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Community Supported Agriculture (CSA)
126 Plays1 year ago
On this episode, we have a special guest, Emily Spencer from the Center of Crop Diversification, who will share with us some insights on community supported agriculture, or CSA for short. What is CSA and how does it benefit both farmers and consumers? How can you get involved in a CSA program near you? And what are some of the challenges and opportunities of this alternative food system? Tune in to find out!
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Transcript
Introduction and Host's Anecdote
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Hort Culture, where a group of extension professionals and plant people talk about the business, production, and joy of planting seeds and helping them grow. Join us as we store the culture of horticulture.
00:00:17
Speaker
All right. Well, we usually start this podcast out with a question, but instead I'm going to brag. So deal with it. Cool. That's pretty much where we're at. Are you bragging on yourself or what's going on here? I mean, I guess I'm kind of bragging on all of us. I just happen to be the recipient of the information, but. Nice. We'll look at that. Yeah. I was stopped. I was at the organic association of Kentucky's annual conference this past week.
00:00:45
Speaker
And I was stopped because somebody heard my voice and they said, Alexis? And I was like, I don't know you. And they were like, are you Alexis, podcast Alexis? And I was like, yeah. And I felt super cool. And they were so excited and told me how much they loved the podcast. So shout out to those people.
00:01:06
Speaker
Two of them, actually. So it's really a brag on all of us. I just happen to be the voice involved at that moment. Maybe we should rename it Podcast Alexis, the Podcast Alexis show.
00:01:18
Speaker
At some point, we need to add the video content on our YouTube channel so that people don't have to ask. They'll just know and say, hey, Alexis, instead of, hey, are you the podcast Alexis? I mean, I don't know. That's how you get kidnapped, I think. Yeah. Oh, we're definitely going to be taken. I don't want to be taken. If it takes me away from my responsibilities, I may be up for it. I'm just saying. Was any other person's parent like that crazy one who was like, you cannot have your name on your backpack because someone will steal you. Absolutely.
Introduction to CSAs with Guest Expert
00:01:49
Speaker
Oh, and by the way, we have a guest on today. So Emily is on with us again from the Center for Crop Diversification because we're talking about
00:01:59
Speaker
CSA's today and as a avid CSA lover, I'm very excited about that. So if you don't know what CSA's are or you want to know more about what they are, this is a great episode for you. Also, don't get kidnapped. So that's my plan. Important safety tip. Important safety tip, don't get kidnapped. But anyways, welcome to the Hort Culture Podcast and welcome Emily. We're so glad to have you. Awesome. Thanks. Thanks you all. I'm happy to be here.
00:02:26
Speaker
We're happy you've not been kidnapped. Me too. Tell the weather where you are. We're actually sunny for once.
00:02:35
Speaker
Actually, we're in the same we're in the same city, but I was in a microclimate and he can grow certain flowers that Alexis is jealous of not to bring up old business. Not that I can't grow them. It is that you all have them for me. I see. It's a Tommy, not a quality thing, Brad. Ray said, not me. That's true.
00:03:05
Speaker
You always have to start stuff. Yeah.
Understanding CSAs and Their Financial Model
00:03:08
Speaker
So, CSAs. What the heck is a CSA? Not everyone listening today may be familiar with that term. So, what's everybody's definition? Because I know that the definition can be really specific, depending on where you're at and what you're doing, or it can be a little bit more broad. So, what is a CSA? I know that's what we're talking about today. Who is it? Emily? Hi, Emily. How do you define CSA? Yeah, I'll go.
00:03:32
Speaker
I always like when I'm explaining to someone who has no idea what it is, which happens kind of frequently. Yeah, I, you know, like there's like the very traditional idea of what a CSA is. And CSA stands for, there's like a couple of different ways people explain it, but community shared agriculture or community supported agriculture.
00:03:57
Speaker
And essentially what it is is kind of the customer sharing the risk of the farm with the farmer by buying a subscription to the farm's produce or products, whatever it is they're selling upfront at the beginning of the season, which is really cool for farmers. They know exactly how much money they're going to get throughout the season instead of kind of the week to week changes of the farmer's market, let's say.
00:04:24
Speaker
pouring down rain one day or something, no one comes to the farmer's market. It just kind of mitigates that risk. Yeah, I would say that's like the most traditional way to think about it.
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah, no, I love it. I think you pointed out something that a lot of people forget about because usually when you're describing a CSA, like, you know, I just kind of say like, oh, it's like a subscription, like a weekly or a monthly or, you know, kind of whatever it is. And every farm's got a sort of a different version of CSAs now. But what you pointed out is so important is that it's
00:04:56
Speaker
that the customer, the client is in it with the farmer, right? So there's no guarantee that you're going to get tomatoes every week because the tomatoes might die. And that's like kind of part of it. You're going to get your money's worth or at least the farmer usually tries, you know, maybe they have an off week. I know I've been a part of a CSA where they were like, Hey, we had torrential flooding and so we can't, we have nothing for you this week, but we're going to extend your season an additional week. So you always get what you pay for.
00:05:23
Speaker
But it's, you know, you might get a lot more yellow squash one week than you really, really thought you might. And so really mitigating that risk. And I think that's something a lot of people forget when they join a CSA, they think of it more like a subscription like Amazon might do, but that's not exactly. It's not exactly guaranteed. Like the quantity of A, B and C is not exact. You don't know that upfront in the CSA typically do you? Like you said, the variety may vary.
00:05:50
Speaker
what you're getting, because I guess you are working with seasonal fresh stuff and you're working with things like, I don't know, the environment and weather and stuff. Just the environment. And that's tough. And I find that most CSA farms, they grow like a lot of different things. So you may encounter stuff in your CSA share that week that you may not have encountered before. Because from my experience, CSA farms, they do grow lots and lots of great variety of things.
00:06:17
Speaker
And if one thing fails, they usually plan on that by having something to substitute in. So yeah, it, you know, you may get a surprise from week to week in certain cases. Yeah, that's a good example. Yeah, that's a common one. So it's not like with a CSA, you can exactly pre-order an exact set amount of certain things. Typically, that's not the case. Is it with the CSA?
Diverse Products and Benefits in CSAs
00:06:44
Speaker
It's that you're buying a kind of
00:06:47
Speaker
you're paying forward into that farm, a share into that farm. So it's just whatever they produce fresh and locally. Yeah, an investment. And it sounds like there's some benefits for, of course, consumers because you get a high quality locally grown product. But the benefit for the farm would be what? Real question.
00:07:08
Speaker
Shared risk. I'm surprised the economist didn't jump all over that. I would have said shared risk. And I like the way that you frame that ray of an investment, right? Is that the grower sells essentially a group of shares and takes that investment money to then grow the product. That is the most abstracted definition because it doesn't just have to be vegetables, right? Yeah, that's a great point. It can be animal products. It can be a lot of different things.
00:07:36
Speaker
eggs, meat, flowers. I mean, no, you know, CSA's that are flowers, I guess Alexis isn't there. So there's, it's just not for traditional fruits and veggies. Yeah, that's a great point, Josh, that it can be a lot of different things. And it must be nice. I know one of the motivations for this happening, this movement happening in the US, it seemed like, is that farmers, you know, it costs money to produce things. And a lot of times you're making an investment upfront that you're not going to get paid for upfront.
00:08:03
Speaker
So this helps farmers because they get a revenue stream while they're producing a crop. And that's an awesome benefit. So benefit to both consumers and farmers, it seems like. And that's one of the things that I like about this. And I know there's a certain amount of education involved in CSAs when you're working with people. Emily, you said there's two different ways community supported ag and I hadn't heard it as much, but you said community shared
00:08:28
Speaker
which I like that version, actually, because that's a good talking point to let people know, you know, exactly what they're, you know, buying into. So I really like the shared version of that. And I haven't heard that very often, community shared AG.
00:08:43
Speaker
because you're buying that shared but that's an interesting take on that so lots of benefits to consumers and the farmers i like it can everybody tell that ray has had a lot of caffeine today that was like a monologue of you know
00:08:58
Speaker
Like all great, all great. I'm not picking on you, but me and you just bowled
Evolving CSA Models for Modern Consumers
00:09:02
Speaker
through that. Yeah. As he drinks more coffee. Yes. This is not a good idea. I have not reached my peak yet, folks. I'm still climbing. I'm still climbing. Yeah. But CSAs have always fascinated me because of their benefits and all the complexities that can be, I mean, they can be as simple as you want them to be in essence, or they can be, um,
00:09:26
Speaker
you know, a bit more complex in the way that you kind of deliver the CSA. Well, I think, you know, one thing to note too, that a lot of the description so far describes, to me, describes CSAs. Many of them still exist in that way, but CSAs, as they particularly existed back maybe in the late 90s and 2000s, and back to the 80s in the United States,
00:09:53
Speaker
Community supported agriculture had, many of the farms had a non-negotiable, you have to come out and work on the farm component that is all but vanished in the modern landscape. And another component of it too that is, yeah, work share. And then another component of it that's changed
00:10:12
Speaker
and we can debate good or bad. Consumer economists say good is that the you take what you get model has faded into the background in terms of at least a lot of the farms that we work with here in the state. I'll say from my own personal experience as a CSA member for the last however many years
00:10:34
Speaker
there was a time back in the 20 probably 2010, when it was a take what you get. And my shares that I shares that we have this past these past couple of years there, it's fully customizable within the range of options that they have available. And so for instance, if I don't really like bell peppers, I can swap bell peppers for an extra pound of tomatoes within an online system. And so the
00:11:02
Speaker
it is I think and this is something maybe we can talk about as we bridge into CSA week and other other phenomena but and with with CSA shifting in that way I think to me it's a sign of adaptations by producers in order to capture a larger share of the market because the reality that we kind of know from the research that we've done is that
00:11:26
Speaker
died in the wool, CSA customers are a relatively small market segment. And they're for weirdos like me and it's very case, right? People who believe in the value sharing risk. But that in order to get access to people who are used to being able to go to the grocery store and pick from several options that has sprung up.
00:11:51
Speaker
And we've seen tremendous growth in CSAs in Kentucky over the last few years, interest in them, promotion of them, and there's some events coming up that Emily's going to talk about.
00:11:59
Speaker
a little bit later, but that was just a little wrinkle in the CSA picture that, and the other thing that's happened too, along with the change in week to week choosing is people offering more and more short term shares, so you can get a four week a week, whereas I'm used to 22, 26 week is the standard or whatever, different size shares, you can get an extra large if you like lots of vegetables, if you're just a single person who's trying to mix it up, you can get a small share and then things all around.
00:12:29
Speaker
It is, it has radically changed. I was kind of shocked the first time I was able to customize a share, but as a consumer, I must say I kind of liked it. Cause maybe a whole bunch of, maybe I'd love bell peppers and I want to make stuff peppers for a party. I can get more of those in my share. Um, so it is, it is kind of this blended model now. It strikes me as something that's more like, like to me, that is more of a subscription box than like.
00:12:55
Speaker
what the CSA system sprung up as originally. It's more like the Amazon model where it's like, I want a streaming service and I want to a la carte everything. It's more focused on the convenience of a subscription.
00:13:13
Speaker
And before we move on, one more shout out of obscure, not necessary things to say for me, which is sort of my main contribution here. I want to give a shout out to the cultural frames that supported this besides the U.S.
Historical and Cultural Roots of CSAs
00:13:25
Speaker
So it sprung up primarily in like the north, the northern part of the United States with some people coming out of like Scandinavian traditions and Scandinavian heritage and like a certain cultural appreciation for cooperation and share.
00:13:41
Speaker
shared governance or something like that. And then there's also this whole parallel system, I think it's called Takei, T-E-I-K-E-I in Japan. It is a very similar kind of ethos. And so we didn't invent this in America, but damn it, we like to say we did. We'll take credit for it if it's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting, Brett. You mentioned, you know, some of the innovations going on with CSAs and that's something I'm really interested in now.
00:14:09
Speaker
is any component of a CSA that provides choice. Why is that springing up? Is it just because the online tools are getting easier and better? I mean, I love the fact that this component of where you can go on, almost like Josh said, an online shopping experience, which is not what CSA started as, but I love that innovation that CSAs are moving towards. Love that.
00:14:37
Speaker
but I wonder just what's driving that other than it's awesome. Yeah, I mean, I don't have to talk on and on, but I think technology is a big part of the picture. And I think that expanding into other consumer markets and making CSA more palatable to more people because most growers are looking to grow their shares. The turnover rate can be as high as 50% or more in some cases. You get people who sign up for a year, realize it's not for them. So it means you're constantly needing to replace. And I think in that regard,
00:15:06
Speaker
you get out you you exhaust the the the true blue dyed in the wool as I said before uh CSA customers and so how do we get access to more people or or wean them on to the CSA model. Emily you have any other thoughts about about that? Yeah I'm I'm curious actually I have a question for you Brett as like a CSA customer like if every week is customizable like for you what's the benefit of signing up for a CSA
00:15:33
Speaker
instead of going to the farmer's market every week, you know, if it's essentially you're picking out your stuff every week. Yeah, well, there's a number of reasons. One is I do on some level view it as a practice of some kind of values. I like the idea of getting the money out of my hands early when seed costs and fertilizer costs and equipment repair costs happen during that early window. I'll come back to one major reason I've continued, but
00:16:02
Speaker
I think another another reason for me is it helps a little bit with choice paralysis because you're it's it's not like my basket is your basket come or your box whatever comes pre-populated with stuff and there's some weeks where I'm like yeah let's go for what they assigned and other weeks I just swap things out and so there is still a preformed share that you can adjust which is much more helpful and it pushes me to get things that I maybe wouldn't wouldn't proactively get at a farmer's market I think it encourages me to
00:16:32
Speaker
spend a little bit more money and get more so I think I'm getting a better value relative to the farmers market and I'm getting I'm putting my money where my mouth is to some extent locking in that.
00:16:47
Speaker
Those are two big reasons. I like the idea of it's a three minute stop to pick something up versus as much as I support farmer's markets and love the vibe. It's a big confession. I actually do not like going to farmer's markets. I don't like that. I cannot believe it. Another big shopping guy. Breaking news. Brett Wolf canceled from Hort Culture podcast.
00:17:13
Speaker
But the other reason is we have, at UK, we have this really nice voucher program, which will, our health and wellness people, shout out Vanessa Oliver, Jody Enzman, Tim Woods, who's been on the podcast recently, a whole crew of them and Brooke at Oak and others have worked to put this voucher program, Katie at Oak, now I'm thinking of all the people I didn't shout out, who have worked with the voucher program together where I get,
00:17:39
Speaker
So like last year, let's say my share cost $750. I actually get a $200 voucher from our HR department because in theory, if I'm eating vegetables, I'm going to cost them less on medical bills and other things as well off of that. And so my out of pocket then becomes $500 or $600 or whatever the balance is. And so that's another reason that has really confirmed my desire to keep going with it. So those are my main reasons.
00:18:08
Speaker
When I first started, I think it was because I thought I was cool. Well, in the health savings, if they knew you were picking it up on a motorcycle with no helmet, they probably wouldn't give you a discount.
00:18:22
Speaker
They don't know what they don't know, can't hurt them, you know? Yeah, that's awesome. I know in the fall, we interviewed some people that participate in the UK CSA voucher program. And something that they talked about that I hadn't really thought about was like, it's this like really cool, kind of like forced opportunity to be creative with your food, you know, that we just like don't like, you know, I go to the grocery store, I get the same like 20 things every time I go essentially.
00:18:48
Speaker
because I'm not forced to get out of my comfort zone at all. But when you have the CSA, it's a really cool opportunity to, I don't know, just get creative in the kitchen and maybe you find something you like that you've never tried, which I really like thinking about it that way.
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah there's a lot of logic to that because like cooking is like a pretty creative process right and it's kinda like the difference between like you looking at what paint you have versus going to the paint store and deciding what am I gonna paint right like with all the colors of the rainbow or I just have a handful of certain things so like where does that lead me.
00:19:24
Speaker
Just to clarify real quick for those people who are like, what are this UK voucher system? And maybe to encourage them if they have an employer who might be interested in this. So UK of course has
00:19:39
Speaker
a CSA from their research farm, but they also support other local farms that do, I think it's like 20 weeks is the minimum or 25 weeks is the minimum CSA. And so basically, University of Kentucky gives employees a voucher, it's a couple hundred dollars, right? Like it's been a, it's been a few years since I've been a part of it. But for employees sort of around the state now, they've grown it to be able to
00:20:06
Speaker
by a CSA from one of the approved farms that they are working with. And so it's really nice. And it's through kind of like our health insurance type situation. And I know that there is some other organizations, employers who are looking at that as part of their health and wellness. So where you get benefits. There are several others who have done it, not just UK, but
00:20:29
Speaker
just like, you know, just like they might give you a discount on a gym membership, right? Because in theory, it cuts down on, you know, you need to go to the doctor and things. Same concept, healthy food, you know, is good for you, makes you better, all that jazz. So that's just kind of an update on that. I almost had, I had a thought, and maybe it's too big of random thought to talk about today, but you know, we call CSA, we say,
00:20:53
Speaker
community shared agriculture or community supported agriculture. And it almost feels like those might be one or the other these days, like community shared maybe in my brain goes back to kind of the old older way where you get what you get and you're in it with that farmer, you know, for the long haul, you get, you know, and maybe you do some work on the farm as part of it versus community supported agriculture almost feels like a newer wave where there's more
00:21:24
Speaker
selection, variety selection, things like that. So I wonder how that will change. Like as technology, will we use one term more than the other? Or is that just too big of a silly idea that nobody actually will change, but they seem different to me, right? Like this and the way you use that S seems very different.
00:21:43
Speaker
Or will it transition fully into consumer supported agriculture? Or just, you know, back to the old model of no risk shared? Yeah, right. Yeah, it's definitely changed over time. If you're, if you're asking about the power of semantics, you've come to the right place. I figured I did. Semantics was the word I was looking for. Yeah. I think, I think for me at least,
00:22:09
Speaker
You know, community supported agriculture to me was the name that when I started into it. And so it has that historical cache, but the difference between shared and supported is kind of interesting and important to discuss. And there's a part of me or a part of the argument that would say to call any of this community supported agriculture
00:22:33
Speaker
is a betrayal of the original term in terms of being on farm and getting involved. There was a person at one of the CSA events that we had, so our group
00:22:47
Speaker
with that voucher program started this CSA member ambassador program, where people who were members basically try to strong arm other people that they know into joining CSA and using the vouchers and whatnot. And she was talking about being up in the Northeast involved in a CSA in the 90s and how it was a radically different experience. It was significantly more, and if this means anything to you, like in a punk rock kind of sense, like a DIY, full DIY culture where like,
00:23:16
Speaker
share members are showing up to the farm and unloading 50 pound bags of cabbage and they're like making arrangements for drop-offs. It's more like a traditional old school cooperative where it's like what Good Foods was a number of years ago. And other cooperatives are out in the Northwest and other places now where it's this much more intensively socially integrated thing as opposed to a mediated transaction at a different time of year.
00:23:43
Speaker
Again, that's not a criticism of this thing. I still participate in it. I think it's really good. It's a really good way of engaging.
00:23:50
Speaker
You know, the, to, to feel like you really have a share in something in a tangible way, having a little, what's the skin in the game or some other, some other, uh, metaphor is, is, is an important distinction and it's something that we want to want to discuss. I didn't even to be completely
Community Connection Through CSAs
00:24:10
Speaker
transparent. I didn't know that. I mean, I run a flower CSA, so it's a little different, but I've worked with a lot of CSAs and they've always been.
00:24:18
Speaker
you know, maybe they support a little bit, you know, they come out and there's like a community meal, but it's not even, it's more of a, the client is taking from the farm, giving all their money upfront. And I didn't think I ever even realized that that's kind of where it came from and has given me like a hundred ideas. It was very instant, like, because I think that people want to get connected. And when we saw that during the pandemic that,
00:24:44
Speaker
people want to have more of a connection to their food and maybe they don't have time and maybe it's just like not what it necessarily used to be. But I think that there's even like almost like a marketing opportunity there. I've just like a hundred things have just happened in my brain. Sure. The first CSA that I worked on, which this was like mid 2000s, 2007, something like that in North Georgia was relatively small.
00:25:13
Speaker
like it was like 35 to 40 shares something like that and it was a very much like you get what you get but it also had a requirement that two days out of the season which it did it did split the season into two different shares right there was like a like a spring greens and like a fruits of the or like you know summer the rest of the bigger chunk was the summer and when you signed up for a share you had to pick
00:25:42
Speaker
two days that you would come out on special days where members could come out and be expected to come out to partake or assist in the harvest since that's like the biggest you know labor sink or whatever. So working in that every
00:25:57
Speaker
one of the two harvest days a week is when you would see shareholders show up and help out. It was pretty tight knit. It was also very easy for distribution. It was like we had a cooler and we loaded Xboxes into it and they came and picked it up over the course of the day and that was that. This past year, I was a part of
00:26:16
Speaker
an herbal CSA, I think I've mentioned it before, but it's a collaboration between Among the Oaks and Sylvatica Forest Farm. It's like some teas, but also some herbal hydrosols and other kinds of herbal medicinal products. Super cool. But how they did it was like it was a quarterly CSA box and each quarter you had an event associated with the pickup.
00:26:45
Speaker
And a lot of times they would email us being like, you know, we have this event on Saturday. Don't forget also.
00:26:52
Speaker
you know, we're harvesting hibiscus and that's like extremely labor intensive. If you've never done it before, it's insane. You have to like handpick, I mean, thousands of tiny little buds, you know? And so if you want, like come out an hour early and just like hang out and chat and cut some hibiscus, you know, which was really cool. So it's kind of like a bridge between those two, you know, like they're providing the service we're taking, but also like, you know, providing the opportunity for people to help out, which was cool.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah, people seem to really enjoy it. I mean, you know, it's not like they had to be there every harvest day, they picked those two days. And it would tend to be days that had, you know, pretty killer weather. But they would be out there and being a part of it, right. And they always seemed very appreciative of that time, like it forced them to take a break from their daily kind of a lot of them were officer indoor workers, right. And they would get to spend like a nice like kind of chill morning on the farm or whatever. And they
00:27:48
Speaker
It seemed to add a lot of value. It was definitely more for them because we would have to be prepared to take people and be with them while they're harvesting and give them a little direction if they didn't know what was going on.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah, I like it gives it value. They're like, Oh, man, you do this every day. Like, it's not just you all playing, you know, in the field. Right, right. Yeah, they're not like, I could get a bigger tomato at the grocery store. Oh, right. Somebody had to go out and pick this. Yeah, gives give some connection to that. Well, despite my and Josh's lamenting the
00:28:24
Speaker
for the vital and radical roots of CSA and the transgressive cultural communities that grew around it.
Mainstreaming and Promotion of CSAs
00:28:32
Speaker
CSA has, for a lot of better and probably some worse, gone much more mainstream than it ever was in the past. And I think that the punk rock DIY vibe partially thrives on exclusivity and niche-ness. And so the idea of opening it up to more people has been really, really cool.
00:28:53
Speaker
And part of that I think has been some of these events and things that have shown this level of support from state and federal partners that was, I mean, it just frankly wasn't there before. It was too weird or it was too niche or whatever. Now seeing this, especially for small farm places like Kentucky with a lot of small farms, it's a really considerable portion of the income of some of the farms that we work with. And it's a model that works for them.
00:29:20
Speaker
There are a couple, Emily's been working with some of those partners to kind of rep this UKCCD side on some of these events that are coming up. Emily, there's a month and there's a week. That's about all I have on my notes here.
00:29:36
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, it's, you know, we've been talking about like all the crazy variety of innovations that has been going on with CSAs. So the CCD, the Center for Crowd Diversification that Brett, Josh and I work for is a part of this national CSA innovation network, where it's a group of like, I don't know, maybe 10 to 15 different farmers and technical assistance organizations, kind of working on these like,
00:30:05
Speaker
issues surrounding CSAs that are local issues, but shared across the whole nation. And just kind of thinking through, how do we reach more customers? How do we help farmers market their products better? All different kinds of things. And something that came out of the CSA Innovation Network was this national CSA week that
00:30:30
Speaker
happened. It's actually happening early and earlier every year, which is cool. So when it originally started out, I think it was like the end of March. And this year it's going from February 19th to the 25th. And
00:30:45
Speaker
I think it's getting earlier because people are willing to sign up earlier for CSA's even though they're not getting their products until later. People are excited and want to get their foot in the door and that kind of stuff. Really what these are like Brett was saying is this cool coordinated marketing effort. It's like hundreds of farms across the country coming together to spread the message of what CSA is, why CSA is great for small farms in particular. Also really good for
00:31:16
Speaker
people who are interested in consuming local food and that kind of stuff. So yeah, if you're a farmer out there interested in, you know, kind of like learning more about what CSA is and, or maybe you have a CSA and you're not really sure how to market it, these kinds of like big national and statewide campaigns can be like a really cool opportunity to, you know, just kind of hop on there and like use these resources that were developed by people who have been doing research in this field for, you know, decades now.
00:31:46
Speaker
So I can go into the National CSA Week a little bit more about what it means to participate in it. So you can just sign up if you're a CSA farmer. You can sign up. It's totally free. You just go to the CSA Innovation Network website. And as a part of it, you'll get added to their map so people can search by state, all CSAs that are participating in this. And then they can kind of find you, find your farm.
00:32:13
Speaker
And then also you'll get this really extensive media package that's completely customizable. You know, you can download to your computer, change out the photos, change out any text you want. But it just has these like coordinated messages about like, you know, the benefits of CSAs and
00:32:32
Speaker
Just kind of like some cool photo and caption ideas for you. Some promotional emails, you know, that you can send out to your own customers. Like we already have the template ready for you and that kind of stuff. Just kind of making it, you know, really easy for you to just put out an entire, you know, week or even multiple weeks worth of stuff on your site to get people interested in your CSA, which is cool. And just something to draw a line to other cultural artifacts. If you are familiar with the phrase got milk or
00:33:02
Speaker
Where's the beef? Or if you're familiar with Stephen Colbert's pistachio ads, if you're not, I'm sorry to bring that into your world, but that type of coordinated, and this pistachio ads, not really, but the other two backed by a different kind of federal funding and grower funding, but it has a real impact when you can get that kind of coordinated effort together. And so to see that at a national scale for CSA is like,
00:33:30
Speaker
remarkable and really applaudable or whatever. It's a really cool coordinated effort by a relatively small group of talented, dedicated people. Yeah, huge, huge shout out to that because I think that is awesome. I know we've participated and supported and a couple of years ago, a team of folks went up on some SARE funding to visit with the
00:33:54
Speaker
the Fair Share Coalition and some other groups and some of the people involved in the CSA Innovation Network. It's just been really cool to see that growth and that also coming along of organizations and funding to support it has been really neat. Yeah. Kentucky has adapted this National CSA Week into our own CSA Week.
00:34:17
Speaker
which happens in March, and March 4th to the 8th this year. And it's this collaboration between the Kentucky Department of Agriculture, Oak, the Organic Association of Kentucky, the Food Connection here at UK, the Kentucky Horticulture Council, and the Center for Crop Diversification, us. And it's kind of similar in that we have a couple of different templates and stuff that we send out to participating farms, but really what it is,
00:34:42
Speaker
is using the media connections that all of these organizations have to promote the CSA farms that are participating. So they're all Kentucky proud CSA farms and they'll be shared out on all of our social media channels and stuff, which is reaching tens of thousands of people between all of those organizations. So it's a little bit different where it's like kind of these huge networks of organizations kind of taking the time to promote these
00:35:13
Speaker
farms that are participating and uh, but I mean, you know, it's been, it's been a really cool thing the past couple of years to see that grow too. Josh. Sorry. I was gonna say as a reminder, this is veggie, but it's also meats and flour and herbal. Like they've really opened it up to anybody who's doing a type of CSA. Yeah. Cool. Josh, is there, is my correct in saying there's a way to find some CSAs on a map somewhere or no?
00:35:42
Speaker
Well, Emily brought up that one. Um, but, uh, there used to be one that was a local harvest and it's still functional. I don't know how routinely it's updated. I think it's local harvest.org. That used to be what I used like a decade plus ago. Um, and I did the site still loads and has, uh, CSAs, but they, they, there might be some out of date listed there. If you look on you, then there's one on the KDA site. That's the one that you mentioned, right? Yeah. That's one Emily mentioned. Yeah. Sorry about that.
00:36:12
Speaker
That one i would assume is more like up to date the local harvest when it's kind of nationwide yeah This csa innovation network not gonna lie first time i've been on this website it looks really awesome so if you're looking if you're a farmer who's maybe thinking about csa but it feels really overwhelming
00:36:34
Speaker
This has some really cool short videos and interests about planning the details and how to manage customer expectations. So csainnovationnetwork.org. And there's a UK logo on there, so we can advertise it. Right? Rock on right there. But yeah, there's some really cool ones exploding through. Wildly brand becoming possible.
00:37:03
Speaker
That's our tagline is wildly possible, but it, you know, I riffed on it. I have a couple of other thoughts about people, maybe producers who might be interested.
Challenges and Strategies for New CSA Growers
00:37:12
Speaker
So one is we do have a publication that Tiffany Thompson, who was the manager of the UK CSA for a number of years wrote called CSA economic analysis. That's a publication available through the University of Kentucky. It's one of the best economic considerations of CSA. It goes through a lot of different, um,
00:37:33
Speaker
of the budget items. It's a couple years old now, so some of the input costs might be higher as we've covered in past episodes, but it is a really good – if you just Google CSA economic analysis, UKY, it should come up as a first result. Another thing, and I'll maybe get your all's thoughts on this. If someone's starting out in growing stuff, if we have a hort biz quiz
00:37:57
Speaker
whatever, respondent who is filling this out. CSA is not where I would start in growing vegetables. Ew. And there's a number of reasons why. I'm seeing the horror on all of your faces. Why would you say, what would be some of the reasons why CSA is better left to the more seasoned grower?
00:38:19
Speaker
you gotta deliver. Even though they're in it with you and if you have a failure of a crop, you still gotta deliver something and you can't keep delivering yellow squash every week. As the only thing, if your tomatoes die,
00:38:37
Speaker
You know, unless you're doing the only exception I would say is like a winner or a fall CSA, but those people are usually really upfront. I did a winner CSA this year, which was awesome, but they were upfront. Like, and you know, in the winter you're going to get greens. So you can expect salad mix every single week. You know, you're not getting tomatoes. You're getting those root crops and things like that.
00:39:02
Speaker
that aside, you got to deliver and you got to deliver a variety of things. And so I would say if you're a relatively new grower, maybe join up with someone else. So one thing we haven't mentioned, but is something that I think is starting to become a little more popular is kind of this idea of a multi farmer CSA. So I've worked with one here as at my extension office, but you know, I've had people who have high tunnels, so they're really good and they're really good at growing, you know,
00:39:30
Speaker
tomatoes and some of those specialty high tunnel crops that just do really well there. And then other people who are growing outdoors or maybe they do mushrooms or flowers or whatever that is. And so they've joined up with these people and they say, Farmer A, you're going to bring all the tomatoes and all the cucumbers and Farmer B is going to bring the watermelon and the potatoes or something like that.
00:39:53
Speaker
And so that can be kind of a good way to get started as well. If your attention to detail is there, but you got to deliver and you got to deliver a good product or else they're not going to come back and they're going to tell all their friends not to sign up. So yeah, it's, you definitely want to know what you are doing before you get into it. And my advice for somebody, you know, who feels confident in their ability would be to start small.
00:40:18
Speaker
you know, start with like a very tiny group of people who are committed to this idea. Start with your mom's friends. Exactly. Like people you know immediately like short term and make it just kind of like a little side project, aim small, kind of miss small or really targeted, you know, like definitely if you're growing vegetables, the diversity is a big key. But if it's say some like an egg share or something like that, you could get away with being pretty like narrowly defined.
00:40:46
Speaker
Yeah, my sister and I are starting a farm business this year. And, you know, we've been growing like for ourselves and for family members for years. But kind of our goal this year is just extremely small. You know, essentially, we just want to start out
00:41:03
Speaker
with a goal maybe like in three years doing like a full blown CSA, but this year kind of doing like month long trials, you know, just like five people maybe so we can kind of get like the flow and the cadence down and like understanding like, what does it even mean to like, get all this together every week, you know, and like, make sure our planting schedules are good and that kind of stuff and, you know, just like really taking a lot of notes on those kinds of trials and see how they go.
00:41:30
Speaker
I've known a handful of people that have, you know, they transitioned from being a market grower to like a five or six share CSA and it, you know, went really well for them and they weren't like wildly stressed out, right?
00:41:44
Speaker
That's the goal. Yeah. And the same is true veggies versus, you know, flowers. I know a lot of flower farmers who do once a month type of things where, you know, they really only have to rally for that one week. Right. You know, maybe they expand their reach and they deliver to other places because they're only driving there once a month. So they don't have, you know, to be on a crazy route every single week.
00:42:06
Speaker
But also, you know, sometimes there are things that are super fast. Like we know that lettuce mix in the spring, you know, can bolt really quickly or broccoli or whatever. So you may only do that, like Emily said, that one month or six weeks CSA of peonies or something that are really fast turnaround and you just have your peony CSA or your
00:42:28
Speaker
cruciferous CSA or whatever. And that's okay. It's all about marketing. You don't have to pull out that 20, 26 week CSA from the get go. And a lot of people find that a little bit more, they're new to CSA, a little bit more tangible for them as well. Cause they're like, it's not 26 weeks of me having to make sure I'm there picking stuff up. They can kind of dabble and you can charge a little bit more per week in my opinion. But that's a whole nother story.
00:42:54
Speaker
Yeah. And they, you know, last year I got a, um, it was one of those month, you know, once a month flower CSAs, I got it as like a birthday gift for my sis for my sister, you know, and it was like six months icing, I think. And yeah, so it was like a totally different like marketing tactic, uh, but really cool. Usain Bolt would be a terrible lettuce variety name.
00:43:18
Speaker
Yes. So fast. That transition to a follow up question that I have for you all to pick your brains. So we said it's not necessarily for every producer. I, you know, again, I'm just working to get myself canceled by saying I don't particularly love going to farmers markets as
Consumer Readiness and Engagement with CSAs
00:43:33
Speaker
a shopper. But I'll also say, I don't think that CSA is right for all consumers necessarily, for all customers, for all community members. I think for a number of reasons, there are ways that
00:43:47
Speaker
And that's why we have other markets and other ways of accessing things, is because not everybody wants to get it the exact same way. What would you all say, or some of the, I'll put it in a different way besides the things that we've disqualified. What do you, for you all, some of the learning curves associated with being a CSA member?
00:44:07
Speaker
if for someone who's maybe not fully on board with, yes, let's figure out a way to cook fresh vegetables every night for dinner. Any thoughts about that? Picky eaters. Anybody in your family who's a picky eater, whether it's you or you've got kids who won't eat something, not only do you have to figure out how to cook kohlrabi, which I can give you some great recipes, hit me up, but you got to have them eat it. And if people aren't eating what you're putting in front of them, that can be really irritating.
00:44:37
Speaker
Well, just learning how to deal with fresh stuff. I mean, that's not always a given. I mean, there's lettuce that dies on my CRISPR drawer every single week, and it's sad. It's my emotional support lettuce, Alexis. You know, I pull it out and it's around. Just learning how to deal with that stuff and how to deal with it in a timely fashion so that you minimize waste on the consumer end.
00:44:58
Speaker
That's a big thing that our family and consumer sciences agent on a county level is always working with people. And she helps me out some, but it's amazing how many people get involved in a CSA. And they, in some cases, even brought the stuff at the office because they said, we don't know how to deal with this stuff. So yeah, I guess we can't take that advantage, you know, for granted that everyone is equipped to deal with regular supply, fresh stuff that they have to break down and do something with. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say that's like probably the big,
00:45:26
Speaker
litmus test is like, do you like trying to figure out what to do with produce if it's a produce CSA? And are you comfortable working with things that you haven't worked with before in the kitchen? And do you have people in your household that will eat your mistakes?
00:45:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, or willing to, yeah, cover up for your mistakes. And I think that's where I really kind of miss the community portion of community supported Ag. That was one of the things back in the late 90s, I'm telling on my age a little bit and how long I've been an extension, but mid to late 90s,
00:46:00
Speaker
It seems like there was a lot more activities, maybe there still are in certain operations, but there was a lot of effort that went into not only on farm like dinners and community events to cultivate community, but there was also classes on recipes on how to cook every single thing that they may be getting in their CSA share. There was a lot more of that going on when the community was a bigger component of community supported agriculture. So I kind of missed that component.
00:46:26
Speaker
Sure. That's something that's nice about, I mean, when you get that group of people who are then having to work with kind of the same or similar vegetables throughout the year and you have those like potluck events where people gather, there's a lot of animated exchange and, you know, community teaching of each other of like, this is what we did with that. And it was awesome recipe sharing and all that. Yeah. And if, if you happen to be a CSA farmer out there that's feeling stressed out about finding customers, you know, to buy your CSAs now,
00:46:57
Speaker
There are several organizations like, you know, I know the NEP program at UK and also Oak put out some really awesome free recipe cards for farmers that you can just go pick up from them and put in your CSA shares. You know, it's like, let's say, you know that you're going to have cucumbers or whatever, kohlrabi or something. They have recipe cards, you know, for like really awesome, delicious things that
00:47:21
Speaker
You know, you can just kind of throw in your bag, kind of helpful. Yeah. We'll put that in the show notes, a link to where you can find all those because there are tons of them and they are, they have like nutritional information on them as well as like a recipe. So we'll put that in the show notes, but if you want the action.
00:47:38
Speaker
You know, if you're the kind of CSA, a lot of them send weekly emails. Hey, if this is what's in your box, you can put a link to that. Or if you want physical ones, your extension office, every extension office, man, listen, my storage room is full, full of recipe cards. And I promise you.
00:47:56
Speaker
Your local extension office would love nothing more for you to show up and be like, can I have 20 of a cucumber recipe, 20 recipe cards? They will hand you a whole box, be prepared. But please go help them out and sharing that. But we'll put a link to that in the show notes. That's such a great point, Emily. Thank you.
00:48:13
Speaker
There was kind of to that in like that CSA that I worked at in North Georgia, they were also associated with like a farm to table place. And that was the other distribution site was in town, you know, they had some storage space in the walk-in or whatever. And one of the things they would do because they were so closely linked is they would have a dish that they would then provide the recipe for out of the stuff that would come in the box on a given week. And it was like marketing genius, right? Yeah, that's awesome.
00:48:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think that for a lot of producers, CSA is one part of their marketing mix.
CSAs in Diverse Marketing Strategies
00:48:51
Speaker
And in many cases, you'll hear that they'll prioritize CSA first. So the CSA folks get the highest quality, if there's a shortage, they get it first, etc. But there are a lot of folks who kind of market in multiple different locations because they want to reach different customer bases. And another part of that
00:49:06
Speaker
earlier, the discussion of like starting small, is that if you start in other market channels, it gives you a chance to build your brand a little bit. So when you go to try to recruit people into your CSA that you have some it's that you're not saying, I've never done this before, but please give me your money upfront to do this. It can be a helpful part of that. Yeah, and I think CSA is for a lot more people than maybe realize it. And especially with a lot of the adaptations that have been made,
00:49:32
Speaker
But I do think at any given point, we're going to have a lot of folks who prefer to get their vegetables one way or prefer to get their food one way. And the ways that the promotion of this to larger audiences and the adaptability of the producers has been really positive, I think, for expanding access and expanding visibility of a really cool market channel. So is Kentucky Proud weak or is it month?
00:50:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's Kentucky Proud Week. I think it used to be a month-long promotional thing, and now it's just condensed into one week. Cool. Yeah, and it's March 4th through 8th. So if you're a CSA farm, the date to sign up will have already passed by the time this episode airs.
00:50:22
Speaker
still worth getting on to. There's a CSA in Kentucky Facebook page that anyone can be a part of, and it's a really good way to get inspiration for ways to market your CSA and see what other farms in the state are doing with theirs.
00:50:39
Speaker
Yeah. And that one, yeah. And beginning of March. And if you're in Kentucky and you are farming anything, sign up to be Kentucky proud. It's cheap or it's not. And by cheap, I mean, it's free and it's easy. It's really easy to sign up. I mean, you can get signed up and, you know, it takes 15 minutes to fill, fill out. Uh, and every year you just, once you fill it out once every year, they go, everything's still good. And you go, yeah, or you add in your changes.
00:51:07
Speaker
It's really easy and it allows you to have access to a lot of like grant funding and things along those lines. So I always tell people there's no reason not to be Kentucky proud and they do help market you. So it's, you know, kind of a free, free marketing. There's just a lot of things involved, whether you're doing CSA or they even have a Kentucky proud wedding vendors section. So they've really opened it up to a lot of different style of farms and agro tourism.
00:51:36
Speaker
and things along those lines. So a big shout out and we're really proud of Kentucky Proud. Can you rent like a tux with like Kentucky Proud logos all over it? You can probably get a pop grant for that. I bet Josh would allow some promotional funding for that.
00:51:58
Speaker
Makes perfect sense. If he's listening, he just cringed, so. Awesome. Well, yeah, I think that's awesome. We'll kind of close
Recap and Participation Encouragement
00:52:08
Speaker
this out. But Emily, I know you've said a couple of the dates a couple times, but just to round out the episode, remind us of kind of those CSA dates. Yeah. So the National CSA Week, the one that you get the huge array of different media
00:52:23
Speaker
coming in like a media package to you is from February 19th to 25th. And there's no deadline to sign up for that one. So if you're a CSA farmer, um, you can sign up today and get the package immediately in your inbox, which is really cool. And then for the Kentucky proud CSA week, that one is March 4th through the eighth. Awesome. Awesome. Any last words from bald boys in our Ray about CSAs? It's good stuff.
00:52:54
Speaker
I really appreciate you coming and sharing stuff with us and being so involved with the, it's good to have a CCD team person involved with that important promotional work. And yeah, just once again, so glad to have you on the pod.
00:53:10
Speaker
We love you, Emily. We appreciate it. Thank you. We'll see you guys. Happy to be here. Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today. Remember, you can always shoot us an email at hortculturepodcast at l.uky.edu. You can also follow us on Instagram and shoot us a DM if you have any ideas or thoughts or you're just wanting to send some well wishes and you want to tell us how awesome Emily is and that you want her back on all the time. You could totally do that.
00:53:37
Speaker
Hort Culture podcast is our handle there. We'd also love it if you left us a review, if you are enjoying your time, it helps other people find us. So it just is really sharing the love there. So we appreciate you being here today and we hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us and join us next week. Have a good one.