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Empowering Tough Conversations with Ashley Collins
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There is power in navigating high-stakes and emotionally charged conversations with clarity, confidence and humanity
Ashley Collins, CEO of the North Carolina Peanut Growers Association, joins The Cultivating Leaders Podcast to break down why honest dialogue matters. She provides tools so leaders can prepare, respond and grow through high-stakes conversations. With experience leading growers, navigating board dynamics and shaping conversations across agriculture, Ashley brings a grounded and practical perspective to those conversations we often avoid.
Ashley explores:
- Preparing with purpose: how to think through your intent, plan your words and choose the right environment before a tough conversation begins.
- Staying composed: when the stakes get high, she has the tools for pausing, asking better questions and prioritizing psychological.
- Leading dialogue in agriculture: why family legacies, tradition and generational change make crucial conversations essential.
This episode challenges you to rethink how you show up in tension, grow your communication skillset and lead people forward even when the conversation gets uncomfortable.
Want to hear more from Ashley? Check out her blog here!
Connect with Ashley
- Connect on LinkedIn
- Follow NC Peanut on Instagram
- Follow NC Peanut on Facebook
- Visit NC Peanut’s website
Connect with AFA
- Follow us on LinkedIn
- Follow us on Instagram
- Like us on Facebook
- Follow us on TikTok
- Visit our Website
About The Cultivating Leaders Podcast
Real stories. Practical advice. Tangible growth. Join The Cultivating Leaders Podcast, brought to you by Agriculture Future of America, as we explore what it takes to lead in food, agriculture, and beyond. Whether you’re just starting out or leading at the highest level, this podcast is your go-to resource for leadership that matters. Listen now and start cultivating your leadership journey.
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Transcript
Understanding Conversation Intent
00:00:02
Speaker
What is the intent of the conversation is just as important as what is the content of the conversation. Because when you are thinking with intent in mind, you hopefully are going to be sharper the words that you use and making sure that you're not accusatory um in that and that you're opening that dialogue up.
Introduction to Cultivating Leaders Podcast
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to the Cultivating Leaders podcast, where we get inside the minds of leaders to harvest great ideas and lessons that help you grow as a difference maker in food and agriculture. I'm your host and curiosity captain, Nicole Ercig.
00:00:44
Speaker
Today, we're cracking open a conversation about crucial conversations, those high stakes, high emotion moments that can either strengthen or strain relationships. Today's guest is Ashley Collins, the CEO of the North Carolina Peanut Growers Association.
00:00:59
Speaker
Her world is full of passionate voices, competing priorities, and plenty of people who care deeply about the outcome, which means she doesn't just talk about crucial conversations, she has them every day.
00:01:10
Speaker
Ashley, welcome to the pod. Thanks. Happy to be here. We're so glad you're here because one of the things I also miss from your bio is your connection to AFA and you are ah an alumni of ah working there. so i am an alumni of working there and I think that, I mean, I hate that I didn't get that experience during in undergrad, but I certainly got my cup filled being on staff at AFA and I'm always so happy to meet students who've gone who did get that opportunity and go through the program. It does It's a phenomenal stepping stone in your college career. and
00:01:43
Speaker
Okay, so outside of, I explained your job today a little bit, but but what did I miss from your bio or what wouldn't people know about you if they just looked you up on LinkedIn?
Ashley Collins' Background and Connection to Agriculture
00:01:52
Speaker
Well, I will say I've been married for 17 years.
00:01:56
Speaker
My husband is also in the agricultural industry. He's in cotton. And if you're listening today and you know anything about peanuts, you know, cotton and peanuts go together. ah They're a very strong or rotational partners.
00:02:09
Speaker
um He is the state cotton specialist here in North Carolina. So he's more on the research side of the industry, whereas I'm a little bit more on the people side that we both work with people.
00:02:21
Speaker
um And so but to the topic of also share that because when you're talking about having critical conversations and authentic conversations with people, certainly plays into your personal life and your married life just as much as it does your work life.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yes, your partner gets to hear about everything, all the crucial conversations that you get to have every day. Yes, it's like it's practice, you know, every day. And sometimes, too, I mean, like, if you, if you, I feel like if you can get good at those crucial conversations in your marriage or in your relationship, that, that can, it can benefit in both areas of life, right? Like, your personal life and your professional life.
00:02:57
Speaker
Yep, absolutely. Awesome. So before we we dive in give me a little bit of a scope of what your job looks like and and what the Peanut Growers Association does in North Carolina.
00:03:09
Speaker
Sure.
Role in NC Peanut Growers Association
00:03:10
Speaker
Well, um and this is what I love talking about, the peanut industry. I've been in this position for a little over four years and am often accused of being quite ah excited and energetic about the peanut industry. So thank you for the opportunity to talk about that for a second.
00:03:28
Speaker
ah North Carolina ranks third in the nation in the production of peanuts, and ah we are the number one producer of the ballpark peanuts. So if you go to a major league baseball game and crack open an in-shell roasted peanut, it's very likely that that came out of the dirt right here in North Carolina. So in my position, i work for the approximately 650 different peanut growers that are in our state.
00:03:54
Speaker
We produce peanuts in over 30 different counties, which is about a third of North Carolina. And I report directly to a board of 27, an executive committee of nine that I work with ah most regularly. But I tell people I wear three different hats in that position.
00:04:11
Speaker
One of those is just general promotion. So making sure that the public knows that we grow peanuts in North Carolina, that they're nutritious and flavorful, and that they grow under the ground. A lot of people don't realize that.
00:04:23
Speaker
And just educating about general peanut production to the to the consumer. We do a little bit of recipes and sharing with people how to utilize them um and the nutritional benefits.
00:04:33
Speaker
also do some promotional education to growers, ah making sure that they're up to date on what's happening in the industry and how they can be sustainable ah as a producer.
00:04:46
Speaker
And then the second hat I wear is research.
Public Breeding and Advocacy for Peanuts
00:04:49
Speaker
So a lot of people may not realize that peanuts are publicly bred. So when you think about corn and beans and cotton, that breeding takes place at the corporate level, at one of the the larger ah entities that many of us know people or maybe some of you work work with.
00:05:07
Speaker
um And so but peanuts are publicly bred at the university level. And so we fund the research at our land grant university to help continue to develop the powerful peanut that goes in the ground ah for the future, as well as other agronomic practices to help growers be successful in producing their crop.
00:05:27
Speaker
um So that's the research hat. And then the third hat is advocacy, um which is the term that I use to describe the work we do in the political realm. So some of that happens at the state level, but primarily at the federal level.
00:05:41
Speaker
advocating for farmer programs that help these guys stay in business and making sure that those who are elected to represent the growers, that they understand the profession and appreciate it.
00:05:53
Speaker
That's amazing. I love your passion for peanuts. I now have a fun fact ah with the ballpark peanut. And ah before we hopped on, um i was sharing, I had never seen how peanuts were or grown.
00:06:06
Speaker
And so I know there's a lot of fellow ag nerds listening. And it is a very cool crop to see growing, to see harvested. It's just, it's different. And it's awesome to hear your passion for it too, Ashley.
00:06:19
Speaker
It is. It is. It's so cool to when people understand. i love, i mean, that's like the the highlight of my day. A lot of days when I meet somebody who is not familiar with the production practice of digging peanuts, flipping them,
00:06:32
Speaker
ah letting them sit on top of the ground for a couple days and then coming back through with a different piece of machinery to harvest them ah because they're just fascinated. And another thing about our growers is if you get into growing peanuts, you're committed because like a couple other crops that are out there, the equipment you use in peanut production is specific to peanuts and that's it.
00:06:55
Speaker
So i I love working with the guys that I, the the farmers that I work for because they are so committed ah to the crop as well. Yeah, yeah. it so It's such a cool crop, honestly. So if anyone wants to go down a deep dive on peanuts, I could spend this entire podcast probably just learning from Ashley. But we want to talk about crucial conversations that can help in leadership conversations too, Ashley.
Importance of Crucial Conversations and DEI
00:07:20
Speaker
So this is something you have spent a little bit of time studying and obviously putting into practice.
00:07:26
Speaker
But before we dive into like how you've applied it, Tell me, was there a moment that you realized like, hey, I need to strengthen this skill for my own leadership journey or my my own professional growth?
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah, um absolutely. i would say I would attribute that a lot to my experience working with AFA. um The time that that I came to work with the organization was right kind of when we began to see in our industry, luckily, a larger commitment to DEI and inclusivity and um having crucial conversations across the board.
00:08:03
Speaker
And I was working with the student leaders in my the role that I had when I was with AFA. And ah not only were we engaged, we were doing some of the the training um on emotional intelligence and ah different aspects that we were, the IDI assessment, that was when we first started offering that for student leaders. And I'm not sure if they even still do that. But um so that was creating a lot of dialogue amongst the student leaders and then from the student leaders to the other students that we were bringing to AFA experiences. And so as the person working with those students, I wanted to get ah more equipped and
00:08:45
Speaker
myself, but then also learn how to equip those student leaders. And, you know, just having gone through a career prior to coming to AFA and having performance reviews and some of those not being ah the best, then, you know, wanting to be able to improve myself and then also get good at having those conversations in the future.
00:09:09
Speaker
how would you describe one of these high stakes conversations that maybe take an extra set of muscles to get through effectively? Well, you know, I think that they happen naturally sometimes. They're not, you know, sometimes we find ourselves in high stakes conversations and we didn't, we don't really have the time to think through, is this a high stakes conversation? But, you know, the, um,
00:09:34
Speaker
part of the background that I have in doing this work and some of the research around it is, you know, when stakes are high or whenever, you know, there are competing opinions that people have, but you you need to find a common goal in order to kind of move away from that conversation.
Identifying High-Stakes Conversations
00:09:53
Speaker
You need to find some common values that you and the other person may have, but Anytime that the stakes are high in that dialogue, that that there is something at risk, whether that's your relationship with that person or the performance of that person or a decision that's going to be made, and you know that you've got two different opinions coming in into the conversation, and it's very likely that emotions could get wrapped up in how you present yourself, which is, you know, the the comment about emotions
00:10:25
Speaker
I would say that's probably another reason that I knew that I needed to, ah or that I had a desire to do some of this work. I am one of those people who shows it on my face before I say it.
00:10:38
Speaker
ah And I've always known that about myself. um I own it at this point in my life of mid-career or later career. But, you know, that was a common, especially in my early days, my first career, um you know, I got feedback about that. And so sometimes,
00:10:55
Speaker
while there's no emotion in my tone, there's emotion on my face, right? And a lot of us find ourselves in that type of dialogue. And it's something that, I mean, I'll be honest, I'm 42. I've worked on it for 20 plus years, but having your words that you choose to use in that conversation can sometimes help with what you're showing on your face.
00:11:15
Speaker
Oh yeah. Uh, body language is such, such a key piece of it. Uh, um I maybe don't show it on my face, but I'm the opposite. It shows up in my tone for sure. Oh, yeah. But yeah as I think about those conversations for me, anytime i am in a conversation like that, it's more of a, I know the stakes are high because of my gut. All of a sudden I'm like, like, okay, listen.
00:11:39
Speaker
And you're right. I love that you describe sometimes you don't know. it's Sometimes you do. Sometimes you're going into, like, you're having a hard conversation with a person that's reporting to you or your own boss or even a friend.
00:11:51
Speaker
um But I love that you describe that sometimes they just, you don't realize you're, you're, you don't realize one's coming until you're in it. And those can, I think, maybe even be the hardest because you haven't had time to think about what you want to say or or how you want to react.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yep. And that's where the practice and the just being reflective on what you've listened to today or what you've read or what you've seen on social um and just having it front of mind is going to help you to be a better communicator in those moments.
00:12:24
Speaker
Yeah. ah Was there a moment early in your career where you avoided a hard conversation and realized it changed the course of something, either for better or worse? Oh, absolutely. I'm sure there's multiple moments.
00:12:37
Speaker
you know, not just one specific, but when you asked me that question, a particular scenario like comes to mind right off the bat. And this was in my first career that I was in. um And we had a really strong team of people and we, ah there's all kind of research out there about how ah your coworkers are what makes your experience at a particular employer, right? Like people sometimes will be frustrated with their role or their task and responsibilities, but they love the team.
00:13:11
Speaker
And that's a hundred percent. um I mean, I loved what I did and in my first career, which was with agcareers.com. But I mean, we had a team of people that were, ah we really synced very well.
00:13:22
Speaker
And I miss those working with those people even now. But um because of that, ah we a lot of times would defend one another ah in employment, you know, in in scenarios. And I think there was a there was a time where a coworker was in a scenario and and I felt very, I wanted to defend them and come, in you know and that was ah a critical conversation with me where I know that I showed the emotion more so outwardly and I could have done better with my words.
00:13:53
Speaker
um and And I think about, you know that was a pivot a pivotal moment in my career. It's, being very vulnerable in this conversation, you know it led to some, you know really deep performance conversations with my manager at the time. And so I often when I'm talking about having these type of conversations, I think about that moment.
00:14:15
Speaker
I'm very glad that, you know, worked through it and got through the other side. But knowing what I know now, would I have handled that situation differently? Absolutely. Thank you for the vulnerability, Ashley.
00:14:26
Speaker
I want to dive a little bit deeper here just for a second, because you were willing to have the conversation and express yourself, but obviously there were some unintended consequences of it.
00:14:37
Speaker
Well, I'm curious your thoughts. like Is it worth it to express yourself and learn through the process? like Obviously you look back and would reflect on it differently, but I think a lot of people are, ah I'll speak for myself, that and early in my career, I was so afraid to make the mistake.
00:14:54
Speaker
And so I avoided some of these conversations. And curious your thoughts on that of, you know, what we're going to make mistakes in our career and how do you, how do you choose when, when to speak up, even if you might say something wrong?
Preparing for Crucial Conversations
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah. um I think I'm just naturally, and some of this might be being Southern. ah ah Sometimes I think about what my grandmother would say to me when I was little, because I was known to talk a lot. So have the opposite problem that, that you did or scenario of what you're describing.
00:15:22
Speaker
I was quicker to talk even earlier in my career. um Opinionated would probably be a word that I would share with that. But i do think that a lot of times people are more timid in those scenarios. And I think it's where the, you know, I think reflection, gosh, when I, you know, at this point in my career, i am so much more reflective than was in my twenties or thirties.
00:15:50
Speaker
And, taking that time for the pause and to reflect and to plan a conversation. um you of course, don't want the moment to get away from you.
00:16:01
Speaker
I think that's important. And that's something that, um you know, these critical conversations that we're talking about today are things that typically I think some of your questions are going to lean more towards opportunity to plan for that conversation. And there's a great resource um in if you've read the book Crucial Conversations, there's a worksheet in there for planning out when you're preparing to go into a conversation.
00:16:30
Speaker
And I think doing that when you can makes you stronger for the ad hoc moments that happen. um And that that creates reflection, right? And taking that time to think. Certainly, i think to ah to your question, the importance of taking the time to pause.
00:16:54
Speaker
um I used to do a lot of interview training, and we're not talking about interviews today. I know you guys have some great dialogues about those, but that was really what I cut my teeth on in the the agricultural world was doing a lot of trainings with college students on interviewing skills and whatnot. And I very often would tell students, it's okay to take a breath and to think you will not regret it
00:17:25
Speaker
I mean, let's not take a five minute break here, but you know, just having that moment and I will probably do it today in our conversation it. it Sometimes there's power in silence.
00:17:38
Speaker
Oh, completely, completely. i think there's power in silence, both for yourself, but also for the other person in the conversation. i found sometimes that like being scared of silence, like I totally, and I can empathize with that. And also, I, in my former career, I did a lot of interviewing for like videos and stuff like that. And I realized sometimes I just needed to shut up and that would create the best answer on the other side.
00:18:09
Speaker
Um, And I think that goes to some of these crucial conversations, even planning it out, right? There's planning what you're going to say. But Ashley, do you also prepare for what the other person might might say or even might need to tell you?
00:18:25
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. um i think that, again, that goes to taking the time to prepare and reflect and think through gosh, you know, we're not that other person. So we're never going to be 100% aware of what they're going to say, but thinking in front of them.
00:18:47
Speaker
and and this is where taking that time to prepare. You know, I think a lot of people maybe listening to this today are thinking maybe about performance reviews. That's where I think, and giving feedback. That's where I think some of these conversations are happen the most.
00:19:04
Speaker
And we've seen a shift in the career world. Whereas when I was coming through, performance reviews were very time oriented and on a schedule.
00:19:14
Speaker
The generation that I even find myself working with now, they want feedback in the moment. And that's fair. Like, i' I mean, you know, i i am trying more with those people who work on my team to be good at giving it in the moment. But when you do that,
00:19:30
Speaker
You have to be prepared for the dialogue that you're going to. And I think about the old world, and and a lot of employers probably still do very structured, three, six, 12-month performance reviews.
00:19:43
Speaker
But if you're going to be giving that ad hoc feedback or um looking to correct an action in the workplace, before entering into that dialogue, thinking through,
00:19:58
Speaker
what that other person, you know, knowing their personality, what may be going through their mind. And also encouraging them to take time to think before they respond. You know, that's part of kind of structuring that crucial conversation that you're in is giving that person some permission or making them comfortable. I mean, that's one of the very first things ah when when you read Crucial Conversations, a topic in there is about making it safe.
00:20:28
Speaker
Making the environment safe to even have the conversation and encouraging safety throughout. And that is telling the person, hey, it's okay if you need to take a moment while we're in this.
00:20:41
Speaker
And then, you know, your mind may even go to some, so you know, additional scenarios of what they may respond to you with. Yeah, I love that you bring up that psychological safety because that is something that starts way before you ever have a crucial conversation with someone.
00:20:55
Speaker
Is like, are you someone that's going to be super reactive or expressive in a negative way? Or how have they seen you react in these scenarios before? Like that that is something as we talk about preparing, especially if you're in a leadership role, like that starts way before you ever have a hard conversation.
00:21:14
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. What is the intent of the conversation? is just as important as what is the content of the conversation. And, you know, because when you are thinking with intent in mind, you hopefully are going to be sharper on the words that you use and making sure that you're not accusatory ah in that and that you're opening that dialogue up.
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, and when you express positive intent, it allows you to talk about what the actual problem maybe is that you're trying to address. It takes the stakes down a little bit on the interpersonal, relational side of things. it Speaking with intent to me almost provides like some guardrails ah for that relationship.
00:22:04
Speaker
Absolutely. you know, one of the things that I try to remind myself of, because I think this whole everything we're talking about today is an ongoing learning, like lifelong learning, lifelong practice, right?
00:22:17
Speaker
But um sometimes I will even say to the person, because if I, especially if I feel that we're maybe getting away from that intent and the dialogue is not safe, um to use those terms, like, what are you hearing me say?
00:22:33
Speaker
So that you hear it from their perspective and then you have an opportunity to redirect if, that is what's happening. And that's, you know, I think asking questions is a huge part of having a crucial conversation and keeping that dialogue open.
00:22:49
Speaker
But there are times where you can read from body language or from tone and say to that person, because maybe you're not, maybe they're in a totally different field than you are, you know, in their mind.
00:23:01
Speaker
So just saying to them, you know, what, what are you hearing me say and see how they, verbalize it back to you oh that is so I'm gonna take that one put it in my pocket Ashley because I feel like a lot of times I am very guilty of asking like does that make sense and that almost is condescending when you're having uh versus what are you hearing me say and I you can flip that around too because in conversations what I have done before too is here's what I just heard
00:23:33
Speaker
And then it plays it back to them as well. And it helps just get so much more clear on the conversation as well. Absolutely. So tell me if someone is listening to this, they're about to go into a high stakes conversation. Maybe it's a conversation with their boss or they're a team leader that's about to have a hard performance review.
00:23:55
Speaker
What tips do you have for preparing for that conversation?
Tips for Managing High-Stakes Conversations
00:23:58
Speaker
um You know, I think that I'm not going to say scripting it out, like, but there is so much power in, let's call it journaling or outlining, making some notes on paper prior to going into the conversation so that if those emotions get high, if the stakes, you know, if safety gets out of bounds, you've got a visual to go to
00:24:30
Speaker
or for some notes about that. And also, you know, i think if, especially if you're talking about a behavior or even um something that has created emotion for you as the person, and that's why you're entering into this dialogue, having that written out is so helpful for you. These are your personal notes, you know, having something And I mean, I'm still a pen and paper. I mean, I use a remarkable.
00:24:57
Speaker
So I've at least, you know, but like, I'm not typing this out. I think there's power in the the handwriting. And know there's studies out there about that too. But um I think that is um it very important. I think selecting, you want to talk about preparation, you know, picking the right time, right? like Like, obviously not at 10 minutes till five on a Friday, right? You know, like,
00:25:21
Speaker
panic that just even went through yeah no I think some people um and maybe put it off because it is high stakes conversation right and so and you're like oh if I do it in the last 10 minutes you know on a Friday but and that seems like a duh but I one thing I have also learned is never think that there's a duh like there's always someone who needs a reminder of maybe common sense to you right so um Picking the opportunity, like maybe it's in the car. I spend a lot of time with my team um that I have now.
00:25:57
Speaker
We travel across the state to a variety of meetings and events. And so you have some intimate time in the car together. You know, is that the right time to have those conversations? Now, of course, if you're driving, you know, you're not able to review notes and things, but you can, you know, learning the personality of the person and picking um Sometimes you need to prepare to go off site, right? Like to go to a coffee shop. Go to lunch or something. Yeah. Go do something like be, be somewhere where you again are making that environment safe um for preparation. And then going into the conversation with what is the desired outcome? What is the action or what is the behavioral change or,
00:26:43
Speaker
how are you going to track accountability of change or whatever that may be? Like what, you know, no don't just enter into a conversation without having some type of, okay, what does conclusion look like?
00:26:57
Speaker
Knowing the outcome you want out of it, right? Okay. Right. And maybe it doesn't happen in that dialogue. Maybe it happens three weeks later when you check in again, or maybe it the next event or experience that you're wrapped up in or the next time that person is engaging with a client.
00:27:20
Speaker
You know, i mean, there's, but just have some type of concept of what that success or checkpoint is going to like. Yeah, so important. ah Ashley, when you have had crucial conversations, is it typically like there is one conversation that opens up an ongoing conversation or is it a one and done?
00:27:40
Speaker
Oh, no, it's ongoing. um I feel like especially if we're talking about in the workplace or in your personal relationships, it is always ongoing. This is something that I don't truly feel like anyone ever reaches like mastery level.
00:28:02
Speaker
There are certainly people who are better at dialogue, better at having crucial conversations. or critical dialogues. I think about lawyers a lot, right? Like, they're, they're really good at it. um Politicians are pretty good at it, too.
00:28:19
Speaker
But and I think it is always ongoing. And the scenarios are always so different, right? Like, I mean, it's, you know, I highly doubt two people have the exact same It's like a snowflake, right? Like everything is it's different for everybody. Yes.
00:28:37
Speaker
I love that description of it. It makes it feel more beautiful than sometimes you feel. yeah What tips do you have, Ashley, if maybe I'm caught off guard by... ah high stakes conversation. Either I receive feedback I wasn't expecting or someone sits me down and I think we are genuinely going out to lunch and all of a sudden there is, it's completely taken a turn.
00:29:01
Speaker
What advice do you have for how to react or how to prepare yourself to show up in moments like that? Yeah, that's a great question. um I think there's a couple different pieces of advice and depending upon the scenario, they could all play out.
00:29:17
Speaker
um If you want to to continue that dialogue right then, i think asking questions is so powerful. I think my favorite term that I have just ingrained in myself is, can you help me understand?
00:29:37
Speaker
Can you help me understand, you know, whatever you've presented with, been presented with, like, can you help me understand why you feel that way? Can you Give me examples. Like, questions are so powerful.
00:29:52
Speaker
um That's one way that you can, i think, just asking questions back. Now, not the entire dialogue. You know, at some point, you're going to get into ah the point of the conversation where you need to share your own facts or tell your story.
00:30:10
Speaker
But in that time, like, asking the questions are going to help you do that if you're in a, like, a, caught off guard scenario. also think um saying to the person, can we have this conversation this afternoon?
00:30:27
Speaker
Can we have that? You know, if you feel that goes back to the safety part of it, right? um Asking, is there a better time to have that conversation? You don't want to put it off. You're not going to ask for months or weeks, right? You want to, but just to give yourself a moment to kind of be more prepared.
00:30:46
Speaker
And then again, i'll just say again, like taking the moment to think through, like to think before you speak. Because when you rush to something, that's when that emotion is really going to bubble up.
00:31:00
Speaker
ah Just naturally, that's, I think they call it in crucial conversations, the reptilian brain. yeah Oh yeah. The lizard brain that like ah immediately reacts. Yeah. And you can like, they will have yes. And they have a visual of it and it is like, I can see it. and can close my eyes and I can see the visual that, uh, the crucial conversations people use for reptilian brain. So, you know, you want to avoid that.
00:31:26
Speaker
And so if you need to ask for that moment so that you know, that doesn't happen. And a lot of this is just knowing yourself, right. And knowing how you're going to react again, I'm talking about,
00:31:37
Speaker
being reflective of your own self, but that's so important. Yeah, I think that's such a good point. And honestly, Ashley, it is something we hear the leaders on this podcast say again and again, that like the key to being a better leader and better at all of these hard, so um what what um what we're going to say are soft skills, but they're very hard to do is knowing yourself and how you're going to react and show up.
00:32:00
Speaker
Yep. I always called those, um because this was kind of like my road show for a long time when I was traveling the country and going to college campuses. I would call them employability skills. The term was soft skills that was always used, but I'd say there's nothing soft about what we're talking about.
00:32:18
Speaker
These are skills that I used to use a scenario of like being a MacGyver, you know, um but then college kids didn't know who MacGyver was. So maybe some of the listeners today.
00:32:30
Speaker
know who MacGyver is, was, is a character, but, you know, that's what made him so successful at getting out of all his conundrums was the soft skills or employability skills that he had.
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think when we compare it to to what I'm going to say is hard skills, too, it helps contextualize the fact that you're not going to be good at this immediately and that's okay and you have to keep up the repetition because like goodness the first time if you think about any hobby you have like the first time I started doing graphic design I can look back and be like that really sucked or the first time i like to hunt so the first time I picked up a bow like was I hitting bullseye heck no you know like when you have whether it's crucial conversations or
00:33:22
Speaker
how to be a good leader or a good manager. It takes, it takes being willing to be bad at it and do it anyway and learn from that to get really good at it. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:33:33
Speaker
Public speaking. I mean, that's a huge example of that, right? Like you don't just walk out there and command the whole stage, right? You have to practice.
00:33:43
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. Do you have any tips as we think about the intensity of these conversations and they can get hot and spicy for how you turn down the temperature?
00:33:55
Speaker
Depending on the scenario you're coming at. If you're the person who has kicked off the conversation and is leading that, um, again, preparing ahead of time and knowing if you have the opportunity in the space to say to that person, let's take a minute.
00:34:13
Speaker
And again, that's okay. Um, On the flip side of the dialogue, um and I'm not saying like there's a, you know, I'm not describing this as the leader and the follower because it should not be like that. It should be a dialogue of two people.
00:34:29
Speaker
So, but in the other case, you know, your emotions, if you're feeling that you're getting that way, um again, knowing yourself and knowing that you need to take that moment repeating yourself.
00:34:43
Speaker
repeating right? So like going back and saying, um, describing your emotion in words, not letting it come out in tone and body language, but, uh, saying to that other person, when you say that it makes me feel this, this is what I'm experiencing.
00:35:03
Speaker
Is that your intention and asking that question? You know, I've already mentioned just the power in asking questions. Um, It's what keeps that dialogue going for sure. Yeah, yeah absolutely.
00:35:16
Speaker
so part of the reason asked that question is one of the things that has worked for me is validating what the other person has said.
Validating Perspectives and Agreeing to Disagree
00:35:24
Speaker
like That's at like whether it's factually correct or yes, i I see, like I can see that perspective.
00:35:33
Speaker
I've even said you're right. It doesn't change why we should. that And that was more of in a business conversation of like, you are absolutely right on the reason that we shouldn't do this, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep pushing forward. Like that is a risk we need to mitigate, not a reason not to do this.
00:35:49
Speaker
And you do that because you know what the outcome is, right? Like that's why you're able to have that moment of ah admittance or reassurance is because you know what goal it is you're working towards in that dialogue and you want to get there.
00:36:06
Speaker
a So one of the questions that that sparks for me is how do you strike the balance between giving in in some of that of, i mean, you should, how do you define your boundaries of this is what I'm willing to either yes, i I am a part of this problem or i do need to change versus I know there are some people out there and I can say that I've been in this situation before where it's like, you know what, it would just be easier and get the outcome that I want if I just gave in.
00:36:38
Speaker
But that doesn't make the outcome for me good. Right, right. um You know, this is something that I would say just honestly in the last like five years that I've become stronger in my career. And i think that's okay.
00:36:53
Speaker
Like, you know, there's some things you just don't learn until you get older. ah So you've had more experience, but being able to admit that. And, you know, i think about how many conversations, gosh, especially in younger in my career, how rare it was that we just said, we're,
00:37:16
Speaker
we're going have to, we're going to disagree on that. You know, like like, can we agree to disagree on that particular point of the dialogue? And, you know, when I think back to my early mid-career time, I don't think i ever did that, you know, and I'm, now I'm at a point where I have had those dialogues more so, um and just got to that point. And so maybe that's something that your listeners today will, um,
00:37:45
Speaker
think about, you know, and in hearing that and say, you know, gosh, when was the last time that we just agreed to disagree? Um, and that's part of, you know, just general maturity in your career. And, um, but to also your question, i think one of the strategies is throughout the conversation, getting the buy-in from the other person about where you're trying to get to, you know, and, um And you do that through asking questions. Does that sound good? Are we still on the same path and and checking for that throughout?
00:38:22
Speaker
um But sometimes just being open and, you know, that's another thing that I would certainly describe of myself at this point in my career. i am much more understanding of people.
00:38:33
Speaker
I understand your perspective. Whereas and feel like in early career, eager to, um eager And we're trying to climb the ladder that we just want people to agree with our opinion.
00:38:49
Speaker
And like us and be, you know, ah to get on your team and, you know, to to be working towards work because you're very convicted and you're, you know, you feel like, oh, I've gone to college. I've gotten this internship. I've got my first promotion. Like, I know what I'm doing, right?
00:39:07
Speaker
But being understanding that what makes... us successful is diversity of thought. And what makes when you study successful businesses or successful teams, it is the diversity, not just in the makeup of the people, but the diversity of how they think.
00:39:28
Speaker
And so being understanding in that dialogue is a huge step in um becoming better at communicating. Yeah. And I think if I, I love that description of yourself, of yourself early in your career, because I would, I could absolutely relate to where, you know, like you, you think you know it and, and to be on high performing teams and in high performing businesses and being able to have diversity of thought requires hard conversations because people think so differently.
00:40:03
Speaker
And you have to have humility that even though you're really smart and really talented, you're not the only really smart and really talented person in the room.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yes. And not letting, you know, gosh it's so much easier to give positive feedback. Right. And so, so, you know, we get a lot of that. Like I remember early in my career, people being, you know, just getting so many compliments when I would do something and, or, you know, being, and I'm so grateful for that, like, because you need that confidence boost, but not letting it
00:40:44
Speaker
get in your mind whenever you're going into a crucial conversation with someone that you're right, that, you know, sometimes, i mean, depending upon, especially again, I'm thinking about performance reviews and trying to, you know, uh,
00:40:58
Speaker
coax behavior or outcomes in a, you know, a job situation, you know, you may be right, you know, because you're, you're maybe be the boss or the manager and you need to correct some action.
00:41:09
Speaker
But depending on the dialogue, it may be just an opportunity to get some of that diversity of thought and having the willingness to say, like you mentioned earlier, you're right, you know, or we're going to agree to disagree. Can we, can we agree to disagree about that and just moving forward? But Knowing yourself is so important.
00:41:31
Speaker
Yes, yes. And to, as you're talking about this, I'm reflecting of like some of my own experiences, both as a manager and as someone who's been led and the leaders who come in with humility, i think have, one, they're really good at that psychological safety and have, they just change the tone of the conversation.
00:41:50
Speaker
But I also have been on the other side of those where I've given feedback and then the person's response or the context that they provide to it totally changes my perspective as well.
00:42:01
Speaker
And I think it's, you talked about asking questions, curiosity is such a key piece of it. and If you go in with a closed mindset, you're I think the likelihood that you're going to get the outcome that you want is much more narrow and limited.
00:42:15
Speaker
Absolutely. So let's talk about this as it relates to agriculture, because agriculture is built on legacy, tradition, relationships, family, ah which I think can make tough talks maybe even tougher.
Evolution of Agriculture and Family Transitions
00:42:30
Speaker
One, maybe why do you think that is? and And is that something that, how do we overcome that? Yeah. Um, You know, I have had multiple times in the last just year or two where I've said in my mind to myself, you know, it's the stories we tell ourselves, right? That's another key and crucial conversations. But um I think I'm so encouraged by the future.
00:42:59
Speaker
You talk about family and legacy, right? And I think people listening know that absolutely we have some people um the older generations in agriculture who, gosh, bring so much value. yeah Yeah. And wisdom.
00:43:14
Speaker
Wisdom. Huge wisdom. But the concept of a crucial conversation was never in their repertoire, you know? Like, so, and and I feel like I have had been so blessed to work with the upcoming generation who is listening to podcasts like this and who's going to trainings and doing that. So I think that is certainly going to make agriculture a better place. um I am, while I don't think we've solved everything to be solved here, I'm so encouraged by the number of workshops and sessions that I see offered for the transition of the family farm.
00:43:56
Speaker
And because I know while I've not engaged in one of those myself, I know that what one of ways that you make the transition of the family farm happen is through practicing these crucial conversations.
00:44:10
Speaker
And maybe that is involving a third party mitigator, you know, or like an ombudsman or someone in that dialogue. But, you know, the generation before us didn't have those with their granddaddies. And, you know, so um i think that is very encouraging about agriculture Uh, I think it's going to always be something that needs to be practiced and worked on and be front of mind, but I just cannot help but to think we're going to be in a better place.
00:44:38
Speaker
Also the conversations around mental health in the agricultural industry that I'm so encouraged that they're happening because I've certainly seen that play out in operations, um, in my 20 year career. And so just the fact that it's even a topic now, um,
00:44:58
Speaker
is encouraging. Again, it's not going to fix the problem. i mean, it's, it is a problem that needs to be addressed, but at least we're working on it. So I think those are some ways that it applies to agriculture. I guess to, to your question of just saying like, I think we've got people in this industry who are more passionate about figuring this out so that the stereotype of agriculture changes about having conversations.
00:45:26
Speaker
Yes. Well, and I think one of the things you just highlighted, Ashley, is the the key in all of this is vulnerability and us being willing to be vulnerable and talk about hard things that are scary or or just tough or carry emotion or, you know, all of it. and And that is something that what we're talking about is the people in agriculture the this is a shift in the culture of agriculture. And that doesn't doesn't happen easily and it doesn't happen fast.
00:45:57
Speaker
It doesn't. And so blessed to be a part of it yeah this point. Yeah. Yeah. What happens if farms, associations, companies, ah what if leaders avoid some of this truth-telling?
Avoiding Crucial Conversations in Business
00:46:10
Speaker
I'm going to go more into that truth-telling, hard conversation piece of things, maybe more from a business standpoint.
00:46:16
Speaker
um You know, I serve, I'm going to, add a category to that, boards. um I have, ah just in the last decade or so certainly comes with an natural career progression.
00:46:32
Speaker
Not only do I lead a board, ah serve on a lot of boards. And especially when I came into the peanut industry, i began to experience those boards that were very almost scripted, right? Like there was a meeting before the meeting and there might be a meeting after the meeting, but in the- And there's a text thread, but like what's such yeah conversation in the room is not- It's not a dialogue, right? And again, I'm encouraged because I think that we're shifting that in our industry, but it's still out there for sure because I serve on some of those.
00:47:08
Speaker
So I think that is from a business standpoint, not healthy. And if you step back and study- That is where you see conflict in organizations and associations because the place where that dialogue should have happened at that board meeting, when you've got all that diversity of experience and thought at the table, isn't happening.
00:47:32
Speaker
It may take a long time for that to show in the financial performance of that organization or in the, um just the overall success of the business. ah people, like I think about turnover of employees. I mean, it's not always about the dollar, right? It's about retention and the culture of the the place that you work at and your ability, that company's ability to be creative and um to also shift when needed in the business, in the marketplace.
00:48:01
Speaker
And so um I think that practicing some of the things that we're talking about today as a person who may serve on those and being You know, one of my favorite sayings is be the change that you want to see in the world, right?
00:48:16
Speaker
Having that confidence because you've spent the time thinking through the dialogue, thinking through the words that you're going to choose, thinking through how other people and and speaking up in those opportunities in business um is what is going to make that business stronger.
00:48:34
Speaker
So, you know, that's kind of my answer to your question there about flipping it to like the the business mindset is I feel like, you
00:48:43
Speaker
I've really seen it play out in that board structure, right? So why do we have boards if, and that could be everything from your college alumni board to, you know, something more business centered, like what I'm doing every day working with farmers, if it if there's not dialogue, right?
00:49:02
Speaker
So um being, i hope those who are listening today who find themselves in that type of scenario in their career If nothing else, get some confidence today of, you know what, I've been in a meeting like that and I need to drive that dialogue when I can.
00:49:21
Speaker
Yes, such good advice, Ashley. And it's something I've seen play out in my career, too, of where either I'm on the board or I'm serving the board, but the conversation in the room just isn't.
00:49:35
Speaker
it's almost flat. And so love that you brought that up and a place where we can all practice. I'm even going to say some courage sometimes because I've been the person sitting at the table and like, do I say it?
00:49:49
Speaker
Yeah. it it There's a, you know, there's a fine line there between, between being the person who, when they speak, um, it's,
00:50:01
Speaker
influential versus they speak so much that you become deaf to what they're saying. And so hopefully, you know, i know this, this audience, these are, this is the cream of the crop, right? This is the people who are engaged in this. So I think they're probably pretty good about ah having a good barometer for that, but it's, you know, something to always keep in the back of your mind.
Rapid-Fire Round on Peanuts and Leadership
00:50:25
Speaker
Okay, Ashley, ah we are going to go into rapid fire because I know we are a little over your time, so we can wrap this up. And it's going to be peanut-focused and leadership-focused. But short answers only is what I will say.
00:50:38
Speaker
The most underrated way to eat peanuts. Oh, bold. I can agree with that. If your leadership style were a peanut product, what would it be and why?
00:50:50
Speaker
A chocolate-covered peanut. Love it. um Because, well, you said just short answer, so I won't go into explanation to this topic. That's a good one. ah What is one question every leader should ask themselves before a tough conversation?
00:51:06
Speaker
What is the outcome that I'm seeking? Like, why am I having this? The biggest communication red flag is? Body language. What is something you used to believe about conflict that you've now outgrown?
00:51:20
Speaker
That my opinion is the opinion and the right one. You know, just being much more open-minded.
00:51:29
Speaker
Creamy or crunchy? Oh, creamy. Me too. Fun fact, though, North Carolina peanuts do not typically go into peanut butter. another Man, I'm all full of fun facts after this podcast. I love it.
00:51:43
Speaker
ah Finish the sentence. If agriculture had more crucial conversations, we'd have fewer... Misconceptions. Misconceptions. Good answer, Ashley. Okay, and our final little segment is ah called Hot Takes because at AFA we love hot takes. So what is an unconventional or bold opinion you have about leadership, peanuts, or the future of agriculture?
00:52:07
Speaker
I love that you sent me this ahead of time because I've got two, but I'm going to just pick one. So i came across and in I came up in the industry where we We're talking about this massive retirement of we were going to lose all these people out of our industry and how we had to get more people who didn't know anything about agriculture excited about careers. I spent probably three years in my early career doing this whole career awareness of like, look at all these awesome jobs, come work in our industry.
00:52:40
Speaker
That is still important. um But I, my like hot take is, We weren't ready. We have not done. and I don't mean that by, I think there's been a ton of work around inclusivity, DEI, et cetera, in the industry, but there ain't no Ag 101.
00:53:03
Speaker
We are not, we are bringing all these people into the fold and good for us because we need them, but we need to help them. and I mean,
00:53:14
Speaker
I've really seen this since I came into the peanut industry because, again, we could do a whole podcast on the all the layers and how the peanut industry works because the majority of people don't know it. And i don't I'm not saying that we need to teach people beef marketing, swine marketing, and like the flow chart, right, um ah of every single commodity.
00:53:36
Speaker
But we need to do more, those of us who are in this industry, to understand we're doing. yes, we're bringing in people, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they understand the flow chart of things. And we need to help educate them so that they can be more powerful.
00:53:56
Speaker
When they bring the diversity that they're bringing, they've got some foundational knowledge. So i you know I hope, while i'm I'm doing a little bit of that in the peanut industry, but it's obviously specific to my industry, i hope to see the day when across the board, there's more of that Ag 101 for the people that we're bringing into our industry because we're going to have to have them.
00:54:22
Speaker
And I'm so glad they've come. I hope they continue to come. Love that hot take. It's great. Yeah, it's a little different, but um I also really enjoyed the most recent of your podcast that I listened to. The ah the lady who said, you know, there's a lot of people, um we talk a lot about consumers,
00:54:40
Speaker
not understanding where their food comes from. yeah but farmers not understanding where their food goes. Love that take from Michelle as well. I know. I was like, girl, yes. Yes. And so it's it's been on my mind ever since I listened to that. And I was like, that's kind of like my Ag 101 thing. You know, i mean, it's different, but yeah, we just need to do more to help these people because gosh, or they it will only, knowledge is power.
00:55:05
Speaker
It will only make them more powerful in our businesses. Yes. And make our industry stronger. Absolutely.
Connect with Ashley Collins
00:55:12
Speaker
Ashley, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for the conversation today.
00:55:17
Speaker
You know, at AFA, we're all about building bridges. So where can people learn more about you, connect with you, and the work that you are doing with the Peanut Growers Association? Sure. So I'm on LinkedIn, Ashley Collins.
00:55:28
Speaker
More importantly, across Facebook, Instagram, ah you can find NC Peanuts. And ah we, I think, do a phenomenal job of putting out information about North Carolina peanuts and just the peanut industry in general.
00:55:42
Speaker
And our website is aboutpeanuts.com. And ah that's a brand new website we just launched. And it's got a lot of great information on there. And you can find my email. and happy to have a conversation with anyone who would like to talk a little more.
00:55:58
Speaker
Love that. Well, I'm about to go follow NC Peanuts because I'm sure there's more fun facts that I will get to learn. yeah Thank you so much for sharing your time and your wisdom with us, Ashley. This has been a wonderful conversation that I know i learned from, and I'm sure our listeners did too. So we really appreciate you being on the Cultivating Leaders podcast.
00:56:16
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Cultivating Leaders podcast brought to you by Agriculture Future of America. you've been here before, you know we value feedback as a gift. Please leave us a review and let us know how we're doing.