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Big topics: the state of our culture in America, for us guys- how to ‘fix’ our marriage, what’s going on with families, what does a ‘local’ church look like, what is a ½ Christian, a refreshing view of going through serious sickness, and the answer to ‘how hard is it to get right with God’
26 Plays6 months ago
Peter Hubbard has been serving as the Teaching Pastor at North Hills Church since 1992. He is married to Karen, and they have four adult children, two daughters-in-law, and 3 grands! He has two Master’s Degrees and has earned a Doctor of Ministry degree in Pastoral Counseling from Westminster Theological Seminary.
God’s purpose and grace continue to energize Peter to preach through the Scriptures, listening carefully to what God says and how his Spirit applies his Word to the hidden, hurting places in our hearts. He loves to see the transforming power of the gospel shine into the darkest, most difficult struggles.
For fun Peter might read, write, play games, take long walks with Karen, and endure persecution for cheering for the Patriots.
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Transcript
Introduction and Invitation
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to Russell Jones Speaks, where we explore big issues that matter to parents, grandparents, and kids. We tackle intergenerational issues. Everything that affects parents, grands, and children is on the table. That includes health and fitness, relationships, attitude, family unity, vision, adversity, God, and anything else that might arise. The goal is for you to take away something that you can use in your life immediately.
00:00:58
Speaker
I really want to help improve the lives of families, especially those with 10 to 13 year old middle schoolers. Let's talk. Go to RussellJonesSpeaks.com to get an amazing gift and then jump on a call with me. Hey everybody.
Meet Peter Hubbard
00:01:13
Speaker
Peter Hubbard has been serving as a teaching pastor at North Hills Church since 1992. He's married to Karen and they have four adult children, two daughters-in-law and three grands. He has two master's degrees and has earned a Doctor of Ministry degree in Pastoral Counseling from Westminster Theological Seminary.
00:01:32
Speaker
God's purpose and grace continue to energize Peter to preach through the Scriptures, listening carefully to what God says and how His Spirit applies His Word to the hidden, hurting places in our hearts. He loves to see the transforming power of the gospel shine into the darkest, most difficult struggles.
00:01:51
Speaker
For fun, Peter might read, write, play games, take long walks with Karen, and endure persecution for cheering for the Patriots. Totally understandable. ah Welcome, Pastor. How are you today? Great. Good to be with you, Russell.
00:02:09
Speaker
So ah yeah, I'm just excited about this. I just wanted to give everybody a heads up that we're coming up on four years of living in Traveler's Rest, South Carolina. Before that, it was 67 years in New Jersey. And ah coming to the Bible Belt,
00:02:33
Speaker
not knowing anyone within probably 200 miles of this area. um Peter was like the second person that I met. When we were leaving, ah when the the people that lived here were leaving,
00:02:50
Speaker
They mentioned a few of the neighbors and they said, oh, there's a pastor out back. That was their words. And so I said, well, it's the Bible Belt. I'm sure we're going to be meeting a lot of pastors and we're going to be going to a lot of churches, finding trying to find a home.
00:03:07
Speaker
and so Eventually I went over and I met Peter and we spoke for at least a half an hour. ah Peter told me about all the awesome churches in this area, I mean, in detail. And ah I was saying, that's great. um I was encouraged. I was, you know, great meeting my neighbor and everything. And I ah came back and my wife said to me, she said, well, where's the pastor? Where's his church? i said Gee, I don't know. He never mentioned it. so So she said, well, that's kind of suspicious. I said, well, I don't know. Maybe he sized me up and figured he doesn't need any more people at his church. I don't know. But anyway, with the ah New Jersey, yeah ah I don't know, distrust of just about everything, we yeah we figured we'd stalk this neighbor of ours. And we went to his church. and
00:04:05
Speaker
Uh, we haven't been anywhere else since, uh, Peter's an awesome, awesome teacher of the word and awesome neighbor too. But, um, anyway, I'm just, I'm just really happy that, uh, that we're getting together today and, uh, the takeaway should be great. So, uh, all right, so Peter, okay, we, we got the Patriots thing out of the way. Uh, give us your story.
Peter's Spiritual Journey
00:04:26
Speaker
Um, I know, uh, growing up in, uh, up in Massachusetts and not a religious family though, right?
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah, my parents were moral good people. We periodically went to church at a congregational church that really didn't believe the Bible was true. We didn't believe Jesus rose from the dead or any of the other miracles. um My life at the time was ice hockey ah played all the time.
00:05:03
Speaker
And at one of my games, my mother was in the stands just chatting with a lady next to her about a horse ranch in Canada where they trained hockey players, professional hockey players in the summer, worked there and they also had horses. So she decided I needed to go.
00:05:26
Speaker
But I was excited about it, but had no idea that this was a Christian horse ranch and that they had chapel. And when I found out about that, I was not happy. But halfway through the week, heard the gospel, really for the first time, that Jesus died for me. He defeated sin at death, rose from the grave, and the Lord changed my life.
00:05:54
Speaker
And shortly after that, my sister came to Christ. A couple of years later, my mother, then my father, then tons of brothers and sisters. So we are just stunned at the miracle of God's grace. So did it make you a better hockey player?
00:06:16
Speaker
No. Ended my professional career, which was non-existent. I am not built as a hockey player, but I loved to play. I played for a few more years and then decided to become a running back in the NFL. No. So that's what happens to the Patriots. That's it.
00:06:41
Speaker
so um okay so That changes your life. So it changes, just sounds, ah I mean, changed family life. um So where were you in school at the time when that happened? What grade? I was going to a school, just a big public school in my town, Maskanom at regional high school and middle school and high school. And I did not, at first, I didn't know anyone else who was a Christian,
00:07:15
Speaker
But each summer I would go back to the ranch, learn more, grow, come back, terrorize my community by sharing the gospel with everyone I knew, and slowly got to know believers. Eventually the latter part of high school went to a boarding Christian school in New Hampshire.
00:07:39
Speaker
And that's really where I got grounded, got called into the ministry, which is ah another story. And my life totally, totally changed.
00:07:55
Speaker
So, okay. So yeah. So give us that, like that call, you know, uh, obviously you were, you know, fired up about sharing the gospel and, uh,
00:08:07
Speaker
How did that look when when you finally got that sense that, okay, I'm not gonna have, you know, maybe a career that I thought of before. I'm not gonna, you know, ah proceed. ah The normal channels, I'm going to flow in the spirit. It was...
00:08:29
Speaker
It was so unlike me because growing up I was hyperactive. They they field tested Ritalin on me before it was a thing. I was diagnosed ADD and i I was just so non-academic, not sit still, not focused.
00:08:50
Speaker
And so when the Lord gave me a love for his word in high school, which is insane, I would wake up early, read the Bible every morning, got commentary, started to devour, what does this mean? And began sharing it with classmates and eventually had opportunities to to teach the little that I knew, which is scary.
00:09:17
Speaker
But it was during that time where the spirit just impressed me. I want you to do this the rest of your life. My family, especially my grandfather thought I was insane. Like you're wasting your parents' investment in you to become a minister because all he knew were like liberal ministers who drank all week and delivered a homily at on Sunday. and I said, this is very different from that. And so it was it was really those high school years, latter part of the high school years had opportunities to go on mission trips and God just gave me a ah hunger for his word and to share it with anybody I could share it with. And that's never changed in 40, 50 years. Interesting. so
00:10:15
Speaker
All right, so you're up in New England and you got to travel a bit with missions and things like that. But now, how do you end up ah down here in South Carolina?
Church Planting in South Carolina
00:10:28
Speaker
That's a big it's a big leap, right? From Massachusetts to South Carolina. Big leap. Yeah, my wife and I met here and then I was a youth pastor in Chicago for a number of years. And then,
00:10:43
Speaker
It was during those years that our marriage fell apart. We were still married, but I just was a doofus and was kind of addicted to ministry, gone all the time. She began to experience panic attacks and depression. We had our first child that helped propel that. And it was during that time that God really showed me, you can't go out and minister to everyone else and neglect the person that you're in covenant with.
00:11:20
Speaker
And he began to humble me and show me what love looks like, not just out there, but in here and to the ones closest to me. And God really began to heal.
00:11:36
Speaker
our marriage heal Karen through this incredibly horrible experience of she was in panic attacks for several years, like not just episodic, but ongoing. And it was during that time I wanted to get more schooling and I thought if I just go somewhere where we don't know anyone,
00:12:01
Speaker
She's going to be dying. So felt led to come back here, do more schooling, would drive every week up to Charlotte. And God began to heal our marriage. And it was during that time I was running a painting business.
00:12:19
Speaker
that a group of families that were gathering that would become North Hills Church 34 years ago. And that's how the church was planted and we began pastoring there. So it was a real time of transformation for our marriage and launching into this, what has become a lifelong ministry.
00:12:48
Speaker
So wait, I missed a jump there. You met Karen up in and Massachusetts, or you met her down here? No, down here in school. And then... but I was saying, like, how did you end up going to school in ah in South Carolina? Oh, I had a coach, a soccer coach.
00:13:06
Speaker
who went to school down here and said, if you're gonna train for the ministry, go there. And so I came down here and that's where I met Karen, did a bachelor's and master's here, and then was a youth pastor up in Chicago, and then came back go to get, because her family was here. We knew some people who had gone through similar things that she went through. And so we felt like we could get help.
00:13:33
Speaker
yeah Awesome, okay, so so it it just started with a few families, North Hills Church. You weren't given a ah a huge building with stained glass windows and you weren't just given the the job, right? Oh yeah, no, there was no package. No, we, yeah, we we were, they were, the the original families met in a home for a few months praying about, is God in this?
00:14:05
Speaker
And then they rented a foot doctor's upstairs. The foot doctor's office was downstairs. The doctor had this upstairs space that used to be a church. And so we rented that. And that's when I started speaking just to fill in. And then God just knit our hearts together.
00:14:26
Speaker
and made it clear we need to formally form as a church. We had not done that. And then we need to get biblical leaders. And we were off and running. So i was I was working full time and going to school and pastoring at first. And that that was a little insane. It sounds like it. But I was young and foolish.
00:14:56
Speaker
and had more energy. But you have a lot of energy still. but so alright So let's take this to ah contemporary culture.
Cultural and Religious Trends
00:15:09
Speaker
What's going on in America today? um I'm looking you know at the news and listening and the election and all that's that's going on. I'm listening to the quote unquote influencers in our culture, the Jordan Peterson's, Tucker Carlson's, Elon Musk's, Russell Brand, Kennedy Jr., Tulsi Gabbard, Joe Rogan and his UFOs, all these different ah people are talking. But there's a thread going through it right now that I
00:15:47
Speaker
I don't know, I'm startled by, not in a bad way, but just start like all of a sudden, it seems like within less like nine months or so, everybody's like expressing their Christianity, their belief in God. And um and it it just seems like the culture has gone one way, is it is it even going to be able to go back the other way? but So I guess the big question is, are Americans on the road back to common sense, traditional values, and faith? Great question. I would say yes and no. Yes and no. Yes, like you see this, for example, a surge in Bible sales last year this year, 22% increase. and and And many other indications
00:16:40
Speaker
There's a hunger for with people for something they can trust. Everything seems to be moving. ah ah Everything, loss of trust in many institutions, that's obvious. But but people wanna hold on to something. And so I think there is a desire.
00:17:07
Speaker
for what is ultimate. And religion, a good definition of religion is it's what's beneath everything else. Like it's the what's what's holding up everything else. And and people wanna get to that. But I say yes and no because on the other side, there is this surge in skepticism And like our schools are still pumping out a level of cynicism that is unprecedented. so So depending on what world you're in, it's just a widening. And when you have online optimization where you can you can enter into a black hole of one or the other,
00:18:02
Speaker
ah That's where I think it's it's almost impossible to say universally yes or universally no. It's yes and no. But on a practical level, I keep meeting more and more people, young people who just show up at church and want to know, what is this all about? So I do think it's a great ah it's a great time to be a follower of Jesus. Yeah.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I just, you know, I think sometimes the hope is, is, uh, so that we can have something really to pass on something of value to pass on to our children and our grandchildren. And, um, but sometimes we, we, we get a little carried away with like, oh, everything's going to be fixed. You know, everything's going to be really good. Everything now.
00:19:01
Speaker
Now we're really going to, you know, the world is really going to see what Christianity is all about. But, you know, this is, it's still Earth, it's still humans living, living, right? It's not, it's it's a sinful fallen world, no matter how, you know, no matter how good it seems like it's going to get.
00:19:22
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And you saw some of the same thing happen, like 9-11, the surge of religious openness, and then within a few years, you see it fading. And so, as a as a follower of Jesus and as a pastor, you know our desire is to help people pursue Christ, to experience deep-rooted happiness, not just ah transient, yeah, the economy's better, you know, our guy wins, we got some good election results, whatever it is, but a deep rooted happiness that sets us up for long term flourishing, eternal flourish. Yeah. Yeah, the interesting thing too is that it sounded like it listening to the reports of these theses last so many months that that young men,
00:20:22
Speaker
seem to be more hungry for the the traditional uh shift back uh to you know hungry for you know seeking seeking something you know greater than themselves um but it seems like there's a a battle but that there's young men and young women it's not like an evil it it's not evenly matched it's almost uh And you know I don't want to make it a sexist discussion, but it's kind of like, like what's going on with the young women today? And ah so anyway, I don't know if you if you're if you've experienced that. Are the new people coming in? I see new people coming in, and I i can't tell if there's more guys coming than girls coming, women coming. um Are you seeing a difference in that, or is this just something that the media is pumping up?
00:21:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's hard to say because i I see a hunger among both, but I would say more than ever that I can remember like young males tend to be more conservative than young females, which is unusual. and Part of that are the influencers you've described, and part of that is you know being male has you know, come under hard times for a number of years where men have kind of lost their way and the culture has at times assumed if you're male, you're toxic. And so it's it's given, I think young men a desire to know what does it really mean to be a man, not not a predator, not a victim, but a real,
00:22:13
Speaker
man made in the image of God. like And what does that mean for the way I live? So I do think that that is a fascinating trend, the conservative ti movement of young men and the opposite of young females. But I do think some of that is regional.
00:22:41
Speaker
and and not necessarily national, but I could be wrong there. the um Yeah, and I think, too, that the just that social media, but and I guess you don't see it face to face, but one of the downsides of this whole
00:23:10
Speaker
conversations that go on. They're not conversations anymore. it's I call it like the scream culture. like people just I don't know where civility went.
00:23:22
Speaker
um in it i get I don't know if it started in my generation. I don't know, the baby boomers. Did we we you know just get so disrespectful to maybe what went before us. We wanted to change everything. We wanted to do the you know the Woodstock thing. and Uh, but the scream culture just has me, it just, uh, like, how can we talk? But I don't know that it that's really, it's really liked that though, when you actually sit down with people face to face. but What's your experience with that? Yeah, I would say online is a different culture than face to face because
00:24:03
Speaker
Having a real debate online so often degenerates, not always, but often. But I find when when you sit face-to-face with people who differ and you and you really want to listen to one another, it's still possible.
00:24:25
Speaker
but but I do think you're right. there is ah There's a strong cancel culture on the far right and the far left that really doesn't want to listen to either. and I think as Christians, we got to push against that because quick we can't dehumanize. That doesn't mean we compromise. It doesn't mean we just go along with anything. But it does mean like Paul wrote in Titus, you know showing perfect courtesy toward all people is huge. Even while we stand for truth, even while we have vigorous debates. My middle son was a political science major at and the university where he went, and this is shocking because it's very it's very progressive.
00:25:19
Speaker
but he had a political science teacher who they would debate issues and he required them to use Mr. and Miss when referring to someone and their last name and had to speak respectfully. And it was like another world. you know My son loved it because they could have these rigorous debates in class, but they had to show respect They had to speak respectfully to one another. They couldn't dehumanize each other. They couldn't just add homonym. They had to debate the issues. that That's rare. Yeah. That is rare. But it's awesome when it comes about. Yeah. That's very cool. So um but so the state of the family,
00:26:10
Speaker
ah
00:26:14
Speaker
and and you know there's
Supporting Modern Families
00:26:16
Speaker
no judgment here. i mean there's blended families, mixed families, broken families, single parent families. There's all these derivations which seem to be more prevalent in these times than ever before.
00:26:36
Speaker
to Does the church, like how's the church dealing with the challenges that folks like that have and kids like that have? I mean, is, or is it just like, hey, We all have stuff and you know we got we all gotta work through our stuff. Yeah, great question. um As our culture has moved more and more away from Christian assumptions, let's say, it it has had devastating impact on marriage and family. And the kids are the ones who pay the biggest price.
00:27:16
Speaker
As believers, I think of it kind of like the first time I was speaking in Africa 30 years ago. um I opened it up for questions. And the first question I got from one of the pastors was, what do you do when a man gets saved and has several wives?
00:27:45
Speaker
And if he divorces any of these wives, they're just going to die because no one's goingnna they're not going to have anyone to take care of them. But if he keeps multiple wives, then he can't serve in leadership. What do you do? And I'm thinking, I haven't got that question yet. But it illustrates what has been normal throughout church history.
00:28:15
Speaker
And that is when the gospel penetrates a culture that is not predominantly shaped by Christian values. We're going to encounter a lot of challenges, like people are gonna come into the a relationship with Jesus with a lot of baggage, a lot of messiness, like you know like um a man who gets saved.
00:28:41
Speaker
and is married to another man or and and perhaps has adopted children. Like what does that mean? How does the gospel shape the way he thinks about marriage and family when his own experience has been the opposite? And for us for many of us today, especially many in the so-called Bible Belt, that that is a bit shocking.
00:29:09
Speaker
But for Christians throughout church history, that's not unusual at all. Like the Christians in Rome encountered all these variations, sexual variations, and moral, marital, family.
00:29:26
Speaker
And then just you see through the the the scriptures, the gospel shaping and reshaping the way they think about marriage and work and kids. And and so i I think we have to patiently respond full of grace and full of truth, meaning we're not gonna compromise, but we're going to meet people where they are and patiently loving them, whether they've been through a shattered marriage or, you know, like one one lady who but was saved out of lesbianism and she walked into our church and she said, I i didn't understand a thing that was happening. And so one of the ladies in our church said, hey, let's get lunch after every service and we'll talk through what happened and what it means and what we learned. and
00:30:24
Speaker
And this lady grew spiritually because she had someone full of grace, full of truth, walking through, what does this mean for your life? How do we live this out? Patiently, struggling, failing, learning, growing, changing. I think that's the model we're called to. Yeah, good model.
00:30:52
Speaker
All right. So, okay. So the local church, you mentioned the word before you talked about trust. And, uh, you know, I, I have experience, uh, from my younger days when, uh, I trust was, was broken. I felt again, it could have been just me, but maybe because there was no ongoing conversations with somebody taking me to lunch, a lot of distrust of the church occurred. And I think then, you know, later on in life, ah becoming a Christian for me, um that kind of crops up, has cropped up and, you know, periodically, ah like what's going on that, you know, you can, I mean, you can be skeptical about anything in life, but sometimes you just go off the deep end with it.
00:31:48
Speaker
But like, what's like the state of it of the church in America right now?
State of the Church in America
00:31:54
Speaker
ah Is the perception, you know, it's just a place we run to when there's a national tragedy or is it, is it, ah is the church growing? Is it, or are people just moving around?
00:32:11
Speaker
Whew, another great question. ah Yes and no, because sorry the non-denominational churches that are healthy and teaching God's word are growing. Some of the mainline denominations are shrinking significantly.
00:32:33
Speaker
Many of the older denominations are shrinking. So it's it's there's kind of an institutional rejection, but at the same time, there is this craving for community and truth. And so that's where you see this yes and no thing going on because like one of the things COVID did is whatever something was, it is more of that now. Like it killed some churches that were really struggling
00:33:11
Speaker
you know, going into it. And other churches that were healthy going into COVID are way more healthy and stronger. So it it had this weeding out effect, and and there are a lot of reasons for that. But I think i think that illustrates the condition of churches, because I...
00:33:37
Speaker
Like I keep hearing churches and I know of churches that are struggling and barely surviving, but then I could name a ton of churches that are exploding and in a good way, like growing and not just numerically, but in health and and spiritually. And so I do think overall there is a weeding out of nominal Christianity, because in many parts of the country, you've got you either believe or not, and there's a price to pay. And I i don't know that that's a bad thing. it It's a good thing. like Christ called us, take up our cross, and follow. Yeah. All right, so okay so now we come to North Hills Church.
00:34:36
Speaker
in Terrellers, South Carolina. Now, I consider it, after all the churches we've attended over the years and served in and everything else, I consider it the perfect church. However, I do realize that once I got there, it wasn't perfect anymore. But- I didn't want to say that. But I knew you were thinking it. Yes. It was absolutely perfect. We worked so hard to get it perfect. And you came from New Jersey. Can you believe it? They sent me directly here. um But I think um ah just looking at at our church and all the different things that we're into, from the missions to the Miracle Hill ladies to ah all the the counseling and the youth and the children and
00:35:33
Speaker
the adult class, ah the guest speakers, the the the men's group, the women's group, the seniors group, all the things that we're we're we're involved in and doing. what ah Even our healthy, ah Kirsten running a healthy kitchen in our church. I mean, a healthy kitchen is a oxymoron when it comes to big established things. But this it's awesome. So here we are, but like do we have any gaps that you that you're aware of? Like that you're saying, gee, I wish we could be jump further into another area that we're not into yet, or is it just like a continual like moving forward in all the areas that that we're in?
00:36:22
Speaker
oh having Having been here since the beginning, you I feel like maybe too much. I see i see the areas along for us to grow in and to become better at. And so I i think I genuinely am filled with gratitude for all the Lord has done and is allowing us to do.
00:36:54
Speaker
but but I feel like we've just scratched the surface. Like there is, one ah one example, um we're working on a more intentional discipleship model to help especially new believers and newcomers, you know, really get grounded, rooted and grounded in what does it mean to believe God's word, connect with his family and share his story.
00:37:23
Speaker
And so that, that's one example. There are, like we want to help our
Community Engagement and Challenges
00:37:31
Speaker
business men and women and people in the medical world or wherever, like reach out to their coworkers,
00:37:40
Speaker
um people like minister in whatever avenue or area of vocation God has put us in. So I feel like those are just a couple of many areas where we're also praying about what does that look like in like counseling kind of ministries to the community. Can we provide more ah like marriage counseling for the community at large? We have that a lot for our people.
00:38:15
Speaker
But as you said, marriages and families are taking a big hit. So cant can we do more there? We're praying about that. And a lot of ministries, you mentioned Miracle Hill, some of your people may not know what that is, but like we we have partnerships with ministries like Miracle Hill who have in a residential drug and alcohol programs, biblically based, and we get to partner with them. So we're saying rather than start some of those things, let's help reinforce, strengthen, partner, support what's happening in our community. So we'll continue to do more and more of that. Connect, yeah. Okay. All right.
00:39:11
Speaker
ah scenario for you. ah but and this It came about because I'm ah um going back, you know, social media again, I'm Facebook friends with people from literally 60 years ago, 50 years ago, that I haven't seen since, but we're quote unquote friends. And ah I don't even know how we were like,
00:39:41
Speaker
the image of what I was like, I saw them the last time, was in seventh grade. um Oh yeah, I know Russell. But ah but ah I notice that in listening to people push, come to shove, they'll say that they're a Christian, or they they'll name a denomination of Christianity, or they'll belong to some religion. But In my mind, it's and listening to them or seeing how the things that they put up there, it's almost like they're like half-believers. you know um like How do you talk to a half-believer that had some education, maybe some you know traditional education and Christianity, and when you know their parents dragged them to church, they went to Sunday school,
00:40:36
Speaker
and But at some point, you know, they rebelled against that. They walked away from that. And but so they feel that they know all about it. You know, I've been there. I yeah i did that that. It doesn't really work. It sounds good, but it doesn't really work. Or they're maybe they're even atheist at this point. um I know ah what what gets me is ah Like, how do you how do you witness to somebody like that? Like, you know, C.S. Lewis, and obviously a huge C.S. Lewis fan, Christianity is false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is model moderately important. And Tozer said, you know, Christianity has been watered down until the solution is so weak that if it were poisoned, it would not hurt anyone. And if it were medicine, it would not cure anyone.
00:41:33
Speaker
So speak to that. If if there's any, um ah how how would you address some, but how would you raise the urgency bar for them to make a decision one way or the other instead of being somewhere in the middle? A lot of it depends on the nature of our relationship. So if it's online and I only, you know,
00:42:02
Speaker
Interact with them periodically through social media. That's going to be one thing. if If I'm in person, gathering with them at times, I may take a different approach. But ah essentially, I would want to share some of the things God is doing in my life, ways he continues to change me.
00:42:25
Speaker
And that often opens up a door to talk about, like, what is God doing in your life? like And there are times when people realize, well, I don't think he's doing anything in my life. Like, salvation is like a ticket I took, you know, a box I checked 30 years ago or 40 years ago, and That, unfortunately, as you said, that that is super common. I grew up like periodically going to church and not believing a thing, and that kind of nominal Christianity is extremely um you know sleep-inducing. you You don't even realize what you don't realize.
00:43:18
Speaker
So through sharing what God is doing. And then if you have a close enough relationship to actually share the truth of scripture,
00:43:32
Speaker
um yeah that like what does it really mean that we are saved by grace but then we're saved as his workmanship unto good works, like he actually begins training us changing us, or Titus 2, that the grace that saves is the grace that trains, trains us, transforms us. So for many people, they've just heard a message, like they went to a Billy Graham crusade, you know, 40 years, 50 years ago. They may have prayed a prayer,
00:44:11
Speaker
but they've never been discipled. They don't see it as an ongoing training, transforming, growing relationship. So I do think we need to cast that vision before people that this this is an ongoing relationship. It's not punctilier in the sense of a moment of time that I prayed a prayer and now I'm good to go. it it It's an ongoing relationship.
00:44:40
Speaker
and But that that is, and that's everywhere. like I remember my kids first time coming home from going to the local public school. The thing that shocked them most in South Carolina was not you know the the garbage, the that the sex and the drugs or whatever else that that kids dabbled with in high school.
00:45:08
Speaker
that they expected, but it was that many still claim to be Christians and did those things. That's the part where it's like, what? So I do think that that's, again, nothing new. That that's always been a challenge is to call people like, if we're going to claim to be followers of Jesus, let's follow Jesus.
00:45:37
Speaker
yeah yeah All right. So, um, you mentioned marriage before, um, I saw an interview with you and your wife.
Personal Challenges and Faith
00:45:47
Speaker
I don't know how long ago it was done. And in it, you said something about not being the, something about not the fix it guy. And, um, I understood it as, as a traditional guy or somewhat traditional guy.
00:46:09
Speaker
ah you know It great pride if I can fix something, like if I can fix anything, if I can fix a flat tire, if I can do anything. It's just a sense of accomplishment. ah i you know not envy, but I so appreciate skilled tradesmen crafts craftsmen and stuff. but But fixing something is gives great pleasure. so um And my wife, you know we've been married over 40 years and you know she'll ask, you know come to me with this situation and and ah you know between the two of us, we'll try to figure it out and I'll try to fix it. you know ah If I got to do some research or counsel with somebody, I'll try to fix it.
00:46:55
Speaker
So that's in our, I'm guessing it's in our nature as guys provide and protect somehow falls under that. And, um, but you talked about, and and I learned this though, later on when, uh, when throughout not having a great example of it in my home life, um, when your wife comes to you, uh, really, really upset about something and you try to start to fix it and you realize that that's not going anywhere. ah and And then someone wise once said, will you just give her a hug and hold her? And don't say anything, which is hard to do when you wanna fix something, right? But I was able to master that. But um but in that session with your wife,
00:47:53
Speaker
You mentioned um at a desperate time where you realized that it was time to pray over my wife. Can you explain like what that looks like? I pray for my wife, I pray with my wife, I pray about my i pray all around my wife. But what does that look like praying over your wife? So when our marriage,
00:48:21
Speaker
this experience occurred in Chicago hit rock bottom. She looked at me a couple different times and said, I hate you. I wish I never married you. I wasn't super bright, but I realized we have a problem. This is not going the way And i I already at the time I had some counseling training and like I felt like my parents didn't have a perfect marriage, but they had a decent one. So I thought, I can i can fix this up till that point because that that's when I realized my wife doesn't trust me at all.
00:49:15
Speaker
she She doesn't want to hear me because anything I would say came across very defensive, very, or very pontificating.
00:49:28
Speaker
And so she really, at that point, really shut down. And so I went to the Lord and said, Lord, what am i what I supposed to do? Because I'm supposed to love my wife, but she really doesn't want anything to do with me at this point.
00:49:45
Speaker
And I felt like he gave me this one thing I could do. like And that was pray in a specific way for her, because she would allow me to give her like a shoulder rub.
00:50:06
Speaker
um or a foot rub, like that was that was it. And so said, okay, we'll work with that. And as I prayed for her and you know especially giving thanks for her, and even at times asking forgiveness for just that the unhelpful things I had done,
00:50:36
Speaker
The Lord and I'm fast forwarding but over time he began to soften her heart and to open my eyes so I'm not saying it's some kind of quick fix but I still think there's something about when a husband in a non-sexual way is you know, either like rubbing her your wife's shoulders and talking to God on behalf of
00:51:10
Speaker
your wife, communicating love through that prayer, not an imprecatory prayer, but a pleading for her. And it began to mean the world to my wife. And so I still do it today. Were you praying out loud during this? Or is this something... Yes, out loud. Yeah. Out loud. Sometimes it was just... I don't know what imprecatory means.
00:51:37
Speaker
imprecatory, as you know, when you read the Psalms and they say, smite him, hip and thigh. you know it's yeah it's not It's not that kind of prayer. It's not got is not using prayer as a means of trying to show your like help her see the wrong she's done, but but just loving because Ephesians 5 describes the love of the husband like the love of Christ as a cleansing, sanctifying love. So it's washing away anxiety, bitterness, fear, tension. And when, especially in a relationship where you're having trouble communicating, that was that was helpful.
00:52:27
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Great. Alright, so while we're on the subject of your wife, ah she's been going through a a serious health battle the last couple of years.
00:52:43
Speaker
um And, you know, we look over and we check in and offer any kind of support we can. um Although whenever we see her, she looks perfectly fine. can Just run us through. Now we know about, you know, a health crisis happens, we know about, you know, getting to the best doctors, we know, and and I'm sure with your network, just and within our church and connections, getting the best possible care, insights, opinions, um tests, everything. ah But there's the day-to-day. ah There's the reality of the flesh. There's fear. There's exhaustion.
00:53:35
Speaker
exhaustion There's confusion. There's wondering. good just don't have to go through every minute, but can you just run us through like, you two are the most optimistic, smiley people that I know in a good way. Um, so, uh, not in a weird way. Tuck his through that a little bit. Sorry.
00:53:58
Speaker
sorry But I know it's a serious question. I don't want to make light of it at all, but
00:54:08
Speaker
Yeah, three and a half years ago, she went in for a what was to be just a normal surgery to remove what they call a fibroid. Most women have them at some point 99% plus are benign and they're nothing. But for her, they dropped the bomb and said, you are the 0.00, whatever percentage,
00:54:38
Speaker
And you have LMS, which is a rare, aggressive cancer that will kill you. At the time, they said you have about 18 months. And it it for a woman, as I shared earlier, who had gone through panic attacks and depression, you you could see you can imagine this is a perfect storm. um But it's been stunning to watch the grace of God because she,
00:55:09
Speaker
She said, even right in the hospital, went right after finding out and we cried and prayed. And and she said, nothing's changed. Like God's still in charge. He still knows the number of our days. His love is strong through Jesus. We're gonna run there. And we did together. And that was three and a half years ago. So she is, and she's done.
00:55:40
Speaker
remarkably well, like she's been through eight surgeries and lots of other treatments. And yet we've traveled around the world and been able to do so so many things even in the midst of the treatment. And that that is just the grace of God. So um currently she has a lot of tumors in her abdomen, a few in her lung,
00:56:08
Speaker
lungs and we we don't know for sure what's next, but the Lord has led us step by step. We're confident he will continue to lead us. And she just blows me away at the grace God is giving her. The Lord made clear right at the beginning, I'm calling you down an uncertain road to be absolutely certain in me.
00:56:38
Speaker
And that those two ideas have been traveling together. Like we don't know exactly what's next, but we have this rock solid certainty in him. ah Philippians 4, rejoice in the Lord always. And again, I say rejoice, let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand. The Lord is at hand. And so we're not gonna be anxious about anything, but in everything with Thanksgiving,
00:57:05
Speaker
we're we're We're just gonna keep trusting him. And it's been true, like the peace of God that passes on all understanding guards our hearts. That doesn't mean we don't have tears. That doesn't mean we know it everything that's going on. But we have definitely sensed, and we're really spoiled to have a loving Christian comm community. You guys have been amazing neighbors and have loved on us in many ways.
00:57:34
Speaker
And to have a whole church praying, we we literally feel carried along. And like right now, she feels good. And so we're we're just gonna keep trusting the Lord step by step. And as she says, it's a win-win. Like it's a win to stay, it's a win to go.
00:58:00
Speaker
but we're praying constantly for a miraculous intervention of the Lord. Yeah. I just, you know, that, yeah, nobody gets out alive. We don't know what this, you know, when our time is up, we all, you know, we, we say these things, but then when we we're presented with, well, time might be up really soon. Um,
00:58:29
Speaker
how do we respond and how do we, you know, cause our response, right? Our, our, our emotional response can determine, you know, the outcome or, or add to, you know, how, how the outcome is, how, uh, the time, the duration, the peacefulness of it. And, uh, so yeah, it's awesome to have community and, and to have the foundation you guys have. So, uh, yeah,
00:58:55
Speaker
It's an inspiration for all of us. So, all right, I wanna go one more question. This is um for all my backslider friends, um including myself, when I backslide, we hear the terminology, um get right with God. So if I came to you and I said, pastor,
00:59:25
Speaker
I backslid, I screwed up, did some really stupid stuff. How hard is it for me to like get right with God? What would you say? I would say in one sense, you're a prayer away. Like it's just, God says, cry unto call unto me, I will answer. So to be able to,
00:59:50
Speaker
just be open and honest about where I am, what I've done, that's all God wants. Like come, that that first and foremost, like come to me, all you who are weary, heavy laden, I will give you rest. um So that that would be number one, can can we be open and honest and cry out for help? um But then,
01:00:19
Speaker
where I think a lot of people stop is then like, listen to what Hebrews 3 says, take care brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, leading you to fall away from the living God, but exhort one another every day, as long as it's called today, that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin,
01:00:49
Speaker
who we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. So that, I think about that a lot. Like it's one thing to cry out, ask forgiveness. God, you know, swallows us up with His grace. But then,
01:01:11
Speaker
It says here we need daily or exhortation so that we're not deceived by the deceitfulness of sin. So then part of continuing on and finishing well is getting into community so that we have people who are speaking truth into us, exhorting us. And and for me, some of those people are dead people.
01:01:42
Speaker
like reading really good stuff and listening to really good stuff and being close enough to a community that knows you. Because sin, as this passage highlights, is deceitful. And we will buy the lie if we're not in community under words of encouragement.
01:02:13
Speaker
Yep, yep. Yeah, sinners can encourage sinners, of which we all are. Yeah. So yeah, awesome. Hey Pastor, I really appreciate your time today. I was able to just feel so blessed to be able to corral you with your busy schedule between family, ministry. Oh my goodness, I can't keep up. But anyway, thanks so much.
01:02:43
Speaker
ah That's a wrap. I hope everyone enjoyed today's episode and you got some takeaways that you can use. More information on Pastor Peter Harvard and North Hills Church will be in the notes. Please share this with your friends. And don't forget all my stuff at russelljonespeaks dot.com. If you're a parent or grandparent or mentor to attend a 13 year old, check out our 60 day transformational interactive video series, top secrets of success for kids and parents. It's amazing.
01:03:11
Speaker
It will equip and encourage parents and kids, yes, Top Secrets of Success dot com, get on our email list, jump on a call with me. And in the words, the inimitable Hulk Hogan, say your prayers, take your vitamins and you'll never go wrong. Then you can all go and make it a great day. Bye for now.