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170 Megan Carroll | Literary Agent
643 Plays1 year ago
Literary agent, Megan Carroll is back on the podcast to chat about everything happening in publishing, her list and what she's looking for in submissions.
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Transcript
Introduction and No Ads on Patreon
00:00:00
Speaker
To listen without ads, head over to patreon.com slash right and wrong.
00:00:04
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question.
00:00:07
Speaker
I love it.
00:00:07
Speaker
Because the writing is sort of everything, right?
00:00:09
Speaker
You can fix plot holes, but if the writer... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this.
00:00:15
Speaker
So it's kind of a gamble.
00:00:18
Speaker
Hello
Megan Carroll on Writing Across Genres
00:00:19
Speaker
and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
00:00:21
Speaker
On this episode, I'm joined by a returning guest, a literary agent who represents a range of writing from children's all the way up through YA and into adult.
00:00:32
Speaker
It's Megan Carroll.
00:00:33
Speaker
Welcome back.
00:00:34
Speaker
Thank you.
00:00:35
Speaker
Thanks for having me.
00:00:36
Speaker
Let's jump right in to tackle one of the big issues, the tough questions, one of the hottest topics.
00:00:43
Speaker
What does
What is Crossover in Literature?
00:00:44
Speaker
crossover mean?
00:00:47
Speaker
What does crossover mean?
00:00:49
Speaker
That's a great question.
00:00:51
Speaker
And I think the problem is that no one really knows the answer.
00:00:55
Speaker
That's what I'm gathering.
00:00:57
Speaker
So it used to be that...
00:01:00
Speaker
It's usually YA fantasy that was predominantly crossover.
00:01:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:07
Speaker
And I think it used to just be that people were realizing that YA was read by adults and they wanted to kind of tap into that and not alienate those readers and buyers by leaning further into the adult themes to kind of capture even more of that readership.
00:01:25
Speaker
And so it sort of crosses over into adult in that sense.
00:01:32
Speaker
But what it does do is to sort of muddy the waters of YA and adult in a way that is quite difficult for particularly querying authors.
00:01:45
Speaker
but also kind of down to sort of booksellers.
00:01:49
Speaker
There's no crossover section of the bookshop.
00:01:53
Speaker
There's YA and then there's adult.
00:01:55
Speaker
So it's a sort of difficult situation of placement and where you put those types of books and who they're exactly for as well.
00:02:05
Speaker
All of these questions are quite difficult elements of it.
00:02:09
Speaker
So by that description, and as someone who reads a lot of fantasy, I'm thinking of things like The Name of the Wind or like a lot of Brandon Sanders and stuff where there are teenage protagonists, but it's like, I wouldn't call it YA, but at the same time, I don't know if I would call it like, but it would be suitable for YA, but it's also kind of adult.
00:02:29
Speaker
That's kind of the area you're talking about.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of has that, it has the essence of YA, the world building or the characters, as you say, you know, the ethos and the feeling of YA, but it sort of creeps into those more adult themes.
00:02:44
Speaker
And sometimes that can be through, you know, what the level of danger that happens, the level of like peril and issue that they face, or it can be on a romance level too.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:58
Speaker
Right.
00:02:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:59
Speaker
So why is it now?
00:03:01
Speaker
Why is it, it sounds like it used to be a kind of more niche thing sort of tucked away and there was just a few books that kind of fell into this category.
00:03:07
Speaker
Why is it now all of a sudden everything that everyone's talking about all the time?
00:03:13
Speaker
I think it's because of book talk.
00:03:15
Speaker
Predominantly.
00:03:16
Speaker
Predominantly it's because of book talk.
00:03:18
Speaker
I mean, YA readers were always a mixture of adults and
00:03:23
Speaker
young adults and teens.
00:03:25
Speaker
That's always been the case.
00:03:26
Speaker
I mean, that's not, the people that read it haven't really changed.
00:03:29
Speaker
It's just that now it's a bit more obvious.
00:03:33
Speaker
Right.
00:03:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:34
Speaker
Now it's a bit more, yeah, a bit more obvious that adult readers are there and they're a huge portion of that market.
00:03:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:43
Speaker
So
Exploring New Adult Genre
00:03:44
Speaker
is it the same thing as new adult?
00:03:47
Speaker
No, it's not.
00:03:51
Speaker
So new adult is a really new, a new term.
00:03:54
Speaker
Um, and it's mostly come from the States.
00:03:59
Speaker
Right.
00:03:59
Speaker
And so not, not as used, not used nearly as frequently in the UK as it is over there.
00:04:05
Speaker
Um, and it used to predominantly mean that kind of space for the protagonist that was in between being an adult and being a teenager.
00:04:12
Speaker
So the protagonists themselves are kind of 18 to early twenties.
00:04:16
Speaker
Right.
00:04:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:17
Speaker
It's that kind of university.
00:04:19
Speaker
They're just kind of breaking out into the adult world kind of area.
00:04:23
Speaker
So all of the topics tended to be quite focused on going to university, you know, first job, first house, first relationship, all of those types of milestones.
00:04:34
Speaker
But with...
00:04:36
Speaker
a higher kind of spice level, if it's a romance, a higher kind of danger level, if it's fantasy.
00:04:42
Speaker
I mean, new adult doesn't really encroach into lots of genres.
00:04:45
Speaker
It tends to be, at least from what I see, it tends to just be romance or fantasy, romantic.
00:04:52
Speaker
It's, you know, there's not new adult crime, for example, or I don't, I haven't seen any if there is.
00:04:57
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Yeah.
00:04:58
Speaker
Because a lot of crime as a genre
00:05:02
Speaker
leans towards having a sort of grizzled detective or like a world-weary character as your kind of protagonist who's solving the crimes.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker
Nobody wants to read like a new, a brand new detective.
00:05:15
Speaker
Maybe they do actually.
00:05:16
Speaker
Maybe that would be adding something new to the genre.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:22
Speaker
They'd have to have something, but if you do that, then obviously you have to have something different about like, they'd have to be a super genius or something, or have some other quirk that kind of set them aside from some other young detective.
00:05:34
Speaker
And I think because of the readership of that genre, it would never need to be new adult anyway.
00:05:38
Speaker
It would just be a young protagonist.
00:05:40
Speaker
That's the kind of thing that's the real problem with crossover new adult, adult, and where to put your book.
00:05:45
Speaker
If you're a querying author or if you're an agent and you're sending something out is...
Challenges in Book Categorization
00:05:50
Speaker
There's so many different factors can mean so many different things.
00:05:52
Speaker
You know, you can have an adult book with a young protagonist.
00:05:55
Speaker
That's obviously true.
00:05:56
Speaker
There's loads of examples of that, but it's very rare to have a teen or a YA book with only adult protagonists.
00:06:03
Speaker
That wouldn't work.
00:06:05
Speaker
Right.
00:06:06
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:06
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:07
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:06:07
Speaker
So you kind of have to figure out within the parameters of the book where, you know, what is more important, what element is more important and where it has to sit because of those things.
00:06:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:19
Speaker
Is that something that, obviously this is now something that publishers are asking for quite a lot, is when you have an author and you're looking to take something on submission, start sending it to editors, do you guys sit down and say, right, we need to figure out exactly where this is going, how we're pitching it, and then we're going to draw out, say...
00:06:40
Speaker
we want this to be YA, so we're actually going to emphasize more of the YA stuff and dial back on anything that could make it lean into crossover or vice versa.
00:06:46
Speaker
It's like, oh, we want this to be in crossover, so we're going to pull out more of these elements to make it more fit into that space.
00:06:53
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:06:54
Speaker
That's definitely a conversation that you have because you'll have from YA crossover to new adult, you'll have different, you know, word length parameters.
00:07:01
Speaker
You'll have different things that you can and cannot do within those age ranges.
00:07:07
Speaker
And also there's,
00:07:09
Speaker
A case for, you know, if it's a series and that series wants to mature and develop, you might think, okay, maybe this would be a better place to be on a crossover list because the second it starts to get more mature, it's going to be a whole different readership, you know, like.
00:07:25
Speaker
Sarah J. Maas back in the day was published as YA, but you could never publish that now.
00:07:31
Speaker
And, you know, the way that her books have matured in themes and in content has meant that the YA, particularly in foreign territories, the YA publishers that bought those books at the beginning now can't publish them on their YA lists.
00:07:47
Speaker
So you kind of have to think long-term about where you want that book to go, where that author wants that series to go.
00:07:54
Speaker
Um, but yeah, YA you'll have to, you know, you'll have to strategically age down.
00:07:58
Speaker
You'll have to think about how long is it?
00:08:00
Speaker
Um, is it working for just the UK and the US YA market, or do we also want it to work for, you know, the YA markets in translation, you know, is that concern?
00:08:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:12
Speaker
And there's, and speaking of Sarah J. Mass, it's, I think there's a lot of
00:08:18
Speaker
from what I've seen, there seems to be a lot of connection with these two genres and spice.
00:08:24
Speaker
Indeed.
00:08:25
Speaker
Explicit romantic scenes.
00:08:27
Speaker
But from what your description here, it doesn't sound like that's, it has to be there.
00:08:34
Speaker
Like it's something that's often there and it's become very popular.
00:08:36
Speaker
I think a lot of the book talk stuff is very romantically explicit, let's say.
00:08:43
Speaker
But from your kind of descriptions, it's actually not
00:08:48
Speaker
necessarily a core part of that.
00:08:50
Speaker
Um, they're not really genres, but that kind of age range.
00:08:55
Speaker
No, not necessarily.
00:08:56
Speaker
I mean, the new adult stuff tends to be steamy.
00:08:59
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:00
Speaker
It always tends to lean that way.
00:09:03
Speaker
Um, and it, that might change.
00:09:04
Speaker
Um, but it, it, it's often that, and I mean, the thing that's happening is that those are the books that are popular.
00:09:10
Speaker
That's what the readers at the moment are wanting.
00:09:12
Speaker
They're wanting steamy.
00:09:13
Speaker
So publishers are leaning into that and ensuring that that's what they're delivering.
00:09:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:19
Speaker
So it's with YA, obviously no steam.
00:09:22
Speaker
You can't be tall, steamy in YA because that would be insane.
00:09:25
Speaker
You're marketing a book for teenagers.
00:09:29
Speaker
But the problem with BookTok, with this kind of mess of YA crossover new adult is that
00:09:35
Speaker
What is becoming difficult for the buyers, you know, parents, but also actual teenagers buying their YA books is that they're all kind of being published in the same way.
00:09:46
Speaker
And so it's really hard to differentiate between what is an appropriate book and what's a really inappropriate book for that reader.
00:09:53
Speaker
um you know sarah jay mass's huge book talk sensation you know but those books came out ages ago and but people that are young are seeing those books and wanting to read them themselves and obviously they're incredibly inappropriate for some on some people on the younger end of that ya spectrum yeah um but they're being published in the same way as like
00:10:16
Speaker
any other way fantasy or any other crossover fantasy.
00:10:18
Speaker
So it's hard when you're out of the industry to differentiate between what do I want my teenager to read and what do I not want them to read?
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:29
Speaker
Because I guess YA, would you say YA kind of broadly covers a sort of from like 14 to 18 movie?
00:10:37
Speaker
Yeah, which, I mean, has its own problems because 14-year-olds and 18-year-olds are often very different.
00:10:44
Speaker
But yeah, if you're thinking middle grade is covering kind of 8 to 12, maybe up to 13, you've kind of got that teen, which some publishers, you know, consciously publish into, some don't, which is kind of 12 to 14, let's say.
00:11:00
Speaker
And then YA is, yeah, above that, 14 or 15 above.
00:11:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:06
Speaker
So you've got a lot of different parameters within that age group, a lot of different levels of what is and isn't appropriate for a 15 year old, a 14 year old, and then, you know, the top end, 18, 19.
00:11:19
Speaker
It's hard to publish one book that suits all of those readers.
00:11:23
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:11:24
Speaker
And now, especially with these kind of lines being blurred between YA through to adult, it's, I guess, even harder.
00:11:30
Speaker
Exactly.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah, it is.
00:11:32
Speaker
Interesting.
Opportunities in Crossover Genres
00:11:33
Speaker
I had, um, I had Chloe Seger on recently and was chatting with her about this same, uh, thing.
00:11:40
Speaker
And I thought it was an interesting question from, from like a agent's point of view is that she is coming at it from a, she, you know, YA is the top of what she represents.
00:11:49
Speaker
She represents children's books.
00:11:50
Speaker
So she's been kind of excited about it because it's, it's opening up a whole range of editors and publishers who, um,
00:11:57
Speaker
had previously not been accessible to her because they didn't take YA, as in they just took adult, but they've now kind of opened up to crossover and new adult stuff.
00:12:07
Speaker
As someone who represents adult and YA stuff, have you found that there's sort of new openings available to you, new opportunities?
00:12:17
Speaker
It definitely has opened the pool of editors that you can send, you know, that top end YA crossover to, and that's no bad thing.
00:12:25
Speaker
But it is, once you open that porn, you're sending it to adult publishers, you are kind of pushing the book in one way.
00:12:33
Speaker
And that is a choice that you're making, you and the author.
00:12:36
Speaker
The thing with adult publishers as well is that they probably have more money.
00:12:41
Speaker
You know, there's going to be higher advances from those places, potentially, you know, not always.
00:12:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:46
Speaker
And I think more opportunities for the authors in terms of more editors being able to look at their book is, has got to be a positive.
00:12:53
Speaker
It's just ensuring that, you know, if an author comes to me really wanting to write YA and that be their passion, you know, you don't want them to alienate, you know, actual YA readers by sort of pushing themselves too far the other way.
00:13:09
Speaker
Because that's the new hot thing that's happening.
00:13:12
Speaker
But yeah, I think there are a lot of positives to editors looking at YA and considering that and making that part of their list.
00:13:19
Speaker
And it makes, you know, hopefully all the publishers a little bit more competitive in terms of what they're needing to do now to acquire the best YA that's coming through.
00:13:29
Speaker
For me, obviously, I'm seeing those editors anyway.
00:13:33
Speaker
So it's not been that it's opening up loads of different editors I've not been in touch with, but it's widening the pool of places I can submit to, which is good.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:45
Speaker
So as in on an individual level for like per author, per kind of manuscript that you're looking to put out, there's now more kind of spaces that you could send it to.
00:13:53
Speaker
There's more.
00:13:54
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:13:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:56
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:13:57
Speaker
But what I think you get into when you're doing that is that an adult publisher might be able to put more money down and, um,
00:14:05
Speaker
Some children's publishers won't be able to compete, but then you have to decide, okay, whose hands would this book be best published in?
00:14:14
Speaker
Who's going to do it in the best way?
00:14:16
Speaker
But those conversations that you always have when you're sending out a book and you're always thinking, okay, whose hands are the best hands for this?
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:23
Speaker
And, and I imagine it's a lot to do with the brand that the author wants to set up because the, you know, the author looking ahead to their careers, if you commit to writing something that is that you at one point maybe had some YA influence and now you've signed with an adult publisher and you're kind of, everything will age slightly up.
00:14:43
Speaker
The editor will probably age things up a bit.
00:14:45
Speaker
that's, you're probably then going to be expected to follow that with sequels or whatever the next book will be also in that same kind of age range.
00:14:54
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:56
Speaker
Interesting.
00:14:57
Speaker
Let's talk a bit about you, focus more on that.
00:15:00
Speaker
You joined Watson Little in 2014, 10 years ago, decade.
00:15:04
Speaker
Yep.
00:15:04
Speaker
Nearly 10 years ago.
00:15:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:09
Speaker
Over that time, have you noticed any sort of big shifts or changes to do with being an agent or publishing as a whole?
00:15:21
Speaker
The shifts in being an agent, I think we are...
00:15:25
Speaker
We're across much more now.
00:15:27
Speaker
I think the scope of what you represent is much wider.
00:15:32
Speaker
You know, we have authors that do podcasts.
00:15:34
Speaker
We have people that are, you know, talking heads on TV.
00:15:38
Speaker
We have people that do, you know, loads of speaking events through the year.
00:15:43
Speaker
And that's a huge part of their brand.
00:15:46
Speaker
it's not just about here's the book, sell the book.
00:15:50
Speaker
It's much more kind of full service what we do now and what, which I think is fun and exciting.
00:15:55
Speaker
You know, you're getting to sort of dip your toe into lots of other elements of the business as a whole.
00:16:01
Speaker
But yeah, it feels much more expansive than it did when I started.
00:16:05
Speaker
And it was, I mean, it was changing before then, but it feels, you know, there's so many different elements of what you can help your clients with now.
00:16:15
Speaker
It feels wide.
00:16:17
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:16:18
Speaker
So you're almost sort of the term literary agent, you're sort of almost sort of changing literary in that you are becoming more, like you say, full service agent.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:16:30
Speaker
For some, and there are sort of, there are still situations where, you know, clients have a speaking talent manager or whatever it is, but there are often times where we're dealing with things that are not books.
00:16:43
Speaker
Um, but that's quite exciting.
00:16:45
Speaker
I've always liked that element of things changing.
00:16:49
Speaker
I guess it's true also of authors because nowadays if you're an author, there's a lot of promotion and marketing which rests on your shoulders.
00:16:58
Speaker
And then authors also will do a lot of things outside of just writing the books to sort of promote their books, but also promote other sides of them, promote them as an author, as a brand, I guess.
00:17:11
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:17:12
Speaker
It's, it has really changed.
00:17:13
Speaker
You know, it's, it used to be, and you, and you still can do this.
00:17:16
Speaker
It used to be that you could just have your book come out and, you know, that was it.
00:17:19
Speaker
You kind of could disappear if you, if you so wanted to.
00:17:22
Speaker
Um, but there are people that don't do that and they kind of want to be very present and very online and they'll, you know, be the guests on podcasts or they'll,
00:17:31
Speaker
do their own or they'll want to do events in schools if they're children's author or they'll want to do festivals and there is a degree of that being sorted out by
00:17:44
Speaker
publishers or by other agencies or other management, but we also are finding that we're doing that here as well more often than not.
00:17:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:55
Speaker
That's so cool.
00:17:56
Speaker
Um, yeah.
00:17:57
Speaker
Cause I guess
Impact of AI on Publishing
00:17:58
Speaker
it makes, if you can get, if you as a, as an author or just any creator, I guess, generally, if you can have one agent that covers all of the facets of what you want to do creatively, it's better than having multiple agents.
00:18:09
Speaker
Then you're just adding more meetings and conversations to the whole mixture.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:18:13
Speaker
Streamlines the whole thing, doesn't it?
00:18:15
Speaker
Exactly.
00:18:16
Speaker
Perfect.
00:18:17
Speaker
What's a little taking over the world.
00:18:20
Speaker
And so on from that, looking ahead, are there any kind of things which are sort of coming in to manifest now?
00:18:29
Speaker
Any kind of predictions or directions the industry looks like it's heading?
00:18:33
Speaker
I'm not sure.
00:18:34
Speaker
I mean, the, the AI stuff is, is there sort of lingering in the shadows in a way that is hard to predict what it will be.
00:18:42
Speaker
Less and less in the shadows.
00:18:44
Speaker
And it's interesting.
00:18:47
Speaker
It's going to be interesting to see how that changes, um, but particularly illustrators, um, but also authors and, you know, maybe celebrity talent.
00:18:56
Speaker
I've heard translation has already been largely affected by it.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:19:03
Speaker
Definitely.
00:19:04
Speaker
I mean, I've had conversations with our rights director, Rachel, here about that kind of thing.
00:19:10
Speaker
But yeah, it's, and on the one hand, you think there's an element of, you know, saving time, being more efficient.
00:19:15
Speaker
All of those things seem exciting, but they seem quite far away from that.
00:19:20
Speaker
what we're doing, which is, you know, books, writing books, hopefully that people have written themselves.
00:19:28
Speaker
Fingers crossed.
00:19:29
Speaker
Fingers crossed.
00:19:30
Speaker
But it's hard to predict what will happen with that.
00:19:32
Speaker
I mean, everyone thought eBooks would just sort of disappear and that obviously didn't quite go that way.
00:19:36
Speaker
Well, eBooks are bigger than ever.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:40
Speaker
And I've heard audio books are also bigger than ever.
00:19:44
Speaker
Audio books are, yeah.
00:19:45
Speaker
They were having a real time during the pandemic, I think, because people...
00:19:49
Speaker
were just had a lot of more downtime, I suppose, a lot more free time.
00:19:53
Speaker
And also out of the office, I guess.
00:19:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:57
Speaker
I didn't listen to much more on the audiobook side, but podcasts, I really did.
00:20:03
Speaker
So I think I get that kind of need and want for like, I suppose maybe it was just listening to someone else speak that wasn't in your immediate family.
00:20:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:12
Speaker
I was listening to Brandon Sanderson does a lot of YouTube videos and things like that.
00:20:18
Speaker
And he was talking about, and one of them, he was talking about how he'd noticed with his book specifically and in fantasy, the number of people listening on audiobook was starting to become almost the most kind of, I don't know how to phrase this,
00:20:36
Speaker
More people were listening on audiobook in some cases than were actually buying the physical book on some of his things.
00:20:44
Speaker
And I think in fantasy, audiobooks has become a huge part of how people experience those stories.
00:20:51
Speaker
Oh, definitely.
00:20:52
Speaker
I think it is, it's becoming such a dominating format when it used to just not be at all.
00:20:58
Speaker
And now it's, it's a really huge part of, of an author's sales in more genres than other, than other genres, of course.
00:21:07
Speaker
But, um, you know, I don't know what will happen with children's audio, whether that will continue to grow in the same way.
00:21:14
Speaker
I suppose with the lengths of them, it's a bit more difficult to predict how to get that bit to boom.
00:21:21
Speaker
And I think it's a lifestyle thing too.
00:21:24
Speaker
I know a lot of people who, when they go to the gym or if they go for a run or if they're doing gardening or something, they'll have either an audiobook or a podcast on.
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:36
Speaker
My colleague is like that.
00:21:37
Speaker
She goes for runs with sort of war and peace in her head or whatever it is she'll just stick to at the time.
00:21:43
Speaker
It's a long run.
00:21:43
Speaker
Awesome.
00:21:47
Speaker
But that's, that's really interesting.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:50
Speaker
I guess we all have to kind of just wait and see what happens with AI and it's not just in publishing.
00:21:55
Speaker
It's across the world.
00:21:56
Speaker
I think it's going to
00:21:57
Speaker
it's from what I've heard and and translation is a good way of kind of looking at this it it's sort of like you touched on there's going to be uh upside to a lot of it where you think oh well it's great that translation will be quicker and easily accessible so that we can translate more books so that more people can access books from written in different languages then on the other hand there's the the problem of it's like well you know all these translators are now
00:22:22
Speaker
going to have a much harder time finding work or things like that.
00:22:26
Speaker
So it's,
Pros and Cons of AI in Industries
00:22:27
Speaker
I think a lot of it's going to come with good, but also bad.
00:22:30
Speaker
And it's going to be about treading that line.
00:22:33
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:22:34
Speaker
I think it's as with any change, any big change, there's going to be things that are great and there's going to be things that aren't so, so good.
00:22:41
Speaker
And we just have to keep an eye on what those things are and make sure they don't get too bad.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:46
Speaker
We just have to wait for the dust to settle.
00:22:48
Speaker
I've heard it's, it's, and I assume you're doing this at Watson Little as well, but I've heard, uh, the contracts of a lot more has to be added into contracts now to, to protect the authors and the writing.
00:23:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:03
Speaker
But the publishers too, they're also kind of trying to protect themselves from books written entirely by AI.
00:23:11
Speaker
Although I think you can spot a book written entirely by AI at the moment.
00:23:15
Speaker
Maybe it will become more sophisticated in a year's time.
00:23:18
Speaker
I can still, I think, touch words, spot an AI book.
00:23:22
Speaker
Have you had some submissions where you've been like, this is AI?
00:23:26
Speaker
Not so much actual sort of queries as in the sample chapters, but the query letters.
00:23:34
Speaker
We have had a few submission letters that definitely feel like they were constructed by AI.
00:23:41
Speaker
I've heard it's a big issue in job applications.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:45
Speaker
Well, we were hiring recently and I'm quite certain that at least one of the cover letters, it's just sort of in that strange, sort of uncanny way they refer to the business or refer to what we do in a way that was really weird to read.
00:24:01
Speaker
And I thought, we all thought, wait, I'm pretty sure that this is done via AI.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:06
Speaker
Oh, it's weird.
00:24:07
Speaker
It's a scary, scary new world.
00:24:09
Speaker
Let's get back onto less scary things.
00:24:10
Speaker
Let's talk about
Managing Authors and Signing Challenges
00:24:11
Speaker
your list and taking on new authors.
00:24:15
Speaker
We chatted about this last time you were on the podcast.
00:24:17
Speaker
So for anyone listening, if you want to hear more about Megan's secret ways of going through submissions, things like that, go back, check out number 64.
00:24:26
Speaker
We might be retreading some things, but it's been a long time.
00:24:30
Speaker
It has.
00:24:30
Speaker
Maybe I do everything differently now.
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:24:35
Speaker
Do you know how many authors you represent right now?
00:24:39
Speaker
Oh, a lot.
00:24:43
Speaker
Ah, yes, a lot.
00:24:44
Speaker
I would say it's probably around 40 or something.
00:24:50
Speaker
I don't know when the website was last updated, but I think there's on the website, there's 40 on your page.
00:24:57
Speaker
Oh, so it's probably more than that because there'll be a few things that I represent, like estates for the agency and stuff like that.
00:25:04
Speaker
But yeah, so around, it's maybe 50 then, let's conservatively say around 50.
00:25:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:25:10
Speaker
So as you say, a lot.
00:25:12
Speaker
As your list grows, do you find yourself signing new authors with less frequency?
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:22
Speaker
Um, there is definitely, um, sort of more caution because you're aware of how much time that you have.
00:25:32
Speaker
Um, but I have recently hired an assistant.
00:25:36
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:25:37
Speaker
And so she, I love her.
00:25:39
Speaker
I love her so much.
00:25:39
Speaker
She's so great.
00:25:41
Speaker
She, because she's so sort of eager and she's reading at such speed, I have in the past few months actually taken on more than I probably would if she wasn't here.
00:25:51
Speaker
Just suppose that is the mark of a good assistant.
00:25:54
Speaker
But you're always a bit cautious because there's things that I love in submissions.
00:25:57
Speaker
And I just think, I just don't have the time for this right now.
00:25:59
Speaker
And I feel it wouldn't be right to take you on and make you wait where another agent won't do that.
00:26:07
Speaker
So yeah, you do sort of slow down on taking on new things, but then there'll be periods where you'll sort of realise all of your authors are quite engaged in something or in contracts.
00:26:20
Speaker
And there's a bit of a lull where you think, oh, I've got a bit of space.
00:26:24
Speaker
I could find something here.
00:26:25
Speaker
I could take something on now.
00:26:27
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:28
Speaker
Because the need and want to take things on doesn't go anywhere.
00:26:32
Speaker
I still want to take on loads of things.
00:26:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:34
Speaker
But you have to, you can't, I can't do it all.
00:26:37
Speaker
In that first instance, if you do come across something and you think, oh, I wish I could take this, but I just don't have the bandwidth for it right now.
00:26:45
Speaker
Do you, do you sometimes in that instance, maybe pass that on to someone else at Watson Little?
00:26:51
Speaker
If I think it could appeal, I would.
00:26:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:55
Speaker
But maybe then I'd be too jealous to see it really closely near me, but not mine.
00:27:01
Speaker
So maybe then it's better if it's gone completely out of my reach.
00:27:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:07
Speaker
It's good you know yourself that well.
00:27:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:09
Speaker
I had a situation quite recently where I really, really loved a book.
00:27:13
Speaker
I thought it was so great, but I just did not.
00:27:15
Speaker
I just looked at the queue of things that I had to read.
00:27:18
Speaker
You know, the big, all of the manuscripts I'd had delivered by clients, all of the fulls that I already had.
00:27:23
Speaker
And I just think I can't.
00:27:25
Speaker
And they had another offer.
00:27:26
Speaker
So it was just, I reluctantly stepped back, but I still don't.
00:27:31
Speaker
sort of quite annoyed about it.
00:27:33
Speaker
And I keep checking to see where they, who they've signed with on their social media so that I can be even more obsessed with it, I suppose.
00:27:40
Speaker
But you have that sort of sense of regret, but I, I can buy that book now as a fan when that book comes out and I can be supportive of that.
00:27:48
Speaker
I just, I wish I'd had the time, but I just don't.
00:27:51
Speaker
You've got to know your own limitations, I suppose, when it comes to these things.
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah, of course, because like you said, it's not good for the author or that book if you sign them and then you're like, okay, this is great.
00:28:02
Speaker
But the thing is, I have about six months of backlog before I can even sit down with you and have a conversation.
00:28:09
Speaker
That's not good for anyone.
00:28:11
Speaker
No one really wins there.
00:28:12
Speaker
No, it's just not very good agenting.
00:28:14
Speaker
It's bad.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:16
Speaker
And that's the truth about it.
00:28:17
Speaker
That's a good little bit of, a bit of information there for people to consider querying and things like that is it's like, there's sometimes where it just, it's the stars don't align.
00:28:26
Speaker
It's, it, it's not the right time and it's not the right place, but like, it doesn't mean that you didn't love the story or the manuscript.
00:28:33
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:36
Speaker
Um, you represent authors and stories from middle grade.
00:28:41
Speaker
Actually, even, do you rep picture books?
00:28:44
Speaker
I do sometimes.
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:45
Speaker
I do often.
00:28:45
Speaker
Off the off one or two.
00:28:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:48
Speaker
But I've seen on the website, which now I'm not sure when it was last updated because you only have 40 people on the website.
00:28:54
Speaker
You're not currently taking submissions for picture books though.
00:28:57
Speaker
Is that right?
00:28:57
Speaker
No, that is still true.
00:28:59
Speaker
So I do picture books when one of my authors decides to send me a picture book text.
00:29:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:04
Speaker
And they're like, I've done this.
00:29:05
Speaker
And I think, oh, lovely.
00:29:07
Speaker
And I love doing that, but I, I would rather have authors that do older texts as well as picture books, not just picture books.
00:29:17
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:29:19
Speaker
So, okay.
00:29:19
Speaker
So it's, so you do rep picture books up through middle grade, but you don't take subs for picture books.
00:29:25
Speaker
Exactly.
00:29:26
Speaker
Exactly.
00:29:26
Speaker
Right.
00:29:27
Speaker
And is your list evenly spread kind of across those age groups?
00:29:35
Speaker
Um, relatively, I think there's probably a bit more adult on there at the moment.
00:29:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:44
Speaker
Um, we almost a year ago now we acquired an agency called the Juliet Burton Literary Agency.
00:29:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:51
Speaker
Um, and, um,
00:29:54
Speaker
Juliet's list was all adult authors.
00:29:56
Speaker
So those have been redistributed through the agents here.
00:30:01
Speaker
And so now I think that's tipped me more adult than non-adult.
00:30:06
Speaker
So now I have to tip it back.
00:30:08
Speaker
Now I have space to get some children.
00:30:10
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:12
Speaker
Is that, is that genuinely like you would like to get some more kind of younger stuff to kind of level things out again, or are you just...
00:30:19
Speaker
I liked, well, partially it was a bit of both.
00:30:22
Speaker
I like to, the reason my list is so hugely broad, which it can be difficult to manage sometimes, but I quite like being able to kind of leave the adult and moved to children and just do something completely, read something completely different.
00:30:38
Speaker
And not that it's using a hugely different part of my brain, but it just feels like enough of a switch that it sort of re-energizes you as you're moving through
00:30:50
Speaker
Very, very different books.
00:30:52
Speaker
I find if I have to read the same type of book too frequently, I'll lose steam on that.
00:30:58
Speaker
So I quite like to sort of jump around and do like a children's nonfiction here and middle grade and then over to a rom-com and then over to a nonfiction memoir for adults or whatever it is.
00:31:10
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:31:11
Speaker
And then you keep your energy high whenever you move on to the next project because it's something new.
00:31:15
Speaker
It's something really new.
00:31:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:19
Speaker
Is it quite a different sort of system or approach when you're putting out a children's or YA manuscript versus an adult one?
Submitting Manuscripts: Children's vs. Adult
00:31:27
Speaker
In terms of the logistics, not really.
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:30
Speaker
It's the same kind of format and you're thinking about the same types of things.
00:31:35
Speaker
It's just that children's publishing is perhaps a bit slower than adult publishing.
00:31:40
Speaker
Not always.
00:31:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:41
Speaker
But it can be.
00:31:42
Speaker
I've heard like things like announcements and stuff are generally held off a lot more, get them closer to festivals and things for children.
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:50
Speaker
But it's, yeah, logistically in terms of, you know, what you need, what you're sending out, how you're approaching sending out is pretty much the same.
00:32:00
Speaker
Yeah, which I guess is the same as writers submitting to agents, children.
00:32:06
Speaker
Logistically, it's a very similar thing.
00:32:08
Speaker
Obviously, the content is the big changing thing there.
00:32:12
Speaker
Definitely.
00:32:14
Speaker
Awesome.
00:32:14
Speaker
That brings us to the Desert Island series.
00:32:18
Speaker
Which now last time you were on, whilst expressing how much you disliked the question, uh, you thought you, you, you said you'd have a, you'd have a different answer every day if, if you were asked it.
00:32:30
Speaker
So last time your choice was Emma Jane Austen.
00:32:35
Speaker
Oh, I do love that book.
00:32:38
Speaker
Would that be your choice today?
00:32:42
Speaker
I don't know.
00:32:47
Speaker
Probably not.
00:32:50
Speaker
No?
00:32:52
Speaker
No, I think I should stand by.
00:32:53
Speaker
I'll have a different one every day.
00:32:56
Speaker
Is it going to be a different Austen?
00:32:59
Speaker
I do love Jane Austen.
00:33:00
Speaker
I do for my sins.
00:33:01
Speaker
I mean, she's great.
00:33:03
Speaker
She's the best, the best satirical novelist of that time.
00:33:07
Speaker
She's so good.
00:33:09
Speaker
I could reread those books all the time, every day, forever.
00:33:12
Speaker
And she did all the romance tropes.
00:33:15
Speaker
She did beautifully.
00:33:17
Speaker
She did so well to the point where now I still, we still get submissions that are, you know, this is a spin on Pride and Prejudice or this is a spin on Sense and Sensibility.
00:33:27
Speaker
And I think, great.
00:33:27
Speaker
I know that it's going to be great then.
00:33:29
Speaker
Brilliant.
00:33:30
Speaker
Well, if it's a good spin.
00:33:32
Speaker
I have, I think the one I would take this time, and this is a children's book, so it's totally different.
00:33:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:40
Speaker
is, and I might've said this before, is Vinegar Street by Philip Ridley, which is my favourite children's book ever.
00:33:48
Speaker
And we were in Bologna last week.
00:33:50
Speaker
So I was just, my mind was very children's books, children's books.
00:33:54
Speaker
And I think about this book all the time.
00:33:57
Speaker
I love it so much.
00:33:57
Speaker
It's so weird.
00:33:59
Speaker
It's the weirdest book.
00:34:01
Speaker
It's quirky if you had to sort of use a descriptor.
00:34:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:04
Speaker
But it's so great.
00:34:05
Speaker
I could read it every day, I think.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:09
Speaker
There's definitely something to be said about a book that you think about all the time or just every now and again, you're like that book, you can tell that book affected you in a way, you know?
00:34:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:20
Speaker
I really, I'd love to find something like it, but I actually think that it wouldn't even be published today.
00:34:25
Speaker
It's just so odd that I just don't know who would take a chance on it.
00:34:31
Speaker
I think because they had to see such a good publishing credentials.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:38
Speaker
But yeah, it's a great book.
00:34:40
Speaker
Okay, cool.
00:34:40
Speaker
Well, I'm glad you picked something new and it wasn't just another Austen.
00:34:45
Speaker
It's always exciting to hear.
00:34:47
Speaker
Next time I'll pick another Austen.
00:34:48
Speaker
I'll go back to Austen.
00:34:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:51
Speaker
A nice eclectic jump to something different there.
00:34:54
Speaker
Just like your list.
00:34:55
Speaker
Indeed.
00:34:57
Speaker
Awesome.
00:34:57
Speaker
So my next questions are all about different parts of Megan's list, what she's looking to pick up, the idea of concept as king and weird DMs as an agent.
00:35:06
Speaker
But
Closing and Thank You to Megan Carroll
00:35:07
Speaker
we are at the end of the regular episode and into the extended cut exclusive to Patreon subscribers.
00:35:11
Speaker
So anyone listening who hasn't yet joined the Patreon, please do think about it.
00:35:14
Speaker
It goes a long way towards covering the cost of running this podcast.
00:35:19
Speaker
As I said, you have a great understanding of yourself, Megan.
00:35:23
Speaker
You know your limitations there.
00:35:24
Speaker
I do.
00:35:25
Speaker
I'm happy to read them.
00:35:26
Speaker
I'll read novels forever.
00:35:28
Speaker
No writing for me.
00:35:29
Speaker
Amazing.
00:35:31
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Megan, for coming on the podcast and telling us all about what you've been up to, what's going on in publishing and what you're looking for and all that cool stuff.
00:35:39
Speaker
It's been awesome chatting with you.
00:35:40
Speaker
Pleasure.
00:35:41
Speaker
It's been so nice chatting to you too.
00:35:43
Speaker
And for anyone wanting to keep up with Megan, you can find her on Twitter at Megan A. Carroll.
00:35:48
Speaker
That's two R's and two L's.
00:35:51
Speaker
And to support the podcast, like, follow and subscribe on your podcast platform of choice and follow along on all socials.
00:35:55
Speaker
Join the Patreon for extended episodes ad-free in a week early and check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:36:01
Speaker
Thanks again, Megan.
00:36:01
Speaker
And thanks to everyone listening.
00:36:02
Speaker
We'll catch you on the next episode.