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00:00:01
Why Christian Coaches Struggle to Sell (And the Pattern Jesus Used)
29 Plays16 days ago
In this episode, Ken Freire sits down with Christian coach and strategist Kevin Weis to talk about building a coaching business with integrity, simplicity, and peace—especially while raising a young (and rapidly growing) family. Kevin shares the origin of his “Contrarian Way” framework—Belong → Believe → Become—and how it maps to marketing, sales, and offer design without manipulation or high-pressure tactics.
Timestamps
• 0:01–6:55 — Five kids under five + the adoption story (home births, adopting twins, loss + new baby, and faith through chaos)
• 6:55–11:54 — Kevin’s business journey (financial coaching → network marketing → brick-and-mortar fitness → marketing agency → coaching)
• 11:54–21:31 — The “Contrarian Way” framework: Belong → Believe → Become (how Jesus communicates transformation and how it maps to business)
• 21:31–31:04 — One message, one funnel (tree analogy: leaves/branches → one trunk; “all roads lead to one core invitation”)
• 31:04–40:23 — Integrity in high-ticket coaching (manipulative tactics, pricing transparency, and the 3 alignments: person/process/product)
• 40:23–49:15 — A no–sales-call sales process (content → long-form → one core video → DM → info doc; fewer refunds, higher retention)
• 50:01–54:10 — The Fast Five (experiments, what’s in flux, no goals this year, industry shift toward deeper relationships, legacy focus on faith)
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Transcript
00:00:01
Ken Freire
Welcome back to another episode of Solo Scaled. And today have a good friend, Kevin Weiss, with me. Kevin, we have started to get to know each other rather well through Facebook, posting, having similar sales philosophy, similar faith background. I'm excited to have you on the show, man. Before we go into your origin story, just kind of walk us through what do you currently do for people?
00:00:36
Kevin Weis
Right now, I've had some other businesses, but right now I help Christian coaches be able to grow their business, whatever type of coaching business they're in, to just try and have more peace in how they do things and also profit, not just financial profit, but profit for the kingdom too.
00:00:53
Ken Freire
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
00:00:55
Ken Freire
Now, one of the ways that we hit it off was, if I remember correctly, you have five kids under five, right?
00:01:00
Kevin Weis
Yeah, it's wild.
00:01:03
Ken Freire
Yeah, like I think you and I were texting each other back and forth. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I just had my fifth kid, you know, all under eight. And that's typically a lot. And you're like, dude, I get it. I have five under five. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, you must have twins in the mix.
00:01:15
Ken Freire
And you're like, just tell everybody that quick story of like your your your family formation.
00:01:21
Kevin Weis
Quick story. I'm going to try and keep it quick because it could be really long. But I used to not want to have kids. So my family was kind of a blended family.
00:01:31
Kevin Weis
It was my mom and my dad both had previous marriages. And in each one, they had two sons and a daughter.
00:01:35
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:01:38
Kevin Weis
They got divorced, got together, and then couple years later had me. my closest sibling is 12 years older than me. My oldest is probably like 30-something, and she never had kids. And so when I was growing up, it was almost like I was – I had these older brothers, but they were quite a bit older than me. So in the house, it was just me. And so I had always thought like – you know, I don't know if I'm going to have kids.
00:02:02
Kevin Weis
I hadn't really ever had to think about brothers or sisters or helping people. And so I kind of, you know, selfish basically.
00:02:10
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:10
Kevin Weis
I'm like, I just want to be able to do my thing whenever I want. And so when my wife and I met in college and we got married, we started talking about kids and, I'm like, okay, well, maybe I'll have one kid. And she's like, well, I have a brother and it was really awesome having like this built-in playmate. So we should have at least two. And so like, okay, we have, we ended up having two and both of the births, we did home birth and they were really hard on her physically. And so after our second born came, we're like, we're not going to have any more kids. This is just like, it's, it's too hard. I don't want to put her life at risk and,
00:02:48
Kevin Weis
So fast forward six months later, she's rocking our son at night God tells her, I want you to adopt twins.
00:02:58
Ken Freire
Oh, joy.
00:02:59
Kevin Weis
And she's like, you know, kind of moles on it. She doesn't tell me right away. And she keeps having this, you know, this recurring message. And so finally she tells me, and I'm like, you're nuts. We already decided we're not going to more kids. Like adoption was never even a plan. Like part of our plan, there wasn't even a desire for that. just kind of came out of nowhere. And so fast forward, probably a couple months later, I decided to go to this prayer night at church. And I'm like, I'm just going to go see what happens. I've never been to one before. And was kind of hazy.
00:03:31
Kevin Weis
know, it was at the end of the day and, you I was tired. And so there was a, you know, worship team and, you know, people in there. So I just went and sat in a chair and like not really paying attention to anything. And all of a sudden, it's like everything became quiet.
00:03:47
Kevin Weis
And I heard the worship team sing the song, say the words, give the orphan a home.
00:03:55
Kevin Weis
And man, rocked me. Like it was the confirmation that I needed. So I went home and I told my wife and I'm like, yeah, this is where he wants us to go.
00:04:06
Kevin Weis
So we started the journey of adoption, no planning, no preparation. We didn't save for it. It wasn't like, you know, we didn't really have a problem having kids of our own or anything.
00:04:15
Ken Freire
you
00:04:16
Kevin Weis
It was just this thing. Like we're, we're trying to walk it out faithfully. And, Crazy, just amazing things happen through that. Two years later, end up meeting these twin boys the night that they're born. And a couple days later, we get to bring them home.
00:04:32
Kevin Weis
And what I didn't tell you is that every time we had kids, including with this adoption, we had a lot of really big life things happen like health scares or big giant financial things or family relations, or just like logistics of life type stuff get screwed with. And so a couple of months after we adopt them, I told my wife, like, you know, it just seems like every time we try and grow our family that we're being attacked, like almost like Satan sees our family as a threat for some reason.
00:05:10
Kevin Weis
And if you know me, I'm a little bit rebellious at times.
00:05:13
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:05:14
Kevin Weis
And so I'm like, we should have more kids. And so, you know, we were like, okay, she's on board. so January, this was just this past January, we get pregnant and then we lose that baby just a couple days later. And it was just like, I mean, there's, it was early, but there's something about that. And then very next month, pregnant again. It's just like this roller coaster. And so we just have baby number five a couple months back. And it has been wild. Just so cool, so beautiful, but also super challenging at the same time.
00:05:50
Ken Freire
Oh, I'm sure. I mean, just adopting the twins by themselves could pose a challenge for anybody. Right. And then you have your other two kids and then you're growing a business and all the other stuff. Dude, this is why I wanted to have you on the conversation, because I think we all face that same thing where it's like there's constant challenges that are happening in the home front.
00:06:14
Ken Freire
for a lot of entrepreneurs, right? But all we talk about is business, right? It's like, here's the business stuff. We can't get enough leads. We can't get enough sales. We got operations. Our VAs aren't working well.
00:06:26
Ken Freire
And there's so much stuff there already that's complex. But then we talk about family home and then even personal life, like our personal issues that we're trying to go through. It's a lot.
00:06:37
Ken Freire
So I know you, Kevin, kind of went through this burnout phase, right, where you're just like, I can't keep doing it. So walk us through a little bit of just the pivot of like, what happened? And then how did you kind of start to create the contrarian way?
00:06:53
Kevin Weis
Well, that's an interesting story. Cause I don't, I didn't create it. I've had four, four different types of coaching businesses. So when I first, uh,
00:07:02
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:07:04
Kevin Weis
graduated from college. I have a degree in management, business management, and started financial coaching business right out of college. And it went well, like I won a whole bunch of awards and stuff. And there was just this part that fell off, like almost like I didn't fit with the community that I was in, like the other, you know, other people who did similar type of work.
00:07:28
Kevin Weis
And at the same time, If you know anything about the financial industry, there's a ton of regulation around what you could say and what you can't and how you do things, especially if you're affiliated with any type of company. And so it put this huge damper on my creativity.
00:07:42
Kevin Weis
And so I'm like, I can't do this anymore. So I sold that business and wife and I also had like a supplement network marketing type coaching business that we were in for a while.
00:07:53
Ken Freire
Nice.
00:07:54
Kevin Weis
And That company, we had really bought into their mission and values, and then they had a change in leadership, and it seemed like all of that was kind of thrown out the window. So we left.
00:08:06
Kevin Weis
And between kind of those two things happening, we started a brick and mortar fitness studio. That's my wife's expertise. She's all into kettlebells and is just like super strong. And so we decided to kind of like, you know, bring our strengths together. And she's got the fitness coaching side and I got kind of the business side.
00:08:25
Kevin Weis
And so we went in on that together and it sucked. Like first two years, we didn't bring a single penny out of the business for ourself.
00:08:31
Ken Freire
or
00:08:33
Kevin Weis
And it was hard. Like we made some, we had a mentor at the time who did not, he was not in the same business. He was like a real estate mogul kind of guy and was giving us business on how to, or giving us advice on how to run our fitness business.
00:08:48
Kevin Weis
And it was like, you got to grind, you got to, you know, just go, go, go in the first three years, you can't let the pedal up. And so, uh, we were, we were doing that and there was like no fruit, like the whole, the whole plan that we came in to start this business with none of it was working.
00:09:06
Kevin Weis
Like the people that we were trying to help the pricing that we were coming in with, it was just all it, nothing was working. And so, A few just like God ordained type of things happened.
00:09:18
Kevin Weis
I get a phone call one day from a salesperson and they were trying to sell us this really expensive package to help us bring people in. I'm like, we don't have that kind of money, but what do you use to do that? And he tells me exactly what they use.
00:09:31
Kevin Weis
And I'm the type of guy who like, if, if I want to learn something, I'm just going to dive into it and learn it.
00:09:36
Ken Freire
Yeah, you're DIY, DIYer.
00:09:36
Kevin Weis
I was,
00:09:37
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:09:37
Kevin Weis
Yeah, exactly. And so I learned all about, you know, copywriting and funnels and emails and all the sorts of stuff. we finally start to really get it to work with our fitness business.
00:09:56
Kevin Weis
Yeah. We tried to pivot it online, but there's something special about being in person.
00:10:00
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:10:00
Kevin Weis
You know, like if we were sitting in a room, it'd be even better than right now. And so had to close that business and moved into working more in marketing, right? Like helping other coaches. Cause we finally started to get some traction. And so I was helping another company that served coaches. And so was helping them with like their ads and their strategy and their offers and stuff like that.
00:10:23
Kevin Weis
And then I decided, you know what, this is easy. I'm just going to start my own agency. And so I did that, started my own I realized really quickly that one, I didn't like all the button pushing.
00:10:37
Kevin Weis
Like was just, you know, it's like, this isn't that high value. Like, yes, people are getting sales and stuff like that, but I don't need to be doing this. And I didn't want to build a big agency because I had seen kind of how all the dynamics change, you know, when you're, when you're trying to build a big team and have copywriters and designers and, you know, all this.
00:10:58
Kevin Weis
So I didn't want that, but noticed that the piece that I excelled in and that people had the most progress in was from like the strategy and the coaching and the mindset stuff that we did.
00:11:10
Kevin Weis
And so I made a complete pivot in my business to move strictly into coaching, coaching, mentoring, consulting, that kind of thing, depending on what people need you, you know, you switch the hat a little bit.
00:11:21
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:23
Kevin Weis
But during that time, before I made this pivot, something really interesting happened. So, you know, I was telling you about how both births were really hard.
00:11:35
Kevin Weis
Well, a couple weeks before we had our second born, we were in the middle of craziness in our life because we're getting ready to do this home birth. We had bought a house and we wanted to do the home birth in the basement, but it was unfinished. So we're like in the middle of this construction project with a timeline because a baby's going to be here pretty quick.
00:11:55
Kevin Weis
And about that time, my mom had a pretty significant health issue.
00:11:55
Ken Freire
Mm-hmm.
00:12:00
Kevin Weis
And then I had one on top of that. And it's just like, okay, this is not cool because we can't, you know, we can't control it. And then, I get on this call with this company that I'm helping and basically find out that a huge majority of my income is gone. Just poof.
00:12:19
Kevin Weis
Just like that. Two weeks before my baby's going to be born and I'm just furious. I can't control any of the stuff that's going on. The house stuff, I can't speed up the construction.
00:12:28
Kevin Weis
I can't get rid of my health stuff just like that or my mom's stuff and then this financial thing happens. And at that point I was just like, God help me. Cause have, I have no idea what to do.
00:12:39
Kevin Weis
Like I can't, especially on the financial piece, you know, as a, as a guy, you want to provide not, not that women don't want to provide for their families too, but just as a guy leading my family and wanting to work.
00:12:49
Ken Freire
We have that innate desire. Yeah.
00:12:51
Kevin Weis
Yes, exactly. And I couldn't do it. Like I, I did not know how to fix that problem. And so I just asked him and, I started reading the Gospels with a different perspective or lens than I had before. Usually, go to the Bible and you start reading it because you're wanting to apply it to your life and make your life better, basically.
00:13:14
Kevin Weis
And had decided, I'm just going to read through Gospels to see if I can... figure out like, how did Jesus do it?
00:13:25
Kevin Weis
Like, how did he transform aside from being God? Like, was there anything else that he did that helped people experience this big transformation? Right. Cause kind of what coaching is too, right? You're taking people from point A to point B and they're experiencing some change and walking in a new way of life.
00:13:43
Kevin Weis
And, what I noticed as I read through there, whether it was, you know, one-on-one interaction that he had with somebody or even in a small group or even like a huge sermon on the Mount type thing, he always seemed to have the same pattern with how he communicated or at least the same elements were there in each piece of it. for the longest time, it was like one of those things that you could see, but you can't really explain it. Like you can't, yeah.
00:14:11
Kevin Weis
Just the words aren't there. like, what is this? I know it's something, but I don't know what it is. And just after continuing to read and pray about and think about it, it seemed like this process made itself more clear. And that's what I now call the contrarian way.
00:14:30
Ken Freire
Got it. So and that's why you were like, hey, I didn't create it. You just saw the creator actually being able to implement it. And now you're like, I think I can utilize this.
00:14:38
Kevin Weis
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:40
Kevin Weis
Yep.
00:14:41
Ken Freire
So walk us through what was or what is the contrarian way?
00:14:45
Kevin Weis
Yeah, so it's basically the pattern of communication and transformation that I noticed Jesus use, right? The Bible doesn't explicitly say that. I'm not like a theologian or a pastor or anything like that. I always like to give that caveat because I'm just a normal guy. Like I read my Bible and I try and apply it to my life or my marriage or whatever. And so that's what I was doing here. And I just wanted to put words to it. And what the pattern seemed to be First, he would create belonging with people, right? Like he would make sure that they're seen, right? They're known or they're valued or they're loved before he goes into like correcting them or anything.
00:15:24
Kevin Weis
Like, hey, I see you. I know you. And that kind of let down people's guards, right? At least for some of them, the ones who didn't have the hardened hearts. And then it was like their ears were open.
00:15:32
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yep.
00:15:35
Kevin Weis
They were ready to listen to whatever he had to say next. And so that second piece was really around belief. He shifted their perspective. Like you think about the Sermon on the Mount.
00:15:44
Kevin Weis
He did this over and over and over. If you look at that, I'm trying to think. It's in Matthew 5 through 7. But he talks about, you have heard it said, dot, dot, dot, but I tell you, dot, dot, dot, dot. And so he's relating to these people saying like, I know what you've been taught, what you've experienced, what you've learned.
00:16:07
Kevin Weis
Like, I understand why you're living the way that you are, but I tell you the truth. And then he contrasts that. with something completely different. And so he's presenting people with this completely like black and white contrast picture between the way they're doing things now and the way that is right, right? Walking down this path versus this path. And so he's essentially trying to help people see the truth and not just shift from one false belief to another, but from a false belief to a true belief, And so that was really that second piece is creating belief.
00:16:46
Kevin Weis
And then the third thing, and you see this over and over and over, but especially in, in like, you can see it very clearly in some of the one-on-one interactions that he has, where he says, follow me, right?
00:17:02
Kevin Weis
Like he invites them to become someone new, right? To, to, to walk with him and to, follow him and to learn from him and to apply what he teaches. And so that's essentially the process of how you go from somebody who is not engaged or doesn't know you to having their lives be transformed is you create that belonging, you connect with them, open their ears to hear what else you have to say.
00:17:32
Kevin Weis
shift a belief from a false one to a true one, and then invite them to follow you and to walk in that way. And so belong, believe, become is what the contrarian way is.
00:17:45
Kevin Weis
And that just like, it blew my mind because it ties directly both to the experience that we have as a person, like as we grow in our faith journey, but it also applies to us as coaches and how we walk people through that transformation.
00:17:58
Ken Freire
Nicholas Matsakis, Yeah.
00:18:03
Kevin Weis
And so the way that I've started to look at it now is if you think of your business as three different pieces you've got marketing getting the message out there you've got sales right which is sharing with people and and inviting them and then the last piece is like your actual offer like what are what's that container that you're walking with people in they apply to each one of those. So like creating belonging is what you do in your marketing, especially if you're coach or a consultant or an expert, and you're trying to build a personal brand, like at the end of the day, you're going to be the one walking with these people and leading them.
00:18:44
Kevin Weis
That's what your marketing is creating belonging. and sharing right from a place of authenticity so people really connect with you and their ears are open to then hearing that next piece which the belief is about your sales that's your sales process like if know there's there's a lot of coaches who have their own unique way of doing things like they've got you know a process or a method that they use and that method can help people be able to experience whatever that transformation is. And so that's what belief is about, is about showing them here's the way that you're doing things right now and it hasn't been working for you, but here's a new way. Here's a better way and creating belief and how that works. And then the last piece become is really about your offer and showing them here's how we can walk this out together and
00:19:35
Kevin Weis
and help you to turn into, know, essentially a new person to have that transformation. So that's what the contrarian way is all about. And the reason I call it that is because it's so radically different.
00:19:46
Kevin Weis
Like if you think about Jesus himself, I consider him a contrarian because he was different from all the religious leaders in that day, right? They were like rules and regulations and oppressing people. And he was like freedom, right? Freedom in him. Like he's coming to fulfill the law. so just, you know, I really feel that strong sense that he's different from the world.
00:20:19
Kevin Weis
And that following him is the better way. Like it is the way he even says it. I am the way the truth in the life. So I just call it the contrarian way. And it's just modeling what he does.
00:20:50
Ken Freire
think you and I were even talking about like sales tactics, right? Like what people do and how they like hide their sales, like how much it costs people just straight up lying, you know, just to get them through the door.
00:21:00
Kevin Weis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:01
Ken Freire
But then afterwards, it's just total dismay. And it doesn't work. So you're just like, hey, let me be upfront with all these things. Let me share how there could be totally different way of doing one, marketing and sales. And two, just like bringing people in where you're not frustrated, you're not overwhelmed. And it's really easy.
00:21:21
Ken Freire
or simple, simple is probably the better way to say it's a simple methodology.
00:21:27
Ken Freire
You're really huge on having one message, one funnel. I'm assuming that funnel is the belong, belief, become, or is there more to it when you start thinking about having that one funnel?
00:21:40
Kevin Weis
So
00:21:42
Kevin Weis
yes, one funnel, like one core offer.
00:21:45
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:21:45
Kevin Weis
And one, essentially you think of a funnel as a path that people go down.
00:21:50
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:21:51
Kevin Weis
I've got one core path. If you think of it like a tree, you know, the tree's got the leaves at the top, right. And then branches. And then you got the trunk. There's like one trunk and then you got the roots. And that's where a lot of the growth happens is, you know, under, under, underground. And then the nutrients go up. That's kind of how I look at business. Like, Your content and the stuff that you put out there is your leaves, right? They're the attractive things that you can see from far away that draw people in.
00:22:16
Kevin Weis
And then your branches are like these little paths that lead people to like your one core invitation that you have. And yeah, well, yeah, it could be lead magnets.
00:22:25
Ken Freire
Here's a lead magnet. Yeah.
00:22:28
Kevin Weis
It could long form content. It could be low ticket products. Like it doesn't have to look the same for everybody because we're all made differently. We like doing different things. But then eventually they all lead to one core thing.
00:22:41
Kevin Weis
Like Jesus didn't say, am the ways, right? Like leads them to one core thing. And there are lots of coaches and business owners who create a whole bunch of different like core offers and try to be everything to everybody. And that just leads to, know, a really
00:23:00
Kevin Weis
chaotic message that you're putting out there. And so that, that funnel, if you want to call it that can look different for everybody, right? It could be like you, your main sales mechanism is through a video or through a sales page or through event that you do.
00:23:11
Ken Freire
Thank
00:23:19
Kevin Weis
Right. So yeah, essentially that's on the surface. That's what it looks like is kind like a tree.
00:23:26
Ken Freire
Yeah. Have you, you know, as you think about that analogy of a tree, which is fun because as soon as you started talking about it, I'm like, I get the imagery really fast. You know, have you found things that you're saying you would say, hey, this is the most helpful for coaches or expert led business owners, for example, like what would be the best leaves? would be the best branches? would be like?
00:23:46
Ken Freire
in principle, the best core offers so that they don't try to get distracted by every new shiny object, you know, where they're like, try a webinar, try a VSL, try a quiz, try this, try a course.
00:24:00
Ken Freire
There's like 1000 different ways to do it. Have you found anything that's super helpful for people like, hey, you're starting out, this is probably a good path?
00:24:09
Kevin Weis
That's a really good question. It varies by person depending on what skills they have, right? Like if you're good at writing, a sales page might be like your core thing.
00:24:19
Kevin Weis
If you're really good at speaking, maybe you do a video or an event. And so I've seen it work across a whole bunch of different styles or skill sets.
00:24:28
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:24:30
Kevin Weis
And so I wouldn't say that there's one particular one, but one thing that I have seen work really well is that you go from short form content, like posts or reels or stories to something that's more long form so that people can go deep with you, right? That the short form stuff is to help people feel known and valued and loved and create that belonging. And then the longer form stuff is to be able to shift those beliefs. And think one of the best ways that I personally like to look at is,
00:25:03
Kevin Weis
going from different modes of learning, right? Like if you go from written content, it's really easy to reread or to consume for a lot of people in a very short period of time. It's also easier to test things and it doesn't take as much production to do that too, right? To like shoot a video and do all the editing and stuff. And so that's great for short form. And then once you get to long form video stuff, like it could be a podcast like this or just YouTube videos. Or like personally like having like one core video.
00:25:36
Kevin Weis
If you think about went on this trip once. It was probably like almost two years ago now. No, it was almost one year ago. We went to the Black Hills and don't know if you've ever been out that way coming from Minnesota.
00:25:53
Kevin Weis
You go through.
00:25:53
Ken Freire
I know. Yeah.
00:25:54
Kevin Weis
Okay. So on your way out there, there's this place. I'm trying to think of the name. It's like super popular. And anyways, as you're driving there, you're like hundreds of miles away and you start seeing signs for this place.
00:26:11
Kevin Weis
And the closer you get, the more signs there are. And pretty much any direction that you come to this place from, there are signs. And so I just had this thought as we were on our way back, was that all thought or all roads lead to whatever this place is. I just wish I could remember the name of it. It's like a giant tourist attraction.
00:26:34
Kevin Weis
Anyways.
00:26:34
Ken Freire
You're like Yellowstone.
00:26:36
Kevin Weis
Now it's.
00:26:37
Ken Freire
But they all kind of do that though. Like a lot of those attractions have that like when you get closer, of a sudden there's more and more signs like don't miss it.
00:26:43
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:26:44
Ken Freire
It's right here.
00:26:45
Kevin Weis
Yeah. And when you read the Bible, the entire Bible, everything, every story in it points back to Jesus. It's like all roads lead to him. And so when you think about it from a business perspective, everything you do, every piece of content that you create, everything that you write, video that you shoot, whatever, it should all lead to one core place.
00:27:06
Kevin Weis
And so that's part of why the tree works, right? The idea of the tree, because you got the leaves and it all leads into that, you know, the core, middle of the tree.
00:27:17
Kevin Weis
So as for offers, you know, one of the, this might be my personal take on it, but again, I try and do my best to model Jesus as best as I can without like, you know, seeming to over-spiritualize everything.
00:27:32
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:27:32
Kevin Weis
But when I look at the way that people engaged with him there's like a lot of different levels of of proximity or access that people had to him right like some people were in the crowd and they were just walking by and they heard him preaching some people were listening to hear him teach and they raised their hand and they're like i believe that too like this actually makes a lot of sense but they didn't do anything then there's people who are like the followers like they would go from town to town to town to see him do miracles and learn from him more
00:28:04
Kevin Weis
And then there were the people who actually committed their lives to applying what he said and following him, his disciples. And then even within his disciples, he had Peter, James, and John.
00:28:17
Kevin Weis
They were like the inner circle, like the core three. And so when I look at those different groups of people and how they interacted and followed him, The two that were like, you could think of them as clients were the disciples and then the inner circle. And they just followed him and had different levels of interaction and depth of that relationship. And so from a coaching perspective, that's how I build all my coaching. Well, my only coaching offer is built that way. But that's also how I help other people build their offers is I call them an access offer. It's one core offer, but it has two levels to it.
00:28:53
Kevin Weis
You could choose what level of proximity you want to walk in. One that's either like a less access one-on-one support or it's a group model. And then the deeper level one is one-on-one work. And just seems to work really well for coaches because you can have the one-on-one work for people who want it usually, right? That there's a higher investment and you can't handle as much of that as a coach, be able to walk that closely with that many people. But then also having something that is either one-on-one with less access or a group model, you can help a lot more people.
00:29:31
Kevin Weis
with it. So it's, you know, it's, it's higher leverage and you can really serve a lot of people. So that's typically how I go about offer structure.
00:29:40
Ken Freire
Yeah. And I think that's huge because there's going to be people who listen to this and they've been trying to build their coaching business straight one on one. And I'm like, hey, that's great. But what ends up happening is you burn out after a while or you hit a cap, right, where it's like I can only have maybe 30 or 40 people week.
00:29:57
Ken Freire
And that's a lot. I mean, that's your grind hard.
00:29:59
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:30:00
Ken Freire
That's no admin. That's that's that's assuming you have all your your systems optimized with AI, right?
00:30:06
Kevin Weis
Right.
00:30:07
Ken Freire
But you've just switched from one job nine to five to another nine to five job. You don't, as a coach now, you don't have the flexibility or autonomy you may want to have. So that's why I love like the group coaching model, right?
00:30:16
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:30:19
Ken Freire
Where you're like, hey, we're going to have a group access here. That's the access part. And then one-on-one. I know I've done masterminds before. So like it's the smaller group, like the group of three, like Peter, James and John kind of deal.
00:30:32
Ken Freire
So that's other ways. But I love how you're just thinking about it. Like, here's your model. You got group coaching. You got one-on-one. The one-on-one has higher investment than the group coaching. And, you know, what's fascinating is we're talking about this.
00:30:47
Ken Freire
I could think of some people as thinking, right? hey, you're bringing a lot of Bible into this. You're just trying to use the Bible to sell things and almost kind of be a little bit like wealth and prosperity. And I'm just calling it out that like when we start to take biblical principles and apply them appropriately, right, things tend to flourish better, right? Just like if we follow the 10 commandments, right? It's like do not murder, do not steal, do not like do these things. If you just follow those, things tend to go better.
00:31:18
Kevin Weis
Right.
00:31:19
Ken Freire
we're not saying that like, hey, we're manipulating Jesus to create our core offers or anything like that. We're just trying to use these principles. That's my thought process. I don't know you'd want to add anything onto that.
00:31:30
Kevin Weis
Yeah, I think that's a really good point to bring up because especially, you know, is something you need to be sensitive with, especially if you're, you know, it says like test the spirits to know whether they are from God.
00:31:36
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:31:42
Kevin Weis
And I think of the verse that My wife and I, and probably every other Christian parent uses is the commandment, honor your father and mother that it may go well with you.
00:31:54
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:56
Kevin Weis
Well, if we're honoring our father by doing what he asks, it's more likely to go well for us. We know that it will in the end for sure. But I don't ever make guarantees with anything that I do on any of my products because I I don't have that much control. I don't have that much power to be able to say, you're going to make any money from doing this. I can tell you that when you follow his way, you will have more peace in how you do things because I've built my business. Well, the other four coaching businesses I've had, I built those the world's way. Like I know
00:32:32
Kevin Weis
all of the manipulation tactics and the urgency and scarcity and the persuasion and everything that, that you use. Cause that's how I used to build. That's how I helped.
00:32:47
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:32:54
Kevin Weis
I saw him online and I'm like, oh, he's getting great results for himself. He's getting it for other people. We need that kind of result for our business. So I'm going to hire him.
00:33:04
Kevin Weis
So we hire him. And in the very first month, we made all of our five-figure investment back and then some. And fired him.
00:33:16
Kevin Weis
And people ask me like, why? That doesn't make any sense. Like that's the dream outcome. And what realized is that I ignored some really big flags, red flags with that.
00:33:22
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:33:29
Kevin Weis
I... I didn't align with him as a person, like the actual, like, like his core values and who he was and how he did things. The person I didn't align with him.
00:33:40
Kevin Weis
I also didn't align with his process, like the actual things that he had us do and the scripts that he had us use and this and that they did not sit well with me or my wife. We just felt, you know, kind of slimy implementing them.
00:33:52
Kevin Weis
And so the process that he gave us did not work. It worked, but it didn't work for us and our values.
00:33:58
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:33:59
Kevin Weis
And then other part was the actual product that we bought. Like, I'm thinking I'm going to get to work with this guy. And what we found out afterwards is as soon as we signed the contract and paid the money, we got delegated to this other coach.
00:34:11
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:34:12
Ken Freire
His team.
00:34:13
Kevin Weis
We also didn't really align with him, but it was like the product that I was buying wasn't the right fit.
00:34:18
Kevin Weis
And what I realized is if you want hire better mentors to help you grow your business, those are the three alignments you have to have. You have to align with them as a person. You can sit across the table and have a non-business conversation with them.
00:34:31
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:34:32
Kevin Weis
And you need to align with their process and really like sit. It's almost like you could sit yourself in the car and be like, I could see myself driving this car. I could, you know, I could go down this road. It seems like it would fit me well. And then also from the product perspective, like the actual container, the logistics behind how you're going to work with this person has to be a fit. And if any one of those is not a fit, you can still get great results like we did. But you're either going to burn out, you're going to turn into someone that you don't want to be because you're going to just, you know, follow their way, which is not the way that we're called to follow. Or you're going to be forced to realign.
00:35:11
Kevin Weis
Right.
00:35:11
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:35:11
Kevin Weis
You're going have to. get realigned. And that's what, that's what I chose to do is to fire him and find somebody else. You know, we didn't leave it on bad terms or anything, but the other interesting piece that I found is, and this is like really been in the last probably six months is that those same three alignments, the person, the process and the product, you can use them to hire better mentors, better coaches, better consultants for yourself, but you can also use it to position yourself better because the person relates back to creating belonging and that's in your marketing.
00:35:44
Kevin Weis
The process relates to creating belief and that's in your sales process. And the product relates back to becoming, which is your offer. And once I realized that and just like connected all of those dots, like all this builds together perfectly, you end up realizing that Jesus's way is better.
00:36:06
Kevin Weis
Like I'm not just putting pretty wrapping paper on my business to try and, you know, sell to Christians or to appeal to that crowd. It is better. It doesn't mean that it's going to work the way that you want or at the pace that you want.
00:36:20
Kevin Weis
sometimes it will, but it'll give you a lot more peace and he'll look down on you and be like, you're trying to follow the ways that I told you. well done, good and faithful servant. Right. And whether or not you know, I become this seven or eight figure coach that people boast about online. I don't care because I already know that I am, I'm not using manipulation. I'm trying to do things the way that he's called me to do. And so I'm simply applying that to my own business and then sharing that. I mean, it's good news that you can share with other people. Like this is a better way to build your business. It really is.
00:36:57
Ken Freire
Yeah. You know, there's a guy that I was just talking to that I was really upfront with from the get go. Because I was just like, hey, FYI, before we even get started, just so you know, if you work with me, this is how much it costs to work with me.
00:37:13
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:37:13
Ken Freire
It kind of like stunned him a little bit. He's like, oh, okay. Because you get on a coaching call, no one's told you the price. And then you find out you got to go through the whole discovery call, find their pain, find their motivation, find their future self. And then you pitch and then you give them the offer and you tie down and you do all that stuff. I was just like, hey, this is what it would look like.
00:37:32
Ken Freire
But here's the deal. You don't have to work with me. What you can do is decide, hey, if you need another person to work with, I can tell you who to work with. I know who's legit, who's not legit.
00:37:45
Ken Freire
So that's my goal here. So whatever comes from this conversation, just know that. I'm not holding this tight that I'm trying to close a deal. And he was like, oh, okay, cool. All of a sudden, the barriers just went completely down.
00:37:57
Ken Freire
And we were actually able have a legit conversation. Right. And he was just like, man, thanks so much. I didn't even think about that. I was like, yeah, no problem, man. And I left. Like, I was just like, I'm here to completely serve you. And if the Lord wants us to work together, so be If not, man, no worries. Like there's other people. I'm not going stress over it.
00:38:15
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:38:17
Ken Freire
Kevin, for you, as you think about your process, I want to wrap up with what I typically call the fast five. This is a quick five questions that I don't want to ask you. But before we do that, there are some people who are listening to this and they are burdened, they're overwhelmed, they are misaligned, like you were just talking about. What would be a good next step for them to take to start getting realigned?
00:38:40
Kevin Weis
I think looking at those three scenarios, the person, the process, and the product, like in your own business, if you were to look at yourself like me as a person, am I putting my true self out there in my marketing? Or am I trying to like perform or look all polished and perfect for people? Because what I found to be true is that if you put that polished, perfect version of yourself out there and the only thing you ever talk about is business, guess who's going to be attracted to that?
00:39:13
Kevin Weis
People who want that. And all of a sudden, you start to be chained to doing those same exact things because now got continue to be perfect, continue to be polished, continue to perform for those people because that's what they demand and that's what they like.
00:39:22
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:39:27
Kevin Weis
But if you are yourself, if you're just sharing about who you are, the good stuff and bad stuff, that's what people relate to. And the people that connect with that, they're going to be people who are just like you, who you could sit across the table from and have a conversation that's not about business with.
00:39:44
Kevin Weis
So that would be like one area. The second area, the process part is like when you look at your business and you look at how you're doing everything, your marketing, your sales, like are there any parts to that that just feel off to you?
00:39:59
Kevin Weis
Like we talked about some of the other stuff like the countdown timers or like you're closing sales and cornering people in and trying to handle their objections and force them into a yes.
00:40:04
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:40:08
Kevin Weis
Like if you're doing that stuff, You know, we're not here to condemn you for it. We're just here to bring some attention to it be like, how does that feel when you do that? If it doesn't feel good, let's change it. There is a better way. There's a lot easier way. And it's not always the same for every person. Like you mentioned sales calls. I don't do sales calls. I sell a high ticket product, but I don't do it with sales calls.
00:40:30
Kevin Weis
And so there's, there's a different method to doing that for everybody. And then the third piece is actual product. And when you think about the clients that, that you're working with, are there aspects to it that you, that you hate?
00:40:44
Kevin Weis
Like, man, I always do voice messages and I hate doing voice messages, right? Like, just as an example, I love doing voice messages.
00:40:52
Kevin Weis
That's how we got connected kind of.
00:40:53
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:40:54
Ken Freire
We just started sending it back forth.
00:40:55
Kevin Weis
Yeah. But like, like the duration of it, like, do I like working with people for eight weeks or would I rather work with people for a little bit longer and could they get better results from it, right? Like the product that you build and how you're actually working with people, 100% up to you to decide.
00:41:12
Kevin Weis
And you just need to choose something that, and pricing too, kind of like you mentioned, that's a huge thing. Like there's, I mean, I'm not blaming anybody because I used to have some of the same,
00:41:20
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:41:24
Kevin Weis
I don't know, just like weird thoughts, mindset stuff around pricing. But I think about it pretty simple. Like it's gotta, it's gotta serve them, like be accessible to them and also enough that they commit to it. And it's also got to sustain you and your family, right? Like, How much money do you actually need? Not out and buy a Lambo, but like how much do you need to do the things you need to do and then set your price based on that? So if you look at those three things, how you're showing up as a person, the way you're doing things as in your process, and then what you're actually offering through your product, if there's anything that just feels weird, change it.
00:42:02
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:42:02
Kevin Weis
It's not, it's really not that hard. And then you can look for those same things when you're trying to find help in whatever area you need it.
00:42:09
Ken Freire
Exactly. And sometimes it's like you want to change it, but you don't feel like changing because you're like, oh, all the gurus or all the experts told me this is how it's got to be done. It's like, well, just do what's best for you. It might hurt at the beginning.
00:42:23
Ken Freire
But do it because you want to live in an authentic place of yourself.
00:42:24
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:42:29
Ken Freire
Now, Kevin, you had mentioned something.
00:42:29
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:42:30
Ken Freire
Now, I got to throw it out there because I know someone heard it and they're like, what's He doesn't do sales calls. What's your sales process to close? Is it like just the DMs just webinars?
00:42:41
Ken Freire
Like, how do you do it? How are you closing them?
00:42:42
Kevin Weis
Yeah. So it's interesting. I've got a lot of experience with sales calls and sales pages too.
00:42:50
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yep.
00:42:51
Kevin Weis
But personally, what I've found it takes a lot of work, especially I've worked with some eight-figure companies too, helping them with their marketing and sales. both of them had a sales process and like qualified leads, you know, a lead qualification process. And that can be really hard to figure out like, what questions do I ask to make sure this person's not like the right fit or not the right fit. And like, sometimes a person who answers this way could be a right fit and sometimes not, you know, it's just all these weird things.
00:43:24
Kevin Weis
What I found is that I don't like to do all that stuff. Because what that often leads to, not always, but what it often leads to and why think so many people use it is because of this idea of objection handling.
00:43:39
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:43:40
Kevin Weis
If we can get as much information about the person as we can, we can then use that information to manipulate them to actually buy. If we know how much money they make, we can talk to that a lot easier. If we know like how deep their dream is or passion to make this thing happen is, we can use that, right? it's not that there's not a good way to use some of those things, but more often than not, it's not used very well. And so personally for me, at least right now where I'm at in my business, I stay away from that.
00:44:14
Kevin Weis
And the way that I do that is strictly through my content. So my short form content is going to draw in the right people. Like I'm going to just say stuff and the right people are going to resonate with it because I'm being myself.
00:44:27
Kevin Weis
My long form content gives them a little bit deeper dive, you know, get to hear my voice, get to watch me on camera or something if they were just reading stuff with me. And then it all leads to this one video. And in that video, I'm like, hey, I'm Kevin.
00:44:42
Kevin Weis
Here's a little bit about my story. Here's the contrarian way, like a lot of the stuff that, you know, that I shared here. And that's it. If you resonate with me and you resonate with the contrarian way, just send me a message. So they'll send me a message.
00:44:59
Kevin Weis
I send them the doc. They look at it and it allows me to get rid of all that, all the, you know, qualification questions. Cause I know by that point, if somebody is aligned with me, they're going to make it to the video eventually.
00:45:14
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:45:15
Kevin Weis
If they're aligned with a video, they're going to message me. So I know two of those things are green light so far. If you're sending me a message, it's because you align with me and my process. And then when I send them the product, they can review it within the context of their lives. I don't know everything about you. I'm not going to know whether or not this is a perfect fit. Who's a better person to discern that than you?
00:45:36
Kevin Weis
So just going to give you the information and I'm to like, hey, I'll be over here if you have any questions about it. Or if you want to sign up, if it's a good fit, great. And if it's not, I'd love to know why.
00:45:48
Kevin Weis
Just, you know, not to be like, turn it on you and try save a sale. But literally, is there something I didn't explain clear enough for the next person?
00:45:56
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:45:56
Kevin Weis
And that's how I do it.
00:46:00
Ken Freire
And that could be so simple for some people. And so like, oh, you don't have to do hardcore sales tactics. It can really be that simple.
00:46:08
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:46:10
Ken Freire
And sure, this is really important for me to say. Sure, you might not have the same high close rate as other people doing the strong high pressure sales.
00:46:20
Kevin Weis
Right.
00:46:21
Ken Freire
But here's what I have found. And Kevin, I know if you've found this, that like you might not have a high close rate, but then your retention rate is a whole lot higher.
00:46:31
Ken Freire
Because how many of those people who buy initially have like the seven day or 30 day money back guarantee? And then they're like, actually, want to get out of this thing. And now you have a clawback. So you're like, now you need customer service and people to work on that end just to deal with that. And what I have found too is that sometimes customer service is not trained on trying to handle it and trying to win the sale back.
00:46:52
Ken Freire
And I'm like, you know, you could have just avoided all of that if you just were straight up and just, here's, like you said, here's the information. I'm not going emotionally pressure you. You decide on your terms.
00:47:05
Ken Freire
And when you've decided, like, I know I'm kind of more of a cautious person, but when I commit to something, I'm like 110 miles an hour. I'm like, let's go. Right.
00:47:14
Ken Freire
That's what you want from people is you want them completely committed on their terms. Their spouse is committed on their terms. You don't have to, feel like it's on someone else's. I think that's why it's funny now that I think about it.
00:47:14
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:47:26
Ken Freire
Remember when we were on this call right before this call, I was telling you something that I was frustrated about.
00:47:31
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:47:32
Ken Freire
It's exactly that reason. I'm like, oh, I'm trying, you're trying to sell this on your terms, not my terms.
00:47:38
Kevin Weis
Right.
00:47:38
Ken Freire
I'm out.
00:47:39
Kevin Weis
Yeah, exactly.
00:47:40
Ken Freire
Right. It just dawned on me as we were having the comment. I'm like, oh, that's why I'm frustrated by that whole situation.
00:47:45
Kevin Weis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:46
Ken Freire
So, Kevin, thank you for the coaching lesson. appreciate it. Hey, man, as we wrap up here, I'm asking the same fast five questions to everyone, primarily because I'm trying to build a trend report.
00:47:58
Ken Freire
Like, hey, in 2026, what's working? What's not working? What are people doing? So quick 30 seconds answers. I'm not going comment on it. I just want to see what you're doing. So question number one is, what's something in your business you're experimenting with right now?
00:48:14
Kevin Weis
One client that I worked with a while ago, they weren't actually a client, but I served them in a really high capacity. I helped them create a challenge as their one core sales mechanism, and they did over a million in a month.
00:48:23
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:48:28
Kevin Weis
And so I decided, what the heck? I'm pretty good at this. Let me do an event. So I'm going to do an event in a few weeks.
00:48:32
Ken Freire
Yeah. I love it. Yeah. When you tell me that, I'm like, all right, I'm excited for you. And yeah. Okay. Question number two, which part of your business feels the most influx these days? Or you're like, really need to work on this area.
00:48:46
Kevin Weis
Probably my marketing on the front end, because I really want to connect with the person who's ready and draw in the right person.
00:48:53
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:48:56
Kevin Weis
And my messaging is really strong, but there are just some minor things to it that I'm like, feel like there's more that needs to be aligned there.
00:49:05
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:49:06
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:49:07
Ken Freire
Cool. Question number three, what's a goal you're building toward this year that you're really excited about?
00:49:13
Kevin Weis
Interesting question. I'm not setting any goals this year.
00:49:17
Ken Freire
Ooh, the contrarian.
00:49:18
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:49:19
Kevin Weis
yes. Yeah. Uh, I have set a lot of goals in the past one thing I realized, and if you do a self check, you probably realize there's also a lot of goals that maybe turned out completely different than you thought they would. going back to how we started this conversation kind of around family, I've realized that, uh, there's this verse, I can't remember it off the top of my head, but it goes like, man, we'll, we'll,
00:49:42
Kevin Weis
will like plan his life, but the Lord will direct his steps or something similar.
00:49:46
Ken Freire
Yeah, 16.
00:49:47
Kevin Weis
Yes. so I realized like, why should I do any of my side of things? I'll just listen to him and follow him wherever he leads. And I'm not going to set these expectations for myself that I really don't have that much control over. So if I'm ever going to set a goal, it's going to be an action-based goal. Like I'm going to do this. It's not going to be an outcome-based goal.
00:50:10
Kevin Weis
because I don't have that much control over it. So this year I just decided I'm just going to let him lead. I'm not going to set any goals for anything. I'm just going to see what happens.
00:50:17
Ken Freire
Sweet. All right. Question number four, where do you see the industry shifting and how are you preparing for it?
00:50:26
Kevin Weis
I see it shifting a lot more to, what's the word I'm looking for?
00:50:33
Kevin Weis
individualized work, like getting even deeper into the relationship in person type stuff, whether it's like one on one virtually or like actually physically in person.
00:50:45
Kevin Weis
And I think a lot of that has to do with AI.
00:50:48
Ken Freire
yeah okay and then last question is uh what type of legacy do you want to leave to your family
00:50:54
Kevin Weis
I don't. I was asked this question on another podcast, and I'm sticking with my answer. It hasn't changed at all. I don't really care about my legacy whole lot.
00:51:06
Kevin Weis
Usually couple generations go by and you're forgotten about. It's just the truth. And would rather people know him than people remember me.
00:51:17
Kevin Weis
And so I'm not really concerned about that. The best way that they could know him is for me to try and raise my kids up in the way that they should go. And so I don't know if you'd consider that a legacy, but if I can instill a strong faith in them, a faith that's their own, that's the best thing that I can do. And it's really the only thing that matters.
00:51:39
Ken Freire
Yeah. Kevin, thank you so much for answering those questions. And I appreciate you being on the podcast, man. It's been a blessing. It's been a blessing to get to know you, man. And we have very similar paths and similar philosophy to stuff. So I'm sure we'll keep chatting and commiserating about the woes and blessings of having five kids.
00:51:58
Kevin Weis
Yeah.
00:51:59
Ken Freire
Kevin, what's the best way for people to reach you if they're like, man, this guy resonates. It's exactly the type of stuff I'm looking for. And they want to work with you.
00:52:07
Kevin Weis
Just find me on Facebook. That's it.
00:52:09
Ken Freire
right. Kevin Wise, and that's W-E-I-S for your last name.
00:52:13
Kevin Weis
You got it.
00:52:14
Ken Freire
I'll make sure to put that in the show notes. Kevin, thanks so much for being on the podcast again.
00:52:18
Kevin Weis
Thanks, Ken. Appreciate you.