:33
Speaker
You can look at 1 Corinthians 13. Are we being patient and kind and all of those things?
00:31:39
Speaker
Are there proactive things I'm doing to try to communicate regularly, my love for my spouse, in marriages where they're thriving, that commitment to proactive expressions of love, that's present. Second thing is there is generous forgiveness. We've talked about how to deal with conflict, overlooking and forgiving quickly and easily.
00:32:06
Speaker
There is generous forgiveness. We don't hang on to a fault. Love does not keep a record of wrongs. We are quick to forgive, quick to listen, slow to speak, slow to anger. Those things are present. The third thing is that there is enthusiastic encouragement for one another. We cheer one another on.
00:32:30
Speaker
My friend Robin McKelvey, who's a pastor's wife, said when she was in high school, she was a cheerleader for their high school football team. And she said, they didn't win any games all season. But we were there every game in the fourth quarter when they're down by four touchdowns saying, you can do it. You can do it. She said, when I got married, I traded in my cheerleading uniform.
00:32:52
Speaker
for a wedding dress but she said i became a cheerleader and i'm there to cheer my husband on even in the midst of hardship and failure and i believe in you and you can do this and i'm with you and i'm cheering you on i know things look hard but i want you do your best i believe in you.
00:33:11
Speaker
When we're saying those things to one another, living that truth out with one another, that's the oil that helps marriage thrive. And then the last thing is shared spiritual priorities. So as husband and wife, when we're on the same page in terms of how we're living out our personal walk with the Lord, but also how we serve and minister together,
00:33:33
Speaker
So my wife and I have very different gifts and abilities, and there are things that I do quickly and easily and naturally that she wants no part of.
00:33:42
Speaker
I like being on podcasts and speaking extemporaneously. She just wants to hold up signs. She's not a public speaker, but there are things she does quickly and easily, both administratively and in how she loves people behind the scenes, her acts of charity and grace that are just not my strength. Well, together we look and say, okay, we're on a mission together in terms of advancing the kingdom of God.
00:34:12
Speaker
How can we come together, use our gifts together so that together we're seeing the kingdom advanced? Those shared spiritual commitments and practices as husband and wife, when that's present in a marriage, you put those four things together. Extravagant love, generous forgiveness, enthusiastic encouragement, and then a shared commitment to spiritual reality, your marriage is going to be in pretty good shape.
Addressing Complex Issues
00:34:39
Speaker
In today's episode, we've been talking to Bob Lapine about building a stronger marriage and the day-to-day challenges that arise in every relationship. But what if your problems are bigger than a miscommunication about one of the kids or the ongoing conversations over the budget? New Growth Press has a variety of resources to help with the more complicated problems your marriage may be facing.
00:35:02
Speaker
Redeem your marriage by Curtis Solomon and reclaim your marriage by his wife, Jenny. Offer hope and help for marriages hurt by pornography. Robert Jones, my spouse was unfaithful, gives readers a way forward following a betrayal. And Table for Two by Dave and Krista Dunham shares a unique perspective on supporting a spouse who is dealing with an eating disorder. Learn more about helpful books for couples at NewGrowthPress.com.
00:35:34
Speaker
Yeah, as you were describing that and talking about those four patterns, one thing that was standing out to me is in this mission of togetherness, there is an opportunity to learn about ourselves and it has an impact upon even our individual relationship with God.
00:35:56
Speaker
And of course with our spouse. And so I want to ask you if you could think of something in your own personal life that perhaps your married life experience has taught you about yourself and has helped you see clearly and maybe it's an area that you've been growing in as an individual Christian, you know?
00:36:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think one of the things, and I think Marianna and I would both go here in answering that question. It is easy for us to think that whatever we're thinking at any moment about anything, we're thinking rightly.
00:36:36
Speaker
And I remember we were driving home from church one day and oftentimes we go to church in separate cars. I have to get there earlier than she does because I've got stuff going on. But this day we were together in the same car and we pulled up to an intersection and she said, aren't you going to turn right here?
00:36:53
Speaker
I said, no, no, I'm going to go straight. And she said, there are fewer stoplights if you turn right. And I said, it's a mile longer if I turn right. And she goes, yeah, but you can keep going. And both of us were thinking, I know the right way to go home. And yet we weren't thinking the same. We have looked at one another.
00:37:18
Speaker
over our marriage, and there are two things that we've said to one another that have been helpful. One is that this is not right or wrong, it's just different. You want Rocky Road, and I want peaches and cream. It's not right or wrong, it's just different. And different by God's design can be good.
00:37:43
Speaker
So embracing that differentness and not presuming that just because I would turn right or you would go straight here that I'm right and you're wrong, but go, no, we just have a different perspective on this. And by God's grace, we can learn from the differences and grow in our own lives. That's one thing. The second thing I'd say, and this is something I learned speaking for years at the Family Life Weekend to remember marriage getaways that they host.
Spiritual Battles in Marriage
00:38:10
Speaker
And one of the key principles that they teach there is that marriage is taking place in the middle of a spiritual battle. And the Bible tells us that when we're in conflict, we are not wrestling against flesh and blood. There is an enemy who wants to destroy our marriage. And the enemy wants us to think that the person who wants to destroy our marriage is not him, but our spouse. So in conflict, we have many times looked at one another and said,
00:38:40
Speaker
I'm not the enemy. You're not the enemy. There is an enemy. Let's, let's fight him rather than each other. And in the midst of the emotion and the hurt and all of that, you can't just flip a switch on that, but it's good for me to say, my spouse is not my enemy. My, and say it out loud. You are not my enemy.
00:39:03
Speaker
Uh, there is an enemy. He wants it. So, so do I want to be on his side of the table trying to destroy the marriage or do I want to be fighting against him trying to bring oneness in the marriage? If we both want to be fighting against the enemy who wants to divide us, that puts us as intimate allies on the same side of the table saying, okay, we're not seeing this the same way, but we know who we're really fighting against. And it's not you or me, it's the devil.
00:39:31
Speaker
Well, Bob, everything you're saying here about marriage is really resonating with me, my experience. And I know that anyone who listens to this conversation we're having is going to find it really helpful. And so it's just wonderful to hear you speak directly into marriages that need to be strengthened. And I'm glad that's happening today.
00:39:52
Speaker
With the last, maybe, bit of time that we have, I actually want to ask you a question, pastor to pastor, or counselor to counselor. And it's a question that kind of harkens back maybe 10, 15 minutes ago.
00:40:09
Speaker
when you were describing having challenges in your marriage, and then I think you said you were going to speak at a conference, and it was creating this conflict for you, right, of being useful there. And what I want to ask you is, for those who are church leaders, counselors, pastors, I think we feel this a lot in the area of helping marriages, because we see issues in our own marriages, and it makes me question whether I'm fit
00:40:37
Speaker
to help somebody else, you know? Like, how can I give this advice to somebody else when I'm struggling? And I think that happens a lot. And I would love to hear what you say to someone like me who feels that way.
00:40:51
Speaker
Well, I would say if we're looking to our own example as the source of what's right and true, then we're looking in the wrong direction.
Humility in Counseling
00:41:05
Speaker
Here's why I find great hope in all of this. The Apostle Paul in Romans 7, he's talking about his own sanctification and he says, there are things I hate that I keep doing.
00:41:20
Speaker
This is the Apostle Paul, who's been out planting churches, teaching the scriptures, discipling people, leading people to faith, pointing them to scriptures. And in Romans 7, he says, you know what? I'm still doing battle with sin patterns in my own life.
00:41:38
Speaker
I don't get this right. And it's why anytime, whether I'm preaching or I'm counseling, I just remember I'm at the same place at the foot of the cross as everybody I'm talking to. I try to make sure they understand that I know that, that I'm not coming to them as the one who has it figured out. I'm coming to them as a fellow stumbler.
00:42:00
Speaker
And i'm just pointing out to them things that i've learned along the way that maybe they don't have to stumble to learn but they can learn from wisdom and then they can know when they stumble.
00:42:11
Speaker
I'm not going to condemn them. I'm going to drop the stones from my own hand because I'm just like them who among us is without sin. So I think having that perspective and going, I am a flawed human being, an instrument in the hand. I have a friend who, and you may have heard this, it wasn't original with him, but he was the first one that said it and it stuck with me. He said, you know, God can draw straight lines with crooked sticks.
00:42:41
Speaker
and I'm a crooked stick. And I just make sure everybody knows that. And when I say, do it this way or don't do it that way, I'm just saying, I've been where you are. I've made these mistakes. Let's both run to the savior. The folks at our church know, they've heard me say this over and over again, that we have to, as believers, re-repent and re-believe the gospel every day.
00:43:09
Speaker
not to get resaved, but because I have to remember that it's true that I'm a sinner, that he who began a good work in me is gonna be faithful to complete it. So I turn from my sin regularly, and I re-believe the gospel, that there is forgiveness, there's transformation happening, there's hope for the future, and I just let folks know I'm on the journey with you.
00:43:33
Speaker
Wow, that transparent, honest, humble view is the gospel view. That's the gospel way. And I appreciate hearing that from you again, because I need to hear it again and again and again.
00:43:48
Speaker
And Bob, I really do appreciate the time that we've spent talking today about this important topic and about our own, you know, our own lives, our own struggles and how Christ is helping us through the good news. And so I'm grateful for the time that we've spent today. And I appreciate the time that you've spent with me. I've enjoyed it, Rush. Thank you.
00:44:11
Speaker
I've enjoyed this important conversation today with Bob Lapine, and I hope that you have too. You know, you can help us to reach more listeners. So subscribe, share, like, and also rate the podcast wherever you listen to it. Our next episode releases in one week, and I will look forward to seeing you there. This is Straight to the Heart.