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Ep 07- Accessible Happiness - Dogs with Duvay Dave
14 Plays11 months ago
In this episode Duvay Dave the dog guy, leaves some wisdom for us about dogs. We discuss some tips on training, insightful ways to keep your dog stimulated, good and bad habits, what to do before you get a dog, what to expect from different breeds., the XL Bully ban, and more.
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Transcript
Introduction to Philosophagory
00:00:01
philosophecker
Hello listeners, and welcome to Philosopheckery
Meet Duvet Dave
00:00:06
philosophecker
Today we have a man called Duvet Dave, and he's a dog guy.
Working with Dogs: Host and Dave's Journey
00:00:12
philosophecker
um Me and Dave first met about eight years ago. At the time I was working with dogs, Dave was really interested in getting into working with dogs. um and so So we talked about that a bit, but I went down the psychology philosophy route and Dave went down the dog roof. So it'll be gonna be interesting to hear what Dave has to say. and And hopefully he can give some tips out there to listeners who want their dogs to behave well and who are worried that they're doing things wrong with their dogs. So hopefully we can provide some tips here for you. How are you keeping Dave?
00:00:53
dave
I'm well, man. Thanks very much. Thanks for having me on. You know, um, it's, uh, any, any way to get kind of a little bit of more information to people with dogs or people with pops or people that are thinking about getting dogs.
00:00:56
philosophecker
It's a pleasure.
00:01:06
dave
Um, yeah, I'm all for people having more information on it. Like, you know, um, there's a lot of the time you can go into it with just the idea of let's get a puppy and bring some happiness into our lives.
00:01:11
philosophecker
Yeah, yeah, it's...
00:01:17
dave
And then six months down the line without any.
00:01:18
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:01:21
dave
proper interactions and stuff for training the puppy is hard work like, you know, and and and not bringing the joy that they were thinking like.
00:01:26
philosophecker
It is, absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely.
The Story of 'Duvet Dave'
00:01:31
philosophecker
ah Before we get into that, Dave, I have a question for you.
00:01:39
philosophecker
Duvet Dave is one of the coolest nicknames I've ever heard. How did that come up? It's one of the nicknames that I'm thinking some genius came up with that some night or something and it stuck.
00:01:48
dave
i but
00:01:49
philosophecker
Where where where did it come from?
00:01:49
dave
but Yeah, it is. um It's a quite, quite a long time ago now. um And to be honest, if you're from Galway, maybe you've heard a different version of the story because I've i've told a couple, but like I've said at times, awful my my grandfather is French and it's a duvet, you know what I mean? And that i the actual thing was what you'd expect. I was wrapped up in a duvet, but this is at about six o'clock in the morning when, you know, when, when that was a time to still be awake.
00:02:21
dave
um So, yeah, I loved my comfort. We were kind of winding down and somebody had the idea to go to the the playground. And we said, yeah, that's a great idea. I just heard a little wander around, you know, because it was a lovely morning and I brought the duvet with me. And then but whilst I was sitting on the swings wrapped up in the duvet, somebody goes, duvet! And then that was the was the beginning of the moniker.
00:02:45
philosophecker
but That was it. it's ah it's It's a great one. It's a cracker. Legend to whoever was there was the fellow who shouted it across.
00:02:49
dave
yeah
00:02:52
philosophecker
But yeah there's plenty of bad ones going on.
00:02:53
dave
yeah Yeah, I'm lucky that I got a good one.
Dogs: Companionship and Daily Routines
00:02:59
dave
very long
00:03:02
philosophecker
So what got you interested in dogs, Dave? Why dogs?
00:03:05
dave
um I spoke basically, man, pure and simple. It's the ah happiness of just hanging around with dogs. You know what I mean? And anybody that has dogs or people that love dogs or whatever, they'll understand what that means. It's just like, they're They're your friends, they're your buddies, they're your family members, you know what I mean? And even when I worked in doggy daycares and you could have 50 or 60 dogs in a place and you have your your ones that you get on better with and other ones that kind of you don't vibe as well with.
00:03:24
philosophecker
Hmm.
00:03:36
dave
So they're just little little beings that really want to like you and really want you to like them. And then there's this sharing of like, well, I'll give you a robe or we'll play a bit together and The dog loves that, and I love that. So it's just this really accessible happiness, I suppose.
00:03:55
philosophecker
That's a lovely way to put it. Yeah, and an accessible happiness. And yeah, it seems to be all dogs want is a bit of joy and a bit of love and a bit of comfort most of the time, you know? And a terrible that's all right.
00:04:06
dave
Just in case I get distracted, when ah my two are here. So Lola needs a bit of attention right now. So that's what's going on there. and yeah
00:04:17
philosophecker
So ah what is it you do with dogs then? but Like ah at the moment, what are you doing with dogs?
00:04:22
dave
Well, right now right now and for the last like two years or so, I walk dogs um and last year I did a dog training course, so I do some training as well. um So basically my day is I'll drive into town, maybe around 10am, 11am, I'll pick up five dogs and then we'll go for a walk.
00:04:36
philosophecker
okay
00:04:46
dave
um different places, usually Merlin Woods or the the Meadows in Merlin. Oh, no, I shouldn't have said that. ah
00:04:54
philosophecker
That's fine.
00:04:55
dave
it's yeah it's it's ah It's a lovely place to go.
00:04:58
philosophecker
It's beautiful, yeah.
00:04:59
dave
The people who do bring their dogs there are lovely as well. Do you know what I mean? There's a lot of good, you know, yeah you make friends with people that be walking their dog the same time every day and stuff, you know.
Interacting with Dogs and Dog Walkers
00:05:08
philosophecker
And do people, win when people see you now coming along, because you you often have a good few dogs with you, how do they respond?
00:05:08
dave
So that'll be it.
00:05:17
philosophecker
Is it always a good response?
00:05:20
dave
Well, let's say the first couple of times, it depends on which dog and how the owner is. So like my, unless ah and at a stage when I don't know the owner or the dogs, ah the dogs all go on lead and I give a wave, you know, when they can see me just to make sure their dog is on lead. And then we can pass and have a quick sniff and a quick how you with the dogs. And then we'll go on and we'll do that a couple of times um until but myself and the other owner are kind of comfortable. And then we can let the dogs off and let them have a run and let them do their own things that they like to do off leash.
00:05:52
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:05:54
dave
But yeah, for the the vast majority of us is good interactions.
00:05:59
philosophecker
And is there anything that would make you say, if you saw somebody in the distance, is there any cue that would say, OK, I'm going to bring the dogs ah the other way rather than towards that person? I'm going to avoid that one.
00:06:12
dave
and It depends really, I suppose. For the first time of seeing someone, you don't really know how they are with their dogs and you don't really know how their dog is going to react to a group of dogs. So I would always kind of err on the on the cautious side, but I wouldn't usually change my direction. I would like, because it can be good for out for the dogs with me and for the other person's dog to have a positive interaction, whether it be a couple of seconds. um So I would usually keep going. I would have my dogs on leave and at a distance,
00:06:46
dave
You can kind of see if the person is nervous, if the person looks nervous and they have the dog on a short leave, I'm going to skirt around them. I'll give them a good 20 meters. You know what I mean? Space.
00:06:56
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:06:56
dave
Uh, so that's like, and that's still something for that dog to take as a positive, uh, interaction that like our dogs didn't encroach on your space. And there was no kind of high energy kind of thing, you know? Um, but like, there are definitely a few people there that love to see me because they know that I'm
00:07:10
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:07:16
dave
I am all right with letting and dogs off leave and let them do their thing as long as that person has a good recall on their dog. And I know my dogs have good recall. So it's, it's a safe enough environment when you know that you have a solid recall and you know, for there are people as well though, on the other side that just think that their dog is supposed to be off lead all the time.
00:07:31
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:07:37
dave
And it doesn't really matter how their dog interacts with other dogs. And I have had a couple of words with with people at times being like,
00:07:44
philosophecker
Hmm.
00:07:45
dave
Your dog isn't under control. Your dog's stressing my dogs out. That's not fair. And I'd say, look, the next time we see each other at a distance, we just put them all on leaves and let's just do a quick but walk by
Understanding Dog Behavior and Control
00:07:57
dave
and build it up from there.
00:07:57
philosophecker
Quick walk by me.
00:07:58
dave
you know
00:08:00
philosophecker
Yeah, I think it there's a there there's something about dogs, I think, is that that the they really want to be under control. Like if a dog doesn't know where he's supposed to be, what he's doing, it's not that that's a dangerous dog, but it but it he's he's lacking something. jim He's lacking a bit of comfort, a bit of structure.
00:08:19
dave
Yeah, sure. They have confusion and they have like, if they don't know where their safe space is and you know, it's like, think of dogs as children.
00:08:24
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:08:31
dave
They don't have the solid knowledge of everything unless it's, unless they're told or unless they're taught it. So yeah, definitely like, yeah, I've definitely seen lots of dogs that are uncomfortable even in their own owner's presence because how the owner would react at times, how to get the dog under control with a shout or a jerk on the chair on the the lead or whatever. you know so um And that really makes me sad.
00:08:59
philosophecker
Mm-hmm. It's a...
00:09:02
dave
I like you know i had an interaction was it yesterday evening with a guy, and and like that, I could see straight away in the dog's body language and in the dog's eyes that the dog was afraid of the owner, you know what I mean? And it's it's horrible to see that. and it's That's the kind of stuff that I would love to have an impact and that doesn't happen. Just to give people a little bit of information to be like, there's a couple of little things you can do that your dog will love you even more than it does already.
00:09:24
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:09:33
dave
And it will be like a confident, you know, comfortable dog. You know what I mean?
00:09:38
philosophecker
Yeah, I think ah I mentioned him before to you Michael Ellis um and I was listening to him again re-listening to him just preparing for this and he described the difference between an active dog and a reactive dog.
00:09:40
dave
let yeah
00:09:49
dave
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:54
philosophecker
Whereas as in a reactive dog has been taught
00:09:54
dave
yeah
00:09:59
philosophecker
through pain and through pain avoidance and through punishment avoidance and that they're always reacting to something in the world and they're always ah ready to react away.
00:10:05
dave
Whoops.
00:10:10
philosophecker
You know what I mean? They're they're driven by what they shouldn't do. Whereas the active dog then is the dog who's always trying to do something good for you.
00:10:15
dave
but
00:10:18
philosophecker
He's like, oh, this guy gives me treats. Oh, this is how I get the nice stuff. And you know what I mean? And I think that the the active
00:10:23
dave
ah like it's a way to think about it is try and put yourself in the dog's shoes like just waiting for that example there if you're a person who's who who has been like whatever I had hard when I don't mean this but in ah in a hard childhood hard kind of way but that parents were super strict and super kind of overpowering and not really yeah nurturing or kind of with any positive reinforcement kind of thing um you know you're going to be wary of the world because danger or a slap or ah a yank on the chain can come from any time. You know what I mean? And it takes them a long time to learn those cues, even though it's still a type of learning, and but you're learning to be afraid rather than learning to be happy and comfortable, but also in ah in a in a controlled manner when you do have a dog. When you have put the effort and time into your dog,
00:11:20
dave
they can have a lovely, happy life. You know what I mean? And not live in fear or expecting any kind of bad things to happen.
00:11:26
philosophecker
Yeah, and then and then they're always offering to do something for you rather than, you know, it's ahs it's it's a
00:11:33
dave
Sure. and Yeah.
Impact of Owner's Behavior on Dogs
00:11:36
philosophecker
big difference.
00:11:36
philosophecker
You said something there as well about the pull on the chain and when you see somebody bringing their dog up on ah up on a tight lead and i see I see that myself and sometimes it's, ah I feel like The person is putting their own fears and nervousness through that lead down to the dog.
00:11:54
dave
Yeah, that's 100%.
00:11:57
philosophecker
And so the dog is fine walking along, mixing the field is yanking the feet like they're very in touch with how we're emotionally our emotional states.
00:12:06
dave
And like, I really, I really feel for people who, who have gone through that.
00:12:06
philosophecker
And so.
00:12:10
dave
And usually what happens is the first couple of times when they go for a walk with their dog and they have a bad interaction and they don't know how to deal with it. And then they feel very bad about it because their dog got stressed. The other dog got stressed. The other human got stressed. And then that so unconscious memory makes them tense up anytime they see people in the distance. So, and like, it doesn't even have to be a a leash. Dogs can feel your vibe and your aura and your, and your stress way more than we give them credit for, you know? Uh, and then that's really a sad thing that people then bring that one negative interaction into the potentially into the rest of the dog's life because they don't want that bad thing to happen. So then.
00:12:53
dave
What they'll do is they'll either get really tense and try somehow to get past or they'll turn around. And then that dog isn't even allowed to interact with other dogs because of that one or two kind of negative things that the human doesn't know how to get over it, like, you know.
00:13:10
philosophecker
Absolutely, absolutely. I think that's what I found when when I was minding dogs. is it was I have to say, um the person I was living with at the time, the lady, an absolutely wonderful person, and almost anything I know about dogs, I learned from listening to her and and watching her. So it's it's it's not like I spent years learning. and I've had dogs all my life, but the the education I got was was amazing.
00:13:43
dave
yeah
00:13:43
philosophecker
um
00:13:44
philosophecker
yeah But she she had a very, she she has ah an amazing way with animals and an amazing way with dogs. And she told me once um that you can't be shouting around dogs. Now we'd have 15 dogs or whatever. And she said, if you're shouting and roaring and trying to get them to do stuff, She's like, to the dog, you have rabies.
00:14:06
dave
Yeah.
00:14:07
philosophecker
You know what I mean? You're insane. The dog is not going to listen to that.
00:14:11
dave
Yeah, yeah. you're a Yeah.
00:14:13
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:14:14
dave
Yeah. And like the the dog, it's a classic thing. A dog is barking and then you shout at the dog to stop back. The dog thinks you're joining in.
00:14:23
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:14:23
dave
You know what I mean? So for a large amount of it, like, you know, um, but just, yeah, it it is really beautiful and lovely to see somebody interact with a dog or a group of dogs.
00:14:24
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:14:37
dave
And when that person is totally comfortable, And then the dogs just feed off their vibe. And it just like, cause I've seen it in like in daycare situations where, uh,
Calming Techniques for Dogs
00:14:50
dave
like it can happen where, where one dog even can start running and bringing, bringing the energy up. And then the other dogs would feed off that. And if the people that are in with those dogs don't keep it calm themselves, like it can just turn into crazy. Like, you know, yeah you can lose, lose the run of the room unless you're able to.
00:15:10
dave
Like pick out the ones that need to be dealt with the first and also keep your crew, you know, and have your other distraction tactics and stuff like that ready, you know? Um, because like, uh, like running around barking is like the best thing for dogs. They'll absolutely love it. You know, that's, it fills, they're getting all the chemicals, all the happy bows out of it. Like, you know, so, um, yeah, but, but they again, to the point seeing somebody who can. ah interact with dogs in such a way that you can change bring your dog down from a high energy in two seconds, just with the right tone of voice and the right body language. um It's classic. like you
00:15:48
philosophecker
Yeah, and and I mean, it it took me a while to to get used to that, to to get used to the fact that the dogs were actually reacting to how, to my emotional stage.
00:15:49
dave
la
00:16:00
philosophecker
And so the first thing you have to do when things kick off, and and like you said, when there's a few dogs around, it can get pretty, like you can, it's pretty angsty-like. you So it's ah it's a bit of a skill to calm yourself first.
Training Reactive Dogs
00:16:15
dave
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:15
philosophecker
isn't ah and to tend to try and transmit that to the dogs. um it's not it's not It doesn't seem natural because even ourselves, when things are going mad, we feel like joining in too.
00:16:19
dave
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:23
dave
Oh, absolutely.
00:16:25
philosophecker
like you
00:16:26
dave
Like the first, like I've worked in a couple of daycares, but the the second one that I worked in, like the first week, I wasn't allowed to interact with the dogs. Like because the dogs know when a different human comes in, this is something different. So this is something that We'll get a couple of dogs very interested in you. And this dick could be jumping up on you, it could be sniffing you out, it could be, and they'd be trying to push your buttons as well to to see what makes you react. You know, dogs do that to other dogs. So don't think they don't do it to humans.
00:16:58
dave
Even people with your own dog, dogs try and train us and try and coax those into certain things as well with however they can. You know what I mean? It's a limited amount of stuff they have, but they try and do it.
00:17:08
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:17:08
dave
You know, and some dogs will try and push your buttons and be like, like I'm going to bark now for a while just to see or I'm going to you know there's different things like but like back to the thing the first three or four days I wasn't allowed touch a dog I wasn't allowed call a dog's name I wasn't and all I was there to do was pick up who and Pete and then when the dogs got used to me with the sign was when I walked into the pen and I didn't get a rush of dogs coming towards me that's when I was allowed to start interacting with the dogs a bit more because it's all about keeping the vibe low
00:17:15
philosophecker
yeah
00:17:41
dave
like kind of as calm and in a nice space, you know. And and I, had you know, which in contrast to another one that I worked in, which shows you different rules, different drive trainers, everything, everybody has their own opinions and ways of going through things.
00:17:46
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:17:58
dave
In the first one that I worked in, it was like, it was it was a free-for-all, you know what I mean? At the time, it was madness that like you're just thrown in and shouting shouting was part of the how to deal with things and throwing food on the floor and stuff like this. It's good to have the contrast of how to do it and how not to do it.
00:18:17
philosophecker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely it is. um
00:18:23
philosophecker
Is there any advice you could give people, you talked there about, like you almost became the background for the dogs. You were there so long that you didn't, you weren't a new stimulus to them. You weren't like something to react to. Is there any advice you could give to people who have dogs who are kind of too reactive to the world? Do you know what I mean? That you can't bring them anywhere but they're,
00:18:46
dave
Yeah. the Essentially, the the best thing and the first step to do is that, especially like for people who who have puppies, ah you know, there's a there's a certain period between three and 14 weeks, which is called a social socialization period. And basically, if you want your dog to be comfortable and confident in situations, bring them to those situations. So if you in the future have an idea or a wish to walk your dog down shop street or any kind of busy street, if you have a puppy, expose them to that for a short amount of time and reward them for it. You know what I mean? So like bring them to the outside area in a coffee shop, let them get used to people walking past and have your have your treats with you and be feeding them, dropping them a little food here and there. And you do that for everything, for busy places, for
00:19:37
dave
places, fields where there's other dogs for going on a bus or excuse me, in the car. And it's all small exposure and stuff like that. And that's puppies. And there there is like a step-by-step guide that you can do with that with puppies. For older dogs who are reactive, let's say to to react them to dogs. What you would do is like I was saying there in the in the field, if I see somebody 30 meters away who has a dog on the and my reactive dog is here beside me. And it's starting to show signs of of uncomfortableness and nervousness. I would tell the other person, please stop, don't move. So then this dog, they can see that they're not coming any closer. I can reward this dog for being calm if it is calm. And if it's not, we're too close to the subject. We're too close to the thing that makes them react. So the next time you try your best, or you can even set it up where a friend of yours with a dog
00:20:36
dave
And you're 50 meters away, 60 meters away. And you find out the distance where your dog, your reactive dog is comfortable. Wherever that is, you start rewarding. The next day you go 10 meters closer. You reward while the dog is calm. If the dog is getting too antsy, you got to break it off and you got to walk around. Don't even go near that other dog. So it's all about finding the distance where they're comfortable, rewarding them for being calm. and then bringing the distance lower and lower and lower. um Like another example would be doorbell, classic example. Like some dogs go k nuts when they hear the doorbell. So there's a couple of things you can do. One is you could literally get somebody to ring the doorbell every hour for a couple of days, once on the hour every day, right? And after they're going to be reactive for the first while, but over time and like obviously
00:21:33
dave
When they react, you're not going to reward them. But if the doorbell goes, dog goes, rah, rah, rah. And then you you use whatever you want to sit or a hear or a lie down. And if they do that, you can reward them. So the next time when they hear the doorbell, it's like this kind of exposure to the doorbell that it's actually not a bad thing, that good things happen after the doorbell. But then with the barking, if it's ingrained so deeply in the dog already, you're going to have to teach them something else because they're probably going to back when they hear the bell, but what you can do there that lowers the energy straight away. So they go back, but then if you give the signal to sit here or whatever and you make that solid, that's going to be calm. They might still back at the initially, but then they'll probably look at you because they know this treat's coming here soon. I have to do something else. I want to get a treat.
00:22:24
dave
um But with the with doorbell, is it is a tough one for a dog that is that way reactive, but you can teach them a shush game, which is like, you go like this, when there is an no doorbell, you can get go, shh, and they'll probably sit, and you give them a treat. And then when they get used to this kind of, this is the sign. So if the doorbell goes, you go, shh, yep. It'll take a while, but you can get them to understand that this and quiet means treats, or sit means treats, and here means treats. earning my food, um which which just on that point, because I said the words earning my food, I believe that that's something very useful. And I think that every dog appreciates working for their food.
Enrichment Techniques for Dogs
00:23:09
dave
Like anybody that I talk to when I'm starting training and there's something that they want to learn, I'm like, how often do you feed your dog? If it's once or twice a day. And then I would say when you want to do training, do it around those times. And also I would say,
00:23:25
dave
don't feed your dog out of a bowl for the first, whilst you're doing the training because food is like currency for them. Food is everything that they need, food and what water is there. But if you're not feeding your dog out of the bowl, it's always either coming from your hand because you're training them or you're giving them treats because they did something good or like something that I think every dog should be doing or if you have the space is scatter feeding. So basically whatever your usual amount of of dog food is, Uh, even take half of it. And if you have a garden with a bit of grass, throw it out in the grass. Like the first step, you just do it around your feet, get them used to picking it up off the ground. But when they understand that this is how I get, like my dogs don't eat out of a bowl and haven't done in years. I get a handful or a couple of handfuls, throw it out into the grass. And then what they're doing, which is one thing that they dogs, all dogs are meant to do is sniffing around. They're sniffing in the grass, looking for their food. So sniffing is calming.
00:24:24
dave
And it's also stimulating. So if you are, if you're somebody that doesn't have the time to walk your dog an hour or two every day, like do your very best to get a walk in every day. But if you can't do other things, that kind of searching for food is ah is a very stimulating thing for the dog. It can be like searching for their dinner for 20 minutes, half an hour. Some people say it's as good as a walk, you know?
00:24:48
philosophecker
that's that's ah That's really good.
00:24:49
dave
that thats for anybody
00:24:49
philosophecker
I haven't heard of that scatter feeding before now and that sounds really good. and It reminds me of them balls where they they put the food inside and the dog has to work for it and he he's enjoying it.
00:24:56
dave
Absolutely.
00:25:00
philosophecker
Even if it's not a even if he's not like doing it directly for you, he's kind of doing it for himself.
00:25:00
dave
Yeah.
00:25:05
dave
Oh, absolutely.
00:25:06
philosophecker
he He's off on the little hunt there.
00:25:08
dave
It's honestly, man, it really, had it really changed my dog's life and my life when I, when I started doing that properly, because like, even the idea, even like to dogs that are fast eaters and stuff, they put down the bowl and they were gone in 10 seconds, like, That's, that's wasted now. You know what I mean? Whereas if you're training a dog, the food is the reward.
00:25:28
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:25:33
dave
And then the stimulation of using their nose, which is their most powerful thing and they love doing it and it's a reward and it's, it burns off energy. You know what I mean? So if I'm busy and like I obviously I walk, but in the evening, if my dogs are like fucking, excuse me, if my dogs are looking for attention and I don't have the time to give it to them, I'll break up a piece of hand. into tiny little beats, up into the air, that's it. They're gone for 15, 20 minutes. They'll probably come back looking for more, but you know that they've had this stimulating 15 or 20 minutes looking for the food, you know.
00:26:02
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:26:09
philosophecker
and And that's it.
00:26:09
dave
and that's drugs
00:26:10
philosophecker
if It is about stimulant. And much like with humans, and we're we're very stimulated by sound and sight.
00:26:12
dave
ah
00:26:19
philosophecker
um We have, what is it, 20 million smell receptors. I think dogs have 280 million smell receptors.
00:26:27
dave
I know it's, yeah, yeah.
00:26:29
philosophecker
So like that that their whole world has built up a smell, I
The Importance of Smell for Dogs
00:26:33
philosophecker
feel like, more so than anything else.
00:26:33
dave
Yeah, like how we see the world and we can see green trees, blue sky, gray, something or other, whatever. They're having, ever like if you were in a field, they can smell a dog that was there a couple of days ago.
00:26:47
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:26:47
dave
You know, that's why, especially when you're walking a dog, please let them sniff. I know you, like usually with dog owners are like, oh, I have to go walk the dog. And they're like, come on, come on, dragging the dog. And that all the dogs wants to do is have a sniff of this where there's probably 10, 20 different dogs that have peed there in the last couple of days. And they're getting a sniff. And like I used to say, like the, those kinds of spots, it's like Facebook for dog. You know what I mean? they're And you know, cause they, they're getting way more out of it. And like, say if there's a dog that's in Heath or if there's a dog that's eating something different or you know what I mean? And that's all, that's all stimulation. That's all.
00:27:27
dave
and information going into their brain that they want to have, you know what I mean? So one thing for people walking their own dogs, if the dog takes a long time to sniff and it makes their walk too long, make the walk shorter, let them do their sniffing, you know, that's that's really, really important too.
00:27:42
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:27:45
dave
And one thing for dogs, if people are living in apartments and you don't have grass and stuff like that, ah get a plastic bottle put some treats in it, ah you build this up, but put something really good and smelly in it, put some holes in the bottle and hide the bottle. Like, you know, first of all, you start off slow, you show the dog the bottle and let them play with it. And this becomes a toy a part of their life. And then after a week of doing that, where they're playing with it in the sitting room, ah leave them in the sitting room and put the toy in the hallway or somewhere close, you want to set it up. So they're going to win. They're going to find it.
00:27:45
philosophecker
and the
00:28:20
dave
over the first couple of weeks, you'll make it as easy as possible for them. And also you can add a cue to it, you can go find after a while when they're used to doing all this and then they're like, oh yeah, yeah, I can smell it already. you know you like you take you you ah go You go to the fridge, they hear the fridge, they're right beside you. If the bit of chicken is in a bottle in the bedroom, they're gonna know this chicken in the bedroom, but they're gonna have to go find it. And then they find the bottle to chew and blah, blah, blah. It's just more another little stimulation thing for somebody who doesn't have grass basically.
00:28:52
philosophecker
yeah Yeah, it's all about stimulating them.
00:28:53
dave
Yeah.
00:28:54
philosophecker
it's it's It's how you tire them out, isn't it? A lot of the time, it's that information processing.
00:28:58
dave
yeah
00:29:00
philosophecker
Another thing, Lauren, I used to say to me was if you bring a dog to a new place for 20 minutes, it's like bringing them to an old place for an hour because of all the new stimulants.
00:29:04
dave
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. yeah Yeah. And that's another thing with the walking. If you're walking a dog in a new place, it's going to take you twice as long to do that mile walk or whatever, because they're They've never smelt these dogs before and it's really like, you know, let give your dog time to walk.
00:29:24
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:29:28
philosophecker
Is there any, um like you you said, there are a lot of about the commands and sh and heal and and the different words. Have you any tips for people on how they actually get a dog to link the words to the actions, to the
Training Commands and Understanding Dogs
00:29:45
philosophecker
behaviors that you want?
00:29:45
dave
Sure. Yeah. there There is a process. So let's say. Basically for the most simple one, for sit. I'm going with the puppy idea now, because if you have an older dog, people that's the first thing they do is either sit or paw or whatever. Well, luring is a thing. So anybody out there that's listening and you want to ah um get your dog to to to learn a behavior, luring is is the key word. Google that and you'll be able to find out what to do. And basically what that is, you get your high value treat in your hand and you bring it to the dog's nose.
00:30:19
dave
So they're like, oh, wow, there's good stuff here. And say for sit, what you would do is you'd bring it to the dog's nose. They're going to be like wanting to eat it. But what you do is you bring it up over their head like this, and then they follow and their boat goes back. Just a natural physical process of like, oh, where is it? Where is it? And my boat's on the floor. Give them the treat. That's the thing. So what you do, first of all, well, I suppose I push you put in a little caveat for, let's say, dogs, like, um, lurchars or side hounds and stuff like that. A lot of those dogs don't like to sit because they've got a bony, but it's not very comfortable. You should go for a lie down instead. um And if you use the luring technique, there's lots of ways to bring them to lie down and say that the process firstly would be, see if they can do it. See if they can sit down. If they can sit down, brilliant. Then what you want to do is, like I said, in the first instance, do that thing again to get them to sit. They're physically moving back. They're following the thing.
00:31:16
dave
And as soon as their butt hits the ground, give them the treat and say sit. You repeat that.
00:31:21
philosophecker
So so you get you get them to do the behavior first and then you introduce the word so that then they connect them eventually.
00:31:23
dave
Go on, yeah. to the bedroom
00:31:29
dave
ah Exactly. Yeah. And then it's like, so it's, um, get them to see if they can do the behavior first, see if they can sit down or see if they can go on their back legs or whatever you want them to do. Uh, and then you lure them into doing that behavior. And then you do that a few times to get them like, okay, this is a process I'm going to get paid for being here. Um, and then, then you bring in the sit, then you, you, you name it after they've done it a few times and after you know that they're comfortable doing it. Um, and so with the, with the sit in that way, I showed you the, um, it becomes like a sign for it's a hand gesture first.
00:32:11
dave
So this for me, if I have, I'm just holding my fingers like that in there is where the treat would be. Um, so when you get them, excuse me, now I'm getting a bit flustered with the, um, the process of it. So it's get the behavior, see the behavior, get the behavior, name the behavior, you know? So, and then it's like, they're used to seeing in food on the top of your hand. If you just bring your hand over their head with no food, they're going to just think that the food is there. I'm going to do this. I'm going to get paid, you know?
00:32:40
dave
Um, I suppose.
00:32:40
philosophecker
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:42
philosophecker
so So there's a lot of people who I've often seen and they stand in front of their dog and they point their finger at them and they say sit 200 times and the dog is looking at them.
00:32:50
dave
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:53
dave
it yeah
00:32:55
philosophecker
And I often think you've just ruined that word for the dog as a command.
00:32:59
dave
The thing
00:33:00
philosophecker
It's going to be very hard for the dog to to figure out exactly what you mean.
00:33:03
dave
is, they will say it eventually, but it's just it's just a lottery, it's a look. it's like sit set sit sit sit sit dogs confused doesn't want to know doesn't know what to do so i'm going to relax a little bit or i'm a little bit stressed i'm going to sit down he's like oh brilliant i'm able to train the dog you know after saying the come command 50 times um yeah absolutely wearing out the word is definitely going to weaken it um like yeah as well with say with the recall let's say if you're like one of the most important things to teach your dog is is recall and
00:33:10
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:33:21
philosophecker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:29
philosophecker
yeah
00:33:39
dave
Like again, like I've mentioned before, one of the things is it's, you're going to build up the distance. So if you want to teach your dog recall, you're going to start in the sitting room and you're going to throw one piece of cable over to the door, just so the dog goes a little bit away for you. And then you're going to have your high value reward here. And you can use the dog's name or you can get here or whatever your, your words you want it to be. And then you're going to bring them over here. They're they're going to follow your thing. And then it's like, You go a little bit further, you go into your back garden.
00:34:12
dave
The point I was trying to make was if the dog doesn't come to you, you don't feed it. You don't reward it for not doing the the thing.
00:34:20
philosophecker
And that's very important.
00:34:22
dave
Yeah.
00:34:22
philosophecker
That not rewarding the dog is as important as rewarding the dog because you're confusing it totally on what's it working for.
00:34:23
dave
Yeah.
00:34:31
dave
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's a hard thing to do for some people because you've got your lovely puppy dog there. And you, all you want to do is make your dog love you. as Here, have some more food. And so.
00:34:43
philosophecker
And puppies and dogs have have developed these masterful puppy dog eyes over the evolutionary time. and and there if it's like The dogs who were good at begging, they lived. They won. you know
00:34:57
dave
Exactly. actually Yeah. Yeah. You know, that was it.
00:35:00
philosophecker
So they're very good. the The words, you said that you can use any word. um I see people having conversations with their dogs. um and
00:35:12
dave
Yeah, that's to make them feel good.
00:35:15
dave
That's to make the human feel good, you know.
00:35:15
philosophecker
Yeah, but but it's the constant flow of words at the dog.
00:35:21
philosophecker
And then when you do want it to do something and you say something to it, it it makes no difference. It's been hearing noises from your mouth all day. it's its
00:35:29
dave
Exactly. Yeah, and that's exactly how you should perceive it. It's just a noise. So that's why it doesn't even have to be a word.
00:35:35
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:35:37
dave
It could be a or it can be whatever, you can make up a noise. And if you feed that dog, every time you say that noise, yabba-dabba-doo, and the dog comes to you and you feed it, yabba-dabba-doo is here, it's healed, it's the same thing. They don't know words, they hear sounds, you know what I mean?
00:35:57
philosophecker
No, they don't.
00:35:59
dave
So I like that's why I say it could be anything. You make up the word that you're most comfortable using, you know what I mean? Like some people say for example, here come return whatever it doesn't matter it's what you feel comfortable saying and it's the one word that you use all the time so if you're if you're teaching your dog like here if that's recall that's what you use on it's not like here or come here or come back or return you gotta be it's it's one word for one behavior like
00:36:32
philosophecker
Yeah, yeah that I think i people people get confused and start thinking that dogs can actually understand language, do you know what I mean?
00:36:33
dave
yeah
00:36:43
philosophecker
And dogs are so good at looking at us like and they do understand our facial expressions and moods and um and I have a kind of emotional connection with us. So we're talking about a really sad story and the dog comes up and lies on her chest and we're like, he understands exactly what I'm saying. He doesn't, he just knows you're sad, isn't he?
00:36:59
dave
Yeah. yeah
00:37:01
dave
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:01
philosophecker
He's like, are happy, vice versa.
00:37:03
philosophecker
But I think that catches a lot of people, is that we overestimate how much the dog actually understands.
00:37:12
dave
Yeah.
00:37:12
dave
and And it is, it is as well. Also that person wants to be able to talk to It would be so much easier if they could. And it's the type it's, it's kind of cathartic to kind of talk to a dog.
00:37:12
philosophecker
ah
00:37:21
philosophecker
yeah
00:37:26
dave
Like it's a person because you love it as much as a person and that that kind of thing. So there is that type of attachment that people have with like, um, like don't get me wrong.
00:37:34
philosophecker
yeah and And the dot?
00:37:36
dave
I, I talk to my dogs, you know, like when I'm partnering around the thing, but I don't expect anything from them. They're just there to listen.
00:37:42
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:37:43
dave
They're just good listening.
00:37:45
philosophecker
I think that's why they're great is because they don't argue back. They never say, hang on, you might be wrong about that. You never heard of that.
00:37:51
dave
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.
00:37:55
philosophecker
If you had a, okay, somebody goes out, No, somebody gets given a puppy, which is a horrible thing to do to anybody, I think, and and a horrible thing to do to a puppy because it's like giving somebody a child.
00:38:04
dave
Hmm. Yeah.
00:38:10
philosophecker
But let's say this happened. What steps would the person go from there who knew nothing about the dog, but they're like, okay, I really i want to make a good dog or I want i want this, you know what I mean? what What steps do they go from brand new?
00:38:22
dave
Sure. at
Advice for New Puppy Owners
00:38:25
dave
um First thing is educate yourself. Educate yourself in, cause puppy training, like party training or whatever like this, educate yourself in body, body, dog, body language. Um, like that, that thing, their body language is, is a lot of how they communicate with us, uh, how their eyes are. Um, and like say a puppy, the main thing usually with a puppy is the first couple of weeks, they're peeing on the carpet or they're peeing wherever else. That's usually the thing, but the vast majority of the time, the puppy isn't just going to go, oh, I need to pee and sit squat down and pee. The puppy is going to be looking to you with with some type of, um, uh, like uncomfortableness in, in their features. And it's up to you to understand and think in your head that like, okay, puppy hasn't gone, puppy's looking at me. What does it want? Oh, hasn't gone for a pee in a couple of hours. I better bring them out.
00:39:19
dave
you need to be as aware as possible about firstly what the dog's needs are and ah about um yeah the the body language is a huge one and knowing what to expect at different stages of the dog's life, and especially with the puppy stage. like you know So I would say first of all, look online to to to get some help or go to a trainer. To be honest, that's the best. It can be a little bit expensive. But the investment that you can make in a puppy's life with ah with professional with professional advice and with your time for the first six months, then you're going to have 10 to 15 years of a lovely life with your dad.
00:40:07
dave
So the thing I say is like, be prepared to work, be prepared to invest your time and your money into this part of your family.
00:40:07
philosophecker
Mm
00:40:17
dave
Think of it as a child. it thinks as itself as a child. So you're going to have to be that thing to show them or yes what the boundaries are, what what you're going to get rewarded for, what you're not going to get rewarded for. you know So and putting the time in, especially in the first six months that you have the dog, is basically it like be aware of how much it's going to take out of your life, but then be aware of how much it's going to add to your life.
00:40:36
philosophecker
-hmm
00:40:46
dave
So I think I might have gone off topic Go to a dog trainer, look up, do a dog body language course online. They're simple and easy. Just watching videos, tick the box answer.
00:40:55
philosophecker
o
00:40:57
dave
They're the two things I would say definitely that will make your life a lot easier.
00:41:01
philosophecker
Yeah, I just add to that. it's so Don't shout at your dog, dont because it was explained to me once. So your dog pees on the floor, you come in, you shout at him. Dog's like, oh shit, sorry, I'm not supposed to be in front of you, I'll do it behind the couch next time, don't worry man, I got you. And and when you The dog goes off, you're at the door, you're calling the dog, you're calling the dog for 20 minutes. Finally the dog comes home and you give out to him.
00:41:32
dave
Yeah, that's that's a big.
00:41:33
philosophecker
Like at that moment, the dog has made you so fucking annoyed that you're like, well, but that's when you really have to be the chemist because if you give it out to the dog for what it's after doing for you, it's a complete, yeah, yeah.
00:41:34
dave
yeah
00:41:41
dave
Yeah. You should. Technically, well how I've learned, I know I um totally understand that that example there, shouting, shouting, shouting for the dog, or even not even if it's gone out of sight, if it's ah across the edge of the garden and it's like doing its own thing and it's looking back at you and it's still sniffing. They're like, come here to me, will you? And then eventually the dog comes back to you. You should kind of be nice to the dog because it has come back to you.
00:42:13
dave
Not when you want it, but that's not your, that's not the dog's fault. That's because you haven't put the effort into the like reinforcing. When you come back to me, it's such a good thing. I'm going to give you love and ropes and I'm going to give you a bit of food. So you always want to come back to me.
00:42:27
philosophecker
And.
00:42:28
dave
This is, this is, I am the best thing in your life. This is what you need to instill in the dog is all of these good things. And that's like, again, like we started at the start, we were kind of on about the relationship between you and your dog. If you can have a happy dog, stimulated dog, dogs whose needs are being met, the dog is way more inclined to come back to you, to be receptive to your commands, you know, to be calm because it's, it's stimulated and it's got all its needs met. Like that's, that's a wonderful life for a dog. You know what I mean? and
00:43:00
dave
Of course it's going to do more for you because you've been nice to it and you've you've shown it why you should do these things for me that I ask.
00:43:09
philosophecker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. that that that that's That's great advice. um it's it's It's attitude shifting, a lot of it, isn't it really? like ah People need to shift their attitude to what the dog is, I think. Some people and some people think they're getting something with a remote control. you know, or something that they can program or they can send off to get trained and it'll come back fixed.
00:43:31
dave
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:35
philosophecker
or yeah don't read They don't put themselves in the picture enough, you know?
00:43:36
dave
Oh yeah, that's, that's another.
00:43:40
dave
Yeah. And what they'll do is they'll blame the dog.
00:43:44
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:43:45
dave
And one thing I want to say about whatever happens with a dog, it's most of the time, it's not the dog's fault. It's, it's, it's the, it's the human's fault because the dog doesn't know the boundaries. The dog doesn't know the benefits of staying within those boundaries. whether it be distance from home or whatever it may be like, you know, i um so yeah, it's not the dogs fault, you got to look at you what you can do better. And then that's how you work forward like, you know,
00:44:15
philosophecker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that that that's that that's hard for us to do at the best of times. Never mind for for the dogs, you know what I mean? Just look at ourselves. But yeah, it's good advice. um You mentioned the lurchers and that the lurchers don't like sitting down because they're bony asses.
00:44:32
dave
Yeah, yeah, some of them, yeah.
00:44:35
philosophecker
so ah and And we're talking about dogs here like like these will work the same for every dog. Is there like Is there differences in breeds that you need to treat? Like if you got a Greyhound, would would it be much different than if you got a Chihuahua?
00:44:55
dave
um Yeah, yeah, I would because obviously the physical size difference um and also what they were bred for. Shoah was her bred. Sorry, can I stop for a second? I just let one of my dogs out.
00:45:09
philosophecker
Sure, no problem. no problem but
00:45:13
dave
So yeah, I like the difference. Yeah. like Obviously dogs that are bred for something for a very long time, for hundreds of years, they are going to have innate traits to them that they just can't help themselves.
Understanding and Managing Dog Breeds
00:45:29
dave
So. The idea, let's say with, with lurchers or greyhounds or sidehounds in general, like if, if you're walking a greyhound and stuff like that, if they see a small fluffy white dog, they could mr mistake it for prey and their prey drive is an instinct and that could kick in. And like, that's just, that's what they're bred for. So you have to know what you're, what you're getting when you're getting a dog. So like that, if if you.
00:45:59
dave
want, like I said, that's the thing with do with the Greyhounds. They're bred for so long to be hunters, basically, that that isn't going to go away. So that's something you have to be aware of when you're walking on your Greyhounds and if there's other small dogs or if it's off lead and there's play through the cubby rabbits, very fucking, excuse me, very hard to get the dog back on lead if it's chasing a rabbit. If it's fulfilling its own ah instinctive drives, like, you know, um
00:46:26
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:46:29
dave
Sorry, what what was the what was the question again?
00:46:31
philosophecker
No, it was it was just ah about the difference. and when When people are approaching getting a dog, I guess, um what should they be thinking of?
00:46:38
dave
Yeah, yeah.
00:46:40
philosophecker
And is there different training techniques for different breeds? Do you know?
00:46:44
dave
and
00:46:45
philosophecker
how it Should it be approached differently?
00:46:47
dave
Yeah, like say, I suppose with the with the different techniques, there is a range of training and techniques. I don't know all of them. I i kind of focus on positive reinforcement. Uh, which, which will work for nearly all dogs anyways, because it's, you know, they're getting rewarded for doing something good. It's pretty obvious. But yeah, if you are somebody who's thinking about getting a dog, you have to be very aware of what you're getting. Like if you somehow just go and get a basset hound or some kind of hound that is a loud dog that they have been bred to bat.
00:47:23
dave
And you live in, in an apartment or in a smaller, and ah in an enclosed place. Like you're asking for trouble because that dog has been bred for hundreds of years to alert people, where's the Fox or whatever, whatever else, or where's the the bird and stuff like this.
00:47:30
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:47:40
dave
Like, and even with all dogs, all dogs, like I was going to go to Labradors first, their retrievers, they're, they're not exactly hunting dogs, but they are on a hunt. They are. bred to get things and bring them back to you. and And so I suppose with people, you want to know difference between a high energy dog and low energy dogs, okay? did didn what What their needs are going to be. So if you have a Chihuahua, you only have to walk that Chihuahua half an hour a day or something like that. And you might even need to, but like running up and down the stairs, probably going to keep the dog fit and a bit of throwing around the ball and stuff like that. If that and suits you, if you have a small space and you don't have the time,
00:48:22
dave
Whereas like, let's go with the Labrador, like you could walk a Labrador for two or three hours a day, and then still come back with loads of energy and expect you to throw the ball for another while as well, you know. um So yeah, definitely do your research. Do your research before you go buying a dog. Do your research in so many different ways, like who are you buying the dog from? um Like this is if you're buying a dog, ah like who are you buying the dog from? like get medical reports on the parents of the dogs because dogs are bred so much these days that they are just, it's not working there. They're being too bred. Like say with Goldens, a lot of Golden Retrievers have bad hips, like with Rottweilers, loads and loads of issues as well. Even with the staffies and stuff like that, they're all going to have skin issues at the start and stuff like that. You know what I mean? So definitely do your research and
00:49:18
dave
Understand yourself how much time you have to give this dog because you have to give them time or else you're gonna have trouble, you know Yeah Yeah need home
00:49:22
philosophecker
Hmm.
00:49:26
philosophecker
Yeah. So, so like the, the, the training techniques broadly would, would be the same for most dogs as in they'll respond to traits and, and, and you know what I mean? I'm building that. But, but if you're, if you're looking to get a dog and we said, buy a dog, I swore years ago, I'll never buy another dog. There's too many dogs out there that, that, that need helps in homes. I won't buy another one, but it, if you are going down that route. And as you said, it's important to do your research on what exactly the traits are associated with these breeds that you're getting.
00:50:00
dave
Yeah.
00:50:01
philosophecker
I know a few people, and I love these dogs myself, Cocker Spaniels. I love them. There's so much fun. Or Springer Spaniels, sorry.
00:50:09
dave
Yeah, yeah, the full brown ones, yeah, yeah.
00:50:09
philosophecker
There's so much fun.
00:50:12
dave
Or the brown and white guys, yeah.
00:50:13
philosophecker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I get those black and white ones as well as sometimes. ah but ah Up in the meadows, actually, you know, the rock at the end.
00:50:22
dave
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:22
philosophecker
I was meditating there one day. I left a nice spot to just be quiet.
00:50:25
dave
Yeah.
00:50:28
philosophecker
Springer, strayed at me, strummed. But it was the nicest thing to wake you up out of it.
00:50:32
dave
Oh.
00:50:33
philosophecker
You know, that they're lovely. But that I can see a few people get them and that that they make kind of couch dogs out of them. um I knew one. And what he'd done was he got obsessed with shadows.
00:50:48
dave
oh
00:50:49
philosophecker
And so he was chasing shadows everywhere. And he had the walls in the house wrecked from bouncing at shadows. And it's because ah I think there's something about springers that that they need to be obsessed about something.
00:50:56
dave
Yeah.
00:51:02
philosophecker
They have this mad drive. Like if there's often ones who chase stones, they'll drop them on their feet. And you could throw the stone into any mess of bushes. The dog will disappear in and he'll come back with that stone.
00:51:15
dave
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:15
philosophecker
um But that's such a drive to keep in a small house. It seems very unsuitable.
00:51:20
dave
Yeah. Yeah. But like the example you gave there, throwing the stone into the bushes, that's what springers are for. That they're they're going for going going in, flushing out birds out of a place where the human doesn't want to go. So they're like, bushes? That's my game. This is what I'm meant for. um And yeah, like, again, if you're getting a springer's manual, find out if their if it's parents were working dogs or even if it's grandparents were working dogs.
00:51:52
dave
because that dog is going to have, will have needs and expectations that you're not aware of. If you're just like, Oh, I like to look at them, look at their lovely long ears and stuff like that. But like the dog is going to, that that that dog that was chasing, excuse me, chasing shadows literally has a mental issue because it's not getting stimulated enough. That's, that's what happens there. They have to fulfill their own needs if the owner isn't doing it themselves.
00:52:14
philosophecker
Hmm.
00:52:20
dave
Like, That's the thing, why why is your dog chewing up the couch? Have you brought it for a walk the last couple of days? Have you done any any type of real interaction where it's just you and the dog, little bits of training? and Like people that have dogs now at the moment and they can see the dog has been a bit unruly. There are a couple of things that you can do that will change that dog. And it's not even like either shouting at them to get off the couch or teaching them to like, get off the couch or whatever. It's other things that that dog needs. That dog needs to go for a walk. That dog needs to go and smell other dogs. That needs stimulation like the scatter feeding or the toys to go do something because they have a long day of just sitting there. And especially if we're not engaging with them. You know what I mean? And like, you know, the Springer is a classic example of,
00:53:20
dave
people getting a dog because they like the look of it, and then they haven't the clue what they've actually bought. They've brought this thing with a lot of energy and a lot of needs into their house, but they just expect us to do exactly what we want it to do, which is totally unfair.
00:53:27
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:53:36
dave
like
00:53:37
philosophecker
Yeah, they expect it to act like the dog in the Disney movie that they watched, you know?
00:53:40
dave
Yeah, the one that you see on TV for 10 seconds or something, do you know what I mean?
00:53:44
philosophecker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. ah Is there advice you'd give to somebody um who wanted a dog but they they're not too into walking? They don't want, like they're they're making these ideas that are under this, let's say they come across a Springer and they say, okay, needs three hours of attention a day or walking or something. They're like, okay, I've got about 30 minutes.
00:54:13
dave
Yeah, yeah. and First thing that sprang to my head, because we we both believe in rehoming dogs and stuff like that, I would say consider getting an older dog.
00:54:14
philosophecker
you know
00:54:19
philosophecker
You know. Yeah.
00:54:24
dave
Because the they did whatever, not the pound, with the pound and Madra and whatever kind of dog shelters, there's always an older dog that nobody wants, which is heartbreaking.
00:54:34
philosophecker
yeah
00:54:35
dave
Because that dog has so much of its life lived. And for whatever circumstances, not, and not the dog's fault at all is now left in this more than likely overcrowded place that people are doing their best to give the dogs with the
Responsibilities of Dog Ownership
00:54:50
dave
need. But the, you know, that's a hard thing, but I would say consider getting an older dog, especially if you haven't had a dog before. Consider getting an older dog because their needs are lower, their energy levels are lower. Um, you know, so an older dog, uh, I was going to say a smaller dog, but that, that isn't exactly.
00:55:09
dave
true because small dogs like Jack Russell's or whatever need need need stimulation as well just as much you know what I mean so like honestly I would say if you can't guarantee and I like it doesn't I don't walk my dogs every single day I you know some days I miss it that's okay but as long as you can be sure that you're going to get out five or six days a week for a good hour walk a day and some play and some training and so like like play is necessary as well with you and your dog because it's bonding and it's stimulating and it's it's it's a way of sharing time together. I would say don't don't do it because your it's it's just unfair to a dog for you to get one and then expect it to fit into your life and none of the reciprocating like that you're not going to change your life
00:56:08
dave
for the dog, you have to be, and like the thing is, I'm only aware of this now because I've been working with dogs for whatever the last six, seven, eight years. um Yeah, so I honestly, if I was talking to a stranger and they were asking me, I'd only, I might be able to give the dog two hours a week, I'd be like, don't get away, just don't do it.
00:56:27
philosophecker
Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. And plus people often don't think about holidays either.
00:56:34
dave
Absolutely, I actually have a little list here, right? is' like Before you get a dog, have you space and time?
00:56:41
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:56:41
dave
Financial cost, like it's about two grand a year.
00:56:43
philosophecker
yeah
00:56:45
dave
It's 1500 to two grand a year between food, medical costs, and like you said, ah kenneling or boarding if you're going away. Like, you know, if you're lucky, you get to go one away a week or maybe two weeks a year. ah Like for boarding, it usually costs depending 15 to 20 a night. That's in the kennels. in a house, somebody's going to charge a twenty five tarti qui and night you night. And then for seven nights, that's an extra couple of hundred quid. So just to be aware of that as well. and open The doorar going and yeah financial things, and I like say even even myself, when when I got low the first
00:57:13
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:57:32
dave
And because I i didn't know much about tabs at the time, I'd say I had her to the vet once every six, eight weeks, just because she'd have a bit of a limp or something weird that I wasn't able to, to deal with her. I didn't have the knowledge to deal with. You're going to go to the vet a few times and it's not cheap, you know, and then like, like my own dog hair, Lola, when they get older, there's going to be more financial stuff on it.
00:57:49
philosophecker
Hmm.
00:57:55
dave
Like, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's, and like,
00:57:56
philosophecker
Yeah.
00:58:00
dave
Yeah, that that thing that you said earlier there, somebody just gave somebody a puppy, you know, and that actually happened to my sister about, it must be five, six years ago. Um, she got, she was given this, uh, gold yellow lab. It wasn't a golden lever, but yellow lab puppy. And like sisters, and like she's got three kids and a job and everything else. And I'm like, and like the dog, the poor thing, it got rehomed eventually. I was like, man. The dog is starting to show signs of mental issues because it's not getting what it needs.
00:58:35
dave
no um And what will happen over time then is the dogs will get snappy. They'll just be an angry dog because they're not getting anything of what they need.
00:58:43
philosophecker
yeah yeah so so just i think we're both agreed on that and stirring on that never get a dog as a present for anybody it's on unfair on the dog and unfair on the person if you think about it like giving somebody a child you know yeah absolutely uh so back to the
00:58:44
dave
Their life is crap because they're not getting the stuff they need. you know and
00:59:03
dave
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's it.
00:59:12
philosophecker
Back to the different breeds. um We have the XL bully ban coming in in Ireland now.
Dog Breeds and Owner Responsibilities
00:59:21
philosophecker
ah there's been some There's been some tragedies. So there there really has been some tragedies. And I was looking at statistics there. 44% of violent dog attacks are Exiled bully related to 75% of deaths, fatalities, or exiled bullies.
00:59:46
dave
Mm.
00:59:49
philosophecker
And only 1% of dogs are exiled bullies.
00:59:54
dave
Sure. yeah Yeah.
00:59:54
philosophecker
It's the numbers tell a scary story. I love dogs. I don't want to see any dog destroyed. And as we were saying here in the conversation, it's mostly the people's fault, like our dog turns out.
01:00:00
dave
Yeah.
01:00:03
dave
Yeah.
01:00:06
dave
Very, very much so. You know, and absolutely I, obviously my heart bleeds for, for anybody that's lost anybody through dog attacks or, you know, it's, it's. It's such a horrible thing to have to deal with, but you got to go back to the root of the problem. You know what I mean is like, I don't believe that if that dog had even a moderate level of training and a decent level of quality of life, and if its needs were being met and if it was stimulated and stuff like that, if, if everybody took care of their dogs to a minimum standard,
01:00:44
dave
those statistics would drop a lot because and like the the idea there with with the dog bites and stuff like that, there are so many more dog bites that happen that aren't reported because it's a Jack Russell or it's something else or something like that.
01:00:57
philosophecker
Yeah.
01:01:00
philosophecker
But apparently one of that one of the highest rate of dog bites comes from two hours.
01:01:00
dave
a
01:01:05
philosophecker
And I think i think that's because people always try to pick them up.
01:01:05
dave
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And they see a small dog, no danger, but it's still, the mentality is still the same. So, and look, like for me personally, I really like bull breeds, all bull breeds, Mastiff, Staffies. um And like the thing with the XL Bullies is there they're a very recent breed. They're kind of like Cockapoo's and Labradoodle. They're very recent. um And they're in a way, they're designer dogs. People get them to, to
01:01:45
dave
to have to fit into their own persona or something like that.
01:01:49
philosophecker
It's for the aesthetic feeling of it.
01:01:49
dave
you know
01:01:52
philosophecker
They seem to have ah like a fashion accessory.
01:01:52
dave
sure and know and and And look, if you go back in time, it used to be other dogs and it used to be Rottweilers, Dormans, whatever.
01:01:54
philosophecker
to
01:02:02
dave
So something that has that aggressive, and not aggressive is the wrong word. I don't like to use that word with dogs because dogs are aggressive for reasons. There's no dog that's born. an asshole. Do you know what I mean?
01:02:16
philosophecker
No.
01:02:16
dave
Dogs are a product of their environment just as much as we are. So yeah, like those stats with the with the XL bullies and stuff like that, like if it wasn't the XL bully, it would be another type of dog. And it's it's because of their stature and their but their the muscle mass and their whatever the the power they have in their jaws, you know.
01:02:39
philosophecker
And I think there's a like, were were we're breeding dogs for that aesthetic look now.
01:02:40
dave
that how
01:02:49
dave
That is exactly. Yeah.
01:02:50
philosophecker
And and it's not it's not like even you know people are breeding hunting dogs and they'd be breeding retriever dogs and they'd be breeding sniffer dogs and they'd be breeding them for them traits and they'd be looking for them traits And they'd always like the dog to be trainable as well. Do you know what I mean? So is it obedient? Does it have them traits I want? Okay, let' let's bring let's find another dog like that. Let's breed them together and we'll have this good dog.
01:03:16
dave
Yeah.
01:03:18
philosophecker
Whereas now it's like, look at the size of him.
01:03:18
dave
but
01:03:21
philosophecker
I want to breed him with her. She's massive too. That's going to be a cool looking dog. And there's very little talk put into it. What's his temperament like? You know what I mean?
01:03:31
dave
Absolutely. Yeah.
01:03:32
philosophecker
And ah and so we get these big, mostly dogs. and A lot of the time, and this is certainly not all owners of of these dogs, 100% not, and but there it does seem to be some people who go for these dogs who have no, i they will tell you they love dogs, but they have no iota of what they're buying, how to look after it, the potential of what the dog can do.
01:03:59
dave
Yeah, yeah.
01:03:59
philosophecker
you know um Again, like you like you mentioned, the chihuahua bites don't send people to the hospital.
01:04:05
dave
Exactly.
01:04:05
dave
Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:05
philosophecker
You know, but unfortunately, these big powerful dogs, yeah, they send people to the hospital and worse.
01:04:11
dave
Um, but it still goes back to the, I'm going to say anytime I'll have a conversation with anybody who's, who has their opinion of XL bullies or whatever, I'm still going to say if, if the owner of that dog or whatever XL bully or whatever type of breed. put in a bit of effort and a bit of time and at the beginning or whatever, whenever, you because you don't always get puppies. But if you put in the time to show the dog, let the dog learn boundaries and ah have strong commands embedded in them, the bites and the attacks and stuff like that will go way down.
01:04:48
dave
And I honestly as well, i'm the muzzling of dogs, like i have I have two dogs here and
01:04:49
philosophecker
Yeah.
01:04:58
dave
Lola could, because with the XL bullies, there's measurements that they have to adhere to. And Lola would technically be classed as an XL bully, just to fit in with the measurements.
01:05:11
philosophecker
yeah
01:05:11
dave
And she's not, like, she isn't a bred XL bully. She's a cross stacker chair with something else with a lab, maybe.
01:05:20
dave
But, you know, technically she fits into the mold of what's going to be banned.
01:05:24
philosophecker
Yeah.
01:05:24
dave
You know what I mean?
01:05:26
philosophecker
And she's she's an absolutely lovely dog. And that there is no actual pedigree exile bully, is there?
01:05:29
dave
yeah
01:05:32
philosophecker
Because they are, like you said, a new breed and mixes of...
01:05:35
dave
actually yeah yeah I like price suppose pedigree kind of comes from like troughs, stuff like that, or the American Kennel Association.
01:05:36
philosophecker
So there is...
01:05:43
dave
If they if they ah recognize it as a breed, then it's kind of, it's it's ah it's a breed, like, you know what I mean? But like labradoodles and cockatoos and all them, like some people will have arguments but with me saying, oh, I have i have a thoroughbred cockapoo.
01:06:01
dave
ah yeah Are you sure? That's all. Are you sure? Um, so like, yeah, that yeah, it's, it's very, very unfortunate.
01:06:05
philosophecker
yeah yeah
01:06:11
dave
And it's, it's going to cost a lot of dogs their lives and it's not their fault. Once again, the, the, the over one of the, one of the over the, the, the, the terms that I keep saying is it's not dog's fault, but it's the dog that's going to pay for it.
01:06:28
philosophecker
Yeah, yeah.
01:06:29
dave
You know what I mean? Um, so yeah, like, how about this? i I agree that there should be legislation on dogs. Technically, we're all supposed to have dog licenses for for our dogs. I was talking to somebody two days ago who was paying her dog license, and she asked the lady in the post office, do you get many people in paying their dog license? And she said to her, you were the first person in three years that has paid their dog license with me, and she's working in the post office. So that that doesn't happen. And it doesn't happen for a reason.
01:07:04
dave
because I don't think, I've seen the dog pound van go around. I have never, ever, ever seen a dog warden in a place where dogs are being walked. I believe what is necessary and what will make the world a better place in a small little way is if the dog warden did their job. If they want to the places where dogs are being walked and if they see a dog off lead, they go to the owner and they can you show me that your dog is under control and get it to come back. And if the dog doesn't come back, the warden should be like, here's a leaflet. Here's some tips on training your dog. Here is a website. Here is some more, all the free information that you can give to help that person be a better dog owner and to to make the place safer and to make the place a camera place for the dogs and the humans. You know what I mean?
01:08:00
dave
like that that that would be That would be a lovely thing to happen.
Regulations and Recommendations for Dog Ownership
01:08:04
dave
um
01:08:04
philosophecker
i i follow I fully agree with you there.
01:08:04
dave
because they
01:08:08
philosophecker
And even with this XL Bully Band coming in, as you said yourself, the laws that they have there, they're they're not enforcing them anyway.
01:08:15
dave
that
01:08:15
philosophecker
so like But there is something about um these tragedies happen. OK, we're going to ban these dogs. It it is. it's It's immediately blaming the dogs, you know, in everybody's eyes. Oh, what happened? Oh, dangerous dog. Them dogs are banned now. So we all go away with the thought that it was a bad dog. It was ah a bad breed of dog.
01:08:37
dave
Yeah.
01:08:39
philosophecker
It was what you nailed it there.
01:08:39
dave
Yeah.
01:08:41
philosophecker
You said the problem is out of control dogs.
01:08:44
dave
Hmm.
01:08:46
philosophecker
They can be any breed, but if they're not under control, that's the problem.
01:08:46
dave
Yeah. Absolutely. ah to Yeah.
01:08:51
dave
yeah yeah
01:08:51
philosophecker
You know, I totally agree.
01:08:53
philosophecker
and ah Yeah, and I think the warden's going around checking. Then again, it's often not the people who are walking their dogs that need to check in.
01:09:02
dave
Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:05
philosophecker
But yeah, and some, ah I don't think a dog license should be just a matter of filling out a form. I think there should be some kind of course to go with it.
01:09:13
dave
Absolutely. a
01:09:16
dave
Yeah.
01:09:16
philosophecker
It should be like, not not a care test, but
01:09:17
dave
Yeah.
01:09:19
philosophecker
ah
01:09:19
dave
Yeah. Um, at least like, well, you see, Ireland is such a crazy place to have docs. Like there's no regulation where the, the puppy farm capital of Europe, like it's crazy that they're trying to bring this in. Like, I don't know if you know this or not, but there's, there's a couple of puppy farms in Ireland that have over a hundred breeding bitches and that, and there is no, And that imagine that. um And so there could be thousands of puppies and dogs on this thing. And a lot of them are getting exported to Europe and because there is no regulation.
01:09:55
dave
It's it's it's absolutely crazy. like you know And to go to pups that come, a lot of pups, and you'd see the the mixes in the last couple of years when those, whatever, labradoodles and cockatoos became popular, the vast majority of them come from mass.
01:10:06
philosophecker
That's all.
01:10:13
dave
um puppy farms where they're born in this little room and that's all they see really until they're until they're going to be going home with somebody else but they have to fight for their food they're going to piss everywhere they're going to have absolutely no uh socialization so people are buying these dogs and they already they're bought with huge problems already like um and it's because again it's it's their environment it's what is normal for them is to guard the food
01:10:43
dave
I don't know if I'm going to get food today or tomorrow. So you can, you find a lot of them have have resource guarding issues.
01:10:46
philosophecker
Okay.
01:10:50
dave
Um, so like, yeah, all week, all the the best intentions would be to educate people a little bit more. Like we're not going to be able to learn that dog warden isn't going to be able to go around to every house that has an XL bully or any type of dog. But if there was a presence and if it became normal that I got a dog, I have to do a small dog training course. I have to do two or three weekends just to get to base. If that became the norm, if that was what was attached to the idea of getting a dog, that would be great.
01:11:25
dave
That would be lovely. You know, um, so that's all that's just to make that popular as a dog.
01:11:28
philosophecker
Absolutely.
01:11:32
dave
Oh, who are you doing the puppy training with?
01:11:34
philosophecker
Exactly.
01:11:35
dave
That's the next.
01:11:35
philosophecker
When do you start the course? It's cool.
01:11:37
dave
Yeah.
01:11:39
philosophecker
No, that that I thoroughly agree. I thoroughly agree. Is it a is there else you'd like to say? Any bits of advice you'd like to give, Anthony, you'd like to to to leave out there?
01:11:50
dave
and
01:11:54
dave
Well, a stimulated dog is a happy dog. If your dog is is is a happy dog, you're not going to have too much troubles. all right If you do have troubles, it's going to be easier to rectify those troubles. I said already about feeding your dog out of a bowl. If you need to do it, do it, but at least get a handful of kibble. Even if you don't have a garden, throw it out in the car It's not going to mess the place too badly and your dog will really, really thank you for it. Um, let me see here. Hmm.
01:12:30
dave
just Yeah. Like, yeah, I just, just, I suppose. Yeah. For people that don't have dogs and they're thinking about getting a dog, think about doing some training with the dog or think about educating yourself. What do I really want from a dog? If you want a lazy dog just to sit on the couch all day and not to, get a greyhound. If you want to have a dog that's going to go jogging with you every day, you know, pick a different dog, pick a Springer. You know what I mean? Match the dog and the natural traits of that dog to the expectations you have of what type of relationship this is going to be. Yeah, do training, get good food. I don't know if I can use brand names.
01:13:19
dave
Don't feed your dog.
01:13:19
philosophecker
Fire away, fire away.
01:13:20
dave
Don't feed your dog pedigree chum. It's like McDonald's. Please stop feeding dog pedigree chum.
01:13:24
philosophecker
yeah
01:13:27
dave
Take, learn to play with your dog. Don't forget to like, people get puppies and they're all about it. And then the novelty wears off. Play with your dog. It's good for you. Good for your dog. Like learn to love spending five, 10 minutes a day training your dog something. Because when you are training, you're not going to do this hour long training. Just do 10 minutes. Look for simple things on YouTube or whatever to train your dog. It's good for you. It's good for your mind. It's good for the dog. It's good for the dog's mind.
01:13:58
dave
you know
01:13:59
philosophecker
just just Just on that, you're you're brought up to my mind, um there's there's been some studies done on murderers, okay, and what they've done is they took measurements of the amount of serotonin in their bodies.
Building a Lifelong Relationship with Dogs
01:14:18
philosophecker
Impulsive murders, people who murdered all of the shots, not the theyre premeditated stuff.
01:14:18
dave
Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
01:14:25
philosophecker
And they found they'd lower serotonin levels. um Serotonin is highly involved in our impulse control.
01:14:34
philosophecker
Dogs that have attacked out of nowhere, they measured their serotonin levels.
01:14:40
dave
yeah Makes absolute sense.
01:14:41
philosophecker
And they found out they have low serotonin levels too.
01:14:46
philosophecker
It makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
01:14:46
dave
Yeah.
01:14:47
philosophecker
So they didn't have the impulse control. So like what you're saying, the stimulated dog is a happy dog.
01:14:50
dave
Yeah.
01:14:54
philosophecker
The stimulated dog has a decent amount of serotonin levels. You know what I mean?
01:14:57
dave
Yeah.
01:14:58
philosophecker
So it's on ah on a neurotransmitter level, what you're saying makes it makes a lot of sense too.
01:15:05
dave
yeah Um, yeah, that's it.
01:15:07
philosophecker
Yeah.
01:15:08
dave
Like, you know, yeah, you, you put a bit of effort into your dog and you're going to have a family member for the rest of their lives and they will do whatever they can to make you happy. You know, like you said, they're going to feel your vibes. They're going to come to you when you feel sad. They're going to bring even more happiness when there is happiness. You know what I mean? So, um, yeah, like, um, yeah, I, I, I encourage people to get dogs, but to do it with enough, uh, research and education and have the right expectations of you and the doc. Yeah.
01:15:43
philosophecker
Yeah, very good, very good. Thanks a lot, Dave. This has been very enjoyable and very educational. And I hope a lot of people get some stuff out of it. And I hope it might lead to some dogs at reasonable serotonin levels and happy lives.
01:15:56
dave
but absolutely yeah and humans are or serotonin like you oughtvaed they
01:16:00
philosophecker
Absolutely.
01:16:01
dave
it's a it's a give give kind of situation
01:16:04
philosophecker
It's a win-win. Absolutely. Absolutely.
01:16:06
dave
but anddahi thanks for much having me um and
01:16:07
philosophecker
OK. Thanks very much. Thanks very much. It's been great.
01:16:22
dave
Absolutely, yeah. And humans are more serotonin like, you know what I mean? It's a give-give kind of situation.