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From Dirty Data to Delightful Journeys: Gabe Davis on Personalization & the Power of People
9 Plays3 days ago
In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes sits down with Gabe Davis, Strategic Partner Manager at Cinch, to explore how thoughtful use of customer data can transform transactional moments into deeply personal experiences. Gabe shares his unconventional path into partnerships, how Cinch helps multi-location businesses clean up their data and build retention through smarter communication, and why empowering frontline workers is key to building trust and loyalty. From car washes to Chewy fan moments, this fireside chat dives into the future of work, leadership, and tech that puts people first.
About Gabe:
Gabe Davis is an experienced account executive and storyteller with a demonstrated history of working in the software as a service industry. Currently, he is based in Utah and is the Strategic Partner Manager at Cinch. He also has some past experience working for one of MustardHub’s competitors, but we are not going to mention any names.
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Transcript
Introduction to Mustard Hub Fireside Chats
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello again. Welcome back to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. These fireside chats are where I sit down for enlightening conversations with people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis
Meet Gabe Davis: Background and Personal Life
00:00:20
Speaker
Forbes. I'm pleased to have Gabe Davis on Behind the Build today.
00:00:25
Speaker
um Gabe Davis is an experienced account executive and storyteller. demonstrated history of working in the software as a service industry. Currently, he's the strategic partner manager at Cinch, and he just so happens to have some past experience working for one of Mustard Hub's competitors. I'm going to mention any names.
00:00:45
Speaker
He's based in Utah. I'm so happy that he's here with us today. Welcome to Behind the Build, Gabe. Thanks for joining me. Curtis, great great to be here. Real excited to to chat with you. And yeah, love love the industry that you're in. So always happy to comment on it.
00:01:02
Speaker
Cool. So let's let's let's humanize
Gabe's Career Journey and Role at Cinch
00:01:04
Speaker
you a little bit. Tell me some of the things before we jump in that that you do for fun. And how did you get into this role in partnerships? Yeah. Great, great question. So, so far as fun but right now, my, my wife is 34 weeks present pregnant. She will be tomorrow, 34 weeks.
00:01:22
Speaker
So fun for me right now. Yes. It's super exciting. It's our first. And so right now, fun is painting nursery ah nurseries, building cribs, ah just running around preparing for the baby. So that's that's taking up a lot of my mind space right now. But normally, I really like getting out. I'm i'm a big ah golfer.
00:01:46
Speaker
also really like to play pickleball, which I know is kind of a kind of a controversial topic right now to have... pickleball courts you know uh exploding across the country and yeah quiet neighborhoods now hearing the ping of a wiffle ball but uh but like yeah i like pickleball really like uh also a big reader uh big book guy so that that's that's more or less my my fun you're not gonna have a lot of time for that i do have to tell you this is going to be one of the most fun and most rewarding journeys of your life. um
00:02:20
Speaker
So I'm super excited for you. Congratulations to you and your wife. You have at least seven to eight years of baby jail ahead of you, um but totally worth it.
00:02:32
Speaker
I'm still, so i'm I'm sort of on the tail end of it um and I wouldn't trade it for, for anything. um So how did you get into this role in partnerships? Yeah.
00:02:44
Speaker
Good question. So I, and you and you mentioned there some of my background, my resume. So I came out of my undergraduate and there's there's ah there's a pretty good tech scene here in Utah.
00:02:57
Speaker
And i took a role at a startup that was in in your same space in the ah recognition, customer recognitions and reward space. And at the time it was a really small company, 12 or so folks, and was just wearing all sorts of different hats and ended up being recognized as somebody who could kind of tell a good story.
00:03:19
Speaker
And that led me to be in this account executive role, not that I'd searched it out or or even knew what that type of role was. It turns out account executive is just a fancy word for somebody who does software sales.
00:03:31
Speaker
So i I had that role for for probably a year and a half. i I took a ah year working. ah my My next job was a year working as a foreign market entry advisor at World Trade Center, Utah, which is a really interesting job.
00:03:48
Speaker
ah More in the nonprofit government space where we were helping local companies that wanted to get a strategy to go international and plug in some resources for them. So that was ah that was a really great experience. it gave me some more, I'd say,
Cinch's Role in Customer Data Management
00:04:04
Speaker
analytical skills, but still kind of the storytelling, consulting, helping ah helping companies, which I really enjoyed.
00:04:12
Speaker
Then I decided I wanted to up my my business chops and I went back and got an MBA and did and so it took a pause from from working for those two years.
00:04:23
Speaker
And coming towards the tail end of my MBA career, i I was presented with a couple different offers. I come Christmas time, and this is also a funny story that has to do with my my wife at the time we were dating.
00:04:36
Speaker
And ah Christmas time, the the the winter break, of your last year of your MBA is like crunch time. It's like, if you don't have an offer yet, you're kind of in trouble.
00:04:48
Speaker
And I, I was lucky enough to have a couple offers, but nothing kind of felt right. So I said no to all of them, which was not advisable for somebody. Yeah. Somebody who's about to get married and you know, I was thinking like, Oh, we're going to be going on a honeymoon come May. And,
00:05:04
Speaker
looks like my wife might be having to pay for the whole honeymoon because I didn't have a job. And so so I didn't take any of these offers that I had because they just didn't feel right. And then ah come come March, April time, and an investor of Cinch came into a class of mine and presented on it they were They were looking for And and i Kind of after that, after his presentation in my class, I like stalked him because I was so interested in what the software could do and I wanted to be a part of it. So I like immediately messaged it them on LinkedIn. I think I friended him on Facebook like I was just like, hey, can you put me in contact with somebody at Cinch because I think I want to be a part of it and I don't really care what the role is.
00:05:55
Speaker
And so we had a little bit of back and forth, me and the investor, and he he was like, well, are you sure they're really not looking for full time? They're wanting interns or, you know, here's a different company that I know they're they're hiring. Why don't you go check there? But i said, no, I want to be part of this one.
00:06:09
Speaker
And so I said, I'll take any job. And so I ended up um taking a job as and an account executive, which I'd been doing as my first job post my undergraduate. So I'd kind of come back to being account executive again.
00:06:22
Speaker
Not that that was a bad thing, but it wasn't necessarily what I'd gone to business school to to do. ah But but ah was really excited to jump on here. Again, it was very early on ah tech startup at the time.
00:06:34
Speaker
i think there was 13 employees and started out as an account executive. And did that role for... ah about six or seven months and then started to realize and also kind of raise my hand and say, i think there's a need for somebody who can run and help support our relationships with other businesses.
00:06:57
Speaker
not Not our customers, but other services that work in our spaces, other technologies that work in our in the spaces that we service. And i was I was lucky to kind of get that offer. And and our CEO, Justin, ah just kind of said, hey, go go try to figure it out. Here's some here's some guidelines, but but kind of run with it. So I've i've been doing this role now for for about two and a half years. It'll be, I guess, three years in November that I've been doing partnerships here at Cinch.
00:07:26
Speaker
I really enjoy it because it's this good mix of Still being customer facing, being able to tell stories, um interacting with with people, which I like to do. But there is a lot of strategy in it as well. And it's not just, you know, how do I get this quarter's quota figured out or you know how do i how do I finish up this deal?
00:07:46
Speaker
It's more long term relationships, which I really enjoy forming. And it's, it's a lot of strategy with, with other great companies and great services. So yeah. That shows a lot of trust. I mean, you, you definitely had to have shown them something in that six or seven months to allow them or to feel that they could allow you to take the reins with, with something like that, right. With those business relationships that they were building and forming and just, you know, letting you, letting you run with it. So kudos to you on that. That's awesome.
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. it was i felt I felt really, really ah lucky and trusted in that sense. And and certainly partnerships as a as a function within this business was something our CEO saw as very important.
00:08:30
Speaker
and And so I felt really, really blessed and lucky that he he gave me the shot. So one of the reasons I've been really looking forward to our conversation, um you know like Mustard Hub, organization you work with, Cinch, all about data.
00:08:49
Speaker
So really quickly, tell me about Cinch. What does the business do? Tell all of the listeners. Yeah. So Cinch is ah a referred to as a CDXP.
00:09:03
Speaker
ah Now, some people might be familiar with CDP, which is a customer data platform. cinches this relatively new category of software which adds an X to CDP. So the X is obviously experience. So it's a customer data experience platform.
00:09:21
Speaker
And the idea but behind a CDXP is you've got a ton of customer data that lives in a ton of different places. In your point of sale, in your Google reviews, in ah a web form that's attached to a landing page that's on one of your digital ads.
00:09:40
Speaker
You've got data that that might be from from a new movers list that you purchase. There's all this customer data that lives in these these different systems that aren't that aren' plugged together, that aren't talking to each other.
00:09:54
Speaker
Cinch's role or CDXP's role is to connect to those data sources and bring it all into one place. That's step one. And then clean and match that data and normalize it, which means you, Curtis, might go to a a local business that say you go to a yeah to ah a grocery store or something, or or let's say that you go to like a, or even if you have like a home service ah that you purchase, like you have someone come and do bug spray or mow your lawn, i you might have data in their point of sale, but you also leave a five-star review afterwards.
00:10:35
Speaker
And before you even had a purchase, you clicked on a digital ad and filled out your information. And your story with the brand is kind of is is separated. It's dispersed across these sources.
00:10:48
Speaker
Since she's going, oh that Curtis who left that review is the same go Curtis that made this purchase is the same Curtis that came to us via this digital ad ah that he filled out a landing page on.
00:11:01
Speaker
So so the the bringing that data together and cleaning and matching it is a really key function of Cinch. But then having really the ability from there to segment that data and then use that segmentation for really targeted marketing campaigns that are omni-channel and automated, ah that becomes the kind of the X in the CDXP, the experience, the marketing.
00:11:27
Speaker
So... you know Give me an idea. who are your You don't have to use specific names, but who are your customers? What problems are you really solving for ah for them?
00:11:40
Speaker
So I would say the we're really heavy, and anyone can see this on our on our website. We're really heavy in the automotive space. So some of the really big named quick loop brands use Cinch.
00:11:52
Speaker
And a lot of big name full service automotive for repair shops are using Cinch. ah Kind of the the other industries that we
Personalizing Customer Interactions
00:12:00
Speaker
currently play in are home services. So your pest control, your lawn services.
00:12:05
Speaker
like for starting to Yeah, we're starting to spread out more and more into general franchising. If you've got a multi-location business, you're much more likely to have dirty data or duplicate data that's just going to be able to clean and match for you.
00:12:21
Speaker
so So those are some of those places, spaces that we we plan. We're also starting to get more and more involved in car wash. um but But to answer your second question, you what what what solutions are we providing for these type of businesses? Well, if you think of your neighborhood, QuickLube, you might go to to your europe corner street, QuickLube, to get your oil changed.
00:12:43
Speaker
And you say, my name's Curtis. ah Here's my car. They'll service it. You'll be on your happy way. Six months later, you go to a another location of that QuickLube franchise.
00:12:56
Speaker
And at that location, they accidentally fat finger your name and spell Curtis with a K. That's a problem because now in their point of sale system and their management system, they've got two Curtis's.
00:13:07
Speaker
to me and And there's going to be a couple problems that waterfall off of that. One being you're going to start getting two different sets of reminders with different spelling. So they're going to be overpaying to market to you.
00:13:23
Speaker
And number two, they are going, you're not going to feel a personal connection. This is supposed to be kind of a neighborhood shop. It's supposed to feel local. They're supposed to know your name. And you feel a little bit offended when there's Curtis with a K that shows up in your mailbox or your email or in a text message. Nobody should be spelling it that way. I mean, we can all agree, but yes. Right, right, right. Wouldn't make sense. And I always use that example because this happened to me just in November.
00:13:48
Speaker
I ah was due for admissions test. And my local shop sent me two mailers. One said Gabe and one said Gabriel.
00:13:59
Speaker
The rest of the whole mailer was the same. It said your Subaru Crosstrek 2017 is due for admissions. Here's to 10% off. Come back in. It worked, right? The marketing worked. I came back in. I used the coupon.
00:14:13
Speaker
But they double spent on marketing to me. And I now feel like I'm kind of a number to them. I don't feel what that unique personal relationship. So so that's ah that's a big area that we're helping you with, which is cleaning that data before we do any marketing.
00:14:29
Speaker
I would say kind of a secondary, the really overarching goal is Cinch is helping you just retain your customers better, build better relationships through more strategic communication with your customers so that they're coming back.
00:14:43
Speaker
ah that I mean, just the overall goal is we want to help you better communicate with your customers to drive retention. That's just the the quick catchphrase. that I love that. I think, you know, what's really interesting to me is that while Cinch and Mustard Hub, for example, do very different things, we're both, you know, about leveraging data in actionable way to drive some sort of alignment.
00:15:08
Speaker
You know, we we both... help to engage actual humans in a way that drives better business outcomes and builds value. um I'd say that, you know, a lack of alignment between between marketing and or sales and customers is a huge ah people problem. Just a different one that we Mustard have normally solved. So I'm curious to know, like, what other people problems do you see facing organizations ah today?
00:15:37
Speaker
Yeah, so so one that that I think is actually very aligned ah with a service like Mustard Hub, we see a really big data collection problem.
00:15:49
Speaker
So if we sign up a new, let's say ah a new car wash or a new home service lawn company, and we look at their database, no there's maybe 10,000 customers on there.
00:16:07
Speaker
50% of them, they've got a phone number for. 10% of them, they've got an email for. Because it's a home service, you know we we get really good like maybe address count, right? they've Close to 100% of their customers they've got an address from.
00:16:20
Speaker
but But there's just not... ah and There's missed opportunities there when you're not collecting... all the data points that you can. And one thing that we've seen some of our customers do, and this this relates to a service like Mustardhug, is how can we incentivize our frontline folks to try and collect some of this other data?
00:16:43
Speaker
And can we incentivize them with you know extra gifts, extra perks, a SPF, Or some more points on a mustard type service where they, if if we as a as we if we as a shop or as a business or as a branch of the company hit X percentage of ah customers that we have an email, an address, and a phone number for, then we get X amount of points.
00:17:05
Speaker
so so So data collection is something that from a business operations standpoint is something that we see is a problem when you want to market and and training your team on that.
00:17:17
Speaker
yeah Yeah, we had a really good example before the name, you know, the name issue that you you brought up as an example. We talk a lot about culture here.
00:17:28
Speaker
um You know, and most in most people problems, you know, we see or can be identified and relate back to, um you know, often being culture problems rooted in in some misalignment between leadership and and their workers around expectations and values.
00:17:43
Speaker
but Really misalignment, I think, anywhere within an organization can be an obstacle to success and growth. And I can imagine it's an issue between organizations and its customers, right? Right.
00:17:54
Speaker
You know, are are these areas that often create less than ideal outcomes for businesses in terms of their customer relationships, particularly around customer satisfaction and repeat business?
00:18:06
Speaker
Absolutely. and And when you think about the places where we play, which is a lot of these multi-unit franchise model businesses, they all want to still feel like the neighborhood shop, right? Or the neighborhood pest control company or the neighborhood car wash.
00:18:22
Speaker
And if you haven't trained your team on collecting good data and inputting good data, that's going to be a problem. Because if you're using a system that's going to market to your customers, that marketing is going to feel inauthentic.
00:18:39
Speaker
When you get Curtis with a K or when I get Gabe and Gabriel, They are overspending. And i already mentioned this. They're overspending on us and it's it's not feeling as personal. And that starts to
Aligning Workforce and Customer Relationships
00:18:49
Speaker
hurt your customer retention numbers because you're losing that that personal touch that people actually care a lot about.
00:18:58
Speaker
And as as our society continues to get more advanced and more automated, the way to stand out is by still feeling personal. by still having that. And there's there's a lot of ways that we do that with customers beyond just ensuring that their data is cleaned and matched.
00:19:15
Speaker
ah we've We've got abilities through our partners to send like brownies to customers. And we've got we've got a shop that set up a system where every time a customer spends over $500 in one repair, we send that customer a two pack of brownies ah that's branded with the company's logo.
00:19:34
Speaker
We've got another small business that's just a one location business where we've set up connection a connection with a robot that grabs a pen and hand writes a letter to your customers.
00:19:46
Speaker
And he's doing that for for customers that have left, I think, five star reviews and he's sending them out a nice letter. And so so these ways to be more personal ah are just a way to stand out in a world that's becoming less and less personal.
00:20:02
Speaker
I absolutely love that. How do you think I'm sure people come to Cinch and there's bunch of problems that Cinch can solve.
00:20:14
Speaker
How do you think an organization can get on track with its workforce to create alignment and consensus, both internally and with its customer base, right? Which is primarily who you know the the problems that Cinch is looking to solve for. And is there anything you see working for your partners and customers, you know or for Cinch or a previous organization?
00:20:35
Speaker
um you know to to help that both internally and with the customer base? Yeah, I'd say for one, you don't want to be messaging customers ah in ways that feel unnecessary to the customer.
00:20:50
Speaker
If you're going to send them an email, going send them a text message, if you're going to send them a mailer, have a good reason to do it. yeah and And whether that's a promotion, whether that's a reminder, ah ah one one thing also just on the topic of of being impersonal, one thing that Cinch is really, really good at is identifying when are you really due for this reminder, whether that's a you're due for an oil change or you're due for your next purchase of ah running shoes, because ah based off of your usage, based off your purchasing behavior, we can tell when your cycle is ready again to make another purchase.
00:21:29
Speaker
and And so having a software like cinches is is really a way to address what we're talking about here, which is how do I normalize across the entire flow of my customer's journey.
00:21:43
Speaker
How do I normalize and automate stuff that that's meaningful still, that's targeted still? And so that's ah that that's one that that that I see as a big issue that we're we're addressing in terms of of keeping that customer engagement ready and and ah correct.
00:22:01
Speaker
um And then i'd I'd say other things that we see are customers customers want to feel special and customers will give you data if you... There's there's a trade involved there.
00:22:14
Speaker
If you ask me for my phone number and my email address and my physical address, you better be giving me something that's worthwhile. ah You better be giving me something that's personalized or else that whole system breaks down. So a lot of this is about the strategy from the company side.
00:22:30
Speaker
And then the execution is making sure that you your folks on the floor, on the frontline, feel incentivized to ask for those things, to put that data in correctly.
00:22:41
Speaker
Let me ask you about that last part. Um, because I think a lot of the, a lot of the outreach and a lot of the experience a lot of the communication sounds like to some extent, again, just to some extent it's transactional, right? The reminders, right. Or some of the, some, a lot of which is built with automation, right?
00:23:00
Speaker
How do, or how does employee happiness, right? Um, or or even Discord really, impact these customer relationships?
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah. So so your
Traits of Successful Organizations
00:23:16
Speaker
your frontline employees are are your brand in a lot of the services that we, a lot of the spaces that we service.
00:23:26
Speaker
my My technician that's changing my oil, I don't know his name, but in my mind, he is Bob's quick loop, right? Like yeah he is Bob.
00:23:37
Speaker
the The pest control service that I use, whatever it might be called, Mike's Mosquito or whatever, like technician that shows up in my house to do the spray. He's Mike. Like even if he isn't actually the Mike's Mosquito guy, he's him.
00:23:52
Speaker
and And so i think, ah you know, making, finding ways to empower your employees, um your employees finding ways to empower them, whether it's like through a mustard hub or through training or through equity, finding ways to empower them to go, I'm a i'm part of this business um is going to translate to the customer and the customer being ah happy with the service, right? so So that type of ownership, I think is is a big piece.
00:24:24
Speaker
you you mean you I think you touch on a a huge, huge... trending topic right now, especially in and HR, right? I mean, those frontline folks are the ones setting the tone.
00:24:39
Speaker
hey You know, of of any of these organizations that you admire, you know, not just the ones that you've worked with, um although I'm sure there are many, tell me about some of the common traits that stand out maybe in some of the leaders when they really get it right with their people.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really good question. that We just got back from a conference last week where the conference was all about ah how franchises market and and create a customer experience.
00:25:09
Speaker
there was ah There was a keynote speaker who talked all about how to create super fans. And she brought up this example of ah Chewy, the the pet online food. They do an amazing job. Right.
00:25:25
Speaker
Amazing. And so she she brought up this example that she used Chewy for the first time when ah her dog, she had a rescue dog, and the rescue dog was not ah digesting any of the food that she was buying. Like, there's lot of stomach problems. Yeah.
00:25:39
Speaker
And she went to her veterinarian veterinarian said, Hey, i need to give you a special type of food for your dog that's only available per prescription.
00:25:50
Speaker
um I have to write that prescription for you. You can go to somewhere like Chewy to get this filled out, bubble blah, blah, blah. And so she she went to Chewy, sent in a message and said, hey, here's this number for a prescription.
00:26:02
Speaker
you know Thank you. Just real quick message to c Chewy. She gets this like really long email back and she shared it in the presentation. where the Chewy person like made it super personal. Like she says the dog, I think the dog's name was Bear. She was like, Bear, oh, so sorry to hear that beers having Bear's having a hard time.
00:26:19
Speaker
You know, I've had several dogs that have really enjoyed this food. It's really great, blah, blah, blah, bla blah. And then she used a bunch of like dog puns. It was like, we're all paws here at Chewy or something. like I remember the the dumb ah the dumb ones they did, but it like totally overwhelmed her as a customer.
00:26:36
Speaker
Like she was thrilled. And she sends, and you normally wouldn't send something back, but she was like, oh, that's really great. Me and Bear are really appreciative. And then another email comes back and like another long email with like, hey, this is what we're all about here at Chewy, this type of customer service, blah, blah, blah.
00:26:52
Speaker
Another dog pun. It was like awesome. And she said that that happened, you know, four or five years ago. She's now like a super loyal Chewy customer. and And since she's kind of a public speaker, she gets a lot of people, she tells the story a lot of times and a lot of people share their stories with Chewy.
00:27:08
Speaker
ah with her. And Chewy, like, will send out ah handwritten letters when a dog or a pet passes away. and and and And I had an experience with Chewy. I came home and I talked to my wife after this conference, and I was reminded of Chewy experience, which was our dog had an allergy or has an allergy to chicken.
00:27:29
Speaker
And we had bought some stuff from Chewy that was a chicken-based kibble. And weve we learned that he was allergic and and this was not doing good things to his system. So we wrote Chewy back, said, hey, you know can is there a refund available?
00:27:43
Speaker
Refund was there immediately. And they said, what we would really love is if you could go take this to shelter. ah shelter Yeah. And so like I went and and took it down to like our local dog shelter the next week. And so like, and and I think they sent us like a thank you card later. Once I confirmed that I'd sent that, I think I had to send a picture and show them that I was dropping it off.
00:28:03
Speaker
And they send like a thank you card saying, know, we're all about um the the humane efforts to help dogs, blah, blah, blah. Like such, such cool experience that, and I think the highlights here that it's still really personal. And this is coming from a national brand that's,
00:28:18
Speaker
playing commercials on on mainstream television, right? Like yeah it's it's crazy to think like, whoa, Chewy, a big company just just wrote me a handwritten letter. Like that's just awesome.
00:28:31
Speaker
They, um, um, I mean, not that we have to turn this into an infomercial for, uh, for, for Chewy, but I'm, I'm definitely a super fan. About five years ago, we did have ah a pet pass away. We got one of those letters. It was, it was, it was impactful, right? So, um,
Choosing the Right Tech Stack and Metrics
00:28:47
Speaker
you know, it really sticks with you and, uh, they too, they do an amazing job, literally a clinic on how to build, um, you know, super fans.
00:28:57
Speaker
You know, I'm i'm curious just ah to pivot into tech a little bit. You know, I know that Cinch is ah is is a tech company, right? And you get a lot of data from your from your customers, right? And these data sources, right, are coming from a lot of different places. Do you think organizations are making the right choices when selecting the tech and the software that they use? You know, are there things that these organizations could do differently to better support their, you know, the data that you're getting or even to better support their teams if we sort of you know, tangentially here, kind of touch on that, the whole people problems kind of things, right? Or at least to increase customer satisfaction, you know, to actually drive results.
00:29:38
Speaker
my My advice is for any company that's looking at their tech stack. Mm-hmm. is to ensure that this tech stack is as flexible as possible and that the way that they are communicating with each other ah in terms of the integrations, in terms of the data sharing is as clean as possible.
00:29:58
Speaker
ah we We work in a lot of spaces that have older technologies ah that that um you know are are are maybe not as friendly to other technologies plugging into it.
00:30:10
Speaker
And and that's that's that becomes a real ah real hurdle that we have to jump over ah to do. And so organizations need to be thinking about in 2025, how do I have technology that works seamlessly with with each other? and And sometimes the answer is, is there a tool that can replace several tools?
00:30:35
Speaker
But that's not always the answer. And sometimes I think there's this, you know, i kind of compare, and this is this is maybe not
00:30:45
Speaker
not super nice to say, but when I think about Microsoft, um you know, Microsoft has kind of a strategy of we'll have the second or third best in every category that we we play in, right?
00:30:58
Speaker
We have the second and our best email service we've got in in in Microsoft Office. We've got the second or third best BI tool. And it's like we can kind of have a little bit of a competitor in every space, but we're not the dominant best in class service.
00:31:14
Speaker
And sometimes I think companies need to make that decision. Do we want to get the best email tool and the best point of sale Or do we want to find a other software that can combine these two, but it won't be as good?
00:31:28
Speaker
so So those are some of the real business challenges I think of today when we talk about technologies is do I go out and find the very best in each category that I care about? Or is there someone who can provide kind of the second best and everything or the third best in everything in all within one with one service, with one service provider, one technology?
00:31:46
Speaker
And so so that's ah that's a big ah ah big challenge, I'd say, for companies that we talk with is them identifying tech stack. How does it play together?
00:31:57
Speaker
Who's the best choice for us?
00:32:01
Speaker
That's really good advice. I think that that's actually a really good takeaway for anybody kind of listening to this. um a lot of legacy systems struggle with that, right? And I think it's it's difficult...
00:32:18
Speaker
It's difficult for a lot of new systems and new technologies, right? When there's so many older ones with siloed data, it doesn't communicate or work together so easily.
00:32:28
Speaker
um So definitely good advice. ah With any of these platforms, um especially the ones that are producing a lot of data that you're gathering, for example, do you think business leaders are even tracking a lot of the right things? I mean, do you think there's a disconnect between metrics being watched versus ones that would actually impact the business in terms of sales and marketing?
00:32:52
Speaker
Great question. i I think one of our biggest, and and not to make this a cinch infomercial, But ah one or one of our biggest strengths is our reporting and reporting around at marketing attribution, which means I send out 500 emails today and and I can do that. There's obviously a a ton of email services that can help you send out emails, right?
00:33:20
Speaker
yeah And some of those services... will provide you email open rates and and click rates and all that stuff, which is all great. And and we certainly do that as well.
00:33:32
Speaker
But when you think about a CMO who's got a budget and is trying to figure out what is the ah ah ROI that I'm getting on everything that I'm doing, I'm sending text messages with this tool. I'm sending mailers with this tool. I'm sending emails with this tool. I've got this for digital ads.
00:33:49
Speaker
Finding out what your ah ROI is a big deal. And a lot of the CMOs, a lot of the VP of marketing that we talk to throw their hands up and go, I don't i don't know. i don't know when Gabe came back in, why he came back in.
00:34:03
Speaker
Was it because we sent him an email? Was it because we sent him a text message? Was it because he we sent him a mailer? I don't know. And
Empowering Employees and Tackling Modern Challenges
00:34:11
Speaker
so Cinch has a way to to do that and a calculation that shows yeah what what really affected Gabe and him coming back in to get another service or buy another product.
00:34:22
Speaker
ah that That's a really, really big ah wish list on a lot of marketers. A really, really high point on a wish list. And I would say also,
00:34:34
Speaker
A lot of marketers don't know that they want it, but once we show it to them, they go, oh, that would be awesome. I mean, that's that's incredibly powerful in and of itself. I mean, that is that's an incredibly powerful selling point. Same question, though, but from an HR perspective.
00:34:48
Speaker
mean, is there a disconnect when it comes to managing folks and solving you know people problems in terms of... What leaders might watch, you know, metrics versus what matters? Is there, you know, important people signal that organizations need to start surfacing that's overlooked?
00:35:04
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I can, I'm not living in the ah HR world day to day. my my quick comment though, just as a, as a consumer you just as much about making things right when there's a problem.
00:35:21
Speaker
I care about that. But how how quickly are you communicating with me as a as a customer that has specific needs? And that that I think is becoming more and more prevalent in the current consumer in 2025 than maybe even just 15 years ago.
00:35:40
Speaker
We want answers and we want them now, right? And and yeah and and the the frustration that I mean, there's hardly a business that i and I'm not a Karen. Okay. I'm not always complaining, but there's, there's hardly when, when I'm, when I am ah when I'm needing some, some love from a, from a business and you call and you, you get the, the waiting music and you get the press this button to go here. And then this button, and can you explain what the problem is? And, and like ah HR perspective, and I guess we're, we're talking more customer service than HR,
00:36:16
Speaker
but um But that's relevant though. I mean, it still applies. Yeah. having Having ah ah quick response to your customers and and finding ways to make it right quickly and and giving empowering your customers frontline folks to do that quickly is a really big deal for for me as a consumer. And again, I'm not like living in the ah HR world or the customer success world.
00:36:45
Speaker
yeah i think that I think that using these real life stories, you know getting sort of your implicit ah perspective on people management through the lens of your work actually is amazing.
00:36:58
Speaker
makes this advice, I think, so accessible. I love that you talk about frontline workers because it's a huge part of what we do, right? That's super meaningful um you know to us and the types of businesses that we work with.
00:37:11
Speaker
um But you brought up an interesting point about how Times today are are very different from where they were 15 years ago or 25 years ago or 50 years ago, right? I mean, this evolution um has been very dramatic, especially recently.
00:37:27
Speaker
um But if we even take it further, like what do you think tomorrow's leaders need to grasp about people, right? The evolving world of work and company culture that a lot of maybe today's leaders are missing or that today's leaders Couldn't even know about.
00:37:48
Speaker
Boy, there's there's a lot there to think about. When I think about tomorrow's workspace and the the unique challenges that HR people are eachr folks are to face, how do you create a culture that
00:38:12
Speaker
makes it still feel like a family as a business, or at least I guess family is not even actually the right word, a team. When you've got three people who are working remotely, you've got one guy who's coming in only on Fridays.
00:38:28
Speaker
You've got people who are working on in the same company or even actually in the same team, but are on different sides of the building. Yeah. Or desked and deskless.
00:38:40
Speaker
Yeah, and all these are you know really, really interesting challenges. And I and i think about, i i'm I'm really interested in, I'm definitely not an expert in, but I'm really interested in ah some of the mental issues that that are unique to this kind of generation of employee.
00:38:58
Speaker
When you think about loneliness, when you think about depression, when you think about anxiety, all of these ah are trending at at such a stark rate in an upwards trajectory and, and a struggle for, for anyone in HR and anyone in management is how do i how do i fight against this and what, what programs, what ah culture, what policies can I introduce that fight against this for the simple reason of it's the right thing to do, right? I take it very seriously that, that managers and HR people
00:39:34
Speaker
are actually some of the most important people and your life. Like it's it's weird to say, like I had a ah professor in business school who said, you know, you always think about your doctors. Like it's so important who your doctor is.
00:39:46
Speaker
It's so important who your dentist is. It's so important who your lawyer is. And that's all true. Like you really want to trust that person. You want to have a good one. But you think about the effect of your life, the daily effect of your life.
00:39:59
Speaker
Your boss has so much effect on your daily life. Your HR team or policy. If
Creating Strong Company Culture
00:40:07
Speaker
your HR rep or your boss, your manager is bad,
00:40:12
Speaker
That's eating at you every day. Every single day. Every single day. If your company policy doesn't ah include ways to make you feel like you're part of a team, like it makes you feel like you're something better, makes you feel like you are appreciated, that's eating at you every single day.
00:40:30
Speaker
And I think these challenges are becoming more and more prevalent as we get in a more ah disconnected world, um a more online world.
00:40:40
Speaker
Even to tie it back to what Cinch does, and even using this story about Chewy, you know, Cinch... you know, the whole, I mean, if, if, if I was to distill it, you know, in, in, in some of my own words, right. A lot of what Cinch does is also really help personalize experiences, right. Within, you know, the, their community or ecosystem of, of customers and stakeholders, et cetera. I mean, and they do an incredible job of it, right. They, they use data, right. Data is obviously the, the backbone of how it all works. Right. But the whole idea is we use data.
00:41:15
Speaker
Um, we use information. We create these very personalized customer experiences through that data. And it makes the relationship between the customers and the business very close. I think about the example you use with Chewy and what a remarkable job they do of creating super fans.
00:41:34
Speaker
But it also makes me think like this company made me feel something so strong. Um, it makes me like them. It makes me think I would want to work. They must have an amazing culture. And that's what it makes me think about. And it makes me think, gosh, I would love to work at a place like Chewy because imagine what that life would be like if this is how they're treating their customers. And in a way, Cinch is giving that also.
00:42:03
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And, and ah you know, I think about there's also this, um, this reward part of your brain that fires off when you are giving somebody something that's, that's showing appreciation, right? Like just as, just as nice as it is, as it is to have somebody say, thank you to me.
00:42:27
Speaker
i also love to say thank you to somebody else. Just as nice as it is to have somebody laugh at a joke that I say. and sometimes like when it's my wife, it's kind of a sympathy laugh, right? but um But ah ah I like to laugh at other people's jokes and like maybe even laugh a little bit loud. Good. I like that. I'm going to be glad to have you around.
00:42:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. but like in Chewy's giving it its frontline folks, its customers success, customer support folks, they're empowering them to ah trigger that in their brains. They're empowering them to say, go go write the handwritten letter.
00:43:06
Speaker
go of that go use the dog pun in your email. and and And Cinch is is trying to do ah the similar thing and is doing the similar thing where we are saying to the marketing folks of the world, the CMOs and the and the and the VP of marketing folks that we work with, use this this really flexible tool to target just the right people at just the right time through just the right marketing channel to give them just the right experience to make them feel uniquely important to you as a customer.
00:43:40
Speaker
and And then hopefully as a byproduct of that, drive more business, but drive more retention business. that's ah That's very well put. um So if we were to wrap up on ah on on a topic, a business leader comes to you and wants some advice.
00:43:59
Speaker
They're looking to truly get it right when it comes to growing, retaining their own teams, or even taking care of their people. What's the one thing that you tell them, right? If you only had a minute before they walked away.
00:44:14
Speaker
I would say um not everyone, ah wants the same thing and you have a lot of levers to pull to drive protect against churn.
00:44:30
Speaker
And obviously i'm I'm much more on the end customer churn. But if we're talking about employee churn, you've got a lot of levers that you can pull. And the assumption is maybe, oh, we just got to pay him more money and we don't want to pay him more more money. We don't have budget.
00:44:41
Speaker
There's actually a lot more than just that. You know can we offer more you know more sick leave, can we allow you you know, every other Friday, ah two hours off early? Can we offer a program like mustard hub where we're giving you ah meaningful, ah meaningful gifts, like there's a lot of levers that you have to pull don't just default to saying, it's all about money, because because a lot of your employees and there's, there's a, there's a lot of research behind this.
00:45:14
Speaker
ah your employees, it's it's not money that always is driving protection against churn. so I think that's really good advice. Yeah. No, 100% agreed. Oh, thank you. Thanks for taking the time to join me today, Gabe. this was This was
Conclusion and Mustard Hub's Mission
00:45:30
Speaker
really great. This was awesome.
00:45:31
Speaker
Yeah, Curtis, was great talking with you. And like I said, I love ah love the industry that you're in. I love what you're doing. So always happy to support and anyone out there should be should be checking out Mustard Up.
00:45:42
Speaker
Appreciate that. That's great. Thank you to everybody tuning in to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Please be sure to like and share this fireside chat and be sure to subscribe to our channels.
00:45:53
Speaker
ah More insights are on the way. You can also visit mustardhub.com to learn more about how we help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge.
00:46:05
Speaker
Until next time, thank you.