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Letting Go of Striving in Retirement - with Dr Denise Taylor
4 Plays2 hours ago
What if retirement wasn’t about filling your time — but about choosing how you want to live?
Dr. Denise Taylor is a chartered psychologist, later-life specialist, and author whose work focuses on meaning, wellbeing, and identity beyond full-time work. With over four decades of experience blending psychology, research, and lived experience, Denise challenges conventional narratives about retirement and aging.
In this conversation, Denise shares why curiosity, slowing down, and letting go of relentless productivity may be the keys to a more meaningful later life — and why it’s okay to choose a quieter, more intentional path.
Key Topics Covered
- The evolution of retirement over time
- From physical rest to reinvention and choice
- Identity beyond professional titles
- Who we are when the job title falls away
- Being versus doing
- Learning to slow down without guilt
- Curiosity as a driver of healthy aging
- Staying mentally and emotionally engaged
- Conscious aging and alternative narratives
- Moving away from relentless striving
Connect with Denise:
Website: https://denisetaylor.co.uk/
Substack: https://ageingreimagined.substack.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Rethinking Retirement: From Leisure to Engagement
00:00:03
Speaker
Retirement. That's what we're all aiming at, right? But exactly what does that mean? conjures up visions of endless days of golf, drinks with little umbrellas in them on a tropical beach, feet up reading a book.
00:00:16
Speaker
Is that what it's all about? I don't think so. Life would get pretty dull after a while without anything meaningful to do, don't you think? I'm Jackie Doucette, and I'm on a mission to discover exactly what life is like beyond retirement.
00:00:30
Speaker
Join me while I chat with people who've already done it, who've retired to something rather than from something. Let's find out together exactly what's waiting for us when we say goodbye to that nine to five.
Introducing Denise Taylor: Expert on Purposeful Aging
00:00:50
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Beyond Retirement. I'm your host, Jackie Doucette, and joining me today is Dr. Denise Taylor, a chartered psychologist, author, and later life specialist whose work explores how we find purpose, well-being, and meaning beyond full-time work.
00:01:07
Speaker
With over 25 years of blended psychology, research, and lived experience, Denise helps people navigate midlife transitions and reimagine what later life could be.
00:01:19
Speaker
She's an author. She has written Rethinking Retirement for Positive Aging, Career Coaching for Midlife and Beyond, and she's got another book coming up called Thrive Span, Walking Gently into What Matters Now. It offers a more conscious, joyful path through later life.
00:01:37
Speaker
Whether through her writing, her woodland retreats, or media appearance appearances, Denise invites us to see aging not as a decline, but as a so a season as a season of freedom, growth, and renewal.
Denise's Journey: From Coaching to Writing
00:01:52
Speaker
Denise, thanks for joining me today. Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm delighted to be here. I'm a little bit tongue-tied. I'm not sure what's going on today.
00:02:03
Speaker
So i I read a little bit about who you are in that introduction, but can you tell people in your own words what it is that you help people do or achieve as they age?
00:02:14
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I've been going through very much a period of rediscovery myself. um I was talking to a friend last summer and I realized I'd been working for 52 years and she was talking about retirement and she's 10 years younger than me.
00:02:29
Speaker
And it made me think, do I want to continue with more of the same? Because I always assumed I would. I always assumed I'd be a career in retirement coach to my late 70s and 80s and then I would stop.
00:02:41
Speaker
But I took some time out, took some time out in the summer, spent it in my wood. And I've now made a conscious decision to do much less of the one-to-one coaching work and much more of the the writing and the commentating and taking a more strategic view and developing materials and articles and books to help other people who are working one-to-one with people. And that's re-energized me. And I think that's that's one of the things that's a really useful thing to think about is like, just take stock.
00:03:18
Speaker
is everything going well? Carry on. Or as as as I found out, is I actually, you want to do something different, which is is what I have. And ThriveSpan, yeah, well, maybe we're talking more about that. But you know that I seem to be living and breathing what I'm writing about now.
00:03:34
Speaker
And that's I think that's really important. And that's exactly what you should be doing is showing people the life that they can have through what you do. Yeah. What led you to focus on aging and later life just as a career initially?
Evolution of Retirement: Leisure to Purpose
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, way, way back, like 40 years ago, I was in the UK. Large organizations used used to have people called welfare officers. They were a source of social worker stroke advice bureau.
00:04:04
Speaker
And at 27, I was the youngest this large organization had ever employed. They were generally... generally men, around 60, and they did the job for a few years before retirement. But I'd got a degree in psychology and I worked for the organization. And one of the things that I did, I was helping you know people with probate. I was helping with all sorts of life issues.
00:04:25
Speaker
But I was also running pre-retirement seminars. So at 27, I was standing at the front, being the host of a three-day retirement planning service for everybody who worked for that large organization. So I started off doing retirement work way back then. And so it's it it followed me through. i i you know I had a career as a consultant where I wasn't doing so much of it.
00:04:49
Speaker
But as I've got older, its it's come back more in. And probably for the past 20 years, I've been doing retirement coaching, retirement seminars. And What I think is lovely now is I'm now writing about things that I'm the age.
00:05:03
Speaker
So I'm, expect you know, it's not like I'm writing about things as somebody who's 30, but, you know, i'm writing and somebody who's who's actually living it, but I'm researching it as well. um And it's really something that fascinates me. But like I said, I want to move away from the more typical retirement coaching stuff that people do into things that more about conscious aging, I think, is is a good way of describing it.
00:05:30
Speaker
And that kind of leads into my next question, I guess. Over the 25 plus years that you've been doing this, what's changed the most about how people experience life as they age in retirement?
00:05:44
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, if I think about it, I work for um the UK Postal Service. It's called Raw Mail. And Clearly a big chunk of the people that I were helping were postal workers who had physically demanding jobs. And to be honest, when they reached retirement age, and it was many at 65, they were ready to retire. They had a traditional retirement. They were a bit worn out. They'd got spondylosis and arthritis and all these other things.
00:06:14
Speaker
And they just wanted to take life easy. So that's what we had back then. We then went through a phase in the 90s where a lot of UK organisations, their pension funds were awash with money and they just wanted to get rid of people.
00:06:27
Speaker
So if you were 50 plus, you could retire as if you were 60 and they'd make your pension up. You know, they'd add another 10 years into your pot. And it was an index-linked pension. So, you know, it was going to go up every year. It wasn't like it is nowadays with you've got to manage it yourself. and And those people, so at the beginning, really, they just wanted, you know, just how can I get through life and deal with my health problems? And then the next lot, who are 50, it's like, what should I do? Cruises, golf. And it was all about leisure. It was pretty much all about nobody then ever talked to me about getting another career.
00:07:04
Speaker
Then with my personal clients and I bought a book out 10 years ago, could find work at 50 plus. Um, and that's, that's still selling well. Um, and so people around 50 were thinking about, am I changing careers and like, am I retiring? And so you have this dilemma and it, so it's, it's probably for about 10 years. I've been working with people. It's like, do I carry on working in the job?
00:07:27
Speaker
Do I do a proper retirement, typical retirement? Do I go and do something else? You know, semi-retire change career. So there's lot more questions that people have. And like now, you know, it's like, so given I've spent 10 years working with people asking those sorts of questions, it's like, you want to keep invent reinventing myself, you know, it's like, I want something that's a bit more challenging for me than just doing the same thing again.
00:07:53
Speaker
So now I've probably got a much smaller audience that I'm focused on. But these are the people who who don't want to just carry on striving. They don't want to just keep on working and like get another job and on-call career and everything. It's like, let's just take a step inwards and let's just think what life's all about. And let's think about, seem to spend a lot of time people getting them to imagine they're 90, you know, and you know, the health is now not as great as it was. And looking back on 20 or 30 years and thinking, what are the things that you look back on with joy?
00:08:26
Speaker
And so you can start doing things like that. And it's not working. It's, you know, it's maybe it's finding an interest or spending more time with people or, and it's not the cruises. It's not what most people think older people are going to do. So these are the people that I'm working with. It's like, actually, I've done a lot of traveling.
Identity Crisis in Retirement: Finding New Purpose
00:08:46
Speaker
Don't think I want to do that anymore. But what I do want to do is just feel more content in myself and more content in my relationships with other people.
00:08:54
Speaker
But also a lot of the people I work with, they're like a really senior jobs, you know, really high powered people. And it's like, but if I'm not the head of a law firm, who am I? Um,
00:09:06
Speaker
And that that is the biggie about coming up with identity and how do they describe themselves without saying, you know, I used to be chief police inspector or something. You know, cop you can't carry on saying I used to be. It's like, well, who are you now?
00:09:22
Speaker
Yeah. And that's I think that's a key point now because people are living so much longer and they need to be doing something or they're feeling like they need to be doing something. And that kind of kind of leads me into – one of the things that in in the mindfulness and meditation kind of sphere where I'm sort of dabbling right now, one of the things they try to make us focus on is the idea of moving away from doing and just being. And I think that that's really important that we've got to learn that you don't have to be doing all the time. You can still be a person.
00:10:02
Speaker
Yeah. And Five years, it's just coming up to five years ago, I bought a woodland. i I know when I talk to people in America, they go like, what is this thing called a wood? But, you know, it's like a small forest. It's four acres of land with trees.
00:10:15
Speaker
um And it was it was, you know, during COVID-19. And everybody wants to be out in nature. And it was like lot of people there. And I bought a wood. I bought my own wood.
00:10:26
Speaker
And just being able to go there and spend time and, If I'm in my home, whatever I'm doing, I'm sort of on call for work because my computer's here, my books are here and everything.
00:10:37
Speaker
I go to the wood. I keep my phone on me because if I fall over badly, I need to be able to phone somebody. But it's it's on silent and it's not something that I'm looking at all the time. But I get out of the car and I breathe and it's like I'm a being.
00:10:53
Speaker
I'm not a doing. And... i'm a so I'm so different. It's sort of, i think there's a bit about, I'm resetting my nervous system. I just like feel so much calmer when I'm there. And there's quite a lot of money involved in in looking after a wood with sort of having to get contractors in. it But it's, I'll spend as much, you know, I'd rather spend money on that now than going off on a, you know, on a long haul trip.
00:11:19
Speaker
But this thing that you said, about you know the the doing And what I'm finding a lot when I look on things on LinkedIn is everybody's talking about on-call careers and carry on working and I'm going to work till so I'm 80 or 90 or whatever.
00:11:35
Speaker
And it just still sounds so exhausting. and I do wonder about the people who do that and that if that's what they want to do, all different, for her own interests but will they reach a point where they think, I missed out? I missed out on the period that I'm in now where I do some work, but a lot less.
00:11:54
Speaker
I can be and I can take the time to literally smell the roses and you savor my coffee and things. And I seem to be a bit of a lone voice on LinkedIn saying you don't just have to keep on working. And some people are agreeing with me. Some people get really irate. Clearly I've touched a nerve on them. I posted something on LinkedIn the other day, um, about, you know, taking things more easy and, um,
00:12:23
Speaker
Somebody said to me is something about, I appreciate your point of view, but that's not how I'm going to get older. My role model is Dr. Ruth, who's 102, and this woman I know who's 80, and this other woman who did a tri triathlon at 95. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness me.
00:12:40
Speaker
but But so for her, getting older is all about, I'm just going to carry on working, whereas... I think, and and she she reckons it's because she's an extrovert, she has to keep on. She you must be an introvert if you just want to be on your own in your wood. It's like, not quite that. But like like I think there's a lot of people, and for them, they're not going to get old because they're going to carry on Same pace, just keep going, keep going.
00:13:07
Speaker
Until they hit the wall. it's Yeah, it's it's one approach. But what happens when they get ill and they can't do it anymore? you know Or they burn out or you know their partner dies and you know the grief is all consuming and they hadn't even thought about how that might affect them.
00:13:24
Speaker
So I just say my stuff. And if people listen lovely and if they don't, I'm not going to convert people. It's just, you know, I'm just putting i'm just putting an alternative an alternative narrative out there.
00:13:42
Speaker
I think that's a grand way of calling it. So you don't have to just keep striving and working. You can actually, you know, just take a bit of time. And most of us will carry on working to some extent. It's just, it's not 50, 60 hours like it used to be. Yeah.
00:13:59
Speaker
I agree with you. I don't think it it need i don't think it needs to be that. there's you can You can find fulfillment in something if it's the right thing for you without working until you drop dead.
00:14:12
Speaker
Yeah. and and And that's the most awful thing, isn't it? When people have been saying, oh, well, when I retire, I'm going to. And then they or their partner die. And that is so sad, you know, and it's like they missed out completely because, yeah.
00:14:29
Speaker
So your your new book, Thrive Span, that's that's kind of an interesting title. and Can you talk about the title a little bit and and what walking gently into what matters now really means?
Thrive Span: Exploring Self and Community
00:14:40
Speaker
ive The nine books up to now have been conventional books. You know, you start at chapter one and you probably carry on until the final chapter. I decided, I wrote this book at my wood and it's based on, it's based on seven years. this is the book. This is the area I wanted, when I got my doctorate, which I got at 64, which is four years ago.
00:15:04
Speaker
And yeah, 21, four, yeah. So, so, This is the area that I wanted to research. And it's a professional doctorate, which is slightly different to a PhD. But they told me that I couldn't do the research I wanted to do. It had to be connected to the workplace.
00:15:20
Speaker
So it had to be retirement. So my research was, how do people find meaning in life after full-time work? And what are the psychological factors that help? Because I'm a psychologist, so we had to get those in. them And one of them is curiosity.
00:15:34
Speaker
in a test Being curious is really good for helping you to to age well. and So for seven years, I mean, actually when i started my doctorate, which was during lockdown, I was thinking, well, can I write this book at the same time? And i I did start doing that for the first year. And it's like, you are getting a bit crazy, Denise. i know you've got all this time, but you know, there's a pandemic.
00:15:55
Speaker
So I left the book to one side, but the good thing about leaving the book to one side, because I didn't have a wood when I first started reading it, is then coming back to it. It's like, I want to write it in a different way. So it's called Thrive Span, because it's but it's around thriving instead of striving. So it took ages to work out, you know, a good a good title and you know i think and span of life so that's how it came about but how the book starts is imagine yourself like okay let me just let me just say it like it so you've arrived you get you know now it's time to put your feet onto the earth and to breathe and now it's your decision
00:16:34
Speaker
I'm doing i to a much quicker way than it is in the book. You've got, to basically, you've got three paths to walk in. So it's a bit like you arrive at my wood and now you've got three paths. Which path do you want to go down? And the first path is looking inwards. So it's about self and wellbeing.
00:16:49
Speaker
And then the second path is about community. So it's connection and contribution. And the third path is about purpose and joy and creativity.
00:16:59
Speaker
So you've got these three paths. So you don't have to start at the beginning because you could think, Let's go and explore joy. So joy is one of the sub paths under part three path three. So we've got these different areas. So the book is written as You can just open it any time. There's interchapter essays that just go a bit more thoughtful into some of the areas, but it's not a textbook. I haven't got loads of exercises for people to do because the last book I did, I had 40 exercises in and it's like, no, i know i don' ah I don't want to be like, do this exercise and then reflect it. It's got it's got reflective questions for you to like sit with and think about.
00:17:38
Speaker
but it's just to get people thinking about these areas. And the the first chapter is really big compared to everything else, which is about wellbeing and rhythm because health, you've got to break it down into into the different areas.
00:17:51
Speaker
And it's almost like that's your compost, I suppose, because without health, well, of course you can still do all these different things if you have got poor health, but health is an area to start on, you know, and it's about where are you now and how can you maintain that level of health or maybe even get it better?
00:18:09
Speaker
But then it's then it's people can look into the different areas. So it's not, it's around 45,000 words, I think. So it's not a huge book. I didn't want to write a huge book. I wanted it to be a more thoughtful companion.
00:18:19
Speaker
So that's how I see it as, as ah as a thoughtful companion. um But it's also, it's based on academic research because people keep telling me I'm quite unusual because I've got my doctorate at 64. I've been working in this field for 40 years.
00:18:36
Speaker
And I'm like, I'm old, you know, I'll be 70 next year. So, you know, it's it's it's quite an unusual combination. So I've made sure it wasn't just writing a book on being older based on my life. Like, you know, lots of people do that, but it's based on academic research. I went back and read all these academic papers that are about aging.
00:18:57
Speaker
And because I've got a doctorate, I can read academic papers like, you know, like some really easy newspaper. that I can just like skim through them. It's an amazing skill to have.
00:19:07
Speaker
So I could bring together, you know, theories by Super and Bolt and, you know, Levinson and all these other people, but just, you know, just introduce them. So I have ah i have a theoretical model and I've got a paper that's going through the publishing process to go into a learning journal.
00:19:24
Speaker
But that's that's just to prove my academic credentials about it. The most important thing is... when I give it to my mom or my sister or you buy it or something, you know, and it's a book that will, that will sit with you. It's not, you know, it's a book that you can just about fit into your handbag rather than, you know, it's this weighty tome that has to be left at home.
00:19:44
Speaker
So, yeah. It sounds really interesting, actually, something that you can just kind of pick up wherever you are and however you feel and follow the right path. Yeah. And I've even got another book that's half done. Honestly, I'm so on a roll with writing. And the book that comes after this coming out in October is called Olderhood Unfolding. And that one is 52 essays.
00:20:08
Speaker
I've written 37, but I'm going back and looking at some of them because I think, you know, I'm not sure. but but But basic is going to have 52 essays. So there's one a week.
00:20:19
Speaker
And again, you could just dip in and it can be, you know, this is the essay where, I mean, this is a bit grand, you know, it's like, and it's an article, but you can, you can take an essay for the week and then read it and then reflect on it. And there'll there'll be reflective prompts.
00:20:36
Speaker
um And that's the, that's another book that, I'm actually, as I write them, I'm testing them out. I do i i i sit with them. and And so I've got my own answers to them because I also am doing myself as an experiment because I want to see, do the answers that I came up with at say 67, what will it be like when I look at it again at 77?
00:20:59
Speaker
Will I be answering them in a different way? It's another academic paper I can write on. i love writing I love writing. And I just want to give a different, it seems to be a sort of ah a bit of a different view than other people are doing. I know there's people that are doing like conscious aging, but they're doing it it from a very spiritual perspective.
00:21:20
Speaker
But I don't want it to be religiously spiritual. I want it to be a bit more pragmatic and v Yeah, that makes sense. and's I was going to ask what positive aging looks like what when you put it into practice. What does it mean to you? and You're kind of saying that. Honestly, there's so many books going around, isn't there? The the book, Rethinking Retirement, my publisher went and added the positive aging on it. I go like, I don't like it. I hate the term positive aging. Can you just remove it? Oh, it's good for SEO, they said.
00:21:56
Speaker
And go like, but I don't agree. And it's like, well, tough. You signed the contract. We can call it whatever we want, basically. you
00:22:06
Speaker
you know, I, I, I actually, I keep on telling people like I'll be 70 next year. i mean, I'm still 68, but you know, be seventy And I'm quite happy to say that. I think positive age is more, but I guess it's a positive state of mind and to accept getting older and only we've both got gray hair and it's like, but why would we pretend we're young and still dye our hair same shade of dark brown that we had when we were 30? Because it's clearly, it's not your it's not the color you are now.
00:22:34
Speaker
um So I think it's good if we can stand into accepting aging and so like younger friends for all of us can can look at us and they go like, don't look that bad really, does it? You know, Jacqueline's like this and Denise is like that, b bring it on. And I think that's what we need to do because the people who go, like, I'm not old, I'm ageless.
00:22:55
Speaker
And I do think that's a WTF point. um Because it's like, well, what what what do they mean? It's like, I'm just like, Well, you know, I'll just i just claim my age because I do think younger people, the need to they need to see those of us that are 60 or 70 or 150 or whatever age we happen to be and think, well, look, they're still doing that.
00:23:20
Speaker
Because otherwise, if you pretend you're still 50, I'm 21 again. It's like, you know. it then Then, you know, the yeah but that that's, I think sometimes the reason people don't like to say their age is it's all about their own self-concept and, you know, they they can't accept it.
00:23:38
Speaker
um So um I always think kindly of people like that. You know, I don't, I would never berate them in public, but, you know, it's maybe they'll change their mind or maybe not. My mum has friends in their nineties who still insist they're 60 something.
00:23:55
Speaker
And I did say to one of them, I said, but I'm 68. um And she clearly, she's in her 90s because she's my mom's friend, but you know.
00:24:07
Speaker
I always find that amusing too. And the people when I was younger who were upset because they were 39 or, you know, they couldn't say they were 40 because it's such a big difference from 39. And yeah um now you're in your sixty s So was that bad?
00:24:25
Speaker
Yeah, quite. Quite. I mean, yeah. And and people are like, I wish I was 39 again. Oh, I'm glad I'm not. Would you really want all of that angst? you know Because I think wherever we are, it's about being happy with the age that we are, isn't it? And you know we've we've all had setbacks and dispute in know disappointments and stuff. But And I can think of some I've had, but they've made me who I am. If I hadn't, you know, if I hadn't gone for that traumatic relationship ending, i wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. So, you know, but I can see it like that because I am more positive. And most of us have heard about the work by Becca Levy about, you know, if you're if you're taking more positive attitudes, you're going to live seven and a half years longer.
00:25:11
Speaker
um So, you know, it's just keep that in mind. And that actually was, my next question was going to be, one what's what's one action that people could take right now to start
Keys to Positive Aging: Curiosity and Proactivity
00:25:24
Speaker
thriving? And I think, you know, that is it. Yeah. yeah But the other is about remaining curious because, and that that came from my academic research. You know, I did this masses of stuff that you have to do at doctoral level. but but Thinking about the personality factors, curiosity really helps people to age well um and then to have a more successful later life.
00:25:52
Speaker
If you think about personality qualities, there's something called conscientiousness, which basically means, you know, you organize and you do things that you say you're going to do, you know.
00:26:03
Speaker
um And conscientiousness um matches with a longer, more healthier later life. And I think that's because if you're conscientious, you take your medication and you do what the doctors tell you to do and and and and things like that.
00:26:17
Speaker
and And another thing is around and being proactive, because if you just sit back and wait for the people to do stuff for you or to you and then moan because nobody ever does anything to you. Well, you so it's it's about having agency and taking ownership for things. um So,
00:26:36
Speaker
Yeah, be proactive. You know, if you want to go somewhere, ask somebody or go on your own. um but but But the being curious and appreciating joy appreciating the small things.
00:26:47
Speaker
I think they're things anybody, anybody can do. You know, it's like, what do you mean by being curious? Somebody asked me. I said, well, just like being interested. Like, you know, do you want to learn an instrument? you want to Do you want to start reading a different book? Do you want to just do something different? Just ask them ask the question, why?
00:27:05
Speaker
So I think curiosity, yeah, yeah it keeps us young. It keeps us young because we're not just living in the past. Because if we're not curious, we go like, well, back in my day.
00:27:18
Speaker
young people actd it would say, back when I was young, it's no, no. Yeah, because that time is gone. Yeah, unless they're doing some historical thing. And in fact, I was in one of the national newspapers the other week.
00:27:33
Speaker
And I think I'm their token old person. because they were asking me what it was like when I was young. Honestly, I felt like, what was it like in the war, granddad? But what was it like when I was young about not having central heating?
00:27:47
Speaker
Because they said well, you didn't have central heating when you were young. And I was you know And so they they were they wanted me to write an article for them about staying warm in the weather. And it's like, wear more layers of clothes. It's like, rock your sides. And ah keep that keep active and warm one room and make sure that your bed is warm. So when you get into bed, you can dive into bed and things. And they're going, oh, this is amazing. And I'm thinking, but ask anybody over 50 and they know these sorts of things.
00:28:21
Speaker
yeah
00:28:24
Speaker
But hey, they paid my journalist fees for me to write the article. So hey, I must have had
00:28:31
Speaker
It's funny when you think about how things have changed and and what younger people think of as normal that you didn't have. and it, each Each year it seems to be a little bit a little bit more distant or a little bit you know further ah away from your childhood and what things are now. And I think what you said about being curious is really important. And yeah it takes you back to just being a a a child again and asking, you know, why is it that way? and
00:29:05
Speaker
It doesn't take much. We had that, didn't we? I mean, I think every child is curious unless it's got beaten out of things with some terrible childhood. So it's like, well, why not be interested and and ask people questions? Be curious about other people as well, not just because you know the typical, we and we we both know typical older people. And like, how are you? And they just give you the whole list of ailments. And it's like, you're not meant to say that. You're meant to say, fine.
00:29:30
Speaker
ah Nobody wants to hear. but But people do, don't they? They just talk about all the things that go wrong in their life. And then they wonder why people don't actually want to talk to them.
00:29:43
Speaker
That's it, exactly. But it's also important when someone asks you to be honest with them, I think. Or you could turn it around and say, do you really want to know? Yeah, quite. Yeah, quite. like yeah and I think there's a difference between, you know, your close friends who who are interested and, you know, more, yeah and you know, just just people that – what's the word? Not close friends, just connections. Acquaintances.
00:30:10
Speaker
Acquaintances. Acquaintances, that's the word that escaped me. Yeah, I mean, they're just saying, like, so how are you? And it's just part of the – yeah. But, yeah, I mean, but definitely we should wish should we should be honest to those that we're close to, especially if we're – because we all get – feeling low. And like, I would never say you've just got to keep you on your happy face it all the time. Cause that's, I mean, that's not, that's not sensible or good for any of us. I mean, I have, I have days where I feel more low and I have my own ways of dealing with it.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. So where can listeners um go to find out more about you and and the books that you, ah that you've written and the things that you're doing?
00:30:53
Speaker
Okay. Well, I write a lot on Substack. I've been on there for nearly two years now and it's Aging Reimagined. And anybody would find really interesting articles there. I write on a Monday about general topics about aging. And on the Thursday, it's more detailed um articles to do with what I call olderhood. um So that's more slightly more academically orientated. Um, I'm trying to, to split them so that one day is this and the other day is that that's a really good place to find me. They can find on my website. and and I'm also on LinkedIn, but you know, I think I like Substack. I'll give you all the details so that they can be in your show notes rather than me starting to read read them out now. Well, no, exactly. I'll put them all in the show notes. And details about my book will be on my personal website and, and we'll be on, um,
00:31:48
Speaker
on Substack as well, because as I said, I seem to be on a bit of a role writing books at the moment. I had a a spell where, I mean, as a writer, your royalties are really low nowadays. And it was, do I actually want to?
00:32:01
Speaker
and But getting commissioned to write the last book, um Career Coaching for Midlife and Beyond, it was a lovely ending to that sort of work that I did. And these next two books, Lifespan and Olderhood and Folding,
00:32:15
Speaker
these ones I'm just so excited. I don't care if I don't make any hardly any money about them. I just want to tell the story. Um, and I've got, I've got some things I'm the ah ah under development about how I can expand on that, but I'm, I'm not sharing it just now, but you know, as this goes live, there may well be information coming out around that, but I need to trials.
00:32:37
Speaker
I'm like, I'm quite good at trialing things now before before I try and launch things, I need to check it whether it's gonna work. So I'm gonna leave it till March. ah I know, cause honestly we've recorded this early. So I'm gonna, yeah, so this, this, this, by the time this is live, it will be, and it will have been trialed and we'll see whether it's working or not. And then, then there'll info all over the place about it.
00:33:00
Speaker
Yes, that'll be exciting.
Embracing New Experiences: Overcoming Fear
00:33:02
Speaker
listen Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the listeners before we wrap it up? I don't think so. this Is there something? I think one of the things is people are quite surprised about me that I'm really into drum and bass. um But there's something for me about the pulsating music of that. And I was never into drum and, I don't think they had drum and bass when I was young.
00:33:28
Speaker
Anyway, was a bit of a hippie and then a bit of a punk. but But there's, for me, for me, there's something about, and I love the quietness of my wood.
00:33:40
Speaker
But I also like the pulsating bass when I go to gigs and the music just goes through me and resonates through me. And I sometimes look around and I think I'm probably older than everybody's mother here.
00:33:56
Speaker
and and And I don't care. And I'll often go to these gigs on my own because most of my friends aren't interested in it. But that's okay because we start talking to people. But I think it's – the reason I'm sharing it is like sometimes it's step into that fear.
00:34:09
Speaker
So for me, it was like I'll go to gigs on my own if that's the music I want to listen to, which surprises people, I will. But for somebody else, it might be, you know what, I've always wanted to kayak.
00:34:20
Speaker
And it's like can I, should I, will I, who – Do it. I mean, because if we don't do it now, if we leave it in five years time, maybe it'd be less easy for us. I should have done it then.
00:34:34
Speaker
So I think this is this is the one thing I'd say for everybody for for the year going ahead. It's like, you know, the the the whole feel the fear and do it anyway. But I think it's a bit like that. It's like, but if it energizes you, it's something you'd really like to do.
00:34:50
Speaker
Give it a go. And if it doesn't work, because I've done some things that really don't work, um But I tried them. I did comeadded improv comedy for a few years, but I realised it was hard work.
00:35:03
Speaker
And yeah, it was using brain cells that were really, really hard going because I was doing it with all these young people and their brain is working differently to me. And I just needed a bit more time. And it's improv. You haven't got time.
00:35:18
Speaker
So I keep on thinking, do I go back? But I think... I think that I really enjoyed it for a while, but you know i think that's but I'm glad I tried it, even though I was like the oldest by a good number of years.
00:35:32
Speaker
ah That's fabulous. And I think it's perfect. You need to try the things that you think of, yeah whether they work or not. no And if they don't work, well, at least you tried, didn't you? Exactly. and It's another story to tell the great grandchildren about.
00:35:49
Speaker
Yeah, and exactly. I can see. I can see.
00:35:54
Speaker
Excellent. ah Denise, thank you very much for taking the time to chat with me today. I've really enjoyed it. You're a fascinating person. And and I'm sure that you'll keep writing um books for many, many years to come.
00:36:10
Speaker
I'm sure I will as well. um but But thank you so much for inviting me. And it's been a joy. You've been lovely. Thank you.
Conclusion: Subscribe for More Insights
00:36:19
Speaker
And that's it for this episode of Beyond Retirement. Thank you so much for hanging out with me. I hope you enjoyed it. To check out the video interviews, please go to my YouTube channel at bit.ly forward slash beyond retirement. That's B-I-T dot L-Y forward slash beyond retirement. Be sure to subscribe so you won't miss any new episodes.