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Rebecca Rizzio on Building Connections, Not Just Careers
8 Plays1 month ago
In this episode of Behind the Build, Curtis sits down with Rebecca Rizzio, founder of Luminous Talent, to explore the human side of recruiting and retention. With 25 years in sales, business development, and talent acquisition—and a surprising background in theater and film—Rebecca brings a unique perspective to building great workplaces.
She shares why recruiting must be proactive (not just “post and pray”), how culture and leadership shape retention, and why communication is the most underrated differentiator in hiring. From creative ways to source skilled labor to the role AI plays in the future of work, Rebecca reminds us that at the end of the day, people hire people.
About Rebecca:
Rebecca founded Luminous Talent in 2024. She has 25 years of sales and business development experience and over a decade of experience in the talent acquisition industry. She believes in a hands-on, relational approach to recruiting and is committed to delivering the ideal candidate and client experience. Her passion is helping small to medium-sized businesses become successful in finding, developing, and retaining talent. She’s also a film and theater director and producer.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Fireside Chat Series
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to today's Fireside Chat, Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Here we talk with people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes.
Introducing Rebecca Rizzio and Luminous Talent
00:00:17
Speaker
I'm thrilled to be speaking with today's guest, Rebecca Rizzio. Rebecca founded Luminous Talent in 2024. She has years of sales and business development experience and over a decade of experience in the talent acquisition industry.
Rebecca's Relational Recruiting Approach
00:00:34
Speaker
She believes in a hands-on relational approach to recruiting and is committed to delivering the ideal candidate and client experience. Her passion is helping small to medium-sized businesses become successful in finding, developing, and retaining talent.
Rebecca's Artistic Background
00:00:51
Speaker
She is also a film and theater director and producer. Welcome to Behind the Build, Becky. Thank you, Curtis. Thanks for having me. Very nice to be here. i yeah So I've been very much looking forward to this, and partially because so the arts is really important to me. I spent 15 years on the jazz circuit, and so I get to talk to another person very deeply involved in ah in the arts and theater.
00:01:16
Speaker
um You are award-winning filmmaker and musical producer. Can I hear a little bit about this? Because I'm fascinated.
Rebecca's Career Journey
00:01:26
Speaker
Oh, sure. Well, yes. it we Creatives, we just gel, don't we? Creatives find a way to each other. Yes. exactly It's been a part of my life my whole life. Theater theater has. Film hasn't. the Film came more recently, but theater forever. I started out performing a little bit. i wasn't very talented. I couldn't really dance. I couldn't really sing.
00:01:45
Speaker
loved musicals. That was the problem, and I couldn't sing or dance. So I had to figure out another option, and ah kind of a lifelong storyteller, I found my way into directing and I became ah a director locally here to the Twin Cities and did a lot of plays and musicals and ultimately came across an original musical that I've developed over the past.
00:02:06
Speaker
Oh, it's been, know, we've been at it about 11 years now. The musical is called Philly and the Dreamer, a really fun, high energy family show that is in development or is done with development and now ready to to move forward.
00:02:17
Speaker
And then i discovered film kind of more recently after I ah encountered a story that I felt ah was documentary worthy in that. And that's what led to the filmmaking. um it's It's very cool. um I'm a little bit jealous. Actually, scratch that. I'm a lot a bit jealous. um You know, I consider myself really kind of mediocre the music world, although I pursued it anyways.
00:02:43
Speaker
um But so. your instrument, Curtis? What's your instrument? I am principally a guitar player. I doubled upright bass. um Realized shortly after, right, that nobody really needs a guitar player, but everybody needs a bass player. and As long you play in tune and in time, you will have a lot of work.
00:03:00
Speaker
um I'm super curious. What What eventually drew you to human resources and and and the human resources arena, particularly in recruiting? I mean, is it something you you knew you wanted to do? Did you find yourself in the space and enjoyed it How did you get here?
Transition from Sales to Recruiting
00:03:18
Speaker
Yeah, I found myself in the space. I had been working um at Concordia College, my alma mater, in fundraising. So I had kind of i had a background in pharmaceutical sales and and decided that wasn't really where I wanted to be.
00:03:30
Speaker
and And at the time, following that, I was really missing the the creative piece of my life. Right. So I i was like, oh, no, I'm 25 and I'm a I'm a drug rep and my life is over because I want to be a director and I want to be on Broadway. And I've i've kind of gone this way and I can never, never go back. And I ultimately discovered that I could you know be involved in theater and work and um but moved to ah to a career that I felt more passionate about, which was higher ed fundraising.
00:03:56
Speaker
And at that time, had a lot of fun with it. I mean, it was storytelling. It was getting behind ah an institution that, you know, Concordia College in Moorhead that I personally felt very passionate about. And at that time,
00:04:09
Speaker
you know it kind of had a shelf life. you know It was one of those things where I was part of it. I'd been there for four years in college and I came back 10 years later and worked another four years. And then was kind of ready to get back into some sort of corporate, you know get out out of academia a little bit.
00:04:23
Speaker
um It was a slower pace and I was ready for a faster pace. And then one of the alums that I had worked with while I was at the college had a business that was a consulting business.
00:04:34
Speaker
And so I came across them and And just it said, well, i don't want to do anything in sales anymore. And then ultimately found that it was a different type of sale where it was really taking people and helping to find ah an ultimately ah ah ah the right environment for those people. So um it was it was it wasn't direct placement recruiting, but it was my first um my first you know step and my first ah no, I guess my first little forte. I mean, what's the word I'm looking for? It's my first is's my first first time I landed in recruiting. And I found that I really
00:05:06
Speaker
loved the, um, you know, the, the, the connecting the people piece of it. Um, and just kind of the understanding human human behavior piece of it. So I did that and then went to another company where I ultimately was doing more direct placement and then, and then decided to, to start my own business last year.
00:05:24
Speaker
Kind of, um, kind of a Renaissance woman. Um, you, I didn't realize you also have a background then in pharmaceuticals, pharmaceutical sales, right. Then into the people.
00:05:34
Speaker
business, um I guess, I mean, and and your own consulting, but i mean, to some degree, right, we're still selling. you're still You're still selling. You're still storytelling. um So utilizing all of your strengths in a couple of different ways. So I love having other entrepreneurs on Behind the Build.
00:05:52
Speaker
You have a ton of fantastic experience in talent acquisition, HR-related consulting, I'm curious, you know, having that experience, right? What drove you to sort of strike out on your own and launch Luminous Talent?
00:06:09
Speaker
And maybe you can also tell us a little bit about Luminous Talent.
Founding Luminous Talent and Company Culture
00:06:13
Speaker
theres talent Sure. i it was kind of, so I loved the, the, what I love about recruiting is it's not, um it's It's really understanding human behavior and and building truly authentic connections with people. Because if you're happy in your job and you're happy with your team at work, your life is so much better. I think I learned from ah young age right out of school that, I mean, I had those Sunday night kind of, you know,
00:06:41
Speaker
I can be like, oh, no, I got to start the week again. And I I love where I was at. We're a great company, Lily, Lily and company. And but it was a it was just not it wasn't something I like was super excited about every Monday morning. So I know what that's like. And so with recruiting, I had the opportunity to to bring people to companies they may or may not know and most likely don't know.
00:07:04
Speaker
and kind of open up a whole new world to them, which which I did myself when I left Lilly and I went to higher ed fundraising. It was just this whole new breath of fresh air. And I was able to make space in my life for the things that I really love to do, which was theater and and all that at the time. So I felt very passionately about that. And as far as kind of the entrepreneurial thing, my my grandma had, you know, came from a family of 13 people and nine out of those 13 kids had had their own businesses.
00:07:32
Speaker
um You know, they were they lived in this this small town. This is my next project. This small town in northern Minnesota. And and one had the you know one had the bowling alley and one had the furniture store and one had the grocery store. My grandma had the beauty shop. and Your family, like, had their own B&I group. like Yes, we did. with your family in it.
00:07:54
Speaker
I know. See, it's a Netflix series. I'm telling really is. um And plan there's probably some some connections to Chicago. They're Italian too. So that's that's another that's another piece of the story. And so I always think I had it in me. And a lot of the projects, and especially creating the musical, sort of kind of they would lend themselves to a bit of an entrepreneurial sort of you know focus.
00:08:16
Speaker
And so with recruiting, it was like, well, I really liked doing it. I didn't necessarily have any, I worked for really good companies, for really great people. with really great recruiters. So it wasn't, it was still a little bit of that imposter syndrome that what am I going to do that's better than anyone else or more unique than anyone else? And then I realized I just love to do it and I want to do it in the way that feels the most authentic to me and how I work. So um I want to work with the best clients that have the best cultures and I want to help the candidates that, that, that are looking to to kind of correct course correct in terms of their careers. So it's been a really great gift and it's been a lot of fun.
00:08:55
Speaker
Tell me about some of the clients you work with
Focus on Small to Mid-sized Businesses
00:08:57
Speaker
at Lumix. mean, we don't have to name names, but I'm really curious to hear a little bit about what that what what the makeup looks like. Yeah, sure. No, they're super cool. they're They're small to mid-sized businesses, all of them. they're they're not We don't work with the ah large, you know, the ones with great name recognition, right? like um Because a lot of those companies, they the ah and everybody wants to work at Medtronic or wants to work at you know like Google or Apple or all those places. And what's the most fun for me personally is are these these small businesses that have been around for 50 years and no one's ever heard of them.
00:09:27
Speaker
they um They have great, they have really great products, they have really great services and they do really, really well, but they aren't places that people are necessarily seeking, right?
00:09:38
Speaker
um As um for employment. and So we work with, you know, and companies that build software, companies that build and ah retaining walls, companies, that a lot of manufacturing, a lot of technology, folks that look for business development. We do a lot of business development type work um because we all have, yeah, that that's kind of kind of been become a little niche for like these companies that are like, hey, we have this really great thing going on and we don't have anybody out there selling it. So we need people to help us do that. And um And so that's that's all been a lot of fun. So they're all small and they're just, they're not they're not well known. And so it's really fun to be the brand ambassador for those companies. So as part of the talent acquisition and recruiting, you also do some light business development for these companies that you're working with. That's kind of fascinating. I haven't heard really of of that, you know, that
00:10:32
Speaker
I haven't heard of a lot of talent acquisition companies that have that side to them. Well, I want to clarify that too, Curtis. It's not that I'm out doing the business development necessarily. It's that we're helping them find the people to do it and potentially coaching them in in that world. So if we may not have, hey, I don't like, um we're a bunch of engineers. We don't know how to sell this thing. We know we have a really good product.
00:10:53
Speaker
um So help us come up with the job description. Help us, you know, All right, I follow. That's what we'll tip bit. Finding some of those gaps that they have and finding out how to source the right talent to fill those gaps, given that those organizations may not have the specs already put together. And so that's part of what you work with them doing is really developing these positions so that you're getting the right butts in the right seats.
00:11:21
Speaker
Right, and telling their stories because they don't they they can't always see it because they're so in the thick of it. They can't always see like what an opportunity to have for somebody. and Right. that's the best part of it. It's like, hey, like like Mustard Hub. I mean, look at these places that are – I mean, they're just really cool stories and really cool companies, and people just don't – they're just not – they necessarily have the name recognition, so it's fun to talk about them and just really get that – get the you know get their fit their fire started in a way. I bet. I bet. And it kind of – Makes me curious. I mean, are there are there specific problems or pain points that your team specifically is really obsessed with solving with some of these, you know, or for some of these clients, whether or not they even know they have these problems or pain points or not?
Active Recruiting and Industry Challenges
00:12:10
Speaker
i the main The major one, I would say, there's two, I guess, that come to mind. The the one would be... um I don't know that they're aware that that recruiting isn't a passive thing. You don't toss out a job description and wait for the right person to show up. It has to be very active and very, you know, very intentional. So so a lot of times they'll say, well, we don't need your we don't need a recruiting company to help us because we have, you know, Sally who will post a job on LinkedIn.
00:12:39
Speaker
And that's great. But Sally probably also does, you know, payroll and benefits and, and you know, employee, ah you know, in engagement and, and um you know, but they like like performance reviews and all those other things. Right.
00:12:54
Speaker
So there's so much work on that plate that that Sally isn't out, you know, you know, screaming from the rafters how wonderful this opportunity is to attract the right necessarily a lot of the right talent.
00:13:05
Speaker
So it's it's a very like getting out there and and proactively looking for the people. So some of it is just convincing an organization that that that is a pain point that they don't know exists because, hey, you're not going to just find you can find way better people.
00:13:18
Speaker
and i don't I don't mean way more qualified, way way better culture fit, all that. If you're more actively looking at the internet that way. I'm saying the pain point I would say is more when you look at more than manufacturing companies where they have talent, um they need the talent on the production floor.
00:13:36
Speaker
And it's really hard to find those people because they're they're few and far between now skilled labor is much harder. The trades fewer people going into it um and very, very good and high paying jobs. So I highly encourage those kids that like to tinker and play around with their head go, go to trade school and get and you'll come out. of You'll come out smelling like a rose. It's awesome.
00:13:54
Speaker
and but they struggle to find the talent. And so we could we could say, well, hey, let's go build some relationships with these technical schools so we can tell your story and kind of create a pipeline. Because those those people aren't sitting on LinkedIn all day on their laptops all day waiting for in-mails to come in on LinkedIn. They're out on the floor working. And how do you how do you where do those people go? How do you find those people? And we found some unique unique ways to find those people that I can't, I can't, but ok oh that are really kind of clever and, you know, a little bit outside of the box, I would say.
00:14:27
Speaker
I would, I would think that that's a misconception, right? About like, um you know, some just assuming that if I post my job, people will come and and clearly that's not, that's not the case.
00:14:40
Speaker
um I do like that you explore all these really clever and and creative ways to find people. so tell me more about why why the clients come to you versus versus others. What's the secret sauce in there? who who where Where do these clever ideas come come from? from Well, the team, I mean, good recruiters that we've worked with and we have on our team have come up with a, ah couple craigs well, Craigslist was one example ah for where where we found a couple candidates for a company. And I hadn't considered that. That was a
00:15:11
Speaker
That was a young Gen Z recruiter that came up with that idea. um But some of them, it's it's I think it's just thinking about where do you find them? there's there's more There may be yeah reason to be on Instagram and and Facebook more than companies might think.
00:15:27
Speaker
um because when people are sitting on their phones and scrolling, that's where they are. TikTok. We made TikToks. i didn't I was never on TikTok. I didn't make the TikTok. I had the i had the young the the young person do it. But um but those are those are kinds of the things that that we try to do. And why why they come to us, recruiting is really, it really is all, it's ah it's a people thing and it's a relationship thing. And I've been lucky to have been in the Twin Cities for 20 years and I have a wonderful network of people and A lot of people that I know and and you know, have sent referrals and that's really how a lot of it has come about. It's been just knowing the people, ah people that I've worked with in the past that come back, which is wonderful. Always a compliment. um
00:16:08
Speaker
But it's also getting out and networking and meeting new people and joining. certain, um you know, certain peer groups and all that. So you just, you get to know the community in a different way. And so you can, you can ask them, you know, Hey, are you you know, you hear somebody might be having trouble and then you're able to kind of ask the questions and potentially help them. So, yeah. Or you just somehow join your family and are part of immediately part of a peer group of, you know, like the entire community of business owners. Right. That works too.
00:16:39
Speaker
I love that you talked about being in the people business, um you know, to some degree, I feel like, and funny enough, the more that I think we, we lean into technology, right. Relationships become that much more important, right. We're all sort of in the people business to to some degree.
00:17:00
Speaker
um But we talk a lot about people problems here at at Mustard Hub and, A lot of these people problems start, I think, well before you know a hire is even made.
Workplace Engagement and Remote Work Trends
00:17:12
Speaker
um If you think of some businesses today, you know those you have, some you have not worked with, what are some people problems organizations are facing?
00:17:23
Speaker
Well, it's interesting. I think you know that there's there was kind of the whole you know hybrid, remote, bring people on site. I mean, that seemed to be...
00:17:34
Speaker
um a challenge for a while, at least of the you know with the larger companies too, particular. And and you know how do we engage people? How do we get people to want to come back to the office when we got so used to sort of not being in the office?
00:17:46
Speaker
Now it seems to be kind of the opposite, whereas we're I'm finding when roll when people are required to be on site, they're much more they're much more willing to do it now. they've kind of gotten that fatigue, right? They're like, I want to get back in the office and be with the people and all of that. So that seems to be changing a lot. And it seems to be too, people are, um, there's a lot of, ah I mean, personally, feels like apathy too sometimes in terms of professionalism. you know, we've lost some of that. You know, we keep coming out of school for me, I mean, I was taught i went to corporate America and I was taught how to write an email and how to show up to a meeting and all those things. and And people just aren't taught that anymore, really. So there's a lot more like conversations that we have with our clients about, hey, yeah he was on his phone during a meeting ah or he had his camera shut off. Or it seems to be like those kinds of things where we're losing a little bit of that
00:18:36
Speaker
professional polish and we're becoming a little too casual. And I personally am very casual, um but I, but I came, i grew came ah i grew up in corporate America. So I have at least the background where I kind of know when to, when to put the the the suit on, as they say, right. Which is changing. I feel like. yeah I think, man, i I really think you nailed it. I think that it's something i I talk about a lot with folks and I, I like the words you used professional polish. I've never used that. totally going to steal it from you.
00:19:06
Speaker
um But it is lacking. And, um you know, it could be for a number of reasons. You know, i'm I'm not sure. I wouldn't consider myself the expert to be able to identify where any and all of these issues are coming from, but it's definitely there. um So it is i mean, it's an interesting time.
00:19:24
Speaker
It seems like a lot of job seekers are having trouble securing a lot of, but maybe any, you know, relevant employment, not just roles that are kind of well suited to their experience and their skill ah you know ah level. But at the same time, I think a lot of employers and in hiring managers seem to be having trouble finding workers. You know, you mentioned that there's a lot of talent out there.
00:19:47
Speaker
um Are both of these things true? I mean, how are people struggling on both sides? of this equation.
Communication Gaps in Hiring
00:19:55
Speaker
Yes. And it's very interesting. I want to actually write my next blog post about this. I, I, um, I don't know if you, in the nineties, there was a song Reuben McIntyre sang called why haven't I heard from you? and had this little video about like, it's really easy to pick up the phone and just call me. Why i haven't I heard from you? Send a bus, send a plane, so whatever.
00:20:11
Speaker
And I feel like that's how candidates feel these days in the job market. There's so many really highly qualified people that they'll have two, three, four interviews with the company. And then, like crickets, right? Like there's no communication. it The simplest thing to do, honestly, to stand out is to communicate.
00:20:28
Speaker
It's unbelievable. Write an email, send a text, make a phone call. It's unbelievable how many people I hear from that say, I was, yep, I was the number one candidate, the recruiters that has internal and external recruiters, both hiring managers of all kinds, right? They're just, and people are busy. And I think a lot of it too, I was thinking, what is the reason that we struggle so much with communication? And a lot of it is because there's so many channels, right?
00:20:52
Speaker
We've got email, we've got text, we've got phone, we've got Instagram, we've got Facebook, we've got LinkedIn. We've got so many inboxes that we just can't keep track of all of them. And so it's just like, you just, you just kind of,
00:21:04
Speaker
you just it's overload and you kind of you drop, total you know, about 27 balls all the time. So that seems to be what a lot of the candidates are experiencing. And as far as the employers there, i don't know, there's a lot of hesitation. They they will have two, three, four interviews now.
00:21:18
Speaker
And there's not anything new coming out of that interview, but there's still I need one more interview. We need to check with another group, another leader. Sometimes I've seen it as much as five or six. And then I'm i'm thinking to myself, what but could you possibly possibly be learning in that sixth interview? And if I'm a candidate, and after number three, I would seriously start reconsidering my interest.
00:21:45
Speaker
That you know, thank you, Curtis, for bringing that up, because that's true. company The other problem employers have, they don't realize that they're that is a reflection on their brand when they do the things that they do to these candidates.
00:21:58
Speaker
And so I also feel a responsibility. It's hard because right because there are clients and and we serve two clients. we We have the clients and we have the candidates. but I it's my job to protect their brand, too.
00:22:09
Speaker
And when they're not getting back or they're saying, yeah, I'll interview them, I'll look at them in a couple of weeks or I'll get get to it when I get home. or get It's just not it it just doesn't show good consideration for these candidates because these people have been out of work for, ah you know, a month, six months, 18 months in some cases.
00:22:26
Speaker
And there's a hiring manager that's just kind of, eh, when I get to it. And it just doesn't it just doesn't it doesn't paint a good picture. And it's it's hard to to to say that to a client as a recruiter, but I think it's our responsibility to our candidates because ultimately they're our word of mouth marketing, the candidates, because they can be out saying, oh yeah, a Luminous got back to me or a Luminous dropped the ball or whatever. so that's So it's it's that whole thing that you have to be able to kind of manage, I think, which is really which is a good point to bring up.
00:22:52
Speaker
i I might even make an argument that retention starts at first touch. you know theyre They may not be part of the organization yet, but they're gonna feel whether or not they're a priority to the organization.
00:23:06
Speaker
And you know individuals like to stay with organizations that make them feel good, that appreciate what they do, that are considerate of their their time, right? And you know if at that very beginning of the entire process,
00:23:21
Speaker
You know, they feel that, you know, um lack of of consideration like you're talking about. um If they do move forward, if they do get hired, you know, right, there might already be a little bit of that bad taste seeded.
00:23:35
Speaker
pa You know. Yes. I don't know. So, i mean, you make a really good point about a lot of things that managers could do better when it comes to sourcing and and and hiring folks. folks What about are they getting in their own way? Are there things that they need to stop doing?
00:23:49
Speaker
Hmm. Well, yeah, no, I think they do a lot of things really well. I think sometimes um one one thing that I experienced a lot is I and I shouldn't maybe admit this, but I very rarely look that closely at anybody's resume.
00:24:06
Speaker
I talk to them, I look at their LinkedIn profile and then when I talk to them, I talk to them and I might look at it. But there hiring managers and people that, right, they just with I mean, I had a hiring manager. He just would run line that that thing and look at every detail.
00:24:19
Speaker
And i just think so i because I feel like that there, you know chat GPT is writing a lot of resumes anyway. So so to me, I want to hear what the person has to say. And I think you get in your own way when you discount a candidate simply based on a resume.
00:24:34
Speaker
If, especially if, if the candidate's coming from an external third-party recruiter that you trust. if it's ah If it's a third-party recruiter that just tosses resumes at you, different story.
00:24:44
Speaker
But if it's a third-party recruiter that you've you've engaged to work with you and you feel like you have that, you're getting that. that personal touch that you need, then there's a level of, of hey, you know what? don't Don't bother to scour this resume too much.
00:24:57
Speaker
Let me tell you why I think this person is a good fit. And then just trust that. Because if you can be an extension of that hiring manager's team, which is what we hope to be always, then you can have that real easy secondhand communication, shorthand communication that that is just that you don't get when you're just getting 200 and 300 applicants on LinkedIn.
00:25:18
Speaker
what about for job seekers? I mean, is there something that they could be doing better? are there Are there common issues you see candidates doing that are preventing them from landing the kind of roles that they that they want? i I think um that's a really good question. And I always say it's, I mean, every job I think I ever found, ever had, what is starting with My first job in 1999, before there was LinkedIn or an internet or anything else, I don't know.
00:25:43
Speaker
But that came through my network. It's always so much about who you know. And I think a lot of people get into their, because I hear this from a lot of candidates, they get into a job and then they they sort of,
00:25:54
Speaker
they sort of let the their their networking go. It's really important to just stay close to to people and to talk to people and to be clear with what you're looking for and to to not, I think, to not expect that it's going to, you can't, you can sit down with 20 people and, you know, a week in conversation and it's, it's,
00:26:15
Speaker
you have to be memorable and you have to be able to stand out and you have to, you have to be able to, um to open your mind, i think to other things too, because a lot of times people have a certain level they want or a certain, or a certain industry or certain, and by just getting out networking and talking to people and opening your mind a little bit, it seems to give people much more opportunity, but it is really hard. And that's why i feel that networking is so important, whether,
00:26:38
Speaker
you like it or not, or it's just, it it's, it, did a lot of it comes from who you know, or somebody refers you, or, i mean, that just happens a lot of the time. This is great feedback. What, I'm curious though, what role do you think ai you know, you mentioned about how a lot of these resumes are being, you know, created by,
00:27:00
Speaker
by AI, by ChatGPT.
AI in Recruiting and Human Connection
00:27:02
Speaker
um I'd like to hear more about the role that you feel like AI plays in all this. And I know that there's a lot of concerns from job seekers about the hiring bias, right? Keyword-based filtering, you know, that ignores a lot of qualified candidates when there's a lot of AI hiring tools come into the mix, not necessarily creating the, um you know, the resumes, but But the hiring tools, you know, how how warranted are these worries? You know, if they're genuine, what what should hiring managers and job seekers do to make good matches?
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah, that that is a really good and that's kind of um it's a really good question because it is it is a thing. And it's it's um I think that I think it goes back to the networking piece of it and really the human piece. I think there will always be no matter how and and AI is wonderful and it creates a lot of efficiencies and it's it's done that with our business, too.
00:27:53
Speaker
But ultimately, people are people. and And so if you can connect with people and you can find a way to authentically connect with people, you are going to get kicked up by bots. That is going to happen. You're going to apply for a job on LinkedIn. You're going to get overlooked, even though you're a perfect fit.
00:28:07
Speaker
That's why the more you can leverage your network and people and show up and be present and memorable, the better off you'll be. Because, you know, I especially i get a lot. We get a lot of applicants for jobs that we post.
00:28:19
Speaker
And i mean, most of them aren't aren't a fit. But if you're if your story is right, i mean, I personally look at all of them or or our our recruiters do. So we personally look through all the applicants. We aren't having a bot kick them out in larger companies. That's the case in smaller companies. I would say it's not.
00:28:35
Speaker
um So you you do have the the chance and the potential to stand out. A LinkedIn profile is really important. I mean, that because oftentimes people will look at that, hire managers will look at that. So if you can if you can be and reflective of what they need on your LinkedIn profile, that'll help you stand out too. And it also helps you get a recruiter's attention.
00:28:56
Speaker
So there are things that you can do that you can stand out just by being um really clear and and unique in your conversation. And I would say just You know, just keep talking to people because ultimately it's people who hire people.
00:29:08
Speaker
And that's that's at the core of all of it. It's not that's not. ah It's people that hire people. I think if if, you know, folks get something from this, you know, that that needs to be sort of sectioned out and shared on LinkedIn, because it's true.
00:29:22
Speaker
um Aside from the networking side of it, you know, what. What job seekers need to do now to be more competitive, um you know to to be that competitive candidate, to stand out in the market?
00:29:34
Speaker
ah LinkedIn, that's a great suggestion. I know that a lot of recruiters really focus heavily on that. um What else are you seeing employers looking for? Well, I think a lot of times too, they, um you know, recruit candidates can do things that they can, mean, a lot of them will get professional certifications or they'll, they'll do something, um you know, kind of go the extra mile while they're not working. They'll be doing things to kind of keep busy. And they think that's important too, if you can get a you can find a certification you want, or there's something that you're passionate about, you, you, you get on a board
00:30:10
Speaker
or join a nonprofit or help, you know, doing things like that, that get you out and active and doing things to kind of, um a lot of, you know, a lot of people wanna, they take time off and hang the kids or whatever, and that's good too.
00:30:22
Speaker
um But if you have some time and there's there's time that you have to do things you really like to do that you haven't done before, go do them, you know, take a class, go take a pottery class, go write a book, and do these things because you're always meeting people when you do those things.
00:30:36
Speaker
And i I mean, I've been, I mean, my worlds collide all the time where I'll meet somebody who, know, I've had former clients that have become investors on my musical, right? There's always these worlds that collide. And, you know,
00:30:49
Speaker
So the more you can kind of get out there and and do things that you like to do and want to do you'll meet more people. I feel like that way too, which all helps keep you fresh and not getting so, because a lot of it is just, you get, you get beaten down. And I would also say, have somebody that you can go to and just and vent because yeah it's super, super frustrating. And you need to be able to get that out too and kind of regroup and refresh and then come back at it.
00:31:16
Speaker
um I mean, that that by itself, I mean, the advice is incredible because it does several things for you. I think A, right, you're you you could potentially be building your skill sets. B, you're expanding your network. And that network, as we already talked about, is probably one of the most powerful things that you can do to help in your job search.
00:31:34
Speaker
And then number three, it kind of gives you that outlet, right? You can stay fresh. You can you know keep your mind on a lot of different things. And so that's ah that's pretty powerful by itself. So on the other side of the coin, then what do you but employers need to be doing to attract the right candidates to get the top talent that they want to join them? I mean, do you think that these organizations are you know generally well positioned to attract the kind of people that they want to hire, to retain? you know What are the but are the things they need to be doing?
00:32:02
Speaker
Well, was really common for a while to kind of, you know, put in beer taps and a ping pong table. And that was kind of the way to get people to want to be there. um Everybody kind of does that now. There's like beer in every cooler in the Twin Cities and, and you know, ping pong tables everywhere and all that.
00:32:16
Speaker
um It really, people ultimately want it. That was what you talked about earlier. They want to feel appreciated. They want to feel like they're a part of something. They want to, it's culture and and how you treat people and how you show up for them and and how you, i I mean, I've had clients that ah come, you know,
00:32:31
Speaker
companies are very toxic and shaming environments. and And it's unbelievable that that exists. I mean, i you kind of forget that. mean, you don't think that that's out there. You think, well, people, because that's an old school mentality of kind of talking down to people. And, you know, my dad would come in at one minute late to work and you'd get, you know, everybody would get in trouble back in the days, you know, ah back in the olden days, right? Like we call them.
00:32:52
Speaker
But now it's just so much more flexible and easy. But so you don't realize that there's still environments that exist where people are are not respected and they're not treated well. And And so just kind of creating that sort of fun team environment, it doesn't, it shouldn't feel forced. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't need to be, ah we have taco Tuesdays every week because we're trying to get people in the office, but show the appreciation and thank them and, and just create a culture of openness and positivity. And all those things are what people, you know, think about what, what the types of environment you want to be in. And, um and it's amazing that there, there, there, there are a lot of companies that do it very well. There are also a lot of companies that don't do it well at all still, you know.
00:33:30
Speaker
i um I probably would want to be part of any organization that has Taco Tuesdays. That's probably my greatest hobby is tacos. But yeah, no, you make a good point. and and And what I'm, you know, it kind of leads me to think, you know, those who get hired that stick around, the things that these folks really, really want in in these
Job Seeker Values and Leadership
00:33:55
Speaker
organizations, right? I'm curious what, you know,
00:33:58
Speaker
What makes them interested in a role then take the job and then actually stay on board, right? So here we talk, you know Mustard Hub, we talk a lot about rewards and recognition and non-traditional benefits and traditional benefits and portable benefits and perks, right? We talk a lot about collaboration and in and these kinds of things.
00:34:16
Speaker
When considering, you know, workers' total rewards package, what elements do they, do you see job seekers really wanting to see included? Are there certain benefits that seem to be driving these decisions for candidates or that seem to fuel the retention more than others?
00:34:33
Speaker
It seems like, you know, it's all the things you're talking about, right? There's the flexibility. There's kind of the, um I mean, we've been, you know, we're kind of a, you flexible PTO. We don't really have a PTO policy, right? We're a small startup, but we we let people kind of do the work. It's like more about getting the work done and being less concerned about how people get that work done. That flexibility seems to be really important to people. um and And I think too, i don't I don't know that the world is ever going to be the way that it was where you stay someplace for 30 years because you're going to get your pension and you're going to do those things.
00:35:06
Speaker
So people, things like profit sharing and things like um ah that the flexible sort of nature of the work and work you want to, you need to work from, you know, Phoenix for the winter because you want to go there and they allow them to do that.
00:35:21
Speaker
mean, those things mean a lot to people because they just seem to want to be, there's kind of that, this sort of, we're calling it now, ah it's going to be like this gig, sort of this gig, the gig economy, right? Where everybody wants, it's it's much more, you're in charge of your own destiny and your own future. And companies that sort of embrace that, sort of like allow the the the employees that want that entrepreneurial sort of mindset and experience, those that kind of allow them that freedom, I mean, they can they just can they can do super well with them because they just want to be little bit more in charge of their own destiny, I feel. A lot of people are asking, how much time do I get off? how much
00:35:55
Speaker
That's more and more important to people. And and um it always has been, but I would say the flexibility is just what happens when it snows, what happens when my kid's sick, Um, and just knowing that that's never going to be an issue seems to seem to keep it ultimately still though, people leave companies because of their leadership. That's the number one reason they leave.
00:36:14
Speaker
They don't leave because of the job they leave because of the person that they're reporting to. That's most often the case. Yeah. Uh, hundred percent. Um, I definitely, i definitely would agree with that. And, um, and I think you're right, you know, times have really changed.
00:36:27
Speaker
Um, you know, 60 years um Hiring you know was a lot different. you know People were brought on board. They stuck around, you know waited until they retired, got a nice cold watch, maybe a trip to Florida, and life was life was pretty good then. And it's dramatically changed since then. It's gone through so many phases, right? um There was you know this um this rise of ah what what I would consider maybe market culture in the 80s, right? Ladder climbing, um you know, which, you know, existed before then, but, um you know, it sort of evolved into this new beast, right? Followed by a lot of, you know, work-life balance, inclusion, you know, there were so many different things that I think we were, you
00:37:17
Speaker
seeing, I think over the last 20, 25 years, you know, all sort of culminated in this great, right. COVID came, right. The great resignation, right. We all felt it. And, uh, as we get back to normalcy, um and I think to some degree we have returned to to normalcy, but, um, but it's very, very, very different than it was before. And it's not going backwards, right. In the next five years, I think we estimate, you know, nearly 60% um,
00:37:46
Speaker
ah The workforce is going to be part of the gig economy, maybe not you know full time, but in some capacity. um And that's great. Like you said, people want some of that flexibility, but there's also some inherent challenges with that, right? Folks who are independent contractors then don't have access to a lot of traditional style benefits. And so there's a trade-off where people are making the decision that a lot of traditional types of ah compensation and benefits are less meaningful to them than some of these other less tangible things, you know, which kind of makes me wonder, are there things that employers are offering that today's workers just simply don't care about?
00:38:28
Speaker
I mean, do you feel like employers and workers are aligned when it comes to what these total rewards are? That's a that's a really good question. That's a good question. i i think because, you know, when you think about Yeah. Like what do the people really want? How, how much attention do they really pay to the, all the, all the details on the benefits.
00:38:46
Speaker
I'm sure that's, that happens, right. um Where a lot of people, obviously they care about their medical coverage and, and those types of things, but kind of beyond that, I mean, everyone's kind of the same, right? If if you, if most people will say you can work from home when it's snowing, I mean, that's kind because everybody can work from anywhere now. So there's a lot, that's a lot more common.
00:39:06
Speaker
So flexibility becomes less critical. And what becomes more critical is the type of the work that you're doing the type of the team that you're on and all those other things. So the benefits become less important because a lot of them are very similar when you look at what people care about most probably.
00:39:21
Speaker
And the you know they're they become less important and the actual work itself becomes more important. So I'd like to talk about maybe like salary and cash comp, right? There's a lot of factors that motivate workers, I think.
00:39:38
Speaker
There's a lot of and research out there, right? You probably even know it better than I, right? That indicates that money isn't, it's not a primary motivator, right? Kind of what exactly what you're you're talking about now, what you're referring to.
00:39:50
Speaker
um Anecdotally, I would say, you know, with with the folks that you work with, right, with the employee, job seekers, excuse me, that that you're that you may work with, right, with the employers that you're working with, I'm curious what you're hearing from from candidates around compensation, um you know, specifically.
00:40:13
Speaker
her No, it's a good question. For a while, there there was a period where it went like kind of out of whack, totally, like expectations around salaries were really high. I feel like that's died down a bit and tempered down. And it really truly is because we've had we've had a couple candidates recently that have taken me in. And everybody, you know, they have a certain range and they have a level of comfort. And it really does depend on your situation. They'll they'll leave.
00:40:36
Speaker
You know, they have a really far commute and this commute is a lot closer. that that i mean, that makes a big difference for a lot of people. So they'll take less money to be closer to home. though there's There's a lot of things that um drive people, and a lot but it it really comes down most of the time to the type of environment that they're in and how And how much they love that environment? Because if they love the environment, most of the time they're not going to be, they're never, they're rarely looking and they'll rarely entertain a conversation with ah with a recruiter if they're super happy where they're at.
00:41:06
Speaker
So they only start to respond to us when there's a little window and that window generally comes from, um sometimes it's compensation related because they've been around for a while and they should be at another, but more often than that, it's the environment. Something has changed about the environment or the work.
00:41:21
Speaker
There was an acquisition, the culture's changing. The team of, I got moved to a new team. I'm not doing doing the work I was hired to do. Oftentimes that that's that's a lot of the time what we hear.
00:41:32
Speaker
That's really interesting. The window. um we're we're We're coining it here first. The window. So we had to copyright all this. We got a lot of these today. It's true though. and And that is a very, again, nothing I've ever articulated in that way before, but that is a very real thing.
00:41:52
Speaker
real thing, right? It's that little window. Something's changed a little bit and now my ears might perk up, right? When I see a message from a ra recruit recruiter and feel like maybe this is worth my time.
00:42:05
Speaker
um Yeah, kind of fascinating. And you you even talked about it before, about the role that location can play. um And this goes back to what job seekers or employees feel like is more important to them. Sometimes it's the commute. Sometimes it's the remote flexibility.
00:42:24
Speaker
um Some people, frankly, don't enjoy remote work at all, um which which is okay too. um you know But being aligned on that front, I guess, can can really play a big part.
00:42:37
Speaker
I would be obviously remiss not to ask about culture. You know, we're we're committed to building great culture, you know, fostering workplace happiness here at Mustard Hub, helping other organizations do the same thing.
Company Culture and Candidate Wooing
00:42:48
Speaker
What role does an organization's culture play in the recruitment and hiring process? Obviously, not just when they're there, but in the process itself. Is it something, is even something that most employers, or excuse yeah, I mean, is it do employers consider it? Do the employees, obviously they consider it. How do they get that insight into hiring?
00:43:08
Speaker
what that cool look it's really interesting because there are clients that that really understand how to treat candidates right then because there's a there's sort of a a wooing kind of thing that has to happen from that set you're trying to and to to get them you want you want to show them you want the option to hire that person right you don't want them to walk away and whether you're they're super your number one candidate or not You want to know that if that turns out to be the person you want, you have a really good shot at getting them.
00:43:37
Speaker
And employers seem to forget that sometimes. It's like a lot of employers, and they are not employers that we work with because we work with lot of really great clients that that have wonderful cultures and welcome people and treat them well.
00:43:50
Speaker
But a lot of them have been in places I've worked historically too. You're lucky to be able to come and work here. You're ah lucky to be able to work for us. You know what? Not really. These people have a lot of options and a lot of choices. And if they're really desired candidates, you've got to,
00:44:04
Speaker
You got to win them over. You've got you've got to treat them like with white gloves. I mean, i I had, you know, I remember when I was interviewing at Concordia College, my alma mater, and I the doorbell rang one day. This is the olden days when people I mean, I guess it was well, wasn't really i was it wasn't Amazon. It was delivered by the mail or FedEx or something. And it was a ah card with a with a Concordia sweatshirt in this box saying, I really hope you come home to Concordia and work with us.
00:44:29
Speaker
And that was Eric Johnson that was the VP of development at the time. And it was the most, it was the most, I was blown away by that move as a candidate. Cause I was like, do I stay where I'm at? Do I make this change? And I, and I loved the place I was going, but he just said, we really hope you come home and work at Concordia. And that little touch was just like, wow. I mean, how can you say no to that? Um,
00:44:50
Speaker
and And those are things that I think we we just sort of lose we lose track of and touch with because we are so overwhelmed by everything that it can just be a little, um you know, really show these people that you want them and and welcome them. And rather than, hey, if you're lucky, you'll get this job. If you're really lucky, you know, let's that's not always the case. I, i you know...
00:45:12
Speaker
I think what a lot of people forget is that, you know, the employers and the the job seekers are vetting each other, right? You know, they're they're interviewing each other.
00:45:24
Speaker
um For better or for worse, that's the direction that we've we've moved in. um i think that it's a really good thing, you know, and I think that it you know keeps a lot of employers honest, keeps them on their on their toes, right? And sort of forces them to to realize that, you know,
00:45:41
Speaker
You know, we're looking to bring top talent on board. Top talent has opportunities to work in different places. um You know, we also need to put our best foot forward, right, and and create an organization that, frankly, people want to come to and then stay at once they get there. Yeah, once they're there.
00:45:59
Speaker
You know? You have any thoughts on how employers can start building culture and establishing and reinforcing the organization's core values prior to even hiring? That's a good thought. There are people that do it really well. You know, there are people that make it their business, really, like the in the gig economy, right, to help define and refine that culture.
00:46:19
Speaker
because there there are Because when you do things and it's so innate in how you act and what you do and that you don't even stop to think about it. So if you can have somebody that either another employee that just can be sort of an an observer of, okay, what are the things that this hiring manager, this leader, this CEO, this is, what are the things that this person is doing that are, that are really standing out, that are making people want to be here?
00:46:43
Speaker
Because when it's so natural to who you are, you don't even know what it is. And same on the other side of the coin too, right? So if you can if you can sort of find somebody who can help you to articulate that, that's that's what i've I've been using people, you know, just just um marketing some marketing friends and people that I know that know me, because it's it was really a struggle for me to be able to say, okay, why why work with us? What is it that we do? Because it's just the things that I do and I figure every other recruiter does, but they don't.
00:47:09
Speaker
So how do you find somebody that that knows that like that can help you to really discern what's unique about you and working with you? so that you can tell that story better and it could also be a recruiter it could be mean i can tell you why you should go work at my clients that reasons that they don't know exist because they're in it but i can tell you versus all these other companies why this one is a really one to go to right for what you're looking for individually especially I love that.
Future of AI and Human Interaction
00:47:34
Speaker
um And to start kind of wrapping things up a little bit, I'm i'm wondering what you think the future of work is going to look like. you know As all this evolves, you think organizations are going to be more deliberate about how they support their people, including using more tech to do it?
00:47:48
Speaker
you ah Do you see your own work adapting or evolving with a lot of these changes? you know and and And if so, I mean, what how? How? and know I don't know if we can really... really know for sure what it's all going to look like, right? Because it's, yeah there's so much of it that we don't know about. I mean, I i have a cousin who's majoring in, giving her PhD in cognitive science and computer science. So she studies AI, that's her thing.
00:48:12
Speaker
And I asked her before I started the business, whether or not I should start a business in recruiting or if AI would take it over. And she just had a really great perspective on it. She said, AI is going to make our lives a lot easier and a lot more efficient in a lot of ways.
00:48:24
Speaker
um But like i like I said earlier, People hire people. hire people It's all the human piece of it. So I don't, unless we are completely wiped out and it's, it's, there's no need to have human thought or, or critical thinking or true problem solving. I, I use AI sometimes to write, um, you know, we to write a synopsis for my movie, help me write the synopsis.
00:48:46
Speaker
And I, I still need to write the synopsis because the synopsis doesn't, the, the, the tool will never know and understand the power of the impact that the movie will have on a, on a movie viewer, on a viewer. Like I will understand and like people understand it. So we're, I don't think we're going change.
00:49:02
Speaker
I mean, personally, I think we're going to, people will still be relevant. I think you will be for a long time, i hope. Maybe that's just wishful thinking, but that's what i hope. I don't know. i hope there's not a day where I have to send my avatar for an interview. um But tell me, you know, tomorrow's leaders,
00:49:21
Speaker
What do they need to grasp about people and culture that I think a lot of today's leaders might be
Understanding Leadership and Motivation
00:49:27
Speaker
missing? You know, are there misconceptions, right, that they need to shake off when it comes to the people dynamics?
00:49:33
Speaker
I think that's really interesting. Everybody, you know, it's it's I think truly the best the best leaders that I've worked for are the ones that sure they knew what they were doing.
00:49:45
Speaker
um And this kind of goes to recruiting to that. The skills are there. But it's how they interacted with me, how they understood and knew me and what motivated me and how I wanted to be treated and understood and all those things. So I think it's just everybody is unique in how they respond to leadership and coaching. And the more connected you can be with your people yeah and the more you can understand what inspires and motivates them, I think the more you will inspire and motivate them.
00:50:14
Speaker
Which I think kind of answers, you know, the ah question I love to ask, you know, at the end, if a leader comes to you for advice, right, on how to get it right, literally from day one, growing and retaining their teams, what's that one thing you're going to tell them?
00:50:30
Speaker
Be authentic, be your authentic self. and But I don't think actually anybody can get it right from day one. You know, that's probably the first authentic answer I've heard. You're right about that. Nobody gets it right from day one.
00:50:45
Speaker
I came into my business going, I know I've been doing this a long time. i I've revamped and regrouped at least a dozen times since I started. And I don't think you ever get it right from day one. But if you but if you can learn from what where you've taken that misstep and apply it and do better next time, that's how we all get better. We just have to, it's it's the It's ah Malcolm Gladwell, it's failing forward, right? It's a learning from everything that we do. Don't John Maxwell, it's John Maxwell.
00:51:10
Speaker
Failing forward, we learn from from our skins and scrapes and bruises and bumps. and Yeah, I love that. And I think that in the world of recruiting, you know he i find that recruiters, um you know and and you know obviously you know a lot of experts like you in your industry,
00:51:31
Speaker
That's who's done the most failing forward, right? When it comes to hiring people, right? The most experience, you know, and having a lot of that to to build on and to work from, right? Because hiring is an inexact science. It's difficult.
00:51:46
Speaker
You know, we don't always get it right. But if you have the breadth of experience that an individual like yourself does, we improve our chances for success. So no I want to say thank you so much for speaking with me today, Becky. This was fantastic.
00:52:02
Speaker
This was so much fun, Kirsten. Thank you for the invitation and for the work that you're doing and for this, for this platform that you're providing people. It's awesome. So it was really wonderful opportunity. i appreciate the chance to connect. It was great. Thank you.
00:52:13
Speaker
We're going to have to you know trademark a few of these little quips we got on our call. There's book in here somewhere. There's a book in here somewhere. um for all ah For all of you who are watching and listening to the episode, thank you for tuning in to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build.
Conclusion and Call to Engage
00:52:31
Speaker
Please subscribe, like, share, comment, or otherwise engage with this fireside chat. And be sure to check us out at mustardhub.com to see how we help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge. Until next time.