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Carl Davison
208 Plays4 months ago
In this episode Michelle chats with Carl Davison.
Carl is a member of the UKRunChat community who enjoys running for his mental wellbeing. Carl shares how he transformed from a non-sporty school kid to an avid runner, whose story began with jogging on a Wii Fit, eventually leading to an ultramarathon.
Michelle and Carl chat about:
- parkrun
- favourite running books
- cold water therapy
- mental health
- strength training
Follow Carl on Instagram
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
ukrunchat
Hi Carl, thank you so much for joining us on the UK Run Chat podcast today. Would you like to introduce yourself to our listeners?
00:00:07
Carl
Yeah, of course. yeah Yeah, my name's Carl. um I'm just an ordinary runner, really. Somebody who likes to get out there and and go running. I saw UK and ukrun chats, and Instagram post about asking if people would fancy coming on and I'll send you guys a message, yeah link to my blog and yeah, and here I am.
00:00:29
ukrunchat
Yeah, no, it's lovely just to have people who wanna come on and chat to us, so thank you.
How Carl Started Running
00:00:34
ukrunchat
and So yeah, let's start with what inspired you to first get into running then. Tell us about when you started, how long have you been running for?
00:00:40
Carl
Yeah, well, my my story, and I'd hear a lot of different sort of blogs and and reading different posts and stuff by different people about how they got into running. and And mine's pretty, probably quite similar to a lot of people's, you know, but back in school, I wasn't really a sporty kid or anything like that. I didn't like cross country, any sort of sports. I like riding my skateboard and riding my bike.
00:01:02
ukrunchat
you.
00:01:02
Carl
And that was probably the the the most amount of fitness I ever used to do. But it would have been 2011. um i yeah I had a hernia. So a hernia in my groin. So I ended up having eight weeks off work. And at the time I was working in retail. So always on my feet. So never had to do exercise or diet or anything like that. And and was you know still a sort of like 32 inch waist. ah So that that was fine.
00:01:32
ukrunchat
and
00:01:33
Carl
But after having eight weeks recovery after my surgery, I went to go back to work and I couldn't do my trousers up. I put on quite a bit of weight. I put on over a stone in those eight weeks. um So um at the time, we had a Wii Fit. um Other consoles are available, I'm sure. and But I started getting on that. And one thing I started to enjoy doing was the um was the jogging on the spot.
00:02:00
ukrunchat
Yeah, okay.
00:02:00
Carl
and So I did more of that, a bit more distance to a few more distance, like getting the sweat. And I was just like, you know what? I'll go outside and go for a run. And that first run, it near enough killed me, you know, just grabbed a pair of trainers and a tracksuit, bottoms and t-shirt.
First Half Marathon and Early Races
00:02:16
Carl
But, um, but yeah, I just kept going for it, kept going out, going a bit further, a bit further. Um, and as ever it escalates. So the, the next year within, well within a year, um, I'd signed up for a half marathon. So I did the, um, the, the, I think it's the great Eastern run, which is like the Peterborough half marathon.
00:02:31
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:02:37
Carl
And I did that in 2012, so it was my first half marathon. And then the year after that, um we were raising money for the NSPCC through work and they were wanting people to do things. So I did the Lincoln 10K, then I did the Boston to Skagnessee bank marathon, which was the last year that they did that. And then I did the Peterborough half marathon again as well. And that was 2013. Joined a gym. Literally, I think it was, I think it was the second day after that half marathon that the local leisure center it had a revamp and they they had a gym in there. So I joined the gym and then I've been to the gym a few times in my early twenties with my teenage years, sorry, with an old friend. And um so I just started lifting weights and using the machines and stuff like that. And yeah, the running ended up kind of taking a backseat for a couple of years.
00:03:34
Carl
because I got really into weightlifting. And I'd go out for the odd run as a little bit of cardio. and But then in 2016 at work, they got a team together for to do the Lincoln 10K again. um And that was for Help for Heroes. and So I decided to start training again. And literally, I think since 2016, I haven't looked back.
Discovering Ultra and Milestone Races
00:03:57
Carl
It's been all about the running.
00:03:58
ukrunchat
Thank you.
00:03:59
Carl
In 2018, I then um discovered it was trail running magazine when they were still producing magazines, I think they're just online now, um had a run 1,000 miles challenge. So it was run 1,000 miles in a year.
00:04:14
ukrunchat
i wear hand Yeah.
00:04:15
Carl
So I signed up for that.
00:04:16
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:04:16
Carl
And I'd been doing that um ever since then.
00:04:16
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:04:18
Carl
And then I think it was 2018. I'd signed up for an ultra as well. I thought, you know what? I'm doing all this running. I'm going to obviously just did a 50K. So you know yeah yeah the beginner ultra that everybody tends to do.
00:04:27
ukrunchat
Hey, I like how you say that, Carl.
00:04:30
Carl
yeah Well, it sounds better than 30 miles.
00:04:31
ukrunchat
It's never done to me again.
00:04:33
Carl
So if you say 50k, it sounds more impressive. But um but that was um the Jucary's 30. They do a 30 mile and a 40 mile version on the same day. So I think the 40 miles is a little bit more of a loop.
00:04:45
ukrunchat
Yeah, i've I've done that one.
00:04:45
Carl
And yeah, it's great fun.
00:04:46
ukrunchat
It's a really great event actually, isn't it?
00:04:49
Carl
and The wheels kind of fell off ah just before marathon distance.
00:04:49
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:04:54
Carl
And I think it ended up being about seven hours it took me to do that.
00:04:55
ukrunchat
right
00:04:58
Carl
because it was a but A lot of trails on that one, so obviously they always take a lot longer.
00:05:02
ukrunchat
yeah they do
00:05:02
Carl
And I think that was, and then and and after that I did um what's called the Spires and Steeples Challenge, which is Lincoln to Sleaford, which is where I live in Sleaford in Lincolnshire. and And I've done that twice. And then the next race I did was actually this year, because obviously COVID happened after that. And and then I didn't do any races until this year.
00:05:26
ukrunchat
Yeah, it didn't.
00:05:28
Carl
ah I haven't done that many races but and but yeah so yeah I think that takes us up to today that's kind of my running journey is it all the way along oh yeah I'll tell you what happened because it actually popped up on my memories on Facebook the book Born to Run I read that and that kind of just reignited that
00:05:35
ukrunchat
Yeah, okay. So what changed then? you You said you're into weightlifting and then you did the Lincoln 10K. So what changed? What kind of got you more into running then? What happened? Oh, okay.
00:05:58
Carl
Yeah, that's why I started running. And, you know, that just pure love and enjoyment of of doing it.
00:06:03
ukrunchat
Yeah,
00:06:03
Carl
And I read that book and that ah that kind of ignited the fire in me to get out and start running more again. I kind of switched it up and focused more on the running again.
00:06:13
ukrunchat
yeah it's a great book, isn't it?
00:06:14
Carl
Yeah. Hmm.
00:06:16
ukrunchat
Do you want to just tell us a little bit about it for those of us out there who haven't read it or come across it?
00:06:20
Carl
Yeah, so it's a born to run that's um by a writer called Chris McDougall. um He's written other books and around running and stuff like that. And he went out and it was, was it New Mexico or Mexico?
00:06:34
ukrunchat
yeah it was wasn't it it was mexico wasn't it just the canyon
00:06:35
Carl
It's in America, yeah. And he went and met this this guy called Caballo Blanco. He went out in search of him, ah the white horse, I think it translates to who was like this.
00:06:45
ukrunchat
yeah
00:06:46
Carl
Unfortunately, he died doing what he loved. He he died out there on the trails. um But he went out in search of him, and and there was other sort of characters that came along with the way, and there was this, and the Tirumara, I think that's how you pronounce it, tribe of Indians um who like go running for days, and they're all in sandals or barefoot. I think a lot of it is like the barefoot sort of, where the barefoot running craze kind of come on.
00:07:11
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:07:12
Carl
I do a little bit of barefoot running now and again. and But yeah, on a beach or on,
00:07:20
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:07:20
Carl
on ah on a grassy field, but that's probably it. But but yeah, just a fantastic book. Just anybody that really wants to really delve into it. And I think that kind of where a lot of sort of ultra running stuff comes from, there was a lot of that in there. And that kind of got me thinking about, oh, I wonder how far I could push my running and that sort of thing.
00:07:38
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:07:38
Carl
Yeah, really, it's a fantastic book.
Ultra Marathon Experience
00:07:41
ukrunchat
Yeah, they just kind of go out for days, don't they? And ah they'll just run and they don't seem to to worry about the things we worry about like it and gels.
00:07:44
Carl
Yeah.
00:07:49
Carl
yeah
00:07:51
ukrunchat
They just kind of get on with it, don't they?
00:07:52
Carl
yeah exactly no watches that they're not worried about their pace or anything like that it's just the pure just just going for it it's just just amazing yeah so obviously you know did did all the training and whatnot for it got out yeah some really long runs got just loads of mileage in the legs and and stuff like that and and and yeah got out for that when i went off it's just like out with everybody else you know just
00:08:00
ukrunchat
Yeah, yeah. So you so you mentioned Dultra's there. Tell us about that that ultra at that first Dultra experience with the Dukerys. what
00:08:23
Carl
Just out for the day, just to enjoy it. you know and I think it was the first time where i I'd done a race where it's like, you've got a buffet at each aid station. It's just like, oh, wow, here we go. We've got those those peanut butter and jelly routes. We have some of that little bit of watermelon. Awesome. Haribo, yeah, we'll have some of that and whatnot. It's just like, it so was like a 30 mile picnic. It was great.
00:08:43
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:08:43
Carl
There's a lot of runners out there. I think I do like to eat. so to Involve two of my favorite things.
00:08:48
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:08:50
Carl
It's a good day out.
00:08:53
ukrunchat
So what does your like typical running wheat look like
Typical Running Week and Training Methods
00:08:56
ukrunchat
now then? What kind of sessions do you do? Do you remember the floor or anything?
00:08:58
Carl
ah for me because ah Actually, this year I decided, um because I know I mentioned the the Run 1000 Miles Challenge, I decided this year I wasn't going to set any goals.
00:09:04
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:09:09
Carl
you know There was no mileage target or anything like that. I was just going to just try and connect back with the love of running again and just why I started in the first place. So I don't have a tracker on the wall like I was doing where I was looking at it. I haven't done runs on those days this week. but Typically, because each week is different, but typically it's around about 20 odd miles.
00:09:30
ukrunchat
yeah.
00:09:31
Carl
Very rarely I'll do less than 20 miles a week running. and But if it's a day where you know um my legs might be feeling a bit fatigued, and yeah I'm a bit tired, I'll just go for a walk. Because I've i've got a nine-year-old rescue dog, Bella, and um she needs a walk anyway.
00:09:45
ukrunchat
yeah.
00:09:47
Carl
So she'll either come out i for a run on the trails with me or she'll but we'll just go for a walk in the morning. So whatever happens in the morning. And then sometimes I might, my warmup might be just have a little jog around the block with her first and then I get out for my for my proper run. so So she's getting on now.
00:10:06
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:10:08
Carl
So she she doesn't do the sprinting and whatnot.
00:10:10
ukrunchat
Oh.
00:10:11
Carl
And then in within that, um obviously that's that's the cardio side of things. I will still do my strength training. I'm not actually, ah I think it was about halfway through 2019, I gave up my gym membership um and then thought to myself, oh, it's okay, I'll sort out the garage and I'll get myself some weights and whatnot. Well, obviously then COVID happened. Still sorted out the garage, but I couldn't get hold of any gym equipment for a decent price for love, no money.
00:10:40
ukrunchat
Oh wow, yeah it all went ah sky high price wise.
00:10:40
Carl
But actually, don yeah yeah, but I managed to, that there there was somebody on Facebook, local, and was selling a bench. and barbell and some some dumbbells and and free weights to go with it. I think it was about 50, 60 pounds. So I was like, snap that up. So I train, you know, about three times a week, just free weights um or body weight exercises. So, you know, depending on what I feel like doing, I will always try and train legs at least once a week.
00:11:09
ukrunchat
yeah
00:11:10
Carl
I'm finding that's how I kind of, I was getting, you know, sort of a few niggles here and there, but I find that if I make sure that I train legs once a week, that gets the stretching and it builds up the strength in my legs to kind of stave off the injuries a little bit. And also, in regards to to injury prevent prevention and and recovery, that kind of brings me to ice baths.
00:11:27
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:11:34
Carl
So that's something I'm really into.
00:11:35
ukrunchat
Oh yeah, one we were talking about that before we started recording.
00:11:37
Carl
Yeah.
00:11:38
ukrunchat
Tell us about those then.
Mental Health and Running's Impact
00:11:40
Carl
So yeah, I'm really into to cold therapy. I started, you know, I've been following Wim Hof for quite a while. You know, I've watched a lot of that like his podcasts and some of the stuff he's done, obviously the TV show that he did recently and whatnot. So I've read his books. and So I started with the cold showers a little while ago. ah And then kind of stopped doing it a little bit. I think I started sort of like during the summer and then when it got to the winter, I just didn't fancy the cold showers. So I kind of stopped for a while. And then last November, I bought myself an ice bath.
00:12:15
Carl
um And then I'm pretty much in it every day. It's really hard at the minute, the the temperatures, to to keep the temperature down, and having to add ice packs and and ice and stuff to it at the minute, but it was great sort of like at the start of the year.
00:12:23
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:12:30
Carl
And I think zero degrees was the coldest that it's been, which was his wisdomz was quite fun. I had a layer of ice on there, but I only stayed in for about two minutes on that one. so didn't but But ice baths are absolutely great.
00:12:39
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:12:42
Carl
I really do recommend. it's It's great for the mind and great for the body.
00:12:43
ukrunchat
So what do you find, what do you find the benefits are then?
00:12:46
Carl
and Well, you know it reduces inflammation. Obviously, you know being ah being a runner and and doing all my exercises and stuff like that, you know I do put my body through quite a bit.
00:12:57
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:12:58
Carl
um so And I'm not getting any younger. ah you know I'm 46 now, so um I've got to try and keep things moving because I want to be active for as long as possible. So there's that side of it. um But also the mental health benefits.
00:13:10
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:13:11
Carl
you know um ah I've struggled with my mental health probably for most of my life, to be fair. And just the the kind of idea of it is putting your body through controlled stress so you could kind of try and deal with bigger stress.
00:13:25
ukrunchat
Right.
00:13:28
Carl
I'm not saying it's a cure-all. and I'm not saying it works for absolutely everybody, but it does help, you know, that that five, 10 minutes or however long I'm in there, you know, it just helps me just, you know, concentrate on my breathing. and just be in the moment and not think about all the other stuff that's going on. So it really, really helps that way.
00:13:47
ukrunchat
Yeah, yeah, it's funny. ah I've been reading a book about this today about being present actually. And I guess that's a good way to be really present in the sensations of your body, isn't it?
00:13:55
Carl
and so
00:13:56
ukrunchat
And you're breathing because it gets breathing is quite important when you're in an ice bath that you don't want to be kind of panicking to you and like hyperventilating.
00:14:00
Carl
Yeah. Yeah. and and
00:14:06
ukrunchat
So how long is it taking you to kind of master that and work up to 10 minutes? That'd be quite a slow process.
00:14:10
Carl
um
00:14:13
Carl
Well, because I'd already done a lot of the, I've done cold showers before, but obviously getting used to it, it does take a little while, you know, but I think it was after, you know, at least a couple of weeks of doing, of getting in the ice bath, you know, your body just kind of gets used to it. And and I suppose, because ah my favourite, probably, weather to go running out, to go running it is when it's cold anyway, I really like being out in the cold.
00:14:35
ukrunchat
Oh, is it?
00:14:37
Carl
And I'm one of those that, even if it's sub-zero temperatures, I'm still wearing shorts.
00:14:42
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:14:43
Carl
you know I don't tend to go for that. I thought i think I probably did in the past. I've had the long long tights and whatnot. But ah I like to have my shorts. I like the cold.
00:14:51
ukrunchat
Yeah, no, that's good. I think Yeah, I don't think it's it's not good to overheat on a run, is it? So um'm I'm more of a winter a winter runner, I think as well. So you mentioned mental health that you want to tell us a little bit more about that. And kind of how running helps you.
00:15:05
Carl
Yeah, so I think you know i'm I'm not I know I'm not alone when it comes to mental health struggles, and I've found myself in some pretty dark places. um And it's really hard, and especially for men, I think, you know to to open up. you yeah As I said, um umm I'm 46, so I grew up in the 80s. And back then, you know men were men, and you didn't show emotion, and and you had to keep that down. And I think over a lot of years,
00:15:39
Carl
you know it's And I find it very hard and to show any sort of emotion. and it It bubbles up. As I say, yeah, I found myself in some some really dark places. And you know if it wasn't for my family, my wife and my daughter, I probably wouldn't be here today.
00:16:00
ukrunchat
Wow.
00:16:00
Carl
um and But my exercise and the running, that's a big part of It gets me set up for the day. you know and It's such a good habit to have.
00:16:10
ukrunchat
you.
00:16:15
Carl
It's like if you you get up in the morning, and I'm one of those weirdos as well that doesn't set an alarm. If I know I want to be up at 5 AM in the morning to go for a run, I'll wake up at 5. And I have a running kit out already. So it's start I'll get up, ah have a cup of coffee, and get my kit on and out. and And then that kind of sets me up for the day and gets me in the right head space. and Some days are harder than others, obviously. I'm not saying, you know, I still have days where I struggle, um but I cannot stress the benefits of of running an exercise to really, really sort of help. But also you can't just run away from your problems.
00:17:05
Carl
You have to talk to people and that's something i I'm discovering now.
00:17:09
ukrunchat
yeah i've i've been Yeah, let's just talk a bit more about that because um I've been chatting about mental health a lot recently on this podcast um and and another one that I do. And it seems that people do, you do hear that running can solve our problems, but it can't actually, can it? it can It can help us, but we still need to get to the root of whatever we need solving, don't we? So it's it's not that it's not a solution as such.
00:17:35
Carl
Yeah,
00:17:38
ukrunchat
it's more a I guess an aid to getting us where we need to be maybe.
00:17:43
Carl
yeah of course. No, absolutely. it Like you said there, you know, it it's an aid for it, but, you know, talking to people and and and there's so many great resources out there.
00:17:51
ukrunchat
and
00:17:58
Carl
You know, ah I was watching the the the marathon and all the people doing that. and i was said There was one story which which really hit home with me. There's there's ah the guy that was running in the green telephone this for the Samaritans.
00:18:11
ukrunchat
yeah
00:18:12
Carl
I can't remember what his name was, and but he was talking about his story and and you know the fact that the Samaritans helped him. And now every year, God knows how many years.
00:18:18
ukrunchat
Yes. Yeah.
00:18:21
Carl
I think i remember he said how many years he's been doing it, but it's a long time. And he does it for them every year. and But he just recently, his his brother had taken his own life.
00:18:32
ukrunchat
yeah
00:18:34
Carl
And it was, it really hit me right there. ah And just, you know, he's helped so many people, but he couldn't help that person that was so close to him. And it's just like, if anybody's struggling, I'll say that if anybody's listening to this, if anybody is struggling, you know, you've got the Samaritans, there's calm mind. um I've been helped a lot by talking to so my managers at work, you know, um just just somebody that's kind of
00:18:58
ukrunchat
yeah okay.
00:19:03
Carl
out of your, that's not part of what's going on with you.
00:19:04
ukrunchat
yeah.
00:19:08
Carl
If you talk to somebody outside of that, um then that that's probably the best way of doing it. Because you can unpack it with somebody that probably won't take offense or or does doesn't try and identify what's actually going on there. They'll talk to you from their own sort of perspective, or if it's a professional, et cetera. So yeah.
00:19:30
ukrunchat
Yeah, thanks, Carl, for opening up about that. it's It's tough to talk about, isn't it? Like you say, yeah, but we don't talk about it often enough.
00:19:34
Carl
Yeah.
00:19:37
ukrunchat
So if anyone's out there listening, and you know, our inbox is always open as well. If anybody wants to chat privately about anything, and do get in touch. Thank you, Carl. and so So yeah, let's so let's let's move on then and just chat about kind of um what have you got planned for kind of
Running Philosophy and Future Goals
00:19:56
ukrunchat
this year? What have you got coming up?
00:19:58
Carl
um well The plan is, um in the words of one of my heroes, Ross Edgley, the plan is there is no plan.
00:20:05
ukrunchat
Okay.
00:20:05
Carl
and it's there's There's no races on the horizon. There's no big numbers or anything like that. is I think I've already said it. It's it's just to be in love with the sport that I love, being in love with running. Again, you know just doing as much as I can or as I want. just Yeah, I want to get probably stronger, faster. I need to lose a little bit of weight at the minute as well. and So that's something I need to work on. um but But yeah, and and i was I even kind of said, one of these days, I'm actually going to go out for a run without turning on my watch and see what happens. But I've not managed that yet. I was going to do it at the start of the the year, but I've not managed it. ah I can be a little bit of a slave to my watch. But but yeah, it is just about you know just
00:20:55
Carl
having that love of running, just getting out there and just doing it, really. that That's what I've got planned, really, for this year.
00:21:02
ukrunchat
Oh, no, that sounds good.
00:21:03
Carl
and
00:21:03
ukrunchat
No, no, i like I like that kind of philosophy in running. I think that's great because it means you're never you're never kind of disappointed, are you? You're just doing it for just the love of it.
00:21:13
Carl
Yeah.
00:21:14
ukrunchat
and Yeah. So do you think you'll always be a runner now?
00:21:17
Carl
Oh, absolutely.
00:21:18
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:21:19
Carl
ah I want to still be able to get out there for a run in my 80s.
00:21:22
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:21:23
Carl
That's my plan. That is my long-term plan and that's why I need to you know focus on the yeah ah recovery as much as as possible. I need to get better at stretching as well. so that's
00:21:32
ukrunchat
Yeah, do do you do any stretching? That's the bit that I'm worst at. i That's the bit I'll always skip.
00:21:35
Carl
I'm terrible, absolutely terrible. i do try I do try and obviously a lot of the weightlifting exercises and stuff I do, obviously I concentrate on the stretch on that. so it's kind but But I do actually really love yoga.
00:21:49
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:21:49
Carl
And I've not done it for a long time. i do but i do Whenever I do it, I really enjoy it. I'm not the most flexible person in the world, but I do ah do enjoy doing it. ah yeah There's quite a lot of really good videos on YouTube, so I just do it in the living room sort of things.
00:22:03
ukrunchat
Yeah, someone once said to me and that yoga will always help you become a better runner. and But running will never help you do yoga better.
00:22:15
Carl
I like that.
00:22:15
ukrunchat
yeah Yeah, always remembered that comment is stuck with me.
00:22:16
Carl
That's good.
00:22:18
ukrunchat
So yeah, it's it's good to be flexible, isn't it? Yeah. and So I mean, is there anything you kind of wish you'd known about running when you first started? What have you learned over the years?
00:22:32
Carl
that I wish I'd started sooner, really.
00:22:34
ukrunchat
Oh, yeah.
00:22:35
Carl
You know, if I could go back to my teenage self, I'd be like, you know what, Carl, you know, you're thinking about going to the pub for like the next 10 years. How about get some running trainers or go to the gym instead? You know, I wish I'd got into exercise and fitness um a lot earlier.
00:22:49
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:22:55
Carl
Because I think, what was I? Yeah, 2011. So I would have been in my early 30s when I first, when I started.
00:22:59
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:23:01
Carl
um getting into fitness. And, you know, if I'd have done that when I was a teenager or when I was, you know, maybe in my early twenties, it might, you know, think things would have been very different, I suppose.
00:23:12
ukrunchat
yeah yeah but
00:23:13
Carl
But, hey, but everything happens for a reason. so but and And also, you know, the fact is, and and how expensive it can get as well. It's like this free sport that we've got. ah You know, it doesn't cost a lot. Oh, you need is a pair of trainers. Yeah. But, you know, when when you're doing you know a thousand plus miles a ah year, um which I have done for the past few years, um you know you can get through those trainers pretty quickly.
00:23:39
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:40
Carl
and you know You've got to have your road shoes and your trail shoes and then maybe a pair for backup.
00:23:41
ukrunchat
yes
00:23:45
Carl
and then it's
00:23:46
ukrunchat
Yeah, but ah I won't tell you how many pairs of trainers I've got.
00:23:47
Carl
every but yeah no I just obliterate them and then get a new pair usually.
00:23:49
ukrunchat
Oh my goodness.
00:23:52
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:23:53
Carl
um And then it's obviously all the different t-shirts and stuff and races. You know, I don't do that many races, obviously, because they're quite expensive.
00:23:59
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:24:02
Carl
That's probably why I really like Parkrun because obviously it's free, so you get a nice little time trial and stuff.
00:24:05
ukrunchat
I've talked to you about that, then. Do you do park room regularly?
00:24:09
Carl
Yeah, well, I tend to do it about once a month. That's kind of the deal I've got with Liz, my wife, because she's not a runner.
00:24:12
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:24:17
Carl
She loves
Support System and Park Run Tradition
00:24:17
Carl
walking. She loves walking with me and the dog.
00:24:18
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:24:20
Carl
or or even by herself. and But no, she's not a runner. She'll never be a runner. she doesnt She's got no interest in running. She's quite happy to be a supporter ah and cheer me along. but But yeah, no interest in running. so So we have this deal where it's just like, I can do one part room per month. And we'll usually, you know, we've got quite a few around me. So and and we've got we can go to Clumber Park and then we'll go for a nice walk around. around the lake there, or we might go a little bit further afield.
00:24:53
Carl
We did Beaver Castle um a little while ago.
00:24:54
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:24:55
Carl
And then if we're on holiday as well, I'll always try and see if there's a part run around as well to make sure I get one of those in as well. So yeah, no, absolutely love it. It's great fun.
00:25:04
ukrunchat
Yeah. What's your favorite part? And then I love the Clumber Park one. That was one of my favorites. I used to live over not far from you. And and I used to love visiting Clumber. It's beautiful, isn't it?
00:25:13
Carl
Yeah, that's probably the the second most one I've done. Belton's my local one, Belton House.
00:25:17
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:25:18
Carl
But Clumber Park, I've probably done almost as many times as I've i've done Belton. But my favourite out of all the ones I've done, I did Fellfoot in the Lake District.
00:25:32
ukrunchat
Oh, I've not been up there yet.
00:25:33
Carl
And it was the last day of our holiday ah there as well. And we did this and it I think it's something like two laps, I think you do. But it is right at the bottom of, I think, Windermere. I want to say Windermere. Yes, it's definitely at the bottom of Windermere. So we had the paddle boards with us. So we did part run, and then had a ah couple of hours paddle boarding as well straight after.
00:25:52
ukrunchat
Oh, fantastic.
00:25:53
Carl
so it's like And it was a lovely sunny day as well.
00:25:53
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:25:56
Carl
So it's like people were like jumping into the river straight after they'd they'd done their run and stuff like that. so But yeah, no that that that was really good. And Flats Lane was a good one as well. I forget where that is. I think it's near Saltburn um up in the Northeast.
00:26:12
ukrunchat
Oh, okay. Yeah.
00:26:12
Carl
And it's called Flats Lane. It's not.
00:26:15
ukrunchat
It's not flat.
00:26:16
Carl
it's not there's a real big hill and and it's a two lap one and it's a real big hill and it was the first time I came in the top 20 in any part when I've done yeah there was only just over 30 of us did it that day but but but coming 17th was was quite was quite good I was like um but yeah but that that those those two are pretty fun but um but yeah and they're all good
00:26:40
ukrunchat
Yeah. Oh, lovely. yeah Yeah. I love power and I've not been, ah I've not been to power for ages actually. I should get back. You've just kind of inspired me to think I need to get to my local one actually. It's been a while. It's good fun, isn't it? I love that it's just all kinds of runners that you see there. It's, it's such a nice community.
00:26:54
Carl
yeah yeah no yeah a you know but I've got quite a few friends that do it as well. yeah and yeah it's It's like whether whether you're um walking at the back or whether you're you're getting in at 16 minutes. it's like But you're all doing the same course. You're all doing the same distance.
00:27:13
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:27:15
Carl
It doesn't matter how long or how quick or or not as quick as you go around. Now, I tend to use it as kind of like a bit of a speed session because i will I'll kind of task myself with like, right, I've got, because usually if I go out for a 5K, I'll stop a few times on my way around, take a few pictures and and maybe catch my breath.
00:27:27
ukrunchat
Yeah. Okay.
00:27:38
Carl
I might be listening to a podcast. So I kind of get engrossed in that. So I might just walk a bit further because I'm listening. um Whereas if I'm doing park run, I go, right, I've got to get round and I'm not stopping. So my quickest um was, I think, just under 24 minutes. I did that a few years back. And I've not got anywhere close for quite a while, to be fair. But I'd normally still sit between 26, 27 minutes.
00:28:10
Carl
So I'm quite happy with that, especially given my weight.
00:28:11
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yeah, so you've got no ambitions to kind of get any quicker. You
Trail Running and Cross-Training
00:28:15
ukrunchat
just you just enjoy yourself.
00:28:15
Carl
wow No, ah i would id I'd love to get so sub 25 minutes again, but I'm i'm not sure.
00:28:17
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:28:21
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:28:22
Carl
I'm carrying around 14 and a half stone of, I'd like to say pure muscle, but it's not.
00:28:28
ukrunchat
yeah Do you find the strength training helps make you a better runner or?
00:28:33
Carl
I think, so dick because he it definitely gives you the, especially when it comes to, you know, when when I train legs, you know, I've got pretty big hamstrings and cards and quads. So when it comes to sort of like that sprint finish, that definitely helps.
00:28:49
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:28:51
Carl
But having that extra bulk doesn't help you go. I'm not built like a typical runner at all, not built like a tip. But when it comes to endurance, I can just keep going. So I'm not the fastest, but I'll get there.
00:29:04
ukrunchat
Yeah. Do you know what, though, you say that I don't think that there is kind of a typical runner anymore. is that I think bru running as a hobby has kind of exploded and so many different types of people are doing it now.
00:29:09
Carl
No.
00:29:17
ukrunchat
and So yeah, i don't I don't think it's a typical runner anymore. I think it takes all sorts, you know.
00:29:22
Carl
Yeah, definitely.
00:29:23
ukrunchat
um Yeah. So right, I'm going to move on to our quick fire round then. So I've got a few few questions for you. Are you ready?
00:29:29
Carl
Yes, of course.
00:29:30
ukrunchat
So and preferred running surface, road, trail, track.
00:29:35
Carl
Well, it depends, but definitely try a trail. I love trail running. I love getting out on the trail, seeing what I can see. um If I get out on the trails and I see a couple of deer or I'll see a buzzard or a red kite or something like that. that that That absolutely makes it for me and and getting muddy as well. Absolutely love it. The only bad thing is if Bella, my dog's with me and she's got absolutely filthy or she's found something that she's rolled in, you know, when we get back, she has to have a bath before I have a shower.
00:30:04
ukrunchat
Oh, yeah.
00:30:05
Carl
But but yeah, no, definitely trails, definitely trails.
00:30:07
ukrunchat
Yeah, lovely. So morning or evening runs.
00:30:11
Carl
Morning, morning. Because usually if I don't do it in the morning, it doesn't get done. That's why i get I like to get up early, get out. My ah my favorite time is is being out, getting out when it's still dark. and So it's a bit hard this time of year, because the sun's coming up a lot earlier.
00:30:26
ukrunchat
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:27
Carl
yeah But when it's still dark and a sunrise, absolutely lovely. My camera roll on my phone, it's just full of sunrise pictures.
00:30:36
ukrunchat
I love it.
00:30:37
Carl
um that said but But yeah, definitely morning.
00:30:40
ukrunchat
Yeah, favourite post-run snack.
00:30:43
Carl
All of them. Yeah, definitely. but I like to eat. I do like my food. I've got a bit of a sweet tooth, but but I like pretty much anything. Usually what I'll have in the morning though, um in all seriousness, is, so because obviously I train in the morning, I'll go for a run. And if it's a day that I'm strength training, I'll tend to strength train straight after I've done that cardio.
00:31:04
ukrunchat
Yeah, okay.
00:31:05
Carl
ah And I tend to have, um I'll make myself a smoothie, so I'll be oats, um banana, either some frozen fruit, maybe a scoop of protein powder, um maybe some kale, water, blitz it up. That's my breakfast done. It's easy. It goes down. it's It does everything you need. So that's kind of probably the one, the kind of post-workout, post-run breakfast that I have more often than not.
00:31:33
ukrunchat
Yeah,
00:31:36
ukrunchat
yeah get that protein in really quickly. Yeah, that's good. ah Music or no music on your runs.
00:31:43
Carl
Both. Both. and Music is one of my biggest passions, actually. I love music. and Really, really eclectic music taste as well. um You know, one day I might be yeah yeah know revisiting an old heavy metal classic, and like something by Metallica or Faith No More. or you know another day it's a drum and bass running playlist. and It can be anything.
00:32:06
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:32:08
Carl
I've really got into and po podcasts at the minute it as well, actually. I'm umm quite new to podcasts. I think earlier on this year, I just started listening and to podcasts when I'm out running, if I'm on a long run or something like that. I might put a podcast on and and just have that on while I'm running as well.
00:32:25
ukrunchat
Yeah. Well, what podcasts have you been listening to that any recommendations?
00:32:28
Carl
and Well, obviously, UK Run Chat is one of them.
00:32:30
ukrunchat
well but Yeah.
00:32:31
Carl
ah and But I really like Runpod with Jenny Falconer as well.
00:32:35
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:32:37
Carl
That's a really good one.
00:32:38
ukrunchat
Yeah. Oh, good. So cross-training activity of choice. I think we've answered that, haven't we?
00:32:43
Carl
Yeah, I think we have. Yeah, it's weight lifted.
00:32:44
ukrunchat
you weightlift i Yeah.
00:32:47
Carl
But paddle boarding as well. um Yeah, I love paddle boarding.
00:32:49
ukrunchat
Okay. Is that a good workout then?
00:32:52
Carl
Yeah, definitely. Especially if you're going into a headwind. And and um obviously as well, you know, when when you first do it as well, you're kind of wobbling a bit.
00:32:56
ukrunchat
Right.
00:33:01
Carl
So it's really good really good for your core because you've got to keep
00:33:03
ukrunchat
Yeah. Oh, really?
Memorable Running Experiences
00:33:04
Carl
the balance else you're in the water.
00:33:04
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:33:09
ukrunchat
and So if you could run anywhere in the world, where would it be?
00:33:12
Carl
lake di Lake District, hands down, I love the lakes.
00:33:14
ukrunchat
Yeah. yeah
00:33:16
Carl
Well, I first went to well first went to the lakes recently. It was actually 2020, you know, there was that little bit where we were allowed to go on holiday.
00:33:24
ukrunchat
yeah
00:33:25
Carl
and And so we yeah we rented a lodge in the Lake District. um And it was literally right next to Lowrigg Fell. So um I think I summited that about three times within the way that we were there. you know But yeah, I love mountains. Obviously, I live in Lincolnshire. It's really flat. I don't get the chance to go up many hills.
00:33:46
ukrunchat
Like, isn't it? Yeah.
00:33:48
Carl
um But I love the mountains. There's just something about just going up. as as far as you can get. And then when you get to that summit and that trig point and you can just see everything around you, it's just, it's, there's no feeling like it.
00:34:02
ukrunchat
No, there isn't.
00:34:02
Carl
And there was one morning and it was actually our last morning there. Um, and it was a bit gray and overcast. I was, I'll still get up there anyway. And as I was coming up, I kind of went through the fog and I was all of a sudden I was above it and I had a cloud inversion. all around me. that There's photos on my Instagram. it was it's That was just bucket list running for me. That was just seeing that.
00:34:27
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:34:27
Carl
And i'll think I think there was one other person on the fell that morning as well. So did that experience that.
00:34:32
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:34:34
Carl
like
00:34:34
ukrunchat
Oh, that's so, so lovely, isn't it? Yeah. So we spell running something you'd like to do more of.
00:34:40
Carl
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. no i when Whenever we we go out that way, I'll just take myself out you know early in the morning. I'll get out, and it's just like, and and there's a And going is fun as well. and There's a great phrase, which I think comes from fell runners, which I've heard from something. It's breaks off, brain off.
00:35:03
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:35:04
Carl
Because you can overthink it, especially if you're on ah yeah you're running down a mountain, and ah you can overthink it a little bit.
00:35:06
ukrunchat
Hmm.
00:35:12
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:35:12
Carl
And that's where mistakes happen. um We yeah were in Scotland in 2018. We did a three-week road trip in our camper van. and and And we camped at Glen Nevis campsite, which was right in front of Ben Nevis. So I just said said to Liz, I'm just going to go out for a run. And I didn't tell her where I was going. I was just like, well, it would be rude not to. So I went up and I got about halfway up and then realized I said I was only going to be about an hour and a half. and I'd been 45 minutes. I was like, I need to turn around and go back down. And as I'm running down, I was just like, oh, this is amazing.
00:35:50
Carl
I feel just like Kylie and John A.
00:35:52
ukrunchat
ah
00:35:53
Carl
li And then I fell over my own feet.
00:35:55
ukrunchat
Oh, no.
00:35:58
Carl
And I was like, no, I'm really not. But but for for a brief moment there, I thought I was ah and an amazing mountain runner. But yeah, but but but back down to Earth with a bump.
00:36:07
ukrunchat
Oh, yeah, to be fair, he's been he's been in the mountains since he was like a toddler.
00:36:13
Carl
Well, exactly.
00:36:13
ukrunchat
as a baby Yeah.
00:36:15
Carl
um
00:36:15
ukrunchat
So he's had all that practice. And if you could have one superpower to enhance your running, what would it be?
00:36:22
Carl
And I thought long and hard about this because I know that you normally ask people this when I've listened back to the podcast. And ah well and the the usual question is not to get injured. Well, that's just a given. But I think it would be to be able to infect somebody with my love of running.
00:36:41
ukrunchat
Oh, yeah, that's very generous of you. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:44
Carl
Just, you know, because pet some people just don't get it and I didn't get it.
00:36:44
ukrunchat
ah like Yeah.
00:36:50
Carl
You know, I used to be, you know, I'd be driving along in my car, this is quite a while back, and I'd see somebody running, I'd be just like, you maniac, what are you doing that for? But now I know, well it's just like, to give somebody say the understanding, its that's why we do it, you know, I think like that.
00:37:09
ukrunchat
yeah And it can it can take a while to click, I think, when you try it for the first time, can't it?
00:37:13
Carl
Yeah, oh yeah, definitely.
00:37:14
ukrunchat
and And suddenly, like, oh, this is what it's all about. Yeah.
00:37:19
Carl
Yeah.
00:37:20
ukrunchat
Oh, no, I love that answer. That's great. ah Most unusual or memorable running encounter?
00:37:26
Carl
Oh, it was, I think it was a couple of years ago, we were camping in the Peak District. And from our campsite, that we were right next to the Monsal Trail. And I could see there was there was like a hill and there was like a house on top of that. There was a tree. And I thought, right, I'm going to go try and head that way. So I did. I found the Monsal Trail. I was like, oh, that's that trail. Let's go up. I went up and I just passed this herd of cows.
00:38:00
Carl
I went through the field. I was just like, oh, just get through them carefully. I just got round the corner and I looked round and the entire herd was following me. so And you hear about people being trampled to death by cows and you're like, this is it.
00:38:13
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:38:14
Carl
This is how I'm going to die. This is what's going to happen. And I've just got to where the this house was. And there was a that there was a house and they had a big big wall. And I literally, I was cornered by all these cows. There's me and all these cows are just around me and they're getting closer. And the people from the house came out and they threw over a chair um so I could get over the the the wall and into like the the the patio area.
00:38:34
ukrunchat
Oh my god.
00:38:41
Carl
And then we had to wait for the cows to go. But while I was up there, ah I phoned Liz, my wife, because I could see the campsite from where I was. And I was just like, um I've just had a close encounter with some cows and you know that house that's on the top of that hill, well I'm just up there right now it's just oh yeah we were just sat here and we were looking up and we saw these cows running we wondered what they were doing it for.
00:39:06
ukrunchat
but
00:39:07
Carl
I laugh about it now but it was really scary at the time.
00:39:12
ukrunchat
So how long did you have to wait there for?
00:39:12
Carl
ah And it was only about five, 10 minutes, I think, before they got bored and and wandered off.
00:39:14
ukrunchat
i
00:39:18
Carl
I think um i think they were all they were all quite juvenile cows. So they were quite i would just being curious. And I think the farmer usually would come into the field and give them food. They probably thought I was there to feed them.
00:39:27
ukrunchat
Yeah. Bit scary though, isn't it?
00:39:34
Carl
Yeah.
00:39:35
ukrunchat
ah i Oh, here right, here's one. So running pet peeve. Is there something about running a racing that annoys you or makes you cringe?
00:39:45
Carl
Now, I don't want to upset people, but I think it's yeah some people can take running too seriously. And that's great if you're a professional athlete. you know If you're you know um you know somebody like Mo Farah that's a professional runner or or any of those. and But yeah some people kind of forget why they probably started running in the first place. and you know and and And anybody that actually probably thinks that they're better than somebody else because they can run faster.
00:40:19
Carl
um but It's just my own personal opinion, obviously. um But I'm just in it to have fun. you know I'm not in it to beat somebody else. or Yeah, it's it's nice to get and yeah the little and PR on Strava or whatnot.
00:40:38
ukrunchat
Yeah,
00:40:39
Carl
That's great. It's a great feeling. But at the end of the day, does it really matter if you go a bit faster than somebody else? It doesn't really. you know We're all in it together. That's that's my my kind of and thing about running.
00:40:54
ukrunchat
yeah no, that's that but's really nice and positive. I like that. and So preferred race distance.
00:41:01
Carl
um Well, I don't do that many races. And I haven't done that many races over the years. As I said, I've done a couple of marathon things. one ultra marathon, a couple of 10Ks. My favorite probably distance to to go out for a run is probably about 10K.
00:41:19
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:41:20
Carl
But if I'm doing a race, I kind of want as much bang for my buck, if that makes sense.
00:41:24
ukrunchat
Okay, yeah, yeah, no it's perfect sense.
00:41:25
Carl
So I've put my my hat in the ring. I've entered the ballot for London again.
00:41:31
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:41:31
Carl
um but But I have said to myself, actually, if I don't get in for London, I may. And this is only a possible. It all depends, obviously. but I might um enter the Boston Marathon, which is Boston, UK, obviously, not Boston, America, because that's because I used to live there.
00:41:43
ukrunchat
Yeah. Boston, UK. Yeah.
00:41:47
Carl
So that's um that's my local, that's kind of fun.
00:41:47
ukrunchat
yeah
00:41:49
Carl
And I had a friend that did it at the weekend as well. He did fantastically. um and But yeah, so if I don't get into London this time, I may enter that. So I think there might be another marathon in me somewhere, but we'll see.
00:42:02
ukrunchat
Yeah. Okay. It's a very flat one
Challenges and Achievements
00:42:03
ukrunchat
that I guess in as well.
00:42:04
Carl
Yeah, yeah, so I've heard.
00:42:05
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yeah. So last one, any standout moments in your running so far that you're particularly proud of?
00:42:14
Carl
Um, I think it was the, the, the, the probably, you know, i I said, I'm not looking at a distance this year, but you know, when I first set myself that, that 1000 miles and the first year I tried it, I was like 26 miles short.
00:42:24
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:42:28
Carl
So I was a marathon short of doing it in that year. And then I think the next year I did it. Um, and that was like 2019, but 2020 that was a proper year for running.
00:42:33
ukrunchat
yeah
00:42:40
Carl
I think I managed nearly 1,300 miles that year of of running.
00:42:45
ukrunchat
yeah
00:42:46
Carl
And I've done a lot of walking as well on top of that.
00:42:46
ukrunchat
and
00:42:49
Carl
So um it was just, you know, because I was working from home at the time, so I got up really early, I get out and and and get that few extra miles in. and So I think it was, yeah, that's that was stann when it went I was like so many months into the year, I was like, I think, in fact, I i think it actually popped up on my Facebook memories either yesterday or the day before.
00:43:09
ukrunchat
Yeah, wow.
00:43:11
Carl
And I'd i'd hit 500 miles for the year. you know I was like, well, I've done that a bit quick.
00:43:14
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:43:17
Carl
And then it just escalated as well.
00:43:18
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:43:20
Carl
and ah did I think I ended up doing a seven. Yeah, it was a 70-day running streak as well that year. So every single day, I've done at least a mile, I think it was, for 70 days straight.
00:43:31
ukrunchat
Yeah. Okay. How did you find that? Did, did that help you running or did you find you were getting more tired?
00:43:37
Carl
um No, I think it it gave me a little bit more motivation to get, I was just like, oh, let's see if I can get to 50.
00:43:41
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:43:44
Carl
Oh, well, I've done 50. Well, I still fancy going for a run today. I'll go out and then, well, I don't want to leave it on an odd number, so I'll just go up to the next 10 and then, yeah.
00:43:52
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:43:54
Carl
But then when it got to the 70, I was just like, right, that's enough now. I think I need a few days to rest and recover.
00:43:57
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:44:00
ukrunchat
So would you attempt another one of those, do you think?
00:44:00
Carl
um
00:44:04
Carl
Who knows? and there's there's There's bits of me only just sort of hanging on at the minute.
00:44:09
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:44:09
Carl
and i've I've got a little bit of an issue with my hip, which seems to be getting better. But um I've got nerve damage, so the doctor tells me, on one of my toes, on my left foot. And I've found that ah again I've got a bit of numbness in it. And um sort of like I get kind of three miles into a run, and it starts cramping up. depending on what shoes I'm wearing, if i'm went because I've got a a new pair of trainers that I'm kind of bedding in at the moment. but So it's kind of happening with those, but the pair that are nearly dead and that I've been wearing for a while now, and it doesn't hurt at all when I wear them, but because it's it's properly bedded in and grooved.
00:44:47
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:44:48
Carl
So yeah, so on we'll see. We will see.
00:44:52
ukrunchat
Yes, I will hopefully you recover from that soon. And yeah, I will thank you so much for coming on and talking to us.
00:44:58
Carl
Hmm.
00:44:58
ukrunchat
It's been really nice chatting
Closing Remarks and Social Media
00:44:59
ukrunchat
to you. and Thanks for being ah so open about things earlier as well. Yeah, hopefully that helps some people out there who are listening and maybe going through.
00:45:06
Carl
Yeah, so it's it's you know i I shared the my my blog with you in in my message.
00:45:09
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:45:11
Carl
So I try and get a lot of thoughts down in that and try and trying to write.
00:45:14
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:45:15
Carl
so And I decided to call that the broken runner, because being brett' at the time when I started writing, I'd had a problem with my knee and obviously that issue with my toe.
00:45:18
ukrunchat
ah Yeah.
00:45:26
Carl
And then obviously the mental health side of it as well. So broken in a couple of ways, but what is broken can be fixed, as they say.
00:45:32
ukrunchat
yeah Well, we'll share a link to the blog in the show notes. Um, so yeah, just click on that and where can our listeners follow you on socials?
00:45:41
Carl
Yeah, so my Instagram is, I believe, it is Agent 1977.
00:45:50
Carl
Just an old internet moniker, but I was born in 1977, so yeah, Agent 1977 on Instagram.
00:45:53
ukrunchat
Yeah.
00:45:57
Carl
I think if you can just just search by my name, Karl Davison, you might find me that way as well.
00:46:00
ukrunchat
Yeah. Yes. Oh, well, thank you so much. I hope that everyone listening has enjoyed the episode. And thank you again, Carl, for coming on as a guest. We really appreciate it.
00:46:09
Carl
Yeah, really enjoyed it, thank you.