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Leading from the Inside Out with Jackie Applegate
53 Plays9 days ago
Great leaders don’t just drive results. They build environments where people thrive, embrace change and foster growth.
Jackie Applegate, incoming Chief Executive Officer of PBI Gordon, joins The Cultivating Leaders Podcast to explore what true organizational health looks like in action. With more than 30 years of experience in agriculture and leadership, Jackie has built a career rooted in resilience and people development.
Jackie gets real about:
- Empowering organizational health: leading with culture, clarity, trust and team morale top of mind
- Leading through change: building cohesive teams that embrace and encourage organizational change
- Embracing a career journey: navigating a career from scientist to CEO and leading different business divisions
This conversation will challenge how you think about culture, communication and change.
Want to hear more from Jackie? Check out her blog here!
Connect with Jackie
- Connect on LinkedIn
- PBI Gordon on LinkedIn
- Visit their website
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- Follow us on LinkedIn
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- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on TikTok
- Visit our Website
About The Cultivating Leaders Podcast
Real stories. Practical advice. Tangible growth. Join The Cultivating Leaders Podcast, brought to you by Agriculture Future of America, as we explore what it takes to lead in food, agriculture, and beyond. Whether you’re just starting out or leading at the highest level, this podcast is your go-to resource for leadership that matters. Listen now and start cultivating your leadership journey.
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Transcript
Organizational Health: Smart vs. Healthy
00:00:01
Speaker
And when I talk about organizational health, you have to look at a business in two ways. You have what I call the smart and the healthy elements of the business. Smart parts are all the things that you typically think about. It's the hard core, the products, the nuts and the bolts of how you do business. Then there's what I call the healthy side of the business.
00:00:25
Speaker
And that's the whole element that deals with the organization, the culture and you have really high productivity because everybody knows where they need to go.
00:00:37
Speaker
It is those elements of culture, but it's more than that.
Introduction to Cultivating Leaders Podcast
00:00:48
Speaker
Welcome to the Cultivating Leaders podcast, where we get inside the minds of leaders to harvest great ideas and lessons that help you grow as a difference maker in food and agriculture. I'm your host and curiosity captain, Nicole Ersig.
00:01:01
Speaker
I am so excited for today's guest, friends. She is a powerhouse full of energy and great ideas. She's a strategic mastermind when it comes to organizational health and investing in people.
Jackie Applegate's Career Journey
00:01:12
Speaker
Jackie Applegate is the COO, soon to be CEO as of November 1st, at PBI Gordon, a company dedicated to providing innovative solutions in the professional turf and ornamental industry and the animal pharmaceutical industry.
00:01:26
Speaker
Prior to her current position, Jackie spent 30 years at Bear Crop Science, starting her career as the only female chemist, all the way to serving as the president of Bear Crop Science for North America. Jackie is widely recognized for her ability to build healthy, high-performing teams by aligning culture, people, and strategy.
00:01:44
Speaker
Jackie, welcome to the pod. What did I miss from your bio? Well, um I ah grew up in a really small town in Union, Ohio, surrounded by corn and soy.
00:01:55
Speaker
um And I've always had a passion overall for the agricultural industry. I've got a lot of personal friends who in farming. i think it's something that's near and dear to my heart. And I still, my family still lives in that very rural town now of a whopping 7,000 people.
00:02:10
Speaker
And yeah, so that's about it. I did not know you were from Ohio. I live in Ohio. Oh, okay, Nicole. That's good to know. have to tell me where later. Okay, Jackie. So I want to start a little bit with your career journey just because i am curious. How does someone start out as a true chemist, scientist, and and get to where you are today?
00:02:33
Speaker
Yeah. No, it's a great question. As a kid growing up, always had a passion for science and things like that. And I went on to get my um degree in chemistry and biology and And then I moved on to get my PhD in organic chemistry.
00:02:51
Speaker
And it's kind of interesting because my career, I started out working in the manufacturing side at Bayer. So I first started in Kansas City and Bayer. I was working more on the manufacturing side of the company where I was using all the science and the chemistry. I worked in process development. I worked on new ways to develop products.
00:03:10
Speaker
But about ah four years in, I asked the question to the company. I said, look, I said, you know, i want to do more than just be a chemist because I figured out we were business.
00:03:21
Speaker
And I was developing products for the agricultural sector. But as you, you know, you start out in your career, one of the most important things you do in your career is you network and you meet people and you learn how the business runs.
00:03:33
Speaker
And I figured out that I was working in one small sliver of an overall really global business. And there are so many decisions that go in to driving how you're going to get something from basic research where a chemist developed it.
00:03:48
Speaker
And a biologist looked at the efficacy all the way to a global market launch with global penetration. And so I asked, you know, like, well, I want a job like that where I can learn about how these things work.
00:04:00
Speaker
And that ah started my international career in Bayer. And then I went into global project management where i actually developed, you know, took things from research and i did all the marketing to help the team develop the regulatory dossier.
00:04:14
Speaker
And then actually also looked at the market penetration of the molecules I was working on. And that whole experience was probably one of the most valuable experiences of my life because it became ah multicultural, multi-geographic role.
00:04:32
Speaker
where i worked with people throughout the world and that led me then, um then, you know, I'm always one of these persons that's like, what's next? And it led me to basically then starting to develop businesses. And one of the best ah career advice that I can give to people here is, is that when you're in a position is to be asking yourself, where am I going in the next three to five years?
00:04:56
Speaker
And, and And I would also advise to have what I call the professional side and the personal side. Because when you're younger in life, you're developing just not your professional career, but your you're following your your what what you want to do with your life. If you've met a life partner, you want to get married, you want to have children.
00:05:18
Speaker
you know, where you want to live, what are your interests.
Planning Personal and Professional Growth
00:05:21
Speaker
So doing that whole kind of career projection and finding, and then if you have a life partner or you're married, um, you know, finding where they want to go, because then that allows you to develop overall your career. And I was very blessed that I had a partner.
00:05:36
Speaker
that was also interested in moving abroad and doing different things. And that's how I began to work in the business side. um So I went into the consumer based business, which was the Bear Advanced over the counter business.
00:05:51
Speaker
um And then I, ah from doing consumer, which is a whole different world of doing business, as you're working with ah retail, it's about shelf space. um You're working with really big businesses with the likes of Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot.
00:06:06
Speaker
But then you're blessed to work then with the independent retail garden center and the cooperatives like Ace True Value. So I started out um leading my first business 2007 in that arena.
00:06:19
Speaker
and that arena And then I went into the B2B, the professional business, which was and ornamental, pet global pest management, also vector control and things like that.
00:06:31
Speaker
And then I also jumped in um and then went back into the agricultural space. And my first job actually leading an agriculture ah business was in an Australia and New Zealand.
00:06:43
Speaker
you know, which was quite interesting. So the chance to learn different markets, work with different farmers around the world. ah and that was kind of how I got into the business side. So that's really kind of how I went from the science to the business side ah in the industry. And then in Bayer, I was very blessed because I bounced back in between the non-crop side of the business, which is a TNO public health side, um also worked, as I said, in the consumer side.
00:07:12
Speaker
And then I also, ah you know, went in and out of the ag side. And then I worked in the global vegetable seeds business, worked a lot in horticulture. So I just had a very rich career over 32 years where I was able to move up and take different size businesses.
Transition to PBI Gordon and Its Business Model
00:07:30
Speaker
And then in the end, when I retired from Bayer, I was managing Bayer's largest business in the world, which is a North American crop science business, which, you know, is, you know, crop protection chemicals, is also ah the seed business, and then is also our AI business with Climate FieldView.
00:07:49
Speaker
um You know, so we were selling all um of those ah inputs to ah farmers. That's amazing. So you said retired, and then you you couldn't stay out of the game, could you? You came back.
00:08:00
Speaker
Well, I'll be really honest with y'all. I thought I was going to retire and I really liked, I mean, it's funny. You know, like when you work really hard your whole life and you go really, really fast and you're very busy.
00:08:13
Speaker
And I took off about four months and I actually, i have to say that. I did all kinds of crazy things like I redid my mother's garden. read i mean, I was doing so much stuff because I was just used to being busy and not just traveling, but when you have a job, you're mentally busy and you're interacting with people. And my um husband had passed away some years earlier, over 10 years plus ago.
00:08:37
Speaker
i was on my own and my son's in college. And as my son said, mom, you're calling me a lot. You know, he's like, I'm doing really well. I'm good. I've heard from you a lot. You know, I talk to you once a week.
00:08:50
Speaker
I'd be like, hey, how's your day been? You know, my parents were like, you know, you need to find something to do. You know, and I was only 58 and I actually chose to retire. And i was being contacted by many people in the industry and was looking at different opportunities. And then I got a call from Don Chu, um who is the chairman of PBI Gordon.
00:09:09
Speaker
He asked me to come for lunch and I have to say it was interesting because PBI Gordon is an employee owned company. I had always worked in a very large publicly traded company and you know, it's a very different company in the sense that it is a hundred percent employee owned.
00:09:27
Speaker
So we're having an impact every day. Also, um, At that time, we had about 500, let's say maybe 20 people in the company overall.
00:09:39
Speaker
And he said, look, I'm looking for a COO. He says, and I need somebody that knows the industry well. We're both in turf and ornamental and animal health, chronic niche pharmaceutical, and also we do nutritional supplements on the OTC. So once again, that consumer base over the counter, where in the PetSmart's, the Petco's, the Walmart's, tractor supply.
00:10:00
Speaker
um And then at the same time, ah the turf and ornamental business, which is, you know, the standard non-crop business I've known my whole life. And then to walk into the animal health chronic niche, we do urinary incontinence. We also do anxiety. We created those categories ah in the pet animal health space.
00:10:21
Speaker
And now um we just have made an acquisition, which is one of the reasons that Don hired me was to grow the business. So we had acquired now Trivium Vets. um And we just launched out of their portfolio, Felicin CA1, which is a very unique and the first of its kind product ah to treat hyper cardiomyopathy in cats.
00:10:43
Speaker
um And we have a whole pipeline there. So Don asked me, would you be interested to come in help us grow the business? And it was employee owned. Being a small company, they really care about their employees and their families and It was something that was so different.
00:11:01
Speaker
And I thought, you know what? One of the most favorite things I did and Bear was when I ran some of Bear's smallest businesses. You know, if there's a uniqueness to how you bring the team together and how you drive and grow the business. and And it's just a lot of fun to work in a smaller organization.
00:11:19
Speaker
And when I retired from Bear, I had 11,000 employees, 100 plants under, you know, people that reported to me. um So, you know, I went from something really, really large to something that is just really small. And you can see the impact you're having every day on how you touch the people, how you touch our customers.
00:11:39
Speaker
and the unique differentiated innovation that we're bringing to the market. And it's a fully integrated business. So all of the businesses have R&D all the way through manufacturing. We also are a contract manufacturer for the industries that we play in. So it's a fully integrated business. So you get to also touch all aspects of the company.
00:12:01
Speaker
So that's how I got to PBI Corp. And I've been here in, um, and I'll be the CEO of effective on the first of November. So they asked me couple months ago if I was interested in being the CEO. So I've got big shoes to fill. Steve Clifford will be retiring at the end of October and he is, ah you know, doubled the size of the business, added 50% more people and has grown the business and built a really solid foundation that I'll be able to build on. And i already contributed in the 14 months I'm here leading the acquisition.
00:12:35
Speaker
ah drew ah drove the overall strategic reviews for all the businesses of where we wanted to go and where we want to grow. um Yeah, so it's really, really exciting to have this opportunity. It sounds exciting. I think that is not the conventional person's retirement plan, but it seems very fitting of you and your personality.
00:12:53
Speaker
Based on what you've shared about your career, I think for me, there are so many questions that come to mind of things that I know our listeners can
Defining Organizational Health
00:12:59
Speaker
learn from you. But let's start with organizational health. And as someone who has led big teams, small teams at that high macro level, lots of leaders talk about culture, but I think organizational health probably goes beyond that.
00:13:14
Speaker
How would you define organizational health? Yeah, um organizational health is really essential to drive culture and to drive business. And when I talk about organizational health, you have to look at a business in two ways. You have what I call the smart and the healthy elements of the business.
00:13:37
Speaker
Smart parts are all the things that you typically think about. It's the strategy, it's the marketing, it's the finance, it's the technology. um You know, it's the hardcore, core ah products, the the nuts and the bolts of how you do business. That's the smart part of the organization.
00:13:55
Speaker
It's those technical competencies that you want in people that are going to drive the success of the business. Then there's what I call the healthy side of the business. And that's the whole element that deals with the organization, the culture.
00:14:12
Speaker
You want to drive an organization where you got minimum politics, clarity, no confusion. You drive really high morale, high performance, and you have really high productivity because everybody knows where they need to go. And it's also key element of your overall attraction of talent, your retention of talent.
00:14:41
Speaker
And so it is those elements of culture, but it's more than that. Because often in culture, people just focus on, you know, they'll they have all the buzzwords.
00:14:53
Speaker
ah you know, about this is what we stand for. You know, it's about integrity or whatever. And the values on the wall where people walk by and they read them. But this is really about getting to the heart of laying out the clear expectations. And I'm telling you, the healthy part, if you think about the time in organizations you spend,
00:15:15
Speaker
Leaders get very caught up in the smart part. Oh, yeah. That's what the met business metrics are typically based around, right? And all your business metrics, so your key performance indicators, your goals that you set, all the things is about measuring all the smart parts.
00:15:32
Speaker
But what you really got to be also good about is also driving the organizational cultural health elements that I talked about. and And I can talk in more detail, we can talk a little bit about how more you get into that.
00:15:48
Speaker
But you really need to spend the proportion of your time on the healthy side. And I always say that if you get the people part right, the foundation of laying out the vision, the purpose, you bring clarity, you bring bring the focus,
00:16:10
Speaker
clear of expectations of what you, how you want people to show up. um If you get that how right in the people, the what, the smart part will come.
00:16:22
Speaker
It will come. um And that's one of the things that I've always done in my career is really focus on the healthy side of the organization.
00:16:33
Speaker
Now, you know, when you're a new leader, that's something that you probably have less experience in. Yeah. Or even like, you may not feel like you have control over, right? Like if you're a middle manager listening, Jackie, like how can I contribute? Yeah.
00:16:47
Speaker
Right. And you ask yourself, you know, how, How do I contribute? Absolutely. And when you're a young leader, you're understanding who you are as a leader. And that is so important.
00:16:58
Speaker
So, you know, where I've gotten as a business leader, that was also an evolutionary journey of who Jackie is, you know, building my own self-awareness about who I am as a leader, what drives me, what do I value, um and ah that kind of self-awareness.
00:17:19
Speaker
does it stop It's a continuous learning journey throughout your entire career, but you get to a point when you become a leader of people and you're driving an organization, you you will begin to realize that also you have an impact as a leader in how you show up and what you set drives and influences the entire company.
00:17:45
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So Jackie, i I'm sure you had to learn some of these lessons the hard way. Are there any, i'm going to say horror stories or, hey, here's a painful thing that I had to experience to learn a lesson that that maybe you could could teach our listeners of, here's what maybe me not to do, and here's how I learned that when it comes to organizational health.
00:18:07
Speaker
You know, it's very interesting that when I am First came into my first job of leading a business.
Building a Cohesive Team Amid Challenges
00:18:17
Speaker
So I showed up in August and, um you know, I'm really excited.
00:18:25
Speaker
I got to move back to the States, you know, and I had been out 10 plus years. I had a young son. i was married, very happy, and we were coming back to the U.S. We were going to be close to family and friends again, and ah we moved to a really cool place in, you know, ah the Carolina, so we didn't go back to Kansas City. We went to the East Coast.
00:18:45
Speaker
ah because we just had bought some years before Ventus Crop Science. And so we had shifted our headquarters from the Midwest to the Northeast Corridor, where the chemical corridor sits today.
00:18:57
Speaker
And really excited. And my son was starting kindergarten. And, you know, I mean, that's like an exciting time your life. And I remember going to work and, you know, meeting the team and talking to people. And and the business was...
00:19:13
Speaker
kind in the red. i mean, we were growing and doing well, but we really weren't making the money we should be making ah for where we're in the business. So I felt like I was under a lot of pressure and you know, and you start working with your team and I really started to realize that there was maybe a little bit of dysfunction amongst the team.
00:19:34
Speaker
And one day after I'd been there probably about, you know, four weeks or so, my head of sales comes in and says, I really hate to do this to you.
00:19:46
Speaker
You seem like a nice lady. but When someone starts out a meeting and says, you seem like you're a nice lady. And you're like, I think I am You know, and it goes, but here's my letter of resignation.
00:20:00
Speaker
And I'm like, what? What you mean letter? Yeah, you know what? Things haven't been going well. And I started talking Syngenta and you know, yeah, I'm like, I'm leaving.
00:20:11
Speaker
And I'm like, who Okay. You know, and then two days later, the head of sales quits. um The regional, another regional head quits. And I'm thinking, hello, people. It's like September.
00:20:29
Speaker
We've got to close out year end. This is like, you've got to close the business. We're in trouble. It just, it was just chaos. And overnight, I became the head of sales.
00:20:43
Speaker
And actually, I had never led a sale. I mean, I never like did sales. mean, ladies, I started out as a scientist. I never, you know like you'll meet a CEO and they'll say, yeah, I started out, you know, and I was an inter-level sales manager.
00:20:58
Speaker
Then I quit, you know, and I'm like, and that's not her. I'm like, I started out in laboratory. You know, and next thing you know, I'm the head of sales. Another regional manager quits and I'm thinking, what is going on?
00:21:13
Speaker
And i had another leader in the team quit. And I'm like, and I like sit everybody down and I'm like, what the heck, what is going on here, people? Like, is it me?
00:21:25
Speaker
And, you know, and they said, well, you know, some of the people said, you're like super high energy and you're like talking to everybody about what we're going to do and how we're going to get it done. And he said, and they said, you know what?
00:21:38
Speaker
It was just like, you can actually be a little bit overwhelming. You know, because you're just, wow. And I am a ball of energy. I'm not, hey, look, I'm not changed. I'm a ball energy.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, you are. I enjoy it, Jackie. But, but, but I was like, it's like, it was a little intimidating. And people, you know, so somebody was already going to leave. And then somebody's like, I don't know, man, this lady's got really high expectations. She's talking about, you know, we're going to grow and go here. And, and, and I was like, well, okay.
00:22:09
Speaker
and And I said, okay, we got to get through this. I said, you've given me, you know, and I'm going to say something. Feedback is a gift. And this one will talk to you about feedback.
00:22:22
Speaker
You can choose to do something with it or you don't have to do anything with it.
00:22:29
Speaker
So that's what I always tell people. Feedback is a gift. When someone has the courage to give you feedback, you better self-reflect a bit. Reflect maybe on the situation. And I reflected on it and I thought, okay, you know, i had to hit the ground running. Okay, so I'm going to start this journey with my team.
00:22:51
Speaker
With my leadership team. So I really started working immediately on Building a cohesive leadership team.
00:23:03
Speaker
And we can talk a little bit through that, but that feedback. So, I mean, was it a horror story? I think it was a great lesson learned. I took that I lost some people.
00:23:16
Speaker
I wouldn't say that I'm taking 100% credit for pushing people out because I do think there was dysfunction also going on before I arrived, most definitely because the head of sales had already, before I even got there, was leaving.
00:23:31
Speaker
And that's why i was brought in was to bring in a new leadership, new culture, you know, work on the organization, take it out of the red into the black.
00:23:43
Speaker
At the same time, it was my first job running a business, right? So I... took the feedback and I began working with the team and i started reading a lot about organizational health, ah what we were doing. um I don't know you, Table Group, Patrick Lencioni, yeah, he, Lencioni was also working with Bear at that time.
00:24:08
Speaker
That was when his book, Five Dysfunctions of the Team came out and things like that. So I started my journey with my team with the five dysfunctions And if you think about, you know, where he went from the five dysfunctions, talking about anonymity of employees,
00:24:24
Speaker
and you talk about where they are today with the advantage, which really talks about organizational health. I've been very blessed in my career to work with a lot of different organizations, but the table group has definitely had an influence on me. And the first element was I worked on my team, which was the five dysfunctions um of a team.
00:24:46
Speaker
And we figured it out where we had some dysfunction, And we moved forward from there. Such a good book. If you're a listener and you know me, I believe leaders are readers and I love books. But if you haven't read Five Dysfunctions of a Team, it's interesting.
00:25:01
Speaker
It's a fable. So it reads like a story. It's a very good one to read. It's also sometimes painful because I don't know about you, Jackie. I know when I read it for the first time, I was like, oh, I can see myself. in some of these people at the table, and I don't necessarily love that.
00:25:15
Speaker
um So to that point, leading organizational change or trying to grow, ah it affects a lot more people than that leadership team at the top, obviously, right? So what would you say to someone who is maybe experiencing organizational change um trying to do big things but they're not in the room where those decisions are being made and those things are happening because I think that leads to a lot of like pushback on the change that's happening so I'm curious what you would say to someone who is he's maybe not in the room ah or hasn't been in the room where those conversations are had yeah that's a great question
00:25:52
Speaker
Actually, if you're doing it right, it shouldn't be an issue. and We can talk about how to do it right a bit in a little bit. But what I will share is the following. I think that one, it goes back to understanding who you are and your own self-awareness.
00:26:10
Speaker
There's something which is called the Bridges Transition Model. And I don't know if you've ever heard about this. If you're out there and you've never as leaders read about Bridges Transition, Bridges Transition Model also talks a lot about how you manage transition and how people go through transition.
00:26:28
Speaker
There's people out there that like when you talk about changing and the leaders and people start talking about what the difference are, you know, and it's like this, they're like going, whoa, you know, they're like, kind of like where I'm in.
00:26:43
Speaker
It's warm. It's fuzzy. I'm good. Yeah. And sometimes they're not even like, whoa, they're like, no. Well, can be a no. Absolutely. But, you know, like, let's just say they're hearing it and they're going, whoa, I'm not sure.
00:26:56
Speaker
You know, like you said, they dig their heels in and they're not going to go on the journey. There's others that go, okay, listen to you, hear you. Maybe going to meet you halfway.
00:27:09
Speaker
And then there's people that are like, whoa, change. Let's go. Let's go. I'm a, I like change. If you, I'm a go with the flow person. So if you can, if you tell me, you know, we're going to do something, I'm thinking about, okay, how am going to get there? What am going to do?
00:27:28
Speaker
So what I would say to the individual is when an organization is going through things, ask yourself, how am I going to show up make a conscious decision they be part of the positive.
00:27:47
Speaker
And if you can engage and and look, change look, no matter even if you're like, woo, I like change, you know, you' there's going to be things you hear that you're going to self-reflect. But if you can find ways to engage and be part of the movement, the part to do something different,
00:28:10
Speaker
you will find that it's a much better experience and be open to learning. um Ask questions when you don't, when you have concerns in a constructive way, point that out.
00:28:28
Speaker
It'll be a much better experience for you. Often those that dig in, They become what I call the energy vampires. I don't know if you've ah read of any John Gordon's books, right?
00:28:42
Speaker
And John Gordon talks about like, you know, when you're on a school bus, right? And there's people that sit in the front of the bus and they're like, woo, let's go. And there's the people that are energy vampires, you know, that are like sitting towards the back of the bus and they're always saying the negative things and they're always talking about stuff.
00:29:02
Speaker
And there comes a time where you're going to say to them and give them a hard look and say, are you with us? Are you on our bus? And are you going to on this journey? If not, I'm opening up the back door and you need to step off the bus.
00:29:13
Speaker
Right. That is also okay. If you are an individual and you choose to step off that bus, but you need to, you know, because maybe there's a place that's,
00:29:27
Speaker
better for you. And I've always said that in change, if when I've had people or I've sat down people and I've said, you know what, I don't think this going very well. You're not really happy. You're not buying in How can I help you get somewhere else where you're going to be happy?
00:29:42
Speaker
So I think that and for, you know, going back to your point about who you're not, the people in the room, maybe middle management, C-suite, whatever, is how, what do you do It's really about being open to engaging, to learning, but asking the right questions.
00:30:02
Speaker
But you have to, as an individual, decide, am i in here for the long haul and I'm going to go on the journey or I need to step away? Both can be right.
00:30:17
Speaker
It's about the individual. But that goes back to knowing yourself and what do you value. Yeah. Jackie, I'm curious for someone who might be in that position, and especially maybe someone who hasn't engaged with executives ah that much, you talked about if you have concerns, bring them up in a constructive way.
00:30:37
Speaker
if If I'm on your team, Jackie, and I don't like maybe a change you're making or or I feel like, hey, that we're going in a wrong direction, what's the best way for a talented person on your team to come and share feedback but in a constructive way?
00:30:52
Speaker
Right. Well, in my organizations, I always hold, you know, one, we do one-on-one and we do step meetings. So you go down a level.
00:31:03
Speaker
um One, they have their boss. So talk to your boss. If your boss doesn't have the right answers, ask your boss or go to your boss's boss. I mean, look.
00:31:15
Speaker
Okay, and I'm going to say this too. I am not very hireful. I talk to anybody. I mean, I'm all about my people. I mean, I like talk to everybody. I want to know what's going on, right?
00:31:26
Speaker
So I'm very approachable. Not all leaders are approachable. So you got to kind of understand the world you're in and the avenues of how your organization runs.
00:31:38
Speaker
But I would say ask intelligent questions. I'm going to tell you another thing that's a really good thing today. i mean, this what I think. Is, you know, a lot of times today when people do town halls, you have teams, right?
Communication and Feedback for Organizational Health
00:31:52
Speaker
and you have the chat function, right? Now some companies don't make chat anonymous. Other companies do make chat anonymous. But I mean, honestly, chat is like the best invention for those people that don't wanna stand up in a room or stand up and go, woo, like, hey, I got a question and I'm gonna talk in front whole company.
00:32:15
Speaker
I mean, there's people out there who don't wanna do that. So, you know, so today you have technology. So you can ask in a meeting, you can raise your hand and step up. and I always tell people, and this is something I'm going to share with you all.
00:32:32
Speaker
If you have this question in your head, There's probably at least 20 to 25% of the people that have the same question.
00:32:43
Speaker
So when you ask that question, there's going to be about 25% of the rumor that go, go April. Boy, she just asked that question. Well done, right? I mean, ah you might actually, by speaking up, identify people with a like mind in the sense that Well, maybe walk up to you and say, hey, I really appreciate you thought about this. And then you're creating a network where you can be talking together, working out. So being willing to step up. But at the same time, we've got email today.
00:33:15
Speaker
People send me emails all the time. And I'm the COO. We'll say, hey, Jackie, people did that all the time. Reaching out is is another way. And I think if you're a really good leader, you're going to take that seriously. That somebody is taking the effort to reach out and talk to you um is important. So there's so many avenues.
00:33:37
Speaker
um youre Your own line of leadership, um you know, departments normally have meetings. You have town hall meetings. And then today you have technology like you wouldn't believe to ah to reach out and to share your thoughts and opinion.
00:33:57
Speaker
I mean, look, I was saying to somebody the other day, you know, I started out in business where I was writing slides on acetates with a pen and we had did carbon copies when we took messages.
00:34:08
Speaker
And I remember when we got email and everything was done via letter, So business moved at a pace that was slower, right? And today everything's instantaneous.
00:34:21
Speaker
So that's what I would say to people is, you know, is step up, you know, share your thoughts. Because if you're not having those open conversations in an organization, that helps leadership um brings to them clarity of what they're not doing well or what points they're not getting across. And all good leaders want to be able If they're driving an overall change in agenda, they're going to want that feedback.
00:34:46
Speaker
Remember I said feedback's a gift. Thank you so much for that, Jackie. I think that provides a good example. and And what I hear you saying, too, is encouraging people to use their voices and speak up. I think a lot of times when you don't, especially when you initially have that question, it can start to fester.
00:35:02
Speaker
and build and build and that starts to erode organizational health especially if you're in that energy vampire group whether you want to be or know you are or not I think those people can be helpful of identifying you know obstacles or challenges that this change is going to provide or that kind of thing so I think being able to speak up and doing so respectfully no matter what avenue you choose can can actually help the organization you You said we could talk about this. so I want to know, how do you lead organizational change effectively?
00:35:32
Speaker
Like what's a good blueprint of what it looks like done well? Yeah. Well, the one thing I will tell you is it starts with building cohesive teams at all leadership levels.
00:35:45
Speaker
One of the things that I've discovered in organizational health, and I really want to stress this is, is that usually you can get the top layer of leadership cohesively going, Often even in change, people below, but sometimes middle management, and I call it the clay layer.
00:36:02
Speaker
And why I say that's clay, because, you know, it's kind of like soil. and Water doesn't move as fast through clay. That's why I call it the clay layer. You know, because once again, as you're driving change, it's about cascading and information flow.
00:36:16
Speaker
So the first thing is that with the leadership team, at the very top and the level below, which I consider to be like your leadership community. I drive an environment where you have your overall leadership and then you have that whole next layer of leaders leaders below, which I call my leadership community.
00:36:36
Speaker
What you need to do is develop an environment of what I call building trust or psychological safety. um So you're creating that environment where people are going to be open, share their perspectives and give opinions.
00:36:51
Speaker
You're really going to also want to build out what is your clarity around your vision. of your purpose, what are the things that the organization is really focusing on to drive growth.
00:37:05
Speaker
I'm going to tell you something, you've got to be so clear about what your goals are. You know, and sometimes you have your vision, you have your purpose, you know strategically where you want to go, which that is in that, you know, zero to five,
00:37:22
Speaker
you know, and then that five to 10 year horizon. But you've got to build out those milestones of what you've got to drive and really what are your kind of what I call and ah these kind of thematic goals.
00:37:35
Speaker
And your thematic goals through the year can change, but usually there are five or six big items that you're going to drive and then you have buckets underneath there.
00:37:45
Speaker
So building out with your leadership team and your leadership community of Where do we need to go and where do we need to drive and where do we need to focus?
00:37:57
Speaker
Because one of the most important things is creating that line of sight from the top of the organization to every employee in the organization of what are we focusing on, what are we going to drive, and how can you show up every day and have impact on the organization?
00:38:19
Speaker
So it really comes down to, you know, creating that clarity. So one, it's about building a cohesive leadership team. You trust each other. do you enjoy being together? Are you collaborative?
00:38:31
Speaker
How are you meeting and discussing? So cohesive leadership team. And I will share with you. I meet with my leadership team every day for 15 minutes for a lightning round in the morning.
00:38:44
Speaker
So every day for 15 minutes, I'm meeting with my leadership team. I'm doing a lightning round where we're talking about what are the key elements? Do we have to share it with one another?
00:38:56
Speaker
What are we doing? Who's visiting? What are we managing? And we do that every day during the week. And then one day a week, we also have a two to three hour meeting where it's our weekly meeting where we're talking more about looking at where's the scorecard, you know, the key metrics we're measuring, what are key elements and the agendas are built spontaneously.
00:39:21
Speaker
So you do a lightning round in the meeting when you start. And if they have a topic they want to share more detail, we say, put that on the agenda. So you do a lightning round, put that on the agenda.
00:39:32
Speaker
And then they get air time to talk more and share. Now, you may have topics where someone tells everybody ahead of time, I want to talk about A, B, and C. You know, that that can happen. And you have those ah topics on the agenda.
00:39:48
Speaker
But sometimes something happens, right? And it's a burning platform. So you'll say, okay, and then amongst the team, we set the priorities of what first things we're going to talk through, right? Because, you know, this is a burning platform, um you know, has it affect X and Y happen? What decision do we need to take?
00:40:08
Speaker
And I do those in weekly meetings. And then also i do a strategic quarterly meeting where we do a day to two day session then where we're talking about about big strategic items, the big items. How are we doing? How we moving forward?
00:40:24
Speaker
And through the year, things get added on as you're going through. Market dynamics, the macroeconomics of of what's going on in the market, the season, the weather. There are so many things that affect how we do business and what's going on.
00:40:40
Speaker
And so we do the strategic. So the daily huddle, 15 minutes, weekly meetings, and then the strategic meeting. So that's how you build that cohesive team.
00:40:51
Speaker
And you find, as people talk more, you build greater comradery. And you share more and you begin to learn about each other. And you begin to learn about people because then people get on the call early often and we chit chat a little bit before then we start the session it's very very interesting like football season is unbelievable i mean like people go and they're like hey did you watch the game blah blah i mean i'm in kansas city they'd be like i mean okay like here like last two weeks people were like kansas city like oh my god we don't win next week we're dead thank goodness the chiefs won because if not my weekly meeting would have been a bad meeting today because there would have been a lot of people crying
00:41:41
Speaker
um But you know what saying? So you it's that personal part. You create the clarity. Why do we exist? How do we behave? you know What are those cultural traits? you know Why do we do what we do? So you create that vision, your mission, and what you're going to do.
00:41:56
Speaker
Talk about what's going to drive success in the organization. What's most important of what we're going to do? So you create that clarity. Then what you do when you have that clarity, and you're also working with the levels below, right?
00:42:10
Speaker
You then begin to communicate. And I'm going to tell you something. Communication is really essential. And when I mean communicate, it's like called over communication.
00:42:23
Speaker
You have to tell people something seven times usually today in today's world for them to get it. And why is that? Why do you think that, Nicole, as a communication person? What do you think?
00:42:35
Speaker
Well, I think people hear what they want to hear and then go back to the other way of doing things, right? Like this is easier. i know how to get this done. Unless you provide that accountability, then they're not going to go the direction that you want them to.
00:42:48
Speaker
And I think people are just going to test it too, especially if it's change, right? Like do really have to do this? Absolutely. But I'm going to agree with everything you said. Also, yeah people today are way too distracted. Agreed. And there's a lot of information coming at us from all different directions.
00:43:04
Speaker
Absolutely. Bombarded. We are bombarded today with information. You know, and one of the things I talk to my team about is being present. Where I am, I've been up this morning. I've read a few mails. I've got a lot going on, but I'm with you.
00:43:21
Speaker
I'm present. I'm focused on what we're doing. So when you're in your're that meeting on that topic, be present, be focused. You know, because people are so bombarded. So really over communication, even thinking about how one communicates messages is also important because there's been a lot of science around communications that I would say 30 years ago, 20 years ago.
00:43:50
Speaker
i mean, today we know there's people that are visual learners. Something drives me nuts is slides. I love slides, but I hate slides that like, you know, it's like, it's like, hello, just put the key point on the slide. So they remember the very key three messages or four messages.
00:44:07
Speaker
And then we're going to like over, we're going to do the, you know voiceover to the message, right? I hate when you got to read a thousand slides. So once again, smart slides with a message because there are those people that need, and you know what?
00:44:25
Speaker
And I'll tell you another thing. I believe this pictures help. Like if the slide has something that's, you know, impactful or relevant to the topic that helps. I know that sounds crazy.
00:44:38
Speaker
It's the way our brains process, right? You also have people that have to hear it. And I often tell people when I'm telling them something important, bloody pick up a pen, people, and write down what I'm saying.
00:44:52
Speaker
Because writing down something actually helps you remember it. Okay, that's another thing. Do you know how many people do you know that take notes on their computer?
00:45:04
Speaker
I know a lot. I don't do it because I i find the old-fashioned pen and paper here much more. Right. Yep. Right? So I am just like you, an old fashioned pen and paper girl.
00:45:15
Speaker
Or i bought one of these Remarkables. Oh, do you like it? i used to use my iPad and I would write on my iPad. And I like this because I can file stuff on one area, right?
00:45:26
Speaker
And you can write just like, and I guess they got this new cool colored one that I haven't gone out and bought yet. So I still use paper and pen. Like, you know, right now I'm doing budget sessions.
00:45:38
Speaker
And for the budget sessions, I'm writing notes. And then I put those with, you know, the slides and things and the financials to remind myself of things. So I do a mixture of both.
00:45:49
Speaker
But I do think, you know, so I'll be like, people, let's pick up a pen. Let's write this down because I'm going to tell you a couple important points. Once again, over creating clarity. It's about reputation, so simplicity, multiple mediums. That's my message to you.
00:46:05
Speaker
and also ensuring about cascading and messaging. And this is another thing. I like to build things for my leadership community. I'm going to say, here is a deck, here's some messaging, and I need you to cascade this.
00:46:19
Speaker
So I want you to talk about this to your people, give this to your team members, and let them cascade this down in their meeting. So you're actually making the job easier for your leaders to cascade all the way down through the organization, if that makes sense.
00:46:38
Speaker
It absolutely does. I think what you're talking about in terms of communicating things multiple ways, not expecting that if you've communicated change via email that everyone has seen it and now on board.
00:46:49
Speaker
But I think what you just talked about too, Jackie, can help for communicating as well of like, hey, if I'm trying to cascade something up to leadership, let's make sure I've got it in slide deck form. Let's make sure I've had the conversations. Let's make sure I sent it via email too, because I think that communication road needs to work effectively both ways.
00:47:05
Speaker
And then another thing to help reinforce clarity, you know, we were talking about, because what we're talking about is transformation or change, right? Is also then I like to build change communities.
00:47:20
Speaker
Ooh, say more about that. What's a change community? Well, so I like to get pulses from the organization. So I create these communities that get feedback from the organization.
00:47:35
Speaker
And those change communities then feed back up. And then I'm getting also feedback from them real time. periodically about what's going on, what's hitting the mark, what's not, whatever.
00:47:52
Speaker
Because I do think, too, going back to your point about I want to give feedback, I want to, you know, share my perspective. Once again, if you have people out in the organization, and often you can do it via your sites or you can do cross-functional, you have to look at your organization, think about how you set it up, and every organization is different. If you're doing like a global business and global change versus you know regional or local change, but a change community is very, very powerful.
00:48:27
Speaker
And really good books on that are like John Cotter. ah John Cotter has the eight principles of change, right? That are, i I really do like Cotter. There different types of change leadership out there.
00:48:40
Speaker
And I'm really dating myself because I'm old school. But there's some great books Cotter's written. Well done. You know, positive reinforcement and change. He also wrote a book, I'm like the name's escaping me, about teaching people It's about penguins. Once again, it's a fable and teaching them how to fish. Their food went away and teaching them how to fish.
00:49:02
Speaker
um That is very interesting. I actually did a meeting once where I had my leadership come out in penguin costumes and dance. It was at that time a happy feat. There's a lot of those good books. And I got to tell you, those fable books, who you mentioned it. Like any book that's a fable that somebody can read 90, 100 pages, 120, and then read it on a plane and it's interesting.
00:49:23
Speaker
And is really good, right? Because it helps people think through what do you got to go through when you manage change. So also building out change communities, transformation communities to help give you that two-way communication is also very important.
00:49:42
Speaker
How do you pick who's in a change community and do you internally even call it a change community? Let's say I work on Jackie's team over here on I don't know, I'm in the lab or something. How do I get picked to be on a change community?
00:49:54
Speaker
Well, usually, it's great that you say that, I ask for feedback, but it's it's also a form of talent development too. If people volunteer, I'll say to somebody interested in volunteering, but then there are some people that will tap on the shoulder. It can be a good element of their own career management and talent development to work in those communities. It's an opportunity for them to cross-functionally collaborate.
00:50:22
Speaker
So they're in one department and this is a cross-functional. So let's say you have four different business units and you want to get a perspective of maybe you're changing how you do your innovation processes in an organization. So bringing a cross-functional, cross-collaborative, scientific group together across businesses to talk about what they're seeing, what's being discussed, that helps them grow, also helps them build a network because In your career development, it's important to build networks outside of where you work and things like that. So it can be through volunteerism. It can also be mindful through opportunity for development. So talking through that as a leadership team.
00:51:05
Speaker
I love that. Thanks for sharing. Okay, Jacopo, I could keep asking you questions I feel like all day, but I know we got to wrap up here soon. So I want to move into our rapid fire segment. So just answer these questions as quick as you can. Let's say one sentence or less.
00:51:20
Speaker
What's one business red flag that you see far too often? A lack of focus and clarity. If you had to describe your leadership philosophy in three words, so what would it be?
00:51:31
Speaker
Service before self. Love that. What is one opportunity you see on the horizon for agriculture that excites you most?
Innovations and Advocacy in Agriculture
00:51:41
Speaker
You know, I've been in this industry for 35 plus years.
00:51:44
Speaker
And, you know, what I'm excited about is throughout my career, And even to today, the impact on innovation and technology allows our industry to evolve.
00:51:59
Speaker
And why that is important is because we are the most essential business in the world. We feed the world. We have an impact on people's health.
00:52:12
Speaker
And we have an overall impact on society. And that's what excites me. And that's why I've been in this industry my entire career. Yeah, absolutely. Love that. What is one thing you think every company should do tomorrow to boost organizational health?
00:52:26
Speaker
I think that people, to boost organizational health, they need to show their organization and their people how much they care.
00:52:39
Speaker
Because until you show people how much they care, they won't care. What is one piece of advice that you wish you could go back and tell younger Jackie?
00:52:49
Speaker
You know what I would tell younger Jackie? You know, it's interesting, but as you age, you become more self-confident and self-assured, and I have. And I would tell younger Jackie to not always be afraid or to be unsure of oneself.
00:53:08
Speaker
I think that's something in my career um I've evolved. Today I'm extremely, probably too self-confident, but it's like, oh well, what the heck? 60 years old, you know, it's like I say, you know, I got something to say, say it.
00:53:20
Speaker
So I do share my kernels of wisdom. Some people might not think it's wisdom, you know. So I think probably in my career, ah sometimes I probably played things a little too smart.
00:53:32
Speaker
I was maybe a little too careful at times. So that's one of the things that I always say, you know, to people is, you know, be self-confident, be out there, be yourself, bring what you got to the table. And I did that, but I wish that when I was 28 27, I was the woman i am today.
00:53:51
Speaker
Boy, that would have been scary, but that's another discussion for another day. I love that. Thank you so much, Jackie. I think for anyone who's listening to hear where you've been in your career and then that advice to your younger self, just, I think it helped people feel not alone in their leadership journey that like we all experience fear and anxiety and unsureness of ourselves.
00:54:13
Speaker
So I really appreciate that, that piece of advice. Okay, and last but not least, so at AFA, we love hot takes. So bold, unconventional opinions, maybe even controversial opinions. What is an unconventional or bold opinion? What's your hot take about leadership or the future of agriculture?
00:54:32
Speaker
Well, I would say the following. ah future of agriculture, and this is what I would just say, we all have to be really smart and pay attention. For all the good we do, we're very misunderstood industry.
00:54:45
Speaker
and there is a lot of agendas out there that talk about our industry, I think often with half information. So one of the greatest things that we have to be, we have to be loud and proud and we have to stand up for our industry.
00:55:01
Speaker
So the greatest thing we can do is be advocates and go out there and have our voice and share and talk about all the good we do because there's a lot of people out there that also talk about a lot of the things that we do that, you know, we're, you know, like, I mean, we're a highly regulated industry between the EPA, the FDA, you know, we're talking about food, feed, fiber, and fuel.
00:55:25
Speaker
So there's a lot of misconceptions. So it's easy to point fingers at us, but we have to point the fingers back and be the greatest advocates for the the best industry in the world, which we all work for.
00:55:36
Speaker
Love it, Jackie. Thank you. Okay. So at AFA, we're all about building bridges and thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us. Where can people connect with you or learn more about what PBI Gordon is doing?
Connecting with Jackie Applegate
00:55:49
Speaker
Yeah. um So they can learn, connect with me on LinkedIn. And also pbi Gordon also has a website and LinkedIn. Each one, our PBI Gordon Corp or our Pegasus PRN PharmaCal or a Pet Ag also have distinct websites to talk about each one of our industries. So thank you for asking. i appreciate that.
00:56:11
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you so much, Jackie. I could keep talking to you forever. i really appreciate you sharing your wisdom. This has been fascinating conversation. I feel like every time we get to the one one of these ends of these episodes, I'm always like, this is my favorite one.
00:56:24
Speaker
So thank you for making time for us and our listeners and your incredibly busy schedule. Really appreciate it, Jackie. Well, thank you, Nicole. It's a real blessing. I've been involved with AFA through the years and your organization and many similar ones out there like it that I'm involved in It's really important. You know, your organizations are making a difference. You're helping young ah leaders and the future leaders of industry be better and you're making a difference every day. So thank you and AFA for all you're doing.
00:56:52
Speaker
Thanks for your partnership and helping me make it possible. Really appreciate you joining us on the Cultivating Leaders podcast. Thanks for listening to the Cultivating Leaders podcast brought to you by Agriculture Future of America. if you've been here before, you know we value feedback as a gift.
00:57:07
Speaker
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