Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to season three of the guardians of hope podcast. We are a community of parents, educators, health, legal, and tech experts dedicated to positively impacting children's lives.
Speaker: The thoughts and opinions of my guests are not my own. This is a platform for sharing. Welcome everyone. One in eight children worldwide will experience sexual abuse before the age of 18.
Speaker: In the United States, one in four girls and one in six boys will be sexually abused before reaching adulthood. These aren't just statistics. These are millions of survivors living among us, many of them walking through a life emotionally numb, disconnected from themselves and others because numbness became the only way to survive.
Speaker: Emotional numbness is a coping mechanism. The brain's attempt to protect itself from unbearable pain. Today, we're joined by Chris Yadin, Managing Director of Supriya, a global nonprofit dedicated to healing and preventing childhood sexual abuse.
Speaker: Chris understands firsthand how trauma rewires the brain, how silence perpetuates suffering, and why healing can never be a solitary journey.
Speaker: Chris, thanks so much for joining me today. Hey, it's so good to be with you, Cynthia. Thanks for having me Sure. Why don't we start with your personal journey? Can you share ah what brought you to this work?
Speaker: Yeah, there there were really a couple of things that converged that brought me to this work. First, in my early adult years, I learned about loved ones of mine, family members who had experienced child sexual abuse. And that was horrific for me to learn about and the injustice associated with it. And even though I'm not a survivor of child sexual abuse myself, I did experience some some challenges and harm growing up. And that's where the emotional numbing came in. So to kind of give you the background of that story, I grew up next to my grandpa.
Speaker: And we had a really, really close relationship. He was ah a fruit farmer, had a had cherry orchard. I spent a lot of time with him on his tractor, a lot of time with him irrigating. I'd float these little boats down his ditch while he was irrigating. And I had that type of relationship where I felt safe and loved by him.
Speaker: So when I was 24 old, This was shortly after I had id married and my wife had been prompting me and prodding me that I may not be experiencing emotions and I didn't really know what she was talking about until I had a reawakening moment at my grandfather's funeral.
Speaker: So this man I loved, i was at his funeral and I was fully expecting to feel grief, to feel sadness, to cry. but as I stood there over his open casket, I felt empty inside.
Speaker: You know, he was the one who had died, but I was dead inside. And it was that moment that I reawakened to the fact that I might be emotionally numbing. Fast forward many years down the road, I had an opportunity to help start an organization that supported survivors of child sexual abuse. And I quickly learned that I shared something in common with survivors of sexual abuse, and that is emotional numbing. Emotional numbing is one of the most common symptoms survivors of child sexual abuse experience in order to deal with their trauma. So what was a deeply personal journey became a professional journey for me
Speaker: and Not only in me learning how to feel again over the last 25 years, but at this point, turning outward and helping others, in this case, survivors of child sexual abuse, learn how to feel again.
Speaker: That's so rewarding. Chris, thank you for sharing that experience. um And we're going to talk more about emotional numbness. And it's something that many survivors experience, but a lot few people understand. So can you help us understand what it actually feels like from the inside?
Speaker: Yeah, so the way I would describe it is is a spectrum. So if you can imagine a box of crayons and on one side you have the brightest of bright reds and on the other side you have the palest of reds, they're all red.
Speaker: but they're on a scale or a spectrum or a range. When we're numbing our emotions, it's like we've taken that bright red crayon and muted it to that pale red.
Speaker: The motion's still there. It's not completely absent, but it's just not alive inside of us. And unfortunately, a lot of times numbing happens so gradually we don't even realize that.
Speaker: how numb we are until we have a moment where we reawaken our emotions. But that's how I would describe it. I think it's a good analogy to give ah listeners a sense of what emotional numbing feels like on the inside.
Speaker: Understood. And one of the most challenging aspects of healing is breaking the silence. So i'm going to dive right in How do we create spaces where survivors can feel comfortable talking about childhood sexual abuse without being re-traumatized?
Speaker: Yeah. So when we're numbing our emotions, the thought of reawakening our emotions has a lot of fear associated with it. So the fear specifically for survivors of child sexual abuse is rooted in a few things. First, it's rooted in the shame and stigma that society has placed around the issue of child sexual abuse. The topic is very taboo for a lot of people. So when survivors start talking about it, they're often, often um,
Speaker: people respond to them in very awkward or negative ways. So that often causes us to push push that experience back down. Also, when we start dealing with our trauma, a lot of emotions start to reawaken and come back up. And we have a lot of fear that we're gonna lose control over our emotions. and And I experienced this myself in my own journey, that fear of reawakening really created moments where I would just shove things back down. So when it comes to how do we create environments that are safe without re-traumatizing,
Speaker: It's really rooted in those two problems. The solutions are rooted in the problems. We have to break down the shame and stigma. We do that by acknowledging the issue of child sexual abuse, talking about it openly. We call it embracing the awkward. Just acknowledge that when a topic is new to you, it can be awkward. it can feel awkward or uncomfortable. You just have to embrace it and get over that and embrace that awkwardness to make it a topic that eventually becomes more comfortable to talk about. That creates environments where survivors are like, hey, maybe I can bring this up.
Speaker: I found as I talk about child sexual abuse, I have friends, family members I've known for years finally feel comfortable talking to me about it. So I have to be proactive in breaking down that shame and stigma. on the fear of of uh of the emotions overcoming us or overwhelming us we have to create safe spaces for in survivors to experience triggers and learn to manage those triggers a lot of people are so afraid of re-traumatizing somebody that they try to create spaces free of triggers and and for unsafe spaces that's appropriate but for safe spaces what survivors actually need is they need to experience those triggers in a safe environment so that they can learn to cope with or manage
Speaker: those emotions as they surface without the fear of judgment from others. So it's not about eliminating those symptoms or eliminating triggers. It's about ah being intentional about which spaces we we we design for those experiences to surface, which is really core to the work we do at Supriya, our community programs. Survivors get triggered all the time, but they're in a safe environment to be able to process those triggers and learn tools to process those triggers. And that's the difference.
Speaker: here Okay. Now for loved ones, uh, like parents or partners or friends who want to serve, uh, support a survivor dealing with this emotional numbness, um, the coping mechanism, what should they understand when trying to support someone and what does meaningful support look like?
Speaker: Yeah, the first thing that that's important to understand ah are the signs of numbing. Like, what are the behaviors that we exhibit when we're numbing? And I'll just give you a few. There's a lot, but I'll give you a few.
Speaker: One, for example, is hyperproductivity. This is one that I dealt with a lot. I could get more done in a work day than most people. I was hyper productive, but I was using that hyper productivity so I didn't have to sit with my thoughts or emotions. So that's an example of one of the signs. Another example of a sign is extreme peace ah peacekeeping.
Speaker: Peacemaking, which is embracing conflict and and working through that conflict productively is healthy. Peacekeeping, where we avoid conflict at all costs, is very unhealthy, but a lot of us who numb are peacekeepers in order to avoid conflict. So um for for those are just two examples of many signs of numbing, and I'll use those to to to really address your question. As a loved one around someone who's experiencing emotional numbing due to child sexual abuse or some other trauma for that matter, i need to understand what the signs are and what my loved one what behaviors they're using to cope with that trauma.
Speaker: If I wanna create environments where they no longer have to rely on those avoidant behaviors. So hyper productivity is an example, as a loved one, I need to be able to create a space where it's safe for that survivor to sit in their emotions or sit with their thoughts without feeling they like they have to go do something or fix something or be engaged in something.
Speaker: Or in the case of peacekeeping, i have to create an environment where conflict can be addressed in a healthy way, where I can experience, where that survivor can experience the conflict of their emotions and not feel like they're going to be judged by it. So the more the more loved ones understand the signs of numbing, the more likely they are to create an environment where the survivor doesn't have to rely on those avoidant behaviors or those signs in order to cope with their experiences.
Speaker: And one follow-up question, what are some common mistakes or things to avoid as a loved one? Yeah, I mean, the most common mistakes is drilling a survivor with questions or taking away their control. So I'll use those two as the most common. So um when when someone discloses about their abuse or they're dealing with something that comes up as a result of their abuse, the last thing they need is to be interrogated.
Speaker: um Those questions often carry judgment or shame associated with them, even if unintended by the loved one. So instead of asking a ton of questions, it's a lot of active listening, followed by some open-ended questions that keeps control in the survivor's hand. Questions like,
Speaker: thanks for sharing that with me how can i best help or support those type of open-ended questions are much more valuable than trying to get into the details behind the abuse or what they experienced as a result of the abuse so keep control in their hands and and that's really that second principle is when when people are traumatized control is taken away from them and their nervous system is responding to that control being taken away And so when we as loved ones exert control over those who have experienced trauma, it it causes their nervous system to have a similar response to when they were abused. And that's where that re-traumatization can easily occur. So it's about keeping control in their hands. It's their journey. It's their path. You're there to support them, you know, as they need, as they want. This doesn't mean...
Speaker: There's no room for accountability or challenging a survivor. In fact, my wife was a huge benefit ah ah benefit for me in my own journey as she learned how to delicately balance keeping control in my hands, making sure I knew I was loved and supported, but also challenging some of the thinking patterns that I had that were unhealthy. So it's really nuanced. It is challenging. challenging It takes an in-depth, connected, deep relationship to do it successfully. But those are the components that matter.
Speaker: Okay. you for sharing those examples. And it's so interesting when you say that um the actual feeling is the numbing. You're numbing the feeling, but it manifests in so many other ways that no one...
Speaker: a lot of people wouldn't be able to connect that that behavior is actually numbing the behavior ah numbing the feeling. So um I just have one more question for you, Chris, and it's for listeners um who are survivors and still living in numbness or for those who love someone um that's numbing their feelings due to trauma. What is the most important thing you want them to know going forward in their healing journey?
Speaker: The journey to learn how to feel again is a journey that is fraught with challenges, but the results are worth it.
Speaker: And that's the most important thing that I would want to survive or anybody that's numbing their emotions to hear. The reality is we can live our entire life while numbing our emotions. We don't have to learn to feel again. We can get by.
Speaker: But we limit our full experience of what it means to be human, to fill the the range of of ah emotions we want, like joy and sadness or a grief and healing. ah To be able to fill that full spectrum in healthy ways is what makes us human and what really helps us feel alive. so I would just say to survivors, it is a choice.
Speaker: You get to choose if you're going to continue to numb and and get by with that as a coping mechanism. It will have a cost. It will have challenges that come with it, but it is your choice. But you can also choose choose how to fill again. And at Supriya, we have resources specifically designed to help you deal with emotional numbing. ah You can go to supriya.org. We're here. We believe you.
Speaker: We have resources that help, hope and healing are possible. And we want to to give you the tools that will help you be successful in that journey. Chris, thank you so much for bringing awareness to this topic. I feel like a lot of people deal with this and or numb emotions related to other things aside from sexual abuse. So it's it's more common than we think. So I appreciate you bringing awareness to this topic.
Speaker: Thanks, Cynthia. I love to talk about it. For anybody that wants to know more, go to supria.org. Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. My name's unique enough. It's easy to find. Substack. I talk a lot about emotional numbing. If this is a topic that catches your interest, I would love to to be on that journey with you.
Speaker: Perfect. Thanks so much, Chris.
