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Cody, Wyoming Ice Climbing
1.2k Plays4 years ago
Cody Ice Climbing: No Drafting on Pick Holes!
Join Uphill athlete co-founder Steve House for a discussion with UA coach John Frieh and South Fork local and guidebook writer for the area, Aaron Mulkey. In this episode they discuss the ice climbing opportunities around Cody, Wyoming. They cover: the logistics of approaching various routes; how a typical day of ice climbing unfolds; things to consider when approaching routes; being prepared for wind, rock fall, and other inclement weather while on route; the differences between Ouray, Hyalite Canyon, and the South Fork; using v-threads for descending; hit list of Cody classics; Cody as a training ground for alpine climbing and consolidating fitness goals; the importance of aerobic fitness in approaching South Fork routes.
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Transcript
Introduction and Resources
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete Podcast. These programs are just one of several free services we provide to disseminate information about training for mountain sports. If you like what you hear and want more, please check out our website, uphillathlete.com, where you'll find many articles and our extensive video library on all aspects of training for and accomplishing a variety of mountain goals. You'll also find our forum, where you can ask questions of our experts and the community at large.
00:00:30
Speaker
Our email is coach at uphillathlete.com and we'd love to hear from you.
Ice Climbing Experiences in Wyoming
00:00:36
Speaker
Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the uphill athlete podcast. I'm your host today, Steve house. And with me are two fine gentlemen. I'd like to introduce our very own coach and a climber, John free. Hi, John, how are you? Good. How are you doing, Steve?
00:00:55
Speaker
Doing great. And Aaron Mulkey joining us from the South Fork of the Shoshone River in Wyoming. Hey, Aaron. Hey, guys. Happy to be on. Great. Well, thanks for joining us. And the topic of this discussion today is actually your backyard, Aaron. Why don't you set the scene for us and tell us what is up there in the South Fork?
00:01:24
Speaker
You're in Wyoming and it's obviously an ice climbing mecca. And then, John, we can fill in why this place is so important to us as climbers. Yeah, absolutely. Cody basically sits just outside of Yellowstone National Park. And the valley itself sits about 30 miles outside of Cody.
00:01:47
Speaker
It is home to highest concentration of ice in the continental US, I would say. Although, I think JoJo would probably disagree with that, but that's all right. My new guidebook will be coming out. We'll prove him wrong. But anyways, it is home to really some of the bigger ice routes in the continental US and a lot of them. I'd say it's a great testing ground for anybody that's planning to go to the big mountains.
00:02:15
Speaker
or just planning to be, you know, I guess, you know, extremely successful in their own mountain ranges as well. It just kind of has the perfect climate for waterfall ice, but also has low snow. So we don't have the, you know, the big avalanche concerns that Canada does and things like that. So it does seem like a lot more people are starting to come to Cody that used to go to Canada, choose a warmer. You don't have to deal with the significant avalanche potential
00:02:45
Speaker
uh the routes are just as big um you still get that you know a big aerobic day out there um and there's just so many big routes to choose from that uh it's become home for me for the last 20 plus years yeah it's an amazing place the first time i climbed there was i think
00:03:06
Speaker
December 1994, I think. And, you know, it was really eye-opening. I'd never been to, I'd been to the Canadian Rockies, but I'd never seen anything. And I had climbed at that point in highlight, and I'd done some waterfall climbing alps, but
Travel and Accommodations
00:03:25
Speaker
I'd never seen that kind of concentration of climbing. And at that point, a lot of the goalies, a lot of the ice we looked at was still on climb. So it was just real amazing.
00:03:37
Speaker
that can distinctly remember the feeling of driving up there the first time and like looking around with the binoculars and just going, oh my God, this place is amazing. We have hit the jackpot and it is an incredible place. John, when were you there first? I was actually digging through my emails and it's actually 10 years ago, almost to the month that I drug out there because Aaron,
00:04:07
Speaker
which anyone who knows him or follows him on his various social media platforms will know that he loves to rub it in everyone else's face when he climbs ice at the start of every year. It's usually September. And he, I believe it was September 2010 where he had posted some photos of the stuff at Carter Mountain, which is, it's in the South Fork officially, but it's not back where the majority of the climbs are.
00:04:36
Speaker
And, uh, being a aspiring ice fiend at the time, I was like, what is this? And zipped out there and, um, have made many, many trips back, um, uh, for kind of, I think the reasons that Aaron has talked about, like it's, you know, it's, it's hard climbing. It's, it's hard approaches. They're big routes. And, uh, for the aspiring Alpine climber, I can't think of a better training ground, um, definitely in the, in the States.
00:05:06
Speaker
Agreed. Aaron, why don't you fill us in on a little bit of logistics, like how do people get to Cody? Where do they stay? How do you go climbing? How do you go about getting there and climbing there? Give us the basics. So there is a airport here in Cody. There's direct flights every day from Denver.
00:05:28
Speaker
Um, and then, uh, you can also fly into Billings, which is a hundred miles away. It's a little bigger airport. There's definitely more options for flying in and flying out. Uh, basically in the winter, there's two flights in a day and two flights out a day. And those both go to Denver. Um, seven hour drive from Denver.
00:05:47
Speaker
About six, seven hours from Salt Lake City. So, you know, if you want to go to a bigger hub, you could do that. Three hours from Bozeman. So lots of ways to get here. Once you get here, lots of hotels. You know, we are big, big tourist destination in the summertime. So actually about probably half of the hotels are closed in the winter.
00:06:09
Speaker
but plenty of hotel options. You can also stay in the South Fork if you prefer not to do the 30-mile drive back and forth. There is one place up there that you can stay, and it's got some basics up there. It's called the DDX Ranch, Double Diamond X Ranch. But then there's plenty of places in town, from your cheaper hotels, the Big Bear Motel, to the nicer hotels, which would be, you know, even a nicer hotel in town right now. In the winter, it's probably only 100 bucks a night or something like that.
00:06:39
Speaker
But there are lots of options to stay. I think some people also do like an Airbnb. But 10 years ago, I used to probably have climbers in and out of my house all winter long, but my wife has put the kibosh to that. You mean I can't message you, Aaron, being a fan on social media or listening to this podcast and say, hey, Aaron, can I just park my van in your driveway? Yeah, that's not a thing anymore.
00:07:09
Speaker
Back then, um, you know, I didn't have partners. So when, you know, some of like John reached out to me, I was just like, yeah, come to town. Cause I just didn't have people that were as motivated. Um, and really there's very few climbers in town. So my partners were people contacting me and I'd be like, yeah, I want you to stay at my house if I can go climbing with you. Uh, and that was how I had partners. So I mean, there's, I can think of a whole lot of other stories that go along with that, both good and bad. Uh, but.
00:07:38
Speaker
That was really how I was able to climb as much as I was climbing was by connecting with people out of town because there just wasn't anybody here that wanted to go climb that much. Yeah, I spent New Year's Eve, December 31st, 1999 at, I don't know, one of the chain hotels because they were running a special for 1999 a night. Doug Chabot and I split a room.
00:08:08
Speaker
And I remember on New Year's Day, we were up at like four in the morning because we were not because we had partied, but because we'd gone to bed at eight. We were up at four because we needed to be climbing or leaving, you know, starting to walk by five to do a big long day. So yeah, lots of great options there. I'll see if I can dig up. I've got a photo of myself and Alex Lowe brewing espresso at the Big Bear Hotel, probably 1996 or something.
00:08:39
Speaker
So yeah, I can attest that. I mean, one thing with ice climbing, people need to realize is, you know, it's really tough, van life is tough in the winter in the South Fork. I mean, you know, I've been a truck camper fan guy for most of my life. I mean, you need a place to dry out.
00:08:56
Speaker
boots, ropes, gloves, get wet when you go ice climbing. Same thing in the Canadian Rockies or any of these destination ice climbing places. You kind of need central heating to manage your gear and drying everything out in between climbing
Logistical Considerations and Safety
00:09:11
Speaker
days. And you also, because these are physical days, you can't necessarily climb every day for a week in a row. You climb a couple of days and you actually need a day off. You just need to
00:09:21
Speaker
do something else. I recommend that people stay in hotels and eat out at the restaurants and support the local economy for a lot of good reasons. It's good for us ice climbers to keep a good relationship with these communities and let them know why we're coming in there. Yeah, I agree, Steve. I think a lot of people
00:09:40
Speaker
try to do the campground thing, you know, stay in the van, but the South Fork is typically, it's kind of a wetter destination for ice climbing because it is at, you know, 6,800 feet and it really thrives on that freeze thaw that people's ropes are wet, you know, you're crossing the river, whatever it might be. It is a much wetter destination for ice climbing than most places.
00:10:05
Speaker
So if you're driving out to Cody from wherever you are, you fly in and then get a car or whatever you do, walk us through a day of ice climbing in Cody. Like what's the first objective hazard you have to manage? Yeah, the first objective hazard would be driving in and not hitting a deer.
00:10:26
Speaker
that is the gauntlet of the South Fork Valley is not hitting deer. It is a huge wintering area, so it's pretty typical to see a couple hundred deer on your drive in. Yeah, it's an incredible wildlife area, not just for the deer all down low, right along the road, like you said, but I mean, even when you're climbing, I've seen lots of incredible wildlife up there. Yeah, the sheep are incredible. I mean, it's not crazy to think that you might find
00:10:54
Speaker
you know elk shed or or walk up on a big ram that's only 10 feet away from you or whatever. It's definitely the the sheep it's it's it's their playground up there and they kind of know it they they're not too scared of people.
00:11:11
Speaker
Cool. So then you walk us through the day, like when you typically start, how far is it? What do you, you know, give us some logistics background. Yeah. I think for most people, you know, you're going to drive into the valley and you're going to see a whole lot of ice and you're going to try to wonder where do I go from here? And I think that I tell people to kind of start off small, kind of go for that.
00:11:34
Speaker
that known objective that you can see, you kind of have a good idea what the approach is like. For me, I know my way around so well that I don't have to probably get up as early as most people do. But I tell people to pretty much be up there as the sun's coming up. If you're planning on having a big day, you better be up there by the sun's coming up and starting your approach in. When you're typically climbing in the south fork,
00:12:01
Speaker
You're going to probably do anywhere between two and 4,000 feet of elevation gain in a day, depending on where you're going. Now, there are obviously places that you don't have as big of a day, but if you're looking for a full day, you can climb anywhere between six, eight, nine, 10 pitches in a day and hiking in between those pitches. And next thing you know, you've done 3,000, 4,000 feet of elevation gain.
00:12:24
Speaker
And next thing you know, you're at the top of that climb and it's dark. So, you know, being able to move fast and efficiently in that terrain is why it has become really a great training playground for alpinists. What about, I know we mentioned animals on the drive-in and
00:12:45
Speaker
not ending your day there when your radiator is split open. What are some of the other objective hazards you got to maybe think about either the night before or the day of when you're selecting a route? Is avalanche a concern in Cody or any other things people need to be aware of climbing there? Yeah, absolutely.
00:13:07
Speaker
There are avalanche issues that can occur. It's very unlikely that there'll be major avalanche considerations that you have to take a look at. But it does happen. And when it does, there are definitely probably a handful of routes that you kind of really want to take a look at to make sure that they're good, which is like high on boulder, main vein, moonrise, sticky plum juice.
00:13:37
Speaker
smooth and real milkshake, like there are a handful of climbs that have pretty major avalanche concerns. The issue is that most people don't think about it, right? Because it's that massive snowballs 4,000, 5,000 feet over your head, you can't really see it. But there are some concerns to be taken into consideration there. But again, it is rare, and I usually do post something on the cold fear site, you know, that hey, everybody heads up, Avi is an issue right now.
00:14:06
Speaker
After we get big dumps, for sure, if you show up in the valley and there's a foot to two feet of snow on the ground, you probably want to really think about where you're going to go because that terrain is very steep and when avalanche concerns are high.
00:14:20
Speaker
It's very heads up. A lot of climbs become major avalanche concern. But again, I've only seen that maybe two or three times in the last four or five years. Because it is pretty much, it's high desert. You're hiking through sagebrush and cactus as you're going to these ice climbs. And then once you ascend, you start to get into more of that avalanche terrain.
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah, and that's definitely my recollection is always starting from the car in boots on dry ground, you know, walking through, like you said, sagebrush and it's almost a little surreal because I'm, you know, dressed for winter climbing, I'm going winter climbing, but I'm not in the snow really. I've never brought skis to Cody, for example. I don't think anybody does approaches with skis there ever.
00:15:06
Speaker
So it's pretty minimal. I should say that there's a couple of great resources I didn't mention
Recommended Gear and Preparation
00:15:11
Speaker
yet. One, of course, is coldfear.com, which is the site that Aaron maintains. He's got a conditions report on there. And then if you are looking for a guidebook right now, the only guidebook available until Aaron. We're going to talk about that in a minute.
00:15:24
Speaker
publishes his guidebook someday is the guidebook called Winter Dance which is available from the author Joe Josephson at his website joejoseson.com and I'll have these links in the show notes as well.
00:15:40
Speaker
Yeah, so walk us through what's a typical, like you say, get up at dawn. You thought about avalanche hazard, 98% of the time there probably is none or none that you have to really worry about. So then you're heading up to the route, walking up through the sagebrush and cactus as you say. And how does a typical day unfold? What are you climbing? What do you need for rack wise, rope wise, those kinds of things?
00:16:09
Speaker
Yeah and the other thing I kind of recommend for people to do is take a picture at the car. Like take a picture of the route so they kind of know where they're at because I think a lot of times I find that people start hiking and then remember these things rise straight up out of the valley and so you don't really have that visual connection anymore where you're at to interpret you know whether I go right or left so I always tell people take a quick picture
00:16:33
Speaker
I think it helps navigate getting to these routes. The other thing to take into consideration is, is the river frozen or not? So typically when people go all the way to the end of the road, there's a couple of climbs that are, you know, kind of the ones to do, which is high on Boulder Moonrise. If the river's not frozen, be prepared to get some cold feet.
00:16:58
Speaker
I think you need to explain that a little bit more. How, what do you mean get some cold feet? Do you need to, and what do people do? What, how should they come prepared or for that? Because your eye on Boulder especially is one of the, one of the best ice climbs. Yeah. I mean, it's fantastic. So right next to mean green, which right next to mean green, which is another, another super classic. Like these are fantastic routes. So yeah, there's a river. What do you do? What's the deal?
00:17:26
Speaker
I typically will either bring a pair of sandals or I bring a pair of shoes that I just don't care they get wet because I'm not going to be wearing them on the way home and I'd say the river typically doesn't freeze until January although those routes will come in mid-November sometimes early November so get on the side of the bank take your boots off strap them on your backpack roll up your your pants and prepare to go at least knee-high depending on where you cross
00:17:56
Speaker
bring poles. I always tell people to bring poles. I wish I was a pole user 10 years ago because my knees would probably be a whole lot better. My body would have appreciated it, but poles are pretty much a must in the South Fork. Poles will help also cross because it's a real river. It's not a creek. It's a river. Then once you get to the other side, I usually ditch my shoes there and deal with the screaming barfies of the feet and then put those boots back on.
00:18:26
Speaker
Keep going. Aaron, would you agree if you know the river's unfrozen, like you've heard from someone or someone else had done the route, it's almost worth just leaving the car in your tennis shoes because it's not that far of a walk to the river and then you don't have to deal with the on and off. Yeah. You just ran across and then boots on. Yeah. Yeah. You can definitely do that. Yeah. Especially if you've got an extra pair of socks or whatever, then it doesn't matter leaving the truck. But definitely I wouldn't wear my socks.
00:18:55
Speaker
with the sneakers I plan on getting wet and then taking socks off because sometimes that trail can be a bit muddy and nasty so you know if you don't want to have cold feet all day long bring that extra pair of socks but yeah you could definitely leave because it's about it's a half mile to the river crossing.
00:19:12
Speaker
I have to point out, Steve, in Aaron's infinite genius, a few years back, he used his drone to scout the river to find if there was a spot where it was frozen so that we could cross without having to get our feet wet. It suddenly made me want to own a drone. That's amazing. I was like, okay, all right. I'll give you some credit. This is actually a really good idea. Yeah. I have to, I have to give Aaron some credit there.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah. And we, we have, last year we were able to get a mass, move a massive log so that we were able to cross early on. And so I'm thinking about trying to do like an annual, like see if we can move some match, you know, major log across. So nobody has to get wet, but the, the ice last year we built it and then he, the ice built up and there was an ice dam break and that thing was gone. So you never know. Never plan on the log being there. Right. So, you know,
00:20:09
Speaker
After the approach, you get to your route wherever you're going. Do climbers need to plan on taking all their stuff with them? Do you tend to come down these routes? What's the logistics on most of these for a descent? Yeah. And I'll start with kind of the typical rack, too. So typical rack.
00:20:35
Speaker
whatever amount of screws you're usually comfortable with. I usually carry only eight to 10 that forces you not to place too many or my partner's to place too many. But most people should probably bring it anywhere between 10 and 15 screws and always, always a screw for your V thread. So big, nice, long screw for doing V threads. And then always double rope. Minimum 60 meter double rope, 70s if you got them. Single rope.
00:21:04
Speaker
really isn't going to do any good when it comes to descending in the south fort because the roots are just big. Typically, you know, wrap anchors are not easy to find even in the ice. So having that extra, you know, 10 meters, you got a 70 meters pretty nice and it's come in very handy a number of times. There's not like a ton of trees just sitting all over the place or a ton of bolted anchors. So plan on, you know,
00:21:31
Speaker
descending just like you were in the alpine somewhere. That's really important. Rock rack, I really don't take much of a rock rack of any sort. I would say ditch it unless you plan on doing something mixed that you know is trad, but most of the mixed routes in the valley are bolted. There's just a few trad ones. It's kitty litter rock. So it doesn't really lend itself to any fabulous crack climbing where you can place cams. And then, as you said, you get to the base
00:22:00
Speaker
kind of get racked up. I typically take all of your thing with me. You just never know what you're going to get into above or which way you're going to come down. Most of the routes are descended the same way you come up. So you can leave, ditch one pack with some stuff you don't need, and then the second takes up the pack with the weight in it.
00:22:28
Speaker
Definitely, you know, make sure that you've got enough warm stuff to go up. I think that's what I see a common mistake. They don't take enough fuel, you know, food and water as they go up, you know, now you're 2000 feet up, you're feeling dehydrated, you know, you're hungry yet.
00:22:43
Speaker
to really take that much food. I think those are some of the things I see as well as, oh, I left my down jacket. I figured we're just doing two pitches. The weather changes pretty quickly in the South Fork as well. So it can be a calm day to a 50 mile an hour wind in a matter of minutes. Yeah, I would say let's talk about the wind for a second. The wind is a factor there more than other places I've climbed. Tell me, talk about that.
00:23:09
Speaker
Yeah, again, the valley sits at the base of these really massive mountains that rise right out of the valley, 4,000, 5,000, 6,000 feet straight up. And it's kind of at the edge of the mountain range. So when the storms start to come in, the wind just nukes. And yes, 40, 50 mile an hour wind can be pretty common on a storm starting to come in.
00:23:38
Speaker
you got to be prepared for that. And you got to be prepared for that when you're 3,000 foot up a route and still climbing and now you've got to white out or whatever it might be. But I think the weather is definitely a thing that people don't prepare for very well there. I've started the car and it was 40 degrees in the morning when I left. When I got back, it was negative five. So I think being prepared for that. The other thing to think about with wind
00:24:04
Speaker
look at the weather if it's going to be a big windy day you know you want to carefully choose what route you're going to be on because some of the routes most of these routes are like basically massive funnels you know so everything that drops off from the top pretty much goes to the bottom now thankfully a lot of these routes have some good ledge systems with snow on them
00:24:23
Speaker
so it captures some of that but you know base of high up boulders are pretty bad spot when it's windy so you want to be careful where you're at there mean green base of mean green is another bad place to be main vein is probably one of the worst because you're there's nowhere to run for that thing for four or five pitches you're pretty much everything that comes down it's going to come at you you're going to be pretty much be in the shooting gallery but wind is definitely a thing there especially
00:24:51
Speaker
The wind, when there's not much snow on the ground, then there's a whole lot more rockfall. But when there's some good snow on the ground, it kind of holds in all that kitty litter. So that's something to take into consideration.
00:25:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think wind-generated rockfall is not something people generally think about, but I've experienced it in a few places, and that's one of them for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah, so one of the things that I think prompted this, and we'll come back to this theme again and again probably today, but
00:25:26
Speaker
It is a lot like alpine climbing. I think that people need to realize that it's a lot different to climb in the South Fork in Cody than it is, for example, around Uray, Colorado, or even highlight Canyon up in Bozeman. The roots are just much, much bigger. There's real objective hazard. It's a real serious environment.
00:25:54
Speaker
just much much bigger terrain you're out all day doing lots of vertical up and down having to build your own anchors like you said like I don't
00:26:05
Speaker
I haven't climbed there in a while, but I don't remember ever seeing a bolted rappel anchor ever when I've climbed in Cody. Granted, most of the climbing I did in Cody was in the 90s, and I've only been back a handful of times since, but I mean, it was all D threads and trees back then, and sometimes very alpine-esque, really scratching to find stuff and to make it work.
00:26:31
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think, you know, I've put some bolted anchors in on some of the classic trade routes, but even those bolted anchors, you know, they're not on every pitch because sometimes the rock is just so bad that just doesn't matter. I've also put bolted anchors in and then come back the next winter and they're pretty much gone or they've been completely sheared off from water.
00:26:57
Speaker
So that's a real scenario, but you're right. V-threads are pretty much get comfortable doing V-threads. Practice them. When I teach clinics at festivals, I'm like, practice your V-thread because you don't want your first V-thread ever being in the middle of the night when you're trying to send seven, eight pitches. You know, feel comfortable doing it. The other thing I would also ask people is don't leave cord.
00:27:19
Speaker
you know, do naked V threads, there's no reason to leave cord. Every year I go to the base of the big classic roots and I do, I pick up a ton of cord. I think people are just like, ah, just disappears into the earth. Well, that definitely doesn't. It's laying all over the rocks and becomes a real, it's a real issue. I mean, broken hearts is one that, I mean, I'll pick up half a trash bag full of cord. Yeah, that's something that I've been,
00:27:44
Speaker
Uh, Vince Anderson and I have been kind of, uh, trying to get on people about down here in Southwest Colorado too, is to get people to use more naked V threads. And, and honestly, like a lot of the, you know, you know, the trade routes get, get, I mean, and people, and then people back up to backups and, you know, you go up to places around here every summer and I'm, I'm all doing the same thing picking up.
00:28:09
Speaker
a couple of garbage bags worth of thread material every summer. It's an issue and I think I want to plug. I've got a really, what I think is a pretty good video on the uphill athlete YouTube channel about building V-thread. So if you're unfamiliar with that, go into the YouTube channel for uphill athlete or search for
00:28:30
Speaker
Search for it on the video page of the uphill athlete website and you'll you'll find it It's got a bunch of views and it walks you through how to make a naked v-thread So yeah, that's something is ice climbers. We all need to get a little more as a community We need to get more comfortable with I I never leave I never put cord in like I just don't see the don't see the reason Yeah for leaving it frankly, so I've used it a pretty wet ice in fact I I
00:29:00
Speaker
Main example of a video of it, I think last winter, just super wet ice, cold day, no problem pulling the rope. It's all as long as you're moving in between wraps and you move it as soon as you go to the bottom, it's not going to get frozen.
00:29:13
Speaker
I've never had one freeze on me. That's an more advanced technique, but yeah. Yeah, exactly. Got to give you a shout out, Aaron, because you mentioned it so casually that you've been adding bolts to a lot of the trade routes. You're doing this out of your pocket.
00:29:32
Speaker
You know, you've been bolting a lot of stuff in Cody to really just make it easier for people. Um, and so anyone that goes to Aaron's website, uh, to check conditions, cold fear.com, he sells some shirts on there. All the money that goes from the shirts goes to maintaining anchors. And so by a shirt, you'll be the coolest person in the rock gym, but you'll also have a good anchor, uh, when you're in the South fork. So, yep.
00:29:59
Speaker
Yep. All the money goes to bolts and anchors. Yep. And I, we do, I think, uh, I mean, we placed about 80 bolts last year, if I remember correctly. Now, a lot of that's also new routes and things like that. So.
00:30:14
Speaker
And I think I like to say that every crag has a mayor. And Aaron, you're definitely the mayor of the South Fork and keeping the spirit alive there and being the point person that everyone is coming to for information and beta and conditions and all that stuff. So thanks for being that person. Every place needs somebody like that that's doing that work and kind of keeping up with that stuff.
00:30:40
Speaker
Let's talk about information and guidebooks and mountain projects and so forth. Like, where do you send people to get information on the routes? You know, pretty much send them to grab Winterdance. But I also, the guidebook, yep, which is obvious, you know, at this point is definitely outdated. There's double the amount of routes than there was when that was published.
00:31:10
Speaker
Um, right now it's really, uh, it's really winter dead. So, but people that want to reach out to me.
00:31:17
Speaker
I spend quite a bit of time every week responding with people about route beta, what's in, what's not, you know, things to think about. I definitely love helping people out. I think there's also kind of a rumor that, you know, I don't like to share where new routes are that I put up. That's absolutely not the case. If anybody reaches out to me, I'm always happy to share where that stuff's at and give them all the beta. I just haven't had the time to, you know, write it all down, which is where the guidebook comes in.
00:31:47
Speaker
But I'm always happy to share intel and information with people, where to go, what not, you know, what to stay away from. You know, I've had people reach out, you know, hey, it's my first time in Cody. I want to climb, you know, water ice for, you know, what's, what should be my top five things to take a look at and then I'll shoot them that back. So I have, I respond every day to people looking for that stuff in the wintertime and non-winter.
00:32:12
Speaker
Great. And Aaron, the social handles are at cold fear. Um, C-O-L-D-F-E-A-R on, I know you do Instagram, you do Facebook and Twitter as well. It's cold fear.com on Facebook and cold fear. I know it's Aaron Mulkey on Twitter. Uh, not as active on Twitter. I mean, I think I just posted all through Instagram, but, uh, you know, all those are places where people communicate with me. I'd say Facebook and Instagram are definitely the big ones. Okay.
00:32:42
Speaker
Great. And then, you know, as far as, you know, you mentioned that the guidebook, which is this would be the probably the first news outlet that I've even talked about the guidebook. I have planned on having it out this fall. But I am not quite ready. I think
00:33:01
Speaker
One thing that has come to me as I've started to really go through it is Jojo really set the bar high with the winter dance. And I really want to have a really nice guidebook like that for the South Fork. Um, and I have not been able to commit the time that I would like to, but I also, bigger than that is there's three really big, big areas. Uh, two of those three are really big new areas that I just don't have the photos, um, and all the information I'd like.
00:33:29
Speaker
to put together in that guidebook. So I am putting out hold, also trying to gather the photos for some more things, some classics. This winter, I am going to fully commit that it will be out next summer. I will have no problem with that. But it's just not, you know, it's just like, when it just doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel right. And this one just didn't feel right without these two big areas. One of them being basically,
00:33:57
Speaker
a mini South Fork Valley. That's really cool. It's remote. It's really tough to do in a day, but you can do it in a day. But there's over 30 routes in there that are really great. So I'm excited to share that with some people as well as some other places.
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah, and thank you for taking your time because this will be around for a long time and it's going to be the resource for most likely decades to come for climbers. So how about giving us sort of a typical, you know, a lot of the people that come through the uphill athlete community, whether they're kind of doing their own fitness program or they're getting coached or somewhere in between, a lot of them
Essential Routes and Training Benefits
00:34:45
Speaker
You know, they're going to come in for three days, maybe maximum a week. And let's say, you know, they're like leading four or five minus. What are, what are some of the, what's on the hit list? All right. Tell us about, tell us about like a
00:35:03
Speaker
You know, three days in Cody. What do you tell me? I mean, you answered this question all the time. So I know you know the answer. So what kind of things do you recommend people look at? Yeah. The first thing I will, I kind of put as the caution is the disclaimer. The disclaimer at the bottom is grades. If you are very confident water ice for climber and you come to Cody, you're probably going to feel much more of like,
00:35:32
Speaker
a confident water ice three climber and Cody. I think that's pretty fair, John, would you say, Steve? 100%. Well, I think people who have climbed in Colorado ice or mix need to realize that the Colorado grades are really soft. Colorado grades are at least a full number below it, everywhere else, basically.
00:35:56
Speaker
And because there's so many climbers in Colorado, they kind of tend to not realize that. I live in Colorado, but I'm not not native to here. I've climbed a lot of other places, but a water ice five in the San Juans is nothing like a water ice five in the South War, nor is it the same as a water ice five in the Canadian Rockies. It's just, it's just.
00:36:18
Speaker
not the same. Bridalville Falls is supposedly a water ice 6 and that would be an easy water ice 5 up in the south fork I would say.
00:36:29
Speaker
And a dovetail on that, the amount of climbers and traffic Cody sees is exponentially smaller than Colorado. And so if you're used to picked out routes, which happens in Canada a little more these days, like, you know, it's another reason why I love Cody is that.
00:36:51
Speaker
you're not drafting on pick holes in the Alpine, you know, you're not going to be drafting on pick holes in Cody or it's very unlikely. I should say drafting on pick holes, John means like when a route's been climbed a lot, it kind of gets sometimes we call it picked out or hacked out. And so you don't have to swing as much because there's already sort of holes in the ice where you could kind of hook your tools even in the more extreme cases. I mean, the worst
00:37:16
Speaker
is, for example, the best example, I should say, of that is the Ure ice park, where there's hundreds of climbers in there every day, and these routes all get climbed sometimes 20, 30 times a day. And so after the ice fest in January, the rest of the winter, you don't really have to swing. We kind of joke about it. You just have to hook. But that does not happen in the South Fork. And I agree. A lot of these things,
00:37:44
Speaker
Point back to why we're having this conversation is that this is it's such a nice Place to go for a real Big ice climbing experience. It's akin to Alpine climbing much more so than probably anywhere else I can think of Certainly in the lower 48 but possibly and possibly in North America I mean, it's just there's a lot more yeah, frankly a lot more climbers in Canmore and Banff now than there are in Cody and
00:38:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's absolutely come feeling like you're going to go to the Alpine. Prepare like you're going on an Alpine climb in the middle of nowhere. Even though there's a road right below there, it will feel pretty wild once you're up there. And you know what, I mean, early in late season, they could also be, you know, there's grizzly bears and wolves. I've come face to face with a pack of wolves years ago at a remote place. And that was pretty sketchy and scary at the time. But so yeah, it's a wild place both in the, you know,
00:38:41
Speaker
the terrain as well as the animals that are there. So I think you're not, rarely are you going to see other people, even on the big trade routes, unless you're here on, you know,
00:38:51
Speaker
Christmas week that's there or Thanksgiving week, even then it's, you know, not a ton of people, but definitely be prepared to, you know, to be by yourself or to be out there. And you're not going to see picked out ice. You're not going to draft pickles. You're going to feel like you're the first one climbing this chunk of ice for the first time this year. That's pretty much what it's going to feel like. What I tell people is if you can climb fours and Cody, you can climb them anywhere. If you can climb fives and Cody, you can climb them anywhere.
00:39:20
Speaker
And just keeping that in mind, I think definitely that first day for someone who's new to Cody that I think you're going to talk about, like be conservative, um, from the first pitch, uh, the, uh, I can think of a few memorable times where I was. Oh, we're just going to solo this easy three pitch. No problem. We'll just, you know, we'll blast up to the next hard pitch and being halfway up to three and being like, what was I thinking? Like, so, yeah. And the other.
00:39:51
Speaker
caveat that there's no trails, right? So you're not blazing in on some trail. Like there's very few trails that actually go, not that don't even go to ice climbs, but they'll take you maybe beneath them a thousand feet or something. But yeah, you're pretty much trudging through the hills on no trail, which takes a lot out of most people when they're, you know, when they're just not there, you know, aerobically.
00:40:12
Speaker
We'll get to that, but let's go back to, you started to talk about the caveat. Oh, it's the grades and that kind of sidetracked us from the conversation about the, you know, the tick list for first time South Fork Climbers. Yeah, I think if you're coming first time here,
00:40:30
Speaker
I think, and here in that, you know, grade four range mean green, I think is, is a great route. It's a, what you climb up, depending on how you do the pitches, you know, we're between six, seven pitches, uh, altogether. Um, I, I would say that, uh, um, I'm.
00:40:48
Speaker
My book it's it's a three plus easy for for Cody probably easy for it might be a little tough on it and and I will note that in winter dance. It shows it as water is five, but the fourth pitch.
00:41:01
Speaker
which used to be a pillar got filled in by a ton of debris from a mudslide. And so it really is no longer the pillar that it used to be. So Steve, when you were there, it was probably this fantastic pillar. It's no longer that. Yeah, it's no longer that anymore. So it is pretty much an easy grade four at this point.
00:41:20
Speaker
but it's got that very standard south work so you know you're starting at 6,800 feet and you're climbing all the way to you know 9,000 near 10,000 feet if you're doing all the top pitches and then there you've got you know hiking in between that which
00:41:37
Speaker
if you're lucky there may be somebody post-hold you know through and you got a bit of a path to go through otherwise you're earning your keep hiking in between those pitches to get up there but that's pretty much for most people that's going to be a pretty full value day for them to do all pitches and most people you know probably only do the first four or first three
00:41:58
Speaker
You know, I've done it both ways. I can remember, uh, doing it both the short and the, and the very full version. And I want to point out that we're talking about 50 meter pitches at least, right? Like these are, these are typically not, um, you know, I sort of jokingly call this with my friends, Italian pitches, because a lot of the roots, like in the Dolomites, you know, mostly because they were put up like a hundred years ago and they had really short ropes, but a lot, you know, a lot of the pitches there, like on the topo or 15 meters, 20 meters, um,
00:42:28
Speaker
These are real pitches. These are rope lengths. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the middle pitches aren't quite rope lengths, but yeah, that first pitch is 85 meters. You know, as you do is one, you know, you do it as two pitches. So depending on where you stop has got a hanging blade or final ledge somewhere. I would say if anything, Cody has a lot of those little older I steps things to weave in through that they don't count that you plan on in between the real pitches.
00:42:58
Speaker
Yeah. Lots of water rights too. Yeah. Yeah. So that doesn't, didn't count. Yeah. What would you, Aaron, what would you tell, say the average person to budget to get over to Mean Green from the car? Like, what are we talking about? I think it probably takes most people two hours, hour and a half. So two hours to the base and then big eight pitch routes. Big eight pitch route. Yeah. So if you're doing that in December,
00:43:26
Speaker
you know, not a whole lot of hours in the day in January, you know, you could start perhaps, you know, before the light even comes up, but moving fast is gonna be key to get that thing done. I always tell people just, in those time, you know, just plan to get comfortable coming down at nighttime, because if you're planning to have those big days, you just got to be prepared to come down at night. Yeah. Headlight defense for sure. Oh yeah, absolutely. So I think, you know, Mean Green is probably,
00:43:56
Speaker
If you're in that water ice for range, that's typically the place I tell people to go to. And then, you know, high on Boulder as well would be another one. You know, those are kind of side by side slightly. Same trail to kind of get you over there, but high on Boulder would be the other one that would be on my list to tell people to, you know, knock that one off. Would you agree high on Boulder's, you know, only what, two pitches, right?
00:44:21
Speaker
depending on how you do it. So yeah, you've got a middle pitch there, which most people will do, but then the very top pitch is called pillar of pain. And that is a grade five. So if you do, if you're staying in that, you know, four range, you would, you would do three pitches of high on Boulder.
00:44:37
Speaker
And so that could be a good, if they're efficient and fast, that could be a good half day route or something they do before they have to drive back to the airport in the evening or, uh, or just a good first day to check in. Like, what does a four feel like in Cody? Yeah. Yeah. And then the other one I would say is broken hearts, uh, up to the fifth pitch amphitheater because then that becomes grade five at that point, but.
00:45:01
Speaker
You can do all four pitches with a ton of you know, easy I steps in between all that stuff. And then you can even do the walk off or do the wrap down that route. But that's another broken hearts is one of like the 50 classics. But at, you know, at pitch five, it becomes grade five.
00:45:23
Speaker
Yeah, that pillar of pain, I have a very distinct memory of leading that back, you know, probably one of my first real grade five pitches that I ever led and I was left an impression, let's say. Yeah, I can transport myself back to that memory anytime I wish.
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah, and then it's got its, you know, big brother at Coron and Argery right next to it, which is, you know, the next step up from from Broken Hearts, from that fifth pitch, depending on whether it's formed or whether it's mixed, you know, that one can add full value. Yeah, great, great resource for ice climbers up there in the South Fork. I really can't recommend it enough, you know, to people.
00:46:13
Speaker
I think that I want to kind of bring it back around a little bit to sort of training and preparation. And I know that the three of us have talked about this amongst ourselves and John and his coaching work and all my work with uphill athlete have talked a lot to people about this over the years. But I think that one of the things as we keep saying is it is like alpine climbing. So not only is it a great training ground per se, like a lot of people
00:46:43
Speaker
I do think that, you know, I recommend that people
00:46:51
Speaker
There are people that just need to go climbing and there are people that need to actually improve their fitness and knowing which one of those where you are at. And typically the people who need to go climbing, the people who hasn't climbed that much, they're often young. So they have the advantage of kind of, you know, youth and the kind of natural, you know, energy levels that go with that. And for, you know, like when I was first in Cody, I was like, I don't know, whatever, 24 years old or something like that. And I wasn't training for climbing. I was,
00:47:18
Speaker
climbing as much as I could but what a great place to get some experience and log some miles on you know time the saddle as they say and then for other people that need to work on their fitness it's really like a kind of a great place to kind of set as a goal and you know we're here sit talking at this moment in the beginning of the autumn and you know in a
00:47:41
Speaker
the ice starts to come in in the beginning of November, even October. And you can be thinking about a trip in December. That's mostly when I've climbed there, actually. It was mostly between Thanksgiving and Christmas. I don't think I've ever been there at any other time, actually. But it's always just been a great time where there's good, reliable ice.
00:48:12
Speaker
more is either a goal in and of itself and a good way to kind of launch yourself into a solid season of ice climbing, get your head on straight. And in that case, you're thinking about starting training more or less now and kind of trying to peak for, you know, do a week plan or something like that and kind of have a little peak with that. One of the things I think is funny with, not funny, but ironic, let's say with ice climbing is the hardest conditions are actually in the beginning of the season.
00:48:34
Speaker
than if you're looking at that more as like,
00:48:42
Speaker
Typically, as the season progresses, the climbs become easier, the ice often gets
00:48:48
Speaker
a little softer, maybe gets climbed a little more, there's just more of it. In Cody, that's not necessarily the case where a lot of the ice actually sublimates or that kind of the process of essentially evaporation where the ice goes from solid right into a gaseous water vapor form. So it kind of gets thinner and detached from the rock as the season goes on, I would say. And Aaron's nodding here, so in agreement, but that's
00:49:15
Speaker
That's all points us back towards kind of thinking about where this goes in terms of preparation. I know Aaron, you've got like a little training dungeon or something in your garage or shop or something. I know I've seen photos. We share mutual sponsor with Gravel and I know you've shared some stuff through the Gravel websites and social media about your training pain cave and so forth. And I think that that's a big part of
00:49:42
Speaker
preparing for these both the climbing part, but also as you pointed out, what catches a lot of people off guard is they can climb well, but they don't have the aerobic fitness. Yeah. Yeah. The aerobic is such a big thing. Um, I, you know, when I started climbing in Cody, I, I, you know, was young and, you know, energetic and, uh, I fought my way up stuff. Uh, but I started definitely found that as I wanted to climb harder,
00:50:09
Speaker
It was getting up there that was exhausting me. It wasn't necessarily the climbing. It was getting up there. And so I'd get thought to that fifth pitch and just be like, I don't think I got it in me. I'm just exhausted. We've hiked up through knee deep snow or whatever it is at 3,000 feet. And now I got to climb the hardest pitch and I would just be tired. And so I started to figure out that I had to really focus on that cardio aerobic piece. And so I spent most of my summers trail running, running,
00:50:38
Speaker
uh quite a bit in order to get that aerobic piece and that's really my preparation for winter to come is to get the aerobic piece up and then like you said I have a cave that a friend owns kind of a uh crossfit type uh gym in town and I said hey what are you doing with this corner over here and she's like well nothing I was like how could I
00:50:58
Speaker
build a cave, you all right with that? She's like, yeah, do whatever you want. So I have, it's, I'm lucky to have a really nice training cave that I'm able to get all my tools, um, and get in there. And I think that's the other thing to me that's really important is just like, I tell people like before season, just hang on your tools. Just even the simplest of movements on your tools will help prep you for that day that you go out and Hey, you know, I'm used to this feeling of hanging on these tools and just moving.
00:51:27
Speaker
that is really important, but the South Fork kicks people's butts from a cardio perspective. They just do not have the physical fitness there. They're strong. You know, if they hop out at your A and want to go climb M11, they're fine. But when you have to go and climb six pitches and you've been hiking for five, six hours of the day, now you've got to climb M11, M10, whatever it might be. It's a different game. Absolutely.
00:51:57
Speaker
And as I started mix climbing and wanted to become more proficient at that, I learned that my cardio just wasn't where it needed to be. I just didn't have it in me. A great example is a new route we bolted way back in Deer Creek, which is it's five miles in. By the time you get to the base of the route, you've hiked in five miles and about 2,000 feet. And then you have to climb three pitches of ice just to get to where this M10 is.
00:52:26
Speaker
And you're like, you get there, you feel like you've been climbing all day, but now it's time for you to fire this thing up. And if you don't have that physical fitness built in, you're done for. And I've climbed with some really strong friends of mine that are in Colorado, wherever it might be. And they're used to hopping out of the car, running to Vail up the mountain 20 minutes and then climbing M10 or whatever it is.
00:52:51
Speaker
They get, they get here and they get to the pitches and they're just like, man, I'm just tired. I don't, I don't, I don't have it in me. You know, I don't know what's going on. I'm thinking, well, I know exactly what's going on. Yeah. You haven't been hiking. You haven't been hiking uphill, you know, really for, you know, long periods of time. You haven't been, you know, your cardio is just not there. Like I get it. Um, and one of my good friends, who's one of the stronger mix climbers around. We talk about trainees. All of his is just tools, tools, tools, tools.
00:53:17
Speaker
And I'm like, you know, I go to the gym, I can't just do tools, like I'll be dead in the water, you know, three hours in, just if I don't have the legs conditioned and everything else. So 100% agree, you know, it is a true alpine environment up there and you got to train for it that way.
Fitness and Preparation
00:53:36
Speaker
And if you don't, it'll eat you alive.
00:53:40
Speaker
Yeah, and that's something that, you know, we talked about in our first book, Training for the New Alpinism is, you know, it's exactly the problem with alpine climbing, right? It's why it's so similar is, you know, the cruxes come when the cruxes come and you got to be fresh and ready physically and mentally for that moment. And that's why that's part of the magic of climbing in Cody, I think, is just being able to train that in a way, psychologically as well, that you can
00:54:07
Speaker
you can allow yourself to figure out how to arrive at these cruxes mentally capable of saying, okay, time to throw down. Like, okay, now I've been waiting for this. This is the moment. And, you know, psyching yourself off and getting ready to pull hard and to do the hard climbing that comes at the end of the day. Because that's, you know, that is kind of the
00:54:32
Speaker
What alpinism boils down to many times is it just boils down to you know a moment I think every every alpine climb I've ever done I can think of that a moment of doubt so to speak as David Roberts put it in his in his classic book where it's like Okay, this is this is the pitch like this is the moment where we either go up or we go down and if we go get through this we're gonna
00:54:59
Speaker
continue to go up. And if we don't, we're going to go down. And every, every climb, uh, has that moment and the climbs and Cody are, are right in that genre. And I really liked that about it. Yeah. And I think that piece of that is just even from a safety aspect, right? Like you're a long ways in, like nobody's coming to save you. You're, you know, you're 24 hours away from some search and rescue to come and get you. So when you do get to that pitch, you better be confident. You better feel like you're going to, you know, this thing is going down, not like, well, I'm going to go up and just see how this thing goes. That's,
00:55:29
Speaker
you know, never goes well. Um, and I think that's where people start to get themselves in trouble is, uh, they get way back in there and then I throw themselves at stuff that, you know, they're just not physically ready for or physically fit enough for. Right. And I think for me that it's just kind of took it to the next level of like, how fast can you start doing some of these routes? You know, like broken hearts is what we talked about that is, uh,
00:55:53
Speaker
You know, kind of, it's the 50 classics. And so we used to always do kind of like, I only had a couple, you know, I only had a morning to go climb. I'd run up the first four pitches and then do the walk off and, uh,
00:56:04
Speaker
I remember talking to John one time and I was like, yeah, man, I got it, got it down to like two hours and five minutes. You know, then I started really focusing on that, um, fitness level and running a lot more in the summer and really leading up to high season. And, you know, last year I had it down to an hour and nine minutes, which I thought would never be possible. And now now I'm like, well, crap.
00:56:27
Speaker
it could probably go under an hour. And that's, you know, that's basically running to the base of the ice route, soloing up and then running off and, you know, gaining, you know, I think it's like 2,500 feet elevation gain. But learning how that's, you know, learning how, for me, pushing myself and those conditions has also made me realize how much more fit I've become and that how that training prior to the season has really helped set me up throughout that year to be physically where I need to be.
00:56:56
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, that's great. You know, we always encourage people to have some sort of benchmarks and they're hopefully in their backyard. I mean, not everybody lives where you do. They can do a four-pitch or has the skills that they can go solo four-pitch ice climb and see how fast they can do it. But, you know, just having like a hill in the backyard or a trailhead nearby where you can
00:57:20
Speaker
you can kind of benchmark your fitness from year to year is even within a season and see improvements is really a great tip. Like that's sort of a secret of the pros thing right there that you just talked about where we all have those little benchmarks and that's how you keep track progress. It's not so much about FKT or the bragging right or whatever. It's more about like where am I in my
00:57:50
Speaker
You know, worst to best every, not my only trip every year, but my, I try and aim for February to slightly early March. And I will go out there, even though it's starting to warm up and you can get away with the lighter boots. I'll go out there and my, my Alaska kit, my double boots, the crampons I'm going to wear there, the gloves I'm going to wear there.
00:58:14
Speaker
And we'll try and do some of these long routes that Aaron was talking about and just kind of check in a little bit, but more, it gives me the mental confidence of. If I do get a window to go to Alaska or I do leave in sometime in March or April that that volume is already there. So the, the climbing in the big boots climbing in the thick gloves feels natural, but I also have the mental confidence of, Oh yeah, I did all those routes and Cody.
00:58:39
Speaker
I'm ready to go, let's go. I have prepared and executed as I needed to. Yeah, I think that's another great pro-trip tip, John. And we talked about this in another discussion we had a few months ago about when we talked about the smash and grab climbing style of buying the last minute plane ticket when the weather window shows up for Alaska or whatever, or Canadian Rockies and getting up somewhere.
00:59:09
Speaker
flying or driving or whatever and getting something in it and that's that's that people don't realize you know they see that they see the glamorous first ascent and that kind of stuff but they don't realize like a lot all the work and preparation actually went into that that kind of due diligence with your details and like you just said like climbing with the boots climbing with the crampons like frankly like i always climb with the same crampons
00:59:32
Speaker
because I always want to know exactly where my front point is without having to ever think about it. So I never change crampons because I always and I just always climb with what I climb with in the mountains. And, you know, I mean, I'll switch into fruit boots for like a little dry tooling fun or whatever. But that's that's not that's something that's something different to me. When I'm when I'm out doing ice climbing, I'm basically running the same setup I run all the time. So.
01:00:00
Speaker
I had, I had double boots on for, uh, pillars of the community had come in and which Mr. Alex Lowe had said it was a four and, uh, to staying true to the Cody grades. And I definitely, definitely was which wishing I had my lighter boots on, uh, throughout that, but. You know, it just so turned out that year that it had come in, not even a couple of weeks later, there was a good window for Alaska and the confidence of
01:00:30
Speaker
struggling up key pillars of the community definitely gave me the mental confidence to climb the harder pitches on the Alaska route we ended up doing. So at the time I was regretting it, but I was glad I had done it a few weeks later.
01:00:46
Speaker
Yeah, I can actually say I got to climb the pillar. I got to follow Alex on pillar of the community. Oh, really? I should blame you for the water ice floor rating. No, no, that wasn't the first descent. He had actually climbed it before. Because he did do the first descent of that, right? Yeah, he did. I'm pretty sure he did. Yeah, that's what I thought. I think we might have done the...
01:01:09
Speaker
second ascent of it. Like I did, there was a couple of routes that I did with Alex there where he had done the second, he had done the first ascent and then he wanted to do it again. So we went and did the second ascent and he was still the only person that was climbing at that level back then. Yeah, that was a good one too. Yeah. So what were you saying Aaron? Oh, as I say, the other thing I do is when I'm following, I typically wear my, my thick gloves, my, you know, whatever gloves I play off of or if it's
01:01:37
Speaker
I would normally not climb on them. Unless I was in Alaska or something, I'd probably climb in those gloves. But I do tend to climb as a follower with a thicker glove. To me, it's kind of training as well. But it also helps those times where you do need to have a little bit of a thicker glove. You feel pretty confident in what grade you can climb with. Although, for the most part, I climb in very thin gloves when I'm leading. But it's always good to know what you can climb with.
01:02:03
Speaker
on a thicker glove and get used to, you know, even messing with the screws, everything else. So typically never climb second on the gloves that I ever lead in. So. Yeah, absolutely. I do the same with my holy gloves and my lead gloves. Great tips, guys. Well, I think we ought to wrap it up here and I just want to make sure everybody knows how to get a hold of Aaron at Cold Fear.
01:02:30
Speaker
And through any of his, you know, he has a bunch of sponsors he's worked with. We share Gravel, BL Ropes, and it's also with RAB and Hyper Light and SCARPA. And you can find him over there with those guys. Climb for them. You can usually find him down here at the Urea Ice Festival. He's often here.
01:02:50
Speaker
usually why I see you it seems like lately for some clinics hopefully there is a ice festival this winter we'll see and yeah so make sure you check that out support his website with the t-shirt support the the bolting and the anchors that Aaron the work that Aaron is doing down there and thanks to you John for for helping us set this up and bringing
01:03:14
Speaker
Bring your stories and experience and stuff. And we all there's a place we all three have climbed and love dearly. And and hopefully I just like to see a lot more people enjoy it. Such a special special place. I think we can all agree about that. I agree. I agree. All right, guys. Well, thanks for listening to another episode of the uphill athlete podcast and hope to see everyone out on the ice this winter. Thanks, Steve. Thanks, Steve. Thanks, guys.
01:03:45
Speaker
Thanks for joining us today. For more information about what we do, please go to our website uphillathlete.com.