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Episode 6: Called to...Think Like a Business Owner
19 Plays2 months ago
Mental health practitioners are not trained to think like business owners and business principles have a messy relationship with capitalism. Collective care is complicated and mental health practitioners don’t often include their care in the equation – from telehealth vs. brick and mortar office to cutting overloaded caseloads, we cover a lot.
Yes, we know there were a lot of microphone troubles this episode. If you want us to not be amateur editors, please support the pod financially!
Reminder: As usual, this episode is not meant for tiny ears.
Reminder 2: We recorded our first few episodes in batches, so our time context may not align with release dates.
Mentions: Dyette’s coaching for private practice clinicians. You can find her @theantiableistdoc on IG or on LinkedIn.
Our Instagram is @calledtohealing. We are on Spotify, and you can find us on YouTube for our video episodes and we are now on Apple Podcasts!!
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Music: Calypsonian by Eshi Era (Standard License) Check out their Artist Profile here: Eshi Era
Until next time. REST easy.
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Transcript
Intro
00:00:17
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
okay
Introduction and Background
00:00:19
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Hello. Hi, Blanca. How are you?
00:00:22
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Hi, Ksera I'm hanging in there. How are you?
00:00:25
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I am alive, which is something to be said these days. Welcome, everyone, Called to Healing. Ksera Dyette a licensed clinical psychologist in Massachusetts.
Transitioning to Business Mindset
00:00:41
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And I'm Blanca and I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist in Nevada.
00:00:54
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
who have stewarded this land for generations. If you are joining us for what is our sixth episode...
00:01:03
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Uh-uh.
00:01:03
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah. Last episode, we spent time talking about that thing called self-care. Go check it out. We have many feelings about it. And this episode, we are talking about how to think like a business person.
00:01:18
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And this was not a planned topic. This happened as a result of a text conversation that Blanca and I were having. So Blanca, can you talk about what was going on? Yeah.
00:01:29
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah. So, okay. So a little bit of history is um I opened my private practice in February 2021 with um with a ton of help from Ksera in terms of the paperwork I needed realizing it was possible to do to begin with. um And a lot of, of course, love and encouragement.
00:01:52
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Dystopian
00:01:55
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And so, Ksera is frequently the person i turn to when I have concerns or questions or thoughts or just vents about being a business owner. and And as the political context in the United States continues its what do we want to call it?
00:02:17
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Whatever the fuck.
00:02:19
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
dystopium
00:02:20
Blanca Torres, LMFT
ah Dystopian nightmare, steep decline into authoritarianism whatever the fuck. Again, really. I've been thinking more and more about ah leaving.
00:02:33
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And that includes shifting my practice to telehealth. However, that's not happening anytime soon.
Contemplating Telehealth Shift
00:02:39
Blanca Torres, LMFT
But just having that thought alone made me really look at like my days And the whether my clients are online and telehealth and and how much, you know, it's also tax season. So the amount of money I spent on rent last year and really starting to wonder, could these funds be used better? And by used better, I mean, could they be in my bucket?
00:03:06
Blanca Torres, LMFT
um ah So yeah. um So with all that, I... i I started this, I don't have as many mixed feelings as I do now. But when I first started thinking about it, I did have a lot of really mixed feelings about it.
00:03:23
Blanca Torres, LMFT
um And so as we were talking about those feelings, it occurred to Ksera I that it might be a beneficial podcast episode, because I'm sure I'm not the only one.
00:03:34
Blanca Torres, LMFT
we know actually, I'm not the only one. that has mixed feelings on these kinds of things so that's kind of what brought us um to this topic
00:03:45
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah, can you talk about the mixed feelings you were having...
00:03:50
Blanca Torres, LMFT
yeah ah so i think you know i i think as mental health practitioners and from my perspective as a therapist there's almost like an indoctrination um that happens.
00:04:05
Blanca Torres, LMFT
First, I don't know if this part, I'm sure this is part of the indoctrination, but there's the dream of like, where will my office be located? And what a color am I going to paint it? And what kind of couch? And and I'm going to have fidget toys for this. And I'm going to have this for that. And I'm going have water and going to have coffee. And I'm just to have this little haven.
00:04:23
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And like the fantasy of being when you're in school of what your therapy office is going to look like. Um, so that was part of the mixed feelings of this, this like, almost preemptive grief of the loss of finally having the office.
00:04:43
Blanca Torres, LMFT
that I wanted to have so badly as a student. I finally got a window this year. My office up until the last, the last few years, up until October of last year, have been without windows. So I had to become a little bit of a lighting expert. I finally have a window. I and finally have plants
00:05:03
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And so there's like a little bit of grief in letting that go. The other part of other part of it that is mixed too is this fear that I'm going to lose clients over this, which I might, right? um I might.
00:05:20
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And then so there's feelings ah of kind of grief wrapped around that, anxiety wrapped around that. if How many clients can I stand to lose that will...
00:05:32
Blanca Torres, LMFT
the the benefit of not having rent, will it make up for that?
Therapist Experiences and Challenges
00:05:36
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Then there's the other part that this might be wrapped up a little bit in the trauma of becoming a therapist.
00:05:44
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Excuse me, let me rephrase that. This might be wrapped up in how becoming a therapist is a trauma response. um Because I just think about the clients that I know love coming in person.
00:05:58
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And that I think would be totally fine switching to online. But, but my pi people, please, are part is very much like, but no, Fulana, that's not a real name. ah That's ja Jane Doe in Spanish, Fulanita.
00:06:14
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Fulana loves coming to the office. So how can I take that from her? And that's wrapped up in there as well. So I think those are the mixed feelings.
00:06:24
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah, and it's so interesting because as I'm hearing you talk about it, I'm like, oh, yeah, I definitely had that fantasy, right? And that my business name, Cup of Tea Counselling my original business name, it's now coaching and consulting.
00:06:41
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
It was formed not only around my love of tea and the metaphor um that it symbolized for me when it comes to conflict and the British and all that anyway, ah but also the vision that I had that I would share tea with my clients.
00:06:55
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:07:03
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And there was the other layer of that being like, you know, like spilling the tea, like, you know, we would in the Black community.
00:07:08
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yes.
00:07:10
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I had, I shopped around for teacups and each client of mine got their own teacup. It would be the same cup that I'd put out for them every session. They could have tea if they wanted to. Most of them did, even if they were coffee drinkers.
00:07:30
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I'd be sipping my tea and we'd share this together. And it would be like, yes, it's therapy, but it'd also be like a chat. you know And there was a certain feel and aesthetic I was going for.
00:07:42
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
and I actually had a home office which to start, which was a really um vulnerable endeavor. um But because I started my practice with very little capital,
00:07:56
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um which is not the only way, like, but it was just at the time what worked for me to do it.
00:07:57
Blanca Torres, LMFT
No.
00:08:03
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um It was, that's how I started. So yeah, there's definitely like an indoctrination
00:08:11
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
as you called it. I think that's a good way to put it. And of course, telehealth wasn't really ah part of the vision when we went to school either.
00:08:22
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
So yeah,
00:08:23
Blanca Torres, LMFT
no
00:08:24
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
this was the only way to do it as far as where we were concerned. um Yeah. And so, yeah.
00:08:31
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:08:33
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah But there was something else you said too, because like when you were wrestling with the things that you mentioned,
00:08:44
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I think I had said to you, like, I think this decision is already like a no brainer, right?
00:08:49
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:09:01
Blanca Torres, LMFT
To how much money can I pull up the texts?
00:09:04
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Well, you can, but like you were sort of doing the most even after you agreed
00:09:06
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I can't remember.
00:09:13
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Oh, I see. yeah
00:09:16
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah yeah yeah
00:09:16
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I, I still felt like I needed like data to back up the choice. Like, like I needed to see the hard numbers, even though without looking at the hard numbers, it really like, again, where I'm at now it really seems like a no brainer. But like, I still feel like I need to justify it in my head for sure, that this is the right thing to do.
00:09:42
Blanca Torres, LMFT
But I wanted to go back just a little bit just to add to the indoctrination piece.
00:09:48
Blanca Torres, LMFT
The irony of this indoctrination is that my first client ever as a student was in May 2020, which you all might remember contextually what was going around May 2020.
00:10:02
Blanca Torres, LMFT
So I actually did not see a client in person until almost a year into my practicum experience. So I started as a telehealth practice therapist. My...
00:10:16
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I got thrown in into the deep end with telehealth. And that's how I started. And so it is a little bit ironic that I'm having these, these um mixed feelings considering where I came from. But anyway, to go back to what you were saying, I still feel the need to have all the data to back up the decision, which a decision which in my heart I know is what I want to do and what is next for my business period, whether I move out of the country this year or next year.
00:10:49
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And what, where is the need for data coming from?
00:10:59
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yt soupremacy and capitalism? um
00:11:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah I mean, ah specifically.
00:11:03
Blanca Torres, LMFT
If we're speaking broadly, if we're speaking more specifically, i think that I think that making decisions, ah I have this internalized belief that I need to justify with hard data and hard numbers, a choice that I know to be best for me financially, and best for me personally, um even for my own health, right?
Telehealth: Benefits and Limitations
00:11:33
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And i think about if I were telehealth, I could stack my clients in a different way and go to any Pilates class that I want during the week.
00:11:42
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right? And so it's like, in order to do the thing that is best for me holistically, I need to have numbers to back it up.
00:11:52
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I am, though, wondering about the indoctrination part and what role it plays in that.
00:11:59
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah, feeling well, there some people even you know, the other day I was I'm not on social media, which means I sometimes idly scroll LinkedIn, which is deeply embarrassing. And I can't believe I admit admitting it.
00:12:12
Blanca Torres, LMFT
um And i did see a ah so i I hid some stuff on LinkedIn, which means LinkedIn has no idea what I actually want to see. So I get a bunch of random suggested posts.
00:12:24
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And I got a random guy from some, a random one from some random yt guy. i don't remember what was said or who he is, but the context was something like,
00:12:37
Blanca Torres, LMFT
yeah like, Judging telehealth, I don't remember, but but i there is a judgment. There are some therapists or some people, some mental health practitioners who refuse to believe in the power of telehealth. Maybe a lot of them were Gen X and boomers, right, that aren't as comfortable with the technology. But what I see...
00:13:00
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And my my personal belief is I don't actually believe one is better than the other. I just genuinely think it's about what's best for the client. And I have clients who were maybe driving to my office sitting for an hour and driving home takes up way too much time of their day.
00:13:18
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Or I don't, there's only so many hours after five o'clock that I can actually practice, right? And so that means if you work a nine to five or a non-traditional schedule, it's not going to line up, but you can fit an hour in your day that of telehealth that works. Or maybe, you know, you have a disability and getting to the office is just not...
00:13:40
Blanca Torres, LMFT
not going to happen like i have a client with chronic pain her getting to an office is out of the question we only do telehealth um so i think a lot of the indoctrination is just from the gatekeepers of our field who seem to think that the old school way is the best way and that that is in person and it's simply not true
00:14:03
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah, and I think that there are parts of that that's true and parts of it that are not, right? Which is that, like, there is something to be said for training in person with folks.
00:14:18
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Oh, 100%, yeah?
00:14:18
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
There are things that you learn to see and pick up on Like, I'm very much a um I'm watching bodies um person.
00:14:28
Blanca Torres, LMFT
oh a hundred percent yeah
00:14:31
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
and
00:14:33
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I wonder sometimes if I'm good at that even on telehealth because of what I've had to do And like, even though there's like psychological testing, some psychological testing can be done through telehealth. Some of it can't be right. And um so there are pros and cons depending on what you're doing.
00:14:57
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
To being in person or being via telehealth.
Financial Struggles and Therapist Burnout
00:15:01
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Like I still like sublet and like, a not like when I need an office space for when I have to do testing.
00:15:08
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
ah
00:15:09
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And yeah, so I think, i think it's a little bit nuanced. Yeah. also, there is definitely a sense of, like, this is better and it can't be done any any differently.
00:15:23
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And even when the research is showing that that's not true, people still ignore that data.
00:15:30
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And what you were saying about accessing a physical office space made me think about how with my chronic illness, sometimes going into the office to see my therapist is like a very nerve wracking endeavor because you never knew who was there before.
00:15:50
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
You don't know what precautions they're taking.
00:15:51
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:15:52
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
They could have gotten my therapist sick and he might not have even known yet. And There were times when that did happen.
00:16:06
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
and even though I really did like seeing him in person I asked to go back to video after COVID? um Because I was just like, the risks are too great for me.
00:16:13
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:16:14
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
come see you in the office.
00:16:28
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And so telehealth certainly counters ableism in a lot of ways
00:16:29
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:16:34
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um And there are some ways where it doesn't. And i think everything has nuances, the bottom line.
00:16:38
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:16:41
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um
00:16:41
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Agreed.
00:16:41
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Agreed.
00:16:41
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
But I don't want to lose the thread of why we are having this conversation which is that
00:16:55
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
what I was saying to you when we were texting, I was like I'm coaching you I was really wondering what was going on inside your head about seeing the number but it was not enough information
00:17:07
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah I thought about the line, which really what you're talking about too with the indoctrination is like, we are never taught
00:17:18
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
to think like business people. That is not what we got to school for.
00:17:21
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Mm-hmm.
00:17:23
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
That's not what we got in the business for, right?
00:17:26
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yep. Mm-hmm.
00:17:26
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
But then when we end up with our own practices for various reasons.
00:17:31
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And if you're new to the show, um for me, it was after getting fired from a group practice and feeling like I never wanted anyone to have that much control over my life ever again And, you know, I had kind of pressed on you to start your practice as well, because I thought it would be more financially lucrative for you to have your own business and that it could flex to your schedule.
00:17:57
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah. And i think that like over the years, because I've been now a ah business owner for six years, as of February 2025, you learn that there are some decisions that are not only best for your business, but also best for you.
00:18:17
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:18:19
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
we have been taught to sacrifice everything in the service of clients to the point that
00:18:27
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
People who ah like our lay folks who might be consumers of mental health get mad at therapists on social media who talk about why they don't take insurance or who talk about why their rates are what they are and they call them selfish and you know all of these different things, not realizing that we get totally robbed
00:18:56
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
when we take insurance. And that the fight to get a better rate is exactly that.
00:18:58
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:19:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
It's a fight. And they don't make it easy to find out who you need to reach out to. They don't make it easy to negotiate, even when you have specialty skills. And a lot of therapists go years and years not petitioning for a rate increase because they don't even know that they can.
00:19:17
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And then like having to balance the aspects of your business, like hunting down denied claims, which you don't get paid for. When the insurance company doesn't pay you your money, they don't pay you to find out why you didn't get paid.
00:19:34
Blanca Torres, LMFT
right And we can't ask the client like, Hey, I did ah this many hours of admin work. So here's a bill for me having to hunt down here and try that would be ridiculous.
00:19:41
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
right.
00:19:45
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:19:45
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
ah Right, exactly. Because, you know, when you're using insurance, those are not services that people pay for. So, you know, when when folks get mad, I'm like, you guys have no idea.
00:19:57
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah You have no idea.
00:19:58
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yep.
00:19:58
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
and Legally, we're not allowed to talk about the rates that we receive if we're signed with a panel, right?
00:20:05
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:20:05
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And so I always use an arbitrary number for this where I'm like, okay, like if my rate is $300 an hour order for me to make a living without dying in the process, the insurance company may give me like 110.
00:20:17
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Mm-hmm.
00:20:24
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Making up some numbers there. But like, Think about that. You set a certain rate because you know you needed to make a living without seeing 40 people a week, which is insane.
00:20:36
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
My therapist was doing that.
00:20:39
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Wow.
00:20:40
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah. Like he'd be seeing like 10 people in a day. And when I tell you...
00:20:46
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I can't do that. Yeah.
00:20:48
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah, like our job is actually quite physically demanding as well as psychologically demanding. And people don't believe that because we're just, quote, sitting there. I'm like, no, no, you have no freaking idea how exhausting that is.
00:21:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And so when I say something like, Blanca, it's a no-brainer.
Physical Office vs. Telehealth Freedom
00:21:10
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
It's coming from that place of being like, it's not worth it.
00:21:14
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Because you wouldn't be here as a therapist if You'd be like, I'm done. Like the people who burnt out and quit and closed their businesses because you didn't make business decisions.
00:21:27
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right. Yeah. Yeah. you know, another, while you were talking another part of it too, that makes it, I think a little bit hard. And and I'm not saying this is a big, it's not a big part of it, but it's a small part of it.
00:21:39
Blanca Torres, LMFT
It's just kind of, it's a measure of success in some ways like because of the indoctrination. Right. And so the other part of it too, is like, I think, you know, I'm i'm a first generation business. I'm a first generation Mexican American.
00:21:54
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I'm first generation business owner. um And it is kind of, i know it's cool for my parents to say, oh yeah, esta oficina aquí es la de Blanquita. This is Blanquita's office, right? Like they it's a measure of success.
00:22:13
Blanca Torres, LMFT
to have an office that you built yourself that people can come to. It's kind of like how excited my parents were that I own own my home. i I don't own it, I'm still paying it, but you know what I mean? Like it's her house, it's her office, it's her, there's a measure of pride and success there that I think I had, it's a little, a teeny little hurdle I had to jump over that closing my office doesn't mean I'm not successful.
00:22:43
Blanca Torres, LMFT
It just means it's time.
00:22:43
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah and that measure of success is
00:22:52
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
a part of the quote American dream, right, which I have been telling people forever has always been a setup.
00:22:55
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yes.
00:23:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
and like, as I realized, like, and and and it ties you down, right? Like it ties you down because you're considering this not only because it might be financially viable, but it allows you to move in a freer way to take care of yourself and your life, which then allows you to be able to continue to show up for the people that you serve.
00:23:10
Blanca Torres, LMFT
It does.
00:23:27
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yes, because I am a Sagittarius sun and rising. And it's in my chart and a bunch of other places. And my butt has been still since COVID started.
00:23:39
Blanca Torres, LMFT
um And that just doesn't fill my little Sagittarius heart. I got to be traveling. I got to be moving. I got to be doing things. Can't do that with a brick and mortar office.
00:23:48
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah. I mean, you could, but you'd have to like, you know, be, yeah.
00:23:53
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Then I'm paying rent um for time. I'm not in an office. So yeah.
00:23:56
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
No, absolutely. I'm just saying, right.
00:23:58
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:23:59
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Cause like people do it. And I don't want to give the message that we're saying that this is the only way to be free.
00:24:09
Blanca Torres, LMFT
No.
00:24:10
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um It's just that for what you want,
00:24:15
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:24:17
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
this is the way, right?
00:24:18
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah, when I was in Jamaica, i I was on an excursion and I saw I met two other therapists on my small group excursion, two other therapists.
00:24:29
Blanca Torres, LMFT
One of them was a woman about my age, also a woman of color. And she was like, Yeah, girl, I just spent a month in some other tropical area. Now she's spending two weeks in Jamaica.
00:24:42
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And she sees clients from her all inclusive hotel room. during the morning and then goes off and spends her time like living and exploring and all these different areas. And I'm just like, what?
00:24:57
Blanca Torres, LMFT
My own therapist does the same thing. i don't know what her setup is, because obviously that wouldn't be appropriate. But after the onset of COVID, she never went back to in person. And she has shared that she's just moving about the world.
00:25:10
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I mean, Jesus Christ, like the thought of that, um, it, but frankly, it fills me with joy. Like my body immediately responds to it. I feel like I can take a deeper breath.
00:25:24
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I feel like excited. i feel happiness, joy, all the things just at the thought of like, I could, I could go spend a week in Jamaica, see clients two or three of those days and then just vibe.
00:25:37
Blanca Torres, LMFT
That sounds amazing.
00:25:38
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah yeah and i think like you know sitting in a windowless room all day because listen uh when i was at the group practice i didn't have a window in my office it's a really miserable thing like you literally see like eight people and you never see the sunset like
00:25:57
Blanca Torres, LMFT
It really is.
00:26:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
it's It's not. it's like It's almost as if you're you're like, and well, it's not the same thing. but
00:26:09
Blanca Torres, LMFT
No.
00:26:10
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I don't even want to say it. But it it does feel like a trap. you know like and and i don't want to like I'm not saying that it's miserable to see people. right It's just miserable to never see the light of day.
00:26:23
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:23
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
All day, every day Just to make ends meet.
00:26:28
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:26:29
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
that's That's really what we're talking about, right?
00:26:33
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And so what or like what have been some of like the biggest shifts that you've had to make in your mind between the clinical role and your business owner role?
00:26:44
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And what what maybe do you feel like you're still learning?
00:26:51
Blanca Torres, LMFT
The biggest shifts in my head in order to think, say that one more time.
00:26:55
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah, in order to think in business owner role rather than clinical role, what has had to happen or what do you feel like you're still working through?
00:27:04
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I have to really manage that people pleasing part.
00:27:11
Blanca Torres, LMFT
um The part that wants to say, but no, so-and-so loves coming in person. Or, you know, no, so-and-so is going to have to find another therapist. So, you know, and it's never easy as that there are our journeys with our clients as mental health practitioners, they're going to come to an end eventually.
00:27:34
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Most of the time, the client makes that decision. when it's When you have to be the one to make that decision, it's it's it's hard.
00:27:46
Blanca Torres, LMFT
It's hard, whether it is that your journey with that person has come to an end for one reason or another, or what what happens most of the time, which is that... as we continue to grow as mental health practitioners, so will our expertise, so will our niche.
00:28:02
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And then that means that maybe me, who I am as a therapist in a year, isn't the right fit for everyone who I'm the right fit for right now. And that was something my own therapist told me. She said,
00:28:19
Blanca Torres, LMFT
that as you continue to grow, so will your niche and that and and so will your business and that sometimes means that your target audience changes. And I think what's happening for me naturally, is I'm getting more and more clients who want to do telehealth or are are very flexible with it and can switch or want to switch depending on what their day is looking like. And so that for me is a sign that I need to shift my business too. um But yeah, letting go of the people pleasing part, I think, is been probably the biggest part.
00:28:59
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I think what's really important about what you have said with that is that our training reinforces the people pleasing.
00:29:08
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um Because i wouldn't say it's just difficult to make the decision. I feel like it feels almost impossible.
00:29:20
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And that's not true, right? That's something that my brain was telling me. But at the time that I had to make difficult decision with my practice, which was last year, it felt impossible.
00:29:31
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And it was a decision, as you know, because I had been talking to you for years, like two years to decide to to execute something that i pretty much in my heart already knew.
00:29:45
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And that's part of the reason why I started the coaching. Because, i mean, there's a myriad of reasons, but like, I'm like, yes, people could figure this out on their own.
00:29:57
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
But the amount of work it takes to unlearn shit that we were taught, like nobody has that kind of time.
00:30:04
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I want people to have time, right? I want people to have their time back.
00:30:10
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And help them move through those decisions in a faster way. Because i thought I was the most terrible person for thinking, i'm like I need to cut out like half my caseload.
00:30:27
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
More than half. I was like, I got to scale way back. And that decision was coming from significant health issues, which I've talked about on previous episodes.
00:30:35
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I'm like, I physically can't keep this up. This job is really demanding in a very specific way. And on top of like having to constantly reschedule or cancel last minute and all these things because of being sick or having to go to the hospital or all or needing surgery,
00:30:55
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um i was still pushing through because in the back of my head, I'm like, what are they gonna do?
00:31:06
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:31:06
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
like these people have been seeing me for X number of years. What are they going to do? if if I end with them, what's going to happen? And I think that that was reinforced by the fact that even though some people were actually on their way out of treatment just before COVID started, they clung on to me for dear life.
00:31:28
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:31:29
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Suddenly, people who were at every other week were back to weekly, or if they were monthly, they were back to every other week, and they weren't going anywhere. And I had a client in and out of the hospital during that time.
00:31:45
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And that was really hard. Sometimes I'd be away. I'd finally have gotten to take a vacation and I get a crisis call.
00:31:54
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And it's just me because that's my business.
00:31:58
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And yes, I had backup, but I'm also like, it's hard to have a backup manage a case that they know nothing about for a crisis, right?
00:32:07
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
so Hospitalization. And so I was like, I physically can't do this.
00:32:15
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And it took a lot of things happening to me to finally arrive at that decision. And people were angry. um people I mean they were understanding but they were also angry because I had been very transparent with my clients about my health issues because I had to say to them like this will create interruptions to our schedule that I won't be able to predict
00:32:39
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
They had the right to know that. But yeah, I mean, people were not happy about it.
00:32:45
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:32:46
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I mean, you know, it's a relationship. I always say to my own therapist, like, you know, this is probably the most like fucked up thing that you could we could be doing for like a job.
00:32:56
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah. Like people are paying for a relationship that's supposed to be healing. Right. We are trusted with a really huge task.
00:33:06
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
So of course they have feelings about us and what we do. And we have feelings about them.
00:33:11
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Right. And so like I genuinely care for my clients.
00:33:17
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
deeply and so that that makes the decision even harder to make and so there's something like there's a also the nature of the profession and the nature of the relationship that makes these decisions like really really hard
00:33:29
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah, but I mean, it is a relationship. And I and i always tell, you know, new clients, like like, one of the most important things that will help to create change is the relationship you and I have, and what that looks like and feels like for you. So yeah, so part of it is like,
00:33:46
Blanca Torres, LMFT
You know, ah I think my moment of joy and thriving last week that I was able to set a boundary around a relationship and that was really hard. And this is not that different.
Client Alignment and Values in Practice
00:33:56
Blanca Torres, LMFT
like the The context might be different, but the process is the same, which is I need to do something in order to take care of myself, to continue to take care of you.
00:34:09
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And that might mean that you lose out on part of it, which is sitting in my pretty orange ah office with my plants and and diffuser but um yeah it's definitely it's own thing
00:34:26
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I do want to, and we might not spend too much time on this, mostly because it's the the business thinking that we're trying to talk about here. But um I do want to spotlight this because it's true for both of us. Both of us have expertise in working with folks who have been in intimate partner violence relationships and um safety is always one of the challenges there.
00:34:54
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I would say for me, like that was one of the harder parts of the decision so making my practice telehealth. um And I know it's probably on your mind too.
00:35:05
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:35:06
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And so I was wondering you could talk about that as well.
00:35:07
Blanca Torres, LMFT
It is.
00:35:11
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:35:11
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Because, yes, it may be a business decision, but there are like real impacts and considerations.
00:35:19
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right. Like what clients could I potentially lose out on that I could do great work with that can't if I'm only telehealth, because that means I'll be doing sessions in the place where they're experiencing abuse with their abuser on the other side of the door.
00:35:38
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah, I... I don't have any deep thoughts or anything really to wax politically about with that one other than there's some grief involved in losing that potential client. But if you think about it, right? Like I lose potential clients every day because I'm located on these cross streets and not across town. Right. So so God, i I kind of, I want to have more to say about it, but I don't think I do other than that part is hard.
00:36:15
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I don't know. What were you, what was in your head about this?
00:36:18
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Well, I was just reminded of how you talked about like thinking about the other options that you had, like even if you got rid of your office, if you still wanted to be able to service those clients, you could like sublet from somebody you know or like just pay a fee for the hour.
00:36:33
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
and certainly, as I mentioned, I'd pay only when I need an office space.
00:36:39
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um And so those are options that I leave available for me to be able to provide, at least for me, psychological testing, which is important in my business. But, um you know, there are options and ways to think about it. But certainly, like, you know, if you're the roaming therapist, that's going to be harder to do. Right.
00:37:00
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
It's going to harder to
00:37:00
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:37:02
Blanca Torres, LMFT
It is. It is going to be harder to do. and I can't.
00:37:08
Blanca Torres, LMFT
pay money and then not live the life I want because of a potential.
00:37:17
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:37:17
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And it's not like we live in a world where there's one therapist for every one client, right? Like it's not a one-to-one thing where it's this massive competition.
00:37:30
Blanca Torres, LMFT
There are not enough therapists. to cover the need. And so if me going telehealth means I am not for that client, that's okay because someone else will be right.
00:37:46
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Which I think that's part of the indoctrination, the indoctrination too, that you have to take every client that calls, or you have to take every client that's really aligned with you, or you have to take every client that's your niche.
00:37:59
Blanca Torres, LMFT
No, you you don't, you don't.
00:38:00
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Well, what's really funny is not everybody talks about alignment.
00:38:08
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I do. We do all the time.
00:38:09
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
No, we talk about alignment, right?
00:38:09
Blanca Torres, LMFT
So, yeah.
00:38:11
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
But when I, like, know what? They talked about niches, clinical niches, right?
00:38:18
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:38:19
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Alignment came later. Alignment came much later in my business. And that's why i deal with alignment early in my coaching program, because alignment is absolutely a part of running a business.
00:38:32
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yes.
00:38:32
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
God, Blanca.
00:38:33
Blanca Torres, LMFT
yeah I'm having a trauma response
00:38:36
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
but i' like
00:38:38
Blanca Torres, LMFT
ah because I'm having a flashback because I'm remembering you're right. You're right. Like ah we're just told, I remember, i don't remember the which class or which professor or which, which abuser did this to me.
00:38:53
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah.
00:38:55
Blanca Torres, LMFT
But I remember speaking up in class and saying, you're telling me, that if someone genuinely is violently racist towards me, I have to just swallow that, take it and be that person's therapist.
00:39:14
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And I was told basically, yes. And so, yeah, it's all coming back. You're totally right. There is no conversation about alignment whatsoever. And again, with the indoctrination is you have to take everyone.
00:39:25
Blanca Torres, LMFT
If they want to see you, you have to take them.
00:39:28
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um one
00:39:28
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And that is simply not true. ah mean it may be it might be true just to for a space for nuance. If you are ah in your practicum, if you are getting your licensure, maybe that might be true, maybe on your context, but i i most of my clients, even through internship have been highly aligned.
00:39:49
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah, I would challenge the licensure part 100%, because there was a lot of things I was told when I was pre-licensed that were just not true.
00:40:01
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
That's a whole other episode.
00:40:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
But think that... i think that um You know, it reminds me of a conversation I had with my ah therapist.
00:40:13
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I keep saying my therapist, but he was my last therapist. i'm I'm out at the moment after seven years.
00:40:19
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um But I remember saying to him, and he he dealt with a lot of stuff from me, but I was like, you can't you can't be a generalist. I'm like, you literally cannot.
00:40:31
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And maybe somebody will say, well, that's a lie you're telling somebody. And I'm like, no, I actually think being a generalist is irresponsible um because it means that you are not drilling down enough in the area, in certain areas in order to actually be able to give people the care that they deserve.
00:40:50
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Right. And so and that and and that's not just about niche. That's also about alignment. And I appreciate your example, because like for a while I used to work with families ah in my practice. I only do it through my forensic work.
00:41:07
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um And I took a case that like somewhere in my gut, and this is early in my business, so before COVID. And I saw them through COVID early in my business and it was referred to me from a hospital.
00:41:24
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I was nervous as hell to talk about this case because like how it ended is like the parent threatened to like report me because I set a boundary around how I refused to be talked to in my sessions.
00:41:40
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I was being yelled at, disrespected to the point that like another family member had to like you know say something about it. And and i remember think like I remember being like, no, like i will not tolerate this.
00:41:56
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I need to say something about it. And like the amount of abuse, we're told, like well, you know they're but you're never really taught how to manage that And so then the message is exactly what you said, which is do not, you don't do anything. You just take it.
00:42:21
Blanca Torres, LMFT
yeah
00:42:23
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And one of the things that I learned in my unlearning is that the most valuable thing that you could do is address it.
00:42:34
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:42:36
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And whether or not that person, you know, how they deal with that, that's it's a whole other story. But even beyond that, I've learned that moving in a way that draws alignment,
00:42:51
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
generally speaking, keeps that from being a thing in the first place, right?
00:42:56
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
People know who you are and what you stand for, and and they're not for it. Unless their goal is to just, you know, show up in your office because they want to be violent.
00:43:09
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Because i I wouldn't put a pass on people. um Most of the time, it's not an issue.
00:43:20
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
When you're moving in an aligned way.
00:43:22
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah. And, and yeah, I think I, I spoke a little bit about this in our self care episode, but yeah, the hardest, the times it's hardest to take care of myself is when there's some kind of something is off in alignment um with our work. But
00:43:42
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And, and I, and I don't think that this is just specific to mental health practitioners, right? Like anybody running a business has their person.
00:43:46
Blanca Torres, LMFT
No.
00:43:52
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:43:53
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
and And that's your person and that's who you are looking for.
00:43:55
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:43:57
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And there's nothing wrong with that because that allows us to give the best service to our our person.
00:44:02
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:44:05
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:44:05
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
So it's true for the mechanic, it's true for the accountant, right? Like um if you really value service, you know that you have specific people, period.
00:44:15
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah. You know what a really good example of this is? And I just think about it because I just think about like how badly we need this business in my town, especially once I became a homeowner, but I somewhere in the Pacific Northwest, I don't know
Balancing Administrative and Clinical Work
00:44:30
Blanca Torres, LMFT
where, but there's some business called rent a butch where,
00:44:34
Blanca Torres, LMFT
You can have it's handy, ah handy work. And it's only it's only women providers. And I think about this all the time. Because when I first became a homeowner, i i was having repair people in all the time. And they were always men.
00:44:51
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And I didn't always have another man or human to come be in the house with me while this work happened.
00:45:01
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And the number of times I wish, man, why aren't there any like handy women? who Like, where can I get that?
00:45:07
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Anyway, totally random aside, but this is exactly what you're talking about. Like there's how many businesses are there for handy people? a ton. But like this one business, I bet you they do fucking good.
00:45:20
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:21
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Because it's a need
00:45:21
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I would much prefer the amount of times that people have like been there to like fix my oven but have hit on me or been like, you'll be a good housewife just because I offered them a glass of water.
00:45:31
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I'm just like, fix the freaking oven, dude, and get out of my apartment like you're creepy.
00:45:37
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um But anyway, was a little bit of an aside, but I wanted to sort of talk about how do you balance um seeing clients and managing the business, right?
00:45:50
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Because there's working in your business and working on your business. So what do you do to balance that?
00:45:56
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I have my Monday admin time, which happens before this podcast is recorded. This is when I'm catching up on notes. This is when I'm responding to ah advertising in inquiry or, you know, caught new client in, in,
00:46:11
Blanca Torres, LMFT
inquiries. This is when I'm doing bookkeeping. This is when I'm responding to my biller. Um, so I just have a separate time for it. Um, because otherwise I will be sitting in session thinking, when am I going to have time to do this?
00:46:25
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Now it's set aside for Monday mornings after coffee.
00:46:30
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
how do you balance that from a financial perspective? And my admin time is also Monday morning unless I'm testing.
00:46:37
Blanca Torres, LMFT
How do I do what?
00:46:38
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Balance it financially, right? Because people are always scared, like, well, I can't set aside time to work on my business because that's time I'm losing money.
00:46:51
Blanca Torres, LMFT
For those that are listening and not watching, I'm shocked. i have My face is out of shock. um
00:46:57
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
What are you shocked about?
00:46:57
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I don't know. i never thought about it that way. Like, what do you mean? Like,
00:47:05
Blanca Torres, LMFT
ah what do you mean? it's It's like part of, what do you mean?
00:47:10
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I've literally, um I guess, like, I guess for my, that maybe speaks to a little bit of like privilege that, ah that, that, I have it built into my head to the point that I never even thought about that. Like I never, I guess I never thought to myself, I better get paid for email sending.
00:47:27
Blanca Torres, LMFT
i don't know. God, Ksera I'm so, I don't know.
00:47:32
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
ah This is why I do the coaching.
00:47:36
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
No, I mean, the reason I asked this question is because like most most clinicians are so booked. Right. That they fall behind on notes because there's no time to do them. Right. Because there are choices that are being made between, well, do I go to the bathroom or do I eat a snack or do I do my note and then lose the 15 minutes that I have? And then next thing you know, I'm behind on notes. And then, right, like they don't even structure it into their time.
00:48:04
Blanca Torres, LMFT
yeah i i'm Yeah, I just, I structure it into my time.
00:48:10
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah. And the reason why I bring this up, because this is the business, right? This is the business. Time to work on your business and time to work in your business. Because guess what?
00:48:21
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Those clinical notes, they get done at some point anyway.
00:48:26
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
You're going to have to do them. Right.
00:48:29
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:48:29
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
So you might as well set aside the time for them without it having to be begrudging extra time so that I think it's therapy notes, their Instagram is making a killing off of just memes about therapists being behind on their notes, right?
00:48:45
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
But other other things behind the scenes, right? Negotiating your rate, right?
00:48:51
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Early in your business with your insurance the insurance company, right? Making sure that you're getting what you could be getting potentially.
00:48:58
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:48:59
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Like there are all these little things because if you don't feel like you have to like see 40 clients just to make ends meet, it's easier to structure in that time, but you're going to have to do it anyway, right?
00:49:15
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah. yeah
00:49:18
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah, I don't know. i don't know why that has never been a problem for me. I just...
00:49:25
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I promise you, you're probably like, i don't know. I don't know the statistics, but you're probably an outlier because many you have not set aside this time.
00:49:37
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And I don't, I don't, I hope my shock doesn't make anyone feel shamed. i I can see how that can happen. i maybe it was because you had already had a practice for so long.
00:49:52
Blanca Torres, LMFT
um I did become a therapist in my mid 30s. But I have, I actually have a lot of friends who are therapists. And so it might have just been a quiet lesson learned that I had in my head, watching you become a therapist a therapist, a mental health practitioner, watching other friends become mental health practitioners, and I think it might have just been something I took note of early on and and structured it into my time.
00:50:20
Blanca Torres, LMFT
The other part of it that might be feeding into this, as I mentioned in our self-care episode, is my number one motivator is' time to do nothing.
00:50:30
Blanca Torres, LMFT
So I will do whatever I have to do to get that, the working on the business stuff done so that when I'm done with clients at 7pm on a Wednesday,
00:50:45
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I can then go on my hot girl walks with my best friend or I can like cook dinner or just watch TV or whatever it is that's on the menu for that day without any interruption. So I think it just as and maybe the outlier there is that I i just happen to experience motivation through time to do nothing.
00:51:10
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah no same i mean again certainly it was a learning curve but like my motivation is time to play my video game time to read like i need to be like i am not cooking dinner and thinking that i haven't done this note i'm
Marketing and Promotion Strategies
00:51:28
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
cooking dinner and i'm listening to my spicy audio book yeah
00:51:33
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right.
00:51:35
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah.
00:51:35
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
When I'm ready to sit down and watch my C drama, I can do that. Right. And that's not to say that there are times in my business where I like, I, like I do fall behind sometimes like that, that happens.
00:51:46
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Sure.
00:51:46
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Like that's just, you know, natural ebb and flow, but the systems are in place to make sure that that's not something that I'm constantly chasing.
00:51:55
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Um,
00:51:58
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I do want to sort of close-ish, maybe like two more questions, but talking about marketing and self-promotion. So tell me about your relationship with that.
00:52:14
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
and
00:52:14
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Well,
00:52:14
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
have you had to do it for your business?
00:52:18
Blanca Torres, LMFT
yes, but not... Yes and no. but So yes, i write I'm on all the therapy sites, um inclusive therapists, Latinx therapy, and unfortunately I am on psychology today.
00:52:32
Blanca Torres, LMFT
That is a big one we' ah in the area I'm in, so that is the option I have. um But I don't promote myself, for example, like on social media, Instagram,
00:52:44
Blanca Torres, LMFT
due to then the, where my website lives right now, which I am working to change, but due to where it lives right now, I have no control over SEO type things. So, um, I have not done that. So the vast majority of my advertising happens on, um therapist search engines.
00:53:03
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Um, and so, I don't use social media for self-promotion. As I mentioned, I think early on in our podcast journey is I have a lot of, i have trauma.
00:53:15
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And so it brings me a lot of anxiety to think about putting myself out there as a therapist on social media, though I do have a social media page for my practice. So I don't, I don't engage in it in a lot in that way. But I do think one thing that supported my success is that my profiles make it very clear who I am um politically.
00:53:36
Blanca Torres, LMFT
um and i think that is one thing we're told not to do we're told not to be too specific because you you don't want people to weed themselves out and i think maybe it can be true for some people it can be true in some ways like i think you were mentioning you don't put you have a wait list because then people weed themselves out um that was you right
00:53:59
Blanca Torres, LMFT
that I had that conversation with. Yeah. Um, so I think in terms of advertising, it has felt good for me to be that direct in my profiles and put myself out there as I am.
00:54:14
Blanca Torres, LMFT
And I think it has paid off in terms of, of, um, getting me clients in alignment, but then getting clients period.
00:54:24
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Um, so I'm very comfortable when it's static, um,
00:54:29
Blanca Torres, LMFT
like those profiles, not as comfortable when it comes to like my website or social media.
00:54:35
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah, and um I can't remember if I talked about in previous episodes, but I only had Psychology Today for the first six months of my business and didn't need it after that.
00:54:46
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
i Created my own website, did my SEO, um made sure my messaging was clear. I talk a lot about messaging with clinicians. um Like, it's it's not as, I mean, it it can be simple, but it also isn't in some ways.
00:55:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah. um And even i even though i'm a member of Inclusive Therapists I'm not listed. ah most
00:55:10
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I'm
00:55:11
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I'd say like ah ah most of my clients find me through my website. um Sometimes I'll get like... inquiries from insurance. ah
00:55:21
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
But those don't convert, really. I can't tell you how many times I've responded to those messages in the past when I was actively taking therapy clients and I never heard anything.
00:55:32
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
So 100% of my referrals over the years post being listed with a directory was from my website.
00:55:43
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And the reason why I started social media and I talked about this, I think earlier episodes is that is not to get clients. Like that's not a place where people are like, Hey, I need therapy from you. Like I started it purely like as an educational endeavor because I was seeing other clinicians posting things that were not accurate on social media.
00:56:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I was like, Oh, could complain or,
00:56:06
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I can become a part of the accurate voices here because I was like, people deserve accurate information, especially if they can't access mental health services.
00:56:15
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Like they're consuming a lot of it online.
00:56:18
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um And that doesn't mean that I haven't had like my own anxieties about being present and we can do a whole episode um that. But yeah, um the directory thing made me think about this, that if you are on our Patreon,
00:56:34
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
i I forget which level. apologize. But you can get an audit from us um of your listings, if you would like.
Financial Management in Therapy Practice
00:56:47
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um And do a whole media audit with folks as part of my coaching program. So... We've become really good at doing this and sort of recognizing what people are looking for and really helping folks get over that.
00:57:10
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I can't list myself a certain way because I'm worried I won't get X person. And I'm like, maybe they're not your person.
00:57:16
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah, right, right. Then they're just not your person.
00:57:19
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And we're never told that.
00:57:22
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
We're told we need all the people and and like, no no, we just need the the people. right
00:57:28
Blanca Torres, LMFT
No, yeah, yeah.
00:57:30
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um Do you feel like you have acquired any specific financial skills in order to like manage business? Do you feel like it was something you needed to do or how did you manage it?
00:57:47
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I don't have anything. I'm going off vibes.
00:57:51
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I don't, I, yeah, I, I'm just going to be honest, right? Like I do.
00:57:55
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Well, that's not true. You use QuickBooks.
00:57:58
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I, well, I don't use QuickBooks, but I do have a bookkeeping, so I use zero.
00:58:01
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah. Zero. Okay.
00:58:03
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Um, cause
00:58:05
Blanca Torres, LMFT
there was a lot of tears when trying to figure out QuickBooks online.
00:58:09
Blanca Torres, LMFT
It was great for when I was a sole proprietor, not so great. Once you have an LLC, um, it's definitely not for beginners.
00:58:18
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Um, so zero is much easier, but yeah, I mean, I had to learn bookkeeping really. That's what I had to learn, which I guess it is easier than maybe if I had been doing it 40 years ago, um, thanks to like apps and stuff.
00:58:32
Blanca Torres, LMFT
But
00:58:32
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um
00:58:33
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Um, yeah, i had to learn how to do bookkeeping and that was not fun or easy. I paid for a course. I ended up not using it. I just dumped QuickBooks online and switched to a whole different, um, provider cause I just could not figure it out.
00:58:48
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Um,
00:58:48
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
like Yeah. And mine was different. So I did everything for myself and use QuickBooks my first year of business. And after I sat down and like, it took me like eight hours to do my taxes.
00:59:01
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I was like, I'm hiring somebody.
00:59:06
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And that is what I have done. And that doesn't mean that you turn a blind eye to your stuff because like, you know, I catch things and I'm like, this is not like, you know, so you do need to make sure you're looking closely at your money and you understand like your accounting, like,
00:59:24
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um But you do not have to learn all of those things, right? Like you can choose to hire someone to manage it. um And that was just an expense that I built into my business because I was like, my time is what I need.
00:59:40
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And I
Telehealth Transition and Personal Growth
00:59:40
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
don't want to spend a bunch of time dealing with this stuff for which there are literally entire professions, right?
00:59:46
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Like CPAs are a thing for a reason.
00:59:50
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Right, right.
00:59:51
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
and So if you're unaliving yourself over something that you really don't have to do and like you could afford so put aside money for that, I would recommend doing it.
01:00:01
Blanca Torres, LMFT
There are some problems that if you have the ability to, it is just better to throw money at.
01:00:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah.
01:00:05
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah Yes. Yes. And, you know, we can, we can probably do like an entire another episode because there's so much more to talk about, or maybe we'll do it on our, in our um Patreon, but like passive income streams, like even just like speaking engagements and all of those different things, and maybe and consulting for other folks. I know you've done some stuff. So like, there's a lot more we can talk about,
01:00:34
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Maybe it'll be on the Patreon. Maybe it'll be on on on a main episode feed. Anything else do you want say about this before we close out the topic?
01:00:44
Blanca Torres, LMFT
um ah guess spoiler alert. I am going to go fully telehealth
01:00:54
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yes.
01:00:54
Blanca Torres, LMFT
probably by July. It is March 3rd.
01:00:58
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yes, you've picked it day I'm going to hold you to it because this is on the recording, Blanca. Blanca.
01:01:04
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Well,
01:01:04
Blanca Torres, LMFT
So we'll see. Maybe this episode might be out by then and I'll be a liar or a truth teller. We'll see.
01:01:12
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I think you'll be a truth teller. Yeah, definitely. This episode might come out maybe by then or
01:01:17
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
So I really enjoyed talking about this with you.
01:01:23
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yay.
01:01:23
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Moving into our moment of breathing and joy.
01:01:28
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah, do you want to lead us today?
01:01:31
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yeah, sure. I can lead us. So as usual, when we talk about all the things, we want to take a moment to practice what we preach and take a deep breath. Or as I always say, you could place your hand on your heart and track your heartbeat if breathing is uncomfortable for you.
01:01:49
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
So take a deep breath in through your nose.
01:01:55
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Hold.
01:01:59
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
And exhale.
01:02:04
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
We're going to do one more time. Inhale. One, two, three, four.
01:02:10
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Hold. Two, three, four. Exhale. Two, three, four. And you can always change the breathing numbers to whatever feels comfortable for So,
01:02:27
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
We are in our moments of joy, Blanca. What is bringing you joy this week? Or thriving?
01:02:36
Blanca Torres, LMFT
God, I think I have to admit, like, saying it out loud, I'm going to go fully telehealth by mid July. That I think if I'm if I'm noticing what's happening in my body, and even my brain, yeah, I just I'm ready for that flexibility.
01:02:55
Blanca Torres, LMFT
I'm ready for that. What that's what that being next. So I think my moment of joy and thriving this week is making that decision for myself.
01:03:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Yes, and I am excited for you make that decision.
01:03:06
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Thank you. Yay.
01:03:08
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
um For me this week, it's that even though a presentation i was supposed to do today got canceled, well, it's rescheduled to April, um it's probably like scaling to be some of the bigger presentations I've been doing of my career.
01:03:27
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
ah and
01:03:28
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yay.
01:03:29
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
I got another email today from another big you know, testing place asking me to do a presentation, ah ah literally surrounding the topic of like ableism and oppression. And I'm like, um are y'all sure you want this? Because I will give it to you.
01:03:46
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
So i feel like sort of like a nervous excitement about like, I wasn't expecting any of these things at this point in my career. So I'm super excited about it.
01:03:55
Blanca Torres, LMFT
Yeah. We're snapping our fingers if you're not watching.
01:04:02
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
yeah Yes. So we look forward to talking with you next time. We hope that you'll join us for our next episode.
01:04:13
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Until then.
01:04:15
Blanca Torres, LMFT
bye
01:04:17
Ksera Dyette, Psy.D. (she/her)
Bye
01:04:18
Blanca Torres, LMFT
so