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Curating a Curious and Courageous Culture with Courtney White
9 Plays22 minutes ago
Courtney White, Head of HR for BASF Agricultural Solutions North America and Global Inclusion Officer, joins The Cultivating Leaders Podcast to dive into the power of inclusion and the value of Human Resources. Courtney shares how today’s most effective HR strategies go beyond hiring—they curate culture. He unpacks what it means to put people first, why timing matters just as much as talent, and how psychological safety drives retention and innovation. Plus, Courtney brings a powerful perspective on inclusion, showing that true belonging is built on mutual respect, everyday courage, and intentional leadership.
Courtney dives into:
- Inclusion is Rooted in Respect: it is a daily practice grounded in mutual respect and is upheld by everyday choices and courage
- The Value of People-centric HR: modern HR must go beyond filling roles to curating culture
- Leading with Courage and Curiosity: leaders must embrace inclusion, ask more than they tell and model respectful behavior
Whether you’re building a team or leading one, this episode offers fresh insights on growing people and purpose in tandem.
Connect with Courtney
- Connect on LinkedIn
- Follow BASF on LinkedIn
- Visit the BASF Website
Connect with AFA
- Follow us on LinkedIn
- Follow us on Instagram
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on TikTok
- Visit our Website
About The Cultivating Leaders Podcast
Real stories. Practical advice. Tangible growth. Join The Cultivating Leaders Podcast, brought to you by Agriculture Future of America, as we explore what it takes to lead in food, agriculture, and beyond. Whether you’re just starting out or leading at the highest level, this podcast is your go-to resource for leadership that matters. Listen now and start cultivating your leadership journey.
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Transcript
Strategy and People Alignment
00:00:02
Speaker
You can have the best strategy in the world, but without the right people to bring it to life, it'll never be what it can and it'll never come to life. I like to think about it in several ways that it's it's truly having the the right people in the right roles at the right time, which at the end of the day suggests that it's about alignment.
Podcast Introduction
00:00:20
Speaker
But here's what we know for those who you know are in the agriculture industry or honestly outside of it, you can't plant strawberries in sand and expect to harvest.
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome to the Cultivating Leaders podcast, where we get inside the minds of leaders to harvest great ideas and lessons that help you grow as a difference maker in food and agriculture. I'm your host and curiosity captain, Nicole Ersig.
Meet Courtney White
00:00:48
Speaker
Joining us today is Courtney White, the head of human resources for BASF Agricultural Solutions North America. With a career spanning over two decades in culture strategy and organizational change,
00:01:00
Speaker
Courtney brings a forward-thinking perspective to how companies attract, develop, and retain top talent. His leadership at BASF has helped shape a people-first culture rooted in innovation, inclusion, and impact.
00:01:14
Speaker
Through his experiences, Courtney developed a strong understanding of what it takes to build strong teams, the impact of an innovative HR team, and how inclusion drives business success.
00:01:25
Speaker
Courtney, welcome to the pod. What did we miss from your bio?
Creative Pursuits and Personal Growth
00:01:29
Speaker
Thanks, Nicole. um Listen, I think you covered the professional side, but outside of BASF to kind of honor the whole person concept, ah maybe a few more things.
00:01:39
Speaker
So I'm a bit of a creative explorer. I'm a personal growth strategist, always trying to help people navigate life's transitions with clarity, with confidence. I write, I photograph, I play music, and I'm passionate about creating environments that meet life where it is and maybe also where it's going. and And that happens through real estate. So I love the idea of structural design, et cetera.
00:02:04
Speaker
During the holidays, I love to cook. I volunteer. ah support the arts. And I've even been known to procure, restore, and appreciate a car or two. Classic or modern, doesn't matter. It's just this joy of seeing design, purpose, and performance come together.
00:02:21
Speaker
But probably most importantly, I'm a father of five. So I have two in college. two in post-grad, and one that's already working. So when you talk about or I talk about the next generation, i not just speaking professionally, I'm living it.
00:02:37
Speaker
ah Last but not least, I am a native of the Raleigh-Durham area in North Carolina. And yes, I am not only a graduate of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, I am a fan too.
00:02:50
Speaker
That about sums it up. I love that addition to your bio, Courtney. It just, I think, encompasses so much of who you are. And I did not know that you had five kids. Oh, my goodness.
00:03:01
Speaker
Well, I tell folks these days i have zero kids because everybody's an adult. And that comes with a reality as well. Some days I don't think they like it so much. But but anyway, we're working on it.
00:03:13
Speaker
Well, I love the perspective that it gives you for what we're going to talk about today. Before we dive in, the people listening to this podcast obviously are familiar with the agricultural
BASF Overview
00:03:21
Speaker
industry. So everyone has heard of BASF.
00:03:24
Speaker
Tell me what it is that BASF actually does. Some days I think it's easier to to talk about what we don't do. In the big scheme of things, though, BASF is the largest chemical company in the world.
00:03:35
Speaker
And um I think that's always a bit of ah a first wow for individuals, but we're in everything from the automotive space, of course, to agriculture with so much in between.
00:03:46
Speaker
When thinking about the agricultural industry, of course, we we span the the full gambit of crop protection to seeds, to seed care, seed treatment, vegetables, digital solutions. And honestly, it's about you know bringing all innovation possible for the customers that we're here to support.
00:04:04
Speaker
It's a lot of things to do, which also requires a lot of people. And you get to lead HR. Did you always envision that you would have a career in HR?
Career Path and Passion for HR
00:04:13
Speaker
Now, part of me, and maybe for the sake of the podcast, wants to say yes.
00:04:17
Speaker
But the part of me that lives authentically will absolutely answer with honesty and say no. I spent my entire life thinking that I was going to medical school. And ah my parents, you know, we had always prepared that this was going to be it.
00:04:32
Speaker
And then there was a time where I also veered into thinking that I was going to law school. And so if you were to actually even look at my high school yearbook, There is an interview that was done with me, and that's what it says. Courtney is going to focus on JDMD program and is going to go off and try to you know help find out how to make the world better.
00:04:57
Speaker
What i never realized is that I would still do them, but not in that traditional mindset, because in the space that I am in I am still helping people. I'm still fighting for equitable systems.
00:05:08
Speaker
And I'm by all means trying to make everything better for people. Yes, absolutely. Wow. Tell us just succinctly your
Career Journey in Agriculture
00:05:17
Speaker
career journey. How did you end up to where you are today leading HR at BASF?
00:05:21
Speaker
Well, I tell you, succinct is is probably the the hardest part of it in the big scheme of things. When I was an undergrad, like I'll give you a brief there, this's where I took my first course in organizational development.
00:05:33
Speaker
It sparked something for me. It immediately connected. And so while i didn't understand the role that it would eventually play, there was a lasting impression for what would play out. Prior to spending time back in HR for a concentrated period of time, I worked for a consultant in the HR space, focusing on talent acquisition, recruitment processes,
00:05:55
Speaker
and ultimately employee relations. After that, i actually transitioned out of the HR space and I went into sales. i was in sales for a number of years, moved from sales to marketing, then to business development and project management.
00:06:08
Speaker
Last but not least, I spent some time in communications before going back to human resources. Been in the agricultural industry now for probably about 15 years, if not more total. But my career spans several different functions and about six or seven different industries total.
00:06:24
Speaker
And admittedly, while my biases may start speaking, I've never found one that probably stands out to me as much as agriculture, which is probably why you've heard me reference the tenure that I did.
00:06:36
Speaker
Well, that is quite the career journey.
Strategic HR at BASF
00:06:38
Speaker
As part of your role today, you are focused on helping make sure you get all the great people to do all of the things, many things that BASF Agricultural Solutions does.
00:06:50
Speaker
So talk to me about your approach to recruiting the best talent. When I started in the field, now, didn't that sound like I'm about to date myself a little bit? but But anyway. It sounds like you have experience and wisdom to impart, is what I heard. I love the way you said that. And I'm going to embrace that for a moment. When I started, i really honestly do feel like human resources was was very reactive.
00:07:14
Speaker
And a lot of the focus was on filling roles versus if you flash forward to now, it's about being strategic. I mean, honestly, we're not just hiring, we're curating culture.
00:07:26
Speaker
We're using data, storytelling and empathy to attract people who want to grow with us, not just work with us. And this has been a shift. And I think this is how we really focus on, um you know, ensuring that our employee value proposition and experience is right at BASF.
00:07:45
Speaker
That's incredible. The way you just talked about that, it's not average to how many people or businesses approach recruitment or even employee journeys. You say it's a strategic choice for BASF. So what has brought you to this type of mindset and strategy for people recruitment and development?
00:08:04
Speaker
You know, it's interesting, right? Because you can have the best strategy in the world, but without the right people to bring it to life, It'll never be what it can and it'll never come to life.
00:08:14
Speaker
I like to think about it in several ways that it's it's truly having the the right people in the right roles at the right time, which which at the end of the day suggests that it's about alignment. But here's what we know for those who, you know, are in the agriculture industry or honestly outside of it. You can't plant strawberries in sand and expect to harvest.
00:08:36
Speaker
And so when you think about it's the same with people. So in ag, the right fit really means finding someone who understands both the science and the story. And what I also recognize is that for, you know, my own reality, when I shifted into this industry, and I think many find, you know, that you need to find an organization that meets your values, that meets where you think you're going, that it was a personal one for me, honestly. And so, you know, finding my way to ag wasn't something that I thought would occur.
00:09:05
Speaker
But when it did, it it just made so much sense. and And I'll pause there before I go into kind of the personal story about how I
Family Roots in Agriculture
00:09:11
Speaker
got here. Oh, and no, I want to know. Please continue. Yeah, I want to know the personal story.
00:09:16
Speaker
I'm the the great grandson of a tobacco grower and a harvest consultant from Virginia who moved to eastern North Carolina in 1891. He purchased 100 acres and became an independent farmer.
00:09:30
Speaker
Now, the operations were sunset before I was born, and I didn't really learn the depth of that time in my family's history until I was already working in this industry.
00:09:41
Speaker
That discovery made the work that I do that much more personal when I started working in ag. And so I think this goes back to that concept of what right means, because everyone is looking to identify, you know, with with what you're going to, you know, spend the majority of your time doing when you think about career, when you think about opportunity, et cetera.
00:10:03
Speaker
ah So it's just amazing how some of these, you know, connections happen. But it again, it still comes down to getting it right. One of the things that you just said that stuck out to me is not just right people. I think everyone talks about that. Like you've heard the get the right people in the right seats on the bus.
00:10:20
Speaker
But you said right people in the right roles at the right time. Why add at the right time? You know, um it's funny. Even if I look back at my own career.
00:10:33
Speaker
There's a ah certain hurriedness sometimes I think we feel to accomplish things, right? You sometimes find people who start in the organization today and next month want to be the CEO. You can admire the ambition, but but but it's a process, right?
00:10:48
Speaker
You ask anyone who's ever fallen down to fight a flight of steps how important steps are to follow. Because when you skip steps, sometimes that's how you end up in trouble.
00:11:01
Speaker
And so what we have to do is think about development that way from my perspective as well. And so people being in the the right roles at the right time all comes back to the way we do
Aligning Values with Work
00:11:12
Speaker
everything else. Do you have a plan that's in place?
00:11:15
Speaker
It's OK if the plan changes over time. But do you have a reason and a rationale as to why you're doing it time? And then can you appreciate the moment you're in as you're still working towards the moment that you want to be in next?
00:11:28
Speaker
and And to me, slowing down a little bit to slow to speed up has been something very critical that I had to learn over time, too, because admittedly, I was one of these ambitious people that wanted it all immediately.
00:11:41
Speaker
And what I had to do is probably redefine what all meant. So what does all mean to you? You know, at at at one point, it probably was working really hard and trying to come to the the point that, again, i'm I'm getting accolades and achievement.
00:11:57
Speaker
What I end up realizing, though, is that in life, family is very important as well. My values are important. And ultimately, getting it right is finding the balance that I strike between my investments professionally and my investments personally.
00:12:12
Speaker
I love BASF. I love the other companies that I've worked for. But I also know as I reflect back on my life, it won't be the meeting that I missed that makes the resonating point, right? It won't be the thing that I think about. It's not the meeting.
00:12:26
Speaker
It will be those moments with family, with friends, in the community, et cetera. So finding a way to integrate all of that, kind of that, again, whole person concept to me is key.
00:12:37
Speaker
And also one of the things that we really, really talk about in this company, it's It's what are we doing for the workforce? What are we doing in the workplace? And also how are we managing in the marketplace and community?
00:12:48
Speaker
Love that. Okay, so we were talking about getting the right people. What do you think are some of the characteristics of the right people in the talent pool today?
BASF's Core Values and Interview Tips
00:12:58
Speaker
So I can say I, but I really mean we as a company.
00:13:02
Speaker
We look for curiosity, we look for courage, and we look for coachability. The true understanding of skills can be taught. i've I've seen it, I've proven it, and lived it myself.
00:13:13
Speaker
But passion and purpose, that's what we really hire for at BASF. So how do you wade through the candidate pool to find people with those things? Like, how what do you do to identify this is someone who has curiosity, who has courage, who is coachable?
00:13:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think what one of the first things is, you know, we have to go beyond the paper. So I know people spend a tremendous amount of time trying to make the perfect resume, trying to make the perfect cover letter.
00:13:41
Speaker
and And sometimes one of the first things I do is ask people to put that to the side. Yes, that may get someone notice of you sometimes, but honestly, I want to put that to the side and ask you to be the living resume. You know, let's just have a conversation and let's talk and tell me about yourself, not in the words that someone has coached you to use, but in your authenticity, let down the shields and just kind of be yourself.
00:14:06
Speaker
Some people say, how do I get to the point where I can talk to you though? and And that just comes through networking. I mean, this is even going back to the power of organizations like AFA, where, you know, you you come together and you get to, you know, mix with industry professionals and settings that have been procured just for you to connect.
00:14:26
Speaker
To me, those are the powerful moments. That's how we look for it. What questions am I being asked? You know, are you willing to, again, let down the shields to the point that you can tell me some things that you wouldn't think it typically OK to say?
00:14:40
Speaker
Not to be rude, but honestly, just to own your reality. That's courage. And then coachability just says, we all recognize we don't know everything. And do we have the flexibility and an adaptability to be okay with that?
00:14:54
Speaker
And then what do we do next? And if we have those types of things and it happens on both sides, again, we we know that we are okay. What I just heard you say, Courtney, is that the human aspect of work and of finding a job is most critical today. And I think it's it's really applicable in a season where it feels like we have so much technology to connect us.
00:15:18
Speaker
And you may get through with the resume, but it's the actual in-person connections that matter, at least as you guys look for who's the best in the talent pool.
00:15:29
Speaker
Agreed. Agreed. So what do you say to anyone who's like very discouraged by the fact that like, oh, I've put out a hundred resumes and I feel like I'm getting denied by ai is filtering it on the back end.
00:15:41
Speaker
You're an hr professional. Is that really what's happening? And what would you say to someone who maybe has that mindset? Yeah. First thing is don't be discouraged.
00:15:52
Speaker
Is it happening? It could be. I honestly would say it could be. Organizations are are trying to invest in in technology these days to, quote unquote, find the best of the best. And and people are using a number of immersive strategies in order to do that.
00:16:06
Speaker
And the reality is, if they're doing it, what impact does that have? And so the the the reaction is not to stop. The reaction is to suggest that if this is occurring, then what do I do next?
00:16:18
Speaker
And so that would be it. Don't use the same strategy. if If just submitting your resume is not working, and and honestly, sorry to give you this example, but it's kind of like the people who say, you know, well, i sent two emails. Well, listen, if you sent two emails, it might be time to shift and do a different communication strategy, right?
00:16:37
Speaker
You might have to pick up the phone and call. You might have to find someone who knows the person you're trying to get to and network differently. But that would be my response to anyone who's going through it.
00:16:48
Speaker
Don't keep employing the same strategies. Change the strategy in order to get a different outcome. And the reality is if that second strategy doesn't work, then go to the third. Some of this is about grit.
00:16:58
Speaker
Some of this is about being resilient and understanding that you may get 100 no's, but some of those no's are just leading you to the right yes.
00:17:09
Speaker
and And some of what happens is it's not happening now, but really that's with a not yet type of mentality to me. The question is, how much do you care about it to continue?
00:17:20
Speaker
And that's something people will want to be realistic with themselves about. Great
Perseverance and Adaptability
00:17:24
Speaker
advice. I think for anyone who is struggling, I think it's easy if you look at some of the job market right now, whether it's layoff, it can feel really ah overwhelming to search for a job right now. This was happening, if you'll permit me for a minute, when I was in undergrad. I'll never forget it.
00:17:39
Speaker
I saw of friends who graduated, you know, one to two years ahead of me, still at the same career fairs that I was in And I was trying to figure out, okay, now what's going on here? Like everybody's coming back.
00:17:50
Speaker
and And they were telling horror stories. It was, you know, it's hard out there. Oh, my gosh, I can't find this. And so honestly, it did start to weigh on me. And I started to wonder if they're having that ah experience and they're, you know, at one to two years, what's going to be my experience?
00:18:05
Speaker
So as I just talked about the pivot, right, the the thing you do differently. Well, the first thing I did was I started working differently. And so um I got part time roles and then I even had a full time job ah while I was in school, not because and necessarily needed to but because I thought that it would make a difference. I didn't want to come out not being able to point to skill sets and things that I had delivered and done beyond the classroom.
00:18:30
Speaker
And here's what I can tell you happened at the end. I interviewed the Friday before. graduation. I graduated on Sunday. I got the job offer on Monday. And then I started the the Monday after that.
00:18:43
Speaker
And so what I also recognize is that, yes, it could be a number of people's story, but it doesn't mean it's going to be yours. Oh, I love. Yes. That, that advice Works across the board, whether you're job hunting or dealing with anything else. Yeah, just because it's someone else's story doesn't mean it's going to be yours. i love that.
00:19:03
Speaker
Great quote there, Courtney. Okay, so back to BASF and your guys' talent development program. What is one key tool that y'all deploy that you think keeps people at BASF?
Psychological Safety at Work
00:19:15
Speaker
It might be one, and I'll be curious to know how many tell you similar about the tools that But the best tool I think we have that keeps people is psychological safety. When people feel safe to speak up, to mess up and even level up, they stay. i think it's that simple.
00:19:35
Speaker
Yes. Okay. For anyone who's who's listening who's not familiar with psychological safety, I know you just defined like what it kind of feels like, but can you go further, give us a deeper definition of of what psychological safety is and how do you have that as like a trickle down? Because that's not something that, hey, as head of h r like you can practice psychological safety.
00:19:54
Speaker
Like that's got to be a cultural thing across the board that managers are doing. I think you're right. I tell people, even when it comes to the strategic things that we talk about, managers are the difference makers, right? that's That's where the ownership really is, who people trust most, our biggest way of of making culture happen and the organization.
00:20:15
Speaker
And in order to do that, this this notion of psychological safety comes back to the fact that people need to be in an environment where they are unencumbered by barriers to being able to say what they believe.
00:20:29
Speaker
So the first is, do you have you know feedback mechanisms in place that allow people to to feel comfortable and confident that just by saying something, they're not on the quote unquote list? And I've heard about the list in every company, right?
00:20:43
Speaker
Or somebody tells you, or don't say that, it's not the political thing to do, et cetera. I firmly believe you can say anything that you need to, how you say it is the difference. And yet again, I'll come back to organizations like AFA that work with the stakeholder base to talk about how to have conversations in an authentic way, et cetera. And that's what makes a difference.
00:21:05
Speaker
But the work doesn't just stop with AFA. It's got to continue when people come into organizations. Then they have to see that when they do speak up, that there's not a consequence that's negative as a result of that, that they are still supported, that that we can still move forward.
00:21:20
Speaker
And if they do mess up, how we correct that with them is different, too. So this is about people being able to believe anything that they need to believe, knowing that at the end of the day, the common thing that we're looking for with psychological safety is mutual respect.
00:21:39
Speaker
The individual having respect for what they say, how they say it, and the impact that it can have on others and the person who's on the receiving end doing the same, which then probably comes back to empathy as well.
00:21:52
Speaker
And so this notion of psychological safety plus empathy in the workplace to me is what makes us who we are. Nobody needs to feel the weight of wearing a mask or doing anything else that says um that just who you are isn't good enough because that's who we're hiring you, not who we think you need to be.
00:22:11
Speaker
I think that is such a unique perspective. and Why does BASF feel that like that is so important to getting the work done? Years ago, i did a talk, if you will,
00:22:25
Speaker
And look, i'm I'm going to make an old reference here, so I'm sorry, but maybe people have seen it because i think it came back. but But I talk about the life and these, you know, Scooby-Doo moments that people have where basically you're always trying to figure out what's really going on, only to find out at the end that you you you knew the culprit the whole time. Right. So you you're unmasking what's really happening.
00:22:44
Speaker
and And I think that what we've tapped into at BASF in the big scheme of things, is the fact that the weight that people feel to perform themselves is a time waste.
00:23:00
Speaker
And people put so much time, effort, and energy into thinking what's the right thing to say, the right thing to wear, the right thing to do, that that's time that's taken away from their ability to innovate, from their ability to to work differently, et cetera.
00:23:18
Speaker
And so our goal has been to ah chip away and break away at anything that inhibits people from spending the majority of their time just focusing on how to be the best at getting better.
00:23:31
Speaker
And if we can do that, where they know that we're not here treating them as robots or mechanical, that we're thinking about them as professionals, but also as people, then honestly, the rest happens because they want to be here. They want to give their utmost.
00:23:46
Speaker
And that translates into impact. And so that's one of the reasons why we feel like we've we've cracked the code. And this is not about us being perfect, but it is about us being understanding of where our imperfections are and then how to manage those also.
00:24:01
Speaker
Ah, yes. Because we're never going to be perfect. A key part of work, as we've talked about, is humans and humans make mistakes. And so being able to go in with the mindset of you are going to make mistakes, we as an organization are going to make mistakes, but here's how we're going to act when those happen.
00:24:19
Speaker
That's just managing for what the reality is versus trying to perform to some unrealistic standard. So I think with that mindset, obviously, inclusion is an important piece of that.
00:24:31
Speaker
So talk to me about BASF's approach to inclusion.
Inclusion and Respect at BASF
00:24:35
Speaker
We've talked about why it's important, but creating a place where people can fully be themselves no matter who they are. So we we just talked about this word that I'll come back to in a minute, respect.
00:24:43
Speaker
The first thing I would say is inclusion isn't just a buzzword. but I do feel like everybody's using it a lot in a number of places. But the reality is it's not a buzzword. What it really is about is showing people they matter, that their voice counts and that they belong.
00:25:00
Speaker
So I remember a quiet afternoon. i was walking through Winnipeg in Canada and i was standing in front of the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. And on the steps outside the museum,
00:25:13
Speaker
A simple phrase was etched into the stone and the concrete, and it just said, respect this place, respect each other. That moment stayed with me because to me, that's what inclusion really is, respecting the space we share and the people we share it with.
00:25:33
Speaker
It's a belief that I carry personally and one that we live every day at BASF. We are shaped by diverse perspectives. And we know that inclusion can't just be a checkbox, but it has to be a commitment.
00:25:47
Speaker
It has to be a practice and it has to be a way forward. And so inclusion to me and BASF is honestly just coming down to this notion of respect. You make it sound so simple, Courtney.
00:25:59
Speaker
Why do you think we make it so hard? Honestly, i don't know. I think that we we all have to first have a level of self-awareness in order to get to the point that we can you know see beyond into you know distilling things down to to what's really going on.
00:26:17
Speaker
This is no different than sometimes when people talk about treating symptoms versus root cause. And and so to me, I think as practitioners in the space, organizations, or even individuals, we always have to have a root cause mentality ah to make sure that we are are getting to the basis of what's happening.
00:26:38
Speaker
Have you ever experienced a time, but whether it's at BASF or somewhere else, where it would have just been easier to sweep things under the rug or overlook some of these things or not have the uncomfortable conversations that I feel like are are necessary for the culture that you're describing?
00:26:55
Speaker
Yes. I've been at several places where it was the easy thing to do. but The challenge is for me, and maybe it's not a challenge because as I've gotten older, I've learned to embrace it.
00:27:06
Speaker
the The uncomfortable moments are the moments that cause us to grow. And the reality is sometimes you have to speak up and speak out because it also helps someone else have the courage to do it.
00:27:18
Speaker
And I'll probably, unfortunately, take the the the scenic route on this one, but it's just because it feels vivid. But I was arriving to a meeting. The meeting had been in progress, different company.
00:27:29
Speaker
The meeting had been in progress for, let's just say, an hour and a half. Everyone knew I would have a delayed arrival, et cetera. So i walk in There were about 18 professionals sitting around the table talking about a topic, something that was happening with an IT system that we purchased.
00:27:45
Speaker
hey So there was a consultant in from the outside, and the consultant was sharing perspective on why the issues were occurring. About five minutes into the conversation of being in the room, the consultant said, well, I can tell you what the problems are.
00:28:02
Speaker
said, well, one of the problems that you have is the way that certain ethnic groups name their children. And so i I paused and I was thinking, you know, you look around the room. OK, did everybody hear that or was that just me?
00:28:15
Speaker
And then he started to name ethnic groups, various ethnic groups. We're talking about adults, actually. weren't even talking about children, but I guess he's trying to say it starts early in life. I wasn't really clear where he was going with it.
00:28:28
Speaker
And then he gives examples. And so as I sit there and I look around, no one's saying anything. Now, it wasn't my meeting, but I waited about 60 seconds and then I stopped the conversation and I said, sir, um first, I want to be clear.
00:28:43
Speaker
If no one else in this room is offended, I am. So I'm not sure what's happening here. But but admittedly, I find it inappropriate for you to talk about any groups of people and how they do these things, etc. And I don't believe your purpose here is to have that type of discussion. Your purpose here is to help create a solution.
00:29:01
Speaker
And I don't think the solution is going back in time and telling people to name their children differently. I said, you know, that doesn't make any sense. Well, someone else in the room says, oh, it's OK. It's OK. He didn't mean anything by it. It's fine, et cetera.
00:29:14
Speaker
And I said, no, it's not fine. And no, we won't continue. And honestly, before you know it, Nicole, I shut down a meeting that wasn't even mine. And I told everybody, I think it's time for a break and we'll we'll take 15 minutes.
00:29:28
Speaker
And then I walked out of the room and I went to the senior person in that department and I shared what happened. And I also said, listen, may not be my meeting, may not be my room, but as someone who is a part of this organization, this is not okay.
00:29:41
Speaker
This person should no longer return. Doesn't change our business with the company, but all of this is not fine. Well, why do I tell the story? There was a person who reported to me in that meeting who walked over to me afterwards and said,
00:29:57
Speaker
I learned a lot in this moment. And then they told me about the things that happened the hour and a half before I got to the meeting and all of these, the things this person said, who basically went around the world and talked about people around the world in in other ways that were non-inclusive and said, and I sat there and she said, I sat there and I just felt uncomfortable, but I didn't think I could say anything because it wasn't my meeting.
00:30:24
Speaker
And I saw you walk in And it wasn't about who's beating it was. It was about the fact that it was a shared moment that we all owned. And anybody could have done that and should have done that. And I will never let it happen again.
00:30:36
Speaker
That's why we do it. And I'm sorry for the long story, but admittedly, I've never forgotten it. It stayed with me. And I think we all have to have those courage moments where we stand up and speak for what needs to be said.
00:30:48
Speaker
Thanks. Oh, yeah. Thank you for sharing that story. I think you don't always have the moment afterwards that you did, right? Where someone's like, hey, I'm really glad you said this because i was thinking the same thing.
00:30:59
Speaker
But typically, even if someone doesn't come tell you that, those moments of courage are are often speaking for other people in the room and can show other people how to act in those situations. So Great story and great example.
00:31:12
Speaker
What advice do you have for leaders who are looking to build more inclusive teams and cultures? And if you're okay with addressing it, Courtney, especially in the like just climate that we're in today around the word even inclusion.
00:31:26
Speaker
Advice. Start with curiosity. I think it's that simple. Ask more than you tell. And remember, similar to what we just talked about, silence isn't inclusion.
00:31:39
Speaker
And I think that's sometimes what people reflect on In our you know current environment where there are varying perspectives around the world, the reality to me is there have always been varying perspectives around the world.
00:31:55
Speaker
It may feel more acute right now because in some cases it's transitioning from discussion to loss. or policy or something of that nature where we all have to, of course, be compliant when it becomes you know law and things of that nature.
00:32:14
Speaker
But the fact that this is happening, i honestly don't think is different than any time in our world's history. It's perhaps just how it feels in the moment as it feels heightened, connected, et cetera.
00:32:28
Speaker
The other final reality and and comment is just this. Sometimes in the way people are reacting to it, I think it's just because it's is happening closer to maybe where you live.
00:32:40
Speaker
But the reality is while people were living in their comfort, it was happening somewhere else in the world to a population and a group of people as well, too. And so in we have to always remember the discomfort that we can have in a moment somebody else is always always having.
00:32:54
Speaker
And so this is why we think overall it still comes back to respect.
Global HR Practices
00:33:00
Speaker
and making sure that we respect that people are entitled to believe whatever they believe.
00:33:05
Speaker
But how we connect to manage that dynamic with one another is really where the power is. Do you feel like that value of respect translates well across borders? I mean, you look at BASF as an organization, you're global organization.
00:33:20
Speaker
i'm sure you, enter even though you're focused on North America, I'm sure you interact daily with colleagues who are either from different countries or in a different country. what What's interesting is this is probably ah first North American role in some period of time. So i had to teach to your point, maybe what others don't know, too, is I am also the global inclusion leader and officer for the organization, too.
00:33:44
Speaker
So this is something that but I live and breathe on a very regular basis. I think like anything, there are moments where it doesn't feel as though it's crossing borders, but it is universal truth where respect.
00:33:59
Speaker
is stated the way that it is. And this is why it's on the steps at the Human Rights Museum, because it is a universal truth that everybody should be able to understand around the world.
00:34:09
Speaker
The rest is just how we dial into it. Okay. I am going to zoom out with a completely different question, Courtney. I think h r maybe gets a bad rap when it comes to the role that you play in an organization.
00:34:23
Speaker
in your own words, Why is HR so important? Here's your opportunity to get on a soapbox and say, like, why is HR important and why should it maybe not get the the bad reputation that it does sometimes?
00:34:35
Speaker
Yeah, I'll. um ah Yeah, sorry. You told me I can get on my soapbox for a minute. It's so funny. One of the things that I love to do with employees, whether they are interns all the way through, you know, a very experienced hires, is I always what what is what is h r OK, and I always love the answer because usually there isn't one.
00:34:58
Speaker
People just get kind of quiet. So they aren't really sure a lot. So then I switch the question and say, well, what does HR do? Inevitably, somebody says higher. And I said, OK, and if things aren't going so well, what else does HR do?
00:35:12
Speaker
And then you get the one whisper where somebody says fire. And I said, all right, good. But is that the truth?
00:35:22
Speaker
I said, so for anyone in here that's worked for an organization, who did you report to? And somebody will say my manager. OK, so well, in the process of hiring, we refer to that person as a hiring manager.
00:35:36
Speaker
Right. And you report to them. They brought you into the organization. Yes. But you just said HR hires. So how is it that your manager hires you when you tell me HR did it? And then people stop.
00:35:48
Speaker
I said, the other side of that coin is what you also said. H.R. fires. Right. i said, but that same hiring manager becomes a firing manager if things don't go well.
00:35:59
Speaker
And so it's it's technically your management, your line management that's making that decision. So H.R. isn't hiring and firing. What does H.R. r do? And then people go to silence. And so the reality is it people don't know.
00:36:12
Speaker
And so that's where I get to step in and answer the question that you just asked so appropriately and eloquently. And what I often say to people is that HR is a place of facilitation. Yes, there's a compliance aspect to it, but we are about helping to create an experience, a culture that enables what we're trying to solve.
00:36:34
Speaker
We are facilitators. We are people that catalyze and um and teach how the organization really needs to collaborate. At the end of the day, the reason I say HR is important is just this.
00:36:46
Speaker
Because every business problem exists, what we have to realize is that every business problem is a people problem in disguise. HR is where a culture, strategy, and then very importantly, humanity intersect.
00:37:02
Speaker
That's what the role of this function and organization is. I think that paints a very, going to say exciting, but also important and just like weighty in a good way vision of what HR and should be in an organization.
00:37:18
Speaker
So if I'm a leader who maybe doesn't work in an organization like this and I want to be a culture changer, what would you tell me that I should do? Yeah, you know, I think you you said it earlier too, and I appreciate that so much. The reality is everybody works in nature because it's a shared responsibility. I remember i went to ah a conference again. I was just kind of talking about the role of HR as a much longer kind of keynote.
00:37:42
Speaker
And the person who who spoke out to me said, I didn't realize I'm an HR too. He was an economist, right? He was like, i'm an HR. Everything you just said applies to me. And so I love that. And I think that's it. That as a manager, as a leader in an organization, you don't get to transfer your accountability and responsibility to another function.
00:38:01
Speaker
You have to lean in and own what your role is as the person who is the the editor, if you will, for your team, the one who gets to prioritize the messaging, the one who gets to prioritize what happens and doesn't happen.
00:38:14
Speaker
People think it's somebody else's responsibility. and And so what I would say is look to self before you look past self as the key to what any leader can do. And it doesn't matter if somebody else is doing or not. You be the one that that gets it started.
00:38:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's great advice. Self-leadership first. Okay, so we are going to go into our rapid fire segment, and we're just going to try to answer these questions as quick as you can, is what I will
Retention vs. Hiring
00:38:39
Speaker
say.
00:38:39
Speaker
Courtney, what is harder, hiring great people or retaining them? Retaining. Hiring is like a first date. Retention is the relationship. I always do this on a rapid fire. It never becomes rapid fire.
00:38:51
Speaker
Okay. I need you to say more about that. Retaining them is harder. What do people need? What do leaders need to do to retain the best talent? Yeah. I think it goes back to what we talked about earlier, right? The the retention comes from this ecosystem. we We have an engagement model and it's making sure that every part of this engagement model is optimized.
00:39:10
Speaker
That includes psychological, physical safety. Yes, it's our reward strategy, but it's also you know the fact that people understand their purpose in the organization. And so we've we've got to be hitting on all of these things.
00:39:22
Speaker
The reason I say hiring is a first date is because, look, maybe some other people have different experiences. But when I go back in my mind about first dates, everybody's on their first behavior. And most people call that onboarding, right? Oh, my gosh, you come in and I have just joined the greatest thing. So you're in that first honeymoon period and everything feels romantic.
00:39:41
Speaker
Three years later, and the same you know wide-eyed, you know bright-eyed person is feeling... you know fill not the same and is now feeling a little lost. And like, what am I supposed to do?
00:39:54
Speaker
And so what we recognize is that the maintenance on the relationship is is as important as getting started. And that's why I say retention is harder because as what you have to recognize is the same thing you sometimes recognize in dating.
00:40:08
Speaker
And that is you have a value proposition, But there's somebody else out there that has one too. And somebody waiting for you to mess up sometimes so they can swoop in and get the person that you have.
00:40:20
Speaker
always say for those people that I want stay tied to, not on my watch. I like it. Okay, ah back to rapid fire. And I'll do my best to not ask follow-up questions. If you could go back to yourself as a young leader, maybe someone in your first management role, what would you tell yourself?
00:40:38
Speaker
Don't chase titles. Chase learning. And trust my instincts. What are you most proud of? Building teams where people feel safe to be themselves. What is one leadership trend do you think needs to
Critique of Hustle Culture
00:40:50
Speaker
end?
00:40:50
Speaker
Hustle culture. Burnout is not a badge of honor. It's a warning sign. And I think some people don't understand that. Preach. What is one word you would use to describe the future of agriculture?
00:41:03
Speaker
Regenerative. What is one leadership tool, book, podcast, framework, anything that you think everyone should check out? This one, because I'm a student of learning, one book that is on my desk, so it currently means that I've just finished reading it, I'll hold up, is Trust and Inspire.
00:41:21
Speaker
It is a book by Stephen m R. Covey. I do think everyone should check it out. And it's ultimately about how great leaders unleash greatness in others. which is one of the the primary responsibilities.
00:41:33
Speaker
I just recently did a post. And in that post, I talked about the fact that, you know, we have to be careful as leaders that we don't let our own egos move from this notion of being noble to something that's unhealthy, where you allow people want to ultimately delegate up what should absolutely stay with them.
00:41:53
Speaker
And so your role is about other people and less about yourself. So to me, that's why that's powerful. Oh, man. I mean, i could I could go down a whole rabbit hole on what you just said about delegating up.
00:42:04
Speaker
I think that is something a lot of people don't even think about. And even leaders, right? Like, when is someone delegating up and when should you delegate back down? Very cool thing to think about. And I'm going to check out that book. At AFA, Courtney, we love hot takes. So unconventional opinions, bold opinions.
Innovation in Agriculture
00:42:20
Speaker
What is a hot take that you have about leadership or the future of agriculture? Let's stay on leadership for a minute because we were just talking about it. This is something that I was just reflecting on recently too. But anyway, ah leadership isn't about being the loudest voice.
00:42:35
Speaker
It's about being the best listener. And if you will permit, when we think about ag, I still think we are fighting the way we market. it For anybody who may be listening, who is playing from what I'll say old tapes. And if you know BASF well, you know, we used to do really good with tapes.
00:42:55
Speaker
But at the same time, that wasn't our future. And so the reality of ag is it's not old school. Ag is the next frontier of innovation. We are not just growing crops. We are growing solutions.
00:43:09
Speaker
And that's what everybody needs to think about related to ag. Mm, snaps. Ah, okay, Courtney, I have loved this conversation. i hope our listeners have as well.
00:43:20
Speaker
You are so fun to listen to and full of so many great stories. So before we wrap up, AFA is all about building bridges.
Connect with Courtney
00:43:27
Speaker
So where can people connect with you and learn more about you and what you do?
00:43:31
Speaker
Thanks so much, Nicole. I feel the same. It's been an absolute pleasure. I'd say LinkedIn is the best place to watch what goes on. I try to post regularly and right now have a new kind of take on leadership that I'm posting regularly called Uncommon Leadership, where you'll get more lessons, real life examples, and then most importantly, recommended ways of managing.
00:43:54
Speaker
Also, I'm always up for a conversation, especially about leadership culture, the future of work, or just life. Now, because I travel frequently, ah love it when I'm home too. So if anybody's ever in North Carolina, I'll reach out.
00:44:06
Speaker
It's funny, I've traveled the world only to learn that you don't have to travel in order to create lasting memories. So I try to create them wherever I am. Great piece of advice to land on, Courtney. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the Cultivating Leaders podcast.
00:44:21
Speaker
Also, for anyone who's listening, i do highly recommend that you go follow him on LinkedIn. I've been following you lately, Courtney, and I love a lot of what you've been sharing. So continued learnings there and appreciate you taking time to teach our audience. So thank you, Courtney.
00:44:35
Speaker
Thank you. Thanks for listening to the cultivating leaders podcast brought to you by agriculture future of America. you've been here before, you know, we value feedback as a gift. Please leave us a review and let us know how we're doing.