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Negotiating for U.S. Agriculture with Gregg Doud
32 Plays5 days ago
What would be your strategy if you only had one shot to negotiate a billion-dollar trade deal?
Gregg Doud, President and CEO of the National Milk Producers Federation, joins this episode of The Cultivating Leaders Podcast. From his roots on a Kansas farm to the global stage of international trade, Gregg shares his career journey marked by dedication, conviction and service to U.S. agriculture. He shares a behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to negotiate billion-dollar trade deals, and why technical knowledge, cultural awareness and clear communication are vital skills.
Gregg dives into:
- The Complexity of Negotiations: it requires technical, cultural, and strategic awareness
- Principles of Effective Leadership: the importance of knowing what you want before entering a room
- The Importance of Relationships: strong mentors have guided his career and prepared him for hard conversations
Gregg’s stories and advice give great insight into a career in agriculture, policy and business.
Connect with Gregg
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About The Cultivating Leaders Podcast
Real stories. Practical advice. Tangible growth. Join The Cultivating Leaders Podcast, brought to you by Agriculture Future of America, as we explore what it takes to lead in food, agriculture, and beyond. Whether you’re just starting out or leading at the highest level, this podcast is your go-to resource for leadership that matters. Listen now and start cultivating your leadership journey.
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Transcript
The Challenge of Labor in Agriculture
00:00:02
Speaker
I mean, I would say today the biggest issue in agriculture is labor, labor, and labor. But our advantage in agriculture is technology. And if we ever lose that advantage, we're toast.
Introduction to Cultivating Leaders Podcast
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome to the Cultivating Leaders podcast, where we get inside the minds of leaders to harvest great ideas and lessons that help you grow as a difference maker in food and agriculture. I'm your host and curiosity captain, Nicole Ursay.
Introducing Greg Dowd
00:00:31
Speaker
Today's guest has spent his entire career at the intersection of policy, trade, and agriculture. Greg Dowd is the president and CEO of the National Milk Producers Federation, where he leads efforts to support and advocate for America's dairy farmers.
00:00:45
Speaker
Greg brings decades of experience in agricultural policy and international trade. He served as the chief agricultural negotiator in the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative.
00:00:56
Speaker
He's also held leadership roles with the Senate Agriculture Committee, the Commodity Markets Council, and the National Cattlemen's Beef Association. What an incredible
Greg Dowd's Agricultural Background
00:01:04
Speaker
career. Greg, welcome to the pod. Either that or i just can't hold down a job. I'm not sure which is it.
00:01:11
Speaker
I love it. What did we miss from your bio? what What would someone not get if they were you know stalking you on LinkedIn? That I'm just a farm kid from Jewell County, Kansas. My patented story is that I've been in D.C. 33 years now, which means I'm of absolutely no value to anyone in the outside world any longer. that That's pretty much ah so No, I grew up on a hog, cattle, wheat, corn, soybean farm in North Central Kansas.
00:01:37
Speaker
Dad is retired and the next door neighbors and the cousins do the farming. and I'm still a partner in cow-calf operation back in Kansas. I have a horse farm in Maryland. As we speak, the the hay crop is going down.
00:01:50
Speaker
I'm grabbing a bunch of the neighbor kids, and on Thursday afternoon, we'll throw about 600 bales in the barn, so small square. or So if you anybody needs something to do ah Thursday afternoon around south of Annapolis, Maryland, let me know.
Career Beginnings and Progression
00:02:03
Speaker
Come by. I'll put you to work. was in 4-H, a state FFA officer, you know, AGR. you know, this... Straight line ag pedigree all the way.
00:02:15
Speaker
Love it. Well, all of those things are great. You are on the line with two fellow K-Staters as well. Oh, okay. Yeah. So I was a bachelor's in animal science pre-vet and then a master's in ag econ.
00:02:28
Speaker
Okay, Greg, well, how does one go from a Kansas farm kid to spending 33 years in D.C.? Well, the beginning of the story, I think, is the most important, is getting that first job out of college. You've got to really work at it. And that was, for me, 1991. It was a recession. I wanted to be a grain trader.
00:02:47
Speaker
Nobody was hiring in grain trader. In fact, they were laying people off. I had a summer internship with Dow Chemical the summer before. They're the ones that convinced me to go to grad school. So I ended up getting a job. My first job out of grad school was with U.S. Wheat Associates in Portland, Oregon.
00:03:05
Speaker
And U.S. Wheat is the entity that 15 overseas offices. They do all the marketing, market promotion work for wheat exports around the world. And So I was the very first assistant director of the office in Portland in 1991.
00:03:22
Speaker
And then a year later, they brought me to D.C. to be their economist analyst. And see, that was in 92. And then in 94, I met the local IDOC, Annapolis, Maryland, and got stuck in D.C., basically.
00:03:35
Speaker
That's the long short of it. So I never really had any... interest in coming to D.C., although it was an interesting place, but working for U.S. Wheat was a great opportunity. and And then from then on out, I just had to figure out a way to you know keep myself employed in D.C. Yeah.
00:03:52
Speaker
That is amazing. So small world. I worked for U.S. Wheat Associates way back in the day. What? What did you do for U.S. Wheat? So I was a communications contractor for several years.
00:04:04
Speaker
So small world. But also Wheat makes sense as a Kansas farm kid because Kansas is the wheat store. 1991 97, U.S. Wheat. And then 97 to 2000, I worked for a private consulting firm called World Perspectives.
00:04:21
Speaker
as an analyst economist and our clients in those days was this is a company owned by the great carol brookens a very famous person of the 1980s and 90s she was one of the people that helped do all the politicking behind the scenes to create the uruguay round of wto negotiation from the private sector so our clients at yeah world perspectives were all of the multinational grain trading firms in the world except for two or three So the Europeans, the Japanese, Canadian weight board, we're all clients. And so we wrote eight to 10 pages a day of analysis on commodity markets and world trade and politics and and great experience learning from some of the best people on earth, great mentors in that time period. And then then in 2003, went to ncb yeah
00:05:10
Speaker
Wow, you have had quite the career.
Leading Major Trade Deals
00:05:12
Speaker
Okay, so I want to talk about your time as a chief agricultural trade negotiator, because you would have been leading this, right, for the last for USMCA.
00:05:21
Speaker
Tell us what that was like. So, yeah, when I was there, we did USMCA. We did the most well-known for doing the ag piece of the China phase one agreement. which was a year of my life, 33 negotiating sessions, hundreds of hours doing battle with the Chinese.
00:05:37
Speaker
We fixed some 57 trade issues between the U.S. and China and and agriculture. So that's a pretty historic deal. And then the Japan phase one agreement as well, which I consider, frankly, to be one of the great ag trade deals of all time.
00:05:54
Speaker
Canada, Mexico, China, Japan, that's over half of US s ag exports that we kind of, in Kansas farm boy terms, we overhauled while I was there. That's an incredible accomplishment.
00:06:06
Speaker
What is it like to negotiate at that scale, knowing you're representing an immense amount of complexity and obviously dealing with cultural challenges and lots of people who want different things and not just on two sides of the table in multiple facets?
00:06:22
Speaker
So it's very, very complicated is the answer to that. And you have to know a lot of things. you Yeah, you have to know the culture a little bit. And that first year With U.S. Wheat in Portland was a tremendous experience. I think in that year we brought in something like 30 or 35 foreign trade delegations for all all around the world.
00:06:42
Speaker
Ate with chopsticks several times a week meeting with the Japanese grain trade. 11 Japanese trading houses were in Portland in those days. And my boss, John Oates, is one of the great, he was a former FFA, go ag teacher, department head of ag ed at Oregon State. One of the great mentors of all time.
00:06:59
Speaker
Unbelievable. I owe John a lot. Because he traveled in 60 some countries. Today I've traveled in 44 countries, many of them, many, many times. and And you learn how to do this.
00:07:12
Speaker
John taught you how to do this. And when you're in the heat of battle going at it, what you would say, well, is it ti you're talking about tariff numbers? No, not in agriculture.
00:07:24
Speaker
You're talking about sanitary and phytosanitary issues. You're arguing and and over things like beef hormones and ractopamine and testing protocols and safety protocols. And and why do we what's the difference between the European way of meat inspection and the HACCP plan in the United States? It is incredibly technical.
00:07:47
Speaker
and And the great advantage that I had is a couple of things is I'm one of the few guys in Washington or as an ag economist that understands the grain business and spent years in the grain business and also spent years in the livestock business.
00:08:01
Speaker
So, you know, growing up on a hog and cattle farm, working at NCBA, um what what I have found, I'll be honest, is there are few people in Washington that understand the livestock industry very well at all. Or supply chains, you have to how understand supply chains, you have understand in international trade, how we, you know, what what goes on a container vessel, how that whole process works, what will work in the real world and how do negotiate that and realize that you know, they actually, i understand what you want foreign country, but that won't work.
00:08:32
Speaker
So this is what we have to do to make it work and actually facilitate trade.
Importance of Supply Chain Knowledge
00:08:36
Speaker
ah that's ah ah That's a skill set that you know takes a long time to learn the and these industries and how they work. and With dairy, I was on the K-State dairy cattle judging team, and in 1988, yeah, I won the Fort Worth Collegiate Dairy Cattle Judging Contest, but that doesn't make me understand anything about the dairy industry, let me tell you.
00:08:58
Speaker
So it's it's really interesting to me right now to be learning, and ah yet again, another industry, another commodity, another supply chain. Agricultural supply chains domestically and internationally, guys, are really complicated.
00:09:14
Speaker
Wheat, corn, and soybeans is pretty straightforward. you know we We know what we do with a soybean. We know what we do. livestock feed or ethanol out of corn, but on the meat side of the equation, you know, you have to understand we sell a half a billion dollars worth of chicken feed to China a year.
00:09:32
Speaker
We, you know, we sell everything but the move. We, and all the parts and pieces, whether it's hides or tongues or whatever it is, you know, variety made support products, Where do all these things go? Who your competitors are?
00:09:45
Speaker
What the trade flows are? What are the economics? What is the seasonality of all of these commodities? And then you get into the fruits and vegetables. Holy moly, the seasonality and the and trade flows are really interesting.
Farm Background Advantage
00:09:59
Speaker
That ag job at USTR, that portfolio, US ag exports today are somewhere around $175 billion dollars with a B. It's one of the biggest things the US s exports. So it was pretty funny early days on the job that my boss, who was the famous Robert Lighthizer, who was the US trade representative in the first Trump administration, everybody's homework assignment, we'll talk about this in a minute, but everybody's homework assignment was a couple months ago Tucker Carlson interviewed Bob for an hour and a half.
00:10:30
Speaker
Everyone must go find that interview and spend an hour and a half. and And once you hear Bob lay out what we're doing here today, what President Trump is doing with tariffs, you'll get it.
00:10:41
Speaker
its It's one of the pieces. Tariffs are one of the pieces of U.S. industrial policy that we're trying to develop. The complexity that comes with navigating agriculture as a whole, but especially agriculture trade, what do you think set you up for success in being able to navigate all of that complexity?
00:10:59
Speaker
Well, I think being a farm kid, honestly, and and you know what I see in Washington today, I'll be honest with you, there's not that many farm kids left in Washington. Far
Beef Supply Chain Intricacies
00:11:11
Speaker
fewer than when I started here 33 years ago And you have to have a genuine curiosity about, okay, I'll use this example. you know How does ADM procure wheat and and turn it into flour and how do they sell it? You know you you think about Cargill, who supplies beef to Outback Steakhouse.
00:11:34
Speaker
Did you know that Outback Steakhouse only buys beef once a year? They only price their beef once a year. Used to be twice, now it's once. Why? Because they don't want to change their menu because reprinting their menus is one of the most expensive things that they would have to do.
00:11:49
Speaker
So think of the complexity, if you're Cargill, of buying beef every day on the hoof and selling it once a year. The risk management, the derivatives, all the different components that go into that. It is an incredibly complex world. And one of the unique jobs that I've had was running the Commodity Markets Council here in Washington.
00:12:10
Speaker
The membership of that trade association is the CME, ICE, ADM, Bungie, Cargill, and BP, Koch Industries, and all the big companies on the energy side of the equation as well.
00:12:22
Speaker
you know Having an understanding of the difference between a speculator and an end user and and you know working on Dodd-Frank and and regulations at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, CFTC, that's all lawyers all the time. When you're doing trade, when you're working at ustr there's 230 the here in Washington, everybody's fifteen of them are lawyers so here in washington everybody's a lawyer I was the one guy at town all these years that was the economist and not the lawyer that actually said, no, this is, I understand what the law says. I understand what we have on paper, but it doesn't work or not.
00:12:58
Speaker
We have to, you know, in the interaction, picking up the phone and and calling JBS or Tyson and saying, will this work? Picking up the phone and calling ADM or Cargill or Bungie and saying, this is what we're trying to do. Will this work? Or what help me understand the nuance here so we don't mess this up because you got one shot.
00:13:17
Speaker
You get one chance in a lifetime to do these
Complexities of Trade Negotiations
00:13:21
Speaker
deals. You've got to get it right down to every detail. In those rooms where the decisions are being made, what stands out about people or what have you noticed about people that move the conversation forward versus those who maybe be just speak or just take up space?
00:13:36
Speaker
The answer to that is they knew exactly what they wanted to do before they ever walked in the room. They've thought about this for a long time. You know, on these ag trade issues, I dealt with Canada and the Canadian Wheat Board beginning in 1991. You know about these issues a long time.
00:13:57
Speaker
You know, with with China, well we, you know, opened the Chinese market to U.S. beef for the first time. I knew exactly what we had to get done to do that. And so those are the people in that room, or these are these are the experts. And so not only do you have those guys and gals, you have the best technical people on earth. You have the best lawyers on earth. So we negotiated the deal once with China, we negotiated a second time, and then the third time was the translation. And that was, in my opinion, easily the most difficult.
00:14:27
Speaker
And at one point, we spent an hour arguing over what one word meant. And and the the lawyer was a Harvard trained lawyer that spoke Mandarin sitting next to me. So tedious, so difficult, so nuanced with the culture and the language.
00:14:42
Speaker
And, you know, my Chinese counterpart saying you can't use that word. This is what that word means in in Mandarin. I'm like, well, we don't mean that. And he goes, I know, I understand it. But the Chinese people don't. You got to use a different word. I was like, well, what is that word? He goes, I don't know either.
00:14:57
Speaker
but we got to change it. I'm like, okay, we'll change it. But what is it? What do we do here? And so we would argue back and forth, you know, not arguing, but, you know, trying to figure it out. Very difficult.
00:15:09
Speaker
and And what was really funny about that is the the Harvard lawyer said, okay, I think I got this. And he came back a week later and had rewritten the whole section using completely different words. And my Chinese counterpart looked at and went, yeah, that's it. Okay. Well,
00:15:26
Speaker
after all that But but it it's those are important things is is that perception and language is as in cultures as much as what you're actually trying to do on paper.
00:15:38
Speaker
What do you think is the most important skill in those scenarios? Is it relationships? Is it truly understanding the technical information? what do you think makes it you successful at the table in those type of once in a lifetime, like you said, negotiations?
00:15:53
Speaker
i think it's all of it. One of my predecessors and a mentor of mine, the great Dr. Dick Crowder, who was an undersecretary and in the Bush administration and then came out of retirement to be the ag negotiator, he's the guy that did the South Korean Free Trade Agreement.
00:16:11
Speaker
Dick was amazing. And having been an executive at Pillsbury in his career, um you know he he had operated at a very high level in his career for a long time. He said, Greg, here's your job.
00:16:25
Speaker
You have your resignation letter written on your first day on the job, and it sets in your top desk drawer in your job to go all the way to the Oval Office to fight for U.S. farmers and agriculture and to get it done to a point of possibly getting fired.
00:16:38
Speaker
You don't back down ever. That was a great pep talk and understanding of, holy cow, that is the job. and And, you you know, were there was there a couple times where I was up right up against that line? Oh, yeah. I got in a huge fight with the secretary of the treasury at one point where I was like, ooh.
00:17:01
Speaker
But we got it sorted out. We got the Chinese beef market open in that case. I told my boss, Bob Leitezer, I said, look, This is a billion dollars.
00:17:13
Speaker
And I'm just a simple farm boy from Kansas. I've never seen a billion dollars before, but I'm sorry, we're going to the mat to get this done because we'll never, ever get another chance.
Pressure and Integrity in Negotiations
00:17:23
Speaker
And then later I told Bob, I said, Bob, I was wrong. It isn't a billion. We now sell China $2 billion dollars worth of U.S. beef.
00:17:32
Speaker
it was It was one of those where you had to have the conviction that you had to go all the way to the mat to get this done or you were never going to get it done. And it was scary.
00:17:43
Speaker
It was really tough. How do you push through in those situations that are scary like that? That so much is on the line and you know what you're talking about? scared out of your mind.
00:17:55
Speaker
but because You know, you get one shot to get it right. And if you don't, you know, what do you do? but You have a lot of resources. And, you know, when we were doing this, I had 20 or 30 of the best people in the U.S. government behind him, behind me, the vice minister, now the minister of Ag of China. Now he was the vice minister then.
00:18:12
Speaker
He had 40 or 50 people behind him in the room. And, you know we're we're doing most of the talking, but everybody's passing me notes and, you know, the translation and you got all this stuff going on.
00:18:23
Speaker
You know, we we have a book this thick and you're going down through it with all the issues. You know, 57 issues is is what we discussed in this whole thing. you understand what you're doing, but at some point it's just you and him and you, you're just, you know, going back and forth, trying to figure it out.
00:18:39
Speaker
and At some point, do you, did I press him too hard and he got mad at me Yeah. But you know, you you have to find where that balance is. It's part of it, right? yeah You talked about being willing to go to the mat as far as your like letter of resignation. So what is a value or principle that you refuse to compromise on?
00:18:57
Speaker
Well, that's more different. i would I would say that's on the integrity side of the equation. These things require an enormous amount of what's the right thing to do.
00:19:09
Speaker
And you're not going to cut some sort of backroom deal or this that or the other. you you know it is It is very clear as you dig into these issues. what's black and what's white and what you got to have. And, and you know, you're not going to settle for anything less.
00:19:23
Speaker
To me, that's just kind of a, if if I didn't do that, could I ever go home and show my face into the cafe with the other farmers? You know what I mean? You know, you you're your job is to go to the mat and get this done at all costs.
Teamwork in Trade Success
00:19:39
Speaker
and And that's a really unique, you know, I would not recommend that necessarily if you're a grain merchandiser for ADM and you're arguing over, you know, a half a penny in a purchase, you know, going to that extent may or may not be the best career advice. But when you're in that room going at it with ah another country,
00:20:02
Speaker
you got to get it done. you need It's got to be right. And there's no there's no points for being second. Yep. What's your best piece of negotiating advice?
00:20:14
Speaker
That's a great question. I'll tell you a story, though. And i was told this story by someone that had worked in the Reagan and Ford and Nixon White Houses who knew Bob Lighthizer and have have Bob tell you the paper airplane story.
00:20:31
Speaker
And one night we were in his office and I finally got up enough nerve to ask him, I said, is the paper airplane story true? And he looked at me like, how the hell do you know that story? And it' little he mentions in it in his book a little bit, but Bob was a master at using silence in a negotiation.
00:20:48
Speaker
He would just stop talking to a point, not for like 30 seconds, but like for minutes and minutes and minutes to a point where it unnerved everybody.
00:21:00
Speaker
And we would just marvel at how he could do that. We were just like, I mean, you're just not, we're not worthy. right
00:21:09
Speaker
And he did that once in ah in a very famous negotiation that I won't get into detail on, but they handed him a piece of paper and he just went silent with it. And then after several minutes, he very slowly and methodically folded it into a paper airplane, went back across the table.
00:21:27
Speaker
Did it work out? ah Yeah. the Bob Blighthizer. I mean, you got to think about this. You're Donald Trump's trade negotiator. How tough a dude are you?
00:21:40
Speaker
Bob is unbelievable. I mean, I just, the guy is the smart one of the smartest guys I've ever come across. By the way, the other smartest guy in the room was Ambassador C.J. Mahoney.
00:21:52
Speaker
And C.J.' 's from Russell, Kansas. But CJ went to Harvard and they knew a law. CJ's a little smarter than and us K-State kids. I'm not gonna lie to you.
00:22:04
Speaker
CJ today, he's the he's the guy that did USMCA. yeah And I mean, that was negotiations was like that thick. Who is, what does he do today? He just got promoted the other day.
00:22:15
Speaker
He's now the general counsel, one of the head lawyers or the head lawyer for Microsoft. He's a very, very smart dude. It's amazing to hear about the incredible smarts of people in the room who are doing this.
00:22:27
Speaker
Well, and and these other countries, they have their best and brightest as well. and And these folks, you know, that Japanese negotiator you're across the table from, he's been doing this for 30 years.
00:22:38
Speaker
He's been trained since he was in high school to do this. Think about that as well. That's a little that' little different than you've- That's right. A couple years. Yeah, top. Can you tell me about a time that a farmer rancher influenced your perspective on a policy or a decision that you're a part of creating?
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great- I have a story for you there, too. It was one of my first days on the job with the cattlemen. And we were at it at the big board meeting and and I had a rancher come up and and put their hand on my shoulder. And I was talking about trade because I'd worked for US wheat and, you know, the importance of trade and beef. And they came up to me in a very sincere way and put their hand on my shoulder and said, you know, Greg, that's okay. You can work on the trade staff, but it's never really going to be an important thing for the beef industry.
00:23:24
Speaker
From that minute on, it was like, it was a calling.
Joy and Mentorship in Career
00:23:27
Speaker
It was like, you know what? We're going to we're going to help people understand how damn important this is going to be. You know, sometimes it's it that's a little bit of to me, a little bit of divine intervention and inspiration of, okay now I know why I'm here.
00:23:43
Speaker
Just motivated you. ah like Yeah, I think we got to fix this. Yes. Yes. Oh, I love that. How early on in your career was that moment? That was been 2003. So, you know, I don't know whether that's early on or not. It was, you know, quite a while ago. So, you know, a third of the way through maybe at this point.
00:24:02
Speaker
yeah What do you wish someone would have told you early on in your career? Because I don't think from what you're telling me, it doesn't sound like you planned this path at all. Well, you don't plan the path, but you, you know, kind of know what you like to do. My my best advice to anybody is don't do a job that you don't enjoy.
00:24:22
Speaker
Do a job that you love getting up in the morning and doing what you're doing because otherwise life is just not a whole lot of fun from a career standpoint.
00:24:33
Speaker
You know, I worked, what, eight years at the Cattlemen? I never worked the day I was there. I, you know, traveled my butt off, worked my tail off. I loved every minute of it. and And that's the best, best way to go through life from a career standpoint is find something that you enjoy doing.
00:24:51
Speaker
And the futures market stuff is interesting. Working on Capitol Hill after you're almost 40 or 40 years old you get yes going up there with young kids working on Capitol Hill, that was a shift.
00:25:05
Speaker
That was tougher, really tough to do until you kind of got the gist of it. So that sometimes those transitions are difficult. I've bounced around, done a lot of things. i you know i've had my The thing I would say is the best advice I can give anybody, find mentors. I've had the greatest mentors.
00:25:25
Speaker
you could possibly have, but you gotta seek them out. You gotta work at that. You have to have a kitchen cabinet. Even today, I have a kitchen cabinet of when need advice and counsel, folks that I know and pick up the phone, I say, all right, look, this is a kitchen cabinet conversation.
Continuous Learning and Adapting
00:25:42
Speaker
What was the best way to approach this? And and you've got to do that. the The thing with the younger generation, and my two kids are 24 and 27, and the issue that they have, they don't like to pick up the phone.
00:25:56
Speaker
And you've got to do it, folks. You've got to have relationships with folks that you can, especially on the mentor side, you can pick up the phone.
00:26:07
Speaker
That's, to me, not doing that or not having that capability is going to be a real problem for you down the road. Any tips for cultivating those relationships and going after those people, maybe especially if they feel intimidating or you know you know that you've heard you should do this, but how do you actually go about making it happen?
00:26:25
Speaker
Well, you you do it with folks that you're comfortable with and you have a rapport with. You don't do it with somebody that's a jerk to you. you You find folks that, that you know, you you like talking to and like hanging out with. And they don't necessarily, you know, if you're 25, they don't have to be 60. Maybe they're 30.
00:26:43
Speaker
And, but, you know, they can give you good advice and counsel. You know, in Washington, D.C., I would say that the average lifespan of an employee or person, young professional working in DC is about the same lifespan as some young player in the NFL. It's about two years.
00:27:01
Speaker
um And so, you know, people get burnt out. You get, you know, ah the big fish eats the little fish. That's kind of the way it works in Washington. So you if you're going to be around here a while, you've got figure out a way not to get eaten.
00:27:17
Speaker
Because nobody's going to look out for you. You got to look out for yourself and you got to find folks that will help you figure out how to do that Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. ah What do you think this generation of leaders needs to do differently than maybe ah your generation?
00:27:32
Speaker
You got to work on the Rolodex. Got to work on the Rolodex. that That's the key to... to and do i Do I know the answer when I was at USTR working on all these trade issues? Did I know the answer? No.
00:27:46
Speaker
But what did I know? I knew who to pick up the phone and call and ask. That's what makes you successful. Absolutely. People around you. We always talk about AFA, your network as your personal asset. Absolutely. And keep in mind that, and this is a great thing I tell folks out there, is your friends that you've made in AFA that now you're the junior director,
00:28:07
Speaker
traders at the whatever desk for whatever your companies or the junior buyers or whatever, you know what i mean? You're the junior salesperson. In 30 years, you're going to be the head of something and they're going to be the CEO of something.
00:28:20
Speaker
But you're still going to have that same relationship 30 years later that you have today. Yeah, only a couple more years under the belt. Absolutely. Right. they and you and But I think what you highlight, Greg, is it's important to like maintain touch with those folks.
00:28:34
Speaker
Absolutely. And as you talk about building that kitchen cabinet, they can also be people that you pick up the phone and call and get advice on and perspective from and that kind of thing
Understanding Role and Influence
00:28:45
Speaker
throughout your career. It doesn't always have to be someone older than you. It can also come from your peer group.
00:28:48
Speaker
That is exactly right. How can we better prepare ourselves holistically, I would say, as leaders in agriculture to lead in this next chapter of agriculture, especially if you look at the economic environment that we're in today and the what seems like a mass amount of uncertainty?
00:29:04
Speaker
There's an old FFA adage, you got to want to. I think that was a Zig Ziglar thing, maybe or something. i don't remember where it came from. But as I was a commodity analyst and and I have always had an insatiable experience interest in reading and understanding current events and markets and what's going on.
00:29:21
Speaker
And so the best advice is you you can't stop learning. even Even if it's, you know, you're working on something that's very tedious or whatever, you need to keep yourself more well-rounded in terms of, you know, I'm not saying you got listen to 10 podcasts a day, but you know what I mean?
00:29:40
Speaker
Reading and on the internet, you've got, you know, access to all kinds of information anywhere in the world. keep Keep up with what interests you. Become an expert in different areas. Keep up to speed in what's going on.
00:29:53
Speaker
That's what you have to do to be successful. You can't stop learning or you're dead. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And in agriculture, I think we talked about those with the complexity, there's always something new to learn. oh my goodness.
00:30:04
Speaker
every read I spend hours a day just reading. Mm-hmm. um I'm not, I'll be honest with you, I'm not a big podcast person. My wife and my son are huge podcast people. So they keep me in the loop. I'm not on Twitter and all that.
00:30:18
Speaker
ah can't so I can't do it. But my son was an assistant for Sandra Smith at Fox News in New York City. His Twitter account, his access to information is second to none anywhere in the world. he gets he is So he just sends it to me. So that's but how I get you have your own personal curator. like I have my own personal curator. Exactly.
00:30:40
Speaker
He's damn good at it, too. Let me tell you. um That's incredible. He's already done it at the top of the world. Looking back at your career, Greg, was there a moment that you realized, like, oh, I have influence or people are listening to me in a new way?
00:30:53
Speaker
And if you did, what did you do with that? No.
00:31:00
Speaker
I don't...
00:31:03
Speaker
How to describe this. It's the job in D.C. It's not the person. And I learned this, I think, a long time ago when I was at the Cattlemen.
00:31:14
Speaker
I had a lot of people contacting me, talking to me about issues and stuff that I had no business. But it was just because I was in that role. and And you begin to have a network. and And so you were swapping intel back and forth and you were kind of in the know of what's going on.
00:31:32
Speaker
But what did I realize? I realized that if I ever left that job, my phone would stop ringing the next day. So, you know, so much of it isn't about you. It's about the role.
00:31:44
Speaker
In my opinion, you keep that in context and perspective, it'll help you. So much of you know doing what I do in Washington isn't because of the name. It's because of the position that I'm in.
00:31:57
Speaker
And and and as you as you change positions over time and and do different things in and out of government, you you learn that, look, this is the job. but What mindset have you approached navigating those different career changes with?
00:32:10
Speaker
Since you've done a lot of different things, how did you know this is the time to go to something different? Time to leave maybe one job behind where your phone will stop ringing on a certain topic and start ringing on another?
00:32:20
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't. I mean, some of those transitions were going from the cattlemen to the Senate Ag Committee was a very difficult transition, but I knew I was going to do something else, i had to do this step to go to the next step.
00:32:33
Speaker
I would have never been nearly as successful as the ag negotiator had I not spent time up in the Senate. And that's why so many people that have been staff members on a Senate committee, committee staff, not personal staff, but committee staff, get pulled into the administration in big jobs.
00:32:50
Speaker
Those are really talented people that write the laws on these committees, whether it's the help committee or ag committee or finance committee or whatever it is. Once you do those jobs, you have a really good skill set in terms of negotiating, in terms of how the seeing how the government works overall, but then go into the executive branch and know how to get things done. It's all about knowing how to get things done.
00:33:14
Speaker
Then, you know, you you do that for a while. You come back out of government running a trade association. You have that context and and understanding of being on both sides of the table. and And knowing what the person on Capitol Hill needs versus knowing what the industry is trying to get done, that having that perspective and how to thread that needle and, and you know, what will work and what it won't work is is you do that a couple of times and all of a sudden you become really, really valuable to say, here's the strategy.
00:33:45
Speaker
This is how this is going to work. This is how we're going to do this. And, you know, because you know what works
Variety of Experiences in Policy
00:33:49
Speaker
and what doesn't. Yeah, because you've been there. Right. It's like coaching a basketball team. You know what plays generally are going to work and what aren't. What do you think is most valuable as you think about these different things? Because I think there's a lot of coaching that young people receive of like, oh, a lot of people are job hoppers these days. They're not staying in one spot.
00:34:05
Speaker
Does that different experience have value? And can you lead in some of these scenarios if you haven't been on that side of the table? Or if you, mean, for example, you don't necessarily come from a dairy background, but now you're advocating for dairy producers.
00:34:19
Speaker
The way I was approached for the dairy job was, and I wasn't really that interested in it, but it was like, Greg, you know everything else in town how to do this. We'll teach you the dairy stuff.
00:34:31
Speaker
You already have all the other experience in terms of know how to drive a strategy, get things done, how it all works. And that was true. So it was just a matter of, OK, I'm shifting from the Yankees to the Royals or whatever it is. you know You understand the concepts of the game and how to do it. You're just changing what jersey you have on.
00:34:49
Speaker
A lot of truth to that, i think. and And being a beef guy, switching to dairy is not that. It's, you know, it it translates pretty well. Now, the marketing side of it and the federal milk marketing order and all that, that's really, really complicated. But as an ag economist, you understand markets and you're like, okay, I can i can learn this and I've had to learn it.
00:35:10
Speaker
And so that was, you know, when we did de Canada Dairy USMCA, great experience to know, okay, I get enough of this to know how it all works. the The answer I would say today is in Washington, you have to bounce from place to place to place to move up.
00:35:29
Speaker
There's no way to do it within one organis organization. It's not possible. um So that's the successful business model. In corporate America, i would say more and more whether you're in data analytics and then you jump over and do some management and then you jump over and do some risk management, you know, whether you do that within the company and different divisions of the company or different companies, I don't think it really matters this day and age.
00:35:54
Speaker
But, to you know, as you get towards the top, you've got to be well-rounded. You have to have a different perspective and different views in terms of, you know, whether it's dealing with people or dealing with issues or or dealing with customers. You've got to have all those different experiences in order to work your way up.
00:36:14
Speaker
And that managing people thing is, it's a real skill set. and And to do that well, you've got to be, that's the hardest job, part of my job every day is dealing with people.
00:36:28
Speaker
They're a pain in the butt. And also the best part of the job.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah. So by the way, I've also learned and being the boss now a couple trade associations and and and different things. Being the boss sucks. You know that?
00:36:46
Speaker
Because usually when you're the boss, the only reason you're dealing with the issue is because nobody else can fix it. So it's worked its way up. Now you've got to figure out how to fix it because nobody else could.
Leadership and Mentorship
00:36:58
Speaker
that's So you get all the dirty jobs as the boss. it's It's really no fun. ah You're really really selling people on leadership here, Greg. Yeah. um What advice do you have for people who want to rise to that next level of leadership, whether it's seeking different experience or you know looking at at how to become a better people manager?
00:37:18
Speaker
What advice do you have to to grow? I think you just have to work out. I don't know that there's any... you know silver bullet piece of advice I think yeah and I would go back to the basic things is is have a mentors have a kitchen cabinet you got to work and learn and do it every day and you got to want to love it it's got to be something you enjoy doing I could never manage people at a grocery store at UPS or something you know I just You know, that's I enjoy the agricultural industry and the people in it. And and that makes the the rest of it easy.
00:37:57
Speaker
OK, Greg, we are going to move into what we call rapid fire. So going to toss you some questions and just try to give me a like one sentence to 30 second answer on these. What is one lesson you had to learn the hard way?
00:38:11
Speaker
Oh, that's a good one. I don't know that I can. You know, I would just say that the the lesson is sometimes you learn things in life from people on how not to do it.
00:38:22
Speaker
Amen. but Amen to that one. And just kind of leave it at that. You know, it was it was a lesson where I got some advice not to take a job because it wasn't the best situation. And just a few months into it, I should have taken that advice. It was a mess. It was a bad deal.
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah. And you learned, yeah but you learn from that. Those are lessons you take with you the rest of the way. Let me tell you. Yeah, they stick with you. Yeah. What is the best piece of career advice you've ever received?
00:38:53
Speaker
I would say that that advice from Dick about having your resignation in the top drawer and and not ever backing down.
Future of U.S. Agriculture
00:39:01
Speaker
I wouldn't and recommend that for every job.
00:39:05
Speaker
That could get you to use that pretty Yeah, but for that one, in that particular circumstance, that was the best advice of all time. ah So the advice you needed in the moment. Yeah.
00:39:16
Speaker
I mean, that you know how do how do you be successful? you you you know Don't ever back down all the way to the top. Make them tell the president of the United States, no.
00:39:26
Speaker
that i mean Let me tell you what, that gets pretty scary, folks. That gets pretty scary. Air's pretty thin up there at that level, let me tell you. You better... You better know what you're doing. What is one issue you believe will define the next decade of U.S. agriculture?
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's... pro i Do you go with the technology side of the equation or do you go with the labor and the people side of the equation? You could argue it either way.
00:39:53
Speaker
I mean, I would say today the biggest issue in agriculture is labor, labor, and labor. But our advantage in agriculture is technology. And if we ever lose that advantage, we're toast.
00:40:05
Speaker
That's a great answer. Fill in the blank here, Greg. The future of agriculture depends on... I would say technology, our ability to adapt. So so here's here's my standard spiel on this.
00:40:19
Speaker
We have a lot of venture capital in agriculture spending billions on new technology. But if we can't get our government to approve this technology, where we can commercialize it and the people that made that an investment can get a return on an investment, what's going happen?
00:40:34
Speaker
The venture capital is going to dry up. It's going to go to some other industry where they can get that. So right now, the the challenge that I am really worried about is our government ability government's ability to prove new technology in agriculture. One of the great issues that drives me crazy is transgenic animal traits.
00:40:53
Speaker
this is This is a technology that if we don't approve this and use it, you it's going to Brazil, it's going to other countries, and we're going to be losing out. It's going to be a really big problem. What is one thing that gives you optimism about the future of ag policy?
00:41:06
Speaker
We're just better at this than anybody else. You know, our advantages are and we learned this at K-State, what is the biggest advantage U.S. agriculture has versus the rest of the world?
00:41:17
Speaker
It's our access to capital. Yeah, we have great logistics and river systems and transportation and all that, but it's our access to capital that sets us apart from the rest of the world.
00:41:28
Speaker
Our ability to innovate and and do things better and different. our Our livestock industry, in my opinion, is so far ahead of the rest of the world that the rest of the world is scared to death.
00:41:39
Speaker
Or we can help serve the rest of the world too. Yeah. Yeah. No, and we will. that's That's my big thing is our advantage is of protein. Beef, pork, poultry, dairy. Nobody else in the world can do it. If we look on the dairy side today, we've got $10 billion in 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 new dairy processing investment in the United States.
00:42:02
Speaker
That's because the whole world realizes that this is the place we're going to grow in dairy going forward in the world. It's going to be in the U.S. That's unbelievable. No, there isn't another commodity in another country anywhere in the world that has $10 billion in new processing investment going on.
00:42:18
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
Resources for Continual Learning
00:42:19
Speaker
What is one leadership tool? Could be book, could be podcast. You said you're not a podcast guy, but what is one leadership tool you recommend or that you couldn't live without? without That's a good question.
00:42:32
Speaker
I don't know. i So for the young person starting out, The advice that I got, which I'm kind of graduated from a little bit of that today, but the best thing you should do is get a subscription to The Economist magazine and or The Wall Street Journal and read it every day.
00:42:47
Speaker
It just helps you understand how the world works. That's the best continuing education you can get is The Economist and The Wall Street Journal. Okay, Greg, we are big on bold takes, or we we call them hot takes at AFA. So love to ask our guests, what is an unconventional, hot take, bold opinion that you have about agriculture or leadership?
00:43:07
Speaker
So um this is a fun this is my favorite saying, and my colleagues at Aimpoint, this was their favorite saying, as always is the is the livestock guy. and And the nexus between the livestock guy and the grain guy in the world, I always explain to people, pigs and chickens are not pigs and chickens.
00:43:25
Speaker
They are little walking piles of corn and soybean meat. Right? Yep. Okay. So my point is this in terms of the unconventional part of this in terms of agriculture is we spent all this time talking about specialization in agriculture and you need to be a specialist in this or specialist in that. The farmer needs to specialize.
00:43:46
Speaker
I think we've gone way too far. i think what we need to do is diversify. What really bothers me about U.S. agriculture today is you're either a crop farmer or a livestock farmer, and we don't have anybody anymore that does both.
00:44:01
Speaker
and And so we need more of that diversification in our cash flow going forward. That's interesting. Or there's a lot of guys who I would say you're a crop farmer that maybe has some livestock.
00:44:13
Speaker
Very rare to find someone who is both. That's right. And I think, you know, i grew up on a farm with both and we walked our grain off the farm.
Engagement with Political Leaders
00:44:21
Speaker
That's, you know, we we added value to our grain sorghum and corn by marketing it through pigs.
00:44:27
Speaker
We don't do much of that anymore. And I think that's something we ought to reconsider. I like that hot take. All right, Greg, any final thoughts that you want to leave our listeners with?
00:44:38
Speaker
We need good, bright folks in Washington. learn Learn how to come have a conversation and in Washington. Have a conversation with your member of Congress, your senator, your representative. Go to a town hall, visit with them.
00:44:51
Speaker
They are dying for your perspective on things. they They want to hear it from people in the real world. they're They're sick of listening to me tell them about it here in Washington. They know what I'm going to say because we tell them on a consistent basis.
00:45:06
Speaker
they They need that backstop from you out in the country.
Closing and Feedback Call
00:45:09
Speaker
And so i I would encourage all of you to go do that. Two homework assignments from you, Greg. I like it. Awesome. Well, we are all about building bridges, the AFA. So where can people connect with you, Greg, and learn more about what it is you do?
00:45:22
Speaker
Oh, I don't know. and I mean, and see, that's the thing. as I'm not on X or Twitter. I'm not on Instagram. I am on Facebook, but that's typically just my friends. So ah LinkedIn may be the best way to do that a little bit. i dont I'm not real active on it, but you can you can track me down that way. It might be the best way.
00:45:43
Speaker
Appreciate it. Well, thank you so much, Greg. This has been so fun to listen to you and learn from you. You have incredible stories and I think just another great example of an amazing career in agriculture. So thank you so much for joining us on the Cultivating Leaders podcast.
00:45:59
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Cultivating Leaders podcast brought to you by Agriculture Future of America. you've been here before, you know we value feedback as a gift. Please leave us a review and let us know how we're doing.