Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Destination Change, a podcast where we talk recovery, treatment, and more. I'm your host, Andy Fiedler-Sutton, with the National Behavioral Health Association providers, and I use she, her pronouns. My guest today is Justin Phillips, who uses he, him.
Speaker: Justin has been serving in the addiction and mental health treatment fields for over 20 years. He currently serves as the Executive Director of Options Recovery Services, a multi-service addiction treatment agency spanning California.
Speaker: He has served in several leadership roles across systems, including designing and developing large SUD treatment at agencies and programs, detoxification programs, and integrated co-occurring programs. In addition, Justin serves voluntarily as NADAC's Southwest Regional Vice President, a national executive role influencing national addiction treatment policy.
Speaker: Justin also works as a consultant to small addiction treatment centers in need of support and plays a critical role with CAADPE as the operator options for the well-known Occupational Mentor Certification Program, which trains incarcerated inmates throughout California prisons to become certified SUD counselors in California.
Speaker: After being honorably discharged from the military at age 22, Justin struggled with addiction and mental health issues as a combat veteran re-entering civilian life. Eventually persuaded into treatment, he embraced recovery.
Speaker: Treatment that he received inspired him to shift career paths and began working on SUD certification, originally certified through CADAC in 2009. He has dedicated his life and career to helping societies most vulnerable as both the executive and direct service levels. Welcome to a Destination Change, Justin.
Speaker: Thank you, Angie. Now, my first question is usually I ask origin kind of how you got into the service. Your bio already kind of does that. But let's expand a little bit. what What made you decide that you wanted to go into substance use based on your own experiences? Yes, absolutely. So as a young man, i was exposed to a lot of violence, a lot of drugs, alcohol. It was just a part of my lifestyle. And unfortunately, the military kind of supports that type of behavior. And so by the time I got out of the military, i was very traumatized and very addicted. And subsequently, that took me down a rabbit hole of distress and pain and lots of medical problems.
Speaker: And I ended up begrudgingly going into treatment based on my ex-wife's ultimatum that if I was not to go to treatment, I would not see my unborn son, who was coming about two months later.
Speaker: And so I reluctantly agreed and ended up in a treatment center down in Southern California called Oasis. And i met a man there named Paxson Dickerson, and he was my counselor. It was the first time I've ever received any counseling.
Speaker: And he worked with me the entire time I was in treatment. And he was one of the first people in my life that saw my potential or saw potential in me. And he built me back up. from something that i had become over many years. He got me reconnected with happiness in my life. He got me reconnected with perspective and understanding things.
Speaker: And he inspired me. And so when I left treatment, I was actually driving home with my family and I realized how significant the impact was on me.
Speaker: in treatment and how dramatic the change, how I was thinking differently, how I was, it just changed everything for me. And I wanted to do that for others. He was my primary inspiration and continues to be. We still stay in contact and I call him every year to make sure he's okay. So it's, that he was really my inspiration and, and I just wanted to to do that for others.
Speaker: And that, that was 20 years ago. So. It sounds like you chose well. Now, one of the ongoing themes with our podcast is that recovery is different for everyone, obviously, you know, that your recovery journey is different from all the other people I've interviewed. So one of the things I have to ask is in your definition, what does it mean to go through treatment recovery? What does that and involve?
Speaker: Yeah. So so generally, like my are you talking about my experience specifically or just in general? Both, whatever you feel comfortable with, both as someone who's gone through recovery as well as someone who works with people who go through recovery.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that I think that ultimately that there is this kind of stigma around drug people who are addicted to drugs or alcohol getting treatment.
Speaker: and how that somehow is going to just eliminate the need for drugs and alcohol. And so one of the things that i I really focus on and really try to pay attention to is that treatment centers and addiction treatment centers are not just there to teach you how to stop using drugs or alcohol.
Speaker: Treatment centers are there to show you that you have the capacity to live life without them and that you can function without them. And I think that's a very different message.
Speaker: It's a more positive message. So that my philosophy and treatment just in general and my approach to recovery is that it's a matter of going within and really understanding What led and what contributed to our life are the traumas that we ensued, the pain that we still hold on to and that by dealing with those things, it no longer requires the level of coping that was required previously to deal with all those things.
Speaker: And so I think that addiction and in general is a symptom of many possibilities for people and requires very unique and individualized care.
Speaker: For me, I was very much resistant and difficult while I was in treatment. And I remember how patient and how compassionate Paxton was with me.
Speaker: And that was kind of a model. for me to be able to replicate because it invited engagement and continues to invite engagement in our treatment programs. So i think the attitude towards it is how do we teach you how to live life, find your full potential and get to the place where you no longer even need it.
Speaker: And it's that's kind of the messaging that I like to send. So I think it's it helps with some of the stigma that our population has to face. Well, speaking of stigma, the reason we call the podcast Destination Change is, again, it's a journey, not a single line, and that you can get thrown off the journey, that you can go backwards, you can go forwards. It's not a straight line kind of thing. So one of the things I like to ask, too, is, in your opinion, what are some of the biggest barriers people experience to moving forward on that recovery journey?
Speaker: The stigma being one of them. Yeah. Yeah, I think access is a big issue. i think depending on the county in which people are in, resources are thin in different counties. i You have up here in the Bay Area, we have we have one county that has 20.
Speaker: 25 treatment providers and we have the next county next door that's one of the poorest counties in the state and they have one or two, right? And so the people in that county, it' it's just as populated, but it's those folks don't have the same resources.
Speaker: Right. And so I think one of the biggest barriers is access and immediate access to care, whether that be initial crisis involvement, mental health crisis or substance use related crisis, and then ultimately being able to actually get them in the door.
Speaker: get them into a treatment center. And what we've seen is that depending on the location, there might not be any resources there. There might be some sort of small outpatient facility that provides addiction treatment, but it might not be the level of care that somebody needs.
Speaker: And so some of these smaller counties that don't necessarily have a lot of resources, they have to funnel out and contract with organizations that are outside of their county. And that can be a real hardship for people that are that don't have the means to be able to do all that.
Speaker: So I think linkage is a barrier. i think that access is a barrier. And i think just fear in general. I think that the more comfortable people feel when they come in or engage with a treatment center or reputation of how treatment centers treat people, that tends to reduce some of those barriers around the fear and access and things like that. But there are definitely still barriers.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. One of the things we also like to talk about on the podcast is the concept of recovery capital. You developed Alameda County's first a substance use detoxification and crisis center, which obviously helps with that's a recovery capital thing. Kind of talk about how that got going. What made you say, Hey, we need to do this. but Some of the issues that you came across and in developing it, that kind of, you're some of the horror stories as well as some of the successes. Oh yeah.
Speaker: So in Alameda County, one of the things about it was about 16 years ago or so. And Alameda County has a very large public hospital. It's called Highland Hospital. And the amount of people that go through Highland Hospital, i mean, is tremendous. And so the wait times there are know can be all day.
Speaker: for somebody who's in crisis or is having some sort of emergency. And what we found is looking at a lot of the data is that a good third of this population that was going into Highland really needed substance use services. They didn't necessarily need um hospital services, but there wasn't any safe landing pad for them to get immediate access to treatment or some form of help.
Speaker: And so what the What the county did is passed a measure, a tax measure, that allowed the rebuilding of the county hospital because it was a kind of in despair.
Speaker: And one of the things that they wanted to do is create, a at the time, a social model detox that could support all of the treatment programs that were in the county, but also provide an additional element.
Speaker: And this was something that is getting more and more attention now. throughout the country by the current CEO of that agency is that we opened up a sobering center And sobering centers at the time were unheard of.
Speaker: They're essentially a 24 hour or less stay for people who need to get in somewhere quickly and be supervised and be taken care of. And so what this facility was a combination of a 32 bed detox and a 50 bed sobering center.
Speaker: And so the beauty in that is that anyone from anywhere who had any sort of substance use issue that they were struggling with, they could get immediate access into the sobering center the same day.
Speaker: And so that in it created a huge impact on the system because what it actually did, and and we have studies showing this, that it reduced the The hospital wait times by 50% in Highland Hospital by opening up that first detox and sobering center. Now, what happens at a detox and sobering center?
Speaker: Well, a lot of exciting things, right? lot of things that are fun and a lot of things that are very challenging. Unfortunately, a lot of people are homeless and we know that. And when there are resources available, people want to utilize them if they can get in quickly and if they feel comfortable.
Speaker: And so some of the great things about the detox and sobering center, which is one of the largest in California that I know of, is the navigation of flow and making sure that in an environment where you have intoxicated and really sick people, it needs to be comfortable.
Speaker: It needs to have good food. and needs to have all those things. And so that was that's the that was the intention to create a really safe and welcoming environment for people, no matter how they behave.
Speaker: And as you could imagine, ah sobering center is designed to take intoxicated people in and kind of hold them for a brief period of time. So we would have police drop offs and lots of other things like that.
Speaker: And 50 intoxicated people in a building is an elephant to lift. Right. and So everything that you could possibly think of that could go wrong in terms of client interaction or potential violence or anything.
Speaker: It all happened. OK. And it all it's just part of getting that many people into a small environment. And we faced tons of challenges along the way.
Speaker: We had obviously intoxicated people that acted out and got violent with staff. We had somebody throw a a cup of coffee, but ah a hot cup of coffee at a nurse.
Speaker: We had all just all kinds of dramatic things that happened over the course of the time that that was open. But it's still open today. It's called Cherry Hill Detox and it's in Oakland. and lots of threats, lots of things. But one one of the things that really stood out to me, and this was early on in my career, earlier on in my career, is that I learned that regardless of state of mind, of intoxication level, I worked for a while in a psychiatric unit, locked psychiatric unit for people that were experiencing fifty one fifty s
Speaker: And it really comes down to compassion and kindness. And so it doesn't, we get intoxicated folks, people that are detoxing, people that are psychotic, people that get 5150, all that, right?
Speaker: Everybody has this stigma around them being so dangerous. OK, and really, it's not that they're dangerous. It's that they're just like anyone else. You treat people with respect and courtesy and compassion and they will return in treating you in most cases with courtesy and respect and compassion. So, you know, even in some of the most dangerous environments like a sobering center or like a locked psychiatric unit.
Speaker: I was able to engage with people and our teams were able to engage with people no matter what state of mind they're in because they're coming from that place of compassion. Right. And it keeps everybody safe.
Speaker: The more kind and compassionate we are, the safer we are. And so even in the prisons and all the different places that I've been working in and over the last 20 years, I've never been assaulted or seriously threatened, I think. and And that is a product of just having respect for people, no matter what walk of life they're coming from and no matter what stage of life they're in.
Speaker: Well, along the same lines, let's talk about the work with California prisons. They've got the double stigma because they're also in in jail. So which has that stigma attached to it as well as the substance use stigma. What are what are some of the hurdles that you've overcome and some of the success stories you've had with working with that program?
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely. So that program was actually designed about 15 years ago as a way to address overcrowding in the prison systems.
Speaker: So one thing that the government realized here in California is that that there were way too many people in our prisons, way too many people in our prisons in California. way too many.
Speaker: And there were way too many drugs that were being brought into prisons. And so at the time, there were no drug treatment options for people while they were inside. There was also not a lot to participate in, a lot not a lot of programming.
Speaker: And so they wanted to pilot a program where they took 50 men at the time at a prison up in Vacaville, California, where they were interested in learning about addiction and addiction counseling.
Speaker: And so for the first time, they received treatment in Solano State Prison for substance use disorder by qualified professionals. And after that treatment, they went through a program that we call the Occupational Mentor Certification Program.
Speaker: And what that is, is a comprehensive training, education, intern, and certification course for inmates who are locked inside the prison system. So working with all three certifying organizations, we have CADAP, CATIE, and CCAP.
Speaker: All three are partnered on that project to be able to proctor examinations and certify individuals who are incarcerated. Now, it that is a big lift for a prison system that is not used to helping people.
Speaker: Right. And so over time, what happens is the barrier is that one of the biggest barriers is that. the inmates have to, they have to take a leap of faith.
Speaker: Okay. And that leap of faith is that even though they might be involved in prison politics, or there's rules that they have to follow, they're willing to step outside of that and do something for themselves.
Speaker: And what happens is that that gains respect amongst other inmates in the population, because they see that these folks are getting better. Right.
Speaker: But The other barrier is the culture, the culture of the prison system in general. And so the cultures are focused on punishment, not so much in in California over the last maybe six, seven years, but it's all about punishment.
Speaker: And so that's how COs are trained. That's how people that move up the chain are trained. And so OMCP is initially met with a lot of resistance.
Speaker: cops don't really see inmate or the CEOs didn't really see inmates as people that were capable of change, people that are, can do something different. And so what happened is after these 50 folks became certified addiction counselors, people started approaching them in the prison systems and saying, Hey, what are you guys doing? Like, what are you doing in there?
Speaker: And, They explained that they were counselors and they were training to be counselors. And so it kind of got ah got contagious and people started seeing these men as different and kind of treated.
Speaker: Right. And how this is stuff we don't talk about in prison. How are this how is this happening? And so the mentors were able to help people that are in the prison system with a variety of things, right? Talking about different parts of their traumas or different things that were not really unsafe or safe to talk about previously.
Speaker: And because of the selection of the men and women who are involved in this, they They are people who are ready for that step. In other words, they've completed enough, they've done enough, had enough time without any sort of incident to where they qualify to be in that role.
Speaker: And so what we find is after about a year of OMCP operation, we get i get I have the pleasure of attending graduations after they complete a cohort. And every warden that I talk to tells me that the whole whole culture of the prison changed the minute OMCP became active.
Speaker: And what that tells me is that OMCP makes prisons safer. It allows inmates to be able to engage with other inmates in a quality conversation, in a meaningful conversation. And it gives them, the folks that are being trained, trained a tremendous trade and education and skill set to go out into the community and provide great care to people.
Speaker: And so what's happened over the years is that out of the approximately, I think there's about 1,200 inmates that we've trained in total and certified.
Speaker: Throughout the California prison system, over 500 of them have been released. And so these are folks that earned their freedom and other people saw that.
Speaker: OK, so what they saw is doing good actually can translate into getting the hell out of here one day. And so what we do is we encourage them, get into the field, go do, let's do this work. And we're seeing it all over the state.
Speaker: There are any county that they're being paroled in any, all the treatment programs that I talked to. i was just talking to a couple different CEOs for large treatment programs in Southern California. And they all want people that are coming out of the prisons because they're such high quality counselors.
Speaker: So they have the lived experience. They have all those things. So I think a barrier for that program that we face is legislatively and people who are on parole can't treat other people on parole.
Speaker: And unfortunately, there's a lot of our population. that receive addiction services who are on parole. And so if a substance use counselor is certified and he's on parole and he's trying to go to work, how is he going to go to work if he can't serve the people he's there to serve?
Speaker: And so one of the things that we're working on is that CAADPE is The CADP is the California Association of Alcohol and Drug Program Executives.
Speaker: And that's essentially the all the CEOs and leaders of the addiction treatment agencies in California. And they all they all agree that legislation needs to be championed in California to be able to release or eliminate some of those barriers.
Speaker: And we're in the process now of getting governmental support and writing up legislation and all that good stuff to remove some of those barriers. So hopefully and ah in two or three years, our folks that are criminally justice impacted or reentering our community with skill sets that they can contribute to the solution, that they have the opportunity to do that without the gu the state or the counties judging them for something that happened 30 years ago.
Speaker: So that's kind of that's my take on it. Now, continuing along the same line in your story about your past and your military thing, you mentioned that the military is not exactly encouraging people to acknowledge that they have mental health and or substance abuse issues. Do you, in your opinion, kind of ah talk a bit little bit about that? Why you think that's specific to the military? Is it specific to the military? Is it a be manly kind of thing? And also, is it getting any better worse? Is it dips and things? That kind of stuff.
Speaker: Sure. Yeah. So I was in the military and from 1998 to 2002, which was a very heightened time of conflict. nine eleven we had lots of other things that happened during that time.
Speaker: But it Alcohol and drug use is dominant in the military. It's a way that people cope and celebrate. It's a way that people they i mean people look forward to that.
Speaker: it's just ah It's like an accepted part of the culture, especially when people go overseas and visiting other countries. In America, you have to be 21 to drink. In Thailand, you don't have to be any age to drink.
Speaker: Right. So the attitude towards it is that as a warrior, OK, or as a trained warrior. Right. People are supposed to be that this is how people are programmed in the military to be a warrior. You have to be ready.
Speaker: You have to be capable. You have to be mentally sharp. You have to be constantly prepared. Right. And what happens is when folks demonstrate express a mental health or a substance use related concern, it can actually be problematic for them.
Speaker: Because what happens is they get they get sent to a mental health professional or what have you, but they're removed from their unit. And so their unit is getting and continuing the work, but they're getting help or they're talking about what they're talking about. And then it's says it like you said, it's kind of like this kind of like machismo thing, right? This you're not really a man if you can't just make it through it. And what I'm seeing is that there are a tremendous amount of resources for
Speaker: for people who were in the, I was in the Navy, so with a bunch of Marines, but for the Navy and the Marine Corps, there's a tremendous amount of resources now because they're seeing that they can't just kick people out because they have an addiction.
Speaker: They can't just kick people out because they took a pill they weren't supposed to or something. Who knows? It could be a hundred different reasons, right? But There are actual treatment centers that are funded by the federal government that are on military establishments that are geared to help military members in dealing with some of those issues.
Speaker: But for the more combat focused military branches, it's very difficult for them, i think, just individually to reach out for help and be considered unstable or ineffective possible.
Speaker: part of their unit. And so it it is really damaging. But I think that as we've gone over the last 20 years and monitoring a lot of what I've seen happen, I know that we have certified substance use disorder counselors that are literally contracted with the federal government to go into commands.
Speaker: So ships, naval ships, Marine Corps depots, all that kind of stuff. and actually have that service proactively pushed and made it like less stigmatizing. And that definitely wasn't happening 25 years ago.
Speaker: So lots of things I think that are promising in terms of the direction that we're going now. That's all in limbo right now as a result of po federal policy.
Speaker: And that's scary, right? Because without addiction services in the military, that means more people are going to get addicted and more people are going to get discharged and more people are going to get be homeless when they get out of the military because they have a poor mark on their discharge record. And it's just it's a good thing that we have these things in place. But I am a little concerned about the sustainability of that under our current political plan Well, let's change gears a little bit and talk about leadership. You know, your bio said you had served in in several leadership roles. You're the executive director. I'm sure you know our audience is a wide variety of people from people who are counselors to other executive director leaders.
Speaker: I'm sure you don't have an average day slash week, but kind of what exactly do you do? True. I put out, well, I put out a lot of fires. and Lots and lots of meetings. yeah Yeah, lots of meetings. But one of the most important things for me and just being in a leadership role that I'm in now is is making sure I'm doing everything I can to advocate for the profession, to advocate for funding for our organization.
Speaker: I spend a lot of time networking. I spend a lot of time working with county administrators, state officials, folks, other behavioral health directors or people that are laterally at the same position as me and try to really solve some of society's problems.
Speaker: Right. Like ultimately, i participate in helping to come up with innovative ways to deal with homelessness, how we as a system and as a society want to address addiction in our state.
Speaker: There's a lot of new legislation that's coming out that's changing how we do things. And i think that's a good thing. I think that ultimately we need So I'm very heavily involved in legislative efforts, obviously the overall leadership of options recovery services and making sure that we continue to advance with the field to make sure that we're ready and prepared for any changes that are coming. And sometimes those are big lifts.
Speaker: It's our state and our nation is at a tremendous workforce shortage for substance use disorder counselors. And sometimes it can be really challenging to put all those pieces together and provide services for people who need it.
Speaker: So I'm involved in a lot of policy oversight, financial oversight, and then really engaging my teams to ensure that they're well taken care of, that they have the support that they need, and that they're able to deliver the same compassionate leadership to their subordinates and their direct reports. And so the attitude is i do spend a lot of time on modeling for other executives and senior leaders at our facility on really how to address things without using fear or any sort of manipulative tactic in management.
Speaker: It's really leading with compassion. And obviously, there are times that performance issues need to get addressed or different things like that. But my job is really to to make sure that our footprint is a helping footprint, not something that is causing problems for people or making it difficult for them.
Speaker: And so we're constantly changing and shifting and moving and see what our clients need as as things progress, as new drugs are offered, as things are legalized.
Speaker: There's all these different things that are occurring. And we want to make sure that we're right at the at the tip of that. And that's part of my responsibility. It's actually all my responsibility. yes So it's a big helping footprint that I'm proud to be a part of.
Speaker: What would you say is the hardest slash least favorite part of what you do? Oh, I think probably financial insecurity, right?
Speaker: Financial insecurity is a regular process in nonprofits. We are fortunate that we own assets, so we're not necessarily as vulnerable, but counties and states, they're don't like to give a lot of money to services that need a lot more money.
Speaker: And part of what I don't like doing is fighting for what we deserve and what we're what we've earned. And so a lot of things happen where we periodically will have to, we'll be in contract and we'll be doing different services for a county or a provider, but the reimbursement rates are so low that it doesn't,
Speaker: it doesn't really fulfill the need. And so one of the biggest challenges for me is like, okay, if I'm sending an instructor down to a prison to teach and he's only going to get reimbursed $75 for a hotel, that's a problem, right? And he can't get a hotel for $75. don't think anyone right? In many of these regions. Not unless it's a really, really interesting hotel. Right. And so I think that part of challenge that part of what I don't like doing is constantly being faced with financial dilemmas or cuts or county shifting or whatever it might be. Or there might be an RFP that comes out
Speaker: And we have this really great idea that we want to do And then we get back the information that, well, you know, it's going to take three million to do this project, but can you do it for one?
Speaker: And so it's piecing together with crumbs, something that can be productive in hopes that it can match that level of a $3 million dollars project. Right.
Speaker: So that's kind of my take. Now, of course, as promised, the opposite. What is your favorite slash easiest part of what you do? Oh, it's the people part. So anytime I have meeting, just meetings, and and I love everyone I work with, I chose this organization specifically as one that I was familiar with and one that i wanted to help grow. And so I think the funnest part for me is being creative and working with other creative people.
Speaker: we've We've been able to do a lot of innovative work I mentioned earlier. One of them is around homelessness, addressing homelessness from a substance use disorder lens.
Speaker: And we're actually doing that in the city of Berkeley. That has a huge homelessness issue and it's actually very successful. And so we're starting to replicate it in other places and try different strategies ah instead of sending a suit out to deal with a homeless person and try to get them. Let's why don't we send somebody out who can actually engage with them and actually will address their substance use.
Speaker: And what we found is that there are so many people that that do want treatment that are homeless and just nobody has asked them. Nobody told them how to get there or where you can get there.
Speaker: And so that type of innovation excites me. That type of additional programming excites me. And I think being a part of a system that through NADAC, through CDCR, and through the prison systems, like I get to have a lot of influence on policies.
Speaker: And I get to have a lot of influence on doing the right thing. And i I love doing that. I love having that voice and being able to, i mean, we treatment programs are underpaid all the time.
Speaker: And executive directors of treatment programs have to fight for money. And that's just one of the things that comes with a job. And so that can be a detriment, but there are elements of those engagements that actually ill elicit creativity and can create expansion. And i I love when we as an agency can serve more, can do more.
Speaker: So yeah, long-winded answer to that one. Yeah. And along those lines, you've been in the industry for a while. In your personal opinion, what are some of the biggest changes you've seen in the industry, both bad and good?
Speaker: Yeah, well, good. I'll start with the good. So the good is that over the years, more people have been allotted or have been permitted access to SUD treatment based on being eligible for Medi-Cal.
Speaker: And obviously, we're all in this state as a country trying to determine whether or not that's going to stay intact or not. And that's creating a lot of anxiety.
Speaker: I mean, ultimately, the good thing is that over the years, more and more people are getting substance use treatment. That's clear. Ever since the ACA came out and was implemented in 2014, it opened the doors wide open to treatment centers to treat adults that didn't have an income and they had Medi-Cal.
Speaker: And so that was a move in the right direction. That was ah an absolute move in the right direction. As a result, what we found is that the nature of the drugs over the years have become more and more complex.
Speaker: So we have things like fentanyl that kill people on the spot. Fentanyl isn't heroin. So some of the harder things are trying to catch up with fentanyl.
Speaker: some of the substances that are out there and how and what we can do to help address them. I think that we as a society are still trying to figure out how to deal with fentanyl ah effectively.
Speaker: We have Narcan and we have other things, but because people's tolerances are so high, it makes it very hard. Some people don't come back after one Narcan blast. Right.
Speaker: And so that's painful to see, because as a field, we we want to be as as close as possible to being able to meet the needs of those that population. But our county systems and sometimes our state systems are just behind in that.
Speaker: And so sometimes it takes a while for it to catch up. Well, now the more difficult question, because things are changing not only on a daily, but sometimes hourly basis. Do you have theories as to where you see the industry going in the next five years or so?
Speaker: Yeah, I think that nationally it's going to be challenging. Nationally it's going to be challenging because there are a lot of states that don't even recognize the impact of what's taking place.
Speaker: And so we do have a tremendous amount of folks who advocate for substance use across the nation. especially through NADAC and through a lot of that policy.
Speaker: But I think that the the there's no way to ah ignore the drug epidemic. You can't ignore it, right? It's tied to homelessness. It's tied to crime. It's tied to everything.
Speaker: And so I feel like somewhat of a sense of security in that people are always going to need our help. People are going to need substance use treatment, just like they're going to need mental health treatment.
Speaker: I think that we're going to have to, as a field, become better at being able to show that or show our effectiveness.
Speaker: And a lot of that is tied into data and things like that. So my recommendation just in general for agencies that might be wondering like what is the next step or what what should I get prepared for or what's coming down the pike well outcomes are coming down the pike and so what the best place to be and the positioning in regards to an organization that wants to stay sustainable over the next five years It's really about diversification of funding and whether that be through grants, whether that be through additional initiatives.
Speaker: But there are a lot of programs that are are dependent on county funds or dependent on state funds. And that can be a real problem if there are Medi-Cal hits.
Speaker: So I think the field will be fine as long as there's enough programs and agencies that understand that over the next five years, it's going to be about quality, not quantity.
Speaker: And so we have to be able to show as a system that we're providing quality care to people and we have measurable quality care, right? And so that I'm excited about because I think that will inevitably showcase those who are doing excellent work in the community and it will help those that have a little ways to go or are smaller to strive towards something.
Speaker: Now we're getting close to the end. We're now going to enter what I call the advice section. If you could travel back in time to when you first started out, what advice would you give yourself? I.e. what's the biggest lesson you feel like you've learned?
Speaker: I would say really decide or really think about and talk to people in roles that you're striving to achieve and make sure that those are roles that are conducive with your education and training.
Speaker: I think that I took a clinical track in my education, which essentially allows me to be a therapist, right? But it it didn't teach me how to be an executive director. And some of it is just through experience and having good mentors.
Speaker: But For people that are starting off or me starting off in the field, I think if I would have started off and really considered my career path and what direction I wanted to move towards, I i probably would have taken more ah schooling around just organization nonprofit organizational leadership and things like that.
Speaker: I think I would have been probably would have got there a little bit quicker, but I was on a clinical track, like I said. So I have a lot. I'm a licensed therapist working with a lot of CEOs that are MBAs or business folks and really understand business.
Speaker: And I'm the therapist who's in charge of the business. Right. So it's taken me a while over the last 10, 12 years to really learn the business. So I think it's really about talking to people who are in positions that you want to be in or that people want to be in.
Speaker: Right. And really getting a sense of what that looks like down the line. And consider whether that's the path you want to go down or whether you want to continue clinically.
Speaker: Right. like my I get a kind of a little bit of blend of the both. But if I could do it all over again, I probably would have pursued a a maybe a secondary master's or something like that while I had the time to be able to just get be a little bit more informed on how to have that big footprint.
Speaker: And then what resources do you typically use on a regular basis to kind of keep up to date with what's going on in the industry as well as to keep yourself just aware? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I get the national stuff through my role at NADAC.
Speaker: We have regular meetings and then we discuss national policy and adjustments and how we can advocate for certain things. The other pieces are counties, different counties that we work in They oftentimes get information from the state first.
Speaker: so they can get information to us. And same thing with the state. It's different roles that I'm in, different associations, like the CADPE Association tends to have a tremendous amount of information, a tremendous amount of advocacy.
Speaker: And I would definitely encourage those providers that are not attached to CADPE to consider it because it really does provide the most up-to-date kind of level Well, I guess if you're in California, Cadpe is the one to go, is the one to do. But it's it's it's really exclusive to the the top leadership of of the organization. But that keeps me informed on exactly what's happening at the state and local levels and what other providers are struggling with. And so it it helps me get a real snapshot. We get updates every week.
Speaker: in that regard. So join associations, associations, whether it be with California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists or the National Association of Social Work or your certifying organization, CCAP. I mean, there's so many organizations that inform all of us on on really what's going on.
Speaker: And this is where I plug, of course, also with the National Behavioral Health Association providers, we got Got to plug my own company here. Other resources is the National Association of Providers. And yes.
Speaker: On our last question, before I ask how people can get a hold of you, kind of a reiteration of the first question, but from gut feeling, gut reaction without thinking about it, why do you do what you do?
Speaker: I just care about people. I care about people in every, it's a lifestyle for me. And I want the best for people. i see potential in people. i know where I was and where I am today. And those are very po polar opposites.
Speaker: And so i I've lived it and I know that it's possible. i know it and I see it every day. And I think that I see that in people. I see their strength before I see their pain.
Speaker: That's why I do it. I really, i think I'm able to bring something to the field that that ignites and empowers the population that is thrown away by our society.
Speaker: Now, before we get into how people can get ahold of you, was there something that you wanted to talk about that we haven't or that you thought i was going to ask, but I didn't? I don't think so. i'd know you had some good questions. I hope I answered them. Okay. I think they are thorough.
Speaker: ye no I always ask that because there's sometimes people who ah go in with a certain idea of what I'm going to be talking about. So I always want to make sure I give them the chance. Okay, well then if people want to get a hold of you or learn more about you, how do they get a hold of you?
Speaker: You can look us up on optionsrecovery.org and it's spelled just like it sounds. So it's options, plural, recovery.org. And all the information there is, you can see me there and how to get ahold of me.
Speaker: And then kind of see some of the things that I was talking about with OMCP and some of the prison programs and just some of the innovative work we're doing in Berkeley. It's all on our website there. So,
Speaker: Very easy to get a hold We have a drop-in office in Berkeley. And yeah, if anyone want would wants to get a hold of me or has questions, like, yeah, just reach out through the website and I can definitely respond and help in any way I can.
Speaker: You've been listening to Destination Change. Our guest today was Justin Phillips. Thank you for being here. Our theme song is Sun Nation by Kitsa and used via Creative Commons license by the Free Music Archive. Please consider rating and reviewing the podcast on Apple Podcasts so we can get more listeners. In the meantime, you can always see more about the podcast, including show notes and where else to listen, on our website, www.nbhap.org. If have questions for the podcast, please email us at info at nbhap.org.
Speaker: Thanks for listening.
