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Primary vs. Intermediate - Which are more important?
42 Plays3 years ago
Today on IAAP, Abbie and Robert discuss which grade levels are the most important in elementary school. Although ALL teachers are important in K-5, there are various points of view and factors on this topic, and the hosts examine many of them from their perspective. Listen in as they examine different educational topics from various points of view. Take the challenge of looking at a topic from another side and see if your opinion may change. In the end, no matter what side you are on, it’s all about perspective. What’s yours?
In this episode, the hosts discuss:
- are the primary years the most important for learning
- are the intermediate years the most important for the school
- should resources be allocated to certain grade levels
- the issue that an administrator may have when looking forward
Connect with Abbie and Robert
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Abbie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kindergarten_chaos/’
Robert on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pryncypalwithay/
Robert on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RobertHCCSD
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome back to It's All About Perspective. I'm Abigail Peterson, my co-host. Hi,
Thanksgiving Reflections
00:00:24
Speaker
I'm Robert Hinchliffe. Abby, how was Thanksgiving? It was great. Had a great time. It's always nice weather here in Las Vegas.
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm thankful that I had an opportunity to be available and present with friends and family. How was yours? I was great. I didn't do a whole lot. I got to sit down behind, of course, because I didn't work on my vacation, but that's okay. I'll work tonight. That's right. That's always a nice thing when you can actually take a break and not work. That's hard to do in education. Scary how fast time goes when you're not working. That's very true too.
Debate: Primary vs. Intermediate Education
00:01:02
Speaker
Hey, today I was talking to the assistant principal at Thompson, Shawna. We're talking about a few things, but I need your perspective. Before I talk about this though, I want to make abundantly clear. All teachers, K through five, elementary school, you're all important to the process, okay? You're all important to the process.
00:01:29
Speaker
but we've talked about having this debate before. So we're going to do it today just because I think it's going to be you versus me a little bit. Sean and I are talking about next year and about, uh, we talked a few weeks ago about don't slow the hike is down and all that stuff. But anyways, it got me to thinking, I'm going to ask Abby this question. Abby from a teacher's perspective, your perspective, kindergarten, chaos is perspective.
00:01:58
Speaker
What's more important, primary grades or intermediate grades? Hands down primary. You have to elaborate. You have to elaborate. Hands down primary. And as you said, all teachers are important. There's value in every single grade level. We could go into all of that. But let's just immediately say, if it was not for everything you learned in kindergarten,
00:02:27
Speaker
you could not make it in second grade. You have to, ultimately everything comes down to a foundation. And if a student does not have letters, they do not have number sense, they are not going to be able to do multiplication.
00:02:46
Speaker
So everything always comes back to that foundation. And research now shows that if students do not have that foundation by the time they're in third grade, I don't care how wonderful those third grade teachers are, or how amazing the fourth grade teachers are, or the best fifth grade teachers in the world. If this child does not have
00:03:09
Speaker
a Phonics Foundation phonemic awareness, a number sense they are not going to be successful even with the best rockstar teacher in the world. Okay. Thank you for your perspective on that. Mine with two backgrounds. One, I taught fourth grade, third grade for about a month and then fourth grade. And being admin. When we were at Smith, we were a five-star shining star school.
00:03:39
Speaker
What were those accomplishments based upon? They were based upon SBAC, which is taken in grades three, four, and five. So going along those lines, let's say that we have
00:04:00
Speaker
Let's just say we have average kindergarten, average first grade, average second grade, and then third, fourth, and fifth grade, they are all rock stars. We're going to be a five-star school. From a principal perspective, we are judged on grades three, four, and five. Therefore, yes, primary is important. I don't want to say it's not.
00:04:27
Speaker
From an admin perspective, wouldn't three, four, and five be more important? There would be no three, four, and five grade if there was no primary. So take a child that has never had kindergarten, first grade, and second grade education and drop them in the most amazing third grade class, and you are not going to get results. You are going to have a zero on SBAC because if they do not have a foundation of kindergarten, first grade, and second grade,
00:04:56
Speaker
So you're talking about just one single kid, when in reality, I as the admin only need third grade in reality to have 60% of their kids pass.
00:05:07
Speaker
But my point is the reason why primary is so important is it lays the foundation. And my analogy was if you have, take 15 students, take as many as you want, but if you, let's just erase the kindergarten, first grade and second grade foundation and drop them in third grade. That's why it's so important because they have to have some sort of foundation and that is taught in the primary grades.
00:05:36
Speaker
I agree with you, but we are judged on three, four, and five, so should I just allot more resources and more people to assist with grades three, four, and five?
00:05:47
Speaker
I disagree. I had a conversation with somebody recently where we were discussing this similar issue and I feel very confident that if you took a
00:06:07
Speaker
a student who only had the basics that they could survive. They could survive with just basic skills. They could survive without multi-digit multiplication and division. They could live life without knowing algebra. And so I think it is so important to have a super strong primary
00:06:33
Speaker
foundation in elementary school, because if that foundation is shaky, then you're putting third, fourth, and fifth grade teachers in a position to remediate mistakes and inadequacies that were done in a primary level, where if I put a lot of effort and resources into strong foundational teachers in kindergarten, first grade, and second grade, then those teachers in third, fourth, and fifth can take those students to the next level.
00:07:02
Speaker
So I want to make, okay. Again, there's no debate. Foundation's important. Can you build a house on a bad foundation? But you said, well, I can survive without multi-digit multiplication and all of those skills. I think you were trying to imply that we can't survive life without skills that you learn in kindergarten. Okay.
00:07:26
Speaker
We're not judged on the skills that you learn in kindergarten. We're judged on multi-digit multiplication. But you can't have those skills without the skills you learned in kindergarten is my point. You can't have those. Let me make another point. I'm trying to frame this. You got me laughing a little bit, which is good.
00:07:49
Speaker
Okay, if we have the absolute best kindergarten, first grade and second grade teachers, and the absolute average to worst third, fourth and fifth, we will not be a five star school, which is what we're judged on.
00:08:08
Speaker
So, so it's important to you to be a five star school so that you can have what, more resources and send mediocre students on to. You get less resources when you're five stars. Okay. So then, so then what would it matter if you're a five star school just for cloud?
00:08:29
Speaker
Pride, community celebration. You know, we are five stars. That is what every principal wants to say. Okay, so what about when we went down and stars in Smith and you said it doesn't really matter? Well, you got it. Oh, caught you, huh? That was me trying to mollify the staff. Yeah, exactly, exactly. If you say, ah, you guys are terrible, what are you doing?
00:08:58
Speaker
I didn't say it doesn't matter in the fact that we're not going to do anything about it. It doesn't matter because we were still a great school, but we have to fix something. Well, this is just my opinion, of course, my perspective. But to me, the star rating system is
00:09:15
Speaker
is equivalent to Yelp. I don't disagree, but that's what we're doing. It's equivalent to Yelp. And so I am in the business of educating children. That's what I'm in the business of, giving the best that I have. And if I were an admin, I would want the strongest primary teachers so that these kids have a really firm foundation that they can build on. Because if I have mediocre teachers or if I have mediocre
00:09:45
Speaker
application of content in the primary grades, then when they go to third, fourth, and fifth grade, there is a lot of remediation that needs to be done. And the research clearly states, if a child is in third grade and is not at grade level, they're never going to be at grade level without
Resource Allocation Discussion
00:10:00
Speaker
extreme resources. And so it has to be- I love that I have you fired up.
00:10:08
Speaker
I love that I have you fired up. There has to be, and it frustrates me because I've seen this in several different instances where you have a weak link. And when you have a weak link, for instance, and sometimes this is no fault of a teacher or a school. We'll create a scenario that is something similar that happened in a school that we were at, but this happens in schools everywhere.
00:10:33
Speaker
So a teacher, a family member gets ill or God forbid that teacher gets ill and is out for months and you have to have a long-term sub. I remember one year it was right after you started that a teacher left
00:10:51
Speaker
after she was like, oh, by the way, I'm having a baby. Goodbye. And we had no idea. And she just left. And the rest of the year was spent with a long term sub that and I I'm not trying to be rude, but was incompetent because she she wasn't a teacher. So you had a first grade classroom that was now went on to second grade with that. That was the equivalent of kindergartners. You're missing the principal perspective.
00:11:23
Speaker
And really the district perspective. What does the district want your school to be? Do they want you to be full of kids that have great foundational skills or they want you to be a five-star school? What do you think?
00:11:39
Speaker
Well, I think it would work if I went and talked to the cabinet and I said, hey, we're a one-star school. But by goodness, those kids know they're alphabet and they're sounds and they're never sounds. OK, Robert, that's ridiculous. Because what's going to happen is if they have strong foundational skills, when they get to third, fourth, and fifth grade, they're going to pass the SPACs. They're going to be reflective of your SPAC scores. Not necessarily.
00:12:05
Speaker
I disagree. I disagree. It's just like phonics, which we've had this conversation before. Give the kids the code. Give the kids the code. Teach them the code. And when they have it, they will be able to read. But if you're just, if you take me
00:12:21
Speaker
I don't know any foreign languages at all. And you put me in a Vietnamese library and say, well, by osmosis, you're going to be a good reader. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. You have to teach. This is so fun. You're telling me that if you teach a kid phonics and they know all their phonics. All the skills? There's a lot of skills in phonics. It goes beyond the alphabet, by the way. Yes, I'm well aware.
00:12:51
Speaker
You, let's just say that they do a court fine and they pass that thing. They got them all. Okay. Okay. You're telling me that if they have all that, they will pass an S back. No problem. So why do we even need their fourth or fifth? Well, okay, so we could we could break this down further. Let me ask you a question. Why do we have
00:13:11
Speaker
very complicated math word problems that kids can't even read. They can't even read because they're trying to decode what this is actually saying. And they're spending so much time trying to read the problem and understand what it's asking that they're missing the whole math problem because that is included in phonics.
00:13:33
Speaker
So do you understand what I'm saying? You're making my point. Just because they can pass the core phonics with 100% doesn't mean that they can complete that problem. And that problem is ultimately what the school is judged upon. I think the system of stars and rating schools based upon- That's irrelevant. This is the way it is right now.
00:13:57
Speaker
Well, in my opinion, and my opinion is I think that primary is the most important. That's my, that is my opinion. Okay, let me give you another scenario. Next year we're growing, we're probably growing by 100 kids, I don't know, maybe five teachers. We ultimately are judged on SBAC 345. Why don't we have class size reduction in grades 345?
00:14:28
Speaker
Shouldn't I hire five people for those grade levels to assist in that since that's the ultimate, quote unquote, goal or the ultimate system that we're judged by? Well,
00:14:44
Speaker
I would say to that, that going along with what you're saying, they should have all of their skills and they should be ready. So you shouldn't need that much time to remediate. And these teachers should be able to handle 30 plus kids and adequately teach that amount of kids because they are proficient. Now allow me to retort. At Thompson last year, our proficiency rate
00:15:11
Speaker
was 58% in math. They have, now you cannot blame COVID. That's not part of this. They have the best foundation, most of them, that they're going to get. So you just said that basically the teachers should have made a pass anyways because they had the foundation.
00:15:35
Speaker
Okay, well, we could, this could go totally into assessments as well. Like I said, I mean, we're only talking about, but you're bringing up, you're bringing up all these things that sometimes it doesn't, the correlation isn't there because we can talk about some of these assessments that don't actually match to the standards that are being taught.
00:15:57
Speaker
Okay. So now all of a sudden we must be teaching the wrong standards. So then Robert, so then you tell me as the principal of your school, why do you have a 58% accuracy or proficiency? I would be glad to. Our kids do not have excellent number sense. I think. Well, where does that come from? You cut me off. Hold on.
00:16:24
Speaker
And it is a microcosm of really all schools. They don't know their math facts. And I don't care what you say out there, kindergarten, first grade teachers are gonna tell you they don't know their math facts. Second grade, third grade teachers are gonna tell you they don't know math facts. It's a domino effect.
00:16:44
Speaker
But another reason is they don't attend a precision. Kids today cannot focus on the problems. So that's a back to another assessment maybe. But our problem is not the teachers. You're gonna say, well, it's the assessment then, maybe. But again, so if that's the case, with smaller class sizes and three, four, five,
00:17:14
Speaker
So I'll give you a kindergarten 29, like fifth grade, and I'll give fifth grade 20 like
Systemic Educational Issues
00:17:20
Speaker
kindergarten because...
00:17:23
Speaker
SBAC matters. Well, you say it does. I don't agree with that. I mean, I know that's what the district says, and I know that's what you say, but I don't because- This is just for the sake of the argument. I know, having- Just doing that. So as somebody who actually had 29 in a classroom- I think you actually had like 32 once. No, I didn't. When you started, I thought you had like AMPM and 32 or- Yeah, but it ended up getting split.
00:17:51
Speaker
At one time, for 12 weeks, I had 29 students. In all fairness, though, so did the other three kindergarten teachers, so it wasn't just me. But as somebody who had 29 kindergarten students, it is
00:18:07
Speaker
a nightmare because you are trying to not only teach academics, but there's a lot of social, emotional, fine motor things that you are trying to teach as well, which is something that most third, fourth, and fifth grade teachers do not have to deal with.
00:18:27
Speaker
So that is already an extra layer that third, fourth, and fifth grade teachers do not have to deal with. Guess what? Kindergarten first and second don't have to deal with the pressure of aspects.
00:18:41
Speaker
I agree, but going back to defending my perspective is I just don't believe, I believe that primary grades are so important and we should be putting resources there and we should have smaller class size because in order, there's a lot of remediation, there's a lot of differentiation in a kindergarten and first grade class. As an admin who goes in and watches them, you know that. I can have kindergartners, wait, listen, hold, please. I have kindergartners who come in
00:19:11
Speaker
who sometimes have all of their letters and sounds and are beginning to read. And then I have the majority who don't know the difference between a letter and a number. I've got to differentiate for that. There are huge discrepancies in kindergarten and first grade. The gap most of the time tends to get more narrow as they move on. Okay, I'm gonna retort.
00:19:37
Speaker
I disagree with you because in fourth grade, I may have someone who needs sounds first grade level as someone who needs calculus or something because they're so high. My gap in three, four or five is wider than yours.
00:19:58
Speaker
Therefore, I need more resources. And I will say that that would be the exception to the rule, not the rule. And I will say in kindergarten and first grade, that's the rule and not the exception.
00:20:08
Speaker
I would disagree with you. We do not, there is not some kind of magic pill where when they get to fourth grade, the vast majority of them are on a grade level at a certain, and they're all about the same. Kids progress at a different rate. I agree with that. I agree with that. But if you're talking about coming in on being proficient on grade level standards, the majority
00:20:36
Speaker
at least if you're going by SBAC, are supposed to be where they're at in fourth grade, correct? And you're gonna have one or two or three or four that are below, and then you might have some that have way exceeded. But the majority, but I'm saying in those primary grades, you have much more extremes because
00:20:57
Speaker
There hasn't been explicit instruction. There hasn't been a lot of differentiation, especially in kindergarten, because they're just starting out the year. So how could they? But some of them have burned a preschool. Some of them, most of them have not. In my case, most of them had not.
00:21:12
Speaker
Some of fourth graders have had a great kindergarten teacher, some have not. Some have had a great first grade teacher, second grade teacher, third grade. So you would really like to flip it so that there are smaller class sizes in third, fourth, and fifth and larger class sizes in K through two. From a principal perspective, wouldn't that make sense because ultimately we are judged upon the S back in the community.
00:21:38
Speaker
There ain't no one star blue ribbon school. I would love to, I'd love to see the research. I'd love to see the research because I think- You'll never see it because nobody's ever done it because nobody's ever had the courage to do it. I want to see it. I want to see it because I guarantee you, I guarantee you that if you do that and you stack those kinder first and second grade classrooms and you reduce the class size and third, fourth and fifth,
00:22:03
Speaker
that you in two years time are going to have students who are not going to pass the S-Backs and are not going to be on grade level because they are going to come in not proficient. I disagree respectfully because I have seen you and Mary
00:22:24
Speaker
you started out with and many other kindergarten teachers in my admin day do just fine with 32 kids in a half day and in fact I am almost sure back in the day that there was no correlation between full day and half day kindergarten and that by second or third grade they mostly caught up having half day kindergarten.
00:22:47
Speaker
That's up for a different debate. I disagree. But I have seen, I have seen kindergartners be successful having had 32 kids in a half day program. Okay, so Robert, we know you're in a very prominent area where there's a lot of support. I am very beautiful. I want you to try this in other parts of town.
00:23:17
Speaker
Because, by the way, did you- Okay, you know what? Wait, you make a fantastic point right there. It depends on where you're at. I'm gonna give you that. If you- Because here, I just listened to a podcast and we can- Just let me finish. In those areas of town of which you are speaking right now,
00:23:43
Speaker
They are still failing with 17 kindergartners in a room, 18 kindergartners in a room. That is a bigger microcosm of a societal educational problem. Those class sizes are so low now, they can't really get any lower. It's not going to make a difference. So if we are judged upon SBAC, what if we
00:24:07
Speaker
Remediate really well in third fourth and fifth and just plug gaps and plug holes Would that move the needle? You're gonna say no. I know you're gonna say no because you know primary foundation all of that Yes, it's definitely harder in some parts of town. Anybody that denies that is not wise but in the more affluent or middle-class parts of town Stars matter
00:24:35
Speaker
It just is the way it is. It helps property values. It helps a sense of community, sense of pride. It's very important.
00:24:46
Speaker
Well, it's status and its image. It's status and image. And I'm not going to do it, but I could give you schools in this town who people think are amazing. I agree with you. And they're not. They have just as much, but they know how to shine up their pig and put a prize ribbon on it.
00:25:07
Speaker
So you went, yes. That's exactly what it is. And they know who to talk to and they know how it all works, how the system all works and who to put up in the front and all of that. And I just don't have any tolerance for that because I think it's
00:25:26
Speaker
I know it's human nature. That's why social media exists. It's all about image. It's all about what is out there. Now, mind you, behind the curtain, it's a total disaster. But in front of the curtain, it looks beautiful. And that's a fraud. That's false. Yeah. So, okay. Just wrapping this up, moving in.
00:25:46
Speaker
I personally really wish we would go to a map growth-based system because then every teacher would need all the resources and every teacher would matter equally. Therefore, I would have to say third grade needs more help this year, second grade need more help this year, kindergarten needs more help this year, and basically use resources to help all kids
00:26:15
Speaker
as best I can. The problem with SBAC is it creates arguments like this dialogue. And that is not good for kids because three, four, and five, last year, Stephanie and Michelle at Thompson, they were drowning. Steph had 41 kids and Michelle had 37. And there was nothing we could do about it. We were growing. It's just the way it went. That's not fair to them. They are both fantastic teachers.
00:26:43
Speaker
Yet, we didn't have great proficiency. And they feel the pressure of that. It hurts them. If we went K-5, map growth, Abby, your kids need to grow the same as second grade, the same as fourth grade. It all feeds into our STAR system. We would not have to have discussions like this.
00:27:10
Speaker
I can agree with you on that. I think that maybe that the STAR system and aspects is maybe, I don't want to say archaic, but I think that there's a better use of assessments. I think there's probably better tools out there to assess.
00:27:32
Speaker
I would love, we've kind of talked about assessments a little bit. I definitely know that there has to be some tool, there has to be a measurement tool of growth. We have to have that. Because otherwise, you have one school saying, oh, well, we're proficient in everything.
00:27:49
Speaker
Who is saying what proficient is and so there has to be Some commonality in that and I agree with that, but I just don't I just think it's unfair to base everything on s backs when
00:28:06
Speaker
like you said, then it's just creating this, then you're just creating this culture of, well, we got it, we must put more resources into three, four, and five so we can get our scores up so we can now have the star system, which doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things. It's just, but we have to have it. Yeah. See, like I had, you know, whenever principals reach out at the beginning of their career and they ask, you know, like, what'd you do at Smith to be successful?
00:28:35
Speaker
Honestly, the first thing I did or I tell people is make sure you're fourth grade strong. Because fourth grade has to grow the third graders and have proficiency. If you want to be showing growth in quotes, if your fourth grade is strong, they're going to grow kids and kids are going to pass and you're going to close gaps, which is what the district wants.
00:29:01
Speaker
That is gonna drive kindergarten people crazy. Because kindergarten people are gonna say, you need a strong kindergarten to set the foundation. But that is the dilemma that the system puts principles in. And therefore, from our perspective, we have to at least take a moment to think, okay, I have to make sure three, four, five are
Critique of Assessment Systems
00:29:22
Speaker
good. I also wanna make another point about three, four, five. Clark County, at least in my region,
00:29:30
Speaker
They do look at MAP as our, you know, they wanna make sure all kids are growing.
00:29:36
Speaker
So now, three, four, and five have double weight on them. They have to make sure kids know MAP, which could be fourth or fifth grade level, but they also have to make sure kids are proficient in the grade level they teach. That's ultimate importance for the state. So third, fourth, and fifth, going back to it, they have double pressure from me and the region, and then from the state on SBACs.
00:30:01
Speaker
which then would lead me more to saying, okay, these four teachers feel that pressure and they need more resources. Going back to the fact that this is the system and what it has created. So let me ask you a question. I'm sitting here thinking as you were talking. So then these, so third, fourth and fifth, what is causing them to be non proficient then? There's a myriad of things.
00:30:29
Speaker
It does depend on your foundation, wrapping it up. And again, I wanna say all teachers are important. We just wanted to have this debate. So a myriad of things. One is they don't have foundational skills. They didn't get them from somewhere. They missed out. And now we expect third, fourth and fifth to be miracle workers and do that. I think in math, many cases, they don't know their math facts. And the moment they don't know a math fact, they mess it up and they cannot get the right answer.
00:30:55
Speaker
writing on constructive responses on that piece of the SBAC kills kids, even though they say, well, you know, the grammar doesn't matter, they still don't have the foundation to formulate a complete thought and wrap it up well and explain their answer. So there's a lot to it. But I would say largely comes down to just not having number sense.
00:31:19
Speaker
And I'll go along with you on this. The SBAC for math is really hard. If you cannot read, you're going to struggle. So that's why we know we have a math problem at Thompson's because 70% of our kids can pass it in reading and we're struggling in math. So we don't have a reading problem so much as a math problem. There's so many factors to it, but again, that's why I wish we would just go to the growth system.
00:31:47
Speaker
And then we would really see who's actually growing kids. SBAC, we get no data from. We don't know where they mess up. MAP gives us data instantly. So I don't know why I know why it's financial thing, but it's not good for kids. SBAC, I'll say it on record, is not good for schools and kids.
00:32:10
Speaker
Certainly not teachers. It's almost the equivalent to me of the brigands for kindergarten. Sure. So if you're not familiar with the brigands test, we give it the first two- We don't have to anymore. Okay, but at one time we did. Well, and you and I had a conversation about this years ago. And do you remember what I said about the brigands?
00:32:32
Speaker
I said, I am, you don't remember, but I'll tell you. No, but I'm going to laugh in a second. Okay. I told Robert, I said, you know what they're doing? I said, because they would ask us to do the Brigants test the first two to three weeks of school. And the Brigants test is a one-on-one test that takes 15 to 20 minutes per kid.
00:32:54
Speaker
And it's things like, can you walk toe to heel backwards? Can you hop on one foot? Do you know your address? Do you know your phone number? No, my mom changes her number every other week. I mean, it's ridiculous, a lot of the things. And I told Robert, I said, I guarantee you they're doing all this to collect data.
00:33:11
Speaker
to prove that these kindergartners are not ready and need state-funded, federally-funded, mandated preschool. Am I right, Robert? I remember you saying that. Yes, I remember you saying that. And that's coming down the pike, guarantee you. And they're using that data because they never did anything with the data. This is a crazy thing to me, was the Burgance was given the first two or three weeks
00:33:34
Speaker
And then we never did any, we never followed up with it. We never saw if they improved. We never saw if they mastered any of those skills. It was literally like, here's the test. You were supposed to use them, Abby, to help them help you teach kindergarten. Oh yeah, walk toe to heel backwards. Okay. That's very important. You have time to make sure that they're walking. Knowing their phone number and their address.
00:33:58
Speaker
And which address are they using? Their real address or the one that they're using from the neighbor down the street to be on their own variance? In kindergarten. Yeah, exactly. You know what's funny though, is on both the brigands on the S-Bag, there are people who will adamantly claim those are both very important assessments.
Episode Conclusion and Future Topics
00:34:18
Speaker
Okay, well those are probably the same people that love reading recovery.
00:34:22
Speaker
Drop the mic it's time to go. Well it's been fun. I would love for us to have another, well of course we'll be back next week with another podcast, but I would love for us to
00:34:39
Speaker
delve into the number sense and math facts because one of the things that I have noticed as a supervisor of student teachers over the last two years is I've had the opportunity to watch fourth and I mean all K through five. But in the fourth and fifth grade classes, the biggest thing that teachers tell me is they struggle with this particular standard because they do not know their math facts.
00:35:03
Speaker
So I would love to get into this. This is something that I've spent a little bit of time kind of thinking about and, you know, doing a little bit of research on. So I'd love to talk about it in another podcast. But until then, remember. It's all about perspective. Thank you for joining us today and have a great week.