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Understanding Body Language with Jan Hargrave
63 Plays23 days ago
Great leadership is more than what you say. It shows up in nonverbal conversations. In high-pressure moments, your posture, presence and body language can build trust or erode it.
Jan Hargrave, globally recognized body language and nonverbal communication expert, joins The Cultivating Leaders Podcast to unpack how leaders communicate confidence, credibility and authenticity without saying a word. Drawing from decades of experience in boardrooms, courtrooms, classrooms and virtual meetings, Jan shares how small, intentional shifts in body language can change how others perceive you and how you perceive yourself.
Jan gets real about:
- First impressions: why trust is formed in seconds and how leaders unknowingly signal confidence or doubt
- Confidence vs. nervous habits: how subtle gestures can undermine your message and what to do instead
- Leading in every room: practical body language strategies for meetings, presentations and virtual conversations
This episode will challenge you to become more aware of the signals you’re sending and remind you that leadership presence isn’t about being louder—it’s about being intentional.
Want to hear more from Jan? Check out her blog here!
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About The Cultivating Leaders Podcast
Real stories. Practical advice. Tangible growth. Join The Cultivating Leaders Podcast, brought to you by Agriculture Future of America, as we explore what it takes to lead in food, agriculture, and beyond. Whether you’re just starting out or leading at the highest level, this podcast is your go-to resource for leadership that matters. Listen now and start cultivating your leadership journey.
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Transcript
Introduction to TED Talks & Hand Gestures
00:00:02
Speaker
So ah a good study that was done a couple of years ago, other research and I were trying to figure out how many body language gestures appeared in an 18 minute TED Talk. So all TED Talks are 18 minutes. And as we broke down the film, you know slide by slide, we found that there appeared between 200 and 600 hand gestures in a TED Talk. And the TED Talks though, that were the most popular and was often rewatched, had between 400 and 600 hand gestures in them.
Podcast & Guest Introduction
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome to the Cultivating Leaders podcast, where we get inside the minds of leaders to harvest great ideas and lessons that help you grow as a difference maker in food and agriculture. I'm your host and curiosity captain, Nicole Ersing.
00:00:47
Speaker
Leadership isn't just about what you say, it's about how your body says it. Today's guest has made a career helping professionals master the unspoken side of communication. Jan Hargrave is a globally recognized body language and nonverbal communication expert whose books and keynote presentations have guided leaders, legal professionals, and major organizations to harness presence, interpret hidden signals, and lead with authenticity.
Key Elements of Communication
00:01:12
Speaker
Jan proves that the strongest message often comes from posture, gesture, and presence. Jan, welcome to the pod.
00:01:19
Speaker
You did a great job. And you're right. it's It's posture, it's presence, it's how we look at other people. I'm thrilled to be with you. And, you know, ah the leaders of AFA have always been dear to me. It's one of the only youth organizations I speak for. And sometimes they are better prepared than some of the grown-up organizations I speak for.
Effective Body Language in Virtual Meetings
00:01:38
Speaker
I am very pleased to be with you and maybe share some information that can help you know our leaders now, our future leaders, and how can they use nonverbal effectively if they're in a meeting, if they're in a presentation. Even when they're on a virtual meeting, there's some secrets that we can teach with body language that can help them even there.
00:01:56
Speaker
I love that. Well, I can't wait
Jan's Journey into Body Language
00:01:58
Speaker
to get into it. So Jan, how did you get started on this journey of learning about body language and becoming an expert in Yes, because it is ah kind of a strange title to say when people say to you, what you know ask me, like, am I being in an Uber? someone will say, what what do you do? And I'll say, well, I'm just a consultant. they say And then I say, I'm a speaker. And they say, what do you speak? so And I tell them that I'm a body language expert. So for me, ah i mean I am originally from Louisiana. I live in Houston, Texas now. But I went to school at University of Louisiana Lafayette and LSU in Baton Rouge. majored in business, minored in psychology, but when I was in some graduate psychology courses, one particular, I had a professor who was into body language. So every few days he would walk in and he would look at one of us and say, I know what you're thinking, or I know what you're thinking. So one day he said it to me and I said, well, how can someone know what someone else is thinking? And so then he further explained about body language. And I guess when I heard him explain that,
00:02:53
Speaker
I just thought that this is really interesting that that I could look at someone and look at the way they move their arms or their hands or their feet and kind of figure them out. And so from that moment on, and once they introduced it to us, I started doing research in that topic just for fun, just for interest. And in my first paper ever did on the subject, I turned it into him and got a good grade. I mean, don't give Jan Hargrave a good grade and not expect her to deliver more. So from that moment on, all of my graduate research was in the field of body language. And at that time, I was working on my master's. So I had ah an education degree. So I was teaching high school in the day and I was going to night school and summer school to get my master's degree. So a lot of my research then was body language between teacher and student, body language between teacher and parent, body language between principal and and and teachers. So it kind
Nonverbal Communication in Legal Settings
00:03:45
Speaker
of started that way. So then
00:03:46
Speaker
After I got my master's degree, my college asked me gave me a teaching position. So I was teaching business courses in the day, business law, economics, because my major was business. But then they wanted to offer, start a night school at my university, University university of Louisiana Lafayette. And they wanted interesting topics. They wanted to really attract people to come there. So they go and they talk with each professor and say, what kind of research are you doing that relates to something that you're studying or that you want to be further interested in? And I was doing body language. So they said, well, why don't you write a curriculum for a course in nonverbal and we'll offer it to attorneys? So, you know, ah we don't know how to say no. So I said, yes. And I wrote this curriculum.
00:04:29
Speaker
And so the curriculum contained things about, you know, with attorneys, you know, how to spot a liar, how to spot a truth teller, because attorneys want to pick 12 jurors who think like they think so that they can win the case. And while the attorney is so busy asking the possible jurors questions, they can't see what we what I see.
00:04:47
Speaker
So usually if I'm like i working in the courtroom and looking at maybe 100 jurors, I have a sheet that has boxes and they're numbered 1 through 8, 9 through 16. So if he is asking a question of number 32, I can write things about what number 32 is doing with their body language when the attorney is asking them questions. So then from there, to make a long story short, from there, some of these attorneys later on would start saying, well, why don't you come do this for our our our firm firm or why don't you come speak on this for our
The Rise of Interest in Body Language
00:05:17
Speaker
bar association? So it started off, I was just going to do a little talk on body language. Couldn't believe that people were interested, you know, in listening to it. But the further it went on, the more that people were interested. And every few years, I'd say, I need to leave that body language stuff alone. I am a college business professor. But then someone else would call and then it went on on. But I always loved learning about it to this day. If I can pick up an article in a magazine or I hear...
Nonverbal Communication & Trust
00:05:43
Speaker
uh in an nfl game and they'll say look at the team players body language when they're going back to the huddle then because years and years ago 22 years ago i think is when i started it it was not too well received people didn't even understand what it was then you started having big cases started with oj simpson's case and there was a juror consultant there so then the word body language expert kind of you know came into being and then from there i didn't have to explain so much when i started telling people about you know, if you put your arms a certain way, means a certain thing. So, you know, the old adage actions speak louder than words is so important because in the research it says that 55% of our communication is nonverbal, 55%. So we walk into a room, we don't even say anything, but people start getting impressions of how trustful we are.
00:06:32
Speaker
Do they want to have a conversation with us? So 55% is nonverbal. 38% of our communication is voice inflection. So, you know, when we're talking, just when our voice goes up or down, that also, this enthusiasm, because if you're on the phone with someone and you don't hear them, you can kind of see if they're happy to speak with you, and you can just put that in their voice inflection, and then it does say that in ah in a one-to-one conversation, only about 7% of our conversation is from the words that we say. So 55% is nonverbal, 38% is voice inflection, and 7% comes from the actual words that we say.
00:07:09
Speaker
I mean, it it is ah an abundant amount, and people go through their entire life and never get a study or a training or nonverbal. And, you know, you can be effective, effective as you want, but unless you have some kind of people skills, I think you'll always have a little bit of a shortcoming.
00:07:26
Speaker
Yeah, it'll always be a challenge that you're trying to overcome. Yes. Okay, so you said so many things in there that have my brain running with a million questions, but maybe let's start with how do you, you said you can tell if you are someone who is signaling trust. If I am in a professional space, how do I signal that I am someone who's a trustworthy or an open human?
00:07:51
Speaker
Sure. You know, when we have a conversation with the person, think about it. There are actually two conversations going on. There's a verbal conversation and there's a nonverbal conversation. if People don't realize there's a nonverbal conversation. And the verbal is like you and I talking and verbal is everything we ever studied or we're talking our opinion of things. but the nonverbal represents three things. It's our attitudes, it's our feelings, and our emotions. So the way that I greet the way that I shake your hand, the way that I give you eye contact, that is is telling you about how I feel about you, what my emotions are of you, what my attitude is of you. So if you're first meeting someone, I would have to say you have to give them good eye contact. You must, you must, you must. It's a
00:08:36
Speaker
you know It says that we're giving someone, when we're talking with them and they're really meaningful to us, that we should give them 60 to 70 percent of our eye contact while we're talking with them. Never that we would stare because you know we'll look away. It's called gathering, so it's okay for your eyes to move when you're talking. we We looked at this side, get a thought. We looked at this side, get a thought. Then we look right at the other person. But we can't have a whole conversation and never look at that individual. so we We have to look at people, and our moms always said, you look at me when I'm talking with you. So those of us who are schooled, who are groomed, and who go through programs such as AFA or or or learned or go to college and have some kind of communication classes,
00:09:16
Speaker
know that young professionals have to look at other people when they're having conversations with them. So I would say that eye contact is important. The kind of handshake we give someone else is important. So people just think you know it's the handshake, but there's a lot of parts to the handshake.
00:09:31
Speaker
First of all, you must wear your shoulders to that person. So when I'm shaking hands with you, my shoulders have to be exactly level with yours because in body language, it says that we always point our bodies where our minds should go. So if I'm having a conversation with you and I'm pointing this way and just kind of talking with you on the side. It makes it feel like it's cutting me out.
00:09:54
Speaker
shake your hands and they're they're like this, but their body is turned this way. So it's kind of like they're they're dismissing you. So then that's one thing I always tell people, make sure that you square your
Impact of Handshakes & First Impressions
00:10:04
Speaker
shoulders. Second thing is that when you're shaking someone's hand, the best kind of handshake is the vertical handshake.
00:10:09
Speaker
straight up and down because if I go to you and my hand is facing downward, that's a controlling effect. If my hand is facing downward when I shake your hand, it's as though I'm thinking whatever we're going to discuss, I want to have the final say-so.
00:10:23
Speaker
If my hand is facing upward, this is submissiveness. So this is saying whatever you decide, i'm okay with that. So the actual best mind you see is vertical, exactly, exactly vertical. And the best way to shake someone's hand is that web touches web. And this is a web between my thumb and my pointer finger. And I'm sure that you all have training. it but And then I laugh when I train and I say that du they yeah the appropriate number of pumps in a handshake is three. People go ten times, one time, but it is three. And then another lesson that sometimes I will tell young people, if they feel that
00:10:56
Speaker
let's say someone who they're working with is dismissive to them, then I tell them when, when let's say you and I would be shaking hands and we're this way, I tell them that you can take your left hand and you can hold that person right here. So let's say I'm shaking your hand and I'm holding on here. This is called anchoring if I do this while I'm shaking your hand. And it only gives an impression that says, it says I'm fully present in this conversation. But what happens, it stops you.
00:11:23
Speaker
You give the person good eye contact and you validate that person as an individual. Because so many times people shake your hand and they kind of dismiss you and walk away. So if you're holding on to someone here, they will never let go of you until you're ready to let go of them. So You know, let's say in the business world, we have people who are 30, we have people who are 25, and sometimes they don't feel that ah they get the respect that maybe someone else would get. And that's just a minor thing that they could do that would say to them, look, ah I am a person, I'm worthy, i' I've gone to college, I've studied this. And sometimes you have to, I guess, extend your own ground. And that would be one simple, simple way to do it. And, you know, when I talked about the handshakes, you know, one going down and one going up, if you notice that someone comes to you and their hand is facing downward, you may not feel strong enough to turn the hand that it's level, but I want you to start noticing, oh, this person came to me and their hand is facing downward. So that means they probably want to control all of the work I do with them, all the conversations I have with them. So when I teach nonverbal, I say, not only do you have to think about how to read someone else, you have to figure out how to read yourself.
00:12:34
Speaker
That's exactly what I'm thinking through in my mind as you're talking about this. I'm like, oh, what am I doing? yeah But, ah you know, you have to think when you enter that room, people are sizing you right then. In the first two to seven seconds of someone seeing you, they have decided if they trust you or not.
00:12:49
Speaker
Wow. That's pretty quick. You know, you know, we we always get training and actions speak louder. I mean, know first, if you never get a and second chance to make a good first impression. So that's what it is. Like, even for me, because I think one of the things we had maybe talked about, about how do you interview them and really...
00:13:05
Speaker
you know, know that you're you're like on stage, even for me, let's say I'm speaking at an event and there's a banquet and I have to sit at ah an eating table before I have to speak. Even then when I'm eating, I'm still on stage. You get it?
00:13:20
Speaker
So then I'm still like, you know, I have to be careful what I'm doing. So we always have to be aware of that. Then you can go to your room and kind of relax your shoulders and and and and get your own self. But I think when we are in the presence of someone that's, is it's a professional setting, we have to continue to keep that in our mind.
00:13:38
Speaker
Okay. So is body language, this is a question I have, is is body language something you can control or is it, i feel like so much of it is happening without us realizing it. And like I'm signaling things or whatever I'm feeling emotionally is being expressed, even though I don't notice it.
00:13:56
Speaker
used that I think to myself, because sometimes people say, Jan, I don't think I'd want to be married to you. And what my poor husband, you know, if he moves a hand, I'm like, oh my gosh, know what he's going to tell me. So let's think about what what body language really is. A lot of it is is intuitive, that we're kind of born with this. Because even someone blind will do this for no.
00:14:17
Speaker
So everyone is born with some kind of intuitiveness in the field of nonverbal. And, you know, you meet someone and if they don't sit right with you, you know, something you just can't figure out what it is. something to off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:31
Speaker
I want you to start using that intuition and know that you are correct in your feelings about that person. But, you know, it's partly intuitive, but there's a lot of things you can learn about it, like what's a gesture of confidence, what's a gesture of of nervousness. So when you said the word um about how you get a feeling about someone, let me tell you the three C's of body language so that people who are listening to this and and want to learn more, they'll
Interpreting Body Language
00:14:55
Speaker
understand. so The first C of body language is the word um context. So what I'm saying by context is that whenever you see a gesture, you have to think of what's the environment the gesture comes in.
00:15:07
Speaker
So let's say I see a woman on a cold winter night sitting on a park bench and her arms are tightly crossed this way. She's probably letting me know that she's cold. But if I see a business executive in a meeting room that's really warm and his arms are cold,
00:15:21
Speaker
close Close this tightly. He's maybe telling me that he does not want to listen to what I'm saying. So that's why for every gesture, you must think, what is the context that I see that gesture appear in to get your true definition? Because learning body language is like learning another language. You know, we speak English, we speak French, we speak Spanish.
00:15:39
Speaker
Why not learn to speak this thing called body language? So then the second C of body language is the word congruence. For someone to come across as honest and genuine and believable, their gestures must match the words that come out of their mouth.
00:15:54
Speaker
So if I would say to you, I like you so much, but my head goes into a no, that's what we call incongruence. So when someone starts doing that, that's when you start getting this feeling,
00:16:05
Speaker
I don't like this person. I don't trust them. So so you you you meet a person in your life or you probably know someone already in your life and you're thinking like, I don't know why I just don't trust that person. And it is because their gestures are not matching the words that come out of their mouth.
00:16:20
Speaker
Because most of us, you know, normal people, our gestures come out and usually the your gesture comes out about one fifth of a second before the word comes out. If you're telling the truth. But if someone is lying, the gesture comes out a little bit after the word would come out.
00:16:33
Speaker
so So we have context, we have congruence, and we have clusters. So when I talk about clusters and I'm teaching a class on this, I say, look, I'm going to teach you maybe four or five gestures that people do with their hands when they lie. And I'll teach you four or five gestures that people do with their hands when they're telling the truth. But I don't want you to just see one gesture of deception that someone gives you and say, oh, this person just lied to me. I want you to note it in your brain, but I want you to look for two or three more gestures of deception. From that individual to make sure that your findings are correct. You you understand. So we can't just look, see one gesture and say, oh, you just lied to me. ah
00:17:09
Speaker
Let them continue talking. let them continue talking. Maybe you see a second gesture of deception. Note it also. And then you see a third. You're pretty sure that this person is not telling you the truth.
00:17:20
Speaker
So that's kind of good to know. So context, congruence, and clusters. And you know the word congruence is um like I see politicians speak. So let me just show you this. Putting my hands together here, when I put my fingertips together at chest level, this is a gesture of confidence. It's called steepling.
00:17:37
Speaker
So whenever you see it done, it can be done at the chest. It can be done. If you're doing it, you know, you can do it with just the fingertips together. You can do the thumbs together. Even this would be – even this, you see this, this is called goal post steepling. I know you see people do it a lot on television. So anytime you see that gesture, it has to do with something something related to a level of confidence that they are feeling. I'm just going to pause, Jan. For anyone who is – I know this is mainly an audio format, but she has her hands up. So, like, if you have your – your fingers together, pointing. Like a praying, but you're not touching the bottom of your hands together. It's just thing and they're soft and you can never do like a spider, you know, a crab. That's not good. They have to be really soft and stable and steady there.
00:18:23
Speaker
That's the gesture of the confidence. Yeah, and her hands up and when she's saying goalposting. Like it's still in front of her chest, but not like, don't think like a, you know, touchdown. It's more just like ah controlled in front of your chest. And they're kind of and at ah at an angle. They're not straight, but they're kind of an angle facing each other. Yeah. back to the word with congruence and this gesture, I may see someone on stage on television speaking and, you know, and people say, Jan, do you ever not do it? And I try to make them feel comfortable and say, I probably don't do it all the time, but I'm probably watching people all the time. You know, I'm in an airport and I'm kind of watching people. So it's like, I'll be watching TV and trying to figure out their body language. So most people know that this, you know, this gesture means confidence, but I can tell when they're nervous and maybe not being genuine and they will say what they need to say and then then they'll stop talking and then I'll see their hands go up and the steeple gesture is like, oh, I forgot to do the steeple gesture. So when the gesture does not come where it should come, that's what we call incongruence.
00:19:23
Speaker
And you catch it because it just won't sit well with you. you know I don't know exactly how to tell you, but it won't sit well with you that they did the gesture to delay. Yes. It's almost like our our subconscious is reading it. We just always don't know how to interpret it. You said the words exactly right because like when I'm looking at ah jurors or when jurors are looking at a witness testify because i I work in the courtroom day after day after day it's not anything that that witness will do specifically that turns off that juror it's a combination of things and the juror won't even understand why they don't like this person and like you said it's just a subconscious feeling that we get but that subconscious feeling weighs a lot in our decision making in life
00:20:07
Speaker
So, Jan, if I am someone who struggles with nervousness or wants to come across as a better communicator, but I think that, well, like we talked about, some of this is like we're doing it no matter what, whether we're paying attention to it or not. Is the key to good body language changing some of your emotion or is it knowing what body language to use to better communicate?
00:20:29
Speaker
I think it would be knowing what body language would be used to better communicate. Because let's say i would be backstage and being introduced to go on stage and I'm really nervous and I'm you know just moving my hands and and just being nervous with all these distraction gestures.
00:20:44
Speaker
What I should do right then, i should stop what I'm doing that makes me look more nervous and I should do a confidence gesture. And you know what happens when you display a confidence gesture, you become more confident.
00:20:57
Speaker
So there are gestures that people do. I mean, we work with prisoners who can we can even change their handwriting to change their behavior. So then if we could change someone's body language, it's like when school kids would wear it when they had picture taking date, they'd wear good clothes. They always behaved better.
00:21:12
Speaker
So it's like when we are in a room and we know that maybe we're kind of on display, then then we we take a deep breath and it shows through our body language, whether it's the pushing back of the shoulders, whether it's the way we use our hands. So what I hear you saying is if you move your body, you'll change your mind.
00:21:31
Speaker
Right. change The physiology of person can almost change their mind.
Gestures Indicating Emotion
00:21:36
Speaker
Wow. Okay. So if I'm someone that struggles with nervousness or if I'm in a a tense meeting or something like that, I can do a motion of confidence or something. So let me share share with this with you.
00:21:48
Speaker
There are gestures that are good to do, that that make you come across as really confident. Then there are gestures that we call, they're called displacement gestures, discomfort gestures, or pacifying gestures. So think what the word pacifying would be.
00:22:03
Speaker
If you have a a baby who is crying and you you give him a pacifier, it makes him feel better. So we, when we're nervous, we do pacifying gestures to make us feel better.
00:22:14
Speaker
So a pacifying gesture, but but pacifying gestures don't make you look confident. They only make you look weaker. So these would be gestures that are done that don't need to be done to get our message across. So that would be where we're like almost, yeah, ringing your hands. Yeah.
00:22:30
Speaker
Pulling pieces of imaginary lint while we're talking to someone is a displacement gesture. Scratching the neck, and usually people do it five times, a displacement gesture. ah Touching the front of the neck is almost feel as though you feel you're being strangled. Touching the back of the neck when you're speaking is a sign of frustration. Playing with hair too much.
00:22:49
Speaker
Oh, i do I definitely do that when you have. A bottle water. and they they they unscrew the bottle and then they take a sip and they screw it back, and then they talk and they do it again. That's a displacement because those are distractions from what you're actually saying. They don't count.
00:23:05
Speaker
You know, they don't count. so So if I'm watching someone speak and they do 10 pacifying gestures and one confidence gesture, I know that they're pretty nervous. So as much as you can, when when you see yourself doing one of those things that you shouldn't do, maybe wringing the hands,
00:23:22
Speaker
pooling with your clothing too much, just did you just have to stop for a second. Place your hands if you want on your lap. Calm your own self down. Because when you're nervous, your hands are trying to reach to your brain because that's where you're nervous and they're trying to calm you down. So people end up scratching the face, holding the ear.
00:23:39
Speaker
But as much as you can, just bring your hands together. And even if, and I'm taking my thumb and I'm touching my middle finger here, so Anytime you get the feeling that you're holding your own hand, you feel a little bit more confident because when you were in first grade and your teacher perhaps scolded you, you went at recess, you held someone's hand made you feel better. So now we're big people. We cannot just go hold someone else's hand. So we hold our own hand, whether you're holding it this way and an audience doesn't even know what I'm doing when I'm doing this, or I'm casually holding it this way, but I'm holding my hand saying, it's okay, girl, you make it.
00:24:13
Speaker
So when you feel that you're getting to where you're doing too many of them, I know it's kind of like you have to work on your own mind is that you have to stop doing it and do something calming, maybe put one hand, and you know, and and with another. So and I know people, people, so so some gestures that would be confidence gestures would be, even if, if I clasp my hands together with all my fingers together, but tight, let's say my hands are real tight. My fingers are woven.
00:24:37
Speaker
That's discomfort. That's displacement. soft in my thumbs are in a steeple That's okay to do. When people are speaking, you see what I'm doing with my hands? I'm holding onto an imaginary basketball here. This is a great gesture when someone's telling you something that they want you to approve of. So it's as if I'm thinking to myself, I have this information the ball of my hands, I'm holding onto imaginary basketball now. And then I kind of lean towards you and kind of put my hands this way. It's almost as though I'm saying i have this information, a ball of my hands.
00:25:07
Speaker
I will gladly pass it on to you. Hopefully you digest it and then you give me back that ball. So it's like, I want to get you on my team. It almost feels like you're giving me a gift.
00:25:17
Speaker
So think my hands are cupped, a little bit cupped when I'm doing that, and my fingers are kind of wide apart. when my hands When my fingers are straight, about 14 inches apart, and my fingers are straight and kind of wide, this is this is a firmness gesture. This is kind of a forcefulness gesture. This gesture is typically done when you're trying to get someone's attention.
00:25:36
Speaker
So when you're you know when you're trying to say, I think it's time that we go on and we move on, your hands would be this way. If you're trying to work with them, perhaps your hands are more cupped. And a quick way to get a read on you or get a read on someone else, a shorthand method to body language is that.
00:25:52
Speaker
Think of hands and fingers when you're watching someone else speak like windows and on a home. So when the weather is nice and sunny, probably your windows are open and a breeze is coming through. When someone is comfortable and confident that there's big spacing between their fingers when they're talking.
00:26:08
Speaker
When the weather is gloomy, probably your windows are closed real tight. So when someone's nervous and upset, their hands are closed and fingers are closed real tight. It's that simple. so So when you're watching someone speak, just, you know, giving even a book report, even if someone's in school and, and you know, we're nervous doing that. I was even nervous in high school doing that. so So think
Enhancing Communication with Gestures
00:26:28
Speaker
about it. And sometimes if you will just put spacing between your fingers while speaking, you can become confident.
00:26:34
Speaker
It is amazing. It's amazing, Jan. Yeah, as we're doing this and I'm like mimicking you, I can feel like my emotions changing. Kind of feel good to do it instead of going like this, you know, when you're talking and being real tight. So ah a good study that was done a couple of years ago, other research and I were trying to figure out how many body language gestures appeared in an 18-minute TED Talk. So all TED Talks or 18 minutes. And as we broke down the film, you know, slide by slide, we found that there appeared between 200 and 600 hand gestures in a TED Talk. And the TED Talks, though, that were the most popular and most often rewatched had between 400 and 600 hand gestures in them. So you know a good TED Talk. I mean, don't you see something that like, they're good because the person is using their body language effectively.
00:27:25
Speaker
so So they're not doing any displacement gestures. They're only doing gestures that help to get their message across or get that audience to really take in what they're saying. But isn't that a good example so that people understand you cannot be effective when you're talking with people if you use no hand gestures at all.
00:27:43
Speaker
You have to because it it makes you come alive. So in relation to that, even when someone's on a virtual call. I was just about to ask this, Jan. how do we yeah How do we do this in a virtual that setting? yeah faster when they can see some kind of non-threatening hand motion from you when they first greet you. So if I go to you and my hand is kind of facing upwards, that's non-threatening.
00:28:03
Speaker
If I go to you and my hands are facing downward, that is threatening in a sense, you see? Because police officers say, show me your hands, because they want to feel, oh, this person is safe and i can you know I can work with them. So even in business, when we're greeting someone, we have to show them some kind of non-threatening hand motion, whether it's a lifting of the hands, because when your hands are upwards, it says,
00:28:24
Speaker
I accept you. I like you. Because when you go to hug someone, look, they see the insides of your palms. So whenever someone sees the insides of your palms, they do not feel threatened. What if I'm like more like this?
00:28:36
Speaker
Okay, so if I do a stop, then not. But if I have my hands more open and my arms... Your hands hands facing upwards are accepting, downward facing palms are controlling. It's not that one's better than the other, both need to be used every time you talk. So when you're speaking about something that you feel strongly about and it's serious, it's okay to talk and your hands are kind of facing downward.
00:28:58
Speaker
If you're trying to bring someone into the way that you feel and think, then your hands are kind of facing upwards, kind of at a 45 degree angle and and they can see your palms. So with that in mind, think of the virtual call.
00:29:10
Speaker
It works the same way. For someone to trust you, they will have to see your hands a little bit when you're speaking. Never crazy hands, but I'll show you how you can use them effectively. Anytime you have to number a sentence, show me that you're numbering the sentence. and Say, well, number one, let's talk about this. And then number two, let's talk about this. And then put your hands out of that screen. If you need to show me a size, say it was really big. And then put your hands out of the screen.
00:29:35
Speaker
So every now and then, so that I can see you as an individual, you'll have to show me some kind of hand motion and then put them away. And and even if the screen shows you from the chest up, because if I'm just looking at your face, I don't feel you.
00:29:50
Speaker
When I'm looking at you from chest up and I can see a hand motion from you, I know that I'm having a conversation with a person, not just a talking head. So, yeah. So, and um they, you know, one of the things that I tell people is is never touch your face. But, you know, in ah in a virtual call, I think that the only time i allow, because, you know, i still teach at the University of Houston. And when I'm teaching a class, I say never touch your face if you are speaking, but if you are listening, it would be okay. for Let me show you this gesture here. I'm taking my right hand and I'm simply rubbing back and forth underneath my chin. This is an evaluation gesture.
00:30:27
Speaker
So many evaluate and they'll rub the chin back and forth. When a lady evaluates, she usually points her pointer finger up. and and puts it against her chin and kind of tightly tilts the head. This is called critically evaluating.
00:30:40
Speaker
Holding the whole hand, holding the whole head in the hand, this is boredom. You never want to see someone do that. But let's say you you and I are on a virtual call and you're talking and it would be okay if I did this. If I rub my chin, it'd be that I'm evaluating what you're saying or if I did this. So anytime really you touch your chin, you are evaluating.
00:30:58
Speaker
Whether you're pulling on your chin this way, just slightly pulling on the chin some way, or rubbing underneath the chin with the upper part of your hand. Anytime you touch your chin when someone else is speaking, you are evaluating.
00:31:10
Speaker
So while someone else is talking, you have to give them gestures to encourage them to let them know that you're listening. And the two big ones are head nods and a head tilt.
00:31:21
Speaker
So let me explain that. So a head nod, we must. A head nod is just that i I am almost bowing down to your knowledge. And also it's an encouragement gesture. If someone's talking and and you're just sitting there with no expression or no head nod, it's like no one's getting a response. to So if your head is nodding, it's like, okay, I agree with you. I disagree with you. And there's a difference in two head nods and three head nods.
00:31:47
Speaker
So when we agree, we go twice. We're like, oh, uh-huh, uh-huh. When we're ready for someone else to shut up, we go three times. Uh-huh. So if I'm going, and you know, we're like, okay, it's time for me to talk now. It's kind of like that when go three times. So that's is that when head nodding can get excessive of like someone who's just like bottleheading and they're like, okay, i get done? but normally but but a head nod is so encouraging to the person speaking.
00:32:11
Speaker
On a virtual, let's say I'm teaching a class on a virtual screen. You know, I don't get to hear, and nobody else is talking but me. So if I can see some class members shaking their head, I'm like, oh, okay, I must be doing okay today.
00:32:23
Speaker
so So we must do that. It's an encouragement gesture, an acknowledgement gesture. And the other thing too, you see, when i when I'm talking with you, your head is slightly tilted to one side. Yeah. head tilts show interest. I didn't even notice that I was doing that, but you're right when you said that I'm like, yep, my head is tilted. When when someone's not interested in something, their head is straight up and down. It's like, when is this thing going to be over? But if you're interested, the head kind of tilts and the background behind that, because when I teach a gesture, just don't like to say it. I want to give you the background.
00:32:52
Speaker
You see the the area of your neck that you expose when you tilt your head, that's really vulnerable. If someone hits you here, they could really cause you a lot of damage. So you would never tilt your head if you were not comfortable with whoever was speaking with you. Because if you're not comfortable with them, you're going to be straight up with this way. But if you're comfortable, you're like, I can kind of relax. So the the the old saying was that, you know it was always thought that women were better listeners than men, but women are not better listeners than men. It's only that women give more nonverbals when they're listening.
00:33:22
Speaker
So when women nod, women nod, women smile. Men more so stay in a neutral position when they're listening. So if someone has a meeting with a man, someone may say at the end of the day, well, how did the meeting go? She'll say, I don't know. never gave me any non-verbals.
00:33:37
Speaker
If I'm training guys, I say, guys, look, you can nod every now and then. And then I tell women, we can't nod all day long because then they'll think that we agree with everything that they're saying. Yeah, amen. I think for for listeners to know that that you know that that when they're having conversation, be human. Let me see you.
00:33:54
Speaker
Let me see your hands because that's how your sweet personality comes out is by seeing a head nod from you, by seeing some of your hand gestures. Because when you're with your friends and you're comfortable, you probably use a lot of hand gestures. Sure, yeah.
00:34:07
Speaker
Even when you're in a business setting, don't don't let it hinder you. Use some of your hand gestures that are comforting to you so that you're you're looking as comfortable as you are as if you're having a conversation with with friends. So Jan, is there professional and unprofessional body language?
00:34:23
Speaker
So unprofessional body language would have to be slouching. The moment you said that, it made me think of slouching. Okay. because So unprofessional would have to be slouching. you know and and And when we have our arms crossed in front of our bodies, you know if you're trying trying this at home and you cross your arms in front of your bodies, I want you to notice that your shoulders kind of start slooping. So when your shoulders start slouching, you look slouching.
00:34:46
Speaker
unprepared to others. you look When you make yourself smaller, you don't look as powerful as when you make yourself larger. So let me kind of explain that. We say that the physical space you need when you're sitting or standing dictates to others how much power you have.
00:35:03
Speaker
And if we needed something to to to correspond to that, Think of if you saw three limousines driving down the highway, three limousines are going by each other or together. And one's much bigger than the other two. Where do you naturally think the most important person is? It's in the largest of the three. So when we get into meeting rooms, the way that we sit, the way that we position all of our books dictates to others how powerful we feel when we're sitting there. So we call it non-confrontational when we stay small, when we stay small, we cross our arms and we cross our legs. So look how we stay, if I'm i'm crossing all of that right now, we stay in this little bitty bubble.
00:35:39
Speaker
And so when we're that small, we look very weak to others and they say, oh, I can get my way with this one and pounce upon them. So when I'm guiding young ladies, I tell them when you get into the meeting room, you cannot stay that little.
00:35:53
Speaker
You spread your arms out a bit, you make your gestures a little bit bigger, just to kind of give the aura that you're taking up a little bit more space than you normally do. And that's hard for young ladies to do because sometimes they're very timid, but you know, look what I'm doing now. So just as an example, I wanted to do it to show you, I just have one of my arms kind of on the back of my chair. I probably wouldn't stay this way too long because it looks a little bit too aggressive, but I bring my arm back and then maybe bring it when I'm emphasizing another point just to give, because I think of Oprah when Oprah would interview people, she never interviewed people with her arms crossed in front of her body. She interviewed it more than likely.
00:36:29
Speaker
with her hand on the back of her chair and she was like talking, see how much bigger I look here? Because women are a little bit, you know, tinier and they're leading meetings where you have tall men in there. And so sometimes to make yourself, because in body language, you make yourself appear larger by using a little bit of of a bigger gesture. And maybe when your hands come out, because on stage, I see myself when I'm speaking and i my gestures are kind of big.
00:36:55
Speaker
then I'll get off stage and someone says they want to take a picture with me and they'll say, wow, I didn't realize you were this short or tiny. But on stage, I don't appear tiny because my gesture, even when a lady does this, you know, but I'm putting my hands on my hips. and This is an assertive gesture. you don't want to do it for too long because enough people will say you're too aggressive. But, you know, when your hands are, you can put one on on ah a a hip and just talk a little bit. But it just gives you that aura that I'm bigger than I am, you know, and then bring your hands down. So...
Professional Appearance & Approachability
00:37:23
Speaker
So what if you are someone who has been given feedback that you're intimidating or hard to approach or something like that in the workplace? What type of body language tips would you give someone like that?
00:37:35
Speaker
I think when pop people tell others that, it may be more so their facial expression makes them, it may not be the body language. Because when you said that, that's the first thing that came to my mind. Maybe it's something in their facial expressions that ah that that let that that make you just say, you know, this person is looks irritated.
00:37:57
Speaker
So maybe they'll have to soften their facial expression. I don't know how to do tell them that. But we have to think that And people learn in various ways. People who are kinesthetic learners or those who have to move around when they're listening to us. So they look not interested in what we're saying.
00:38:14
Speaker
So like I was speaking in Washington, D.C. yesterday, and i had an attorney in that room. And when I first met her, because I went around, it was at a yeah U-shaped table, and I i just noticed something was a little off, that she couldn't look at me straight in the eye, but I didn't think that much of it.
00:38:30
Speaker
And then when I was presenting to, I noticed she was looking at her paper, shoes but then after me, and you know what? She came to talk to me to tell me that. She is ah like a divergent learner that she has to look at other things.
00:38:44
Speaker
She cannot just sit still when she's listening. So, so then, you know, it kind of took me off guard, but I'm glad she came and addressed that with me. Because at first I was thinking maybe she's not interested in what I'm saying, but it was only because her learning style is different from maybe you or I, so there's There's visual learners, there's auditory learners, and there's kinesthetic learners. So kinesthetic learners are those who have to move around or won't give us the correct, we think, facial expression that we should get.
00:39:11
Speaker
So then then if someone thinks they come across as too angry, I think it might be in their facial expressions they're giving to people. But if they notice that they're they're, or maybe they're always with their arms crossed when they're listening to someone. Because if someone's always this way and they're listening to me, I would think, well why don't they uncross their arms? yeah But two, but for people who are learning this,
00:39:33
Speaker
If you get negative gestures from an individual, let's say you and I would be discussing something for a long time and your arms would be crossed. It would be my job to get you to uncross. But I could get you to uncross by simply trying to hand something to you.
00:39:47
Speaker
Maybe give you a cup of coffee or say, let's look at this item that I sent to you last week. So when you have to reach for me and get the item, you have to uncross your arms. So if we can get them to move from a negative position to a positive one, we have started to make some kind of headway into what they're, you know, to to loosen them up. Or I think of this. So right now what I'm doing, I have my hands behind my head and men will sit this way in a, you know, in a business meeting. This is a really strong gesture of confidence, but it is way too strong to use in a meeting room of less than...
00:40:19
Speaker
five people. It is reminiscent of someone sitting on his easy chair at home saying, I'm the king of the castle. So if I was being interviewed and someone sat this way, I would have to say to myself, I've got to get them away from that seating arrangement. So again, I would say, let's pick up that document. Why don't we pick up that document? Even if it's a virtual call and they're doing this, say, can you download the document I sent you this week? Anything to get them to bring their arms down because You know, if their arms are down and they look more receptive, because the hands behind the head is equivalent to someone having his feet up on his desk while he's talking with you.
00:40:55
Speaker
So wouldn't we hate to be interviewed by someone who had his feet up on his desk, his hands behind his head? Yeah, would feel like ah you are lower than me. Nobody does that now. One time, to give you this story, I was being interviewed by a company who wanted to hire me. I think it was Bank of America.
00:41:11
Speaker
And it was two men. It was just a phone call. It wasn't a virtual call. And one of the guys on the phone call, I knew because he had heard me before. So he had told his bigger boss that he needed to hire me.
00:41:23
Speaker
So it was a conference call of the friend and I can't remember his name and the big boss and me. So then I could tell on the call that the big boss was not too sold on having me come in there. And speak about body language. You know, he kept saying, what do you think? How do you think it's going to benefit my people? I felt like i he was attacking me in a sense, you know, but I just thought, Jan, just hold on to your own and and just push through this. And I just thought to myself, well, you know, it's worked with all other organizations, so I don't see why it would not, you know, work with yours. So, you know, I was kind about it. So then ah um just before we hung up, I had this wild idea in my mind. I don't know how I can even tell you how y'all are sitting without me seeing y'all right now.
00:42:03
Speaker
So he said, girl, if you can do that, you got the job. So then I started by saying, I talked about my friend first. I said, I know that my friend is leaning forward. He probably has his friend, you know, like this. He said, Jane, you got that right. And then the big boss, I said, you're probably sitting at your desk and your hands are behind your head. He said, you know what? You got the job.
00:42:21
Speaker
Because I knew that he was sitting in a position that he felt dominant. Yes. So, yeah, and I got that job. And he became my friend for life. Okay, so now I think we've got to talk about
Vocal Tone & Gesture Influence
00:42:31
Speaker
tone.
00:42:31
Speaker
Because so much of this we talk, okay, there's hand gestures and the way we hold our bodies. But I can't remember what you said at the beginning. So much. In vocal tone. Yeah. 55% is nonverbal. 38% is vocal tone.
00:42:43
Speaker
Okay. So when we're speaking, the vocal tone that that is probably the most um powerful to others is a little bit lower than, or than then then ah like it should come out on your on your out breath. If I would say to you,
00:42:59
Speaker
Hi, I'm Jan. Instead of saying, Hi, I'm Jan. So it should be on the lower range that you have. So women have about five vocal tones. Men have three.
00:43:10
Speaker
so and And when we're in the courtroom, we're trying to see if someone's being deceptive with us. The higher their vocal tone is, the more likely they are being deceptive. So when people are ah ah are are nervous and maybe lying to us, the vocal tone's real high. When people are afraid, the vocal tone is real low.
00:43:27
Speaker
So you're trying to look for a tone that's kind of in between. so and And that's hard to change is a vocal tone. Sometimes you have to take a speech class and you have to make them teach you how to breathe.
00:43:38
Speaker
Because other than that, I cannot help someone change their own tone. But the thing that you have to think about to help yourself get the right vocal tone is... is to calm yourself down.
00:43:50
Speaker
so the kind and And that's hard. It's so hard. i know, because even you know to this day, even when I get introduced to to speak, you know that I still kind of get nervous behind the scenes. But I guess that's still good because then if you don't get a little bit nervous, you're not as good as you once were.
00:44:05
Speaker
yeah So I always pray this is going to be good. you know So so that's I think it's okay that at first maybe we start and then once we get comfortable and we breathe. And everybody understands that, that anyone is nervous, you know, getting in front of an audience to speak or coming into an interview. And your interviewers, if they're seasoned, they'll know that a young person coming in for an interview is is bound to be a little bit nervous. But the thing you have to do, and you're doing it so well right now, you know, is – Hold your one hand and you know calm yourself down by holding one hand. Even doing a steeple gesture while you're sitting there like you know doing a steeple. I haven't even seen my hands, but I know that they're there in that steeple gesture and I know that that's a sign of confidence. So that would stabilize me when I'm talking instead of just going crazy you know with your hand motion. Because crazier your hand motions are.
00:44:53
Speaker
the the probably the higher your vocal tone will be. Plus, let me also share this with you. Across our body, there are different zones of communication. So though let's say when my hands are you're you're my between my shoulders and chest, that's called the passion zone. So if I'm talking, means I'm really excited about what I'm saying.
00:45:13
Speaker
At your waist, this is called the truth, T-R-U-T-H zone, because that think of your navel. Your navel is the center part of your body, so it's that like the navel center. So when someone's telling the truth, more than likely their hands are going to be gesturing at the waist if they're standing up. and When you're sitting down, it's pretty hard to do that. yeah Underneath the waist level, it's called the grotesque zone, so you don't want too much gesture there. Above your head is ah like the thought zone or the – I can't remember what these zones are because most people talk about in this zone here, the the passion zone and the waste zone.
00:45:46
Speaker
And the way that you can see this, if you're watching the news at night, you can see that when someone's telling a story that's really serious, the gestures are going to be at the waist. When the weatherman is talking, his gestures are at his chest because he wants to keep you excited about the same thing he told you yesterday.
00:46:02
Speaker
You get it? And the human eye loves symmetry. So if I'm talking with you, your eyes like it if my gestures are in the same zone. when I'm talking, because if I would talk and I have one hand in the passion zone and one hand in the truth zone, I look kind of crazy.
00:46:17
Speaker
You see what's going on here? It's too wild. So you want to kind of keep your hands in the same zone as you're speaking. You know that when you're talking, you're doing in a book report or you're presenting or you're giving a business meeting that when you're doing it, you know, that your hands are in the same zone. Yeah. Yeah. Cause even thinking about like be diagonal, like yeah like this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing that I want to mention is that when you talk about vocal tones is that the higher your hands go, the higher your voice gets.
00:46:44
Speaker
So if you're trying to calm yourself down, put your hands in a lower zone. That's the secret right there, I guess, to getting the right zone. Yeah, to changing your tone is where you have your gestures. Because if get excited, look, my voice is going to get higher. My hands going to get higher.
00:46:59
Speaker
If I want to calm myself down, my hands need to get lower. then that way, it lowers my voice a bit. Will you be trying all these things when you get home? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, now I'm going to analyzing people. on su Honestly, Jan, I'm sitting here and thinking about my own coworkers and thinking like, oh, you know, like, why are they, they come a Because I will say, like, I work virtually from home, and I will say it is so interesting to meet my coworkers in person or spend time with them in person because oftentimes the way they come across on a screen yeah and then meeting them in person is very different. And I'll be honest, the ah passionate levels of conflict or, like, heated topics, it completely changes the way that we have those conversations versus – Virtual versus in-person. Yes.
00:47:46
Speaker
Just think before we had virtual and it was just a telephone. And we had to get like like someone would call me for a speech. And so I'd have to get a visual of, did I think this person was brunette? Did think they were tall? you know And then then I'd meet them at the airport and they looked totally different when they came to pick me up. Than you had in your mind? So just think at least with virtual, you can kind of get an idea of them.
00:48:06
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, we call it profiling in the courtroom when we're trying to figure. So we profile people to this day, probably, you know, if we never see them on a virtual call. We kind of profile them and think that they have dark hair, they have light hair, they're tall.
00:48:20
Speaker
So if I'm in a virtual setting and I'm someone that doesn't like to turn on my camera, does that make
Virtual Meetings & Engagement
00:48:24
Speaker
me a. Oh, you need to turn on the camera. Yeah. Yeah, because think about the poor speaker having to deliver a message.
00:48:33
Speaker
oh You know, we are looking at a little bitty dot. You know, if I'm teaching a class virtually, I'm just looking at a dot on my computer. And, and you know, and during COVID, I taught classes on effective nonverbal communication during virtual conversations.
00:48:47
Speaker
But it would make me so nervous to teach the doggone class because, and and I talked to other speakers, you know what it was that was making us so nervous? We had to put all of our energies into a little bitty camera.
00:48:58
Speaker
On stage, you know, I get to feed over this person's face or this person's face. So then then your mind is just trying to zero in right there because we know that when we look at the camera, people feel that we are looking in their eye. Okay, so if I want to make eye contact with someone, I need to look at that camera.
00:49:15
Speaker
You have to look at the camera. So when I'm speaking, I would look at the camera. When they're speaking, I more so will look at the screen. So yet to make the person think that you're looking right at them, you'd have to look at the camera. So when I would be teaching or training, I mean, my first training during COVID was 400 attorneys from Alabama having a conference.
00:49:34
Speaker
So here I was teaching 400 attorneys for about an hour and a half on nonverbal communication, where I am nervous at the bottom, but trying to act like I'm really confident, peeking at that little camera for a whole hour and not seeing any of their faces.
00:49:49
Speaker
Because all their cameras were turned off. i was It's a very stressful thing on the brain. So that's why I'm saying if you can put on your camera while someone else is speaking, do so. Because it kind of gives them something to feed back on, to look to see if you're nodding, to look and see if you're agreeing, if your head is tilted, you know, what you're doing. Or you're just sitting like this with your whole head in your hand. Yes, yes. I think sometimes, too, it can send a signal of disengagement.
00:50:13
Speaker
of like, okay, I'm here but not really here. Yes, yes, yes. It's like they don't value you and the information that you're wanting to teach them. That's kind of how I feel if someone turns a camera off I would agree with that completely.
00:50:27
Speaker
Well, Jan, this has been so fun. Let's go into our rapid fire segment. Okay. So we're gonna try to do short answers and I will try not to ask follow-up questions. That's the challenge. Okay, what is one book, video or resource you recommend on body language? So, you know, I, I, my website is janhargrave.com.
00:50:44
Speaker
So on my website, I have five books and the first book is let me see your body talk. So that's body language, job interview, body language, presentation skills, body language, gender differences.
00:50:55
Speaker
My second book is judge of the jury. That's what we use in the courtroom, how to spot liars or truth tellers. My third book is free way of love and that's dating gestures. Ooh, that might be interesting. My fourth book is strictly business body language. That's just negotiation. I think my fourth book is the best written one because by the time you write four books and you understand how to write a book. But what I did in book four, I put a lot of pictures of how people sit in business meetings that underneath there, I explain what the person is thinking. So that's why it's easy to read. And what I did in that book, every chapter is is like chapter one is just about hand motions. Chapter two is just about arm motions. Chapter three is just about leg motions. So that's, so you can read a chapter and kind of get it done. And then the last chapter is a poker. The last book is poker face into the body language of poker players.
00:51:44
Speaker
Not that I'm a gambler, but i I was asked to write a book to help gamblers to win. know and And there was a woman who was placed seventh in the women's world service of poker who was,
00:51:56
Speaker
asked me to research this with her. And so we, she proofread the book because I don't know everything about poker, but she helped me with all the terms. And then also my website, i have a great online course. It's called Mastering Business Body Language. It's 13 modules and it's excellent. It's me teaching it. It's, um,
00:52:13
Speaker
it's everything there is to know about mastering body language, and no matter what kind of setting you have. So I do recommend those, my books, but there's a lot of other, Julius Fast is an old author on body language. ah Navarro is also, he was an FBI agent who also speaks on body language. He's one of my mentors. So, so we, we, we as body language experts, we're only about 11 of us in the United States who do this, who've been doing it for years. We have new people. We hopefully are getting into the field, but,
00:52:41
Speaker
it starts, you know, there's not too many people who do it. Absolutely. So who is a public figure you think absolutely nails body language? You know what? Well, I thought about that and I said, I don't want to hit a politician because that's to going one way or another. So you know who I would have listed?
00:52:56
Speaker
Taylor Swift. And I want you think even when she's walking into a restaurant, her shoulders are back. She has a good gait. She carries her purse in a really ladylike manner and her head is straight up.
00:53:10
Speaker
So, you know, if if I don't want to get political, because I don't want to touch politics, but if we want to just get someone for fun who I think has good body language, even when she poses for a picture, she she really does. She's kind of stately is what it is. And she she's tall.
00:53:26
Speaker
Every now and then she may hunch her shoulder a little bit. And I think it's maybe because she's speaking to someone who's shorter than her, but shes she usually has really good body language. love that. Another reason I like Taylor Swift. ah If you could teach every young ag professional one physical communication skill, what would it be?
00:53:44
Speaker
It would have to be eye contact and facial expressions. I mean, it's got to be that because what else could it be? I think that would be the thing. And to be genuine, to be genuine because if you're not genuine, people will figure you out and they will not like you.
00:54:02
Speaker
So so you have everybody has by themselves has a lot of own personal qualities that are good. So address the ones that are good and and and work and use those when you're having conversations with other people.
00:54:14
Speaker
love that. We didn't talk about it. Tell me about the pink glasses that you give out when you speak. I got that. Yeah, my pink glasses. Look, you know, i give these away and they have – when I'm teaching a class, all my students wear these pink glasses.
00:54:26
Speaker
People love these pink glasses. Yes. So I wear pink glasses, but I have to wear pink glasses to see. So I was doing a Tony Robbins event a few years ago. I am ah a trainer for Tony. I'm his closing speaker at his leadership meeting every year. And so I thought, what could I give to these people? Because they always like
Jan's Personal Touch & Education
00:54:42
Speaker
a giveaway. And I thought, well, let me just get the pink glasses and give to them. But I didn't have pink glasses. Now these are made with my name on it. These are made in China. ah But i um I went to a a party center and I brought some bought some breast cancer awareness glasses because they look just like this. But they had the X's of breast cancer awareness. So my husband and I popped out the lenses of 1,000 frames.
00:55:05
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. It brought them with us. And so when we were there, I mean, people were dying for these glasses. We had 1,000 people with pink glasses. So then after that, I did it for another speech. And then my web designer said, Jan, that's too much work. Let this order them for you. Because see my name and websites on this side. And so now I carry them with me. I can be at an airport and I want better service. They'll say, like a glass. I'll say, you want a pair?
00:55:28
Speaker
And I give them a pair. And they're like, they put me in first class. They give me a good hotel room. They're so cute. yeah So aren't they? Even older men will get these glasses and wear them. Mm-hmm. so So then, and even my business card has my pink glasses on it, but it's a kind of a good little trademark for me. So then I told this to the lady who had sold me these glasses. These are from Belgium. So since I'm wearing these glasses, I had to buy every frame of this frame left in the united in the world.
00:55:56
Speaker
We got some from Belgium. So I have like four more of these frames at home. Because let's say if I wear these for two years, I'll kind of start fading. then do you don't have to take the lenses and put them in a new frame. So I'll probably wear these till I pass away. This frame style.
00:56:11
Speaker
It does. It's very cute. Well, and I like it because the it's fun Jan, because the way that you are seeing the world. is what you are teaching other people. So see the world like Jan. and it was quick It was just accidental that I thought what could what what would be relative that somebody could relate to me. And then people get them, they put them on their desk, and then every time they see them, they, oh there's Jan. It's a good reminder, too, to be thoughtful about body language and how how other people are seeing us. Yes.
00:56:40
Speaker
Okay, Jan, we have got to wrap it up because we've got to get you to your speaking slot. But one last question. um We always love to ask our guests for hot takes. So bold, unconventional opinions. So what is a bold or unconventional opinion that you have about leadership or going to say even body language communication? You're kind of s stumping me, girl. Okay, let me see. What's a bold opinion that I would have?
00:57:04
Speaker
a hot take would be... to to get others to see you seriously and and see your knowledge because I think that knowledge is what's going to get you ahead of other people. It's not going to be your personality. It's not going to be your likability.
00:57:19
Speaker
It's going to be how much you know and how you you relate that information to other people. Are you confident when you deliver it? i mean, you have to be personal. that's ah ah ah not But I say the more education you can get, the more learning you can get, the more reading you can get.
00:57:35
Speaker
the more you can follow the mentors who will have done this path before you and learn from that and take that for yourself, then I think that you you cannot stop someone if they continue learning all their lives. And someone even my age I love to learn, love to learn. And then another thing that I did not mention to everyone maybe listening is that I am a farm girl. I did not know that, Jan. Yes, I'm from Louisiana with my dad.
00:58:01
Speaker
So daddy was a rice farmer and soybean farmer all my life. So I grew up on a farm. And once my parents passed away, I inherited that farm. I am a farmer. We love that, Jen.
00:58:12
Speaker
So then I continued and planted the rice for daddy, still plants the rice for me. And so now when they finish the rice season, we do crawfish. So I'm a crawfish queen farmer.
00:58:22
Speaker
I love that. So that's why I appreciate AFAA. I appreciate agriculture because that was what made a living for us. And so we understood if hurricane came and it knocked down the rice fields that our yield was not going to be as good. So, you know, you cannot, I think agriculture forming is the the part of life that can that makes the world go round.
00:58:43
Speaker
Wow. So that's why I value it. Well, thank you so much, Jan, for teaching and helping our listeners learn and for being such a ah pillar part of of our conference at AFA. It has been so wonderful to get know you and talk to you. Just wrapping it up, because you know at AFA we're all about building bridges and connecting people. Where can listeners connect more with you?
00:59:06
Speaker
Well, LinkedIn, they can definitely reach um reach out to me on LinkedIn because I like to see what what happens to the leaders who attend these conferences, and I like to see all the growth they have. i even ah People who I spoke for years and years ago in track two at AFA now run their own businesses.
00:59:24
Speaker
I have a young man in ah Oklahoma who ran a company called Remington who heard me first here. So I like to see the progress that everyone makes. So that way I'm on Instagram. I don't post that much, but at least they can follow me and let me see what they're doing. But I think LinkedIn now is the strongest method for me to see what they're doing, how they're progressing, how they're working in this world. And they can see what I'm doing too. Absolutely. Well, find Jan on LinkedIn. Thank you so much, Jan, for joining us on the Cultivating Leaders podcast.
00:59:53
Speaker
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