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Ep 18 - Philosopheckery: Trumpism vs Decency, with Terry Moran
23 Plays9 months ago
Terry Moran put Trump on the spot. A few weeks later he posted a tweet calling Trump and Miller World-Class Haters! It got him fired after a career spanning 3 decades with ABC news. Terry talks with us about the intervew, the tweet. And how he's feeling now that he's freed from the corporate structured media into the fast growing space of independent journalism.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Terry Moran
00:00:20
Daithi Flannery
Hello listeners and welcome to the podcast. Today I'm chatting with someone who folks here in the West of Ireland might not know off the top of their heads, but in the US he's been a big name in journalism for years, Terry Moran.
00:00:34
Daithi Flannery
Terry spent decades with ABC News covering conflict zones, the White House, the Supreme Court and all the major political stories over the past few decades, but recently he made headlines himself.
00:00:45
Terry Moran
Okay.
00:00:46
Daithi Flannery
He did a pretty tough, no-nonsense interview with Donald Trump not long ago, one of the few journalists who's really put Trump on the spot. And then a few weeks after that interview, he posted a tweet calling Trump and the White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy, Stephen Miller, world-class haters.
00:01:04
Daithi Flannery
That tweet ended up costing him his job at ABC. So in this conversation, we'd like to get into that. The Trump interview, the tweet, and what it's like being a journalist in a time when telling the truth can get you fired.
00:01:17
Daithi Flannery
I'm Dahi, this is Philosophicry. How you doing, Terry?
00:01:22
Terry Moran
I'm good, Dahit. That was a kind introduction. Thank you.
00:01:25
Daithi Flannery
and That's no problem. that's ah It's hard to overstate your career there and in media. But how has it been since ah since you've left media?
Transition to Substack and Journalism's Challenges
00:01:35
Daithi Flannery
You're on Substack now?
00:01:37
Terry Moran
Yeah, that's where that's my home now. And ah it's been both kind of daunting. It was a shock for sure to get fired after 28 years for yeah what I thought was an accurate description of of what I could see in front of me and what was happening in front of me.
00:01:54
Terry Moran
I mean, it's a little hot, I suppose. They they they they thought very hot, too so hot that I should lose my job there. So that was a shock for sure. But um in addition to kind of all the emotions, usual emotions that come with job loss, you know, you spiral two in the morning and all that stuff. What are we going to do?
00:02:13
Terry Moran
I find it exhilarating because i that was the established one of the established net tv networks in America for 50 years, and I was there for 27, 28 of them.
00:02:26
Terry Moran
And I feel like I walked out of yesterday and into tomorrow. I feel like I walked out of a cave almost where everything looked the same kind gray. And now, Well, this kind of media is obviously where we're all headed.
00:02:40
Terry Moran
And it's it's more interesting as a journalist, right? You liberate your voice. I don't work for a corporation. I work for myself. But also it's cooperative and and and you're connecting with people.
00:02:53
Terry Moran
People give me tips on good stories. People give me help and sources and such like that. And, you know, you can feel that. And it's, I'm having a good time, actually.
00:03:04
Daithi Flannery
Good, good. And do you feel like, you said there are people give you to tips on stories and this. Was that not happening when you were with a corporation? Do you feel like people maybe trust you more now that you're an individual person?
00:03:15
Terry Moran
That's a great point. I'll bet that's true. Look, there was a tip line that every news organization ever worked with. People would pick up the phone, I've got a tip for you, or send something via email. Not so much, though, and not in recent years. It's interesting that you would say that because I would hear from people about, hey, look into this that.
00:03:34
Terry Moran
more, maybe it was the subject I was covering. I was covering the White House during the George W. Bush, end of Clinton's first several years of Bush. And that happened a lot more back then. That's a long time ago.
00:03:46
Terry Moran
And I think that kind of did um dry up a bit. You know, I do think it really did And I wonder if it I think that might be the case. People felt while we came together in these social media spaces, that made us feel farther and farther apart from the traditional media, especially as it,
00:04:06
Terry Moran
As it did kind of bland out,
Media's Commercial Influence and Public Trust
00:04:09
Terry Moran
if you will. You know, I mean, when I joined ABC News, there was a lot more voice in the storytelling, a lot more information in some ways as well.
00:04:20
Terry Moran
And the stories were longer. And I think one of the things that happened is ah the corporation started losing money because that model has been struggling for a long time.
00:04:31
Terry Moran
And they decided that the best way to to appeal to the people who were left, kind of, and there's still millions, don't get me wrong, um was to, don't want to say lowest common denominator, let's just say common denominator.
00:04:44
Terry Moran
And that's... That ended up being, I think, less interesting to ah less interesting place to work. And I think our audience took it more as a commodity than as something valuable to them.
00:04:57
Terry Moran
Oh yeah, that's the evening news. They all do the exact same stories in the exact same order, in exact same way, with the exact same pictures. And I think the distinctiveness of of ABC News, I loved my career there. Actually, i'm not one of those guys who really bitter about everything. I respect the people and the work they do there.
00:05:17
Terry Moran
But they kind of became the same, same, I think by the force of corporate pressure, because the bottom line was falling out. And then in Trump, it was such a It is such a fraught time in America that I think they want nothing to do with any anybody kind of putting their head above above the wall and challenging them or saying something that might tick them off. and And that's how I ended my career there.
00:05:45
Daithi Flannery
Yeah, it's um it's interesting. interesting ah David Wright is another guy who got like yeah he got let go from ABC because he was videotaped covertly by that Project Veritas guy's
00:05:50
Terry Moran
good I know David. know him well, yeah.
00:06:00
Daithi Flannery
um Now, it was highly chopped and cut, so it was what they put up. But he said something along the lines of the commercial imperative was more important than the news.
00:06:12
Daithi Flannery
And that's kind of a little bit of what I'm getting there from you as well.
00:06:12
Terry Moran
Mm-hmm.
00:06:16
Daithi Flannery
And do you think that is what happened, that the commercial imperative, is that why people stopped trusting the media? As you said, it became a product. It became a product to sell rather than ah the gift of knowledge and telling people what's going on,
Corporate Policies and Media Freedom
00:06:29
Daithi Flannery
you know?
00:06:30
Terry Moran
Yeah, I think you're right about that. The storytelling, whether it was a hard news story, this is something the government has done, this is a storm that's happened or or whatever, or whether it was a deeper investigative piece or or a feature piece, I think it flattened out quite a bit.
00:06:48
Terry Moran
And there's no question that You know, the business model has been really bad for them for a while. First, cable took a big chunk out of them. And then as people fled into social media and alternative sources of news, they were left trying to hang on our left. And once again, it still it still gets millions of people to watch, but struggling. And I think their answer was, you know, don't offend anybody.
00:07:16
Terry Moran
Don't challenge anybody.
00:07:16
Daithi Flannery
hmm
00:07:18
Terry Moran
And that ended up being um unsatisfying, you know, as a reporter and unsuccessful at the end of the day. i mean, what what one instantly finds out. I'm on Substack.
00:07:30
Terry Moran
It's called Real Patriotism with Terry Moran because I got sick of the other side kind of hijacking all that stuff. But I may keep that. I may not. It's at Terry Moran on Substack. But for me, it was it was very disturbing that...
00:07:45
Terry Moran
You couldn't really tell the stories with the values necessarily. You could do it with emotions. What that model of journalism is very good at are pictures and emotions.
00:07:56
Terry Moran
The ideal story for it is a fire or ah or a hurricane or whatever. They'll give useful information. They'll get you to the most needy places. They'll help actually get funds flowing to those places. Call out the government if they aren't working right on the on the hurricane or whatever.
00:08:15
Terry Moran
But then what's happening in our country now is the biggest story of my lifetime. We have a regime, we have an administration that is forcefully trying to change fundamentally the nature of our government.
00:08:29
Terry Moran
and It's one of the reasons I'm happy to be out of the mainstream corporate legacy media, because this is a moment when you discover who you are as a citizen in the United States.
00:08:41
Terry Moran
And I was feeling somewhat constrained. I did not intend to get fired when I but posted that. um What I intended to
00:08:49
Daithi Flannery
That's a question. That's something I'd like to get to the bottom of if I can, Terry, is about did you did you think there'd be consequences when you posted that? Like, I've heard you talk about the day and you went for a walk with the dog, you had a family day, you watched Ocean's Eleven, and but this this was in your head all day.
00:09:07
Daithi Flannery
um Did you know, did you think, okay, hitting this post button, I think I might be fired for this?
00:09:16
Terry Moran
No.
00:09:17
Daithi Flannery
No, not at all.
00:09:17
Terry Moran
Never until you knew. No.
00:09:19
Daithi Flannery
Really?
00:09:19
Terry Moran
but I didn't because i really, before I hit it, I looked at it, I reread it, and I thought, well that's a that's a description. That's something you might write if you were describing the public man that Stephen Miller, but you know the White House chief, sta count the main counselor maine counsellor for Trump, and Trump himself.
00:09:32
Daithi Flannery
Hmm.
00:09:37
Terry Moran
You would describe them with words that are vivid and intense, right? He's a world-class hater, but palpably true. And I
00:09:48
Daithi Flannery
But it is it it is it is it is kind of a different language that you used.
00:09:53
Terry Moran
Yeah.
00:09:54
Daithi Flannery
It's it's a more like, I know that you are, know if you call someone a fan of law and and you lead read legal papers and you were going to go to law school at one stage before, I i think it was Ireland that changed your mind listening to you, but I don't know.
00:10:05
Terry Moran
what
00:10:09
Daithi Flannery
But yeah.
00:10:11
Daithi Flannery
That legal and and the the media that you're working in it uses a certain type of language. it uses a language that's verifiable, you know, that you can back up later. Whereas the descriptive, almost poetic language that you used in that tweet, it was a little bit different.
00:10:28
Daithi Flannery
ah do you Do you think that there's something ah that's happening right now that can't be described in that legalistic language, that needs poetry?
00:10:36
Terry Moran
Yes. yeah Yes. And I wouldn't have described it that way, da that that's what I was doing. But I kind of felt... that we weren't meeting the moment, that I wasn't meeting the moment, that we have these conventions of language, of, you know, one side, the other side, fact-checking, they actually do pretty well. Of course, it's impossible because the Trump administration fire hose of falsehoods at the country every day, but they do that pretty well.
00:11:07
Terry Moran
it was But the truth isn't just the facts, right? It's it's like it's like what they mean.
00:11:11
Daithi Flannery
Amen.
00:11:13
Terry Moran
And we're all feeling that. Either, hey, yes, smash the the opposition, smash yeah round up those people. The more cruelty, the better. They'll learn a lesson. Silence those people I don't like. Or, my God, what's happening to our to our country?
00:11:28
Terry Moran
This is a moment of crisis. And our coverage did not at ABC. And I, as once again, love the love most of my colleagues there. They do very good work, but it wasn't, it couldn't capture the moment.
00:11:41
Terry Moran
That's exactly what you were saying. And it, and was I conscious that I was frustrated?
00:11:43
Daithi Flannery
Mm-hmm.
00:11:45
Terry Moran
Was that the straw that broke the camel's back that I kind had, I got to say this. I don't know. All I know is that I had, I think Stephen Miller is a malignant force in our country.
00:11:57
Terry Moran
And, um And he's out there every day. And I felt it was right to call him out on it in those words. Did I think I might get in trouble? A couple of things. First, the X algorithm had long ago kind of smashed me down a little bit, i no matter what I put out. Like think literally, it would get like nobody would would see it. But I know how social media works. so I figured this get a little traction.
00:12:21
Terry Moran
ah And then I thought, I actually didn't think. I was quite surprised when they called up the next day and they said, you got to take it down. i said, all right, I'll take. And then they said, and, and you know, you're suspended.
00:12:33
Terry Moran
And i was like, oh, okay. I guess that really ticked them off. I still didn't expect ah you're done, you know.
00:12:40
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:12:40
Terry Moran
um But I actually don't. They do it. It's their policies. It's their business. They want to proceed like that. That's fine. I think it's a dying business, unfortunately, and I'm not glad about that, but I've got what I love to call my inappropriately young children um ah at my age. And so I've got work to do ahead of me.
00:13:05
Terry Moran
And this was gonna be an issue at some point anyway, that ABC was gonna either having less and less impact in the world, me having less and less of a role at ABC, I was thinking, well, what else?
00:13:16
Terry Moran
In other words, this was the best time I could have chosen to get fired in the best possible way. So it's worked out, think.
00:13:22
Daithi Flannery
Yeah. did did it Did it ever cross your mind? Were you ever looking at Substack when you were still with ABC going, you know what, I'd love to have the freedom of Substack there?
00:13:31
Terry Moran
A little bit, but not a sub stack to me before I ah before I joined it and found really ah a community and ah and even a business model that's going to work for me and that I'm enjoying.
00:13:42
Terry Moran
um It was more a place that I did research. There's really smart people out there in law, in You know, I kind of i cover the vatican for covered the Vatican for ABC for a long time. yeah Not there, but they would always send me over for big consistories or when they would when they made saints and such like that and covered the Pope. I met four popes somehow.
00:14:04
Terry Moran
um And so reading in that way was very valuable to me. I didn't think this was my home, but I did think, and you mentioned the Trump interview, that that happened at the end of April.
00:14:16
Terry Moran
And afterwards, it got a bit of buzz, right? It was it was good back and forth. and And I thought, you know, maybe I could do what you're doing, right? Like, maybe I could do this this independent journalism. And in podcasting, whatever, you have your YouTubing, whatever.
00:14:34
Terry Moran
So I called up a guy named Scott Galloway. Have you heard about this guy?
00:14:37
Daithi Flannery
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:38
Terry Moran
Yeah, he's very prominent podcaster and commentator in America. My wife had worked for him years ago. And so I said, so, you know, just did this ah this interview with the president. Things are kind of cooking for me a little bit. What do you think about me heading out there? He said, i'm going to say to you, first off, that over the last six months, I've heard from 12, he said a dozen or so people people who do exactly what you do, including four of your colleagues at ABC, all of them, you would know their names. They're iconic in your business.
00:15:10
Terry Moran
They're all asking
Interview Preparations: Trump vs. Obama
00:15:10
Terry Moran
me the same question. Everybody wants to jump ship. He said, my advice to you is that ah you're going you get a big paycheck from ABC. Hang on to that as long as you can and prepare your next act on the side.
00:15:23
Terry Moran
So when I got fired like three days later and I, and and I said to I said, well, I guess I didn't take your excellent advice. Well,
00:15:30
Daithi Flannery
I think subconsciously maybe you did.
00:15:33
Terry Moran
my I had friends who said you did this on purpose, right? I did not this on purpose. And believe me, this is not the way to do a career change or anything like that. But, you know, yeah you make lemonade out of your lemons.
00:15:46
Daithi Flannery
Of course. ah did The Trump interview. um How long before the interview did you find out you'd be doing it?
00:15:54
Terry Moran
ah About three days. two i was i heard it I heard it on Friday afternoon and went Tuesday morning. So yeah, it's about three days. And I was in Rome covering the funeral of Pope Francis.
00:16:05
Terry Moran
So I had to finish out and that.
00:16:06
Daithi Flannery
Okay.
00:16:07
Terry Moran
happened that was I heard on Friday. The funeral was on Saturday. ah flew back on Sunday and got back, started working on Sunday night, worked Monday, and then sat down the Oval Office with him. So it was pretty intense.
00:16:21
Daithi Flannery
Yeah. Now, you've interviewed many public figures, presidents, etc. What was the the lead up to the Trump interview? What was what was the conversation with your own interlocutor and how might that have been different before you interviewed, say, Obama?
00:16:39
Terry Moran
Oh, that's a great question. Well, I would say Trump is a tough interview, right? um I interviewed Obama eight, 10 times probably over the course of his campaigns and and presidency. Obama was a great interview, sort especially early on, because unlike most American politicians, he actually tried to answer your question.
00:16:59
Terry Moran
He didn't have some canned answer at the ready for every question.
00:16:59
Daithi Flannery
Mm-hmm.
00:17:03
Terry Moran
He's a thoughtful man. ah you know, a canny politician. He was, I'm not saying he was like you and me talking, but it he tried to answer your question. And you could feel the the mind at work and the values at work and all that.
00:17:17
Terry Moran
Trump is a firehose of falsehoods, right? have lies. And he's a a brutish man. And um so preparing for Obama was, you know, what are the most important topics?
00:17:30
Terry Moran
How do we get him to move beyond where he's been, challenge him on things that he's kind of weak on, all that stuff. With Trump is how do we corral him? What is it that we want to do?
00:17:42
Terry Moran
And there were only two or three of us. It was a couple of the most joyful days I had at ABC. Because I was very nervous. I was like, I got a couple of days. i hadn't done a presidential interview in a while. And I had never interviewed Trump.
00:17:56
Terry Moran
And they werere only doing it because some of my colleagues were disqualified because Trump was suing them. so yeah was kind of lower low man on the totem pole there. and They said, Terry, can you do it? I said, yeah, i'll give it try.
00:18:07
Terry Moran
um I just kind of paced around the conference room we were in. And there were literally two, three forums. And just my priorities, don't fight with him. Two, don't ask the questions that Washington once asked, that my colleagues in the press think are the right questions.
00:18:25
Terry Moran
Think of my nine brothers and sisters and and and and the others ah like them around the country. What's the right question for them? And execute on the plan and try to get him to answer.
00:18:38
Terry Moran
Once again, taking trying to take me out of the equation, don't fight with him, treat him respectfully. as the president United States. And I was at some point, other people started in the room, started firing questions at me. The night before, my head was just spaghetti. I i thought I'm not going to be able to do this.
00:18:55
Terry Moran
And I woke up the next morning before I even stirred. I was like, it's there. It's OK. And the rest of the day was a blast. Good preparation, good plan.
00:19:02
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:19:04
Terry Moran
And I had a great time doing it. He didn't, but I did.
00:19:07
Daithi Flannery
Yeah, no, it did. It looked like you were ah enjoying yourself, to be honest. It did. And as you said, it didn't look like he was enjoying himself. Maybe that's why I enjoyed it so much. I'm not sure. But um you didn't let him away with and anything.
00:19:23
Daithi Flannery
And being that the company you were working for was being sued by him. was there Was there any influences on you? Look, don't push him here. Don't say this. Was there any influences at all that were on you saying, be wary, please don't get us another lawsuit?
00:19:42
Terry Moran
I might have proposed a question or two that people said, no, you can't ask. And I i think it happened. I can't remember what it was, Dolly, because I think we were talking and I... I said to him well, let's let's ask him about this. I wish I could remember what it was. And they were like, no. And it wasn't it wasn't the management, although some point management did come in.
00:20:00
Terry Moran
It was the agreed upon realization that that question, I wish, you know, would would just get us down a road that we didn't want to get. You know, a lot of that is just distraction.
00:20:09
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:20:12
Terry Moran
He throws a lot of accusations and sues people all the time just to get the focus off of what he doesn't want to talk about.
00:20:13
Daithi Flannery
yeah
00:20:21
Terry Moran
But no, I didn't feel any kind of interference. As I said, it was pretty, it was really intense, short prep that was a blast because it was rich with possibility and we had to hone it in a way that he gave us 30 minutes. We ended up taking about 35 and make it happen. So I did not feel that.
00:20:44
Terry Moran
I did not feel that. and Maybe i was self-sensing, but I don't think I really want, I'm not quite sure what I would have asked.
Questioning Trump's Associations
00:20:52
Terry Moran
that
00:20:52
Daithi Flannery
what would you What would you ask if you could interview him now on the sub stack that you wouldn't have asked them?
00:20:58
Terry Moran
Well, I didn't, you know, I wasn't that into the Epstein stuff, I must say. But at this point, it's a catalog of evidence that he was part of that.
00:21:09
Daithi Flannery
Yep.
00:21:09
Terry Moran
I now know a name I didn't know at the time, Katie. No, I don't. Katie Porter, I believe she was 14 at the time.
00:21:17
Daithi Flannery
Oh, God.
00:21:17
Terry Moran
Claimed that he was, yeah, assaulted her. and has since committed suicide.
00:21:23
Daithi Flannery
Oh, there's a couple of them ladies that have committed suicide now.
00:21:23
Terry Moran
So, yeah.
00:21:29
Terry Moran
yeah And to confront him with that, because one thing I did learn about him
00:21:29
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:21:35
Terry Moran
He wants to rattle you. He wants to bark at you and he wants to get after you and make you back down or get into a fight, which he's going to win because he's got no boundaries on any of that. about that. um He's got, I wanted to, I saw him over those minute thirty five minutes, 35 minutes, 45 minutes with the walk, walkabout or whatever it was.
00:22:02
Terry Moran
And I actually kind of thought, this guy's not all that tough. He's loud and he'll tear you apart rhetorically. And be and if he if he has power that he can use against you, he'll use it.
00:22:15
Terry Moran
But on a man-to-man level, and look, i that moment he got shot and he rose up and all that, that is an astonishing piece of self-control and self-imagination and all that stuff.
00:22:28
Terry Moran
But I don't think he's, I wasn't afraid of him. think a lot of people get nervous around him.
00:22:34
Daithi Flannery
he's not He's not a he's not a ah scary guy up close. he's not the like ah I recently done a podcast with a psychologist philosopher who who's written books on the path to mass evil and things like that, using Hannah Arendt and the Second World War. and I was wondering if you felt evil from Trump, because what's coming out of the White House now, what the likes of Stephen Miller are doing, some of the policies...
00:23:01
Daithi Flannery
I think they certainly can be described as evil, some of them. But was there an evil vibe there, basically?
00:23:09
Terry Moran
That's a really good question. I agree with you. I think some of the things we're seeing, the cruelty is the point with this administration. And he enjoys it. And
00:23:22
Terry Moran
yeah, I think he's dark. I think he's dark.
00:23:24
Daithi Flannery
Hmm.
00:23:24
Terry Moran
There's something rotten in him right through.
00:23:26
Daithi Flannery
and Yeah.
00:23:27
Terry Moran
He'll lie at any moment. he He'll do anything he takes. He enjoys being a bully, if he can bully. he Not necessarily because I'm any brave guy.
00:23:40
Terry Moran
i just was executing on my plan, having a good time. i wasn't letting him get to me at all. And he didn't know what to do with it. right If he's trapped with him, he can trash you and rip you.
00:23:51
Terry Moran
He can mock you like he mocked that reporter with the with the arm.
00:23:53
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:23:54
Terry Moran
yeah you know He tried at one point. yeah I don't even know who you are. you know, do I care? i mean, i I'm not in middle school anymore.
00:24:00
Daithi Flannery
yeah um
00:24:02
Terry Moran
I mean, I'm i'm i i'm not a teenager. I'm a grown man. i mean, what do I care? You know who I am or not? He may have, may not. and he didn't know what to do with courtesy and respect that wasn't slavering obeisance to him. He didn't know what to do with just somebody who was being decent to him.
00:24:26
Terry Moran
and And think that's his kryptonite actually.
00:24:29
Daithi Flannery
Kill them with kindness we say back here. yeah
00:24:31
Terry Moran
Yeah, I mean, he never once, even after I called him and and the world-class hater and and Stephen Miller, a world-class hater and got fired for it, which you'd think he'd dunk on me.
00:24:32
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:24:47
Terry Moran
After the interview, he he never mentioned me again. now that Not that that sounds like I'm egotistical, but he's out trashing reporters all the time, you know? And i get the feeling like he didn't want anything to do with me again.
00:24:58
Daithi Flannery
Mm-hmm.
00:25:03
Terry Moran
And now he's got his wish.
00:25:03
Daithi Flannery
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah you can still make plenty of noise for him. There was one thing he said to you about Biden and where he accused you of being fake news because he didn't report on biden on Biden's cognitive decline, which it's become clear that he it was there.
00:25:27
Daithi Flannery
Can you tell us anything about that? Did the media know and was the media like, oh, we can't talk against Biden because of the opposition. We just can't let Trump in.
00:25:38
Daithi Flannery
Was there something like that? that I mean, I've heard that Biden was the easiest quote to get for years in Washington.
00:25:45
Terry Moran
yeah yeah
00:25:46
Daithi Flannery
And then all of a sudden he's talking to nobody. All of a sudden he's not talking to Congress people. He's not seen. that wasn't really reported, except by Fox News bombastically and exaggerated.
00:26:01
Daithi Flannery
But is there is the media culpable for that?
00:26:04
Terry Moran
No question about it. No question about it. And this is this is one of the big problems with that mainstream legacy media is there's just not enough dissent. Had there been any actual Trump voter in a position of prime, which there should be, you cover the whole country, you should you should have people reflect the interests and values of the country.
00:26:28
Terry Moran
And I did try. I went on the air once. it was on ah the Sunday show. And I said, i don't think the American people want to vote for somebody who's 81 years old and it's going to be 86th time. And that's a real issue for him. And he's too old. And I said it a few times, and not to tell too many tales of school because I want to, but I did try behind the scenes as well. I said, you know, our standards were you could, you know,
00:26:52
Terry Moran
It needed to be diagnosed was what I was told. I'm saying, not talking about medicine. I'm talking about our families. We all know. We all know.
00:27:00
Daithi Flannery
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:27:01
Terry Moran
We've all been through it. People we love. We know this.
00:27:04
Daithi Flannery
Mm-hmm.
00:27:05
Terry Moran
My mom had Alzheimer's. I mean, now don't think he's got Alzheimer's, but just declined. and And I was like, it seems to me we should take note of the fact that he can't walk up the stairs right anymore.
00:27:18
Terry Moran
That he slurs his words, his voice goes down my screen. That he's clearly confusing one thing. they And at the same time, we were making a big deal when when Trump confused Pelosi with somebody else. And that was like that was on our news program at the time.
00:27:36
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:27:37
Terry Moran
And Biden, I think he called he talked about Helmut Kohl. He talked about dead people. Do you remember that? he like talked but well He talked to about people who were dead, as if as if they were he was the current chancellor of Germany.
00:27:45
Daithi Flannery
yeah
00:27:47
Daithi Flannery
yeah
00:27:51
Terry Moran
Crickets from the news media from the established news media. Yes, that is a colossal error. And it was, i mean, I guess it was because they were afraid it would help Trump. I don't know. I never heard anything about the editorial decision, except these are delicate issues. Fair enough.
00:28:10
Terry Moran
ah Diagnoses are absolutely really important. And that's when I was like, every single American looks at him and knows exactly what they're seeing.
Biden's Cognitive Decline and Media Reluctance
00:28:19
Terry Moran
i was
00:28:19
Daithi Flannery
Absolutely.
00:28:20
Terry Moran
I went on a trip with Biden to Japan the previous years, that would have been 2023. And I thought, well, you know, had a 40-minute press conference on what was discussed over there. And, you know, that's he always loved foreign policy. So he was okay. He was good.
00:28:38
Terry Moran
went up the stairs pretty well at that time. But I remember thinking to myself, this is he's clearly in decline since the last time I'd seen him, kind of eyeballed him up close, not on TV. how we His gait, his hands, expression in his face, all that.
00:28:53
Terry Moran
And I thought that would have been, i think like April, May of 2023. And I thought he should drive, I said, somebody somebody who loves him is gonna say at the Christmas holiday or Thanksgiving holiday in America,
00:29:06
Terry Moran
you know, honey, let's let's call it a day, you know? And instead they did the opposite, it turned out.
00:29:10
Daithi Flannery
Yeah. Hmm.
00:29:14
Terry Moran
and No, you can.
00:29:14
Daithi Flannery
I think that, I think that's what everybody was expecting, especially when, when he said he was going to run again, it's like, okay, he can maybe finish out the first term, but, but you can't let him run again.
00:29:25
Daithi Flannery
you know, that's, that's what was really scary. Uh, to be honest, it was, yeah, it's, and I, and I think that done a lot to harm the trust in the media.
00:29:35
Daithi Flannery
I really do. I really do.
00:29:35
Terry Moran
Yeah.
00:29:37
Terry Moran
Yeah, and frankly, you know
00:29:37
Daithi Flannery
Um,
00:29:40
Terry Moran
There was an attitude about Trump from the get-go, okay? From the from the night that Trump... So I was living in London at the time. I was the chief foreign correspondent, but they brought me back in 2016 to cover the election because I'd done a lot of them.
00:29:56
Terry Moran
And I had a great job. dave I could go anywhere I want, do any story I want and and sell it to you know whomever. So I was around for six four six weeks before the election. I got back to the New York City offices of ABC News.
00:30:10
Terry Moran
And I said, yeah, I think he's going to win. And they were like, no, no way. and And it was like Brexit. I'd covered Brexit, right? So it was you got you got a certain distance away from a major city and it was like hitting a wall.
00:30:23
Terry Moran
You just knew it. You could feel it. Now Brexit, I didn't know all. I was shocked by Brexit. But Trump, you could feel. Also, I thought Hillary was a bad candidate. I couldn't figure out what she was campaigning on.
00:30:35
Terry Moran
And so i was I thought, yeah, he's he's going to win. and the night it went The night it happened, I was on TV with the ABC team. We're all sitting around talking about it.
00:30:47
Terry Moran
Everybody's so depressed. Like literally, somebody cried on the air about it. I mean, come on. And so I kind of perked up. I said, look, there's really good news here. He brought a lot of people in who'd given up on democracy.
00:31:02
Terry Moran
They hadn't voted in a long time or didn't think their votes mattered. This is their moment. It works for them. They wanted to take a slap at the establishment and they did and it worked for them. That's good, you know.
00:31:14
Terry Moran
And for the first term, it was... the coverage was completely imbalanced. He wasn't that exceptional a president in that first term. He was held back. He didn't really know what he wanted to do.
00:31:28
Terry Moran
wasn't that competent. He did a lot of mean tweets, and they used to you know lead the news. And I lost stories there because I went back in 2018. They'd send me over to the White House, and they want me to do a story on a mean tweet. And i said, we're covering the Trump show.
00:31:42
Terry Moran
We should cover the Trump presidency. All right. So they Then he wins. And now it's kind of, I think it's too deferential the other way. In 2024, he wins. i think it's too deferential in the other way because it's like, oh.
00:31:55
Terry Moran
So I think we got to just play straight.
00:31:59
Daithi Flannery
Yeah, but it's it's it it shows the media leaning into the power. You know, now now they are leaning into ah Trump, that that kind of power a little bit. it's a It really does show that out that power really does control the media. I mean, um
00:32:19
Daithi Flannery
big pharma and companies like that, i mean, they're not talked about half enough in America. The damage that they do is not talked about half enough. And I was actually just watching one of your interviews earlier, and it had the ad still on the YouTube.
00:32:36
Daithi Flannery
And it was advertising medicine, pharmaceutical products.
00:32:40
Terry Moran
you I just set that thing up. So they must think, okay, well, he's news.
00:32:42
Daithi Flannery
but
00:32:44
Terry Moran
It'll be old people watching. I don't know. Whatever.
00:32:46
Daithi Flannery
No, but no but no not no not one ah it was one of your older interviews with ABC. yeah But it's just, i don't I don't know that Americans know how strange that is to other people around the world when they see pharmaceuticals being advertised on telly.
00:33:01
Daithi Flannery
It's insanity. how can How can that be allowed?
00:33:06
Terry Moran
It is insanity. And there are proposals to ban them.
00:33:08
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:33:10
Terry Moran
Okay. And and they they come from both you know really progressive people on the Bernie Sanders wing and and people on the populist ah Trump wing. And that power that they have to you know talk to your doctor and you know they make an enormous and obscene amount of money. People can't afford the the medicines a lot.
00:33:32
Terry Moran
And They get to kind of get people on them. Maybe they mean need made them. Maybe they don't. Maybe if you took a walk a little bit more, you wouldn't be dependent on the medication. Plenty of people need a lot of medicines, but I'm just saying there's other ways.
00:33:45
Daithi Flannery
Mm-hmm.
00:33:46
Terry Moran
All this stuff is out there. and And that is what the next winning coalition is going to be. American politics in jumble. The populist... card has been there to pick up for anyone, right?
00:34:00
Terry Moran
A billionaire's tax or, you know, like Elizabeth Warren had, you know, get after the big pharmaceuticals, make housing more affordable. People can't afford to buy homes in the United States.
00:34:11
Terry Moran
There are issues that you that would unite these people were at each other's throats, partly because there are a lot of people making a lot of money making Americans angry at each other.
00:34:20
Daithi Flannery
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:20
Terry Moran
And there is, i think, a genuine populist. Bernie tapped into it. Trump then tapped into it, even though he's a ah ah you know a charlatan when it comes to genuine populist economics. But people feel like it's not going to be that technocratic Obama, Clinton era, where the rich seem to get richer and and i can't if my kid can't afford a house or whatever.
00:34:46
Terry Moran
That is there. that That is an avenue that can easily be seized by anyone with the kind of program that you're talking about. Big corporations, the the rich getting richer, real genuine opportunity for people to have a better life.
00:35:01
Terry Moran
This place I'm in right now, this is a 98-year-old cottage in northern Michigan ah built by my my father-in-law's grandparents back in the nineteen twenty s This, and it's on a lovely lake up here, and this place, this used to be middle-class life in America, right?
00:35:21
Terry Moran
You know, it's not winterized. It's not luxury. It's not a second home. It's a proper cottage in the woods. And people used to be able to be on the assembly line and in Detroit or whatever and make enough money to have this and put a boat in the water and go fishing when they want.
00:35:39
Terry Moran
All that is gone. All of that is long gone. And we're a people that are not going to accept decline. That's the secret to Trump. He said, decline is over with me.
00:35:52
Terry Moran
We're going to make it great again.
00:35:54
Daithi Flannery
Yeah, yeah, that that that's ah ah to be honest, I think a lot about the environment.
Climate Change and Political Inaction
00:36:01
Daithi Flannery
I think a lot about climate change. um I've written a bit and then studied and stuff about that. And what broke my heart and made me roll up my papers and throw them over my shoulder.
00:36:13
Daithi Flannery
was drill baby drill this whole idea all that climate change is rubbish let's just drill baby drill energy let's go back to the good old days the gilded age when everything was good for five percent of people um and that's very worrying I remember it was about maybe
00:36:15
Terry Moran
Mm-hmm.
00:36:36
Daithi Flannery
eight, ten years ago that I was listening to noam Chomsky speak. And I thought he was being hyperbolic at the time when he was asked, what do you think is the biggest threat to organized human life on this planet?
00:36:50
Daithi Flannery
And his answer was the Republican Party.
00:36:53
Daithi Flannery
And I thought at the time, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I don't think that anymore. I think he might be right. think he might have been right. um And that's scary.
00:37:06
Daithi Flannery
What do you think happens in the next election cycle? Who do you think or what do you think who can beat Trump? because he's got the biggest name recognition.
00:37:16
Terry Moran
and
00:37:18
Daithi Flannery
i' i I've never thought he's going to hand over power. It's going to be a peaceful transition unless he can get one of his sons in there or something like that. So I do think he's going to try and run again.
00:37:28
Terry Moran
I do too. He's now disavowing it because the polls are so against it. But I think he's just set it aside and he'll plot how to get around the constitutional prohibition on a third term. He will.
00:37:40
Terry Moran
And he'll trash the Constitution in order to hold on to power, depending on his health. Right. And he's we're learning more that he has some of the normal ailments of of old age.
00:37:52
Terry Moran
So I did want to say one thing about about the climate stuff, though. Biden was a man. ah covered him. started I first interviewed up Joe Biden in 1987, so I knew him a long time.
00:38:06
Terry Moran
And he was a guy, classic legislator. He was a creature of the Congress, of the United States Senate. And he thought the way to fix Trumpism was to show people that government can make positive change, put people back to work and all that stuff. And so he passed some very big bills that were also future oriented.
00:38:27
Terry Moran
The CHIPS Act that was supposed to, that will apparently improve America's position on that issue. And huge climate bill that was aimed at transforming the American economy, making the United States a leader in green industries.
00:38:40
Terry Moran
Trump basically zeroed that out in this budget that they just signed. And the Democrats, and the Biden administration couldn't get any of it done. They were supposed to, example, the I own and an electric car.
00:38:53
Terry Moran
They were supposed to cede the country with charging stations. They hadn't built a one. They had not built a one. Okay. And it was a 300 and some billion dollar bill. And they had not built a single charger.
00:39:06
Terry Moran
The incompetence of government is one of the things that has people frustrated. So how do you beat Trump? I think Trump will help to beat himself. He's a like all authoritarians.
00:39:19
Terry Moran
He wants easy money. He wants cheap money, right? He wants to debauch the currency. He's already talking about firing the chairman of the Federal Reserve. That'll send inflation up and that will demoralize people. um But what on the positive side would, I think that the Democrat that wins,
00:39:37
Terry Moran
against Trump or Trumpism is the Democrat that rebels against the Democratic Party first. and says to, and and angers Democratic leaders, is a danger to dema to the Democratic Party, kind of like Trump was in a positive way, but says, your time is over.
00:39:55
Terry Moran
You sold us out, right? You got obsessed with cultural issues that don't matter to a lot of people. You missed the boat on economics, the rich got richer. and you've You've essentially turned the Democratic Party into party of the university class and the professional classes.
00:40:11
Terry Moran
The Democrats lost working people for the first time in my lifetime. They lost working people. And I think there's going to have to be somebody like this Mamdani guy in in New York who captures.
00:40:22
Daithi Flannery
um
00:40:25
Terry Moran
Now, that's New York City. It's a hardcore Democratic city, although a lot less so than it used to be because they're seen as the part of the elite. But he's, you know, he's got to get young. He's got energy.
00:40:37
Terry Moran
He's got new ideas about leveling the playing field, like giving people opportunities that have been stolen from them, they think. And so they get frustrated and and angry and they start blaming the other and falling for Trump's populist, you know, trash. And at the end of the day, I think that's the person. Are there any on the horizon?
00:40:58
Terry Moran
and don't see any.
00:41:00
Daithi Flannery
will will will somebody Will somebody be let do that? I mean, was but Bernie was cut down before it when he tried to do that.
00:41:06
Terry Moran
Yeah, was.
00:41:06
Daithi Flannery
in a way and Yeah, so so I worry about Mandani or somebody else coming up.
00:41:07
Terry Moran
Yeah.
00:41:12
Daithi Flannery
And there's going to be a big body politic and the in the Democratic Party that's going to close them down, I feel, if they're not playing the game for the rich people.
00:41:24
Terry Moran
yeah
00:41:24
Daithi Flannery
thats That's what worries me.
00:41:26
Terry Moran
That's electoral disaster for them if they're seen as blocking some of these. Look, I think one thing the Democrats could and should completely rally around that would put the Republicans on their back foot.
00:41:40
Terry Moran
So at the end of the 18th century, beginning the 19th century, beginning of the 19th 20th century. beginning the twentieth century There were tycoons, right? John D. Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie and all the robber barons and all the rest of it.
00:41:49
Daithi Flannery
Thank you.
00:41:53
Terry Moran
And their money couldn't be touched because the Constitution prohibited an and income tax. And so the people said, well, we we can't have that. I mean, at the time, John D. Rockefeller owned like 4% of the wealth of the world or something like it was. It was in insane.
00:42:10
Terry Moran
And so they passed the constitutional amendment. We need a constitutional amendment now on wealth taxes because or or to explode the tax code because the tax code no longer reaches the wealthiest Americans. Not even close, right?
00:42:25
Terry Moran
So Elizabeth Warren and others say, let's pass a constitutional amendment. She doesn't think it needs one. I do think it needs needs one, but that's good. That'd get people going, you know?
00:42:33
Daithi Flannery
Mm-hmm.
00:42:34
Terry Moran
Who doesn't believe that somebody with a net worth over $50 million dollars could pay a little bit more?
00:42:43
Daithi Flannery
um Peter Thiel, Marc Andreessen, Curtis Yarvin, Elon Musk, none of them guys think they should be paying that money. And they've got this, like, ah don't think Trump is
00:42:55
Daithi Flannery
He's got some sort of reptilian kind of intelligence. You know, he's he's a hawkster, like, you know, and he's and he is good at that.
00:42:58
Terry Moran
Right.
00:43:03
Daithi Flannery
But the likes of Peter Thiel, Mark Andrees, and Khrushchev, and the people I've mentioned, they do have a philosophy that they're building. And it's an anti-democratic philosophy, where they're going to be the ah tech monarchs that the rest of us have to follow to Mars or wherever the hell they they're thinking about going.
00:43:21
Daithi Flannery
um Do you worry about that, about the about the tech oligarchs that are there now and the power that they have? And not just the power that they have financially or within the government, but the power that they have to influence the public, influence public decisions.
00:43:35
Terry Moran
A lot. I worry about that a lot, Di, because these guys, first, they have amassed this power.
00:43:38
Daithi Flannery
Mm-hmm.
00:43:42
Terry Moran
You know, they basically benefited from the network effect. They were the first in a space to do X, Y, or Z digitally. And since they were the first there, boom, up there, you know, they they've I'm sure they made smart business decisions along the way. And you're right, they're all very socially connected.
00:43:58
Terry Moran
a lot of their ideas are socially destructive. They don't kind of believe in society. They believe in themselves and all the rest of it. The other reason I worry about them is
00:44:11
Terry Moran
Politics and self-government is about people who know something about each other, really. You know what i mean? It's a people business.
00:44:19
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:44:19
Terry Moran
it's It's knowing the good ones and the bad ones in some ways. They get people. They understand. They have either empathy or the kind of huckster instinct.
00:44:30
Terry Moran
They're deeply humane, right? It's a people business. These are the biggest nerds at every school they ever went to. These were the guys who people, bullies might pick on.
00:44:38
Daithi Flannery
yeah
00:44:41
Terry Moran
And while that's very, very wrong, you could see the point with Mark Zuckerberg or Peter Thiel. I mean, you you wouldn't do it and you wouldn't approve of it. But these are the people who were the least connected.
00:44:53
Terry Moran
They're weirdos.
00:44:54
Daithi Flannery
Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:55
Terry Moran
They have weird ideas. And they have no... parent connection to the notion, the very simple human understanding of a community.
00:45:06
Terry Moran
We're all weirdo libertarian, unran libertarians that have no vision for us together.
00:45:09
Daithi Flannery
ye
00:45:14
Daithi Flannery
Well, the vision they have is ah is a ah techno-modernist vision. you know so So I think they do have an organized plan, and it does involve all of us, but it's just a future that none of us want to live in, I don't think, except them.
00:45:30
Daithi Flannery
And they' they've been brought up in and playing video games and reading sci-fi novels, and this is the future that they see. I don't mind people thinking like that, except when they have huge influence and huge power.
00:45:45
Daithi Flannery
That means we're all we're all in danger of ending up in that future. um So, yeah, I guess I just wanted to highlight those those those tech oligarchs because I think it is a really, really big worry.
00:45:53
Terry Moran
Yeah.
00:45:57
Daithi Flannery
um Also,
00:45:58
Terry Moran
Well, and you see also, Dahi, that they didn't believe in anything they claimed to believe, right? When it was fashionable for them to be, i don't know, pro-LGBTQ, pro-diversity policies, pro-equalizing or trying to help the poor, they were all, they they they claimed that they were all on board and that this is their mission in life. And like that,
00:46:25
Terry Moran
They're like, no, we can get a lot more money if we screw everybody else. And now all that stuff is gone. they they They pretended that was those were their values and their ideals. And now zip just 180 degrees because power went the other way.
00:46:39
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:46:39
Terry Moran
So i don't know that that describes to me. Either a weak person or a bad person or both.
00:46:47
Daithi Flannery
Yeah. Yeah. ah yeah I totally agree. it's a It's a scary time. i wonder, does you might be able to tell me this.
00:46:55
Terry Moran
Thank you.
00:46:56
Daithi Flannery
Do Americans realize the place they have in the world, the the trust that that the rest of the world has as put in them. I mean, since World War II, and I know American exceptionalism, it's like we protect the world and, you know, we we saved everybody in all the wars, which we can go through. he actually didn't put you out.
00:47:22
Daithi Flannery
But it's a trust that has been given to America. It's not, you know, it's it's a faith that has been given to America because of the values and the ideals that have at least purported to being what you wanted to give
US Democracy and Global Impact
00:47:36
Daithi Flannery
the world.
00:47:37
Daithi Flannery
You know, and in large extent you have in a lot of places, but in a lot of places you haven't and you've acted opposite to your ideals.
00:47:49
Daithi Flannery
But when I see democracy failing or in trouble in America, I mean, okay, it was European i ideas that traveled to America and created that, but it was America that cashed it out, you know, that that that built the democracy and and the rest of the democracies around the world, including our old one, is almost modeled almost on the American system.
00:48:15
Daithi Flannery
So when we see that in trouble, we're not just a scared We're not just afraid because ah Trump is like threatening to not go in for Article 5 and he's saying, well, we might not save them. We'll see. We'll see.
00:48:32
Daithi Flannery
But I think we're afraid because if that democracy fails, then it's very likely to be a domino effect on other democracies around the world. And you're already seeing other democracies acting in similar ways to how the Trump administration is acting.
00:48:49
Daithi Flannery
um
00:48:49
Terry Moran
Yeah.
00:48:50
Daithi Flannery
to america ah do Americans realize the trust the world has in them? Do they do they realize the the the place they have?
00:48:57
Terry Moran
Some, but I would say not most because, you know, most Americans, even in this day and age, will never leave the United States. I didn't see another country until I was 22 years old.
00:49:11
Terry Moran
And that was Ireland. um I've seen a lot since then, but that I'd never been out of the country, not even to Canada. I only lived, know, didn't live that far from there. So most Americans still to this day don't live now.
00:49:25
Terry Moran
And that's one of the reasons we're getting in this reaction to this large tide of immigrants that have come in the last 10, 20 years. The vast majority of them peaceful and trying to be contributors to to this country and to see them snatched off the streets by masked gunmen is just a heartbreaking thing.
00:49:44
Terry Moran
They're innocent people. As far as the criminal law, they will have come here unlawfully and there may be things to do there, but I don't think Americans, I think Americans don't understand in a weird way the the role that that the United States plays in keeping those values and and that system that tries to, you know, haltingly, failingly sometimes tries to advance them.
00:50:12
Terry Moran
I don't think they understand. There's tremendous resentment. One thing, if over the years, long as I've known it, pollsters would ask Americans, what percentage of the federal budget goes to foreign aid?
00:50:24
Terry Moran
And it was before Trump, like two, maybe a tiny, tiny percent. And people would regularly say 20, 30, 30 percent of the budget. You know, they they had no idea that really for a very, very, very small ask, very small price, the United States was able to do good things around the world and to spread the values that we used to profess, that we failed to live up to as everybody does in their own personal lives and as every country always has, but that we wanted to see in the world.
00:50:58
Terry Moran
I don't think but most Americans understood that. Trump addressed a cartoon version of the U.S. and the world. They're ripping us off. They're all losers and ripping us off.
00:51:11
Terry Moran
And they're commies and all the lowest common denominator.
00:51:12
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:51:16
Terry Moran
And I think that's the way he looks at the world, understanding of the world. And everything's transactional from him. I mean, everything in life for Trump, for Trump, people and countries are divided into two kinds.
00:51:29
Terry Moran
There are the ones who are getting screwed and the ones who are doing the screwing. And he knows who he wants to be. He has no understanding of any kind of actual relationship that can be mutually beneficial, that can advance mutual interests. he's and And I think in that he reflects the isolationist element in America that's always there by its nature because people, I lived ah lived like 800 miles or whatever from the nearest border and was Canada.
00:52:02
Terry Moran
A lot of people live thousands of miles from the nearest international border, and they have no idea kind of what to what the world is like.
00:52:13
Terry Moran
They only see what they see on in Hollywood and on the news and that that will impact them. And so I think it's kind of sad that and this has been said before we bore this. We have.
00:52:24
Terry Moran
born this very important role, played this very important role in the world, blindly at times, stumbling into Vietnam and, you know, we're gonna turn Iraq into Vermont in terms of New Hampshire, in terms of democracy there. People had no a clue that people went there didn't have a clue. They were quite earnest, though.
00:52:44
Daithi Flannery
Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:45
Terry Moran
Some of the people who went, some of people died, aid workers, had no idea what the nature of that culture was. And thought, well, we're Americans here.
00:52:52
Daithi Flannery
yeah
00:52:55
Terry Moran
You're going to want this. So for all those failings, that at least was an effort.
00:52:57
Daithi Flannery
yeah
00:52:59
Terry Moran
I think Trump touches something right now. The United States, the people of the United States, I would say a majority of them are like, our life has declined. We don't want to talk about the rest of the world until we get this place straightened down, I think.
00:53:13
Daithi Flannery
Yeah, but but they forget it's that we're we're we're in such an interdependent global economy and global world. Now we've increased our our means of transportation so much, our means of shipping goods around the world, our means of transporting money, our means of communication. Me and you are thousands of miles away now talking instantly to each other.
00:53:31
Daithi Flannery
um That isolationism is crazy in that environment that that ye have made.
00:53:36
Terry Moran
Yeah.
00:53:38
Daithi Flannery
You know what I mean? It's... a ah Okay, a couple of last questions, Terry, because I'm going to let you go
Ireland's Influence on Moran
00:53:43
Daithi Flannery
then. But ah was it 1982 you came to Ireland?
00:53:48
Terry Moran
Yeah, yeah. yeah
00:53:49
Daithi Flannery
and And you, yeah, you you you stayed in a place that that's not far from where I'm sitting right now in Ballyconnealy.
00:53:49
Terry Moran
Fall of 19th.
00:53:57
Daithi Flannery
and And back then, the the the picture of the world had of America was very different. And any American that landed here was like, oh, great, you know what i mean? You're great. But... but ah yeah at the But the biggest movies around then were like Tootsie and Rocky and Rambo. You know, it was it was a different picture the world was getting of America.
00:54:19
Daithi Flannery
But you said in other interviews that you had been thinking about going to law school. but Then you took a year out and you went traveling. Ireland was one of the places and Ballyconnely you stayed for a lot of that time.
00:54:33
Daithi Flannery
Was there something about your time in Ballyconnely that was formative, that changed you, that that made you think, i actually want to be a journalist? And if so, can you tell us about that?
00:54:43
Terry Moran
You know, I've never thought of it that way, but I had spent year. It was a hard year. my My father died just right right as I came, actually. I turned around go back.
00:54:54
Terry Moran
But um I spent the year there, and it was really my first. I'd been on the school newspaper and all that stuff, but it was really my first. and The West of Ireland at that point, Balak-Nelie at that point, 1982. was there fellowship.
00:55:09
Terry Moran
i was there i was there on a fellowship that I'd gotten from the founder of IBM set up these fellowships, go anywhere in the world for college graduates, do anything you wanna do, we'll fund it, they gave me some money.
00:55:22
Terry Moran
And there's only one condition, you cannot engage in a formal course of study, you can't go to school. So it's gotta be someplace, out in the world. So i my my proposal was to ah look at economic development,
00:55:37
Terry Moran
with an emphasis on foreign capital investment in the traditionally rural counties of Western Ireland. Well, I got there in the fall of 1982 to discover there was no economic development. with I mean, um there was some.
00:55:48
Terry Moran
There was some. Not much, though. There a point.
00:55:51
Daithi Flannery
and They were putting an extension on the pub.
00:55:51
Terry Moran
there's a
00:55:53
Daithi Flannery
That was it.
00:55:56
Terry Moran
And so ah I did, I did learned a lot about that. There was Fieldcrest was in Kilala in Mayo and there were a few other, there i think ah digital was already in Galway.
00:56:06
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:56:06
Terry Moran
Galway already had kind of pharmaceuticals and digital economy start, just starting at that point. It kind of interesting, but I was out in Valley Keneally. That was like going back in time, right? And I got to be good friends with some people out there, dear friends.
00:56:18
Terry Moran
And um what it was, I guess, thinking of your question, It made me more curious about the world. It made me more curious about people not like me.
00:56:31
Terry Moran
It made me so passionately curious because at one and the same time, ah could see in some of the Irish fellas that I got to know like echoes of my own family and my own upbringing, but not too. So uh the values were different it was also at a time when reagan was president he was not particularly popular with a lot of people in ireland and so there was that as well but mostly it was a way of life out there that was very very different people with different ways of looking at the world and values the challenges they faced some some of my friends were very poor fact you know
00:57:09
Daithi Flannery
Absolutely. There was a, if I go out there and all, and know a lot of people who go out there, they'll they'll ask me a question and they won't say, where are you from? They'll say, who do you belong to?
00:57:21
Daithi Flannery
you know, exactly like, where's your roots? Do you know ah who who your people? Another way they put it. um Will you ever ask that question out there? Do you have, do you have roots in the West of Ireland with a name like Moran?
00:57:35
Terry Moran
I do. Marin, as they say, right? So yes, uh, my father's family was from County Mayo.
00:57:37
Daithi Flannery
That's
00:57:43
Terry Moran
Um, and my mother's from also mayor Westport. So my mom is, my mom had her mom was Irish. My dad's all four, all, all his family were Irish. Uh, and my, my mom's family is from Westport.
00:57:57
Daithi Flannery
I was there yesterday.
00:57:57
Terry Moran
Um, where are you Beautiful town.
00:57:59
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:58:00
Terry Moran
At least as I remember it.
00:58:00
Daithi Flannery
yeah
00:58:01
Terry Moran
And I've been back two or three times since, uh,
00:58:04
Daithi Flannery
It is beautiful.
00:58:05
Terry Moran
But I do remember, here's a story. So I was out on Ackle Island, I'm pretty sure it was off of Mayo, for Easter once.
00:58:09
Daithi Flannery
Yeah.
00:58:12
Terry Moran
Went to mass. I was with a German friend. We were hosteling. And there's a little pub right by the lighthouse, was at at that time. And um sheets of rain come and everybody goes in for a pint after the mass.
00:58:26
Terry Moran
Door opens. kind of It sounds like a movie scene. The wind blows it over. In steps this fella and the bartender, who, by the way, when I went up to get something to drink, he'd said, where are you from? And I'd said, outside of Chicago. says, where? I said, Barrington. says, what street?
00:58:43
Terry Moran
he He had driven a truck for a grocer, went right by my house for number of years, made some money, bought the pub. Anyway, it was his brother walks in the room. Place goes silent because everybody knows.
00:58:54
Terry Moran
Hadn't seen him in years. Comes out from behind the bar. They look at each other say, hey, How doing? Shake hands. None of this, like, you know there isn there you know what if you know, you know what I'm talking about.
00:59:05
Daithi Flannery
yeah
00:59:06
Terry Moran
i know. It's Six Brothers.
00:59:06
Daithi Flannery
ah
00:59:07
Terry Moran
We do that, right? As I said, echoes. And then everybody goes back to and the and the and the guy, the brother came in. these god's might eat takes out He takes pipes. Like, what do you call them? Those Irish pipes.
00:59:20
Daithi Flannery
like a smoking pipe
00:59:21
Terry Moran
Pipes. No, no, no. Like bagpipe.
00:59:23
Daithi Flannery
oh okay yeah well it would be it would be bagpipes then yeah
00:59:27
Terry Moran
Yeah. And he starts playing. That's when I look at the at the bartender and he's and he's crying. Right. and ah And I remember thinking, well, this is something I've never really experienced, you know, and ah and I think if there was something that that Ireland gave me, gave me a lot.
00:59:46
Terry Moran
You know, what I said was a hard year.
00:59:50
Terry Moran
It was that sense that when I came home, I didn't want to go to law school. I wanted to travel the world, have somebody pay me and I could write about it or do whatever. And i and actually i got to do that. So I'm very, very lucky.
01:00:03
Daithi Flannery
That's great. That's great. One thing I love about Ireland is that when someone starts singing in a pub, everybody shuts up.
01:00:10
Terry Moran
Yeah.
01:00:11
Daithi Flannery
I love it. I love it. Even if they're bad singers, it doesn't matter. Let them finish the song, even if they're making the hams of it, you know? but ah Okay, last question, Terry. I ask it to all my guests.
Humanity's Relationship with Earth
01:00:22
Daithi Flannery
um if we had a clean slate and we were rewriting what it is to be human on this earth and you could add one sentence to that new story, what would it be?
01:00:38
Terry Moran
To the new story of what it means to be human.
01:00:41
Terry Moran
So much of what what it means to be human is already pretty beautiful, I think. I'm i'm a glass half full guy generally, but let me see. I would say... Well,
01:00:51
Terry Moran
I'll come back to to your point.
01:00:53
Terry Moran
Being human means being in love with the earth. and being a good steward of it
01:01:01
Daithi Flannery
Beautiful. I love that one, Terry. I love that one. um Thank you so much for your time, Terry. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. um
01:01:08
Terry Moran
Love it.
01:01:10
Daithi Flannery
And folks, I'm Dai. This has been Terry Moran on Philosophicary. Bye-bye now.
01:01:17
Terry Moran
Thanks.