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Episode 4: Called to...Not Answering the Call
17 Plays2 months ago
In this episode, we wrestle with a long-held concern that mental health practitioners do not really choose the profession and what would it actually mean or look like for that to occur. This was, like all our conversations, an imperfect one. We hope our out loud struggle helps other healers out there.
Reminder: As usual, this episode is not meant for tiny ears.
Reminder 2: We recorded our first few episodes in batches, so our time context may not align with release dates.
Mentions: Dr. Dyette’s Rooted Justice Coaching Program for therapists wanting liberatory private practices. You can find her on IG @theantiableistdoc or look her up on LinkedIn. You can book from either platform.
Our Instagram is @calledtohealing. We are on Spotify, and you can find us on YouTube for our video episodes.
Patreon at: patreon.com/calledtohealing.
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Music: Calypsonian by Eshi Era (Standard License) Check out their Artist Profile here: Eshi Era
Until next time. REST easy.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Call to Healing'
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Called to Healing, we two mental health practitioners on different parts of our professional journeys come together have conversations our training left out. From cultural identity to wyt supremacy in our field, we're showing up despite it to spite it.
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome, everybody. I'm Blanca. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist in Nevada, and you are joining us for the fourth episode of Called to Healing.
00:00:27
Speaker
We also have a little co-host today, this yeah be little Sebastian, and he's just kind of hanging out for emotional support. And for those who can't see because they're listening to the episode, who did you just introduce to us? Just introduced my teeny little dog, little Sebastian. He's all black with this incredible little underbite that you can't see me my mimicking right. You may not be able to see me mimicking right now. I just introduced one of my very beloved dogs.
Why Become a Therapist?
00:00:55
Speaker
Yes. And I'm Ksera Dyette she, her. I am located in Massachusetts. And Blanca and I acknowledge that our meeting is being held on the traditional lands of the Pawtucket, Nuwuvi and Southern Pauite people. And we pay our respect to our elders who have stewarded these lands for generations, both past and present.
00:01:17
Speaker
So if you're joining us for this episode, we are going to be talking about not answering the call ah to be clinicians, therapists, however you want to put it.
00:01:30
Speaker
Everybody talks about choosing to be a therapist, um but nobody talks about not choosing to or like what would even happen for you to arrive at that choice.
00:01:42
Speaker
And Blanca and I are at different points in our journeys right now. Blanca is very much like deep steeped in her business, which I talked her into a little bit.
00:01:53
Speaker
ah And I still have my business, but I'm transitioning largely to ah coaching and consulting and doing a lot more psychological assessment, which has always been a love of mine.
00:02:06
Speaker
So we've shared some of the same parts of this journey, but our path has been different. So I'm hoping we could start with, and you can go first, Blanca, like Mm-hmm.
00:02:19
Speaker
Just, I know if you haven't listened to our prior episodes, we've talked a little bit about this, but like what made you decide or drew you to a career initially in the mental health field?
00:02:30
Speaker
Well, so interestingly, i wanted to be a therapist when I was 18 and starting college, but I had a mentor at the time that I'm no interest, nothing really negative to say outwardly about, but The way she moved, the way she talked, it just really turned me off to the whole thing. And I was always really super interested in human sexuality.
00:02:51
Speaker
So I took a, what's it called? Detour.
Venturing into Private Practice
00:02:57
Speaker
Detour. I took a detour and I was working in sexual and reproductive health and rights for about 11 or 12 years when I decided i didn't want to be a part of office politics anymore. I didn't want to have a boss, despite my boss being amazing.
00:03:13
Speaker
um And I really wanted to get back to working with the people. The more you move up and in a career nonprofits, the less you are with the people. So I think those are the things that kind of finally thrust me back many, many years later. It was the desire to work for myself and the desire to work with the people. And I think I just have to mention, I think part of it was just having such an incredible connection and journey with my own therapist that I was like, ah,
00:03:46
Speaker
I, I, who I still see to this day. um I'm like, I want to do this. And I actually remember the session where I said to her, I want to do what you do and how you do it.
00:03:59
Speaker
And that is, I guess, in a couple minutes, my journey to being a therapist. What about yours, Ksera um Mine on the surface appears linear, but internally it wasn't linear.
00:04:12
Speaker
um I was ah triple major in undergrad, ah criminal justice, psychology, and philosophy with a minor in sociology and
00:04:23
Speaker
Since high school, I knew I was interested in what made people choose to do certain things under certain circumstances. um My mom was always watching a lot of, like, forensic shows and, like, courtroom stuff. And...
00:04:42
Speaker
True crime girly before true crime girly. Yes, absolutely. And so i used to watch those things with her and I didn't formulate it at the time, but I think my interest was really about understanding how we in our circumstances as immigrants could end up either as, as you know, for lack of a better way of putting it on the right or wrong side of the law, right? Or a successful or not, because I'm like, we were really poor. Right.
00:05:10
Speaker
Like by all accounts, I shouldn't have ended up in the position that I'm in now. and so... That I think later translated to an interest in trauma. I think that's really what I was thinking about, but I didn't have the language for it at the time.
00:05:25
Speaker
And so I made a decision to like go to grad school for psychology rather than for law, which was something that I had been considering. So I was a little bit split.
00:05:38
Speaker
And then even when I was in my clinical program, I wasn't entirely sure like where I was going to end up, what kind of setting or anything like that. um And it was a traumatic first job that led me to starting my practice. So that's kind of the journey looked linear on the surface was not linear internally.
00:06:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And now here we are starting a podcast. Yeah. We are. And i in in starting this podcast, one of the things that we've talked about is like the expectations for our work versus the reality.
00:06:18
Speaker
of the work. um And this conversation obviously would look different pre COVID. But of course, we've talked about on like a previous episode, how like you started this during COVID, whereas yeah I started before.
The Reality of Being a Therapist
00:06:32
Speaker
um And so what did you, what did we imagine this to be like first? And like, how much did that actually align with reality for you?
00:06:46
Speaker
oh I mean, I think it's a mixed bag. i think I think it's also relevant that I went back to school to become a therapist at 32 years old, and I had been working in nonprofits for my entire adult life. So had some, I don't know, i don't know if I want to call it experience, but maybe privilege that comes with age. Like, I I had a different perspective about school and starting my business doing it as a 35. Well, by the time I graduated a 35 year old, then maybe some of some folks who are starting out right, like at 22 or 23. Yeah.
00:07:26
Speaker
me um yeah So some stuff has been as expected. I love that. I can decide that I don't see clients before 11 or that I don't want to work on Mondays so that I can work on a Saturday to reach certain other people.
00:07:42
Speaker
Stuff that has been what i but I have expected was like, I don't i don't want a sound to too like waxing too poetically about this.
00:07:55
Speaker
But the connections I have with my clients, and of course it's not, and and it varies, right? There's lots of different colors and it doesn't make one better than the other. but some of the connections i have I have with my clients are just genuinely so...
00:08:13
Speaker
I don't know, I guess, and I don't know, deep, I guess, genuine. i don't want to use genuine again. um But just being connected to other people on this one-on-one way, when they're open to sharing, like, the thoughts they don't share with anyone else,
00:08:30
Speaker
The feelings they don't share with one another. I don't know. I find that so important and so rewarding and so beautiful in so many ways. So that's been what I've expected. um What hasn't been what I expected was obviously as I talked in my grad school experience, the...
00:08:50
Speaker
Treatment from elders in the field, right? The gatekeepers, that has not been at all what I expected. That was way more painful and traumatic than I thought.
00:09:01
Speaker
um
00:09:04
Speaker
Dealing with insurance has not been what I thought. but and Yes and no. i guess, I don't know. Maybe it is what I expected. Still disappointing. um And what hasn't but what else hasn't been what I expected?
00:09:20
Speaker
I mean, the emotional toll. I mean, going back, right, like to that connection, that's incredible. But the emotional toll of holding people's trauma, um I think is probably more than I expected.
00:09:35
Speaker
But there's some good things that come out of that too, which I'm sure we'll get to. But yeah, what about for you? Yeah. oh I mean, i think because I was the 20-something person, who went straight into it.
00:09:49
Speaker
um I didn't expect, I mean, similarly to you, I'll start, I'll start with that. I
00:09:56
Speaker
did not expect was the treatment in grad school from elders, as you said. Um, and we did talk about that more on that episode, in my episode about that.
00:10:06
Speaker
Um, And how that played out in my first job. How, you know, i I took that first job at a group practice because I really wasn't sure where I was going to land. And I was still studying for the licensure exam. I was unlicensed. And um As I'll say before, and I'll say again, a lot of these group practices, not all, but many of them prey on people like myself who yeah are young, not yet licensed.
00:10:35
Speaker
They can capitalize on your labor and pay you very little for it while they're getting a lot more on the back end and you don't know about it. Yes. and for me because i just needed a job i ignored like a slight red flag that i was like maybe it's fine but like it became clear to me that i wasn't going to be allowed to do the work that i wanted to do and that was something that i did not expect and i was very frustrated by it because i'm like here i have all of these amazing skills that I can give to people and you're actually actively preventing me from exercising them.
00:11:11
Speaker
One, because you want to control me and two, because you're worried about liability. um And this company didn't want me to see more quote severe cases of um autism ah because they were worried about things that might happen with the children if they were nonverbal or anything like that. Just really awful stuff.
00:11:30
Speaker
and things I mean, sorry, go ahead. Well, I had a kid who, like, in our first meeting, like, tore up the office, you know? And sometimes that's just the stuff that you sit with.
00:11:41
Speaker
It's, yeah you know? um And they were like, you can't keep seeing this kid. And I'm like, you don't get to decide that. Like, I feel perfectly fine with him. I'm not unsafe in any way.
00:11:53
Speaker
and And they were clocking when I was, like, arriving because sometimes, like, a client would cancel. And I'm like, oh well, okay. but I know my client has canceled. I'll get here before my next one. And they'll be like, the administrative person told me that you came in late.
00:12:08
Speaker
And so um I'll tell that story. It's violent. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. um And I'll tell that story like in another episode probably, but like um
00:12:24
Speaker
that it's one of the things that, made me create my own practice among many things. I was like, I can't have anybody have this much control over me ever again. And so when I started my practice, it was more along the lines of how you described what it's like for you, not only being able to craft your own hours, but but also work with people in the way that you would like to and the way that you know is best in collaboration together with them without sort of ah a group being a regulatory entity. Mm-hmm.
00:12:59
Speaker
And so when I was running my own business, like actively seeing much ah higher caseload of therapy clients, it aligned more with the reality for me. Yeah.
00:13:11
Speaker
yeah So I know was like a little bit long, but um what you said about the connections, you know, the thing I was thinking is that they're transformative too. Yes. For the therapist and the client. Yes, for both people, because you're invested.
00:13:26
Speaker
You're invested in this person's life and their story and their healing and their growth. And a lot of people think we're just sitting here and just listening. But it takes a lot to listen to someone in a certain kind of way and to be present for them and show up for them every single week, hour to hour, back to back.
00:13:47
Speaker
Um, for as many people as we
Informed Choices in Therapy
00:13:49
Speaker
do this for. And so, um, that's always been one of the more rewarding parts of the practice. Um,
00:14:01
Speaker
But as you know, and as you know, I'm in a different part of my journey with this, partly because of COVID. And we'll kind of get to like where we are specifically. But this turning point, at least right now, got me thinking about the fact that no one gets us really thinking about our choice
00:14:28
Speaker
to go into the profession. And I know you said for you, you came to it later after like nonprofit work, but can you trace, do you think you're able to trace like what's specifically motivating to that choice versus something else, right?
00:14:47
Speaker
Where you could be helping people.
00:14:51
Speaker
You know, i would have maybe said, I don't think so, but something immediately came up with you when you said that. So i imagine that that's the answer. While I was working in the nonprofits, there was an attempt to unionize.
00:15:06
Speaker
um And at the same time that that was happening, I was probably at the most severe point of my depression. um And I think the way that I was treated about my inability, and and now that I'm a therapist, I know it's a literal inability to get out of bed and function the way I was expected to.
00:15:34
Speaker
um
00:15:37
Speaker
i think that's part of it because I'm like, how am I in these leftist feminist spaces? And I'm being told I'm not being supportive, that I'm not doing enough, that everyone goes through problems, so why can't Blanca show up? um that like Just being in those spaces that were supposed to be supportive, treating me so so
00:16:04
Speaker
with so much shame over my inability to show up the way I would have wanted it to, I think that was part of the part of the thing that kind of kicked me in the butt, to be like... I don't know, people need support, um even in these leftist spaces that are supposed to be so safe and healthy and all these other things, which I mean, I know that we know they're not, but i think that was part of it.
00:16:28
Speaker
That was part of what kicked me into, i i don't know that I want to keep doing this anymore, the keep with the politics and the nonprofits and and all of this. I wanted to be more on my own and I wanted to work one-on-one with people in our movements.
00:16:45
Speaker
people our marginalized people.
00:16:49
Speaker
Would you say though, you imagined any other way that could be done?
00:16:56
Speaker
What do you mean? Like, we're like not choosing to be a therapist. Yeah. Like, Oh no. i to and to be honest, I don't know that I felt like I had,
00:17:09
Speaker
i just don't think I have the people skills. necessary to survive in any kind of field that requires politicking.
00:17:21
Speaker
And not that our field doesn't.
00:17:25
Speaker
But it doesn't in my practice. I'm a private practice when I'm the only one, right? And I know I have people skills. It's not that. It's just I just don't. I didn't think I had the energy or the skills to work for corporations or anything like that. So no, it to in my mind, there were no other options.
00:17:47
Speaker
This felt like the path for me.
00:17:51
Speaker
It's interesting to hear you talk about it because, you know, often you hear with therapists just the philosophy of why people do this is the term wounded healer.
00:18:08
Speaker
And sometimes people argue that like, if you weren't like, you know, fucked up in some way, then you wouldn't become a therapist. which is always an interesting argument to me because I'm like, well, this holds true in any other field. Right.
00:18:24
Speaker
And, um but there are people who need support everywhere. And i do feel like it takes a particular kind of something to decide to do what we do.
00:18:39
Speaker
and sometimes I'm not entirely convinced, at least for some of us, that it's the most informed decision. It could be like, certainly i talked about choosing between law school and this.
00:18:55
Speaker
And for me, it was because I felt like the law school path required me to do potentially a lot more of the things that I didn't want to do, which was like be in a position to actively harm people.
00:19:10
Speaker
Not that we're not in this position, right? right But at the time when I was in my twenties, we were convinced by programs that that wasn't something that we could do.
00:19:25
Speaker
And that harming patients, clients was something that was like an abstract conversation and not something that was like talked about in any sort of meaningful, reflective detail.
00:19:38
Speaker
um And in my program, but I know many programs. And so there is a part of me that sometimes wishes I had a sense of like how heavy the work would be.
00:19:56
Speaker
um And not that you don't feel that in your clinical training, but you have all of the structure. right The supervision. Yeah. And yeah we like we'll and talk about bad supervision, but...
00:20:09
Speaker
from there's still a structure and there's no one saying when you get out, okay, this is what you do and this is how you do it. And I had to go through some really messed up stuff before I arrived at I need my own practice.
00:20:24
Speaker
And even though other mentors had said, you should start your own practice, you should start your own practice. Nobody said, this is how you do it. um Right. I, at this point have now helped in some way or another, five different friends start their practice. ah Sorry, go ahead. You look like. no Yeah. And beyond that, yeah, I was one of them.
00:20:47
Speaker
And then I helped. some of my mentees and some of my own friends do the same for that reason that you mentioned. you know No one's talking about how um i think so much is gatekept in our field. yes like like There's some kind of competition to be had when really there's enough for everybody and there's a niche for everybody and there's no, I don't feel the need to compete with anybody.
00:21:11
Speaker
um And so, it's everything you taught me. I turned around and taught my mentees in the cohort below me. Yeah. And it's not just access to knowledge, but also an emotional thing that has to happen for you to make that choice, especially for those of us who are more marginalized.
00:21:34
Speaker
um And like, this is what my coaching is around these days is like that and the ableism that has to be addressed in order to make this choice.
Challenges in Therapy Training
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah. But yeah, I think I think i didn't realize like how much of like my own stuff, personal stuff, would come up in the work. And i even though I got some of that in my training, especially from like more and psychodynamically oriented folks, the amount of...
00:22:09
Speaker
oppression that goes on even within that theoretical orientation and all of the others um left me with a lot of unlearning that I feel like I've had to do. And as I've been unlearning, um I think that's where I started to have this question about like, are we as clinicians making an informed choice?
00:22:34
Speaker
What does that even mean? What does informed consent to be a therapist look like? And how do we, and I got to tell you, because I've been nervous um because you never know, right? Who's going end up listening. And um like, how do we how do we tell people the reality of being a therapist without people hearing oh my God, it's impossible and I can't do it. And my therapist hates doing this when that's not the case at all. You know what I mean?
00:23:04
Speaker
yeah Yeah. i don't, and I don't really know. i think becoming a therapist is transformative. And if it's not, you're not doing it right. That's the right thing to say.
00:23:17
Speaker
The way that my nervous system has been transformed for the better, you know, recognizing how many things, I was saying and doing out of being stuck in fight, flight, freezer, fawn, you know i think that's probably one of the most valuable things I've learned as a therapist. But you know going back to what you were saying about private practice, I tried doing agency. I tried it at first.
00:23:47
Speaker
And the first taste I got, I got flashbacks. I'm like, this is the same as a nonprofit with the specific agency at the time I had tried to work on. I'm feeling this need to politic.
00:23:59
Speaker
I'm feeling this need, hierarchy. I'm feeling this like tension I don't like. And that's when I think you and my supervisor were like, why are you doing this? Like, cause I was still working part-time at the nonprofit. So I actually really could take the risk cause I had a stream of income for better or worse.
00:24:19
Speaker
And I could focus on starting my little private practice, but yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about though, and you said something like you're worried about how people will hear this.
00:24:34
Speaker
And I want to respond to that, but I'm also like curious about why you would worry.
00:24:48
Speaker
Like, so what if they do? Um,
00:24:56
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, that's a very good question. i mean, which is silly because my initial thought is I don't want someone to think it's a horrible job and they shouldn't do it. But that's up to them to decide, right? any Any job is going to come with pros and cons.
00:25:16
Speaker
Right. Well, I think that's what I mean about the informed consent. Right. Like someone said this in a in a workshop I was in once, which is that like the interesting thing about therapy is you you don't really know what's going to happen to you.
00:25:31
Speaker
Right. We have informed consent, but what that process ends up feeling like and looking like is so unique to each person that you actually don't know what's going to happen to you. And I would argue the same is true for being a therapist.
00:25:44
Speaker
Yeah. That like the most that we can say is you cannot be prepared for all of the things that are going to happen to you or inside of you. And and.
00:25:59
Speaker
and If it sounds like heavy work, it is heavy work. Like I don't, i
00:26:09
Speaker
I don't think someone telling me that would have necessarily changed my choice. Yeah. But I think it would have influenced how long it took me to get to making decisions about and in my business that were also in my best interest.
00:26:27
Speaker
Yeah. Because I think. Because we're trained to. Believe that sacrifice is the only way. To provide healing. That many of us end up pouring. From an empty cup.
00:26:41
Speaker
Because we're not trained. How not to do that. And I think. If. Sort of the weight of the work had been made clear to me. I wouldn't have had to suffer through some of the things. I've had to.
00:26:54
Speaker
that does not mean. that like therapists are full of endless, endless, abundant compassion or anything like that, right? Like we got frustrated, like normal people, we're still normal people. And so I think what's is nice is like being able to be honest with a client in a moment and not pretend because it's not useful for them for us to try and occlude and be like, no, I'm fine.
00:27:23
Speaker
Like, because sometimes we feel strong feelings because we care. And that does not mean the message is be abusive. That is not the message here. but No, no, no.
00:27:35
Speaker
But I have had moments where I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm feeling really frustrated right now because like, you've, you've been really struggling with this and I, and I care and it's hard to see you hit your head against the wall.
00:27:52
Speaker
Right. How do we, how do we collaborate on this to get you to a different place? Right. And so I think like, I didn't feel like I could do any of those things until I was like running my own practice.
00:28:04
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I can't even really compare because I never, I have run my own practice this whole time and I do, you know, work a certain percentage of time with an agency, but it's run like a private practice. They really just provide referrals and do the billing.
00:28:23
Speaker
um So I've never not had that experience, but I mean, I know in grad school, they tell you a lot, be a clean slate, don't react. I find some of the most powerful moment moments in therapy with my clients is when I do react, huh right?
00:28:37
Speaker
Because, I don't know, maybe someone said something horribly abusive and they were gaslit by everyone else, but I'm the one saying, what? hu What?
00:28:49
Speaker
You know, having a human reaction to that, but. Yeah. So I think like and there are ways in which, and i think this is what you're kind of alluding to, right? That our training trains us to respond in ways that aren't human, that aren't,
00:29:08
Speaker
in community that are from a very wyt supremacist perspective about what healing looks like.
Journey and Transformation in Practice
00:29:14
Speaker
And that's another like thing that I did. I wasn't prepared for, and I did not really get the extent of it until like I was accessing spaces where everyone is dedicated to decolonizing their work.
00:29:32
Speaker
Right. And so I know we're like a little all over the place because I didn't answer my own question, which is that, you know, i well, I did say I had considered other careers. So law school was was one of them.
00:29:47
Speaker
um But what I haven't said, which you reminded me is for listeners, like um I still do some agency work. um I work in a court setting, a juvenile court setting.
00:30:00
Speaker
And that work is very rewarding for me because I'm working with a lot of some of our most marginalized, systemically oppressed kiddos ah who are in the system.
00:30:13
Speaker
and trot And my evaluations work. often, not always, but often play a role in moving them out of the system and to the supports that they need to have.
00:30:24
Speaker
And that's work that like, yeah, there's politicking that comes with it. But I've also become a little bit, not a little bit, I've become very irreverent, especially after it's funny because like I was only in that terrible job for 11 months.
00:30:38
Speaker
I want to be clear. So i actually I've been running my practice for five years, six months at this point. Wow. And I think I feel perfectly fine being a irreverent because I'm like, well, if something happens, I still have my business. Like, I don't care.
00:30:58
Speaker
But also, i know I'm very confident in my skills at this point. Like, I know what they are. i know that I do good work. And so, you know, I'm not over here trying to blow everything up
00:31:08
Speaker
but I am that person who's often advocating, saying, like, we need this policy, we we need this procedure, but you know, usually stepping in something and somebody's usually mad at me. But, like, I feel pretty inoculated because I'm just like, you actually don't have any power over me.
00:31:25
Speaker
like Plus, when are we not making someone mad? Yeah. When is someone not mad based on all the identities we hold and based on the way we show up, someone's always going to be mad no matter what. So you might as well do what you need to do for you and your clients, the people you serve.
00:31:46
Speaker
Absolutely. And, and for me, ah for me, it was important to not be completely wedded to a system. Um, and somebody might be asking like, well, you convinced, like you helped convince like five friends to start their own practices. Like, you know, why didn't you blow out like full time? And at the time, at least it was because I just didn't want to like, right I, for me, i I wanted to be doing different things and,
00:32:16
Speaker
ah serving different groups of people. And so that was just a choice that I made at the time. um And right now where I am as I'm pivoting to really more assessment work, which has ah for me a heavier hitting impact because I know my assessments are very good, but also the coaching work, um particularly for folks in this field is that
00:32:43
Speaker
creating, helping to create a system in which folks feel like they have everything they need to do this job and do it well and do it from a place of authenticity is kind of where I'm at right now.
00:32:57
Speaker
um And I've had various health issues, as I've referenced previously, due to um different dynamic disabilities, which just made me have to shift in my practice. Well, so I actually wanted to ask you about that, right? Because as we were, you know, having the conversations about this podcast, we talked a lot about using mental health practitioner versus therapist. And like, what where, at what moment did you look around and say, I'm not therapist anymore? And why?
00:33:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that was important to me because i've i I joined a networking group. ah I guess it would be maybe two and half-ish or a few months, whatever, years ago now.
00:33:43
Speaker
But I was in that group for like two years. And it was probably like the most capitalist thing I could have done. And I'm not criticizing anybody who chooses to do it. But I was clear when I came in that I was offering coaching and consulting services.
00:33:59
Speaker
And no matter what I did, people kept sending me therapy referrals when I had made it clear that I was full. I had a full caseload for what is a private practice, half time.
00:34:12
Speaker
And I'm like, this is not where I'm at anymore. And part of that was because i held so much during COVID, particularly working with children and adolescents.
00:34:23
Speaker
I negotiated ah clients in and out of the hospital um for suicidal ideation or attempts for just constantly for almost four years.
00:34:34
Speaker
That I was just like, I cannot be this available, especially with my health worsening. um Once I got COVID, the first time I'd say things went downhill from there. And I already had like additional medical stuff, but that really kind of tipped things.
00:34:53
Speaker
um And so it was like, I have to shift. because I'm not in a place where I can show up for people in the way that they need, because the work can be incredibly physically demanding. yeah um And so that, was and and I wasn't exercising some of the skills that I know,
00:35:12
Speaker
have a bigger impact on people in a shorter amount of time. And I was like, why am I not doing this? You know, it works. and will help me create a more flexible schedule for myself, but also still allow me to have that impact with people.
00:35:28
Speaker
um And so, um there were multiple layers but going into this networking group was part of the shift that I was trying to make and I got so frustrated and I did a lot of things like I was like okay like we're trying to do some DEI stuff and like you know everybody's like what is that like and I just got so tired of
00:35:54
Speaker
being put into the box over and over and over again when I was like, i am i've been I'm being very clear. So when we decided to do this, I did not want to use therapists because there are so many licensed mental health providers who were not doing therapy specifically.
00:36:16
Speaker
um Many of us do do coaching. Many of us do consulting. Many of us do testing. And
Transferable Skills and Personal Impact
00:36:21
Speaker
we're still clinicians. um And i wanted to be able to represent the folks who maybe are at where I was and are like, how do I make that change?
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah. Because it also includes reconciling loss. Mm-hmm. because there were clients of mine I had been seeing for seven years that I had to tell this decision to.
00:36:50
Speaker
um And that was really hard. It took me longer than I would have liked to arrive at the point that I needed to. And I don't want it to be that anybody feels like things have to be really bad before they make that decision.
00:37:05
Speaker
When I say bad for me, it was like my physical health was like and in terrible shape, really, really terrible shape. So it's a long answer to the question, but that's why it was important to me to be intentional because I wanted it to both represent both of our experiences and where we're at in this journey. And that when people hear psychologists or social worker, marriage and family, they're like, they put you in a box.
00:37:34
Speaker
Oh, hundred percent. yeah And sometimes that box is because it's about what they want from you. who not about what you want for yourself because everybody is in need therapists.
00:37:48
Speaker
And it's getting worse, right? but And coaching technique typically has a pretty, like, iffy reputation. um But there are those of us who are very qualified out here doing that work.
00:38:02
Speaker
um And it allows us to be a lot more flexible. And I don't have to be bound by insurance issues and limitations on where people can be when I see them.
00:38:14
Speaker
Right. though it just, it it allows me to offer... a more decolonized service. um And I was tired of, you know, um being able to do that.
00:38:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There's so much more freedom in that. Yeah. Yeah. So that, that, that's the reason, you know, that's the reason. son um But relatedly, I think it's important for us to talk about, cause like I'm talking about pivoting within the field. Yeah.
00:38:45
Speaker
right? um Or two adjacent fields. But I think it's also important to help people think about like, we have so many transferable skills that don't have to be in any adjacent profession, right?
00:39:03
Speaker
And so if I had to ask you to think backward, let's just say you were moving from therapist to nonprofit work. What were skills that you had that are translatable to this work?
00:39:16
Speaker
Or, well, you still have. and From therapist to nonprofit? Yeah. Like, if you have to translate it backward, like, what would you say? Oh, for sure Identifying systemic issues.
00:39:29
Speaker
i think moving away from blame and moving away from finger pointing into, like, what are the systems available here that are... um creating issues, which I do believe is actually a role a lot of MFTs play.
00:39:45
Speaker
I think they're called um system consultants or something like that. um i I could be off on the name, but yeah, nonprofits hire specifically MFTs for their systemic perspective to address some issues in their work, or maybe not even just nonprofits, just corporations altogether.
00:40:03
Speaker
um Treatment planning, case management, um I don't know. Well, I mean, I'd say like human relations. Human relations. Yeah.
00:40:16
Speaker
um Yes. Strong writing skills. At least in my case, I do a lot of writing ah for my reports and things like that. um Being able to do group work.
00:40:29
Speaker
Yes, leading groups. Absolutely. Because a lot of teams, like even for corporations, whatever, you know, they want process groups, maybe something has happened, and they want to bring in somebody as a consultant to help with that issue.
00:40:42
Speaker
Like, if you've done a lot of group work, which I have done group work quite a bit in the past, like, it's amazing to come in and do a process group for an organization and see it, like move people, you know, so I think like,
00:40:58
Speaker
for anybody who feels like and for anybody who feels like they're, you know, well, if, what if I don't even want to do this? Like it is fully possible to choose something else.
00:41:11
Speaker
Um, and sometimes we're not, no, I wouldn't even say sometimes, at least me, I wasn't taught to think about my transferable skills. Yeah.
00:41:21
Speaker
Or even, i mean, low, low hanging fruit in terms of you basically already mentioned this, but coaching. Yeah. Coaching. um I, for a little bit, was doing um immigration evaluations.
00:41:34
Speaker
That was really great. i'm not doing as much anymore. i don't think any particular reason other than I'm just not getting that many. um but that is an option too. Yeah. Although now, who knows? I mean, who knows?
00:41:48
Speaker
Who knows? I have an idea of why my referral sourced dried up, but that's a different um story. But yeah. Yeah, so there's a lot of different things you can do for sure. And it's interesting, though, where you are in your journey, because I'm fully in my therapist mode. Like, I am a therapist. I love that identity for myself right now. It does come with Right? Expectations that people put on you. Fuck. I'm not single right now, but fuck being single yeah and being on dating apps and saying you you're a therapist.
00:42:19
Speaker
Oh, my God. People always have something snarky to say. Are you analyzing me? No, bitch. I charge by the hour for that. Right. I'm like, are you paying me right now?
00:42:31
Speaker
No? Okay. like Let me be a person. Oh, also, though, this gets into the things that like I didn't expect before. You know, I talked a little bit about cultural and societal expectations. And I know you were just talking about dating, but it reminded me too about family.
00:42:46
Speaker
yes i am It's convenient for me to be a psychologist when it's convenient for my family. Yes. And then other times they either forget about it or hold it against me in some way because I'm saying something or whatever. And I you know i want to say this. I love my family.
00:43:08
Speaker
And it's also true that sometimes I feel like people talk about the profession in my family as if I don't do the job. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Or i feel like I get treated as if I'm not being a normal person.
00:43:23
Speaker
Not just my family, it's happened with friends, too. yeah Like, I had a friend say to me last year, like, I want you to, like, respond more like a normal person.
00:43:34
Speaker
And I'm just like, what the hell does that even mean? Right. And I found it to be really frustrating because I'm just like... I actually think that being a clinician has made me a better person.
00:43:47
Speaker
Oh yeah, for sure. I feel like i'm more present with my friends. I'm also better able to advocate for what I feel like I need in friendship. And for me asking a friend how they feel about something is not about being a therapist to them. It's about creating space for them to have feelings.
00:44:10
Speaker
The compassion I have now for people I maybe wouldn't have had before. And now I'm not saying I don't set boundaries.
00:44:18
Speaker
i i will There are certain people that simply are not allowed to have access to me. like yeah They're not. um But my compassion for the way they might react or behave, right?
00:44:31
Speaker
Now when I see a Karen, I mean, I'm still pissed about it. i still have a lot to think and say. But now my thought is, what is going on in this person's life? That they're behaving the way they're behaving towards a stranger or whatever. I don't know. There's more to be said about that, right?
00:44:48
Speaker
Privilege and oppression and all that. But just in general, just the ability to recognize, like, oh okay, my partner is very dysregulated right now. The things coming out of their mouth...
00:45:01
Speaker
oh are being informed by a nervous system that's trying to keep them safe. you know And so being able to slow down and create that space for people outside of the therapy room, again, with appropriate boundaries, has also been something really important.
00:45:17
Speaker
I appreciate what you said about the appropriate boundaries part, because I feel as though I've gotten, again, better at setting those boundaries than I was before, right? Because there is something about providing support to certain people and also being consistent with that in the way you live your life,
Advice for Aspiring Therapists
00:45:34
Speaker
right?
00:45:34
Speaker
And there were ways in which I used to try to be anything and everything for my friends. And then, One day I was like, yeah, this is this ain't working it for me. And if I want to tell clients, like that that's not working for you. like What am I over here doing, right? Right, exactly. I think it's helped me better express myself and be like, you know I love you. And also I'm just not going to deal with that. you know And we can go our separate ways from here or you can do with this information what you want.
00:46:05
Speaker
And we can work on it as friends or whatever. But yeah, i definitely think it's... um it's transformed me in a lot of important and meaningful ways. So as we kind of close out this conversation, i'm going to ask you like the cheesy question. Okay. What advice would you be giving to folks who are listening who are potentially either clinicians in training or maybe they are, you know, seeking a career pivot, like similar to yours?
00:46:43
Speaker
um What would you say? And would you tell them to not do it?
00:46:50
Speaker
I would not tell them to not do it. um I think I would be honest about the impact. And i think I think my answer is going to be a little bit cliche too, but I think it's an set up your self-care as early as possible, but also be flexible in adding more or adjusting what you're what your expectations of your self-care are.
00:47:15
Speaker
Because you you just can't do it, right? Like, you know, I'm not going to be up late on the night before I have clients. Like that might sound really boring to people, but I want to be well rested on days I have clients. That is a non-negotiable for me. I want to be able to be present.
00:47:38
Speaker
I think having a solid support system, having a good therapist yourself, I think is super important. um
00:47:50
Speaker
And I think taking time to find the right supervisor is important too, which I'm sure we'll have a whole conversation on supervision. but yeah, I think those would be my main ones. Like stop figure out what your self-care needs are now and apply them now and ah and be flexible enough to change them as you see fit.
00:48:09
Speaker
um And I guess also the other thing is like, Sure, explore, try on different types of clients, try on different types of modalities.
00:48:20
Speaker
But if you know something is not for don't let the gatekeeper shame you for it not being for you, right? I tried, um I'm an MFT who does not see couples or families.
00:48:34
Speaker
Part of it is because I felt my training is insufficient in those specific topics, right? The other part of it is, sure, I could have gathered more experience while I was under supervision.
00:48:46
Speaker
But I tried. And it just wasn't for me. i don't i don't enjoy working with couples. I don't enjoy working with families. And I had to create space to for myself to not feel shame about being an MFT that doesn't work with couples or families.
00:49:03
Speaker
Right? So don't don't feel pressured to do ah do work that you don't want to do. Yeah. What about you? No, I would echo that last point for sure um And sort of amplify to say that I i think this is my personal opinion.
00:49:21
Speaker
I do think it's important to specialize. you Agreed. If you are everybody's therapist, then you're nobody's therapist. And I say that because as much as I loved my previous therapist, at some point,
00:49:38
Speaker
their generalist training was not enough to do the depth work that I needed. And maybe like they were fine for other people, but well like for me, I'm just like, people deserve the best care you can offer. And if you don't specialize, it means that you're not giving the best care that you could be offering to someone.
00:50:03
Speaker
There is something about diving deep into a specific area um that allows you to maximize your impact. And that doesn't mean you can't have multiple specialties. Yeah. Because I'm out here, like, I got all kinds of specialties, right?
00:50:18
Speaker
But that's just me. um I think it's important to be intentional about who you're servicing. So I'm echoing that last point. But also, yeah, I used to work with families, at least in my private practice, and I don't anymore after, like...
00:50:34
Speaker
having someone, you know, parent be really verbally abusive toward me. And it was like, I set a lot of boundaries and that was still occurring. And I'm like, I can't, I can't, like my nervous system was just like, I can't hold all of this.
00:50:49
Speaker
yeah And I work with family still within the context of the court setting, but that feels a lot more contained for me. I'd say, i'd say Along with caring for yourself, which is how I prefer to say it.
00:51:08
Speaker
um Love that. Being clear about your energy levels, too. I underestimated I truly underestimated how fried I would be at the end of a clinical day of back-to-back clients. And so i would like not schedule anything in the evening on those days.
00:51:33
Speaker
And I had, uh, acquaintances, shaming me about that and I'm like no that's just not the day I come out like if you want to see it's gonna have to be on another day and if you don't get it then you don't need to be here right yeah so I think like not letting you want to make sure to have a life right like but not feeling like you have to sacrifice the things that are important to recharge your battery because of other people's expectations for you.
00:52:04
Speaker
ah Exactly. Yeah. And I wouldn't say to anybody, don't do this. um But know that it is not for the faint of heart.
00:52:17
Speaker
Yeah. and That's what I would say. And I don't i don't regret the decision at all. I think if I had any regrets, I wish it was that I had access to more knowledge about what would be the steps on my journey, potential steps.
Reflections and Closing Thoughts
00:52:34
Speaker
Not that anybody could predict my journey, but that's why I've been so passionate about giving and like providing this knowledge and support to other clinicians because I'm like, you do not have to suffer the way I suffered. You literally don't have to. It is not necessary.
00:52:51
Speaker
yes I'm always excited when I hear about how you're feeling about things in your practice because like that's exactly what I want for people, you know, that yeah it feels good and you feel like you have what you need to do it.
00:53:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I love that. I echo all of those as well. Yeah. So ah we are at our breathing break. You wanna it for us, Ksera
00:53:17
Speaker
Oh, would you like me to today? I would like you. I want to breathe. ah That's okay. Yes, of course. So as usual, we want to and are going to practice what we preach and remind you to pause.
00:53:33
Speaker
This could take the form of a deep breath or just placing your hand over your heart and locating your heartbeat during this time. If you are breathing, you can close your eyes if you'd like and take a deep breath in through your nose.
00:53:48
Speaker
Two, three, four. Hold. Two, three, four. And exhale. Two, three, four.
00:53:59
Speaker
Like you're breathing through a straw. Again, inhale Two, four. Hold. three, four. hold two Three, four.
00:54:11
Speaker
Exhale. Two, three, four. And as you keep breathing, just know that you can always vary that breath if you want. If you find breathing too dysregulating, you can always return to your heart.
00:54:24
Speaker
So, Blanca, what is a moment of joy and or thriving this week for you?
00:54:36
Speaker
I think I'm going to go with thriving. And I am on my third week of being off social media. Yay! It's hard. I am keenly interested in Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively drama, which I cannot get being off social media, but that's okay. I found podcasts that have been talking about it, and so I've been getting my fix.
00:55:03
Speaker
um It's been interesting. I'm still trying to adjust. One, how I'm going to spend the time I'm not spending scrolling.
00:55:14
Speaker
Trying to figure that out right now. It's Logic Puzzles You can play video games. I did download Stardew Valley. Yes. can't decide if I like it, but I and only barely started it.
00:55:26
Speaker
um And of course, reading is always number one on my list. So I'm going to be heading to a library sometime this week to get my Libby going. love Libby.
00:55:37
Speaker
Huh? I love Libby. Yeah, yeah. So I got to get my my my library card reactivated. yeah, it's been mixed. ah Joy and grief being off social media, but I'm spending a lot of time wondering, right, like, if I refuse to go to Chick-fil-A because of their anti-gay stance, and I refuse to go to Starbucks because of their anti-Palestinian stance, why am I still on meta products?
00:56:05
Speaker
You know? I have not come to quite the decision because we'll be using Instagram for our own work.
00:56:15
Speaker
Joy and thriving. Joy and thriving. That's right. Okay, yeah. So just leave it at being on social media has been kind of, it's been a mixed bag, but overall it's a gift. And I'm just adjusting myself to life off social media for now. So we'll see what that continues to look like.
00:56:34
Speaker
um yeah you me sarah Ksera so um my reading device died ah last year in November when I was in Iceland, and i um which is because I didn't really need to be reading at the time. But I finally have decided on a replacement for is divorced from the Amazon machine, ah which is the Kobo, Kobo Clara, black and white.
00:57:05
Speaker
um It's made well, the company is in Canada, but like it's in partnership with a company called Rakuten that's based in Japan. But one of the things I love about it is that um there's just more,
00:57:18
Speaker
And the comparison is like Android versus iPhone situation. Like there's more customizable, customizability of the Kobo in terms of being able to sideload books and things like that and integrate without having to go through like with Kindle. I think it's like a whole bunch of,
00:57:37
Speaker
Amazon nonsense, but whatever. So um that's coming on Thursday and I'm very excited because as you know, I've been doing all of the fanfic and ah I've been reading on my phone, which is not good to do before bed.
00:57:51
Speaker
noticed the difference. And so I'm looking forward to having that device so I can continue to read fanfic.
00:58:01
Speaker
Definitely keep me posted on that. Cause I also want to abandon the Amazon machine. Yes. But I feel unfortunately attached to the hip of my Amazon reading device.
00:58:16
Speaker
Luckily, my last one was given to me and i did not pay for it and I refused to do that. So I was like, yeah, need something alternative. So yeah, that is my...
00:58:27
Speaker
Moment of joy that I am extendedly looking forward to. And on the weekend, I've been playing Dynasty Warriors Origins on PlayStation, ah which my geek self is very happy about.
00:58:40
Speaker
Very geeky. Indeed. Yes. love that. We look forward to seeing you or here or wherever you are our next episode.
00:58:51
Speaker
Until next time. or a next episode until next time Bye.