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Staying Sharp: Brain Science for a Better Retirement with Dr. Therese Huston
5 Plays8 minutes ago
Dr. Therese Huston discusses why cognitive changes in later life don’t always signal decline and how to stay mentally strong with simple, science-backed strategies.
Key Topics Covered:
- The difference between normal memory lapses and concerning cognitive decline
- How the brain actually gets better at certain things with age
- Why “brain training” apps might not be as effective as you think, and what works better
- The surprising link between movement and memory
- How multitasking, stress, and even retirement routines can cloud mental clarity
- Daily strategies for staying sharp without overhauling your life
- The emotional impact of memory concerns and how to manage that inner dialogue
Action Steps:
- Replace multitasking with focused, single-task attention once per day
- Build a new memory-friendly habit around your existing routine (e.g., walking while reviewing your to-do list)
- Reframe “forgetting” as a cue to slow down, not as a failure
- Grab your own copy of Sharp: 14 Simple Ways to Improve Your Life with Brain Science
You can contact Dr. Huston via her website: https://theresehuston.com
Don't forget to check out her new book, Best Brain Ever, hitting stores on December 2, 2025!
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
or so I don't forget about it. Great. Because I'd hate to get halfway through and go, oh my God.
00:00:11
Speaker
And I guess ah we can get going. Fabulous. Thanks, Jackie.
Introduction of Guest: Therese Houston
00:00:16
Speaker
Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Beyond Retirement. Today my guest is Therese Hutch. Oh, this is why I edit.
00:00:27
Speaker
Today my guest is Therese Houston, a cognitive neuroscientist who transforms good science into great strategies. She's the author of at least four books, including her most recent one, Sharp, 14 Simple Ways to Improve Your Life Through Brain Science.
00:00:43
Speaker
Therese has taught at Seattle University, advised Fortune 500 companies, and written for Time Magazine, The New York Times, and Harvard Business Review. Therese, thanks for joining me today.
Therese Houston's Background in Neuroscience
00:00:55
Speaker
Thanks, Jackie. It's such a treat to be here. I'm really excited to hear all about the things you do because brain science is something that really fascinates me. um Let's start with a little bit of your backstory. How did you end up studying the brain?
00:01:12
Speaker
Well, I went to graduate school to get my master's and PhD straight out of college. i was I didn't take a gap year. i Looking back, I kind of wish that I had, but I went right into grad school and i was studying cognitive science, how the brain and mind work.
00:01:28
Speaker
And I became fascinated with what neuroscience had to teach us. And I wasn't in a neuroscience program, but I I basically enrolled for every neuroscience course that I could take. And I and got my PhD advisor with someone who's now in charge of neuroscience at Princeton, or at least he was last night checked.
00:01:46
Speaker
So I was very excited about neuroscience. And I remember in my or I think it was my third year of my graduate program. like i I went excitedly into my advisor's office and I said, I think I figured it out. I know what I want to do my PhD research on.
00:02:02
Speaker
And he was slouched at his computer typing. In fact, he didn't even look away from the computer yet. And he's like, okay. and And I said, I want to study neuroscience and how to make it helpful to people. And at this point, Jackie, he finally like turns away from his computer and he says, you mean for patients, right?
00:02:20
Speaker
And I said, no, no, I mean, for everyday people like you and me. this was the early 1990s. And his his eyes just slide right back to his computer and he goes back to typing. and He's like, it's too soon. Maybe another decade, but it's way too soon.
00:02:32
Speaker
So that was in the early 90s. And then in the early 2000s, I approached another researcher who I'd worked with. And he became the department chair of the psychology department at Stanford. And I asked him, like, I want to do, i want to apply neuroscience to everyday
Pandemic's Influence on Neuroscience Research
00:02:45
Speaker
problems. And he said almost the exact same thing. It's too soon.
00:02:49
Speaker
Too soon, Therese, we gotta to wait a while. So finally, in um and and I waited actually two decades, and then during the pandemic, I began to dip into the research and finding out, much to my delight, that neuroscience was really getting useful to everyday people.
00:03:05
Speaker
And I was personally looking for strategies myself because I was finding myself so distracted by the news cycle. I don't know about you, Jackie, but I... Often I'm able to just ignore the news when I need to focus. I'm i'm good about that. Or if I need to go to bed, all i I won't watch the evening news or listen to the ah podcast at night that has to do with the news.
00:03:28
Speaker
But during the pandemic, I found myself just... starting every day, checking like, what is Fauci saying? And what are the rates of COVID in my you know state and and city? and And it was a bad way to start the day because then I was very distracted.
00:03:43
Speaker
So I, for myself, was looking for strategies on how to get focused. earlier in the day and what what did neuroscience have to teach us. So when I found those strategies useful for myself, I began to realize, wait, maybe this could be helpful to other people. And what does the research have to say about memory? And what does research have to say about coping with stress? And just so many great things that neuroscience can now teach us about how to live better, happier lives.
00:04:07
Speaker
That's
Managing News Consumption for Mental Health
00:04:08
Speaker
fascinating. And I do find myself hiding away from the news. I i tend to be an ostrich. People say, well, did you hear about it? no, no, I didn't. And now I'm hearing about it. Here we go. yeah Yeah, I find all we need.
00:04:25
Speaker
ah Yes, yes. You know, and the and the top news stories will make it to us. And, and it's not that I ignore it altogether. But I have I do find that I have to, you know, stop digesting news after after dinner, basically, before dinner, I can handle the news after dinner, it's going to keep me up at night. And that's not good for anybody.
00:04:44
Speaker
And that that's interesting in itself that that you've discovered that about, I guess it's about the way that you think about things and continue to rehash them later on. And you don't get to calm down or relax or yeah Get your mind off of it.
Personal Experiments for Lifestyle Improvement
00:05:00
Speaker
i i you know You've had a couple of guests on the show who talk about doing experiments with oneself. And I'm definitely someone who pays attention to, oh did that make things better or worse for me? And and trying to tease apart what are the factors.
00:05:15
Speaker
And I'm someone who struggles with insomnia. And so... teasing apart, what what do i do before bed? What do I do in the middle of the night when I can't sleep? And what works and what seems to make it worse?
00:05:27
Speaker
you know And that's tracking everything to how much did I drink before bed? you know ah when I did wake up at three zero in the morning, what was I thinking about and how did I handle that? And so i think the more we can ah pay attention to those factors. It's important to look at what the research says as well, because that can guide us like, oh, I didn't realize that might be what's affecting me.
00:05:48
Speaker
So the research is incredibly helpful that way, especially when it comes to the brain, because we can do something that could help our brain and not experience the benefit immediately, right? Because there can be cumulative effects.
00:06:02
Speaker
and And a lot of the research out there finds that, you know, if you do something for several weeks, you get an effect. But if you just do it once, you won't see an effect. And so it's also helpful to know what the research has to say, because You might try something one day and say, oh, I didn't see a difference when actually it started.
00:06:19
Speaker
It started to make a difference, but it's not enough for you to notice yet. You just you need the cumulative effect for you to really actually see it. and and But the beauty is
Long-term Benefits of Habitual Changes
00:06:28
Speaker
when you develop those long-term patterns, the effects last longer as well. So you can skip a day or even skip a couple of days and the benefits usually will continue.
00:06:36
Speaker
Oh, that's good to know, because it sure doesn't work that way with exercise, does it? No. A couple of days and suddenly you're starting again. Yeah, yeah. Exercise is tough that way, especially if you travel, right? then And then exercise, you know, squeezing it into days when you took had a ah red eye or you're just jet lagged, all of those things can make it hard.
00:06:56
Speaker
Something you said um caught my attention. talked about, you know, if I wake up at three in the morning, what was I thinking about? One of the problems that I have with the things people have said to me about how to have good sleep hygiene is...
00:07:13
Speaker
you you take things away from the bedroom. You don't have things in there that are going to bother you and that sort of thing. And um one of my doctors one time said, stop looking at the clock when you wake up. Just close your eyes and go back to sleep. You don't need to know what time it is. If it's time to get up, your alarm will wake you.
00:07:31
Speaker
But how do you remember your dream? Like someone else will say, oh, if you wake up in the night and you've had a dream, get your journal out and write it down. Well, then I'm awake. hail that yeah That's the sleep.
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah. And there the advice on this can be really contradictory, right? Because ah so one piece of advice you'll hear frequently is, you know, don't don't look at your phone right before bed and don't look at it in the middle of the night.
00:07:56
Speaker
And then there are all these wonderful apps that are to help you fall asleep, which are either on your phone or on some device. Right. And so and I find some of those apps extremely helpful. So, you know, what I've what I've tried to do is then find out, OK, is there something in between? So, for instance, one of the reasons your phone is so detrimental to sleep is that it has a lot of blue light and blue light.
00:08:20
Speaker
activates the pineal gland, which makes it feel like daylight. So even though your phone doesn't emit as much light as daylight, the amount of blue light it has signals to your brain that it's time to wake up. And so one of the small things that I've done that's really improved my sleep, you can look online for how do I turn on a red light filter on my phone.
00:08:38
Speaker
And so this is something I do now every night, about an hour before bed, I turn on a red light filter on my phone so that it's not as blue, it'll have everything will have kind of a red, reddish tone to it. And I leave that on all night so that if I do wake up in the middle of the night and want to use one of these sleep apps when I bring it up on my phone, the whole thing looks kind of reddish, but that's okay. As long as I know what I'm looking for, I don't you know need to be able to see any blue colors.
00:09:01
Speaker
And it really helps with my sleep. i I can get to sleep a lot faster. So I think, you know had it but but it can be tricky to find like that piece of advice that falls in between the two extremes, right? That don't have any don't have your phone it around at all. Oh, but use a sleep app. So it's a Put it in the other room and turn it up loud. i yeah my And if you have a partner in the room, then that doesn't work either. Right.
00:09:28
Speaker
So is the is the red light app, is that different than, say, turning your screen to the dark mode instead of light mode? Does that make a difference? Yeah, so it's not an app.
Techniques for Better Sleep
00:09:38
Speaker
It's basically going in there. So there there is a dark mode, but it doesn't filter out blue light on most phones, at least not not on my iPhone.
00:09:45
Speaker
So there's actually something that you can set on your iPhone. I've got it set. You can just do a search on Google um or whatever search browser you like to use.
00:09:55
Speaker
um how do I put on a red light filter on my phone? And what I have it done, the way I've done it is basically I press one button on my phone three times and I've set it so that when I press that button three times, it turns on the red light filter. So I don't have to go through and search for it every time. I've just basically tied it to a button.
00:10:13
Speaker
And what's beautiful about that is in addition to the dark mode, which is basically lowering the amount of light, it's also filtering out the blue lights. um So it is slightly different than dark mode. Yeah.
00:10:23
Speaker
Okay. But it's worth looking into. It's a great yeah great i think a great little trick to know about. And it has to do with brain science. where we and We know that that you're basically messing with your circadian rhythms if you see blue light at three in the morning.
00:10:38
Speaker
You're basically telling your body that you've seen the sunrise. That's not what we want if we want to get back to sleep. And of course, your body believes what you tell it. Sure. These circadian rhythms are powerful. And, you know, we're recording this in in winter.
00:10:56
Speaker
And, you know, most of us are finding that the days are shorter than they used to be. And that can be both a benefit in terms of, you know, getting but potentially more rest, but it can also mean that We find ourselves awake when it's dark. And it's, you know, if we want to go for a walk when it's light out, we're having to wait until after 7am to do that.
00:11:17
Speaker
That can be, you know, it might, we can really mess with your opportunities to get exercise, which is also really good for your brain.
00:11:25
Speaker
So I've got a couple of questions to ask about a variety of different things. And I don't know if they're going to be in the book that you wrote, because there are 14 ways to improve your life. So maybe we can talk about your book a little bit and see if, if you hit on any of the things I want to ask.
00:11:44
Speaker
Sure. So yeah, what would you
Introduction to the Book 'Sharp'
00:11:47
Speaker
like to know about my book? I can tell you a bit about it. But if there are specific things you're curious about, I'm happy to, to be responsive. Let's just start with what the book is about, and then we'll go into specific ways, maybe. or Maybe you can tell us about one or two of them.
00:12:02
Speaker
That would be great. So the book, you know, I've called it 14 Simple Ways to Improve Your Life with Brain Science, but really... My editors and I have agreed it's really 52 ways.
00:12:14
Speaker
ah But the we are we stuck with 14 because there's 14 different chapters. So there are, for instance, two chapters on how to deal with stress, how to deal with chronic stress, stress that lasts several weeks versus how to deal with acute stress.
00:12:29
Speaker
you know You're going to your in-laws today and going to you to your in-laws tends to be triggering. so you know how can you even How can you prepare for that event so it's less stressful for you and you can cope better in the moment? and so There are a couple of chapters on stress. There's a chapter on decision-making. I have a previous book on the decision-making. I was very excited to dive into the neuroscience of decision-making.
00:12:52
Speaker
There's a chapter on focus, how to get more focused and be less distracted. There's chapter on improving your memory. even a chapter on how to make fewer mistakes. What is, you know, what are some strategies for making fewer mistakes in life?
00:13:05
Speaker
It's ah what I what I did is I looked at basically what is where of the areas where neuroscience can give us really practical advice? and tried to dive into those.
00:13:16
Speaker
Then there are other topics where I know there's some great neuroscience, but so many other people have done such great writing on them that I decided to leave them out. For instance, I could have included a chapter on sleep because sleep is so essential, especially as we age.
00:13:29
Speaker
And it's something that our our bodies seem to struggle with much more so than they did when we were younger. But i just I chose, for instance, to leave out sleep simply because so many people have written about it and I was finding I couldn't add something new. I was really trying with the book to offer places where you might not have heard this anywhere else. And I i want you to know want you to hear it from me or to to at least hear it at all and and to provide insights into you know some of the surprising findings that are out there that people might not know about. you know I think everybody knows I should eat healthier.
00:13:59
Speaker
but Right. But are there specific things that you could be consuming that could make a difference, um not just, you know, lowering your fat and cholesterol? um So I tried to dive into what some of those specific things might be.
00:14:12
Speaker
And what is there? what what can What should I be eating that I'm not eating? It's going to help brain. Yeah.
Green Tea and Dementia Risk
00:14:18
Speaker
So one that I found surprising in terms of the strength of the benefits, it's not so much something to eat, but something to drink. And that is your brain has a favorite beverage, but probably it's water. Yeah.
00:14:29
Speaker
ah Besides staying hydrated, the the key beverage that your brain likes best is tea, which I found fascinating, especially i'm in Seattle where there are a lot of coffee drinkers. ah Tea has huge benefits to your brain, especially green tea.
00:14:42
Speaker
um The general thing that tea does for your brain, any kind of tea, black tea, lung, basically any of the caffeinated teas is it will improve your focus. So if it's a day when you know you really wanna be less distracted than usual and really be focused and and in your best zone,
00:15:00
Speaker
ah drink tea that morning over coffee because the combination of caffeine and ah an amino acid called L-theanine will really improve your focus and make it easier to shut out distractions. It's also L-theanine improves multitasking.
00:15:13
Speaker
We're all, we're all not, none of us are very good at multitasking, but tea will improve your ability to do it well. And green tea is especially important as we age. ah One team of researchers, for estimate that for every green tea you drink on a daily basis, you lower your risk of dementia by about 5%.
00:15:35
Speaker
So yeah, that's, it's great to be able to put a number on it. So And they find that that, you know, one cup, great, two cup, great, but three cups really begins to make a difference in terms of something called white white matter lesions in your brain really reduces that, which contributes to dementia as well.
00:15:52
Speaker
So that's now my goal is to drink three cups of green tea each day. And I've really had to experiment because when I first read this, I'm like, oh, I don't like it.
00:16:02
Speaker
And I found if i add if I add some sweetener and if I get a fruity green tea and not um I don't like matcha, you know, so So experiment. This isn't, you know, in fact, get online if you like to shop online. Now's good time to find great sales and look for a variety tea green tea variety pack. And that way you can try several different green teas and chances are you'll find one that you like.
00:16:23
Speaker
so So drinking green tea, big benefits. And for some reason, we don't hear that much about it. Interesting. Do you like tea? I do not like tea. No coffee either. So I was really hoping you were going to tell me white wine would be the thing.
00:16:41
Speaker
i wish, but no, sadly not. You talked about um reducing dementia a little bit. So that kind of goes into one of my questions was about um knowing whether or not The symptoms you're seeing or the the supposed symptoms you're seeing are really a problem or whether it's just aging as you know as we get a little bit older. My mom was always saying, oh, well, you know, your uncle is showing kind of some signs of
00:17:12
Speaker
Some signs of dementia. he's you know He's losing his memory. He's not very good at it. Mom, he's 95. He can have some memory loss. So how do you tell the difference between the regular signs of memory loss or are there regular signs of memory loss? it Is there some memory loss that's normal or is it all kind of degenerating abnormally?
Normal Aging vs. Dementia Signs
00:17:39
Speaker
So i I find it's really helpful to give people two lists of three, three things that are normal with aging, that are changes that might be concerning, but are actually just normal part of aging and not a sign of concern.
00:17:53
Speaker
And then three, that if these happen to you, you should um have a talk with your doctor so that they can do more extensive ah cognitive tests. So let's talk about the three that are totally normal, even though they might be alarming the first time they happen to you.
00:18:06
Speaker
So the first one is what's called the tip of the tongue phenomenon. And that would be you're you're trying to come up with a word or someone's name and it just isn't coming to you. You know, you see someone on the bus and you know it's your doctor's receptionist and you've seen her so many times, oh, but you're seeing her on the bus or you're seeing her in the grocery store and it's not coming to you, whereas later that day, all of a sudden it'll come right back to you you're oh, it's Elizabeth, how could I have forgotten, right?
00:18:33
Speaker
So someone out of context um or a word that's not coming to you and it's often most often nouns. In fact, I heard a great surgeon in an interview recently saying that she was in surgery, she was and she's in her mid fifties.
00:18:45
Speaker
And she said, she turned to the nurse next to her and during in the middle of surgery and said, hand me the thingy to grasp, for the grasping thingy. her And she's doing this motion with her hands.
00:18:56
Speaker
And it comes to her like a minute later, forceps, of course, right? um But it was a cute moment where this is obviously a word that's very familiar to her and just, she blanked in the moment. So tip of the tongue phenomena phenomenon, very normal.
00:19:09
Speaker
Another one that's very normal, this isn't going to this doesn't have a great name, but cognitive scientists call it mild forgetfulness. And where this, I think most of us experience mild forgetfulness is we walk into a context and we can't remember why we're in that context.
00:19:23
Speaker
So you walk into the garage, you're like, wait, why am I in the garage? Or you open up the refrigerator and you're like, wait, what did I need out the refrigerator? do You have to back up and look on the counter. Oh, right, right. I need this.
00:19:34
Speaker
Right. um And so it'll come to you when you recreate the situation right before you went into that, right? If you go into the garage, as soon as you go back in the house, you realize, oh, right, I went out there to get this particular kind of screwdriver, but you'll you're thinking about something else as you enter the garage and you forget.
00:19:50
Speaker
So that's mild forgetfulness, completely normal, as long as it comes back to you later. And the third one is that multitasking becomes harder. we become much more easily distracted as we get older. And that's, we've known that for decades now.
00:20:03
Speaker
But as a result, it can be harder to multitask than it used to be. So my great example of this, I'm 56 right right now And I love to entertain and have people over for dinner.
00:20:14
Speaker
And what is a typical thing is people arrive and I'm still cooking and I ask people, oh, can can you chop some of the carrots? Oh, you know, would you mind stirring this while I prep this? And um I'm going back and forth between chatting with them and catching up and looking at the recipe and back and forth, back and forth. Well, now when I have people over for dinner and they want to chat while we're preparing dinner together, I'll be hold on, hold on, let me look at the recipe, hold on.
00:20:37
Speaker
i I find it much harder to go back and forth between I'll say, can you just hold on to that story? I really want to hear but I need to see what the next step is. Right. And so it's kind of humorous because <unk> ah you I'm always trying new recipes. That part's not new, but but like I find it harder to listen to them and look at the recipe at the same time. So that multi.
00:20:54
Speaker
Yeah, that multitasking has gone down for me. So that's all those three things, tip of the tongue phenomenon, my mild forgetfulness, where you kind of a context, you can't remember why you've, why you're there, and then you can reconstruct it pretty quickly, or multitasking is harder, all three normal.
00:21:12
Speaker
The three that would really be reason to have conversation with your doctor, one would be you go to a familiar place and you feel lost. So you go to the mall, your favorite mall, you're going to your favorite store and you walk in the mall and then you can't remember where which direction to turn in to go to your favorite store.
00:21:30
Speaker
right So a place that's familiar and you feel lost in it. um A second one that would be really concerning would be you... start substituting words. And I don't mean that you that you go to say, um this is my mug, and instead I say my glass, but i go to say, this is my mug, and instead I say, this is my beaker, right? It's definitely not a beaker, right? Where you really, something to really unusual word substitution, and particularly if you didn't substitute words when you were younger. If you've been doing this since you were 12, we're not concerned about it. But if you have strange word substitutions that start happening, then that would be concerning.
00:22:06
Speaker
And then the third one would be you're doing something very routine and you can't remember the next step. So you've had the same coffee machine for seven years now and you go to make coffee in the morning and you're looking at the different things and you can't remember what to do next with the coffee machine.
00:22:23
Speaker
That would be really concerning. So familiar routines, you can't remember how to perform those routines. Familiar places, you get lost. Or ah you do you do word substitutions, or word just never comes to you.
00:22:36
Speaker
you you don't You can't think of it now, and you can't think of it later. It feels like that word is gone. um So those would be three that would be very concerning. So should people be alarmed if they if it happens to them once?
00:22:48
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I've heard different people have ah different perspectives on this. So I know some people that once they happen once, they're like, you know what, I'm going to talk with my doctor. And then they feel more comfortable because they can do more complete testing.
00:23:00
Speaker
Other people take the approach that this is like your check engine light coming on on your car. And if it only blinks on once and then goes off, then all right, we're going to keep an eye out for that light, but that's okay, it went off.
00:23:12
Speaker
Whereas obviously, if it keeps coming on, you need to take it to a service center to to figure out what the problem is. So up to you as to your comfort level. But the research is clear that catching things early, even as scary as it might be, catching things early, you can do much more to, if there is a problem, you can do much more to slow it down and even halt the progression.
00:23:35
Speaker
There's, in fact, a book called The End of Alzheimer's. um there's He's out of the United States. Dale, I'm forgetting his name. I'll i'll send it to you afterwards. But there's a there's a ah growing science to indicate that alice you know many of us know cancer survivors, but few of us can say we know many Alzheimer's survivors, right?
00:23:55
Speaker
um But we're getting to a point now where at least some scientists are finding that if you catch Alzheimer's early enough, you can stop it and and even reverse it to the point where people can go back.
00:24:06
Speaker
but But it has to be caught very early on. You can't let it progress to later stages. Interesting. So... Can you talk about what what kinds of things you can do that might help support sure or keep you from getting into that position?
00:24:22
Speaker
Yes, definitely. so um So first of all, just I'll give you some quick statistics.
Lifestyle Changes to Mitigate Dementia Risk
00:24:30
Speaker
I'm becoming, even though... I didn't write this book specifically for people who are thinking about dementia or Alzheimer's. um because This is becoming a personal personal mission of mine because as and the old statistics used to be that in the United States, one out of every nine people after the age of 65 would develop Alzheimer's.
00:24:50
Speaker
And as of January of 2025, a study came out showing that those numbers were really underestimating the the numbers that it's now um estimated, at least in the United States, I don't know in Canada, but in the United States, 42% of Americans will develop Alzheimer's after the age of 55 at some point in their lifetime. So four out of 10, so much higher than we thought. And that's dementia, sorry, dementia broadly, Alzheimer's is more specific.
00:25:16
Speaker
So I am on a mission to educate people on, well, what can you do? Because therere ah says this is concerning and and we can opt the you are not destined to have this. This is something that lifestyle changes. And even if you have a genetic risk, lifestyle changes can really reduce your chances of getting Alzheimer's and dementia.
00:25:35
Speaker
So a couple of things. um Green tea is a great one. In terms of let's talk daily and and weekly, so on a daily basis, something that you can do is ah meditation.
00:25:47
Speaker
So fabulous research, many labs have shown that mindfulness meditation actually ah can grow new neurons, especially in your hippocampus. The hippocampus is a brain structure deep inside of your brain that is responsible for memory.
00:26:02
Speaker
And after age 40, we lose about 5% of our hippocampus every decade after age 40. So at age 50, you might not notice. Age 60, you're probably starting to begin to notice. And that's just normal brain loss of that area.
00:26:16
Speaker
The good news is it's you can put neurons back in that area if you just know how. And one of the strategies for putting neurons back in that area is... mindfulness meditation.
00:26:27
Speaker
um And a single mindfulness meditation won't do it. But a regular practice of about 10 minutes a day, and maybe five days a week, and you get hippocamp hippocampal volume, meaning you're growing new neurons, will will increase after just a couple of months.
00:26:42
Speaker
I think as short as six weeks is what i've as of the research I've seen. So that's incredible, right? that You can reverse the loss of neurons. so And you can start this at 60, you can start it at 70, you can start it at 80 and begin to put neurons back.
00:26:57
Speaker
And mindfulness meditation, ah my favorite app right now is a free one called Healthy Minds. It's out of University of Wisconsin. And I love that it's free. And I love that they have active meditations. It's it's developed by a neuroscientist, Richie Davidson.
00:27:12
Speaker
And he he and his team have developed, if you're someone who's like my husband who can't picture sitting still and meditating for 10 minutes because he's very active, they have walking meditations, they have active meditations. And because it's developed by a neuroscientist, you can trust that they've rigorously tested this and its benefits. So healthy minds, and it's um that's is my favorite go-to. So that would be daily mindfulness meditation, 10 minutes.
00:27:38
Speaker
And then weekly, dance classes, right?
Dance and Brain Health
00:27:41
Speaker
So in terms of things that people, I know, right? When I ask people, I just did a town hall, and i was asking the audience, what's one thing that neuroscientists ah around the world have found will help you grow new neurons in your hippocampus and improve your memory? And, you know, people are guessing crossword puzzles and ah learning a new language. And these things, none of these things are hurt.
00:28:04
Speaker
they they They, in fact, they can help. Learning is really important. But one that's been tested and proven again and again is to take a dance class. And it will increase hippocampal volume. It'll put neurons back in your hippocampus.
00:28:18
Speaker
And it's it's important. The class part is important, right? So you're not just dancing in your kitchen when no, you know, nobody's watching. Yeah. know I know, right? That would be lovely. it doesn't hurt because that's exercise.
00:28:30
Speaker
But what's happening with a dance class is you've got three things. You've got the movement, so you've got exercise, so that increases blood flow, and there's a bunch of different benefits to exercise to your brain. There's the memory component because you're learning, right? You're having to memorize steps.
00:28:44
Speaker
And there's a social component in that, you know, you're bumping into people or you have a dance partner or You, you, there's, there's a social component and that, that trifecta seems to be really important.
00:28:55
Speaker
And you can't, again, a single dance class won't do it, but they find that six months of dance class have significant impact improvements in terms of growing new neurons. So that's one that I don't think people know about. So when people now ask me, what are you going to do? I'm starting to talk about retirement. And when people ask me, what do I want to do in retirement? My first answer is always, I got to find a dance class. I'm going to take a dance lesson. Yes.
00:29:17
Speaker
Isn't that fun? I'm going to let some friends know that they're doing the right thing because I've got i've got some friends in pickleball who are taking dance lessons. Yes. And even Zumba, right? Like they're, you know, you can find, that you can find the flavor of this that might work for you.
00:29:32
Speaker
Interesting. I'm, a I have no rhythm. Dancing is hard. I agree. Dancing is hard, right? And it can be embarrassing, but that that social, thing very embarrassing, but that social component, you know, it can be, uh,
00:29:48
Speaker
can can can be refreshing. Hopefully you would be able to laugh at yourself, right? here If you're plumsier than you want to be. There's nothing else you can do. Which is the mindfulness approach. Does the mindfulness meditation, does that have any appeal to you?
00:30:03
Speaker
It does. It does. I'm especially intrigued by the active meditation because i do have trouble just sitting right now. 10 minutes I can do, but for any more than that, I tend to fall asleep actually. So it's yeah a little too meditative perhaps.
00:30:23
Speaker
Sure. Right. Right. Or yeah, you might just might need more sleep. ah the The looking into healthy minds in there and um what you can do is when you're, um ah they they have a variety of meditations, but they have a program that you basically can do over many, many sessions. And each time it tells you what the next lesson is. And is it a lesson or is it a meditation?
00:30:45
Speaker
And when it comes up, when there's a meditation to do, it'll give you the option. Do you want five minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 30? Like you have, first of all, you get to dial in. It's not set that it's seven minutes. Instead, you pick how long you've got. So if you're going for a long walk, you could do 30 minutes.
00:31:00
Speaker
And then you tell it, is it a sitting meditation or active meditation? And then the audio guides you accordingly based on whether you're sitting or whether you're moving. So I, you know, I just, I love it because I'm finding I'm meditating twice as often now because, for instance, today when we get done, i will have 20 minutes before my next meeting. I will do a 10-minute active meditation in my neighborhood, right? Even if it's raining, guess.
00:31:23
Speaker
pop in my AirPods, go for a walk, and it ah it will refresh me for my next meeting. But I also know I'm doing a big brain benefit too. guess you kind of have to be careful where you're walking. If you're spending your your walk thinking about something else, you don't want to be walking out into traffic.
00:31:43
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes. Be safe. I mean, it's not going to ask you to close your eyes or anything. um and ah And in fact, what's beautiful about it is with a lot of the meditations on the Healthy Minds app, it will ask you to tune into your environment.
00:31:55
Speaker
So it will ask you to like, okay, I want you to tune into the specific smells around you. Okay, now I want you to tune into things that you can hear. So it will often ground you in the environment that you're in. Not all of them, but some of them do. Others, though for instance, I'm doing one right now that's That's about compassion. And the the lesson plan, them the part of the sequence that I'm on is right now is about compassion. So i'm I'm thinking about people that it's easy for me to be kind to versus people that it's harder for me to be kind to. And and how can I like have a feeling of compassion for all of them, not just the people that I i like to take care of?
00:32:31
Speaker
Interesting. i I haven't, I've experienced a few different types of meditation, but nothing like what you've described there, where you're thinking about, you know, how to change. it's It's all just relax and think about your body and keep the thoughts away or acknowledge them when they come. And, you know, you're not thinking about something. So this will be interesting. I'll have to give it a shot.
00:32:54
Speaker
yeah It's really interesting. and And what's really nice is that with that that the the course that they have, it alternates between here's a lesson and the lesson or the lessons are five to eight minutes long versus here's a meditation. Again, you get to pick how long the meditation is.
00:33:07
Speaker
And the lessons, they do very much like we're having the conversation now where they say, oh, there's research by this researcher. Let's hear from them. And that researcher talks for a few minutes about here's an important finding. And so it's really nice because you get you get to learn about some of the science and And why the meditation I'm about to do could be helpful. So it doesn't just feel like it's woo-woo out there. Why am i why am I doing this? Instead, it's grounded in like, I just learned that it has this benefit. Okay, now I'm more motivated. Or if you were skeptical, you come in with a little less skepticism about the activity you're about to do. So I'm i'm really impressed with the work they've done. Yeah.
00:33:42
Speaker
You said healthy mind. Healthy minds. Healthy minds. Yep. And um it's free. you know, they they accept donations, I'm sure. But it's great. I also have a Calm subscription. I have a bunch of paid meditation apps that I also use. But this is this is my go-to in terms of really investing in my my own well-being.
00:34:05
Speaker
I have tried some of the nighttime stories on calm before. What do you think? Some of them are good. Some of them, I can't listen to the person. Exactly. For me, it's usually about the voice, right?
00:34:18
Speaker
And it's really interesting. want to hear that. I don't want to hear that. not going to put me to sleep. that's It's grating or they're talking too fast, right? And so this is where, yep, the red filter has been helpful because if I start a story, they're like, uh-uh, nope.
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, that's not the story sounded appealing. And it's not, I can go back in the app, and I'm not spending too long looking at a blue screen. But but I'm with you. I like the calm stories. And I often listen to one well well past its a enjoyment point, but it's simply a voice that I'm finding soothing.
00:34:50
Speaker
Yep. And usually yeah if I turn on an audio book and I'm listening to that, I'll end up falling asleep. And then the audio book keeps going, of course. So in the morning, you've got to go back and figure out where you were.
00:35:04
Speaker
if I put on these sleep things, I end up listening to the whole thing. and it's so frustrating. don't know why that happens. Because you enjoy it so much, perhaps? Is that it?
00:35:15
Speaker
Possibly. But I enjoy the books that I'm listening to, too. I just can't stay awake. no Yeah, somebody needs to solve that problem where there's some feedback that once I fall asleep, the book stops reading. would be correct
00:35:34
Speaker
So we're going to be doing lots of things, I think, to help with our improving the number of neurons in our brain. We're going to be drinking deep green tea and we're going to be dancing more. And mindfulness meditation is a good one. Yep. And another another really important one has to do with stress reduction.
Stress Reduction Techniques
00:35:53
Speaker
so you know, we we might think of stress as something that's unpleasant in the moment and it interferes with sleep or it makes us irritable. But one of the things that's research is clear on is if you have, you know, a little bit of cortisol is great. it It gets you off the couch. It gets you going. cortis Cortisol gets you moving.
00:36:12
Speaker
But elevated levels of cortisol over a long period of time are really bad for you. And that's another thing that will shrink your hippocampus. So elevate, you know, if you have high stress levels, something is not resolving and not resolving and not resolving, oh that's going to be bad for your brain.
00:36:28
Speaker
So finding ways to reduce your stress levels and maybe the meditation will do that. But I would love to, if I can show you two quick techniques for reducing stress. Sure.
00:36:39
Speaker
Yeah, okay, great. So one's one's um one's a soothing self-touch. So what you want to do is just take um your hands and put them on your chest. And just do little very small circles and pay attention to how your hands feel there.
00:36:57
Speaker
um if you have something thick on, you might not feel the warmth of your hands, but if you can feel that warmth coming through and just take... can you Sorry, I've got to break into that for a second. First, you've got to assume that there is any warmth at all in your hands. Mine are like ice.
00:37:11
Speaker
Oh, no, it's too cold. Okay, so then maybe warm your hands first. um But ah pay attention to how that that that that soothing sensation, like I could think about I'm soothing myself, this feels really good, this touch feels good.
00:37:28
Speaker
Research finds that 20 seconds of that self-touch, soothing self-touch, will reduce cortisol levels. And it can be touched from someone else too, if you have a partner that you're comfortable hugging, for instance, for 20 seconds. Not everybody has that.
00:37:44
Speaker
Or they might have a great partner, but not someone who wants to hug for 20 seconds. So that's why the soothing, though it's really nice that the science shows that 20 seconds of doing this for yourself. Or if this doesn't feel effective, maybe it's a hug, you know, where you you squeeze the tops of your shoulders.
00:37:58
Speaker
In the lab, they also have help people put their hands on their face and just close their eyes. But whatever might feel soothing to you, oh that soothing self-touch will reduce cortisol levels.
00:38:08
Speaker
So that's a really nice one. I've even done this in the line at the grocery store when I have to get someplace quickly and the line is taking too long. I do this. Yeah. I set down my little hand basket. i do this for 20 seconds and I feel much calmer. I can't make the line go any faster, but this will help.
00:38:23
Speaker
So soothing self-touch is one to know about for reducing stress levels in the immediate sense. And the other one to know about is a breathing technique, which I can demonstrate. And what I'd like to you to do, Jackie, I'm going to describe it and then we'll do it together.
00:38:40
Speaker
so I'm going to have you exhale all of your air in a second. Yeah, get comfortable. And in a second, I'm going to have you, I'll walk you through it. I'll have you exhale all of your air and then I'll have you do an inhale for a count of five, hold for a count of two and exhale for a count of seven. And we'll do it.
00:38:54
Speaker
We'll go. We'll step through it twice. And people who are listening or watching can do along with us. And um if the inhale, if you if you get to three and I'm counting out loud and you find that at three, you can't inhale anymore, just start holding your breath early. That part's not such much of a concern.
00:39:09
Speaker
And if when we do the exhale, you find it hard to like exhale that slowly, just like breathe like you're breathing on pizza, like through pursed lips. Okay. All right. Are you ready to try?
00:39:20
Speaker
Sure. Okay, great. So exhale all of your air. And inhale, two, three, four, five. Hold, two.
00:39:32
Speaker
Exhale, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Again, inhale, two, three, four, five. Hold, two.
00:39:46
Speaker
Exhale, two, three, four, five, six, seven. How do you feel?
00:39:58
Speaker
Actually, my heart started to pound a little bit when I was trying to continue to exhale. I could feel a change in me. So I'm not sure. I guess it would take a little bit of practice to reduce stress that way because it's going to feel like I'm stressing more, trying to count and and keep reducing, keep blowing yeah Yeah, good to know. Yeah. So if that's stressful, next time, maybe try four, two, six.
00:40:23
Speaker
So if a seven or basically that you want the exhale to be longer than the inhale. So if you find a seven second exhale stressful, go four, two, six, three, two, five, right? Just shorten that exhale to the point where it begins to feel relaxing.
00:40:36
Speaker
So that's helpful feedback. Yeah. Okay. probably it's just, I got to do it right. I got to do it right. Ah, yes. Yeah. There's that component too, right? You know, where we're recording is getting it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. um But what what researchers find is that long, slow exhale, when your exhale is longer than your inhale, it sends a signal to your body, to your brain actually to relax. And it increases activity in your prefrontal cortex. So you'll make better decisions. It calms the amygdala. So you you'll, as long as that long exhale isn't stressful, like it, like it could be, you get that to a point where it's nice and not stressful, it will send a signal to your brain that like, we're not under threat. And so it's, it's a really interesting way to kind of bypass and tell your brain to everything's fine because you wouldn't be breathing slowly if things were good.
00:41:23
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. ah but That's interesting because I do that when I'm, again, when I'm playing pickleball, if we're in a game and it and and it's all, we're doing lots of rallies and and everything's going and heart's pumping, when I'm going to serve, I stop and I go, there's a nice big exhale yes yeah to calm me down before I before i serve. And you know that's that's very true. The exhale helps.
00:41:50
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. you Intuitively, you've stumbled on this for yourself, right? It does. It does helps you center. Yeah. And then I also tell myself over the net, diagonal, in the course, all the things that have to happen.
00:42:04
Speaker
Otherwise, who knows where. Right. I'm excited to do pickleball. I've taken some lessons. I want to get i want to actually join, you know start showing up regularly to a court and and doing it with friends. So good for you.
00:42:18
Speaker
That exercise is going to help your brain. it Is it popular in Seattle? That's where you are? it actually um um It actually got its start in Bainbridge Island, which is an island right off of Seattle. right so um yeah So it actually originated here.
00:42:31
Speaker
So it's everywhere. And in fact, i know a lot of tennis players complain that their their courts are being taken over by pickleball players. maybe i don't know Is that true where you are as well? Yes, it's really hard to find a place to play because they're all taken up.
00:42:45
Speaker
Yes, exactly. So along with the stress and the multitasking and all that kind of thing, we um
00:42:56
Speaker
tend to feel that we're doing more things and we're doing them better if we're multitasking. And that's something that that I've had discussions with people about whether multitasking is actually...
00:43:10
Speaker
beneficial or not and my view is kind of that that it isn't if you're multitasking you're not putting your focus on anything enough to do it properly and i'm just wondering whether that's that has any basis or whether i'm just using that as an excuse not to multitask myself Well, it's scientifically backed as an excuse.
The Case for Single-tasking
00:43:31
Speaker
I'll tell you that. So what researchers have found is, you know, usually when you're multitasking, there's one task that's more important than the other. So maybe you're writing an email at the same time that you're talking to someone, right? You're going back and forth. You know, you've got your grandkids in the kitchen chatting with you while you try to text or finish an email.
00:43:48
Speaker
um And what researchers find is you're your brain, the activity in your brain associated with the main task, whatever one is more important goes down by 37% on average.
00:44:00
Speaker
So you have a lot less resources for that task. That's the most important task and mistakes go up on average 47%. So you make a lot more mistakes.
00:44:11
Speaker
You're going to make more mistakes in that email. And if it's an important email or important text, maybe you're planning something with someone you're going to type in the wrong, you got to go now go spend more time on it because you're like, made typos and you might be blaming it on the phone, but it's probably the fact that you're multitasking.
00:44:26
Speaker
multi They call it media multitasking is especially bad. So that's one reason that it's bad. Another reason that it's bad is researchers find if you multitask a lot, You'll find it harder to focus later.
00:44:39
Speaker
So I know this is especially true for people who are still working, but I know people who will say, you know, just this morning I was really scattered, but this afternoon I'm going to give myself time to focus, you know, and so maybe in retirement that's like I'm going to give myself time to really work on this project or this volunteer opportunity or whatever it might be or this you know Maybe you're writing a book and and you're going to really focus in the afternoon. The fact that you multitasked a lot in the morning, that's you know that was just what you needed to do.
00:45:04
Speaker
But the researchers find that if you multitask in the morning, it's going to be harder to focus later. You'll be more distractible. So even when you want to focus, you give yourself the luxury and the time to focus.
00:45:15
Speaker
If you've multitasked a lot, it will be harder to do. So that's another reason not to do it. yeah You rob yourself of focus later. And does it affect... Does it affect your memory anyway? Like if you're multitasking all the time and trying to do a whole bunch of things, when I do it, I tend to forget steps along the way. i and Not really affecting my memory. That's just affecting the short-term actions. But can it affect you later on?
00:45:44
Speaker
I haven't seen any longitudinal studies showing that it affects memory. what ah What researchers do find is that when people multitask, they find it harder. It's even harder to reconstruct the steps of what you were doing previously, kind of like what you're describing, right? So it diminishes memory.
00:46:04
Speaker
One way that it might do that is multitasking does read raise people's blood pressure. It's stressful, right? You may not think of it that way because you feel like I'm getting two things done, but it's making you a little stressed out.
00:46:15
Speaker
And especially for anyone who's got blood pressure concerns, like you you don't want to add to the things that risk raise your risk there. So it's it's stressful for you and stress impacts memory. So at least indirectly, it's going to affect memory. Okay.
00:46:35
Speaker
I'll keep that in mind. Yeah, yeah. it's More fuel for my argument. Do do this thing, get it done. Yeah, and the thing that I am trying to do with people is is actually say to folks, hey, look, I'm really trying to do more single tasking because it's, and I realize it's better for me, so going just get, let me single task and then I'll give you my full attention. And so I often tell, and and it's really nice because we tend to, a number of people take great pride in their ability to multitask, whereas I don't think many people take pride in their single tasking. So I'm really trying to change this language around it, that that it's good to single task and that this is something I'm going to give myself permission to do. And usually people are like, oh, of course. Yeah. yeah
00:47:17
Speaker
and then And then when I pivot to them, I'm able to really give them my full attention and people appreciate that. And that that to me is is important. And that's kind of what I'm trying to do in the focusing or or living living in the moment. It's like I want to I want to be able to focus on the person that I'm with or the thing that I'm doing and not have to be thinking about all the other things because I don't do that well.
00:47:39
Speaker
No, none of us do. And it just gets harder as we get older. So as we get older, are there any are there any good signs good sides to aging? Is there anything that gets better as we age? The brain does better?
Aging, Emotions, and Intelligence
00:47:55
Speaker
Sure. couple of things. So one thing that I think a lot of people can relate to, especially if they have teenagers or 20 somethings that they spend any time with, is that we are less emotionally reactive as we get older.
00:48:12
Speaker
So the um a brain area that's ah responsible for feeling threatened is called the amygdala or one of the brain regions responsible for feeling threatened. What they find is is that as people get older,
00:48:24
Speaker
upsetting stimuli don't trigger a strong amygdala response. Basically, you feel less reactive to bad news. So that doesn't mean you're you're not upset by the news when you hear it.
00:48:35
Speaker
But basically, whereas you might know a teenager in your life or a 20-something for whom it feels like everything is such a big deal, whereas you're like, I'm well, really, is it that big of a deal, right? And part of that's it with experience, but also simply your brain isn't reacting.
00:48:52
Speaker
the The emotional parts of your brain are not being thrown into alarm states the way they were when you were younger. So this is great news because we can take things in with more stride, right? So that's great. Our brains are much less emotionally reactive.
00:49:06
Speaker
The other thing that really improves with age is something called crystallized intelligence. So there's fluid intelligence. and That's the ability to think quickly and take in new information. And that peaks in your 30s.
00:49:17
Speaker
Whereas crystallized intelligence peaks for most people in their late 60s, some point in their 70s. And crystallized intelligence is your vocabulary, your pattern recognition, basically crystallized, meaning accumulated intelligence over time.
00:49:32
Speaker
um I think one of the reasons people enjoy crossword puzzles more later in life isn't simply because they have more time, but because they've accumulated a lot of knowledge and it's um enjoyable to discover like, oh, I actually do know that. i heard that on jeopardy at some point.
00:49:47
Speaker
And so anyway, crystallized intelligence, we we, so we get better at pattern recognition, and we get better at seeing, okay, this matters and this doesn't, right? And so that's, that's, that's one of the things the brain does better as we get older, as opposed to everything matters all the time, ah which is a young person's dilemma.
00:50:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. And I have noticed the change in my response to things. The the emotional response isn't quite the same anymore. um Yeah.
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah, right, isn't it? And it's very interesting because I remember that as a young person. I remember... ah um my grandparents' generation just seeming to shrug off things that to me seem so upsetting. and and And now as I get older, like, oh, I'm i'm in that place of like, yeah, that's okay. I mean, it's not good, but we can all be okay with that, right? We can find a way to to accept that.
00:50:41
Speaker
So it's just really, i think, a ah delightful part of getting older is that wisdom. But also simply our brains are not reactive the way they used to be. So it's it's it's part of the aging process that we can all enjoy.
00:50:57
Speaker
I find thinking about or learning about all the things that the brain does absolutely fascinating. ah It's part of the reason I went into pharmacy when I did, because i was interested in what the drugs do to the brain and how different things happen.
00:51:12
Speaker
But I could... talk with you about it for hours and hours, but I'm sure that you have things to do.
00:51:20
Speaker
As do you. or Before we ah finish things off, is there anything you'd like to talk about anything going on in your life that people might be interested in? I am so excited. Thank you for asking. i have got a kid's book, a kid's version of Sharp. So the, know, the adult book looks like this and the kid's book looks like this. It's called Best Brain Ever. And it comes out December 2nd and it's from middle schoolers. So 11 to 13 year olds. And basically it's a middle schoolers version version of the adult book.
00:51:48
Speaker
um And so there are some topics that are the same, like how to how to get focused because kids need to focus on their homework and they have many distractions. But then there are some topics that aren't in the adult book, like how to make more friends because 11 to 13 is a key time for kids to want more friends and to want closer friendships. A big transition happens as you move into middle school.
00:52:10
Speaker
And so i'm um this is my first kid's book. It was really fun to work with a children's editor to translate. And and it's neuroscience-based, but it's got a fun brain character that's that yeah guides you through the book.
00:52:23
Speaker
Anyway, it's ah it was a really delightful project, and it's got cute cartoons in it. And I feel it's... i'm hoping I'm hoping to inspire some new neuroscientists out there. And it'll be available on Amazon?
00:52:35
Speaker
Amazon, yep. um Online, whatever, as well as hopefully you'll be able to find it in bookstores, but definitely online retail retailers, Amazon as of December 2nd. So it's coming up soon. Nice. That's exciting.
00:52:45
Speaker
Thank you.
00:52:50
Speaker
No, I'm not going to say that. We will cut that part out. Sure.
00:52:55
Speaker
Is there anything specific or even anything in general that you'd like to say about brain health or staying sharp or anything like that as a final kind of note for people?
00:53:08
Speaker
I think one thing that's really good to know is your best brain days don't have to be behind you. i think as we age, we tend to assume that are are we were sharpest in our 20s or our 30s or whatever it might have been.
00:53:23
Speaker
and And yet if you take some some practices, you know, adding green tea into your life, taking a dance class, finding a mindfulness meditation practice that works for you. taking Making these small behavioral changes can make you sharper today and sharper well into the future.
00:53:42
Speaker
It's good to know that the best of our life isn't behind us, which is what I'm trying to let everybody know. Thank you very much for being with me today. i I found it really interesting and I'm sure that other people have as well.
00:53:55
Speaker
Thank you so much, Jackie. It's just you're you're providing such a wonderful service for so many. So I'm grateful to be here. Thanks. And that's it. So what I was, what I was going to say, and I'm going to see if I can adjust my schedule, um, was that the book will be the, the information will be in the show notes, but the way my schedule is right now, this isn't going to come out until. Oh, until after December. Yes. Right. Right. Yeah.
00:54:22
Speaker
Yeah. I realized that after I said it, I was like, Oh no, chances are this is not coming out until January or something like that. thats Yeah. So, but I, um,
00:54:33
Speaker
I'm thinking that what I'm going to start doing, I've got a newsletter that goes out, know, telling people who the guest is for this week, but I think I'm going to start writing down, you know, here are the upcoming ones and, and.
00:54:46
Speaker
That way, that kind of information will go out a little bit early too. But I'm going to take a look at my schedule because everyone so far has said they know there's no reason for their interview to be at any given time. And I'll see if I can get yours in so that it's it's in there before Christmas.
00:55:04
Speaker
Oh, that's so nice. Well, thank you. If it works, great. If it doesn't, I appreciate production schedules. So okay either way. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure I can. Thank you. That's really generous of you.
00:55:16
Speaker
And I, like I said, I really appreciate you coming. I find it really, really fascinating. I've always been excited or or interested in what the brain does and and how we how it affects everything.
00:55:27
Speaker
Me too. So you were you were a pharmacist? Is that what did before you retired? Nice. I started out actually, I was a chemical engineer because taking organic chemistry was as close as I could come to doing the things I wanted to do.
00:55:41
Speaker
Yes, right. And then you then you got to do it later. But yeah, so college that's yeah I was, yeah I was in the military. So the ah life sciences weren't really an option.
00:55:53
Speaker
Oh, I can see that. Yeah, yeah. Well, good job. And I just really love the slogan at the beginning of your podcast, or at least the episode that I was listening to earlier about, you know, what, you know, you're retiring to rather than retiring from her like that. Yeah, yeah, it's nice.
00:56:08
Speaker
That's really important to me. i'd say Someone said, like I've got my shirt beyond retirement. And someone looked at me. I walked into our our local legion and ah one of the men there, who was beyond retirement. Isn't that death?
00:56:24
Speaker
It's like, okay, but maybe 30 years from now, are you planning to die now because you're retired? Wow. Well, I think I have. Somebody who's missing out on something. That's too bad. I hope he listens to your show.
00:56:43
Speaker
Yeah. People at work who say, oh, I can't retire because my job is my life. I feel as bad for them because it's important to like your work. Yeah. It's not important for it to be at your life. Yeah.
00:56:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, we we need more. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you. Like I said, you're doing a huge service here. Oh, thank you. I really enjoyed our conversation. It was. I did too. Thank you.
00:57:08
Speaker
Thank you, Jackie. Yeah. And I hope it's helpful to your listeners and your viewers. Yeah, I'm sure. All right. Thanks so much. Take care. Bye bye.