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Culture by Design with Travis McAshan (Part 1): From Pixels to Purpose
8 Plays30 days ago
Curtis Forbes sits down with Travis McAshan, founder of Glide Design, to explore how design can do more than just look good: it can change businesses. Travis shares his journey from freelance creative to building a respected agency, opening up about the lessons learned along the way. From the importance of simplicity in branding to aligning design with strategy and purpose, Travis explains why great design is always about people, not pixels.
About Travis:
Travis McAshan is founder and CEO of GLIDE, an Austin-based digital agency that creates impactful, user-centered web experiences. With nearly 20 years in the industry, he leads a team focused on ethical design and strategic innovation for startups and nonprofits. Travis combines creativity with measurable results, championing transparency and positive social impact.
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Transcript
Introduction and Travis Makashan's Background
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome again to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these fireside chats, we talk with people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes. Today's guest is Travis Makashan.
00:00:20
Speaker
Travis Makashan is founder and CEO of Glide, an Austin-based digital agency that creates impactful user-centered web experiences with Nearly 20 years in the industry, he leads a team focused on ethical design and strategic innovation for startups and nonprofits.
00:00:40
Speaker
Travis combines creativity with measurable results, championing transparency and positive social impact.
Journey from Architecture to Digital Design
00:00:49
Speaker
Welcome. Thanks for being here, Travis.
00:00:51
Speaker
Thank you for having me. I'm honored. So you are a fellow Austinite. love chatting with some locals here. ah You're actually not that far from me in the in the suburbs.
00:01:03
Speaker
So... That's always a feel good story for me. Absolutely. um You originally went to school for architecture. To me, that's a straight line to user centered web experiences. I can see how that fits, but I'm kind of curious to hear what took you in that direction.
00:01:25
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you know, going back to your Austin statement. So I am one of the nine people that was born in Austin. and yeah I don't know if you were surprised it was that many, you know, that are still here.
00:01:37
Speaker
um But anyway, yeah. So I, um, you know i just I loved all things design. From the age of four, I wanted to be a professional surfer and an architect. and oh you know i don't know why picked those two things, but my brain has always been the perfect balance of left and right since I was four.
00:01:59
Speaker
you know I got my first computer at age seven, and I've just been designing ever since. and And so when I got, when I went into college, it's kind of interesting. So I didn't necessarily, even though I knew I wanted to be an architect, um it was kind of a certain I don't know, like the path to getting there wasn't like necessarily clear. Cause I originally was trying to find someone to give me a scholarship to run track.
00:02:23
Speaker
Oh, yeah. So I ran track at Texas A&M and then I think architecture was my second major. Track was the first, you know, quote unquote. um I spent a lot more time out of the track than I did studying. But yeah, i mean, I just love design, you know, just the whole, I really fell in love with the process, you know, and Architecture is just such a beautiful balance. You know you have art over here and you have kind of like engineering and science over here. And then like architecture is almost like the balance of the two in a way. if you think about an architect has to design a a beautiful building, but it also can't fall on someone's head.
Principles of User-Centered and Ethical Design
00:02:58
Speaker
No, it has to be functional. You somehow bridge that really elegantly right between design and beauty and functionality.
00:03:05
Speaker
Exactly. And so I always, you know, as, as you know, I left um the architecture world and and moved into, you know, the digital space, there's just this concept of a spectrum of like the, the esoteric to the mundane, you know, and and on the farthest end,
00:03:21
Speaker
the art is the experience. And not on the most mundane end, it's like, i don't know, a government website or something, you know, like, so yeah it's just pure utility. And so I think that the goal is that every industry, every experience is on, on that spectrum.
00:03:37
Speaker
And, um but, you know, I think that the, the, the transition that i made my senior year in architecture i um I went to the dean of the college and I said, hey, look, man, I don't want to be an architect.
00:03:50
Speaker
I really I'm passionate about computers. I'm passionate about digital. Texas A&M didn't have a liberal arts major. So I said, I made up my whole own curriculum for my senior year and I asked the dean of architecture to approve it.
00:04:02
Speaker
um And it was all computers. So i um it was like digital design and and VRML, which is 3D for the web. I mean, it's like all kinds of cool, crazy stuff back in the late, you know mid 90s or 2000s.
00:04:14
Speaker
um And he proved it. And so my senior year, even though I got my degree in environmental design of architecture, I was really already pushing toward graphic design, web design.
00:04:25
Speaker
you know, HTML and things like that, even back then. And so out of college, my first job was a graphic designer at an internet startup. And so, you know, to me, you know, architecture is the perfect kind of metaphor because it's the use of space, it's wayfinding, it's usability, it's user-centered, and all of these things translate equally to the web.
00:04:45
Speaker
And, you know, absolutely, you know, when you think about Jesse James Garrett, who wrote the Elements of User experience in the year 2000. um you know He talks about the layers of user experience starting with struck starting with strategy, where you're, you know, what what are the business objectives? What are the user needs? And then you kind of layer up from there. Okay, now you get into kind of scope and and and and then then you get into structure. So scope would be content requirements and, you know, functionality requirements. And then then you get into the, you know, the structure, which is the information architecture. you know,
00:05:19
Speaker
And so you have these planes that that kind of build upon each other and they all align with almost the process that you would build a building. yeah That's what I can hear as I'm, as I'm listening to you.
00:05:30
Speaker
ah Also doesn't surprise me that you convinced him to approve that having the, you know, several chats with you so far, getting, getting to know you a little bit as I have, um,
00:05:42
Speaker
you, you know, you're, you, you sell, i mean, you sell yourself well. I could totally see you walking up to him as a 20 year old, 21 year old and being like, here's what I got and here's why I think it works. So let's roll with this. And he was probably like, I'll rubber stamp it for you.
Gratitude and Building Positive Workplace Culture
00:05:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's funny, I guess the hubris of thinking that I just assumed he was going to approve it, you know? Yeah. um You know, you mentioned that you're super passionate about fostering gratitude and encouragement in all areas of life.
00:06:15
Speaker
And, um I really appreciate this, uh, this attitude, this approach. Um, I think, uh, I think that it kind of sets the table for really impactful relationships, right? I, I would probably say that gratitude is my least articulate of emotion, you know, something you can feel so strongly and never really quite know how to express in a way, you know, uh, that I think matches how you feel.
00:06:45
Speaker
um but But gratitude and then encouragement together. I mean, if if if you know you work with people or especially even as a leader, you know you are able to express these things with your people, i can see how and why the organization that you work with, you know that you started, has had so much success.
00:07:09
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's just, there is just a fun... I don't know when i started writing this down, but ah you know I'm a huge fan of of the intentionality of of you know what you think about most of the time you become. and um you know i mean Every day, you know i start with a journal. i even wrote a LinkedIn post that became really popular where it was just like, every day I write down three things I'm thankful for and then five primary aims in life. and You know, the gratitude rewires your brain. it's It's just a great way to start. And it's just such a low effort, high value activity to do every day. um And, you know, of my primary aims, the second thing that I write down to generally every day that I am the most encouraging person that I can be.
00:07:56
Speaker
And, you know, this is just a part of who I am as a person and what I would desire, like my best self, not like my average self when I'm not trying, but like when I'm, but, uh, but at Glide, you know, just cultivating a sense of recognition, reward, uh, gratitude in the workplace,
00:08:14
Speaker
There is a book someday I would love to write, which is The Belonging Code, and just like how to cultivate a culture of gratitude, right, to create a company that's profitable, healthy and loved.
Motivation Theory and Team Success
00:08:23
Speaker
And, you know, just this concept of how incredibly important, you know, the reason people stay at a company, like money is like number three to five on most people's lists when it comes to why they stay.
00:08:35
Speaker
um And, you know, number one is generally their boss or their manager. Number two is their coworkers. Number three through five is like work-life balance, skill match. You know, money is like, as long as they're in like a reasonable quartile, yeah that's generally not the biggest thing. And so one one of the things that we have found is how incredibly important recognition is in the remuneration, right? Like the um the value that they receive. of of belonging
00:09:08
Speaker
um There is a um a theory called motivation theory, and it's got three components. um you know so And they align with like the most innate desires of human beings and you know what motivates people. and i created i mean you know I don't take credit for this, but I i call it the ABCs. So you have autonomy, belonging, and competence.
00:09:30
Speaker
And so autonomy is freedom of place and time. It's like I have the freedom to choose as much as possible where I am and how I am and what I do and how I do it, um which is tough in a company, right? You know, so how do you, you know, how do you cultivate autonomy?
00:09:47
Speaker
um And number two belonging is is, I think, self-evident, but I mean, that is really where that gratitude, it it emboldens belonging is because like, how can you make someone feel like they belong?
00:09:59
Speaker
There's a study done by Google on their people analytics side called Project Aristotle. And they were just trying to say, like, what makes the most successful teams?
00:10:11
Speaker
And so, you know, they have unlimited resources. They did all of the research. They put as much energy in and rigor into the people analytics as they do, like, website analytics.
00:10:22
Speaker
um And ultimately, the conclusion was, the it's not the most charismatic leader. It's not the most talented people. It's that everyone has a voice and everyone feels safe.
00:10:35
Speaker
Those were the two components of the highest performing teams. And I think that when you have a culture of gratitude, I can't imagine a culture of gratitude that isn't creating a place where people feel safe.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah. and And that people have a voice, you know, because if you're constantly encouraging people and and sharing recognition, reward and gratitude, you know, that is just to me like hand in hand with the place that people
Glide's Mission and Ethical Practices
00:10:58
Speaker
feel safe. And which then, of course, results in high performing teams. Yeah. Yeah. we Obviously, there's there's definitely a business outcome to that.
00:11:06
Speaker
um You have hit. So many things that I want to talk about in just a little bit. But i I really want to start because I don't want to forget. I want to make sure that we start and and at least tell everybody. I would love for everybody to learn a little bit about Glide, right? Set the stage for your experiences and your thoughts on on employee engagement, culture, these people problems that that hopefully we can get into, right? So what's Glide?
00:11:37
Speaker
Tell me more about what the organization does. Yeah, so you know the fancy the fancy description is that we are a values-based digital creative agency. um The no pretense stripped of fanciness would be that we design and build custom marketing websites and do digital marketing thereafter you know on these um digital experiences you know for the purpose of marketing, right? you know Finding and capturing opportunity in the marketplace at a profit. you know so we ah We typically work with marketing leaders at organizations like startups, nonprofits, beloved consumer brands. you know We have an extensive experience in the healthcare space, in the technology space. We're in this like interesting time right now where we're
00:12:22
Speaker
consolidating our effort around key areas of expertise or key categories versus just being a generalist agency that will take any project under the sun. And so really kind of focusing on the areas where we have extensive, positive experience that has netted great results that we could showcase, you know.
00:12:40
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, our our deepest passion, you know, our POV, the way that we look at the world is you know I always kind of say that you could describe Glide with three words. It would be purpose, beauty, and results. So purpose is the air we breathe.
00:12:55
Speaker
And you know as a purpose-led organization, ah certified B Corp member of 1% for the planet, maybe people don't know what either of those two things are. But just using our business as a force of good. um you know About a third of our clients are nonprofits, but we have plenty of for-profit clients too. And there's a spectrum here. you know There's plenty of clients that you know are using their business as a force of good, even as a for-profit.
00:13:17
Speaker
Um, but our codified purpose at Glide is to pair beauty with results to help people who help others. And so that, that purpose is the the most important component. Um, you know, my life purpose is to help people.
00:13:30
Speaker
The, the, the, the company is just an extension of that. One of my favorite books of all time by Michael Gerber, the e-myth, you know, he said, Hey, look, don't go find a job or a career, figure out what you want your life to be, and then go and find a career that will support that.
00:13:43
Speaker
And it was this life-changing moment for me because like up until then I was just trying to create what I thought the market wanted, but you have to reconcile, you know, um, Ken Blanchard wrote a book, raving fans. And he talks about this concept of like, figure out what you want, figure out what your clients want and then reconcile the two.
00:14:01
Speaker
You can't just do one or the other, you know? And so I think that, that really helped me, uh, you know, find that North star of purpose, um, And then beauty is is more than just aesthetic, right? You know, I think a lot of times we use beauty and people get confused on what that means.
00:14:18
Speaker
um And for us, it is... the simplicity, the brevity, the clarity, the humanity, you know, the usability, the so just just a delightful digital experience. and and And,
Impact of AI in Web Design
00:14:30
Speaker
you know, I'm a huge fan of like some of these timeless classics, Mies van der Rohe less is more, less but better, you know?
00:14:36
Speaker
And so, you know, that beauty is like, it it should be a delightful experience. Like I think that the web is primarily a tool for information. And so like, get out of the freaking way, you know, like,
00:14:48
Speaker
I mean, you like you you can almost age a website by how many navigation items it has. you know And and we're we're in an inflection point you know with AI where I think right now, to be perfectly honest, like if you're building websites like you've been building for the last 10 to 15 years, it's like you're you have a buggy.
00:15:08
Speaker
You have a horse buggy. And down the street are autonomous self-driving car automobiles. Right. And if you're building websites in a traditional fashion today for the next, cause like AI, the way AI is moving, it's like six months is six years right now.
00:15:25
Speaker
And so like, if you're building a website, but that has been built in the same way 10 to 15 years or so, which but I have a i'll comment on that in a second, but it's like, you're selling a buggy and you're like, Hey, look, we have cup holders.
00:15:39
Speaker
We have the best wood, you know, our wagon wheels are, are you know, they move, real you know, meanwhile, these self-driving cars down the street, you know? And so, you know, I did ah I did a competitive landscape analysis of about 300 agencies and guess how many agencies,
00:15:56
Speaker
like mention AI in any shape or fashion on their websites, like just ballpark guess.
00:16:03
Speaker
Gosh, you know, ah You would think nowadays that there would be a a lot. am Am I wrong? Five. I saw five that explicitly mentioned ai out of three.
00:16:18
Speaker
And I just think that the problem is that the that the rapid pace of change and the fact that that the marketing industry is getting turned upside down And that, you know all of the other factors that are forcing people to just try to get the work done.
00:16:34
Speaker
No one has time to get the work done and learn all these new technologies. And then all the technologies are changing like every three months. And so it's a challenge. It's a real challenge. But, you know, the problem is we can't ignore it, you know. So.
Focus on Startups and Iconic Collaborations
00:16:47
Speaker
um um I'm going on a tangent a little bit because this is just obviously like the meteor in our space right now. Yeah. um But so so that's purpose, beauty, and then results. You know, like to us, the radical transparency of results is just that marketing exists as a cost center unless it is turning a profit. like So, you know, the marketing invested, how you invest in marketing, it should be returning a net positive.
00:17:14
Speaker
And so, you know, but if you're not measuring that, then it's really difficult. And I think that I have probably, i don't know, anywhere from 200 to 300 conversations a year with new marketing leaders, not new in the industry, but maybe new to their job, like at that place, like within six months, they've been working there. and And ah it just it always surprises me, even at the most sophisticated levels, enterprise, you know teams of five or 10, the lack of kind of focus on um what are we trying to accomplish like from a measurement perspective.
00:17:49
Speaker
you know And so you got to tell the story, you got to create a great user experience, you got to make sure the brand is represented well. and But then there also needs to be the measurement side of like how is this really turning the needle? and and And it's just three things, right? It's just, where are you now? What is the benchmark and what is the target?
00:18:07
Speaker
you know and And most people just don't have the facility to you know to be able to kind of do that. And I think that's what's missing in our industry to this day is just you know just the having ah ah like a concerted measurement plan before you go spend a million dollars a month you know on the marketing.
00:18:25
Speaker
So I'd love to hear a little bit more context about what kind of clients that you work with. You mentioned nonprofits, you mentioned some startups. What are some of the organizations that you love? I mean, i't going to have to name names specifically, but I'd love to hear a little bit more about the organizations that you really love to work with.
00:18:41
Speaker
That's a great question. Um, So, you know, I would say from my heart of hearts, it's organizations that just have a stated mission that, you know, ah the reason why I love these, there's three categories that I love the most, that I think that all share something in common, even though they're all fairly different, which is startups, nonprofits, and kind of beloved consumer brands.
00:19:04
Speaker
And, It's just like these three groups of of people, of, ah the you know, cohorts, they all have the hubris. They all have the kind of the gusto to think that it can change the world.
00:19:15
Speaker
You know, yeah so they're trying to move mountains and to some degree. And so you look at startups and it's always this idea, like an entrepreneur, one of my favorite definition definitions of an entrepreneur is there's a better way.
00:19:27
Speaker
Like the reason why most startups exist is because they look at the market and they say, there's gotta be a better way to do X. And, you know, and I have the crazy belief that I can do it.
00:19:38
Speaker
And I've convinced a lot of people to support me in doing this, you know? um Those are starters. and um And I'm not talking about like out of your bedroom startups, but like, you know, like organizm organized, funded, you know, um and then nonprofits, it's it's it's simple. these these These are people that, you know, with a lot of the nonprofits we work with, especially organized and and um larger, you know they have some really talented people that have chosen to take this path ah at ah at a detriment. you know They could be making a lot more money in the for-profit sector, yet here they are at a children's protection center you know putting together world-class marketing.
00:20:17
Speaker
um And so you know these are people that have bleeding hearts that just really want to use their life you know to make a positive impact. And then, you know, these beloved brands, you know, we, it sounds funny, but like, and and we're in central, you know, central the United States and in in and Austin, Texas and Torchy's tacos.
00:20:36
Speaker
So it's a, it's a beloved taco brand. A lot of people love their tacos, you know? So I look at this as like, There's people that will just die to drive hundreds of miles to get Torchy Stancas or you know Yeti coolers. right There's people that have gotten tattoos of Yeti coolers you know or got married standing on top of a Yeti cooler.
00:20:55
Speaker
And these are just brands that have become iconic and beloved in the world. And so getting to work with these beloved brands, i mean, the expectations of quality and excellence are high, you know, the stakes are high.
00:21:08
Speaker
um An interesting hyper growth niche for us has been sports and entertainment, specifically major sports brand stadium websites, which is kind of random. um So one of our most most recent projects was for the Kansas City Current.
00:21:22
Speaker
um One of the core partners with that was Patrick Mahomes and his wife, Brittany. um And so the the Kansas City Current and their new stadium, CPKC Stadium, is is the first professional sports stadium for a professional women's sports team ever and the in the world.
00:21:41
Speaker
Oh, wow.
Team Composition and Management Strategies
00:21:42
Speaker
um Never has a stadium been built for a women's professional sports team. And so when we when they reached out to us to build the marketing website for that stadium, it was just like this giant honor.
00:21:55
Speaker
You know, I have two daughters and, you know, so it's just really cool to be a part of like kind of making history, you know, in a small way. I mean, our transit is small way. That is, that's remarkable. That's really awesome.
00:22:08
Speaker
So I want to hear about your team. you know how many How many folks work for the agency? you know What does ah HR look like in at your organization?
00:22:19
Speaker
ah is that a hat you wear? Is this something your leadership team shoulders? Yeah. So that Glide, we we typically say we we're about 25 FTE. We have 10 full-time US-based employees. We have five full-time non-US-based employees.
00:22:35
Speaker
um We have about 10 part-time contractor hourly employees. And then we have another 10 or so kind of vendor partner contract folks that kind of all adds up to about 25 FTE. And um And ah we use EOS, Entrepreneurial Operating System, you know, for our business.
00:22:55
Speaker
um ah Gina Wickman wrote Traction and, you know, we employed that back in 2019. And I think we operated pretty high level with that. And so it has... Did you have an operator come in, an implementer? Excuse me, an implementer come in? Okay, great. We've had a couple of folks on board who who actually do that. You we've had some chats with and it's just an incredible... um it sounds like just such an incredible experience.
00:23:18
Speaker
Yeah. And we brought in an implementer, James Ashcroft, good friend of mine. He was in EO Austin with me. and And we worked with him for about a year. And then, you know, it's a pretty common trajectory for most people to bring in an implementer and then eventually kind of like take it over for themselves.
00:23:34
Speaker
um And, you know, I have a deep passion for business strategy. im I am like an avid reader. So I'm typically trying to read about 25 books a year and, you know, they're all non nonfiction and and and like at least half are generally about business strategy. And so, you know, I just love everything that Brene Brown, Jim Collins, Pat Lencioni, you know, all of these great business authors.
00:23:57
Speaker
um Gina, Gina Wickman. And so I'm kind of passionate about doing it myself. In fact, I've even moonlighted and done EOS for other agencies just for fun. you know profound And so it's just, you know, I find it a lot of joy in that. But So as it relates to HR, it's kind of interesting. I would say that, you know, HR is actually, i think I might get some flack from this, but it's better to have an opinion than not have an opinion. So, but I think that EOS is a little bit anemic on the culture and HR side, to be honest.
00:24:33
Speaker
I think it has components that are healthy and strong. Like for example, we uncovered our core values through the EOS process, which was beautiful. You know, I had core values from day one, but we really, they were always created, not uncovered.
00:24:45
Speaker
And so we went through a methodology to uncover them, which was awesome. um And they have some really wonderful tools in the toolkit. They have something called RPRS, which is right person, right seat.
00:24:57
Speaker
They have the bar, which is where you can kind of measure your team based on the core values, based on like, do they exhibit this core value? some Most of the time, some of the time we're not... You know, not most of the time.
00:25:09
Speaker
um They also have a ah tool called GWC, which is get it one at capacity for it, which is really cool. um And so they do have some components in EOS, but it doesn't really advocate for culture.
00:25:24
Speaker
you know, so these are tools to kind of measure our people following the core values that you created, but they don't help you like instantiate and live by these core values. And I will say that the other, um, tool in the toolkit of EOS is something called the state of the company, which is a quarterly meeting that you have to kind of share. I'm a huge fan of Brad Montague. He was the founder and creator of kid president and other pretty cool stuff. And, um, I heard him speak recently,
00:25:49
Speaker
at a conference and he said, you know, great leaders are having two conversations all the time, which is, you know, who are we, you know, who are we and where are we going? And, or this is who we are and this is where we're going. i think that's the way he said it.
00:26:02
Speaker
And I just thought that's so brilliant. And to me, the EOS state of the company, that quarterly meeting is where you do a look back and say, you know, this is where we were. do a look forward and say, where we're going. You kind of talk about your core values.
00:26:15
Speaker
um And so I think that part is really appreciated by people who aren't in on the, you know, the leadership meetings to kind of get an understanding and transparency of where you're at. um So that creates a really healthy work culture and trust and leadership.
00:26:28
Speaker
um Also, the other thing that EOS brings that is helpful for from an HR perspective is accountability chart that allows you to kind of like structure your team. So there's clear lines of communication. And the beauty of an accountability chart, if people that are listening to this right now aren't familiar, like it's different than an organizational chart. When you sit down and write an organizational chart, it's like you just put everybody's names on a wall and then you rearrange and connect them, right?
00:26:54
Speaker
But an accountability chart you it's like if the building burned down and you moved across the street and you started your business from scratch with no employees, but at the same size it was at before, what are the seats that would need to be in that company to make it successful?
00:27:10
Speaker
And when you when you remove people from the equation, you're going to end up with something different. you know And it's just so powerful. The other thing that it that it does is it creates these wonderful moments where it's like, hey, such such and such is not getting done. And you just literally, you just just follow the accountability chart up up the chart to the person that's like, okay, well you were accountable. And then people are like, wow, I didn't realize I was accountable for this because that's like their problem. Well, if you look at the accountability chart, you know, it all rolls up to you. And so
00:27:43
Speaker
I think it's been a really valuable um part and it also just helps to me clarify everything. It clarifies the tools you use. It clarifies your P and l It clarifies how you organize your like Google drive.
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah. um And so it's just a really beautiful thing. And, and from an HR perspective, it really eliminates the like, who's my boss?
Cultivating Company Culture in Remote Settings
00:28:06
Speaker
Who do I report to?
00:28:07
Speaker
You know, like, yeah, on Is having a really distributed team, does it offer any kind of additional challenges when it comes to that stuff? Yes. Yeah, I definitely think so. I mean, i think it's interesting.
00:28:21
Speaker
So there is a component um where I used to think that being remote and distributed was a huge deficit to being a professional organized company, you know. I remember kind of pre-COVID, if you're on a sales call and you're remote and you don't have an office and the dog barks in the background, you know,
00:28:40
Speaker
The jig is up. We're not professional, you know? Right. well right And, you know, obviously post COVID, you know, being working from home, being remote has has been completely normalized um as just a way of being. But, but so like, i used to have this kind of fear that, well, you can't have a healthy, culture you can't have an award winning culture in a remote company. It's not possible because you're not together physically.
00:29:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I remember reaching out to John Ekman. At the time, he was the CEO and founder of 10Up. They've recently merged with another agency.
00:29:17
Speaker
um But at the time, they were about 10 times larger than us. So if we had 25 people, they had 250 people, you whatever. you know whatever And um so I was just reaching out to him as kind of like a mentor. i was like, can I just get 30 or 45 minutes of your time?
00:29:33
Speaker
and look up to you. um And we were we were talking and and I was just asking him questions about like how to create a great culture. And he said, Travis, do you think that having a physical office is a prerequisite for a healthy work culture?
00:29:49
Speaker
I said, well, I thought it was. But let mean I think five or six years ago, lot of people thought remote teams couldn't build you know culture within an organization. So, you know, it's the way most people thought.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah. and And so like his his answer was that the thing that flipped the switch in my brain that made it crystal clear was like there are plenty of companies, probably more than less, that have toxic work cultures and they have physical presence.
00:30:17
Speaker
So clearly just being physically present is not what creates a healthy work culture. He said what creates a healthy work culture is intentionality. Do you want to have a healthy work culture? You have to deeply desire it because it's a hard thing to create.
00:30:32
Speaker
So that would, that just changed everything for me. i think that was in like 2019. um And I just went on this journey to change everything about the company. I mean, at the time it was like the Wizard of Oz. I mean, I literally just had it ah contractors and um i I had hired some people, you know, about five years before, had some bad experiences. And I was like, you know what? I don't want any employees. I want a paycheck to be their boss.
00:30:58
Speaker
You know, like, yeah. And, you know, I don't, and, and, and so i hired a business coach and going through that process, I came across a quote that totally changed my entire tra trajectory and direction, which was you're either building your dream or someone is paying you to build theirs.
00:31:16
Speaker
And when I read that quote, it was like someone stabbed me in the chest because I looked at all these contractors and I said, the second they stopped twiddling their fingers, they get nothing. right They have nothing to show for it.
00:31:28
Speaker
You know, they don't have any, they don't even have a safety net of insurance of, of, you know, 401k of, you know, nothing. And so I just felt like so ah i ah impacted. and i was just like, man, I got to share this opportunity that these people are helping me create.
00:31:47
Speaker
um It cannot just be all mine. And so I, you know, I made a plan. but started with my top three people. and I said, okay, you guys are now all full time employees, you know, and then over a period of a few years, you know, so we went from being literally just a loose collection of freelancers having, you know, slack and a paycheck.
00:32:09
Speaker
to, know, two-time Inc. 5000 company, two-time Inc. Best Place to Work, you know, um and, ah you know the kind of the sky's the limit. And so in ah in a five-year span.
00:32:22
Speaker
And so, in fact, it was pretty cool. We just found out um last week that we made Inc. Best Place to Work for the second year in a row. Congratulations. Yeah. That's awesome, Travis. Yeah. There's only like 500, maybe a little over 500 companies in the US. Only 20 in Austin you know made the list. um So it's just like, it's intentionality.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, if you're not intentionally creating your culture, you know it will be created for you. ah you know and and that's not always... a good thing.
00:32:56
Speaker
So I can totally, I can totally appreciate that. So i how would you describe the culture at glide?
00:33:07
Speaker
That's a good question. You know, it's funny when I was thinking about this, I was kind of writing a ah LinkedIn post to share, you know, some of this, of our journey, you know, and it's, It's kind of like um you know the um the Kansas City Chiefs are trying to go for a three-peat, right? you know like Or you know they were in in in the NFL, or then you have you know other organizations like in the NBA. It's like how incredibly difficult it is to win anything big three times.
00:33:39
Speaker
Because every time you win, you can't just do whatever you were doing before. Everybody else adjusts. Yeah. And so it requires an increase in commitment. And I feel like we're in a we're in this kind of like honeymoon phase post having one now, this best place to work twice, where we're in a poly crisis. Like, I mean, you know, yeah, like during the Cold War, kids hid under their desk for, you know, for fear of nuclear winter. but like, we're in a like the world is like, it's a pretty crazy place. You know, on top of that, AI is changing everything that we do. It's difficult to like think 12 months from now or or or but one year, two years from now.
00:34:18
Speaker
and um And so it is it has been a challenge. you know And i was talking to our VP, Brooke Michelli, this past week, and we were just kind of talking about how incredibly challenging it is to keep your team engaged.
00:34:33
Speaker
um And here's an interesting thought. So generally speaking, you want to decrease turnover at your company. You want to increase retention.
00:34:45
Speaker
But when you create like industry leading benefits, the app, yeah the opposite actually happens. Like sometimes you keep people too long, you know, and they're at some, at some level, you should have a healthy amount of turnover, you know, where people just no longer fit where you're trying to go, but they stay because they don't want to go anywhere else.
00:35:05
Speaker
yeah And so that has been an interesting thing. I mean, when we, when we rolled out the four day work week, I mean, It's kind of insanity at a professional services company that lives and dies by the billable hour to take an entire day off the week and you know ah and still pay people you know healthy, you know competitive salaries with a bunch of benefits.
00:35:31
Speaker
and um And that's just one of many. you know we We also kind of rolled out unlimited time off with a mandate of a minimum of one week per quarter or four weeks per year, plus the four-day work week.
00:35:42
Speaker
you know And so it's like, you know, I'm in ah an entrepreneurial group and my group kind is like, well, Travis, why don't you go to a three-day work week? What's your problem? Do you have a fundamental objection to making money? You know, yeah they all think I should start a nonprofit and just stop trying to be a for-profit. But my point is, it it is a challenge to to try to push all of these levers at the same time. So we are a certified B Corp.
00:36:11
Speaker
And that means that we are trying to use our business as a force of good. But on top of that, I had to push even further and we created two impact business models. One of the two is donating 20% of our profit bedded nonprofits.
00:36:23
Speaker
And that's a, that's a pretty significant chunk. And I'm the sole owner of the company, you know, so that's basically like just coming out of but you know my
Balancing Personal and Collective Dreams in Companies
00:36:33
Speaker
ownership. And so, so, but then on top of that, like the 40 work week, these are like at odds to having a profitable company.
00:36:42
Speaker
You know, it's, it's pretty amazing though. You know, you, I'm just going to like draw some correlation here. You had talked about you're either building your dream or you're getting paid to build somebody else's dream.
00:36:56
Speaker
And, you know, maybe there's a common dream out there that we all are, working towards something that's meaningful to us, right. That impacts the community, right. Where we can balance our lives in a particular way that, you know, it you have almost, um you're, you're giving some of the ownership of that dream, right. To the people that, that you work with and there, you know, some people don't necessarily have a dream to create this company or that company or be in this space. And maybe the dream is a lifestyle dream, right.
00:37:33
Speaker
um you've been able to give people that you work with a little bit of ownership over what that dream is that they are working towards. And yes, they're also getting paid at the same time, right?
00:37:44
Speaker
yeah They're getting paid to build your dream, but they're also getting paid to build their dream. you know because it's very much and in in the same line, um which is kind of what you're talking about. You've you've now built this ah this culture where nobody wants to leave for good or bad.
00:38:02
Speaker
um So you know i i I kind of wanted to draw that that correlation and i I see it. It's really you know it's it's it's clear and it makes sense. I mean, nobody's going to want anywhere.
00:38:14
Speaker
Yeah. And it and i I love that. And that's ah that's a great kind of synopsis. And, you know, I think that one of my favorite things is, I mean, again, it just kind of goes back to those core pillars of autonomy, belonging, competence. and And by the way, competence just being helping self-actualization. How can you help people be the best version of themselves?
00:38:35
Speaker
Yeah. I read an article many years ago about like, you know, healthy relationships, whether it's friendship, marriage, you name it, business partnership, but in the healthiest relationships, There's this concept called self-expansion where, you know, each person is contributing to the relationship in a way to become a better version of yourself.
00:38:53
Speaker
And you're also experiencing these things together and challenging each other to grow and become a better version of yourself and, and healthy relationships, whether it's a marriage or a partnership or even an employee owner,
00:39:04
Speaker
you know, that's
Leadership and Core Values
00:39:05
Speaker
happening. Right. And, um, in an altruistic way, ideally, you know, and I mean, it's just like, it's crazy how many books like bounce through my head when I'm on a podcast, you know, like every time I'm i'm just like, man, i feel like whoever's listening is going like, does this guy have any of his own original thoughts? Yeah.
00:39:25
Speaker
and You've done your homework. So that's a good thing. Yeah, it's true. It's true. I, you know, there's another book that I love that really kind of aligns with this called if like one of the best books I read in 2023, uh, it's called the human brand.
00:39:39
Speaker
And I love when people do the research, like here's our life's research and you can read it in like four hours. Like, and so it's just like, it's almost,
00:39:50
Speaker
unfair. that's home I was was just about to say the same thing. Yeah. Like, and so like, to me, that is the beauty of reading. The information density in a book is just so much greater than a podcast, than, um you know, than an article, you know, um, than a movie or a documentary, like, because generally speaking, many books are someone's life's work.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah. That's true. Yeah. And the average author has probably read a thousand to two thousand books themselves, you know, and so you're just getting the synthesis of all of this knowledge and life experience.
00:40:24
Speaker
But so, you know, warmth and confidence. I mean, the human brand is about this concept of warmth and competence. And it's such a beautiful concept, um especially for leadership.
00:40:35
Speaker
because I think everyone can kind of, ah everyone can respect the two by two matrix, you know, like, which is worth and competences like warmth is, you know, what are my, so human beings from, from the dawn of time have been engineered to, you our goal is when I'm looking at any other person, I'm immediately trying to say, what is this person's intentions? And are they in my best interest?
00:40:59
Speaker
You know, because that's just staying alive, you know, and in in the modern context, that's just like, is this person going to help me or hurt me? You know? And, um, so warmth is what are your intentions? Are they in my best interest? And, and, uh, incompetence is, ah what is your ability to act on those intentions?
00:41:17
Speaker
And so the best intentions, which, you know, it's like that you want, you want the best for me, even over yourself, that would be the very best intentions, you know, and then competence is again, your ability to act on those things. And so this two by two kind of concept is like, you can have someone who is not warm and not competent,
00:41:35
Speaker
This would be like, I don't know, a homeless person on the street that ah you know that has no offer to help you. you know Someone who's warm but not competent would be like your grandma laying in bed or something like that. you know And then you have someone who is competent but not warm would be like a dictator.
00:41:50
Speaker
You know, like that they that they're clearly capable of doing what they say they're going to do, but there's zero warmth. But the goal, again, is like the true goal of a great leader. And I like to create a great culture is to have that warmth and competence. And the reason I bring this up is because I think that most leaders find that they dip into this to this place of of competence without warmth, you know.
00:42:14
Speaker
and you're under pressure, you know, my way or the highway, you're not doing it right, you know, and leadership is all about letting go and and allowing people to learn and grow, you know, without, you know, dictating everything that needs to be done. And, and I think that I have been guilty of this ah lot over the years, and it's just finding a way to be both warm, warm and competent. Like, so it's like,
00:42:40
Speaker
It's like the criticism sandwich, like the perfect example of warmth and confidence, right? But I think one way to have a really healthy work culture is for leadership to have competence and warmth.
00:42:51
Speaker
Because if you miss one or two of those, there is a lack of trust you know in leadership. Yeah, that's a really great, there's a really great point. You know, and and I mean, I think additionally, right, poor I mean, poor communication obviously can cause a lot of misalignment, you know, and wasted effort between, um you know, leadership and, um you know, and and and and others, you know, leading to a lot of people problems. I think companies, lot of a lot of companies fail to live their values daily, ah which damages a lot of this trust and engagement, right? if We have things on a
00:43:26
Speaker
ah like words on a wall. We don't pay attention to them. We don't reference them. We don't live them. You know, it, that can damage a lot of that trust. um Just from your, you know, but drawing drawing out some, some implicit perspective, I think on on people management, I mean, what, what are the signs, symptoms, you know, that, that these things are, are issues, you know, what are the best ways to approach them when you see them?
00:43:52
Speaker
Yeah. I mean,
00:43:56
Speaker
Interestingly, with values, that's like a whole conversation. But it is I think values are honestly the the most important thing. I think even more important in some ways than purpose, mission, or vision.
00:44:09
Speaker
Because values will help you course correct to the right path. you know And um one of the other huge insights for me about values, and to kind of go back to your question, is that you don't create values, you uncover them. So when you say you're not living your values, I would say, well, they're not really the values.
00:44:28
Speaker
you know like Because if you're not living them, then they're not core. if that This is the thing. like Every organization wants to have, i don't know, teamwork, wants to have communication, wants have trust, wants to have hard work.
00:44:42
Speaker
you know everybody there there might be like 50 values that every company needs to have but a core value is something you keep even if it's painful even if it hurts right so like an example of that would be last year you know we were you know ah finishing the year like financially you know not as strong as where i'd want it to be and you know and from a profitability and from the top line p and l And um but at the same time, like we have a core of our number one core value is building meaningful relationships.
00:45:13
Speaker
And so we were making the decision as a small business to fly our entire leadership team of 10 people from like multiple continents, you know, to Austin for a week and to pay for all of the things that that entails. And it was a significant cost for a small business, you know.
00:45:29
Speaker
And so we were debating on, do we just go virtual this year? It'd save a whole lot of money. you know like um But we just look at this core value of building meaningful relationships. And we said, well, you keep it even if it hurts. And would this...
00:45:44
Speaker
would this draw our team together? you know Would this increase trust and respect and grow relationships? like Absolutely it would. you know And so it was just like this no-brainer answer that we would do that. So I would say an issue you know for a company would be one, do they do they really truly have values that have been uncovered? And that's the most important thing.
00:46:08
Speaker
I think if i could if I had just one job, honestly, like if I could switch careers, I would just go around and help companies find their core values. i I love that. I mean, and it and it makes a lot of sense, right? Because if you do have those those words on a wall, those those those values that they're not really being lived every day by by leadership or by the company, then it's simply inauthentic.
00:46:33
Speaker
It's an authentic and it's just an aspiration. So Pat Linceoni, you know, in his book, The Advantage talks all about this, but like, there are all kinds of core values. There's core value or values, not core.
00:46:45
Speaker
There's values that are table stakes, like customer service. You cannot claim customer service as core value. It's table stakes. Everyone expects customer service, unless you will drive a hundred miles to give someone a jacket, you know? or something right You can't claim it as a core value. there's there's There's also aspirational values, values that you say you want, but you're not like giving back, but you don't really live that value out.
00:47:06
Speaker
you know And then you have kind of whats what's called accidental values. These are values that you don't even realize that you have. but that are values. you know It might be that you look around and you say, no one is over the age of 25 and they're all white males.
00:47:20
Speaker
like Then you have a value that maybe is not such a great value of like opposite of diversity. right Um, you know, another value that's interesting is what's called hidden, hidden values. So this is different than accidental because like, it's a good thing, you know? So for example, one of our hidden values is autonomy.
00:47:38
Speaker
Like we, we didn't even name autonomy as a value because it is the freaking air we breathe. You know, like, like I started this company because of autonomy, because I was sick of having bosses.
00:47:49
Speaker
And I didn't want to have an office and I didn't want to, um ah you know, so offering people to work wherever they want. Hey, we just hired you and you're moving to Spain. That's fine. I don't care. You know, just get your get your work done.
00:48:01
Speaker
um You know, so like there are values that are so intrinsic to who you are, you don't even need to name them. you know um and they're so shared by everyone that they that they almost don't need to be called out and then you have your core values and so building meaningful relationships for us loving what you do uh getting better every day this is a really big one for me like i grow out of my skin if we're not changing and improving all the time so when going back to your original question and i know we're probably getting close to time but um is like the, um just this concept of like, do we see this transpiring? and Is it happening? Like, so if you, if you have a core value that you believe is a true core value that it's been uncovered and it's, let's say, better every day, like learning, improving, adapt, whatever.
00:48:47
Speaker
And you, you look around and you say, we're everything about us is status quo and has been for ages. then that's danger zone. Either all the good people have left you know or leadership has lost its fire.
Conclusion and Next Steps
00:49:02
Speaker
you know this is um I love that. I love that. um And this has been, first of all, I think that this So all of this so far, talking about Glide, talking about your experience, talking about values, um is going to set us up for part two of this conversation that's coming. Because some of the things that I desperately want to talk about is, great, we've learned about all these different kinds of values.
00:49:32
Speaker
Whose responsibility now is it to define them? And How do we course correct when we're moving in the wrong direction? And, you know, how often do we see people problems or issues, right, that maybe we perceive to be, you know, sales, ops, marketing, tech, that are actually people problem.
00:49:57
Speaker
I want to talk about tech. I want to talk about how we can use those kind of things to help people build our culture? Obviously, there's a lot of data out there, right, that we can draw from ops to marketing, but also to HR and people. And are we measuring things that maybe aren't really giving us the information that we need, right? So how are we measuring or using this data, um you know, to make better people decisions and then give advice to ah to some leaders? So you've definitely set the stage for part two of our conversation. So I'm i'm grateful for today.
00:50:37
Speaker
um You know, this by itself has given, i think, a lot of... ah a lot of good meat to chew on um for anybody listening. But I think the next part of the conversation is really going to be about putting all this stuff into action. How does that sound?
00:50:51
Speaker
I think it's fantastic and it's it's necessary. it's necessary you know i mean, it's it's great to kind of wax philosophical, right? you know And talk about the platitudes of you know values aren't created, they're uncovered, great. Okay, how do I do that? you know And I absolutely 110% have all kinds of great things that I could share you know about the painful journey that we've gone on to find these things the hard way so that someone else can maybe have less pain and suffering than we did.
00:51:19
Speaker
um The tools that we use, the tools that we tried and didn't like, the tools that we've been using for years that are providing a lot of value for what we do. Happy to share anything and everything. cool you know So yeah, absolutely. We look forward to a follow-up conversation.
00:51:33
Speaker
Awesome. Well, appreciate you joining us today, Travis. this was ah This was awesome. For everyone watching or listening, thanks for joining Travis and me for today's episode of Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build.
00:51:46
Speaker
Don't forget to subscribe, like, share this fireside chat. While you're at it, be sure to check us out at mustardhub.com to see how we can help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge.
00:51:59
Speaker
Until part two, we'll see you then. Thank you.