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Forging an Adaptive Industry with Blaze Currie
36 Plays1 day ago
Leading forward demands curiosity, adaptability and team-first mentality.
Blaze Currie, Practice Lead for Food & Ag at Vivayic, joins The Cultivating Leaders Podcast to explore what it really takes to guide people, teams and organizations in leading agriculture. He brings a rare blend of global perspective and ag-rooted wisdom. Blaze has built a career staying curious, listening deeply, and adapting boldly.
He gets candid about:
- Leading with Curiosity: asking questions and understanding the why leads to clarity
- Communicating Impact: the best communicators listen first, build trust and speak intent before diving into strategy
- Creating Adaptive Teams: navigating a changing industry, building organic trust and honoring loss
This episode will motivate you to rethink what it means to guide others, to step into challenge and to see leadership as a lifelong journey rather than a destination.
Want to hear more from Blaze? Check out his blog here!
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About The Cultivating Leaders Podcast
Real stories. Practical advice. Tangible growth. Join The Cultivating Leaders Podcast, brought to you by Agriculture Future of America, as we explore what it takes to lead in food, agriculture, and beyond. Whether you’re just starting out or leading at the highest level, this podcast is your go-to resource for leadership that matters. Listen now and start cultivating your leadership journey.
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Transcript
00:00:02
Speaker
ah But to lead people means that you get the benefit of their motivation, of their buy-in, of their creativity, of their willingness to do things. And you cannot force people to be creative. You cannot force them to to do amazing things. You might be able to force them to do to to do small things or force them do exactly what you tell them.
00:00:20
Speaker
but But when you're really leading, you've empowered them to to chart their own path that goes along with the shared vision.
00:00:33
Speaker
Welcome to the Cultivating Leaders podcast, where we get inside the minds of leaders to harvest great ideas and lessons that help you grow as a difference maker in food and agriculture. I'm your host and Curiosity Captain, Nicole Ersig.
00:00:47
Speaker
Today's conversation is about what it means to really lead forward. to stay grounded in purpose while growing through change. Our guest today is Blaze Curry, the practice lead for food and ag at Viveic, where he helps mission-driven organizations rethink how they grow people, align teams, and adapt to a world that refuses to slow down.
00:01:05
Speaker
Before joining Vivek, Blaise spent years leading in agricultural education and youth development, including serving on the National Faith Staff, where he guided strategy and leadership programs that help shape thousands of young leaders. He's also a TEDx speaker, known for his thoughtful take on how people and organizations can learn faster than the change happening around them.
00:01:25
Speaker
Blaise, welcome to the pod. Yes, thanks for having me Nicole. What did I miss from your bio? Well, I, so yesterday was my birthday and I turned 40. and Happy birthday. Yes, thank you. And maybe as some insight, there were I got a couple of gifts.
00:01:41
Speaker
One was some utensils that I could use when grilling, like, you know, smoking or grilling. Another was a very, like, thick history book about...
00:01:53
Speaker
About wars. And the third were tickets to see Steve Martin and Martin Short. So I think those three things probably give a good window into my life outside of work.
00:02:06
Speaker
I love that. That's a great way to add to the bio too. And where is home for you, Blaze? So I currently live in Raleigh, North Carolina. my wife and I have lived here about almost three years. Awesome. I did not know that you lived in Raleigh. I'm glad I asked. My husband and I used to live in Raleigh.
00:02:22
Speaker
Small world. It's a beautiful place. i really i really enjoyed it. Yes. Yes, it is. It's like the perfect place in North Carolina too, I feel like, because you get the city, but you're like close to the beach. You can be in the mountains very quickly. It's ah it's a wonderful place to live.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, people a lot of people leave town on the weekends to go to the beach or to go to the mountains. Where I wanted to start, Blaze, this conversation is give us a little bit of background for someone who hasn't heard of Viveic and who you are and what you guys do.
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah, so Vivek is a learning strategy organization. So we help nonprofits, for-profit businesses, K-12 educational organizations with their learning design needs. So we design curriculum, we design training programs, um we help audit leadership development programs. So kind of a wide range, but it's a family-owned business and we have ah some some really strong clients that we've worked with for years and we like to help people with their learning design needs.
00:03:20
Speaker
So learning design sounds fancy. Tell me why an organization in agriculture needs someone like Vivek. Yeah, that's ah that's a really good question. So agriculture by nature is fairly technical. And so whether it it could be that there's an association that maybe, lets for example, represents a lot of members, a lot of producers, and there're there is a new disease outbreak and they want to educate those producers on on the disease outbreak. or Or in a company that sells agricultural products, maybe there's an innovation and they want to train all their salespeople on on how to talk about that specific innovation. Not so much from a marketing sales pitch standpoint, but to actually articulate how the product works. And so because agriculture is often technical in nature, there's a lot of learning that's required and it's always changing. The ag industries, there's new innovations, things are changing frequently.
00:04:14
Speaker
And so where there is technology or highly technical things and a lot of change, there's often a requirement for a lot of learning. Ah, yes. See, that makes it feel so practical and like such an important problem that you are helping solve for the industry. Because I think we we all have been in scenarios, those of us who work in agriculture, where how do I simplify this technical information so that someone else can understand it and then go talk about it too.
00:04:41
Speaker
So... Yes, especially because sometimes we're designing learning for a producer that's like they're learning about it on the combine or in in the coffee shop. And so we have to be really smart about how we are designing the learning materials that we are working for with our clients.
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah. So, Blaze, give us a little background on your career journey. How did you get to where you are today? Yeah. So i've I've been very connected to the agriculture industry my entire career. I grew up on a cotton and watermelon farm in West Texas. So agriculture has been a part of my life, my entire life. So it's funny, i've I've woven together maybe two different things that keep popping back in and out of my career.
00:05:22
Speaker
um One of those is working with young leaders. So i have just my entire career I found that no matter what role I'm in I find myself frequently working with young leaders, either lead the designing leadership development programs or coaching young leaders. And the other part of that i would say is global agriculture. So I've spent quite a bit of time, um overseas, both in East and West Africa in the middle East. Um, and so I've done quite a bit of international development work. And so those are kind of been the two golden threads of, of my career. And I'm really and enjoying what I get to do now with Viveg because I get to work with so many clients and companies that are doing so many things. I get to i still get to work on both of those things, some international agricultural topics and with with leaders in and agriculture.
00:06:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's a cool cross-section things to get to work on. So tell me, as you ah look back, what experiences maybe early in life or throughout your career shaped how you think and approach leadership?
00:06:25
Speaker
One of the most transformative experiences that I had was my first job out of college. So when I graduated college, I joined a team that went to Iraq. And we were part of, we were an asset of the military. So this was in 2008. It was during Operation Iraqi Freedom. And so we were an asset of the military in our job. It was a team of 12 of us. We were called Team Borlaug, named after ah Dr. Norman Borlaug.
00:06:53
Speaker
For some of your listeners who may know who Norman Borlaug is. And our job was to do agricultural assessments for the military. They were trying to rebuild Iraq, and so they were focusing a lot in the agriculture sector, and they wanted some experts. And I was young and fresh out of college, so my job was to interview young farmers ah in ah in Iraq and try to figure out you know what were their challenges, what were their opportunities.
00:07:14
Speaker
And there was um there was many transformative moments in that experience, but one that stands out to me was one day we were in a caravan going going to interview some farmers and ah a bomb went off near our caravan. It was an embedded explosive device called an IED.
00:07:30
Speaker
And thankfully no one was no one was hurt. But as soon as it went off, the soldiers began to try to figure out who planted this device. And ultimately they they apprehended this young man who looked to be about my age and he had a wife and little children and I saw them kind of detaining him.
00:07:48
Speaker
And later that night I was talking with the rest of the team and I just thought like I was saying things like, I can't believe he did that. Like why would somebody so young with so much life ahead of them throw it all away? you know, why why was he so angry to plant an explosive device? And I had these really amazing mentors.
00:08:05
Speaker
They asked really good questions. And so they started asking me like, well, he's about your age. if you were in his shoes, what, you know why might you do that? And so I started thinking about it and I'm like, well, intense reflection process. Yes. I'm like, well, he, you know, probably he doesn't know who's going to be there. How long is the U S military going to be there? Who's going to be left when the military leaves?
00:08:28
Speaker
Was his family threatened? Was he offered money to do this? Maybe he hoped that no one would get hurt, but he was encouraged to do this by a group that he was scared of. So i started thinking about all that and actually, um,
00:08:40
Speaker
The best way I can describe the lesson I learned is from the recent television series, Ted Lasso. don't know if heard of Ted Lasso. love Ted Lasso, yes. So there's a line in Ted Lasso where he says, don't be judgmental, be curious.
00:08:53
Speaker
And that that experience in Iraq and many since then have just reinforced for me the value of curiosity. And many of the leaders that I've met in my life that I really admire and look up to They have different styles. They have all kinds of different attributes. But one thing they all share is they're just innately curious people.
00:09:11
Speaker
And so that would be the lesson. Don't be judgmental. Be curious. ah That is something I feel like ah as Savannah and I have done many of these interviews continues to come up again and again. and it sounds like for you, it's something you've had to develop some of that curiosity.
00:09:28
Speaker
do you have any, like, what are questions you ask yourself today to kind of spark some of that reflection or Do you have a favorite question that you like to ask as you think about developing and and making that curiosity at practice? Yeah. one One little tip that I try to do is ask why five times. Sometimes we ask why and the first answer is we we settle on that. But usually if you, so if you, why, well, it's kind of like a child, like if you think of like a little toddler, but why, but why, but why? um i think that it's like, there's so much surface area to open-ended questions.
00:10:03
Speaker
So I think one is asking why, asking open-ended questions I've found to be very helpful. But then the other is just trying to put myself in someone else's shoes. And there's no, I mean, I'm not saying um'm I do it all the time or that I'm perfect at it, but i I find that I'm better able to to help um lead or problem solve if I can take a moment and not ask how would I do this, but ask like what what might be going through their mind? What's their experience?
00:10:33
Speaker
I just, I find it just extremely helpful. Yes, absolutely. I love questions, but ah is there any other way that you have developed that sense of curiosity um or really work to strengthen that muscle throughout your career and leadership journey? i think when you put yourself in places that are uncomfortable, ah that that curiosity becomes a natural tool. So for me, it's been international travel, but it doesn't have to be international travel. I think when when people are the first to raise their hand to say, I'll go try that out or or i'll I'll see what that's all about. I think...
00:11:12
Speaker
those kinds of experiences where it's a little uncomfortable, it's outside of the ordinary. and There's something that it awakens kind of the child in you that wants to know what's going on, why is this this way? And I'd say, I mentioned Norman Borlaug earlier, the good fortune of get to know him before he passed away because he was a professor when I was at Texas A&M University.
00:11:31
Speaker
And so, and Dr. Borlaug, you know, was the first kind of agriculturalist to win the Nobel Peace Prize for his innovations in agriculture. And I was talking to him and he was in his nineties. And the, the what like you would think that the quite that he would, I'm like looking at this hero saved a billion lives with his innovations.
00:11:51
Speaker
And when he would talk to me, he would get very specific. Like you grew up on a farm, what kind of wheat, you know, how much wheat does your dad grow? a Does he have this wheat rust disease? That's like, he was just innately curious. And i just thought to myself, like if at 90 years old, after seeing the world and being the father of the green revolution, if you're waking up every day and asking, tons of questions, like there's something t there. And i just admire people that never quit learning.
00:12:17
Speaker
Amen. And I think that's a key part of leadership. Like I've ah often been told like leaders are readers, but it's ah really leaders are learners and continuing to like your, your journey's never done. And there's always another tool or story or interaction or podcast, you know, to listen to, ah to help you along that way.
00:12:38
Speaker
i love that. Leaders are learners. Yes. I very much retweet as they say. I love it. Love it. ah So I want to ask a little bit about the international side of your career, because you obviously have had some incredible experiences. How have your international agriculture experiences shaped the way you look at American agriculture?
00:13:00
Speaker
Well, one one thing that I think. that across the world, farmers are very similar, that we think we're very different, but we're all dependent upon the weather.
00:13:14
Speaker
i don't know exactly why or how this came to be, but there's a deep family connection. So everywhere across, there's just a deep family connection to to agriculture in many cases. and And there's a lot of like richness and tradition. The tradition may be different, but there's just this value of of tradition.
00:13:32
Speaker
um And it's an ancient, you know it's ah it's ah it's the oldest industry in the world, right? So it's like, I there's just some i think the thing that's always surprised me is is no matter where I've traveled, when you're working with farmers, there's so much to have in common. Sometimes I think, take for granted in the United States, is that in many places farmers are kind of looked down upon in in many societies. they're the They're the lower tier, they're the downtrodden, and i just think that there's a lot of pride in in the U.S. and in most ah most you know most consumers, they may question products, but they love farmers, they love hearing from farmers. and so I think that's one one thing that we often take for granted here that i have I have noticed is different around the world. And I love it when we're doing international projects and we can help farmers gain a greater voice within their society and within their within their government.
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah, I never would have thought about that, Blaze. But that's in it in the United States, yes, farmers are are heroes in a lot of ways. Yeah. The idea of living on a farm is aspirational for a lot of people. um And they're a very trusted voice from the consumer standpoint.
00:14:39
Speaker
But that's um such an interesting reflection of the differences in the U.S. versus other parts of the world. Well, I want to talk about, ah Vivek talks a lot about leading forward. And I'm curious what lead forward means to you. How would you define that?
00:14:56
Speaker
Well, I think um maybe in its simplest form, it's that you're going somewhere. I think that there are many ways to lead forward, but um there may be some key indicators to determine, am I leading forward? And i think especially now that we're in a moment, especially in the agriculture industry, where there's there's a lot of challenges, there's a lot of change that's happening. And so I think organizations that when the leaders and or the teams that they lead are, when you when you hear things like, um so what are we going to do about it? Or here's here's what we're going to do next. Or well, plan A didn't work, so we're going to go with plan B.
00:15:34
Speaker
Like that that sense of agency to me is an indicator that you're a part of a team or an organization that's leading forward. However, if what you hear from your leaders or from members of the team or members of the organization is a lot of, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is happening.
00:15:50
Speaker
What are we going to, you know, like how this is going to be, this is terrible or, or, or just kind of their hands in the air. I think when you, it's okay to have a little bit of that, but when you, when you're perpetually hearing that cycle and not very much solution, i think that's an indicator that you're not, you're not leading forward.
00:16:07
Speaker
Makes a lot of sense of like going somewhere. You've got to work in a lot of different parts of agriculture and different teams and and organizations. what What do you think the industry is going to look like in 10 years? In 10 years? Or in the future. Yeah. But that's a good time frame on it. You know, 2035.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think there's going to be some pretty major leadership transitions that occur, both from from the farm gate all the way to the associations, local farm cooperatives, all the way to the to the some of the major ag companies. We're going to have a big wave of retirements and people transferring land. So I think there'll be and a new wave of leaders at the top is one way in which I think it'll look quite a bit different. um The maybe some other differences. i don't know. Honestly, this is going to not sound exciting. um
00:17:01
Speaker
I think that it'll look more the same than we anticipate. i It's funny to me, but I think. um You know, we've been we've been going to have autonomous vehicles that we're going to drive themselves for 50 years now, and we are just now getting them. Like, i change often happens slower than we think it will.
00:17:19
Speaker
um And often, the things that change the most are things that were hard to predict. So the things that we think are are going to change take longer than we think. And then then there's this whole like set of tertiary things that we never anticipated that change really fast. So I think it's really kind of hard to predict what the future is going to look like in 10 years.
00:17:39
Speaker
But my guess is that in many ways, it won't look huge amount different than it does now, other than there'll be a new wave of leaders that are taking stepping up in leadership roles over the next 10 years.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. When you were talking about the things that will change us the most are the things we can't predict, I immediately thought COVID and how much that changed so many things across the industry and no one ever could have predicted that. ah And so as we think about that generational leadership change, what what kind of leaders do you think we need next?
00:18:12
Speaker
I think Well, one, i think we need leaders that are going to be willing to adapt, that are ah adaptive. I also think we're going to need, there's a term I heard recently, and I've really kind of fallen in love with it, but I think we're going to need what I would call apex communicators.
00:18:28
Speaker
ah And the reason I say that is we we are entering a time, this is not just the ag industry, this is across the board, where there is a lot of distraction and a lot of noise.
00:18:41
Speaker
So attention spans are decreasing. That's measured, by the way. that's not That's like a measured thing that people have less attention than they did 10 years ago. So people's attention span's shorter.
00:18:53
Speaker
the ah The way in which we get news and information is bifurcated now. we We have channels in which we get it. We don't hear from ah the other side as much. And so we are going to need leaders that are really adept at communicating, communicating vision,
00:19:09
Speaker
communicating realities, communicating information. and I think i think the the individuals that find ways to be really effective communicators are going to be successful because I think it's just going to be one of the most critical traits in a leader moving forward.
00:19:23
Speaker
Oh, that yeah. Fascinating. Okay. So if we think about someone trying to become an apex communicator, and I love that phrase. And what does that tangibly look like um to someone? Like, what are the skills that I need to be thinking about developing and growing?
00:19:40
Speaker
Actually, this one might sound counterintuitive, but the the best communicators are really effective listeners because the best communicators have a really good grasp of their audience. They're learners. their employees, however you want to frame it, but they have a really, really in-depth and maybe like almost um almost a unique ability to kind of anticipate and understand what those learners are thinking or what they're going through or what what their audience is thinking. And so a big part of it is is being a really good listener and being pretty empathetic so that you kind of know what it what it is they're looking for so that you can communicate it.
00:20:22
Speaker
I think the other thing is going to be to be very clear and not wishy-washy or blurry, especially I think there's some evidence or some research around this youngest generation youngest generation that's entering the workforce. And they really have zero tolerance for whitewashing something like, you know, pretending something's, you know, they they want you to tell the truth and they want you to be direct about it. So I think being really good listeners and being able to articulate the truth in a compelling and direct way is going to be really important in terms of communication and for leaders in the future.
00:21:00
Speaker
I agree with that. I think a lot of people just tell me the truth, like not all the rosy, sunshine, rainbows, unicorns. Like if it's bad, tell me it's bad. And too, I see it a lot in... ah Communication from leaders on where we're going and um a desire I think there's been in some organizations, whether you want to call it micromanagement or very when when you have a lot of expertise, which we do in agriculture, it may be a shift in some management styles to like let go or sit back or even trying to bring people into that vision building. But I've also noticed like, hey, some people just want to tell you where are we going and then I can help us get there.
00:21:37
Speaker
Exactly. And and actually, you you said something that maybe triggered back to your like, what does it tactically look like to be, you know, an apex communicator? um I think so. one of the One of the phrases that's just really stuck with me that is is part of, like you know, learning design, actually, is that we are feeling creatures that think not the other way around.
00:21:59
Speaker
So we need we need people to touch our limbic brain when they're communicating to us. We need we are um we can rationalize things, but if you but if you want if you want us to be motivated, if you want reaction, you have to touch into that limbic brain, that that emotional part of the brain. Or we feel something. And I think that might even be more important because we live in an information. I mean, we have so much knowledge at our fingertips, but we want to feel something. And I think the people that another attribute, I think, to being a really effective communicator as a leader are the leaders that are going to be able.
00:22:32
Speaker
again, because they know their audience really well and they've been really thoughtful about it and they're telling the truth and they've earned trust, they can are going to be the ones that are able to reach in and and touch an emotion and then connect that back that emotion back to what needs to happen. So, ah you know, we need to focus or we need to change our strategy. Or we need to buckle up and be ready for a bumpy ride. like But there needs to be the touch of the emotion before we rationalize our five-point strategic plan or whatever.
00:22:59
Speaker
The communicators that can touch that emotion are going to be really effective. And the organizations they lead are going to benefit from their leadership. Yeah. As someone who works in learning design with a lot of organizations, do you have an example of of how to do that in like touch on the the limbic brain and the emotional side while also communicating the information? Like if I'm someone listening and I'm putting together a presentation or I have to communicate to my team hard news or, you know, I'm trying to get the team rallied around change that no one wants to do.
00:23:29
Speaker
What are some examples of ways I can actually apply that? Yeah, so I mentioned earlier about really understanding your audience and there's just no, there's no way around that. Like, so really key is just taking time to really study who is it that I'm talking to? What do they care about? What's on their mind? What are they nervous about? What excites them? It's like almost impossible to spend too much time analyzing who your audience is if you're wanting to like reach them emotionally. But I'm gonna, there's this tool, it's it's kind of a marketing tool, but it's got a long background and history to ah a guy named Joseph Campbell, but it's it's called the Hero's Journey.
00:24:04
Speaker
And have you ever heard of that? Nicole, the hero journey? Yes. Okay. I thought you nod. So here's how it apply it to learning design, being a good leader. So often like when you're a leader, like you're not the hero, the audience is the hero. So if you want to reach them emotionally, the goal is is to spark in them what the heroes, you know, all the the hero's journey is like, they need to see themselves in the hero that you're describing. So when you describe the future state that we've overcome this challenge, they need to see themselves as being the ones that have overcome that challenge. or
00:24:36
Speaker
Or when you're describing the future state of, hey, this next two years is going to be hard with the commodity prices the way they are, but we're gonna this is where we're gonna this is how we're going get past it. They need to be able to see themselves as the ones that are helping solve that problem. that they need to be to see if they see themselves as the hero, it touches them emotionally.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yes. So i use the hero's journey from a marketing standpoint in that your business is or your brand or your product is never the hero. The customer is the hero. Exactly. And you are the guide. And so like the customer is, um you know, like Katniss in the Hunger Games and you are honestly Haymitch. Like being that role, ah whether you're in marketing or or trying to lead a team, I think helps in and And I think it's hard in leadership, too, because you want to be the one that alleviates pain from other people. But if they can't if they can't see themselves on the journey of overcoming the thing, then it's it's not a hero's journey. It's a you pulling people along.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think you're not really, you know, you're not really leading people at that point. You're directing them. But to lead people means that you get the benefit of their motivation, of their buy-in, of their creativity, of their willingness to do things. And you cannot force people to be creative. You cannot force them to to do amazing things. You might be able to force them to do to to do small things or force them to do exactly what you tell them. ah but But when you're really leading, you've empowered them to to chart their own path that goes along with the shared vision.
00:26:12
Speaker
And that the hero journey is a great, just how you described it. You're the guide. They're the hero. That that is just so powerful to be able to unlock so many so many others to join you on that journey.
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah. And I think leadership often comes with a ah pressure and there's privilege and pressure, but it's also sometimes a burden and knowing that like, if you are directing, then all of the pressure and all of the burden is on you. But if you're guiding, then it's a shared carrying of all of it. That's to me how you get like two plus two to equal six instead of just four kind of thing.
00:26:49
Speaker
Yes. I couldn't agree more. So the other thing you talked about that the leaders of the future will need is adaptability. One, I'm curious from your own leadership journey, how are you someone you would describe as an adaptable leader? Is that a skill that you've had to build over um your own personal journey?
00:27:05
Speaker
I've had to, yes, for sure had to build it. I don't know if it's a situation where I, I don't, I think, i yeah, I think I, it was through the trial by fire, School of R Knox. I've talked about international work earlier.
00:27:18
Speaker
i was helping launch a brand new organization called AgriCorps. AgriCorps still around today, but it was kind of a Peace Corps style organization. And we got a group of fellows to go overseas. They were going spend a year overseas in Liberia.
00:27:30
Speaker
And we recruit, I spent a year recruiting them, we got them ready to go, training was set, and then two weeks before we were to arrive in Liberia, I was already there in Liberia, but two weeks before they were to arrive, ah there was the Ebola epidemic broke out in Liberia.
00:27:43
Speaker
and And all of the State Department, all the US officials evacuated, and so I had to evacuate and I went to Ghana, and we reached out to these fellows who prepared for six months to go to Liberia, and said, we can't go to Liberia. I've never been to Ghana, but I know someone there would you be willing to pivot this program in two weeks to Ghana?
00:28:03
Speaker
And they all all of them said yes. So and in two weeks, we found housing for them and did all this stuff. I have other examples, but like I look back on that I'm like, that was a moment that really probably tested my ability to be ah adaptive more than just about any other I can think of.
00:28:20
Speaker
I've thought of this phrase, we make the road by walking. Like, I don't know that you can, you can do things to prepare to be better. you You can work on skills to be better at adaptive leadership. I think there's things you can do to prepare for change. But I honestly think you get better at being an adaptive leader by putting yourself in situations where it requires it It's a muscle.
00:28:42
Speaker
Yes, yes, absolutely it is. You have incredible stories. ah That one gave me chills too. To that point, what would you recommend for someone who maybe struggles with change or stepping outside of their comfort zone?
00:28:58
Speaker
I totally agree with you. Adaptability is something that you get more comfortable with the more you have... jumped off the deep end um or been pushed, honestly. um But I also, i try to balance that myself with, Ms. Savannah's heard me say this several times, where I don't like to baptism by fire people unless ah unless it's unavoidable. I think there's a lot you can learn when you push yourself off off the deep end. But for anyone who's maybe scared to jump or maybe struggles with that, or maybe for a leader like me who
00:29:29
Speaker
potentially protects their team too much from some of that. What what advice would you share to to grow the ability to be adaptable when the situation needs it?
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah, well, i i I, you know, the example I used was when there was an external force that kind of was thrust upon us. All of us, of course, face this with COVID. um But if I, you know, to as I hear your question, I'm thinking about, okay, what about, what does this look like when it's not necessarily this painful external force where like, oh my gosh, you can't believe this is happening. what are we going to do?
00:30:00
Speaker
And I think that there are ways in which you can work on the muscle of adaptability without it being painful or without there being some sort of like crazy external force thrust upon you. Some ways that I have seen leaders do a really great job with this is leaders that ask, that continually ask tough questions of themselves and of their team, not like ones that are dangerous or ones that um are are extremely uncomfortable. But what I mean is just like, are we doing, like continually ask, are we doing the right things? Are there ways we could do this better? ah
00:30:33
Speaker
and And teams that have that have built a relationship and a trust to a degree where they can have a lot of candor, I think if you can combine those things where you're asking challenging questions, you've got a lot of trust amongst the team, and you've created a space where there's a lot of candor and people speak openly and freely, like you ah you have prepared yourself to be pretty adaptive. because you can You can anticipate changes earlier because you're asking really tough questions. You're willing to change because you're able to talk through the things you're worried about with change, the the things that concern you, the things that excite you.
00:31:08
Speaker
And you trust your team, you're not doing it alone, to go through that change together. So I think those are some of the some of the muscles that you can you can exercise all the time or consistently and that prepares you to be better when when you need to change.
00:31:25
Speaker
What if you are either a new leader or a leader that hasn't had the time to build some of that trust and you're having to lead through change? So like say I'm a leader that's walked into an organization. I've been hired to lead a change in the organization and it's got a timeline that has got to be accomplished by someone. But I have people who are resistant, not adaptive.
00:31:48
Speaker
Any tips for leading through that kind of scenario or how you move to adaptability on a faster timeline than sometimes trust is like trust takes time and investment and, you know, time together and or maybe what I'm asking is like, is there a hack to speed up trust?
00:32:05
Speaker
I'm glad that you've kind of followed up with the second part because my my first answer, you know my initial answer to your question was going to be, if you don't have time to build trust, then then um what what are you trying to change or what's the impetus? Because i think you I think that there is time to build trust. You have to make it, but there is time to build trust. And so and honestly, the the trick is I don't know that there's a hack.
00:32:31
Speaker
um I wish there was. I wish there was a simple answer. I think you can do things that look like like you're building trust. You can create some, there's some hacks that are performative. But again, we mentioned this earlier. I think i think we've got people now, a generation that's entering the workforce and many of us now that we can we can smell out something that's performative and not real.
00:32:52
Speaker
And so i I think you probably put yourself as a leader at more danger by trying to rapidly rush through trust or rapidly build trust when it's not really real. you You might be putting yourself and your team in more danger than being honest about, we're gonna have to go through this hard thing and I know I'm new.
00:33:09
Speaker
And i haven't really given you a reason to trust me yet. So I'm going to earn that every day and I'm going to do it in these ways. I think that kind of transparency, um I think if you're a brand new leader and you're thrust into a situation, you've been hired and you're like, we hired you to bring about this change.
00:33:25
Speaker
I think clearly communic you know clearly communicating it, being honest and up forthright with you with the people that you're making the change for is really important. and then If I could give one maybe tip, it's not a hack, but it was something insightful for me. i heard someone say once that people are not afraid of change.
00:33:44
Speaker
They're afraid of loss. And every change... Like every almost every time there is change, there's inevitably loss. And so as a leader, making space to allow people that are going to suffer that loss to name it, to speak candidly about how what that loss means to them and to recognize it mourn it even, and then you can move on.
00:34:10
Speaker
If you don't, six months later, they're still grieving the loss because you never gave them the chance to name it. and that's And then they get labeled as people that were not you know they weren't willing to move on. And I think I could say their critique of the leader might be, yeah, but our leader pretended that there was nothing lost here when there was. Yeah. And then sometimes you lose those people in the evolution of it too.
00:34:32
Speaker
Yeah. It's amazing what you can do if you if people feel heard. Like they just want to know that, hey, I want to name that this change impacts me this way. And I want a moment. I just want to know that you know that or I want a moment to be recognized for that.
00:34:47
Speaker
um I think that goes a long way in building trust. Yeah, absolutely. Like one being heard and then also valued and appreciated of like, yeah, you bring to the table.
00:34:58
Speaker
And it it creates a moment of honesty. We're not going to pretend that there's not loss here. You know a lot of times organizations, they kind of really only talk about all the positives about the change. And they just were like, we're not going to focus on any neck. We're not even acknowledge the negatives. And I just don't know that, i mean, maybe if it's small changes, or but I just, if it's a big change and you don't want acknowledge any of the loss that's occurred.
00:35:20
Speaker
um I think it might be hard for people to say they really trust you because they don't feel like you really understood them. Yeah. I think that's true. Even if the loss is good, like you can see that like that needed to happen. We needed to leave that behind or, you know, we lost a leader who moved on into something great. But if you don't acknowledge it, uh,
00:35:39
Speaker
yeah, it can feel, it can make the workplace feel less human too. And it's full of, what did you say? ah Feeling, what are we feeling beings who think? Yeah.
00:35:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We're feeling creatures who think. Yeah. Yeah. Well, ah so to kind of some of the things that you have laid out, Blaze, it,
00:36:04
Speaker
Some of this leadership stuff sounds very simple. um And just, yes, do these things. it's or Here's what it practically sounds like, whether it's being a good communicator or you know asking good questions.
00:36:20
Speaker
As someone who has worked in leadership development for a lot of your career, why do we still get it wrong so many times if it seems so simple? um Well, because it's not really simple.
00:36:31
Speaker
ah it it We want to simplify because we want to codify the process. But leadership is a it's ah it's a people process. It's not a not a tech technological process. you know In science or in experiments, we are trying to constantly find like replicable things. like How do we do this? And we do it in such a way that we can replicate it.
00:36:53
Speaker
And it's almost... It's like impossible to even replicate things, even as a leader. So the same leader can do something with one team and then try to give the second team and cannot replicate it because people are different.
00:37:05
Speaker
One is I think it's not simple. I think that we we want to simplify it because we want to codify. And and it's helpful sometimes to break things down so that people can learn them or try them or. or people like frameworks and models because they're helpful tools. But yeah, in real life, you're dealing with you're dealing with real people and people act in unexpected ways.
00:37:27
Speaker
um So yeah, I think the maybe the best way I could put it is i I think if anytime someone's looking for a shortcut or a hack for leadership, um they can They can maybe mimic what it what leadership looks like, but it's not real leadership. Real leadership is, it's not easy.
00:37:44
Speaker
It's tough. It takes work. And I, at least in my experience, I've never found any any shortcuts that are really valuable. Yeah. I'm glad that you put it that way because I think it also makes... When you struggle with leadership, whether it's in your own growth or journey or in leading a team or an organization, when you put it that way, like the struggle is part of leadership and it makes the struggle piece feel normal.
00:38:11
Speaker
Like that's part of it and it's meant to be part of it. Yeah. um Yes. And it's interesting. Like, I, one of the things that I think I used to kind of believe about leadership was that, that there was like a, like I needed to learn the process. I needed to go through it, learn the steps, and then I would become this leader. And then once you became one, then you were a leader and it was done. And I now know that is no, that is not true. ah That, that,
00:38:37
Speaker
that it That it's really a journey more than it is a destination. And one of the the the signals or one of the, I think, telling things about that is the best leaders continue to learn to be better leaders.
00:38:51
Speaker
And so I just don't think you arrive. I think it's a journey. What is your ah favorite way to learn yourself? Or what is what is something you are working on learning right now in your leadership journey?
00:39:04
Speaker
ah Well, so right now I'm working on getting a professional coaching certification. And it's it's ah it's awesome. I really love the program that I'm in. I'm about halfway into it right now. And it's it's a lot of fun. So i I like picking up on challenging things. But one of the kind of universal tools...
00:39:23
Speaker
for me at least, is making time for reflection. um we i man and and there's And there have been times my life where I have not done that and I really regret it because a learning moment doesn't become full circle until we take time to reflect on it. And so I've found myself in places where I'm doing a bunch of stuff and I'm just assuming, like, because I'm doing all this, I'm learning something.
00:39:44
Speaker
But if I haven't taken time to actually reflect on it, that can be journaling, it can be talking to someone. But if I haven't taken time to process it, then it's like I'm doing a bunch of actions, but I'm not really learning from them.
00:39:57
Speaker
And so that has been a not something I do well all the time, but i'm I constantly try to try to remind myself that like you just went through a cool experience or a challenging experience or whatever it may be. It may carve out some time to reflect on it, talk to somebody about it, journal about it, whatever. But but take some time to reflect on it. Otherwise, the learning is not complete.
00:40:18
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I love that you put it that way, that like without reflection, the learning isn't complete. ah Because this, ah I'm going to say practice of reflection is also something that's come up across many of the conversations we've had with leaders on this podcast and the different ways that they reflect and the power of reflection. And i will just share vulnerably that as someone who likes to move fast, sometimes I am good at skipping that part or feeling like it's taking up too much time. I like to reflect, but um sometimes I can feel like, man, I just spent a lot of time sitting there and thinking about this. But honestly, what you just did for me was reframe it as productive time, like truly sitting back, reflecting, whether it's journaling or talking with someone about an experience or even just going on a walk and thinking through things like that's part of the learning process. And if you haven't done that, you haven't learned, which
00:41:13
Speaker
just you know helped my brain and like check the box it's not done until you've done this part yeah yeah i get what you're saying that sometimes it feels like well that's not productive doing is is productive but um yeah i it's kind of like any experiment you know there's a moment for analysis if you don't do it why'd you do you know why you can't just experiment with no analysis you would never learn anything and i think the same is true with with experiences And I think too, it's something that's hard to make time for as a leader of a team to either coach into the team members that you're leading or even to um like you get done with a big event or your team just gets done with a big quarter or whatever it may be to actually sit back and either do a postmortem or reflect on what went well and what didn't go well. Sometimes it's so easy to just move on to the next thing because we have another thing coming.
00:42:01
Speaker
Yeah, so I mentioned you know at the very very beginning that I did some work, consulting work with the Army, with the US Army. They have a process, I had never seen it until i until I experienced it and I've loved it and brought it up on teams that I've been on since then. But they have this thing, this process where they call an after action review. So every time they do something really big, they have an after action review. And at least the the way it was done for us was we would do a ah session on sustain and improve every day. I mean, at the end of every day. um And it was very simple, sustained. What did we do today that we wanted to make sure we replicate tomorrow and then improve what what are the changes they want to make? And I have found that it's so simple, but like what a powerful tool for a team to use. Maybe not every day, but you finish an event, you you do like being able to just have that quick moment of what did we learn here? what what What are we doing really well we need to keep doing and then what do we need to change?
00:42:54
Speaker
So it's just simple but powerful tool. Yeah, I like that. It's awesome. Okay, Blades, let's move into the rapid fire segment. i'm going to ask you some quick hit questions and as best as you can, short answers only.
00:43:09
Speaker
Okay, I'll try my very best. I'm a bit long-winded. I also am bad at this because I tend to ask follow-up questions. Okay, so what is your favorite question to disrupt status quo thinking? Think of the most creative person that you know.
00:43:26
Speaker
What would they do differently than you are right now? Or an alternative version of that is think of an organization or competitor that's really creative. How would they do this differently? Ooh, I like that.
00:43:36
Speaker
Totally changes your mindset. ah What is one thing you wish leaders in agriculture would stop overthinking? Leaders in general, i would say stop thinking that others are thinking about you.
00:43:48
Speaker
think we get really worked up over, oh my gosh, what are they? Are mad at me? Did they say? Most of the time, people are not thinking about you. It's our little pickle trick our ego plays. That's good advice. Good reminder. ah What is the belief about leadership that you think it's time to retire?
00:44:04
Speaker
We talked about this briefly earlier, but that there are shortcuts or hacks, that there's the three steps to do this or do these things and you can have a perfect team meeting. Those are good, helpful tips and tools, but there is just no shortcut to good leadership.
00:44:17
Speaker
What is a book that changed the way you lead? Or it could be another leadership tool, but I'm a reader, so I like to ask people about books. There's this book by Simon Sinek called The Infinite Game. Have you heard of it?
00:44:28
Speaker
Yes. and i it's on my It's on my TBR. I have not read it, but yes. i I found that one really, really powerful. And the shift of how we view things as finite games where there's winners and losers and set rules, but that most most of leadership most of um yeah most of leadership is not a finite game. There's multiple winners and the rules are flexible. And the goal is not to win. The goal is to play to keep playing.
00:44:53
Speaker
And it's a complete mindset shift. That's awesome. Okay. I'm going to move that one up on my TBR. It sounds great. What is a leadership hill you're willing to die on? The cornerstones of trust and integrity still matter to be a good leader.
00:45:07
Speaker
you can You can call yourself a leader and you can coerce people to do things, or you may even have followers, but leaders that do not have integrity, they they bring about bad results in the long run. So I just think integrity and and honesty matter.
00:45:24
Speaker
Yeah. Amen. that's a That's a hill worthy of dying on. Yes. For sure. Yes. Okay. And what is something you believed about leadership 10 years ago that you now think is wrong? you know I mentioned this earlier that I used to believe it was ah i used to believe leadership was like a destiny. You became a leader and then once you were a leader, that was that was set. And now I just don't think it's that way. I think it's ah it's a continual process, a continual learning process where, again, because we mentioned this earlier, there's no simple solution to leadership. So it's a journey, not a not a destination.
00:45:58
Speaker
Okay. And at AFA, we ah we love hot takes. We love bold opinions, unconventional thoughts. So I am curious, Blaze, and this is no longer rapid fire. You can expand on this as much as you want. ah What is an unconventional or bold take you either have about leadership or the future of agriculture?
00:46:17
Speaker
um i have a I have an unconventional take about leadership. um LinkedIn leadership is not leadership. um And I'll ah i'll explain.
00:46:30
Speaker
But I think we have entered a phase in the last several years due to social media and technology where... It is really easy to project, that's performative leadership, it's to project I'm a leader to the outside world because that's easier than actually being a really good leader. Being a really good leader is hard.
00:46:50
Speaker
It's difficult, it's challenging, but but being one on social media and looking like a leader is easier. And so so I would say that that having like a really slick LinkedIn profile and having a lot of, not that there's anything wrong with that, but having those things is neither necessary nor sufficient to being a good leader. There are many amazing leaders out there.
00:47:12
Speaker
who are unspoken heroes. They are not, like you cannot find them online, but they are doing an amazing job because it's not necessary to project yourself as ah as a leader to be one. And there are many folks out there that I think project themselves to be amazing leaders, but if you talk to the teams they're leading, they're struggling. So it's also not sufficient.
00:47:29
Speaker
so it's So LinkedIn leadership is not necessary, nor is it sufficient. That's my that's my hot take. i love that hot take. I think it's one more of us could hear both from an encouragement standpoint of, you know, looking at people who are are doing that kind of work and sometimes being like, oh, should I be, should i like find a way to fit that into my life? And also just ah reminder that not everything thing you see online is real. And some of the, like real leadership happens people to people, not necessarily on LinkedIn. Yes.
00:48:00
Speaker
Maybe just to like add a little bit on there. I i love asking people questions like, you know, well, who's the best boss you ever had or best leader of you ever had, you know? And one of the things that I, that comes up a lot is people will say,
00:48:11
Speaker
you know, I had this one boss that said all the right things and like outwardly people like just would, you would think would be a good leader, but like just didn't, i don't think cared about me. Didn't, didn't really lead our team well. And on the other hand, they'll say, you know, I had someone, they didn't always say the right thing. They weren't the most polished, but man, like I would love to work for them again.
00:48:31
Speaker
And so I just, it just reminds me that's, that's one of the reasons why I think I brought up that, that hot take is that there's some really amazing leaders out there that, may not look like it, you know, don't judge a book by its cover. It may not look like it on the outside, but they really are.
00:48:44
Speaker
Such a great reminder for all of us. Well, Blaze, this conversation has been so fun. You have incredible stories, and I am so glad we had you on the podcast because not only did I get to learn from you, but I know our listeners will absolutely enjoy this as well. ah At AFA, we're all about building bridges. So where can people connect with you and learn more about you and the work that's happening at five a Nicole, do you want to do you want to hear some hypocrisy and something ironic?
00:49:10
Speaker
The place to find me is on LinkedIn. You do have a good LinkedIn presence and you do write some really good articles. So I think anyone who's listened to this is not performative. yeah That is just too funny, the timing. But honestly, that is probably the best place. The other thing, yes, I i like to publish.
00:49:31
Speaker
I like to think and write about leadership. So publish some things there. You can find them on Medium. And then the other thing is like Viveic, we we call we call leaders agenda movers. It's our term internally. And so if you go to the website, viveic.com, we have some some materials and some resources for agenda movers that I would encourage folks to check out.
00:49:49
Speaker
Awesome. Well, I will be going to check those out as well and encourage anyone to go find Blaze on LinkedIn or um check out vi egg Blaze, this has been so wonderful. Thank you so much for being a guest on the Cultivating Leaders podcast.
00:50:01
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Cultivating Leaders podcast brought to you by Agriculture Future of America. if you've been here before, you know we value feedback as a gift. Please leave us a review and let us know how we're doing.