Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S3/Ep 11: Transgender Voice Training for Youth- Everything Parents and Teens Need to Know
0 Plays2 seconds ago
For transgender and nonbinary youth, voice can be one of the most challenging parts of their identity journey. While hormones and surgery receive attention, voice often remains overlooked—yet it profoundly impacts safety, confidence, and how young people move through the world.
Nicole Gress, speech-language pathologist and founder of Undead Voice, has supported 100,000+ voices in 20+ countries with the first scalable, evidence-based trans voice training program.
She shares why voice matters for gender identity, barriers preventing access to care, myths about voice training (it's not just pitch, hormones don't automatically change voice), practical first steps for youth and parents, and the emotional journey of finding your authentic voice.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Community
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to season three of the Guardians of Hope podcast. We are a community of parents, educators, health, legal, and tech experts dedicated to positively impacting children's lives. The thoughts and opinions of my guests are not my own. This is a platform for sharing. Welcome everyone.
Voice Challenges in Transgender Youth
00:00:15
Speaker
For many transgender and non-binary young people, voice can be one of the most challenging and vulnerable parts of their identity journey. While medical transition options like hormones and surgery receive significant attention, voice often remains an overlooked piece of gender affirmation that profoundly impacts how young people experience themselves and move through the world.
Meet Nicole Gress and Undead Voice
00:00:41
Speaker
Today, we're joined by Nicole Gress, a speech language pathologist and gender fluid founder of Undead Voice, the first scalable evidence-based transgender voice training program that has supported over 100,000 voices across more than 20 countries. Nicole, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.
00:01:03
Speaker
of course. Yeah, happy to be here. Why don't we start by talking a little bit about your background and your experience? Okay. um Like you mentioned, my name is Nicole Gress. I use she and they pronouns and I am the founder of Undead Voice. So background wise, I'm a speech language pathologist and I've been doing trans voice work for about 12 years now. I started off in more private practice and clinical settings, more of like your traditional healthcare approach. and then founded Undead Voice about six years ago. um Other than that, I'm ah from the Midwest, born and raised, well, raised in like the Southern Illinois area, and then moved to California for graduate school, I don't even know, 13, 14 years ago, and live in the San Francisco Bay Area now.
00:01:50
Speaker
Excellent. Well, I'm so happy you're so we can talk about this topic.
Emotional Impact of Voice Dysphoria
00:01:55
Speaker
And i want to start with why voice matters so much for transgender and non-binary youth. I'd like you to help us understand what the emotional and social impact is when someone's voice doesn't align with their gender identity.
00:02:11
Speaker
Yeah. um I mean, a lot of us, I would imagine, remember adolescence or being teenagers and what that feels like. It's already pretty high stakes, right? It's a place a time where we're struggling to feel seen or understood or like we really belong. And for trans and non-binary youth specifically, it also ah carries, it's the time that we go through natal or adolescent puberty. And part of that change is the voice. and The voice can shift during that period in ways that don't align with somebody's identity and don't express who they truly are. And when that happens, that mismatch can start to erode your self-image, your mood, your self-confidence. It impacts mental health. Kids often protect themselves when that happens by going quiet. That can look like fewer introductions, fewer answers in class, fewer questions.
00:03:08
Speaker
Chances to be heard with friends, social, mental health
Ash's Journey with Undead Voice
00:03:12
Speaker
impacts. And that cost tends to really show itself and like just missed connection and the sense that being seen really requires being silent, which is not a message that we want to hear. um One of my first clients actually when I started Undead Voice is a young girl named Ash from New York. She was 16 when we connected and her parents reached out because at the time where um we were connecting, they hadn't heard her actual speaking voice in two years. um And when she started undergoing testosterone-based puberty and her voice started to change and deepen, it caused immense dysphoria, specifically voice dysphoria, which is a really specific type of dysphoria. It's this emotional and psychological discomfort that comes from having a voice that doesn't align with one's gender identity. and About 85 percent of our community experience that. in Ash previously was extremely active, outgoing, vivid. and In her words, she described that her world was shattered and that she felt like she was shrinking when her voice started changing. Wow. um
00:04:25
Speaker
Yeah, at that time, she when I met her, she was only comfortable speaking verbally with her little sister, her therapist, and then me, of course. But for everyone else, all of her family, all of her friends, teachers, she would only text or write. And when we met, she was really at the point where teachers were starting to note how this was impacting her academically. And her friends were struggling to really understand this for at first sudden change that had just gone on for so long. um
00:04:56
Speaker
And she was thinking about applying for colleges and she was really worried about how she would do socially in that setting if she didn't start feeling more comfortable using her voice. And I mean, her parents were really struggling as well because they had tried everything that, you know, um they were super affirming and supportive and they had taken her to, she had gender affirming care available to her, but her doctors had given her referrals to speech therapists. She had done voice therapy before. And those approaches just weren't working for her. She didn't find the exercises extremely helpful. And so our work together, we took a completely different approach. And so we focused on teaching Ash how to control her actual vocal instrument to develop a sound that was more affirming and it felt like her. ah
00:05:47
Speaker
This approach the one that we use at Undead Voice. We call it like a physical only approach and it teaches somebody to change the size and the shape of their actual vocal mechanism, the instrument that they used to speak, to mimic what that instrument would have looked like if they hadn't undergone a puberty that was influenced by hormones that change that voice in ways that aren't affirming for them. And so for Ash specifically, that meant um manipulating her voice so that the effects of testosterone were reversed in a sense. So essentially, like whenever somebody undergoes a testosterone-based puberty, the vocal tract, the tube through which you speak grows longer and wider, and the vocal folds get bigger and thicker. And so we taught her to shorten and narrow her vocal tract and then to kind of thin out and take um then not those vocal folds so that her pitch would raise and her voice would just sound lighter and remove the bass. And so she could move from one voice to the other. this isn't like we're physically permanently shifting her voice, but it allowed her to um change her voice in a way that was affirming. And then most importantly, maintain that in a sustainable way that she now uses for the rest of her life without ever having to think about her voice again.
00:07:03
Speaker
um So it took about six months, but she fell in love with her voice and she just graduated UCLA.
Access and Solutions for Voice Training
00:07:08
Speaker
So amazing it's kind of full circle in that way. Yeah, thank you for sharing Ash's example with us. your part Now, i want to know a little bit more about your organization. So you you founded Undead Voice to address a significant gap in gender affirming care, which you just talked about.
00:07:27
Speaker
um But I want to ask you what the barriers are from preventing trans and non-binary youth from from accessing quality voice training that you just went into real detail talking about. um How do you make this care scalable and accessible in ways that traditional speech therapy just can't you know do?
00:07:51
Speaker
That's a really great question. I tried to make it work through traditional healthcare care as a speech pathologist for about the first four years of my career. And there's just... um A lot of the methods that we were taught as speech language pathologists, well, they were not created to shift the gender perception of a voice, though that is what we are taught to use them for. That's kind of the only um techniques that we have available to us. They were created to help people who had a vocal injury rehabilitate that voice. and Because they weren't created with the specific purpose of shifting gender perception of the voice, they're not based on research of how society codes gender in the voice. So if we unpack that, that means um whenever you hear somebody speak, your brain is unconsciously automatically categorizing that voice into something you're familiar with. Now, the parts of the voice that control that categorization, there wasn't a lot of there wasn't any research done on which aspects of the voice should be shifted. And so um speech pathologists typically rely on and overemphasize things like pitch or intonation, which are aspects of shifting the gender perception of the voice, but they are nowhere near the most important. And so I started Undead Voice to have the freedom to move outside of those techniques and
00:09:16
Speaker
create curriculum and exercises that were actually based on the research that showed how society codes gender in the voice, which looked like just recreating the system from the ground up. So really re-imagining, you know, what are the, what is the approach that we take, which I did just cover a little bit in terms of that physical only approach, but then also, and most importantly, taking it out of a medical setting. So right now, um ah Trans youth's journey to find voice training through traditional healthcare care looks like going to a doctor, getting a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, getting a referral to a speech pathologist who is specialized in trans voice therapy. And then in reality, you know, well, what we assume is that then you just find the person who takes your insurance that has availability, has a specialty, and you get in for your first appointment. The reality is the amount of providers who are skilled and feel comfortable and available for that work
00:10:16
Speaker
doesn't even scratch the surface of the need. And so the average wait list in the United States is about two to three years to find that person. And then once you get into that service, it can still take a really long time to transition the voice because the traditional healthcare care model of like a weekly lesson isn't, it isn't,
00:10:38
Speaker
enough to really meet the needs of somebody trying to change as intrinsic of a habit as the way that they sound right um that model is just a little bit outdated. doesn't meeting the needs of our community. And it would be like asking somebody to learn Spanish, but they only have a lesson once a week for 30 minutes. It would take them years. And it does take years. It takes an average of one and a half to three years of weekly lessons in order to transition the voice, if at all, through traditional medical healthcare settings. And that's assuming um that your insurance will cover it for that long. And many insurance companies don't. And
00:11:17
Speaker
We know now there's you know over 25 states in the United States that have banned gender-affirming care for trans youth. So even getting it through that avenue is just not attainable.
Misconceptions About Voice Training
00:11:30
Speaker
Undead Voice was founded specifically to be a demedicalized, non-therapy, non-healthcare approach to voice training. What that looks like is we are coaching, we are not therapy. And that allows us to um support and talk to the members of our program every single day, give them support when they actually need it when they're practicing. And most importantly, move this work virtually and online and give give it back to the community.
00:12:01
Speaker
meaning our our program is completely community-based. And so one of the biggest struggles somebody faces when transitioning their voice is accountability, motivation, and support. And having a community and being surrounded by people who are have the same lived experience and are going through the same journey is the the number one motivator to keep people ah with that forward progress and help combat the dysphoria that comes up when you start using your voice. Mm-hmm.
00:12:31
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that. And I know you may have covered this a little bit, but there are a lot of myths and misconceptions about um transgender voice training, that hormones will automatically change your voice as you as they age or surgery.
00:12:50
Speaker
um might be the only option. um Why don't we break down some of these myths and explain why evidence um or what evidence-based voice training actually looks like? You did touch upon that, but let's talk about the myths. Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. so You know, a lot of the transition related wants or needs of trans and gender diverse people ah tend to be couched in this idea that there's a medical intervention for it. um Voice is one of those very unique areas where you don't actually have to um have impact from hormones or surgery, and you can start to explore change in the voice at a really
00:13:33
Speaker
ah and in a non-invasive, non-threatening, um ah non-committal way that is approachable for people of all ages. So if we think about the voice and how it develops, we know that puberty starts to shift the voice because it's changing the size and shape of the muscles and the bones and the ligaments in your entire body. um But that happens around the age of puberty. Now that can be anywhere from like 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. But what we find actually is that the voice starts to shift much earlier than that. So if you look at young children, the sound of the voice is pretty indistinguishable up until the age of six.
00:14:14
Speaker
And at age six, the sound of the voice starts to shift and it starts to be impacted. And that's not happening from puberty or physical changes to the voice. It's happening from influences on how we are societally or culturally impacting those children. So there's three main things that influence the voice.
00:14:34
Speaker
It's the physical size and shape. It's also the environment and the culture that somebody is raised in. and so At the age of six, we start to hear children's children's voices shift and categorize, and that's because of how they're being socialized. and That means that the dysphoria that comes in can happen much younger. Often with voice, gender-affirming care providers will say, oh, that's something that they can address in adulthood. through either hormones or surgery. But the truth is that a lot of the dysphoria that is that our adult members um are are grappling with, they identified having started at a very young age. And so voice is one of those really low impact, easy ways that you can reduce a lot of dysphoria very early on to help youth and trans or transgender diverse youth feel comfortable way before medical intervention will start being an option or an approach that they're taking.
00:15:29
Speaker
Okay.
Parental Support for Transgender Youth
00:15:31
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that. And that, you know, that's a lot of detail. And I i feel like for my parent audience that are that are watching, I think um the next question will probably help them when it comes to supporting this process, right?
00:15:47
Speaker
So what do you um suggest would be some practical first steps to get, you know, started? Yeah, if if you've already identified with your your child or your loved one that voice is something that they are interested in exploring,
00:16:05
Speaker
um Finding a resource that is community-based. So I can talk about a little bit about the way in which we help parents and caregivers ah navigate this specifically through our resources.
00:16:17
Speaker
A really easy approachable first step isn't going to look like taking them um or signing them up for like a years-long process. We want to kind of...
00:16:27
Speaker
let them gently step into voice work and see if you know that if it's something they can keep up with that they're interested in and if it's having a positive impact and with that in mind we took we have like a full voice training program it's a virtual platform called undead voice lab that is a lifetime membership program it has courses coaching community support but it's also a big commitment and um We recognize, I would say about a year and a half ago, kind of what might be coming with rapidly reducing a restricted access to gender-affirming care for youth across our country and took the most impactful parts of that larger program's curriculum and made a youth-specific three-week free intro program called Jumpstart, which we ran 20 times last year, and were running 60 times this year. And so that program is a really, really great first step. It is basically an introduction to what does what do what can be accomplished through voice training, what kind of goals can you set for yourself, how do you start exploring voice in a healthy way that gives you a great foundation for the rest of your journey so that you're not doing anything that's causing lasting damage.
00:17:37
Speaker
What are the areas of voice that you even focus on? What are some beginner exercises? And those exercises are a great opportunity for somebody to start to hear a shift in their voice and determine whether it's affirming and whether voice training is something they want to take more seriously or move into and more and with more
Accessing Resources and Support
00:17:55
Speaker
intention. So that program that we have is called Jumpstart and it's open for enrollment all year and it's completely free. And the best part about it is that it is a community program. So they are surrounded by other trans and gender diverse youth and adults to be able to see what that um what it feels like to connect with other people who have the same experience, who are also undergoing or you know having voice dysphoria and undergoing voice transition. Um, so very strongly encourage you to check that out. We also have parent and caregiver education courses or sorry, workshops that we do, which are also completely free.
00:18:33
Speaker
We partner with different organizations like PFLAG. We host them ourselves as well. And, um, you can always reach out for more information about those because. This is an area that is often difficult to navigate. Providers don't have a lot of information for, and, um, parents can feel really alone in figuring out what are the next best steps.
00:18:53
Speaker
Yeah. Well, Nicole, thank you for helping me raise awareness about this, about voice and how important it is to the community. um Where can parents find you online?
00:19:06
Speaker
Yeah. um So our website's undeadvoice.com and that free program I mentioned is undeadvoice.com slash join jumpstart. And if you have any questions, you can reach out to me directly. You can, my email is Nicole at undeadvoice.com. So any questions that you might have, I'm happy to help navigate. ah We really appreciate whenever parents and caregivers reach out because ah you really are the the the gatekeepers in the first line of defense and the strong, most fierce advocates for your children. And the most um you know impact that we can have is the younger we start to support these individuals, the the better outcomes we see um across the board.
00:19:48
Speaker
Absolutely. Nicole, thank you so much again. Yeah, of course. Thank you.