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Helping Children Love the Bible with Sally Michael
382 Plays11 months ago
In this episode of Straight to the Heart, our host Rush Witt, sits down with Sally Michael, co-founder of Truth78. They discuss how to help children know, love, and memorize God’s Word, and how her new Bible Verses to Remember series for children assists parents, teachers, and church leaders in this important ministry.
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Give God Your Worries
Good Gifts Come from God
Our Great God
The Treasure: Ancient Story Ever New of Jesus and His Church
Learn more about the podcast here.
Timestamps:
1:28 - Intro
2:19 - The Biggest Joy of Sally's Current Ministry Role
2:58 - Sally's New Children's Series, Bible Verses to Remember
5:27 - What are the best practices and goals of Scripture memorization?8:27 - How Memorizing Bible Passages Rescued Sally from Trouble
13:25 - What has been you path into developing so many resources for children?
21:11 - How can we help children across a broad age range love memorizing Scripture?
32:18 - Finding Moments to Emphasize Biblical Virtues in A Busy Family 36:35 - In what ways has John Piper influenced your time at Bethlehem Baptist Church?
39:51 - Farewell
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Straight to the Heart' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
But what kept me through a really difficult time of suffering were the verses I have memorized because they were always there. My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my life and my portion forever.
00:00:15
Speaker
I'm Rush Witt and you're listening to Straight to the Heart, a podcast from New Growth Press. Each episode includes thought-provoking conversations with leading Christian writers and thinkers. We hear who they are, what they believe, how they approach their work in ministry, and the moments in people who have changed their lives. In Straight to the Heart, we go beyond the books to connect with the remarkable people behind them.
00:00:40
Speaker
We're well into our second season, so thank you for listening to and sharing and subscribing to Straight to the Heart.
Interview with Sally Michael - God-Centered Resources for Children
00:00:48
Speaker
Today, I sat down with Sally Michael, who is co-founder of Truth 78 and has authored curricula and books marked by a passion for developing God-centered resources for the spiritual development of children.
00:01:01
Speaker
And you can learn more about Truth 78 by visiting truth78.org. For 16 years, Sally served as Minister for Children at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota, under the leadership of John Piper and of her husband, David. If you want to help children memorize, know, and love God's Word, this episode with Sally Michael is especially for you. And this is Straight to the Heart.
00:01:29
Speaker
Sally, it would be great for you to start and just tell me a little bit about your family. My family married to David Michael since 1976, which shows us our age. We have two daughters, Amy, who's married to Gary. He's a dean actually at Colorado Christian University with our three grandchildren, our oldest of which is in her second year of college.
00:01:54
Speaker
And then our second daughter is Chris Christie or Christina, and she's actually living with us. She's a nurse midwife, but she got sick about five years ago and is unable to work and has multiple medical issues. So have the joy of having her with us here. That's great. So what would you say is the biggest joy or blessing in this season of life for you?
00:02:19
Speaker
Well, I think the biggest joy is grandchildren. I mean, there's nothing to compare them. Unfortunately, mine are far away in Colorado and I'm in Indiana, so that's a big joy. I think a big joy is just how many years of marriage and realizing every year that my husband is the most wonderful man in the world and my children are walking with the Lord and what greater joy we have than to know that our children are walking in the truth.
00:02:46
Speaker
That's really precious. And I would love for you to share a little bit about your new Bible verses to remember series and maybe some of the inspiration behind it. Yeah, well, I'm so excited about these books. The new Bible stories Bible verses to remember books are three books. They're for preschoolers and they're each based on a verse. So give God your worries is 1 Peter 5.7 cast all your anxieties on him because he cares for you.
00:03:15
Speaker
Um, your good gifts come from God is James one 17, every good and every perfect gift comes from above. And our great God is Psalm 95 three for the Lord is a great God and a great King above all gods. I'll tell you what the inspiration was when, when Amy was five and Christie was two and a half. Um, I was decided, you know, it's time to start teaching her memorized scripture.
00:03:42
Speaker
And so I started with 76 little verses, basic verses for Amy and we would, we would go over them and she would learn them. And one day as Amy and I were doing our Bible verses together, I heard Chrissy was sitting in a high chair at two and a half saying, um, in the beginning, God created heaven done to earth. And I said, Chrissy, that's a Bible verse. Do you know anymore? And she listed 18 verses that she had learned only because she overheard us.
00:04:12
Speaker
And I thought, why did I wait till Amy was five? I should have started at two and a half. And so that started just memory verse program. We went from there to the fighter verses, which are 550 passages. So that's how these books came into existence is I wanted not only for children to memorize the verses, but to understand them. So the verses, the books have child friendly language. They use common experiences, which are linked to biblical truth.
00:04:39
Speaker
And they encourage children and parents to memorize the verses, to talk about spiritual things. They're very interactive. So I ask questions of the children in the text. Colorful, beautiful artwork that really complement the text. And then at the end, there are three pages from parents that one, inspire them to take the faith, nurture their children seriously.
00:05:04
Speaker
show them how to use the book and teach them how to help little children memorize scripture. And then a little application part where they can have just some activities to help reinforce the verse.
The Importance of Memorizing Scripture
00:05:16
Speaker
Sallie, what has been your personal experience or practice of scripture memorization and what has been particularly maybe challenging for you?
00:05:27
Speaker
Well, the most challenging part is the discipline of doing it, I think. And really, if you just keep repeating that verse, saying it over, thinking about it, praying the verse, using it to encourage other people, it gets cemented in your mind just like it does with children. Children learn through repetition. We just have to repeat it more times than they do. But I have found
00:05:50
Speaker
Scripture memory is so important because you have a verse right there all the time. When your mind is in neutral, there's a verse there. When you're in a situation, a verse will come to your mind. It informs your decisions. It molds your heart. It strengthens your resolve. It comforts your soul. And I think it gives an anchor for your faith.
00:06:12
Speaker
Because there's just a verse there that when you're in a situation, that verse comes to mind. The Holy Spirit is so faithful to use what we have memorized to strengthen us and to encourage others.
00:06:23
Speaker
Sally, this reminds me that in my experience of scripture memorization, one of the challenges at times has been when I wasn't really sure what my goals in memorizing scripture were. It seemed that if I didn't understand maybe why I was doing it, I just couldn't get a lot of traction. And so, you know, I wonder if that's something you've experienced or what you would say to someone like me who's
00:06:49
Speaker
Not real sure what the goals of Scripture memory are and maybe that would help get that whole process moving for that person. Well, I think one thing is to remember that we are not just memorizing verses to put information into our brains. We are memorizing Scripture because the Holy Spirit works through His Word
00:07:14
Speaker
And the way that you can meditate on the word and have it change your heart and your life is to have it memorized because it's constantly working in your heart. So I think that's one reason. I think another goal is so you can encourage others. So you have a word of comfort, a word of encouragement, a word of admonishment if you need to, that a word of prayer for them. Praying scripture is so much so different than the anemic prayers we usually pray.
00:07:42
Speaker
So I think just to give us language for prayer, language for praising God, I think that's another goal of scripture memory. But I think to have ready answers when something is thrown at us, a verse comes to mind and it's the power of the Word of God then, not just your own words that is there witnessing to that person.
00:08:03
Speaker
Wow, that's really amazing and very true. Let me ask you this. Can you think of some times in your life when scripture memorization came to your rescue because of some passage of scripture that you had memorized but was uniquely needed in your life? Can you think of some experiences like that for you that you could share?
00:08:27
Speaker
Okay. Probably the most poignant example is I had a year of intense, intense insomnia. I mean, I would go four nights and sleep two hours. And at that point you're trying to keep your mental edge and trying to read the Bible. I had to put my finger underneath the words to try to be able to concentrate long enough. But what kept me through a really difficult time of suffering were the verses I have memorized because they were always there.
00:08:54
Speaker
my flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my life and my portion forever. Weaving in tears for the night, but joy comes in the morning. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him from them all." I mean, those verses were what kept me in that hard time. I remember, this is from my daughter's life, we had a situation in our church where a leader of our church fell into significant sin.
00:09:25
Speaker
and just denied and denied and denied. And my daughter said, she was probably, I want to say 10 years old, maybe she was a little older, but she said, I know what it is, a man who remains stiff neck after many reviews will suddenly be cast headlong without remedy. And she just, boom. And it just made her realize, dude, admit your sin right away, because if not,
00:09:53
Speaker
you're putting yourself in danger. I can give you time after time talking to people. I was just talking to somebody yesterday who, a physical therapist, and just casual conversation, able to weave in Bible verses with her, which she just responded to positively because it wasn't my word, it was God's word.
00:10:23
Speaker
There, boy, in how many years? It's probably a million situations I could think of, but I think sometimes when things are hard or you're discouraged, a Bible verse, the Lord is our shield and our fortress are ever present out in time of trouble, those kind of verses just strengthen you to say, keep on
Overview of 'Bible Verses to Remember' Series
00:10:45
Speaker
keeping on. The Lord knows.
00:10:49
Speaker
I want to tell you more about Sally Michaels' Bible Verses to Remember series set. It includes three books. The first is Give God Your Worries. The second, Good Gifts Come from God. And the third, Our Great God. Let me tell you a little bit about each one. Part of the Bible Verses to Remember series
00:11:09
Speaker
Give God Your Worries helps preschoolers to memorize scripture and understand how it applies to their little lives today. God takes care of birds and animals, the sun and rain. He takes care of everything in his world and he takes care of us too. But we can sometimes be anxious or nervous.
00:11:30
Speaker
Jesus wants us to remember He cares for us, and He can cast or throw our worries on Him. And that's what Give God Your Worries is all about. The second book is Good Gifts Come from God. You know, every day God gives us good gifts to enjoy, family and friends, sunshine, hugs, smiles and kind words.
00:11:51
Speaker
The greatest gift from God is sending His Son, Jesus, to die on the cross for our sins. And we should always thank God for His good and perfect gifts. So this part of the Bible Verses to Remember series, Good Gifts Come from God, helps preschoolers develop that heart of gratitude for these many good gifts from Him.
00:12:11
Speaker
And third is the book, Our Great God. There are so many things to sing about, things that make us happy or excited, even things that make us sad, but the greatest reason to sing is when we think about God. God is a great God, and everything that we know and love about God should make us want to sing about Him.
00:12:31
Speaker
And so this final part of the Bible Verses to Remember series, Our Great God, helps preschoolers to sing to him by memorizing his word and hiding it in their hearts. You can learn more about the Bible Verses to Remember series set when you visit NewGrowthPress.com.
00:12:53
Speaker
Sally, it's not lost on me the incredible influence and impact that you have had on the church through these resources for so many years. And it just makes me wonder sort of what was the story of your
00:13:08
Speaker
Progress in writing and becoming useful in this way really how did you get moving with writing and providing resources and then just continuing for such a long time and so many fruitful and faithful ways.
Sally's Journey in Writing Curriculum
00:13:24
Speaker
Well, the story started, actually, believe it or not, when I was in college and I was teaching a Bible club for kids in Brooklyn, New York, and these were all unchurched kids, and I was looking at the material that I was given to teach, and I just said, this isn't about the Bible. This is so weak. I'm not giving these kids anything, and I would just, I would be so frustrated. And then when my daughter Amy got in kindergarten, I was, or preschool, I was teaching preschool, Sunday school, and I just looked at the material and I said,
00:13:54
Speaker
I can't teach this. This is about man. It's not about God. And so the CEO director said, well, teach whatever you want to teach. Well, I'm thinking I'm on a rotation of three teachers. So every third week we have a lesson that I make up.
00:14:06
Speaker
But the real crux came, and so I determined I was going to teach my daughters differently. I mean, that was the bottom line. So I just started teaching at home. I did the foundation verses. We put together the fighter verses. We went through different Bible story books, but I changed every single one of them when I was going through them. And so then David and I, David was working at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis and
00:14:31
Speaker
He was asked to do children's ministry and he said, I'm only going to do it if my wife can come on with me. So he and I were working together in children's ministry. He was family discipleship. And he said, now you've got to choose Sunday school material. I just, I went through material. I said, I can't, you can't teach any of this. So I go back and get some more and he'd say,
00:14:51
Speaker
Finally, he said, well, you're just going to have to write something. I said, no, I'm going to get another stack. So I bring home another stack and look through it. I said, none of this stuff. We can't teach this. It's not really teaching about God. And so he said, well, you're going to have to write it. I said, no, I'll get another stack. So finally, he said the thing that you can't deny when he said, you're going to have to write it. And I said, I don't know how to write Bible story material. I mean, I said this story every time. I don't know how to do this. And so finally, the clincher came and he says, well, God knows. Just ask him.
00:15:22
Speaker
It really came because we were responsible for the Christian education program in our church and also encouraging the parents to influence the faith of their children. And we just could not give them something that was not God-centered, God-exalting, taught strong doctrine, used the word, not just as quarterly in teaching. And so
00:15:46
Speaker
David said, start writing, and so I started writing, and I did. He said, ask God, and I did every sentence. God, what do you want to say? What example do you want? What verse should I use? I mean, it was just constant, pray, write, pray, write, pray, write.
00:16:00
Speaker
Wow. You know, it really sounds like such a challenge to be thrust into something like this, which you hadn't done before. And so I wonder, how did you find your way in those initial days and continue to develop your ability to write and to continue? Well, I was a Christian education major in college, though I don't think that's where I got it. I really think where I got it was
00:16:30
Speaker
sitting on my couch and praying and saying, Lord, how do I expose my children to who you are? How do I show them that you're a great God? How do I teach them in a way that it will affect their heart? And I think it was years of being a mother, I homeschooled my children, years that actually prepared me, years of being in the Word and loving the Word, years of memorizing Scripture and loving the memorized Scripture that put the content in me
00:16:59
Speaker
And then it was my friend Jill Nelson, I used to take walks and talk about how do you use the Bible to children? And we'd give each other ideas. And she was really concerned about the faith nature of her children. And so when I had to write curriculum, I said to her, if I'm doing this, you're doing it with me. And so she and I just started. And it really was talking back and forth, but mostly just praying. And then and this is the coolest thing.
00:17:27
Speaker
I'd say, Lord, what do you want us to write this year and where do you want us to go? And then we'd look back and we'd say, in retrospect, it's a great scope and sequence. I mean, and we figured how it all went together, but it wasn't because we were so smart. It was in retrospect, we said, this really works because we prayed and God answered.
00:17:48
Speaker
Well, it's really amazing the way that you were able to work together and kind of rally around this common interest and need. And it is a beautiful picture of the church at work. You know, I wonder, some people that hear our conversation might think,
00:18:05
Speaker
or question whether really young kids are able to memorize scripture in this way. Your Bible Verses to Remember series is obviously aimed at preschool children, and so I wonder if some people might just wonder how effectively can preschool kids memorize scripture. I wonder what you would say to maybe a parent or someone who is asking that question.
Can Young Children Memorize Scripture?
00:18:30
Speaker
Well, it's never too early to start because children are capable of much more than we think. I love the quote from instructing a child's heart from Ted and Margie Tripp where they said, we give our children big truths to grow into rather than light explanations to grow out of.
00:18:50
Speaker
And I think that's really true. You saw the word and then the Holy Spirit is faithful to bring understanding. I'll give you an example. My daughter, Christie, was three years old in preschool, learning God made everything. He made the birds, he made the trees, he made everything. And I pulled out of the driveway and Christie looked at the house across the street and she said, God made the house, because that's what she's learning in Sunday school. And Amy, being five, six actually, and a little wiser said, no, he didn't. A man made that house.
00:19:20
Speaker
And they went back and forth a little bit. And then I said, you know, you're both right. A man did take a hammer and some nails and a board, and he made that house. But who gave the man the tree that gave him the wood? And who gave the man the mind to make a house? And who gave the man an arm to hold a strong hammer? And Christie said, every good and perfect gift comes from above.
00:19:46
Speaker
A verse she had memorized, the Holy Spirit brought a situation, applied it in her heart, and then simultaneously they both started saying, God is so good. God is so good. He's so good to me.
00:19:59
Speaker
That's the Holy Spirit. Our job is just to put the word there. Yes, we try to explain the words. We try to explain what the verse means. We put it in context of real life. But bottom line, the Holy Spirit gives understanding beyond their years, and they grow into the truth. Listen, we don't understand. We don't understand all that the Bible has. And my goodness, there are verses that all of a sudden they click in our mind, we've known them for years, and then Holy Spirit brings something
00:20:27
Speaker
Oh, this is what that verse really means. You know, my kids cover a span, kind of a large span from 19 years old, all the way down to eight. And we've noticed over the years that as our kids get older, they kind of run into different challenges or struggles with scripture memory, whether it's challenge of interest, maybe they're not as interested as they were in some of the scripture memory that we did with them when they were young and
00:20:54
Speaker
So I'm curious what you have noticed as being different as kids age, what the challenges to keep scripture memorization going might be, and what kind of wisdom you have for parents or church leaders or others who are kind of feeling that. Okay. One of the things I think, Russ, that we did is we started when our kids were really little.
00:21:16
Speaker
And it became the rhythm of life. So you get up in the morning, you have breakfast, you brush your teeth, you have your Bible time, you memorize your verses. I mean, it's just, this is something you just do. And then if we're using it all the time and it's the heart of life, we didn't get any resistance from our children. Here's an example from my grandchildren.
00:21:38
Speaker
I have a granddaughter who's 15. Last year when she was 14, she was in a play. She's homeschooled, but she goes to a charter school one day a week. And she was in this musical play and she said, you know, I'm really nervous about being on stage with all those people. And I said, you know, I understand that Katie. And I said, you know what? You can go out there and trust in your abilities and that's all you have to trust in. Or you can go out there and trust in the God of the universe.
00:22:06
Speaker
And so I gave her a verse. I gave her Psalm 125, one and two. Those who trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion, which cannot be shaken, but endures forever as the mountains surround Jerusalem. So the Lord surrounds his people both now and forevermore. I said, you go out there with that Bible verse. And I said, and you remember that God is surrounding you and you will be strong like Mount Zion. And I said, will you do everything right? It doesn't matter because what you know is that you will not be shaken no matter how you do your part.
00:22:36
Speaker
You will not be shaken because God is surrounding you. And she got so excited. She goes, oh, that's so exciting. I'm going to tell all the other kids in the cast. I'm going to bring my Bible. I'm going to mark that verse. I mean, she just got so excited because it gave her a real, I think, spiritual anchor for her fear, something to fight her fear. And she was so excited. And she called me afterwards and oh, grandma, it was so great. I brought the verse to the kids. I mean, she was 14.
00:23:05
Speaker
You don't outgrow it when you see God at work. And it's not just something that's been poured into you, but it's something that you have participated in all of your life and is life-giving to you.
00:23:21
Speaker
Would you like to know about a new book from Marty Machowski? I know you would. This book is called The Treasure, ancient story ever new of Jesus and his church. In The Treasure, bestselling author Marty Machowski takes young readers on an exciting biblical voyage to discover the treasure of God's love revealed in Luke's letters to Theophilus, Luke and Acts.
00:23:45
Speaker
In the tradition of his well-loved bestseller Theology and Wonderful, Michowski weaves a study of the Bible with a fictional story. The treasure follows an adventure to discover a sea captain's personal journal, which offers clues to a hidden treasure. The riddle of the treasure can only be solved by studying two ancient scrolls, the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts.
00:24:09
Speaker
with vivid full color illustrations by Flavia Sorrentino and writing for elementary age kids. The treasure encourages families to study the Bible together and develop regular family devotions. The treasure will help children grow in their knowledge and love of God. And you can learn more by visiting NewGrowthPress.com. It really is a great motivation
00:24:35
Speaker
for us in recognizing the way that scripture memorization can help us with the challenges that we face in daily life, the anxieties and the worries and to recognize that even even kids have those kinds of struggles and troubles.
Addressing Children's Anxieties with Scripture
00:24:52
Speaker
And I think parents are regularly looking for ways trying to understand how they can help their kids.
00:24:58
Speaker
biblically. And so I just wonder what you would say to those parents and how you would try to help them as they want to address those issues that they see going on in the lives of their young children.
00:25:12
Speaker
I think it's very normal for children to be anxious. A very common anxiety for little children is separation anxiety. You know, mom drops you off in Sunday school and you're a little nervous or whatever. So I think separation anxiety is normal. I think there's some fears that are normal, fear of being alone, fear of heights, fear of dogs sometimes. I think there's all kinds of fears that children have. And I think the worst thing a parent can do is deny them.
00:25:40
Speaker
or say you shouldn't have them. Because then the child just feels guilty. I think you acknowledge him and say, you know what? The Bible says, when I am afraid, I will trust in you. God knows there are times that we're going to be afraid. He says, when you're afraid, not if you ever get afraid, or you shouldn't be afraid. He says, when I am afraid, I will trust in you. So you acknowledge that the fear is real. And then you acknowledge that there is help for it. When I am afraid, I will trust in you.
00:26:10
Speaker
Okay, so you have a place to go with those fears. You give them Bible verses. I actually wrote a book called When I Am Afraid. It's different Bible verses for children when they face fears.
00:26:24
Speaker
You give them something to hang on to. You explain to them that I can't always be with you, but I know someone who will always be with you. God is always with you. Even though you can't see Him, He can see you. And you know, He never sleeps. He never, ever takes a nap. So He's always watching you. I love 7 Chronicles 16, 9, 8. The eyes of the Lord range throughout the earth.
00:26:47
Speaker
to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him. There's a zillion verses we can give our children and I think you give them that anchor and then you let them walk through their fear. I think the tendency sometimes is for parents just to protect their children and so they never learn but you let them walk through reasonable fears for their age.
00:27:10
Speaker
I love it. And I remember hearing David Palleson once say that something to the effect of, you have many good reasons to be worried and afraid, but you have many more and better reasons not to. And that just is a reminder of all of the good gifts God has given us. The gift of memorizing Scripture is one that's uniquely positioned to help us to remember those many and better reasons.
00:27:38
Speaker
I think the greatest theological truth that we taught our children, I think that carried us through everything, is the truth that God is sovereign. He is sovereign over every circumstance.
00:27:53
Speaker
There is nothing that is outside of His control. And He has made a promise, which is Romans 8.28, that all things work for good. Now, that's qualified by Romans 8.29. Good is what conforms to the image of His Son, not what feels good. But understanding that God is sovereign and nothing is out of His control has carried them. So my daughter, working as an immersed midwife, being independent, very capable young woman,
00:28:21
Speaker
diagnosed with gastroparesis, which came from Ehlers-Danlos, autonomic issues. She is nauseous every single day. She has a migraine every day. She has aches like she has the flu every single day. She cannot eat. She's on a feeding tube or a central line. I mean, multiple issues. It's every day is hard. But this is what she said, Mom, if this is the life that God has ordained for me, it is OK. He will get me through it.
00:28:51
Speaker
And where does that come from? That comes from being three years old and knowing that God is sovereign. He takes care of his children. Nothing is out of his control. He knows about everything.
00:29:02
Speaker
So one of the books we have been discussing is Give God Your Worries, and then another is Good Gifts Come From God. And even just as I think about that title, of course, it reminds me of the importance of cultivating hearts of gratitude and in ourselves, of course, but also among our kids. And so, you know, I wonder as a mom, what are some of the ways that you have sought to cultivate that kind of gratitude to God for his good gifts in your family?
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's very common nowadays for children to feel entitled. And it's because we give them so much and they expect so much. We don't teach common graces like thank you, being grateful for things. Sometimes they get a gift and they say, oh, I don't really, this is not really what I wanted. That's not the way you respond when you're given something. So you teach your children for one thing, at least the outward appearance of gratitude.
00:30:01
Speaker
There's a Puritan writer that said, even if you cannot thank God as you, even if you cannot thank Him, thank Him as you should. If you can't thank Him in the heart, thank Him because He said that gratefulness, gratitude is, I wish I could have the quote in front of me because it's a Puritan, I actually find it funny.
00:30:23
Speaker
But basically, gratitude begets with gratitude. So the more you are grateful, the more your children will become grateful. The more you express gratitude, the more your heart will be molded that way.
00:30:39
Speaker
I think the first thing that parents have to do is look at their own hearts and say, am I a grateful person? Because if we are constantly being grateful and acknowledging the good things that God does for us, the blessings that we have, if we are grateful, it is going to rub off on our children. If we're constantly complaining, that's also going to influence our children.
00:30:59
Speaker
So I think the first thing is to look at our own hearts. And then the second thing is to practice. When you practice, it doesn't make perfect, but it does make better often. And so just practice being grateful. Practice expressing gratitude. Keep leading your children. Oh, wasn't that nice that so-and-so did something? Let's thank her. Let's thank God for her goodness or kindness. And I think that
00:31:26
Speaker
Mostly it's modeling, but it's also speaking about it, teaching some verses like every good and perfect gift comes from above. Praise the Lord with a grateful heart. I just think we are swimming against our time. So we need to be very intentional. And the problem is intentionality is hard. It takes time and it takes work. So it means being very intentional.
00:31:50
Speaker
It really is true that families seem to be getting busier and busier. Mine kind of feels like that. And so, you know, one of the challenges now is finding those moments to recognize or identify and emphasize the biblical virtues that we want to take root in the hearts of our kids. And I wonder what wisdom you have to busy families, moms and dads who are trying to find that time, but really struggling.
00:32:20
Speaker
I'm going to give you an example. My husband was in seminary. I worked in a church with the preschool children, and I was the director of the daycare center. I had set up a field trip to the zoo, which meant bringing in extra teachers, getting buses, getting permission slips. It was a ton of work, and it rained that day.
00:32:41
Speaker
And I'm thinking, I got to call these different people. I've got to cancel things. I've got to redo this again for another day. I'm not real happy, right? And this little three-year-old boy came up to me and he said, teacher, you know what I think? I said, no, what do you think, Ryan? He said, I think God looked down and you saw a little flower that needed some water. He says, I'm just going to send some rain. And that example said to me, I need to learn gratitude.
00:33:11
Speaker
I need to learn to be more grateful and look at things from a different perspective, not the perspective of my comfort, but the perspective of what is God up to? What is God doing? So I think one of the things that we can do in everyday life that doesn't take any time is to begin to develop a God awareness, a God consciousness, a looking into things through a different set of eyes. Because when we do that, it all comes naturally.
00:33:40
Speaker
So when we are tempted to complain, we need to stop and say, what's another way to look at this? And then it just naturally flows out of you. If you're developing a grateful heart, if you're developing a kind heart, if you're developing a thoughtful heart, if you're developing a patient heart, those things are going to come out when we say, Lord, I need you to change me.
00:34:04
Speaker
and give me and he will, if you pray for something, he's going to give you situations where you need to learn and you'll put it into practice. And so we all have choices. And I know like I have a daughter, I won't name which one who has a really hard time being on time for anything. Well, that's on her unless I'm also involved because I'm the kind of person I get there 10 minutes early. Okay.
00:34:31
Speaker
I've been challenged with that lately. And so what I thought is, you know what, I have a choice of how I'm going to respond to this. I can either respond reminding her that she's late or getting upset with her, or I can respond with the kind of patience that God shows me, which is constant. And I can have a kind patient encouraging response for her. And that has taken a lot of practice, but I do think
00:34:59
Speaker
We, children learn so much through our everyday responses. They are constantly learning from us. We are their biggest teachers in the little moments that we don't even, you know, ask your children, what do you remember? What was one of your favorite things? They'll mention something you don't even remember because those little moments mean big things to them. And so I think my advice would be
00:35:22
Speaker
If we are not walking with the Lord consciously every day, we are going to be teaching things we don't want to teach. And if we are walking consciously with the Lord and asking Him to be our guide, He will be faithful. And those everyday moments, you weave into what you're already doing in life. It's just the way you do them.
00:35:44
Speaker
I really appreciate the emphasis on having a God-centered view, a life and world view. Actually, I noticed on the screen John Piper's book, Providence, on your shelf. I actually recently finished that on audiobook. I really don't know that I can think in the current generation
00:36:03
Speaker
of anyone who has had a stronger influence on probably, you know, me and lots of other people in the area of cultivating that God-centered view of all things. And I actually wonder what John Piper's influence has been on you, because I know that you have spent time at Bethlehem Baptist, you know, close proximity and really enjoying the
00:36:28
Speaker
the benefits of being around John Piper's ministry. So I'm just curious what that has been like for you.
Influence of John Piper on Sally's Work
00:36:35
Speaker
I learned my theology from John Piper and Wayne Grudem's systematic theology book. Sitting under his preaching for 32 years,
00:36:46
Speaker
fills your heart with, God is great. God is good. I mean, it does live for his glory. I mean, soaking in the messages of his word gave me a heart that wanted to overflow with teaching other children. And so the 20, I don't know, 26, 27, 20, I don't know how many there
00:37:11
Speaker
curricula that I've written. I don't know how many books I've written. They all come out of sitting under his very God-centered, careful teaching and the Lord's faithfulness. And so the theology in our curriculum is basically what John Piper taught us from the pulpit. I mean, I wrote a curriculum for children on God's providence and I love
00:37:35
Speaker
I wrote a curriculum for children on God's providence and I loved every single minute of it because it had been so ingrained into my heart that it just overflowed. I was so excited to teach it to children. It really is an incredible influence that you're describing and it just is interesting how God has used that influence in so many ways. One of the things that makes me the saddest is that most people don't get that in their church.
00:38:04
Speaker
And certainly most children don't get that teaching. And that's why I have eight feet of bookshelves of curriculum that Jill Nelson and myself have written. And I just pray that more and more churches would take the faith nurture of children seriously and use that material. I'm thinking the amount of work it was to develop it,
00:38:27
Speaker
It needs to be used because those are life-giving truths. Now, you're not going to pick up your quarterly on Saturday night and say, okay, what do I have to teach her? Run in Sunday morning with it. It takes work because guess what? Every single teacher that I know that has taught me about it has said, I am learning more than the children. I am excited for Sundays. This is good for my soul. So yes, it takes work. If you want to teach out of the overflow of your heart, you need to get it in your heart.
00:38:57
Speaker
And you can only do that through meditating on God's Word and praying. And yeah, it's more worth and picking up accordingly and just reading it to children. But I believe the fruit is greater too. Now, Sally, I've really valued our time today and I'm grateful that we've been able to spend it together. And also to just express gratitude for the hundreds of hours that you have spent providing such important resources similar to
00:39:24
Speaker
Bible verses to remember that we have been talking about here today, this series. And one of the things I love about this kind of resource is that it has other tools inside of it that seem to perpetuate the benefit day after day. And so I'm curious if you could say some things about other tools that are in these resources for parents and teachers, church leaders to be using with kids as they help them grow.
00:39:51
Speaker
At the back of the book are some pages from parents and the first one is just kind of an inspirational piece just to help parents take seriously the faith nurture of their children. And then there's actually a section on how to use this book and it teaches about how do you instruct the mind, engage the heart, and influence the will. Because we don't want kids just to be Pharisees that walk around with knowledge that doesn't make any dent in their hearts. We want their hearts to be engaged
00:40:21
Speaker
And then we wanted to work out in their lives. We want to influence their will, what they do. So I always say, you teach children and you ask the questions, what should I think? What should I be and what should I do? And then there's a page on just some tips for helping young children memorize, which is actually very easy to help young children memorize. And then living by the word is a section where you can, you can go a little further in,
00:40:47
Speaker
There's just some practical experiences or activities that you can do to help, you know, put some feet to these verses. Well, thank you so much, Sally, for spending this time today because it really has been encouraging and helpful and useful. And I'm grateful for it. Well, I love talking with you because I feel like we share the same heart and you guys have good questions that I love to answer. So thank you so much for having me on your program.
00:41:17
Speaker
You've been listening to Straight to the Heart. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Like next weeks when I talk with Chris Moles about domestic abuse ministry and as we answer the question, can abusers change? You can look for that episode in one week and I'll look forward to seeing you there.