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9. Called to...Getting & Keeping Clients
15 Plays8 days ago
Mentions in this Episode:
In this episode, we discuss how power and subjugation is wrapped up in how we solicit and are able to maintain clients.
Instagram: @mothersagainstgen0cides (change the zero); @inclusivetherapists; @cteacconsulting @theantiableistdoc (Dr. Dyette’s other business pages)
Our Instagram is @calledtohealing. We are no longer on Spotify, but you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Zencastr, and YouTube for our video episodes.
Join our Patreon at: patreon.com/calledtohealing.
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Music: Calypsonian by Eshi Era (Standard License) Check out their Artist Profile here: Eshi Era
Until next time. REST easy.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Call to Healing Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Called to Healing. We are two mental health practitioners on different parts of our professional journeys. Come together to have conversations our training left out. From cultural identity to wyt reign in our field, we're showing up despite it to spite it.
00:00:19
Speaker
Hello, hello. Welcome.
Acknowledging Indigenous Wisdom
00:00:22
Speaker
We our we are on our
00:00:28
Speaker
ninth episode, which is wild to think about. ah Would you like to introduce yourself? Yeah. or Hi, everybody. I'm Blanca. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist in the state of Nevada.
00:00:45
Speaker
And I am Dr. Ksera Dyette pronouns she, her, and I'm a licensed clinical psychologist in the state of Massachusetts. And we want to acknowledge as we do every episode that we are settlers, occupiers on Turtle Island, and we acknowledge the wisdom of our ancestors past and present who have stewarded this land for generations.
00:01:11
Speaker
And as you ah see in all of our show notes, we have information about land back initiatives and how you can see the land that you are occupying if you're here um on Turtle Island and how to provide any financial support to those causes.
Impact of Global Events on Mental Wellness
00:01:29
Speaker
So what are we doing? today. How are we feeling?
00:01:36
Speaker
oh man. I guess like for some context, as this is going to come out later, it was a over the weekend that
00:01:45
Speaker
had i i mean Trump bombed Iran. iran um So that's where we're at. The freezer raids are continuing along with all the unaliving
00:01:57
Speaker
I know for me, I'm okay. im okay I'm okay. I'm doing the things to take care of myself and show up. I've been doing a lot of coloring, a lot of coloring. um And I'm being, you know, I think I'm being held together by tape and glue, but I'm here.
00:02:18
Speaker
What about you, Ksera are you doing? Yeah, i I'm okay enough. I was talking with ah sort of another social justice oriented colleague over text and was just sharing with them about sort of how I move in and out of moments of dissociation as well as like moments of feeling grounded in my purpose.
00:02:41
Speaker
Yep. um Both in my professional work, but also in my personal life. And that is what is sustaining for me, as well as just being blessed to continue to have access to moments of joy and thriving as we talk about on our show, which is really important for us as people who have dedicated our lives to a healing and helping profession.
00:03:07
Speaker
um And that the world is still doing the its thing while we're also doing these things. um And we've acknowledged just on previous episodes, but our check-ins about what's happening contextually in the world will always be necessarily delayed because we are we record ahead of schedule in terms of our episodes.
00:03:31
Speaker
So just know that our contexts are constantly shifting. And we're aware of that.
Authenticity for BIPOC Healers
00:03:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:39
Speaker
But here we are, despite it, to spite it today Today, we're talking about something a lot of PGM healers ask us about, which is how to get clients, how to keep them, and how to do both without losing our authenticity in the process.
00:03:56
Speaker
We wanted to have this conversation in the same foundation as all of our prior episodes, which is through examining power, privilege and oppression and the role in these clinical duties.
00:04:07
Speaker
So to speak. So. Before that, yeah I actually just thought of something. This is totally off script. If you don't want to talk about it, this is fine. But I actually think it would be useful also for us to just talk about just with the context of this conversation about getting and keeping clients like the recent conversation that we had about the dissonance that comes with.
00:04:32
Speaker
the work that we're doing and the things that we're talking about and how it fits in into this conversation. I don't know if you feel okay. Let's just talking about that together. Yeah, let's do it.
00:04:44
Speaker
Yeah. um So I know you had texted me. I think I was away at a conference um and you were sharing just sort of, well, you want to talk about what you shared?
00:04:58
Speaker
Are we talking about the social media stuff? ah Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We had a plan um to post about our Patreon and about donating to our podcast the week the freezer raids ramped up in California. And it felt...
00:05:23
Speaker
i don't know. it just didn't feel right to be posting about that with what was going on. And so I think the dissonance that Ksera is talking about is like trying to find the space between
00:05:39
Speaker
doing what we have to do every day and then the tremendous grief that comes with what's going on in the world.
Balancing Advocacy and Business
00:05:46
Speaker
um I mean, we you know, we shared resources and acknowledge what was going on, but ah for me, it felt like, what am I doing right now?
00:05:55
Speaker
Why am I planning this post right now? Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate you sharing that because I think I told you at the time to like I had also thought about it and I had been thinking about it similarly for weeks as I was kind of in a bit of a grief space.
00:06:12
Speaker
um And i also said that I see like this is another way that we are connected to conversations about subjugation and privilege and social healing which I think also need to continue to happen.
00:06:31
Speaker
And that there is sometimes a moment of like feeling as though, and this was not like a critique to you when I shared it, like that when we start saying that certain kinds of subjugation is worse than others. And so therefore we shouldn't talk about X it, and which I don't think is what you were saying. Right.
00:06:52
Speaker
um It was more like, I see our podcast as like another fight yeah that we have, And it may seem weird because it's also talking about business and sort of like this capitalist frame that we're forced to work in that we can't escape from and being authentic decolonized healers in that regard. Yeah.
00:07:20
Speaker
And i can both hold that that may feel like an insignificant conversation juxtaposed against the also really terrible things that are happening. So that was what I was thinking that like,
00:07:34
Speaker
the moment that we feel like we're going to be silenced or we need to be silenced is like a moment where we have lost. um And it's also true that I think we are fully allowed to tap in and out as we need to when things don't feel right or aligned.
00:07:52
Speaker
um For sure. And I definitely tapped out. I have deleted apps from my phone for right now until we have, you know, our new clips and stuff to post because...
00:08:06
Speaker
I was absolutely scrolling nonstop and it was not helping um anybody. But me.
00:08:17
Speaker
so It was helping me.
Forms of Resistance Against Oppression
00:08:19
Speaker
and my wow Yeah. And I, sorry, I didn't mean to cut across. I was also thinking about the fact that like, I have like three different Instagram accounts and the one is like my original business account.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah. And that's where I share all of the resources um that are being posted by amazing people that I follow. um i don't need to reinvent the wheel. And so I try to amplify and center that as much as possible.
00:08:44
Speaker
yeah and so it does kind of feel weird because our podcast Instagram is... posts on that page, but it's separate from that. And so I already feel like I share resources in other places. It's not like discontinuous thing.
00:09:01
Speaker
um Yeah. But yeah, um I think I said to you that like, you can tap out. It's okay. I'll pick this up, you know, and that like knowing that collective liberation means that like we could do that, right? That like you can say I'm out right now and I'm like, okay, I'm here.
00:09:21
Speaker
yeah that that's something that we could move in and out of as needed. Not to mention, I think one of my favorite things that I've seen on social media, it was posted by Mothers Against Unaliving but I believe they reposted it. I just can't recall the original creator.
00:09:37
Speaker
But they were talking about how resistance is not a one-line highway. um And we need all different types of resistance. And this podcast is a form of that, right?
00:09:49
Speaker
is it Is the podcast in the streets blocking freezer agents? No, because it's a podcast. Right.
00:09:58
Speaker
But talking about how wyt dominance is embedded in our field is a form of resistance because we're not being quiet about it. um We're actually, it's actually the main point um in the podcast. So I don't know for what it's worth. I think that's really sat with me.
00:10:15
Speaker
And that has also been key in supporting my clients through a lot of this is just reminding them like resistance is not a one-lane highway. There's other ways to show up, other ways to resist, other ways to support.
00:10:29
Speaker
Speaking specifically for clients who maybe were have different types of disabilities or different types of marginalizations where they didn't feel like they could or were safe enough to show up to some of the demonstrations and stuff like that. So don't know for what it's worth.
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah. And that resistance, it's not a one-lane highway. Mm-hmm.
Attracting Aligned Clients
00:10:50
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And I think like what this connects directly to the conversation that we're going to have today um and slight early spoiler, because I was just thinking about like a recent um somebody who sought out service recently for assessment.
00:11:08
Speaker
And they scoured my my social media. um My website is down right now, not intentionally, but like they specifically sought me out because they know that I would be a safer person to see.
00:11:21
Speaker
And that is important to me. That's important to me. And if this helps with that, um I think, you know, i never started this for soliciting people, but it is nice to know that people like this matters.
00:11:37
Speaker
This matters. Right. Absolutely. But yeah, so let's, we we'll kind of backtrack a little bit. yeah We'll get back to this stuff. But where are we right now in this conversation?
00:11:48
Speaker
We are, let's get started with, you know, talking about our first experiences and getting clients and things like that. So if you don't mind putting yourself in that mindset, Ksera thinking about like your yeah early lessons, do you remember how you got your very first client?
00:12:08
Speaker
Well, my um Journey was not linear as much of my story isn't. ah I started at a large group practice, which I've mentioned in prior episodes.
00:12:21
Speaker
And i was fired from that practice. And we were not technically not allowed to solicit old clients. But when I started my business, those people found me And so a lot of the people that I started with were actually people who I used to see in the group practice who just waited and kept Googling, kept Googling um until, and I got a call one day from a mom whose kid I used to see. And she was like, have you opened your practice yet? Dr. Dyette we've been waiting. And I'm like, yes.
00:13:01
Speaker
And so really my, my, my practice started with people who I didn't know if I would see again, not because I wasn't confident in my work, but because the practice had made me feel so small that I was like, maybe I'm not a good therapist.
00:13:18
Speaker
oh um And so those were my first folks. But after that, people found me through my website. Mostly I did have a psychology today profile for
00:13:32
Speaker
um Like six months, like a six months free trial that came with my malpractice insurance. And I think only two people reached out to me through there.
00:13:43
Speaker
Everybody else found me through Googling and I got a lot of like, we really liked your bio. Yeah. Which talked about intersectional feminism and sort of my story and the relationship with like conflict and tea because cup of tea counselling was the original name and how that sort of conflict, especially being where I was from, was a colony.
00:14:09
Speaker
um the embracing the complexities of that was the reason for naming my practice the way I did. and so people felt like parts of my story resonated with them.
00:14:23
Speaker
And that's kind of how like things started, I guess. I think one thing I want to highlight just in, in, in again, in, in keeping the thought of the episode topic in mind,
Early Practice Reflections
00:14:36
Speaker
getting and keeping clients So it sounds like your first experience really with getting clients were ones you had already established really good rapport with.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah. Right. and And I only want to highlight that part because I think it's really relevant and we'll come back to it. um For me, I, well, if we're talking about first, first ever, ever, ever client, it was a client that was assigned to me
00:15:04
Speaker
at our a university clinic. Once we went out into our community practicum, this is when we're working for free and a local therapy office or agency or whatever it might be, whatever your individual case might be.
00:15:22
Speaker
But for that, we were allowed to open our own Psychology Today pages that we had to pay for. so again, not only am i working for free, I'm also advert i'm paying to advertise myself. um And I got a client almost right away.
00:15:34
Speaker
um I think of her fondly. um I don't recall if there was one specific thing she said.
00:15:46
Speaker
That attracted me um to her via my profile, but my profile has not changed very much since then. And it very much mentioned intersectional feminism. It mentioned systems of subjugation um and the fact that, you know, um I myself experienced subjugation as well.
00:16:07
Speaker
um But yes, I think I would say like on my own, my very first client came through Psychology Today for me. Thinking back again to when you first started it started, is there anything that you tried that didn't work?
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, again, I don't think it was intentional per se, but I was not as good of at screening new people as I became.
00:16:41
Speaker
And i ended up with folks who weren't the best fit for me at all. And I think a lot of this was coming from a place of like scarcity mentality and survival because I had ended with the group practice in that activated place.
00:17:02
Speaker
And there was definitely an element of feeling like, oh, if I don't, take this person, I might not have business or um I felt like I needed to accept everybody who was a good fit clinically, not necessarily thinking at the time about people being a good fit in terms of alignment with who I am and my identity.
00:17:27
Speaker
And I was definitely less authentic and more colonial in my practice in that regard to start with. And I ended up with some awful cases, which I'll be vague about it because i don't,
00:17:46
Speaker
I personally have a really hard time with people who talk about their clients, ah ah past or present without their permission. ah i see a lot of clinicians do that sidebar and it bothers me. But anyway, um I ended up with some cases where like overtly racist things were going on and I had to address it.
00:18:06
Speaker
So what didn't work is how I was showing up. Like even though my website looked a certain way, I don't think how I was recruiting and screening and then deciding was aligned with that because I didn't know another way to do things.
00:18:21
Speaker
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And I mean, and part of that is just kind of trying things and figuring it out. Right. i would say similarly for me, um
00:18:35
Speaker
What didn't work was accepting cases or clients that I knew weren't aligned or a good fit for me, but doing it one because of the scarcity mindset, but two because of supervisors saying, try it or do this. When like, if I know I don't want to work with kids, why do I need to try working with a kid?
00:19:03
Speaker
you know, or whatever the case might be. For me, it's couples. i I did try it. I tried my hardest. It wasn't for me. And I knew from the beginning, wasn't quite sure it was for me.
00:19:15
Speaker
But I took those cases out of encouragement from various supervisors, which on the one hand, if it's, if you're a student and you're learning, there's only one way to learn. But on the other hand, i knew, um and I wasn't given that benefit of the doubt.
00:19:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. or Anything that you were afraid of when you were first starting out?
Fears and Embracing Values
00:19:37
Speaker
I think I was constantly afraid of
00:19:43
Speaker
getting a malpractice claim against me. Yeah. ah Not because i was I was doing anything wrong, by the way. But again, in these really early toxic cases that I had,
00:19:55
Speaker
like when I was being more direct or clear about my boundaries, like I had somebody threaten to file against me. And especially because I was exercising what I thought was my clinical judgment about a case being explicit where I thought that like I could not be helpful.
00:20:16
Speaker
It's I don't think I can help with this. I actually recommend this instead. and I understand that you may not agree with this, but this is why. And um yeah, there was certainly backlash for like acknowledging the limitations of my own abilities, which they tell us to do.
00:20:35
Speaker
Right. um But people get really enraged when they face that. And there was a lot of entitlement that came along with the wyt folks.
00:20:46
Speaker
Right. who were not aligned. ah And so that was a constant fear. And I was worried again, because of how people ended up coming to me that I would somehow get blamed for that.
00:20:59
Speaker
um And I was scared of sharing my story. because of what had happened. I was constantly fearing like retaliation.
00:21:11
Speaker
so those are the things that I was worried about, which not doesn't necessarily like it's parenthetically related because like I said, the starting clients were folks from that old practice, but I did not actively recruit them.
00:21:24
Speaker
I just worried constantly that something bad would happen as a result because of how badly I had been treated. So those were my worries. um Yeah, they were less maybe different than what you might expect. But I don't know what yours were.
00:21:38
Speaker
Well, I think I think I'm going to go in a little bit of a different direction. And I think I'm just going to be really honest. I think I was afraid people wouldn't like me. oh or I was afraid i you know, i think I was afraid to put myself out there as like a political therapist at first. And by political, I mean, I just like have stances and that they are, you know, I i believe systems of subjugation impact our lived experience and affect our mental health. like I was, and that we were,
00:22:13
Speaker
You know, as we talked about in previous episodes, indoctrinated into the whole blank slate thing or like, you know, being really gentle in your in your profiles. And I was trying the exact opposite. And so I was a little bit afraid of what that would look like.
00:22:28
Speaker
And part of me was afraid that maybe the agencies I was at. wouldn't appreciate it. It wasn't an issue. It never came up. It got me all of my clients, even as a a student in my, once I was in my community practicum as a student, um, I got maybe one or two from the agency. And then after that, I filled out on my own from my psychology today page. And it's kind of been like that ever since.
00:22:50
Speaker
Um, I use other pages now in addition to psychology today, including inclusive therapists, Latinx therapy and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, I think I was afraid of really putting myself out there the way that I wanted to, but I did it anyway.
00:23:04
Speaker
And I think it really paid off. Um, for me, it really, it really paid off. Yeah. Well, you mentioned directories. um i Once my psychology today expired in that six-month trial, I never renewed it, and I haven't been on any listings.
00:23:24
Speaker
I tell people this because people believe you have to have them, and you don't necessarily. ah Sometimes your website can be enough or even, like,
00:23:35
Speaker
your EHR, if they offer a website along with it, like just, it's just a page with, you know, so for me, it's always been like being clear in my messaging, right?
00:23:48
Speaker
about the kind of clinician that I am that has helped me get clients not necessarily being listed. And even though I do still accept insurance, which a lot of folks don't, but I have renegotiated my rates.
00:24:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. um I found that my referrals in the past have not come from the insurance companies.
00:24:16
Speaker
Those usually die in my inbox. Like I'll respond and then never hear anything. And it's only really to assessment that I get responses.
00:24:26
Speaker
But yeah, Literally, I would say for the past six years of my business, it has been 100% my website, not social media. And I didn't start social media to recruit people.
00:24:37
Speaker
It was just for educational purposes. And what's funny is I'm the exact opposite. My webpage is just the one page that comes with my Simple Practice account. um And I've gotten all my clients from mostly Latinx therapy.
00:24:53
Speaker
um I would say more than half. um I do get a bit from psychology today. um i don't love them. And ah have gotten enough business from them that I...
00:25:07
Speaker
I don't know. I think I'm in a place where I could let it go, but maybe that's for like a Patreon episode where we can talk about like how we feel about psychology today and getting off from it and or like, you know, all the things. ah But what's interesting is for me, it's been the exact opposite because Ksera has given me all the tools I need to set up a good website and do the search engine SEO stuff.
00:25:29
Speaker
And I just haven't done it. um so mostly because I haven't needed but I want to because I do want to get off psych today. um ah something to think about for sure.
00:25:40
Speaker
But oh sorry. No, one what I was gonna say is like, even what you just said is important, right? Because I tell my clients to because I, you know, i coach therapists, I'm like, you don't need a website.
00:25:51
Speaker
Like you don't. Because you could have the nicest looking website in the world. but But if people can't tell who you are and where you stand, it doesn't really matter.
00:26:02
Speaker
And there are people for the people like that. They're just not our people. So I just wanted to put that out there because you don't, you know, don't need to do it.
00:26:14
Speaker
For sure. and And I will say though, i lately I've gotten an increase of requests um through inclusive therapists for people specifically looking for a therapist that's anti-unaliving ppl
00:26:25
Speaker
um So I will say that I do think, you know,
00:26:31
Speaker
you have to make it clear who you are And I think that is going to do more than whether you do a website or you do the directories. As long as you are putting yourself out there as who you are, people want that. People want that authenticity.
00:26:44
Speaker
But I think we're, we're spoiler alert. So ah thinking about like getting seen and things like that, is there anything that's helped you consistently get clients
00:26:59
Speaker
think
Authenticity and Visibility Risks
00:26:59
Speaker
it's the same thing being consistent and it's hard, you know, we can't talk about this without talking about what it requires internally of you, right? Like it requires a lot internally to show up in this way um to get those aligned clients.
00:27:25
Speaker
And taking a stance which is very much like the opposite of how we were trained, as you mentioned. yeah And I've had to do a lot of internal work, right, to say, like, am I okay with the possible repercussions of being visible in this way?
00:27:45
Speaker
And it's a constant, I think what if I was supported sort of to think about the question of like what works, it's to continue to have the check-in with myself about where I'm at with that question, especially because it's an even more different question to answer now than it was when I started in 2019.
00:28:07
Speaker
The world is so different. It's not, it's it's exposed And it's also different. Like both of these things are true. um It's not as, I don't even want to use the word safe because i like I never felt safe, but like it's not, it's less safe.
00:28:26
Speaker
So that's the language that I have access to at the moment. And so i just want to like note that what we are talking about has its own risks.
00:28:40
Speaker
In what ways is that conversation different for you now than it was in 2019? Yeah, I hear you. It's not as safe, but the conversation you have with yourself, how is that different?
00:28:52
Speaker
I think what is weighed is different. Like the the actual conversation is usually like, am I comfortable with continuing to be in showing up in this way?
00:29:05
Speaker
What are the risks of doing so? What is the harm that I invite upon myself as a result of it? And not just to me, but potentially other people that I care about.
00:29:16
Speaker
And I think that part of it weighs more heavily than it did in the past. And I've had friends around me like say like they um just been sort of ducking out as much as possible in order to like preserve them and other people they care about.
00:29:37
Speaker
And um i don't begrudge them that decision.
00:29:44
Speaker
And if I have to live in this world,
00:29:51
Speaker
I, I, for me, I need to continue to figure out how to show up in a way that feels okay enough and know that like, okay enough this week may feel very different next week.
00:30:06
Speaker
And I just keep having that conversation with myself. I don't know if it's looked very different, but what I've had to weigh is either heavier or more present.
00:30:22
Speaker
I don't think I've had those a that kind of conversation with myself about changing the way that I show up. But I do think.
00:30:33
Speaker
I mean, I have privileges because of my skin color, so I wonder if that might be why it hasn't even occurred to me.
00:30:44
Speaker
I'm sorry, I'm trying to wrap my head around like, I mean, for me, it didn't it hasn't occurred to me to change how visible I am because i just, i think I feel very
00:30:59
Speaker
safe I guess safe enough in the fact that my clients are really well aligned and they're looking for me and they're looking for people with our perspectives. um So I feel pretty safe in that.
00:31:12
Speaker
I'm not going to lie. There were times when I still had an office where the intrusive thought of like, is someone going to hate my profile and then just show up and have something to say.
00:31:23
Speaker
But I guess that i kind of filed that away in the same way that I file away.
00:31:34
Speaker
if I go on a walk at night, a man might jump out of a bush, right? Like it's it's just one of those things. And I, I think it's kind of sad actually that it's to the point where those kinds of dangers are real and I just disassociate from them. I just put them away. Cause like, well what else am I going to do Right.
00:31:51
Speaker
So I don't know that I've had that same conversation with myself that you have. I feel safer now that I'm fully telehealth for sure. Yeah.
00:32:02
Speaker
yeah I don't know if I directly answered your question, but yeah, I think, I think more or less that's it. Yeah. I mean, you answered it in the way that is true for you. Right. Yeah. um I think for me,
00:32:16
Speaker
it's a necessary and and intentional part of having been visible in my practice for so long that I have this conversation with myself, um, in an ongoing way.
00:32:28
Speaker
and I'm very aware of like the ebbs and flows of my comfort because my decisions don't just impact my potential clients. It also impacts like my family and my friends, uh, these days and more so than ever.
00:32:46
Speaker
Um, and it it weighs on me. It weighs on me. And I also feel like it's necessary because I need to know like what my body is doing with that information.
00:32:59
Speaker
and I think because I've dealt with chronic illness for such a long time, there's a constant, conversation that's happening in my mind that's also about my body. Right.
00:33:11
Speaker
And, and, you know, that makes me want to add right to anyone listening, like we're having these conversations, but we don't by any means believe that this is black and white. Right.
00:33:22
Speaker
I just, because I've chosen to show up the way that I've chosen to show up and it's been beneficial to me in my practice doesn't mean you or anyone has to. Right. I think that,
00:33:33
Speaker
You know, one thing you said to me, i think when he shoot who shall not be named, quote unquote, won the election in November is, um and and what i what you said to me, I repeat to my clients all the time, literally, that what we need doesn't just change by the day, it changes moment by moment, right? And so ah that applies to this too.
00:34:02
Speaker
right? um Maybe it feels really good right now, but maybe I'll change that. and Who knows? Who knows where we're headed? Who knows what's going on? I might have no choice but to change how I show up on those pages for my own safety and my own protection.
00:34:16
Speaker
um But anyway, the I'm sorry, I got lost in the sauce. But the thing I wanted to say is like with anything, you have to mitigate your own sense of risk. And if it is too risky to show up this way, i think that's perfectly valid. And there is no judgment in that. So just because we're saying we show up in this way, doesn't mean we think it's the only way or the best way. It's just what's worked for us.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. yeah So then in just thinking about like keeping clients and avoiding burnout, um how do you how do you manage that?
Sustainable Therapy Practices
00:34:55
Speaker
What systems help you stay emotionally regulated across sessions? um How do you manage boundaries? How do you approach retention? Yeah, i
00:35:10
Speaker
I think I know it is easier when your clients are aligned. This was a much harder thing to do when they weren't.
00:35:21
Speaker
And I want to be clear, if it isn't already, that when I say aligned, I mean not just clinically, right, but like values alignment, right?
00:35:34
Speaker
And that does not mean we share all the same values. That's not the point. We're not looking for people who are necessarily like us per se, but like, I am not the therapist for the straight cis het wyt person who I have to listen to complain about their Brown partner.
00:35:56
Speaker
Right. Like that is like, I am not the therapist for that person. Right. I'm the therapist for their partner or I'm the therapist for like the queer neurodivergent, you know, wyt woman maybe, right? But like, I sort of live in the intersections and the margins in my work.
00:36:18
Speaker
um And some of those intersections and margins reflect my lived experience, which is where I feel like most invested and experienced in not just um lived experience, but it also like my training and what I've chosen to pursue and learn about.
00:36:38
Speaker
And it feels different. it feels different. It really does. It feels absolutely different to sit with those folks than the ones you know. Like, they're going to say something real raycst ah in this hour, not just more than once. And you're going to be like, do you see what's happening here? And call those I will call those people in, right? But like,
00:37:03
Speaker
the Like the the rage and the blah, blah. I'm like, no, that's not that's not for me. So I think like when I was starting to shift my practice to be um primarily folks who were Blketal people the global majority or like neurodivergent folks, um sitting through those sessions felt different.
00:37:27
Speaker
um And that helps me manage burnout quite a bit. um And that's okay. Like, we don't have to be everybody's person. Like, people get real mad about that. And I'm like, no, no, but there's a therapist for you.
00:37:44
Speaker
Just like there was a therapist for me when I was looking for my own therapist. We're not meant to serve everybody. and i And holding that boundary is super important for me.
00:37:56
Speaker
Um, I think it took me a little while to get to the point where i was a little bit more direct about certain opinions that I had in my practice.
00:38:10
Speaker
And that was important to me. Um, and then there's a structural things that I try to do to manage, um, like how my day is set up.
00:38:23
Speaker
how many people I'm seeing, the space that I have between them. um There was a time when I worked six days a week and that was never sustainable.
00:38:35
Speaker
Why is this a thing? Because there was also a time I worked six days a week.
00:38:41
Speaker
Why? Because here's why. Here's why. Okay. I don't know if this is the real answer, but this is my answer. Okay. Because we are,
00:38:52
Speaker
First of all, indoctrinated into believing that our caseload has to be a certain amount. Then if you add the insurance brouhaha on top of that, it forces us into that.
00:39:05
Speaker
And so then people not they only they not only have their therapist job, they may have a side hustle or they have their therapist job and they're seeing like 35 to 40 people a week
00:39:16
Speaker
Which is crazy to me. Like, and I know some people can do that. Like, there are people. There are people. So I am not knocking those people and power to them. Right? But, like, nobody teaches you about renegotiating your rates or being strategic with insurance companies or even how to have, like, economically just sliding scales that work for you and your clients.
00:39:38
Speaker
Like, these were all things I had to learn. as I blundered along. And as I learned those things and I applied and incorporated them, I was able to actually create a schedule that was far more manageable, that was, you know, and the capitalist language, more profitable, but also a lot more inclusive.
00:40:02
Speaker
Yeah. But it's just the way we where were, it's what we're told is right. yeah Right. And that's wild that you say that because that's literally what was it like we had planned to talk about too in a later segment is like, what messages do we get as Blketal healers about success or scarcity? And I think I co-sign everything you said, especially about the working six days a week.
00:40:25
Speaker
But for me, or and for me, working the six days a week was feeling like, okay, I need to have a Saturday appointment and I need to have evening appointments and I need to have appointments for the... No, you don't. Yes.
00:40:36
Speaker
yeah You do not, babe. Like if you... If a client has to have an appointment at 9 a.m. on Saturday and you don't work 9 a.m. on Saturday, that is not the client for you and that is not the therapist for them.
00:40:51
Speaker
And that is okay. I think... Speaking of, i like, one of the things that my biggest pet peeves about this industry is the gatekeeping that we do. Like, one of the things that I've taken, because Ksera helped me open my private practice.
00:41:08
Speaker
Like, she gave me all the paperwork. She gave me everything. everything I needed to know to get started. Then I took all of that. And then I gave that a version of that to my mentees to help them because no one else was talking about how to do this or how to get this set up.
00:41:24
Speaker
And it's the same thing with clients. Like I have yet to feel like I'm in competition with anybody. There's not one. Imagine if we lived in a world where there was one therapist for every one human on the planet.
00:41:39
Speaker
Impossible. There's so much need. There's so much need. I have yet to feel like I need to compete with clients or ah compete to get clients or or anything like that. And it's that we do get this message. And I think we get this message because of wytness and white dominancy
00:41:56
Speaker
You know, I think
00:42:00
Speaker
Maybe some folks, I don't know, this is not, I don't want this to be a blanket general statement, but if we're talking about maybe some folks who don't put themselves out there exact as they are, who can't or won't, if they struggle to get and keep clients, of course it feels like there's a scarcity.
00:42:18
Speaker
Right. Right? But like, that's because these folks are leaving for people who maybe are more aligned or... are I don't know. I really struggle with this because I don't want to sound critical of anybody.
00:42:31
Speaker
yeah But I do think that a lot of the reasons why I'm able to get and keep clients is because I am as I am. Right. And if you tell me your ex from six years ago texted you, I'm going to be like, oh, my God, what?
00:42:46
Speaker
What did he say? How did you feel? Let's get into this, girly. Yes, I want to see that. I want to see the chat. You don't you don't have to read it to me. Hand me your phone. I would love to. or you know, um i am getting sidetracked. But no, but you so hold on. You said something that I wanted to piggyback over whatever they say. But like.
00:43:08
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, just this morning I was seeing a client and they were saying something. And was just like, no, no, no, no. I want to stop you right now because I'm like, we are not. Like, we are not.
00:43:20
Speaker
ah Right? And I'm not going to let somebody sit and spiral just because I was told I got to hold space. like And I do hold space, FYI. It's just that if I see somebody going into something that we've gone through like over and over and over again, I'm not going to waste their time.
00:43:38
Speaker
by waiting for it to play out when I have the ability and the tools to help support them right now in this moment. Right. Like, and again, somebody might hear that in a micro shot and think like, oh, well, do you not hold up?
00:43:51
Speaker
That's not what I'm saying. That's not what we're saying. Right. Right. I move in and out of what what my what I think my people need in my authentic, fully authentic self. And what you mentioned before. Oh, my God.
00:44:04
Speaker
What was it that you mentioned? Because ah the listings thing, the listings thing, because, yes, I know you don't want to sound judgmental and and. When I'm coaching people, one of the things that I do is I look at their websites and their profiles because these are the things that I'm looking for.
00:44:22
Speaker
Can somebody tell, if not who you are, like who are your people? Right. If I can't answer that question because I'm combing through walls of text about theory and explaining every type of intervention and you feel like you've got list every certification under the sun.
00:44:48
Speaker
I'm like, think about what it is like for your potential client to experience that. they're reaching out because they're trying to find some sort of something that lets them know this is the therapist for me.
00:45:02
Speaker
And I think we spend so much more time thinking about listing all of our qualifications and Because for some folks, not all, but for some folks, it's feelings of inadequacy.
00:45:14
Speaker
For some folks, it's that's what we were told to do. Nobody actually teaches you how to, quote, market yourself as a clinician, right? But, like, I don't see people thinking about their person.
00:45:29
Speaker
So even if you are not showing up, like, authentically yourself because of safety concerns or what have you, how can you show up in a way that your person knows that? You're their person.
00:45:40
Speaker
Right. I hope that's clear what I'm saying. like it It's clear to me, but I do think about it. Like, take take a perusal of your zip codes therapists. Mm-hmm.
00:45:52
Speaker
You, if you remove those pictures, like you wouldn't be able to tell one profile apart from the other one. I'm sorry, but you can't. Right. So you have to find a way to make yourself stand out and it's not going to be through. I'm certified in this, this and that. They don't care. my clients have never given a fuck. Right.
00:46:14
Speaker
what certifications I have. They care that I make, that they feel connected to me. They care that it feels like a safe enough place. They care that they can show up as they are. i don't care if you're showing up with makeup or you're showing up in pajamas.
00:46:32
Speaker
I don't care that your chronic pain is so bad today that you had to smoke a bowl right before session. i don't care. and And that's what the clients care about, right? Not that I have an EMDR certification.
00:46:46
Speaker
um They don't. No, they don't. Yeah. And I know that may sound blasem blasphemous to folks because some people do look for certain like sure certifications, interventions. Like we're not saying like, that's not a thing that people look for.
00:47:00
Speaker
It's just ah like, if they have to distinguish through the masses, right. How can they tell? Right. Right. How many people are trained in X and you got to figure out, well, which one is the one I want to reach out to?
Work-Life Boundaries
00:47:14
Speaker
Yeah. ah That's really what we're talking about. yeah Yeah, exactly. and And getting a therapist that's properly trained is really important. So if you are looking for like, I want to do EMDR. Okay, you know look for a therapist that's trained in that ah for sure.
00:47:29
Speaker
as we get ready to kind of start wrapping up a little bit, one question I really wanted us to get to is what would you say to a new Blketal therapist or healer who's scared they won't make it
00:47:46
Speaker
It depends on why
Advice for New BIPOC Therapists
00:47:47
Speaker
they're scared. Because like if you're scared, you won't make it because the world is a terrible place. I'm like totally valid. Like I have not knocked anybody who have decided to exit the profession.
00:48:02
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. That is fully like a decision you're allowed to come to. um But if you find yourself scared because of some of the things that were we've mentioned, like I really would encourage you to think about like How is it linked to subjugation that you've been, like you've experienced in your training or from supervisors?
00:48:29
Speaker
I mean, that internal supervisor, which is something I talk about a lot in my coaching, like that person makes up a lot of our inadequacies, like especially if we have a lot of, we've had a lot of bad supervision.
00:48:43
Speaker
um And there are resources. They exist. You don't have to figure it out all by yourself.
00:48:55
Speaker
um But yeah, it feels like an amorphous question because I'm like, well, what what's the reason for being scared? Like, I would want to ask that person. Right.
00:49:06
Speaker
Because I was never scared I wouldn't make it in my business. Like, or would not succeed. i was scared I wasn't cut out for running a business.
00:49:19
Speaker
And that's speaking to a specific group of people because we're not trained for business ownership, which is its own skill set.
00:49:31
Speaker
But there might be people who are listening to this who are in a group practice or um some other setting that's not our type of setting. Yeah.
00:49:45
Speaker
And in those spaces, I really would sort of challenge you to think about like, in what way is the question or the ah fear linked to the ways you're not able to show up as your authentic self?
00:50:01
Speaker
Or you were told that you couldn't. And when I say told, I mean like, Obviously, I mentioned getting fired from a group practice, right? Like I was I was showing up as my authentic self in that practice.
00:50:15
Speaker
Right. So I'm very well acquainted with the dangers of doing so. so you don't say any of this lightly. ah But yeah, I don't know. That's my loose associations to this question. I don't know if you had thoughts about it.
00:50:30
Speaker
No, I know. I had the thought of like not us asking direct questions and being therapists or mental health practitioners and not being able to answer it directly because we have a million other clarifying questions to get to it. I mean, I think I was scared.
00:50:45
Speaker
I was scared that I wasn't going to make it. And by that, I mean like be able to make a living out of being a therapist. Yeah. And this isn't going to be the perfect answer or the answer for everybody. But the way that I think about it, like if I had a marginalized person tell me they were worried about this, I would say, don't worry.
00:51:07
Speaker
Yeah. Because I think that, I think, think about all your intersections. Think about all our intersections, right? I am a first generation Mexican-American feminist, child-free by choice, no interest in getting married person.
00:51:30
Speaker
And there's people who hold those same or similar or adjacent intersections who want a therapist that can relate to those intersections. So there is someone out there struggling with ADHD that wants a therapist who struggles with ADHD and knows what that's like or any neurodivergency.
00:51:50
Speaker
I think the same thing about intersections of race, gender, ability status, all of those things. They're looking for therapists like you, right? And they really are.
00:52:03
Speaker
And I know because I hear it all of the time. I hear all the time, my last therapist told me I need to cut off my family, but that's not going to work for me as a Latina, right? Or clients who, you know, struggled with body image, who refused to bring it up to their last therapist because at any mention of weight or body image, they were offered low fat.
00:52:27
Speaker
recipes in return, right? There's people out there who are looking for exactly who you are and what you bring to the table. Now, of course, the challenge is they're finding the safety to show up in that way and the agency that will support you in showing up. the So again, as always, nothing is black and white, but that that's what I would say.
00:52:46
Speaker
That's what I would say. It's like there is someone out there who is looking for you as a therapist. Right? Yours was much more eloquent than mine.
00:52:58
Speaker
but What you made me think about. was like, went like something you said earlier, which when people tell me when they come to me and they're like, I have a business, but I'm not getting clients.
00:53:11
Speaker
And they think that that's somehow like an external factor, right? Something outside of their control. I'm like, it's absolutely not because there are too many people who need support, who cannot find it for that to be a true statement.
00:53:27
Speaker
And like, And some people who are these folks are people who who would take insurance, right? So it's not like it's all about every therapist has gone to cash pay or anything like that.
00:53:41
Speaker
It's just the waters are murky um about if you're the person for those people. And and I think, yeah, like there's too much a need for that to be the problem that you're going to have.
00:53:55
Speaker
Like those are not the things I would worry about. At all. It would be all the other things that we talked about more than that. Yeah.
00:54:07
Speaker
And so just a recap, be yourself. yeah um Of course, with proper, you know, ah consideration for risks and the ones you're willing to take and the ones that you're not.
00:54:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:26
Speaker
What else? What's another takeaway? Yeah. It's both about you and not about you. Right. Like the part that's about you is the part that's about what relationship do you have to your own authenticity and what that means as a professional.
00:54:44
Speaker
And those are not going to all the way contextually align for various reasons and decisions that you might have to make. um But it does matter for the communication that you're sending to the people who are looking for you.
00:54:59
Speaker
The part that's not about you, and this is important to me always, is that that doesn't end up in the room eclipsing the needs of your person. If we're talking about like the, the keeping part, right?
00:55:14
Speaker
Like I can still be me. Blanca can still be her. our person's needs still matter in that endeavor. um So that's what I would say.
00:55:28
Speaker
Totally agree. And for our listeners out there, if you have your own tips or tricks on getting and keeping clients, please go ahead and share those with us. We're happy to share them on social media for folks who want to hear.
00:55:40
Speaker
can DM us on Instagram and you can email us called healing podcast at gmail.com. Yes. You can also support us on Patreon where if you want us to take a look um at your listing, we can do that and give you some feedback, which is a little bit of taste of Ksera business.
00:55:57
Speaker
um And there's other ways to consult and work with us through our Patreon. So be sure to check that out. Yes, and offer discount codes for some of our consultative services on that Patreon, a service of your choosing.
00:56:13
Speaker
i forget which subscriber level. It doesn't matter. Y'all could go check it out. but Yeah, yeah. Ksera do you feel about um bringing us back to our bodies today? Yes. Are ready for that?
00:56:26
Speaker
Yeah, I'm absolutely ready. So if you, the listener, are ready, We're going to have a moment to get called back to our bodies. Whatever you're feeling right now, tense, inspired, grieving, invigorated, it's all okay.
00:56:45
Speaker
Let it be. You don't need to fix anything. Just pause. Now bring your focus to one small point inside of you, your heartbeat.
00:56:59
Speaker
You don't have to feel it right away. Just notice. Somewhere deep inside, your heart is still beating. Steady, quiet, working for you.
00:57:12
Speaker
If you feel restlessness or tension, let it be. Let your heartbeat become your anchor. quiet rhythm beneath the noise.
00:57:24
Speaker
You are safe to pause.
00:57:28
Speaker
You are allowed to feel what you feel. And underneath it all, your heart keeps going, strong and steady. Stay with that rhythm for just a moment longer.
00:57:44
Speaker
And when you are ready. Gently come back to us for a moment of joy and thriving this week. Blanca, what's your moment of joy and or thriving this week?
00:58:03
Speaker
I think. A Moment of Joy, i think, has been a coloring book. I got a coloring book. i I've just, I've loved it. I've colored like six pages in two days. um I think that's been helping me a lot. And in terms of thriving, out of just making plans for, you know, the next nine months in my life and what that might look. Oh, nine months makes it sound like I'm pregnant. I am not pregnant. Yeah. I just mean nine months because that's just what it is. I'm thinking about making a major life change that'll happen in March. And so now I'm working on some of the, you know, logistical stuff that'll help me thrive then. So my moment of thriving is planning for more thriving.
00:58:45
Speaker
What about you? Yes. ah Well, my, I had a couple of moments of joy. Over the weekend, because I went to strawberry festivals, which I actually remember them from when I was younger. But for some reason, the entire time I've been living here, i didn't, I haven't done that.
00:59:04
Speaker
And I realized that I didn't know how to be a person after graduating.
00:59:10
Speaker
For more years than I feel comfortable admitting. Yeah. This is my second year in a row and i learned my lesson from last year. So I was prepared. I had like my freezer bag with ice and a container for them and picked 15 pounds of strawberries Wow.
00:59:30
Speaker
Washed, cut, blitz, frozen, stored. um And so now I'm planning my recipes. I'm going make strawberry shortcake um and a gluten-free recipe. So we'll see how this goes.
00:59:47
Speaker
And, oh, gosh, strawberry matcha lattes. um I was just going to say, if you're not making strawberry matcha lattes, I'm so mad at you. I got a beautiful set for um the holidays that I'm looking forward to using and then preserves, preserves, which I did do last year.
01:00:11
Speaker
I have a lot of strawberries in my freezer. If I go grocery shopping, I have room for nothing else.
01:00:18
Speaker
and So that that brought me a lot of joy and specifically dressing up with my friend for this. So I wore a strawberry dress with strawberry earrings and a necklace and a bracelet. And I had, well, my Afro is my Afro, but I figured out the second day if I put a green scrunchie in it, then I look like a strawberry.
01:00:36
Speaker
that's so cute. cute. so That made me really happy. i love that. This is a strawberry podcast. We love strawberries. My partner calls me his little strawberry because I just love strawberries so much. It's so cute. It is adorable. I know. It's disgusting. But yeah, this is now a strawberry podcast. So please join us for our next episode where we talk about strawberries. Okay.
01:01:04
Speaker
stra strawber more
01:01:08
Speaker
Oh, goodness. Called to strawberries. Called to strawberries. See you next time, everybody. See you next time. Bye. Bye.
01:01:25
Speaker
Thank you for joining us on our journey. You can find us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Please leave us a review and subscribe. You can email us at calledtohealingpodcast at gmail.com.
01:01:38
Speaker
You can find us on YouTube and Instagram at Call to Healing. Sign up for our mailing list, book us for speaking engagements and consulting, or donate to support this endeavor at our one-time donation link in the show notes.
01:01:51
Speaker
You can find even more goodness from us on Patreon at patreon.com slash called to healing. Keep in mind our views are our own and do not represent any organization we may be a part of.
01:02:02
Speaker
Even though we're both clinicians, listening to this podcast does not constitute a therapeutic relationship or clinical contract. If you hear anything that resonates with you in crisis, please seek the help of a trusted provider or the resources provided on our social media page.
01:02:17
Speaker
And remember, you're made for more than just healing. You're made to thrive. Until next time, rest easy.