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John Yelland, Race Director of Hourglass | Mad Hatter Sports Events
164 Plays10 days ago
Ever raced against time itself? ⏳
In this episode, we chat to John Yelland, founder of Mad Hatter Sports Events and race director of the Hourglass race, a unique event where the clock gets faster every lap. Strategy, grit, and community come together in this event format set in the heart of Cornwall.
“It’s not about speed, it’s you against the clock.” — John Yelland
Enjoy!
#UKRunChat
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Transcript
Introduction and John's Journey
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Hello and welcome to the UK Run Chat podcast. I'm Michelle and today we're exploring a race that flips traditional running events on their head, the Hourglass race.
00:00:11
UKRunChat
Joining me is John Yelland, the race director behind Hourglass and the founder of Mad Hatter Sports Events. And he's here to share the story between what sounds like a slightly bonkers race format where time literally runs out with each lap.
00:00:20
John Yelland
Oh,
00:00:27
UKRunChat
and We'll also be chatting a bit about his journey into running and race directing. and So yeah, whether you're an elite athlete or just looking for your next challenge, then this episode might just inspire you to try something different.
00:00:39
UKRunChat
Hi, John. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast.
00:00:40
John Yelland
ah yeah.
00:00:42
UKRunChat
How are you?
00:00:43
John Yelland
Yeah, I'm good, thank you. I'm very good. Yeah, looking forward to going for a run later, to be fair.
00:00:48
UKRunChat
lovely. So can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and your background? Because you're based down in Cornwall. That's right, isn't it?
00:00:54
John Yelland
yeah Yeah, that's right. So i um I started running back in about 2010, 2009, 2010, something like
Mad Hatter Sports: Creation and Vision
00:01:10
John Yelland
that.
00:01:10
John Yelland
So I'd played football as a kid and then ah moved away and and gained weight. So I decided one day to to run to try and lose a bit of weight and started off with a few kilometres and then uh decided to do a half marathon for charity um and did local uh plymouth half marathon for charity uh complete novice complete unknown um did all right it did that two or three times and then thought well what can i do next to raise money for charity so um so ended up signing straight up for an ultra marathon three marathons in three days which had which it did um
00:01:46
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:01:49
UKRunChat
It's quite leap.
00:01:50
John Yelland
which Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah Massive learning curve, especially on day one. Because, yeah, day one was just ridiculous because i I'd seen marathons on telly.
00:02:01
John Yelland
No one carried a bag. i knew what I was doing. You know, I didn't know. I didn't know why people were walking up hills. So i but I ran, tried to run the whole thing and just ended up dying after about 17 miles.
00:02:13
John Yelland
I'm thinking, really rethinking my life choices at that point. But yeah, learning curve. um And then got kind of got into multi-sport. So multi-sport is my my kind of main sport. So swim run is ah is a race that I do, which is running in a wetsuit and swimming with his shoes on.
00:02:32
John Yelland
But yeah, yeah it's it's it's a lot easier than it sounds, to be fair.
00:02:32
UKRunChat
Oh, OK, that's got to be difficult.
00:02:38
UKRunChat
is it?
00:02:38
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, so i I got into it like that. and And in terms of race organizing, there were three of us originally within Mad Hatter. ah There's now only me.
00:02:49
John Yelland
um And yeah, so we we started off with, we'd been around Europe, around the UK, doing lots of races and spending an absolute fortune on races.
00:03:01
John Yelland
And you you you you it could you can spend anything up to five, 600 pound on the race and you can go and do it and you come over the finish line and you get some man and his dog to go, well done.
00:03:12
John Yelland
And we thought, actually, do you know what? We want to, we think we can do it better um and, and provide an atmosphere and fun and everything around it. So, you know, all of our events are, everybody gets a high five, everybody gets um celebrated as if they won.
00:03:32
John Yelland
um So, so, you know, it's, that's that's what we started That's why we started. It's proving to be a bit
Financial and Community Aspects of Races
00:03:38
John Yelland
more challenging than we thought. But yeah, it's it's really good fun.
00:03:43
UKRunChat
yeah Tell us a little bit about what you've learned then in race directing. so from having been both sides as a runner and a race organizer. and
00:03:52
John Yelland
um so So I think the biggest thing for me is that everybody thinks you make a fortune. Everybody thinks, well, you charge £100 per person or whatever it might be.
00:04:03
John Yelland
and they times that by the number of entries that you get and they think that's it. You know, that's the profit you make. And actually it's not, if you, if you work out the insurances and the medals and venue hire and and loads of other stuff that you have to buy and purchase or hire in, um actually the money is is not particularly good. If you did it for the money, you wouldn't do it at all. So, you know, you know,
00:04:32
John Yelland
go out to those race directors and those local races and support them because they're doing it not for the money, they're doing it because they love it or they and want to see people challenging themselves. so that's the biggest thing I've learned over it. um And it's it's lovely to see people just competing and doing stuff. you know We've had people that have come to us early on that that couldn't couldn't run or couldn't swim or couldn't do something and then to see them doing it and achieving what they set out to achieve is is ah is a massive buzz for us. So it's all about the community and the fun.
00:05:03
UKRunChat
Yeah, and that's that's nice. That's a nice bit of racing. That's the bit of racing that I really enjoy, actually.
00:05:07
John Yelland
Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:09
UKRunChat
It's the people,
Marketing Challenges and Community Bonds
00:05:10
UKRunChat
isn't it, that you meet?
00:05:10
John Yelland
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So I've, I've got so many friends and stuff that we've met over the years who, you know, we, we now go out to Croatia twice a year on a camp and people come out to there and, you know, keep coming back to see us. And, know, we follow everybody that that comes along and does our events or try to, and see what they're up to. And yeah, it's, um,
00:05:31
John Yelland
it's lovely to meet people because it is a community. It is definitely a community.
00:05:36
UKRunChat
Yeah, I've met some lovely people just through doing races and then figured out we're not actually that far away and we've we've met up and we've had some good fun adventures outside of races as well.
00:05:46
John Yelland
The funny thing is like, sorry.
00:05:46
UKRunChat
And you kind meet your own people there, don't you?
00:05:49
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's the funny thing is it's like, so with our swim run events, um, It's getting the message out to people. And that's the real difficult thing at the moment. um Facebook algorithms and Instagram algorithms have changed. So I met someone in the pool, swimming pool recently, and she had a swim hat on from Attila, who are the main organizers of swim run races.
00:06:12
John Yelland
And I said to her, said, oh, you've see and hello hat have you done a swim run? And she said, yeah, I've done, I've done the Isles of Silly. This is a few years ago now, but done the Isles of Silly. And I said, oh are you down on holiday? And she went, no, I live, live in Grand Pound, which is maybe 10 miles away from where we're based. And I said to her, have you ever heard of Mad Hatter or the Hokey Kokey, which is our swim run?
00:06:31
UKRunChat
yeah Yeah, it is.
00:06:32
John Yelland
And she went, no never heard of it. So she's 10 miles away into the sport and never heard of us. And it was like, wow how do we get out to people? But yeah, It is, you know, she now comes along all the time and been to Croatia with us. And it's just that chance meeting, isn't it, of people sometimes, I guess.
00:06:48
UKRunChat
And it is. It's so tough. this I think there's such a lot of noise out there at the moment on particularly social media that it is hard to get heard, isn't it?
00:06:53
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:06:56
John Yelland
Yeah, absolutely.
00:06:57
UKRunChat
So where do most of your kind of entrants come
00:06:57
John Yelland
Absolutely.
Innovative Race Formats and Events
00:07:00
UKRunChat
from?
00:07:00
UKRunChat
Have you asked them, how do they find
00:07:02
John Yelland
Yeah, so we we do track that and most of them come through social media. um We have tried marketing campaigns and things in the past, um but but most of them come through Facebook and Instagram, um not not Twitter we don't or whatever it's called now, X. We don't seem to get a lot of lot of kind of people from there, but Facebook and Instagram definitely we we get a lot of people from.
00:07:25
John Yelland
um we have Like i say, we've invested in financial as sorry we've invested marketing and stuff in the past, but don't really get the return. It's not worth it. um So, yeah, I mean, we drag people in.
00:07:35
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:07:38
John Yelland
I mean, we are based in Cornwall, but we get people from all over the UK come and do our events. And we have people. so So for our swim run, for example, we've had people flying from Germany and America to do them. So, yeah, it's it's it it it has got like a global kind of feel to it sometimes, but it's still quite small as well. it' It's a strange one.
00:08:01
UKRunChat
So before we get into chatting about Hourglass, which is a very unique event, what other events do you run there?
00:08:03
John Yelland
ye
00:08:06
UKRunChat
You've got the swim run. else do you
00:08:07
John Yelland
Yeah, so we do two open water swimming events, um purely open water swimming, ah the Gwinnies and the Swim Festival.
00:08:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:08:16
John Yelland
um the The Swim Festival is slightly different. It's not just one event. It's four events across the day, different distances, and you can do old all four just to make up the numbers.
00:08:28
John Yelland
So we do those. We do three swim run events. We do an aquathlon. ah which which is actually next weekend. So I'm slightly panicking about that at the moment. But you can do the trail run.
00:08:40
John Yelland
It's a three-kilometre swim, 15-kilometre trail run in ah in a disused clay pit in Cornwall.
00:08:43
UKRunChat
Right.
00:08:46
John Yelland
it's ah it's It's a fantastic location.
00:08:46
UKRunChat
OK.
00:08:49
John Yelland
We're so lucky to have it. um And then we do a an alternative triathlon, a swim paddleboard run.
00:08:57
UKRunChat
Oh, that's different. Yeah.
00:08:58
John Yelland
yeah Yeah, it's different, but I'm not sure there's a real market for it because a of people have paddle boards, but they don't really race them. There's not many people that race them. So yeah, we have to might have to rethink that one in the future. But yeah, so we do seven seven events, eight events across the year. So I think as well, if if you're an event organizer, if you do the same event every year, there's a balance between the same event every year becoming boring or I've done that, I'm going to do something different and mixing it up all the time.
00:09:27
John Yelland
So you're always looking for different things.
00:09:30
UKRunChat
Yeah, I think there's too many different markets there though, isn't there?
00:09:30
John Yelland
Yeah. And that's how Hourglass came along.
00:09:33
UKRunChat
Because sometimes it's nice to go back and try and challenge yourself over the next route on a timed course.
00:09:36
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah, yeah. See whether that you've improved and yeah, yeah.
00:09:40
UKRunChat
Yeah.
The Hourglass Race: Concept and Records
00:09:41
John Yelland
And that's that's kind of where Hourglass came along because there's a lot of running events in Cornwall, a huge amount of running events in Cornwall.
00:09:44
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:09:49
UKRunChat
You've got a huge running scene down there, haven't you?
00:09:50
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah, yeah, massive.
00:09:51
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:09:52
John Yelland
And um we want we didn't really want to compete with the other running companies, running events companies. So we never put on a running event. And then the idea of Hourglass came along. So it's totally different.
00:10:07
John Yelland
So we thought, well, do you know what? We're not competing with anybody specifically. So we'll we'll just see how it goes. And that's kind of where it started.
00:10:15
UKRunChat
Yeah. So tell us a little bit about it then, because the the press release that i I saw about it described it as front yard race.
00:10:20
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:10:21
UKRunChat
And we're obviously all familiar with backyard ultras. Like we we love following those and seeing how long it takes people to, you know, how far they can go, really. So tell us about the hourglass race format.
00:10:33
John Yelland
ah Okay, so it came about five years ago. I was working with someone and she she kind of she'd done a race and it tweaked my interest, what she'd done. I can't remember what she'd done now. I was thinking about it earlier on before we we got on the call.
00:10:48
John Yelland
I can't remember what it once she did, but it tweaked my interest. I thought, yeah, that's good, but i don't really want to do it like that. I want to do something different. So I spoke to the two other guys and we came up with you know Hourglass and um So basically it's, it's, I don't want to say this because I don't want to put people off, but it's a, it's just a massive beat test.
00:11:11
John Yelland
That's what it is.
00:11:11
UKRunChat
Right, okay.
00:11:13
John Yelland
That's what it is.
00:11:14
UKRunChat
I'm thinking now back to bleep tests at school, thinking, oh, no.
00:11:14
John Yelland
It's exactly, this is what people, this is exactly how people react.
00:11:17
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:11:20
John Yelland
And actually we have a real challenge getting people to come and do it because they, they don't understand it or they, they're scared of having to run fast. And there's a lot of kind of misconceptions and,
00:11:32
John Yelland
things but but basically it's a two mile loop um around the Royal Cornwall Showground in Cornwall it's relatively flat the original course we had to change because of Covid um so we had to introduce a little bit of trail and we don't want to change it back now because that would kind of nullify previous years um so it's it's a two mile loop around the Royal Cornwall Showground and the first loop you've got half an hour to finish that's 15 minute mile pace um so So after that half an hour, you can run it you can run it seven minute mile pace and come in and have a 16 minute rest or you can you know come in and walk it and come in with a minute to go.
00:12:14
John Yelland
um But after that half an hour elapses, we say, we count down from 10 and then we say go and lap two starts and lap two is 29 minutes and so on and so forth until you get can't go any further basically.
00:12:24
UKRunChat
Right. Okay.
00:12:30
John Yelland
So it's a lot about It's lot about strategy. You know, how about, how do I save my energy? How do I, ah you know, stay stay fresh, stay, you know, it's about nutrition, stay hydrated, all that kind of stuff, fueling for it.
00:12:47
John Yelland
um And it's different because for a number of reasons. So, you know, we get people that come and do it who are, you know, sub three-hour marathon runners. But to do a marathon on hourglass, you're actually kind of on your feet for,
00:13:01
John Yelland
quite a considerable amount of time because there's no point in running fast. So yeah, it's interesting see what people do. So so my my stepfather-in-law has done it for the last two years.
00:13:13
John Yelland
So he's 76. He did five laps this year. So he did 10 miles and that's walking.
00:13:16
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:13:18
John Yelland
So yes.
00:13:18
UKRunChat
Okay. Yeah.
00:13:20
John Yelland
So I think there's ah there's ah there's a misconception that you've got to be really fast and an elite level runner to go and do this. And actually it's not. it's ah It's a great day out because you are running with people who who maybe you wouldn't normally run with because everybody's doing those laps together, you know, and chatting. So for the first X number of laps, everybody's going around together. So you've got, you know, local high level, high standard runners who would normally win, run it with people who, you know, are maybe not at that standard and they're all chatting and having a laugh and joking together. um But you've got to be aware.
00:14:00
John Yelland
you've to be aware of that time limit. So, um, the last year's winner, uh, on lap, I think it was lap seven or eight.
00:14:02
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. yeah
00:14:10
John Yelland
He thought he had two minutes to get in and I, then he heard me on the mic going, you've got 20 seconds. Uh, so he had to sprint. He messed his, um, messed his calculations up a little bit, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a fun event. It's a super day out. I love it because we, we just have fun with it. We drive around in the vehicle filming and taking photographs and,
00:14:30
John Yelland
because actually for most of the day we set them off and then ah just they're just out on the course and come back and then we set them off again 20 minutes later or whatever it is. And yeah, it's it's a super fun event and people shouldn't be scared of it, definitely.
00:14:45
UKRunChat
Yeah, no, that's very reassuring actually, that somebody can go in and and walk it and actually complete that many laps.
00:14:50
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:14:52
UKRunChat
What's the kind of longest time the event's been going for then in terms of the the competitor who's the stage course?
00:14:57
John Yelland
So we've got the... The male record is they got to 36 miles. So that's down to a six and a half minute mile pace.
00:15:04
UKRunChat
Yeah, wow.
00:15:08
John Yelland
um And the female record is 32. No, just gone to 34 miles, which is which is seven minute mile pace.
00:15:14
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:17
John Yelland
But that's seven minute mile pace after 32 miles after being on your feet for seven or eight hours.
00:15:21
UKRunChat
wg
00:15:24
John Yelland
um
00:15:24
UKRunChat
That's going isn't it?
00:15:25
John Yelland
Yeah, it's it's very impressive. And one of the really lovely things about the event is that you get to see and cheer those winners on.
00:15:28
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:33
John Yelland
yeah How many times do we all go and do an event where yeah the winners have got their medal, they've got their trophy and gone home by the time I've finished anyway. you know um Whereas with this, the longer you go into the race before you um before you time out, you know you then you stay and watch and cheer. This year there was a girl that was going for the record and there were people throwing water on her and to try and keep her cool. And yeah, it's, it's really, really interesting because I mean, it does, does kind of catch up with you very quick.
00:16:07
John Yelland
So people tend to start and it's all good fun. And yeah, 20 miles can come along quite easily.
00:16:13
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:16:13
John Yelland
and say that, I say that quite tongue in cheek, but, you know you're still not running ah massive pace to get it within 20 miles I think it's 10 minute mile pace or something like that you have to run to get to 20 miles so not hugely fast um but and then it gradually just kind of jumps out at you almost it's like all of a sudden you're having to work really hard but but that's that's the beauty of it is it's you're working to your heart not
00:16:21
UKRunChat
No. Yeah. well Okay.
00:16:47
John Yelland
yeah if Someone else is hard. It's not like you're doing a 10k or a half marathon where you've got to run a particular pace and everybody's got a time that they want to do. it's Actually, it's you against the clock. That's it.
00:16:58
John Yelland
Somebody else might have a different strategy. Somebody might want to be doing those seven minute miles early on. So, um so yeah, you've got to be very careful about not wanting to race people.
00:17:08
UKRunChat
Yeah, so how do runners tend to approach it all very differently then? So is it better to kind of set off quickly and have a rest? Or is it better to kind of just really pace yourself?
00:17:19
UKRunChat
What's your experience?
00:17:19
John Yelland
Well, I'm not sure I can really tell you that. I'm not sure I can, my dogs are talking to me.
Race Strategy and Opportunities
00:17:24
John Yelland
I'm not sure I can really tell you that because, know, that's giving away the tricks, isn't it?
00:17:27
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's top secret.
00:17:27
John Yelland
but don't say yeah Um, there was a guy that did it the first year. So we started off in the winter time and, uh, in February and we had 60 mile an hour winds and it was terrible conditions, but we did it.
00:17:41
John Yelland
And there was a guy there who did it and he, he ran seven minute mile pace, um, for for every lap. And I was thinking he's he's not going to keep that going. And he timed out on 32 miles, I think it was, but he could have kept going.
00:17:54
John Yelland
But I often think if he timed his running or yeah know saved himself a little bit in the earlier laps, he could have probably gone further. So I think the strategy that seems to work is adjusting time.
00:18:03
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:18:08
UKRunChat
yeah
00:18:09
John Yelland
So it's coming in with maybe 90 seconds, a minute, have a quick toilet stop, some food, change your shoes, change your top, um you know, and go out again.
00:18:22
John Yelland
I think if you're coming in in and having five, six minutes of rest each time, um then then you do ten to you do tend to seize up and struggle.
00:18:32
UKRunChat
Yeah, you're cooling down a bit, aren't you? Yeah, muscles are supering.
00:18:34
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:18:36
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:38
John Yelland
but So so that's that's good, but it's it's I love the way the day kind of builds because the first few laps you're thinking, ah you know, you got 10 minutes to the start of the next lap and you people are just wandering over the line and then yeah gradually it reduces and people aren't even in sight and you go, right, you've got 30 seconds to the start of the next lap and yeah just the the atmosphere really does build. so um And the front yard thing actually is quite funny because you know obviously backyards, we've got a lot of backyard ultras out there.
00:19:04
UKRunChat
Yeah. There we go.
00:19:11
John Yelland
And I've got to be honest, i don't stand I don't fancy standing around for three or four days um with our glass, we're done and home by half past four, regardless of who turns up.
00:19:25
John Yelland
So so we're at we're at we're home by half past five, regardless of who turns up. So yeah, so the front yard thing came around because we were talking to someone and they went, well, you know, you've got backyards.
00:19:36
John Yelland
This must be a front yard. So we've coined that now and we're but right now now officially the only, ah think, front yard ultra in the world.
00:19:39
UKRunChat
I like it.
00:19:46
UKRunChat
know it's It's a nice concept, yeah, and I think it's it's a challenge, isn't it? It's something different.
00:19:51
John Yelland
It is.
00:19:53
UKRunChat
Because normally when people look at endurance running, a lot of the guests we've had on here have talked about how it's really important to pace yourself. This is similar, but you've also got to speed up as well as you haven't you?
00:20:01
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:20:04
John Yelland
You've got to speed up. Yeah.
00:20:06
UKRunChat
yeah
00:20:06
John Yelland
Yeah. so some of the Some of the things that people have said to us is just, you know, like I said, we we should really struggle to get people to to enter. So our normal field is, is it's grown by about 10 each year. So this year we had 65, 66, think, do it.
00:20:19
John Yelland
five sixty six i think do it um which is which is a good good number, um but with like yeah there's no reason why we couldn't have significantly more, which would be great.
00:20:30
John Yelland
ah But it's a nice feel at the moment. But but people say to us, well, if I did it, you'd be there for days waiting for me to finish. and you're like, no, no, it's genuinely physically impossible for somebody to run past half past four.
00:20:41
UKRunChat
yeah
00:20:44
John Yelland
And other people have said, i wouldn't be able to finish one lap. Well, you know, if if my stepfather-in-law can do five laps at 76, then anybody, I reckon anybody, almost anybody could could do one one or two laps, you know, quite easily, you know.
00:21:00
UKRunChat
yeah
00:21:01
John Yelland
If you're part of a running club, then I think you could do it. Yeah, definitely.
00:21:04
UKRunChat
Yeah. Do you get many running clubs coming and taking part together as groups?
00:21:05
John Yelland
That's
00:21:08
John Yelland
Yeah, so um we it' because it's quite a small event at the moment, it's grown, so we we we probably get a number of running club local running clubs, and we do a a running club prize for the average highest average across the running club. but um Obviously, with with only five or six people from each club doing it, if one team gets first, third, and fourth, they're obviously going to have a higher average. So when we get a few more teams and a few more people doing it, then Hopefully that will even itself out.
00:21:38
John Yelland
But I mean, some of the, distance I mean, the distances covered in hourglass are actually quite staggering because think last, this year, sorry, over 50% of the competitors ran further than they'd ever run in their life.
00:21:45
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:21:52
UKRunChat
wow
00:21:53
John Yelland
Yeah. Yeah. And it's a really great way of maybe doing your first marathon or half marathon because there's no time kind of pressures. yeah if If you're going to do a marathon and you go, oh, well, yeah, my brother did a marathon and he took four hours, so I want to beat him.
00:22:11
John Yelland
There's none of that kind of pressure on this. It's just about getting within that clock and beating that clock. So, yeah, it'ss it's a totally different race. And that's, I think, why why people maybe are a little bit scared because they don't really understand it so much.
00:22:26
John Yelland
So, yeah, we will.
00:22:29
UKRunChat
Yeah, and I guess because you've got that bit of recovery in as well, each lap, and if it took me a few seconds, you wouldn't you wouldn't want to do that on a normal run, would you?
00:22:32
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:37
UKRunChat
Because don't want to stop, yeah.
00:22:37
John Yelland
No, no, because you do come in and stop, yeah, yeah each time. And I love it because they they come over the finish line and they that we've got a big shed at the showground which we put all the all the food and chairs in.
00:22:50
John Yelland
They can move it outside if they want, but it gives them a bit of shade if it's hot. And they finished the finish line is maybe 50 metres from the shed. So they they ah keep running. So they keep running past that finish line and into the shed to get their fluids. And it's it's yeah it's quite funny to see them just from running in. It makes results an absolute nightmare.
00:23:12
John Yelland
Because people come over and they come in within the time. And it's like, they've come in within the time. So they've finished that lap. And you tell people, if you're not going out for the next lap, let us know.
00:23:23
John Yelland
But then, you know, some people go out on the next lap or some people bail on the next lap. Some people time out. it's it yeah it's ah It's a really challenging thing to get the results anything like right.
00:23:37
John Yelland
But that one of the interesting things with Hourglass is the first year we did it, I think it a week before the event, somebody said to me, what do you do if um three people on the last lap, three men are on the last lap, three ladies are on the last lap and none of them make the time?
00:23:54
John Yelland
Oh, I hadn't really given that much thought. So at the kind of sharp end of the event, when we get down to the last two or three males and females, they need to be very aware of what's going on around them because if if none of them make it over the line, it becomes a race to the finish.
00:24:14
John Yelland
um So last year, for example, there was a girl, ah she would she'd led most of the race, um most of the laps. She came in. I think it was on lap 30 and went, I'm done.
00:24:28
John Yelland
I'm done. And was like, come on, you've got another lap in you. And she's like, no, I'm done. And I said, well, you better hope that the next lady who was in second place at that point, there was only two ladies going at this point, I said, you better hope that she doesn't come in in time, then you've then you've won.
00:24:44
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:24:44
John Yelland
And she's like, well, what if she does come in in time? I said, well, if she starts, you've got to start. Otherwise, she's won. And she just, she decided not to start and the other girl started and by starting she'd won.
00:24:59
John Yelland
So yeah, it's it's really interesting because this year we had, um it it becomes a little bit of gamesmanship or one-upsmanship or whatever, because
00:24:59
UKRunChat
yeah oh
00:25:08
John Yelland
One guy came in and he looked knackered when he came over the line. And this guy who was in second came in with um three or four seconds to spare. And this is, you know, they're running sort of seven, six and a half, seven minute mile but pace at this point after 30 odd miles.
00:25:24
John Yelland
And they're coming in with seconds to spare. And they're both looking at each other kind of going, well, if he goes, I've got to go. i don't want to go. and yeah, it's it's really, really fun.
00:25:35
John Yelland
It's really fun. ah But there's quite a few videos of it online as well. So um we had Global Triathlon Network came and do it. Heather Fell came and did it the first year.
00:25:45
John Yelland
And you can see that with her because she's she's kind of going, I don't want to run, but I know that I've got to go. So, yeah, it's it's ah it's a totally different thing. It'd be lovely to have like a couple of hundred people do it in the future.
00:25:58
John Yelland
That's that's our aim is to get 200 or 300 and ah maybe even look at...
00:25:59
UKRunChat
yeah
00:26:03
John Yelland
doing another one somewhere else, finding the right location, because I realised that coming to Cornwall is expensive, although you can fly now for into Newquay Airport and things.
00:26:05
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:26:14
John Yelland
But yeah, so if we did something, well, Manchester, maybe.
00:26:18
UKRunChat
Yeah. Yeah. I know it's a long way from where I am in Manchester. Certainly I drove down that way last year.
00:26:22
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:26:23
UKRunChat
It was a long way.
00:26:24
John Yelland
You can fly.
00:26:25
UKRunChat
Yeah. yeah You can also get the train. There's a sleeper train that goes out of London.
00:26:28
John Yelland
Yes, yes.
00:26:29
UKRunChat
into Cornwall. Yes.
00:26:30
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:26:31
UKRunChat
So there are options out there.
00:26:32
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:26:33
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:26:33
John Yelland
Definitely. But yeah, I mean, it's ah it's probably out of all the events we do, it's probably our fate one of our favorites because it's just, it's not massively complicated to organize.
00:26:46
John Yelland
in comparison to some of the others.
Inclusivity and Simplicity of Events
00:26:50
John Yelland
It's really good fun because you're just having a chat with people all day and we'll we'll drive around, like as said earlier, we'll drive around in the van with music player in and taking requests and it's just basically me me and my son messing about for eight hours in the van.
00:27:04
John Yelland
So, yeah.
00:27:04
UKRunChat
and It sounds great. Do you provide food for the event or do competitors bring their own? How does that normally work?
00:27:09
John Yelland
So we provide, ah so so we're we're actually done sponsored or partnered with Precision Hydration, Precision Fuel and Hydration. um So they provide us with gels and electrolyte drinks and things like that. but so And we also provide flapjacks and crisp and various other things, bananas, watermelon. But if people have their own specific kind of needs, then I would suggest that they bring their own.
00:27:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:27:34
John Yelland
A lot of people change multiple running tops. The record is is for someone to actually change every lap, different t-shirt every lap.
00:27:39
UKRunChat
Right.
00:27:43
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:27:45
John Yelland
And quite a few people do the first few laps in fancy dress.
00:27:49
UKRunChat
Oh, that's fun. What's the funnest kind of fancy dress that you've had?
00:27:50
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:27:52
John Yelland
Farmer outfit. wellies, wax jacket, flat cap. we had The first year we did it, it was really not very nice weather, as I said. and One of my friends did it and he was he was trying to wind his wife up by coming in just on time.
00:28:07
John Yelland
and Then he realised he had to take his yeah puffer jacket off and his wellies and put his running kit on. so He almost timed out. but because That's another thing with it. If you come in and we say go, we count down and say go for the next lap.
00:28:22
John Yelland
You've got 20-second 20 second kind of window to get out on the course if you're not out on the course within 20 seconds of the start you're out so you can't hang around in there and then you have a five minute break and then try and sprint to catch up uh so yeah there's lots of rules and this is what i think like i say people just go don't really understand it in fact the girl this year that won it jody she was running around asking people what happens if this happens and what happens if this happens and you're like oh my god
00:28:53
UKRunChat
just got to go and do it haven't you? Yeah.
00:28:55
John Yelland
Yeah, yeah. Go and try it.
00:28:57
UKRunChat
yeah
00:28:57
John Yelland
and And that's the thing is go and try it. We had some good some guys from local running club this year um who came and tried it. And I think they showed, i mean, they they've got sort of 16 miles, 14, 16 miles in.
00:29:08
John Yelland
And, you know, they showed that it's possible for anybody to come and do and just have fun. And yeah, definitely.
00:29:14
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:29:16
John Yelland
Because there's no rules around pacing or anything like that.
00:29:16
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:29:18
John Yelland
You can have people run with you. Like there's a family that come and do it and their kids run around with them for the first few laps.
00:29:23
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, that's nice. Yeah.
00:29:24
John Yelland
Yeah.
00:29:25
UKRunChat
Real community of event there.
00:29:26
John Yelland
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:29:27
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:29:27
John Yelland
Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:29
UKRunChat
Yeah. So when, when is the next edition John and how can people sign up
00:29:31
John Yelland
It's.
Upcoming Events and Training Tips
00:29:33
John Yelland
Yeah. So we're just waiting on confirmation of a couple of things, but we're looking at the 27th of June next year. It will be on the website. So our website is madhatsportsevents.co.uk.
00:29:45
John Yelland
You can also go and have a look at other events if you say we want to. ah But yeah, 27th of September next year, um and we're hoping to make that a bigger bigger event next year. So a few more stands, because we have food there as well.
00:29:59
John Yelland
So food, coffee, I think the coffee shop makes more out of me than anybody else, to be fair.
00:30:04
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:04
John Yelland
We have massage for afterwards, which is often quite required.
00:30:10
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:10
John Yelland
ah But yeah, 27th, Mad Hat Sports event, and have a look at our socials as well.
00:30:15
UKRunChat
Yeah. And what are they? you want to tell?
00:30:18
John Yelland
So it's we're on Facebook and Instagram as Mad Hatsports Events.
00:30:18
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:30:21
John Yelland
If you look us up, it's just ah you'll you'll see the hat. So it's pretty obvious who we are.
00:30:26
UKRunChat
Yeah, okay. And in terms of somebody thinking about signing up for the first hourglass, any tips for how to train for it? Because you've mentioned that people often run further than they think they might.
00:30:36
John Yelland
Yeah, that's a really good one. um Never been asked that before, actually. How would I train for it? I think I would find a ah loop. of whatever distance and just gradually maybe try and do that loop with a reducing time limit by getting quicker almost doing sort of um speed session you know or reps with with reducing time limits that's the best way of doing it but but you're still having to cover long distance so it's it's it's a strange one to change for train for
00:31:06
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. I guess isn't that good.
Speculating Elite Performance
00:31:09
John Yelland
Because when i like when I did the three marathons in three days, my my aim there was, again, I was complete novice at the time. So I was training by doing three half marathons in three days. That's how I did it. And whether that worked or not is questionable.
00:31:23
John Yelland
But with this, yeah, I don't really know. Because you're going to have to, if you're if you're aiming to go longer, you're going to, well, you're aiming for longer for you. You're going to have to run fast at some point for you.
00:31:35
UKRunChat
Yeah, you are. Yeah.
00:31:37
John Yelland
um So to working on that top end speed would be good.
00:31:41
UKRunChat
Yeah, on tired legs. Yeah.
00:31:43
John Yelland
Yeah, on tired legs, yeah.
00:31:44
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:31:44
John Yelland
yeah And that's it, I mean, it's incredible. I'd love i'd love to know, was having a chat to a guy this year, and I'd love to know what is possible. So our course record for men is 36. Course record for females, unofficial 34, because she didn't get in the time, but 32 miles is the is the actual course record.
00:32:07
John Yelland
And there's a cash bonus for anybody that beats those. 200 pound cash bonus.
00:32:10
UKRunChat
Oh, there's a challenge for all you listening. Wow. Okay.
00:32:14
John Yelland
ah
00:32:14
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:32:14
John Yelland
So, but I do wonder what is actually possible. You know, if you had, I don't know, I then try and think of a elite level runner, you know, Elliot Kipchoge, for example, if not that he's said he's coming, but it'd be great if he did.
00:32:32
John Yelland
If he watches this, you're more than welcome.
00:32:33
UKRunChat
and like If you you're listening, yes.
00:32:35
John Yelland
Yeah, if you're listening, you're more than welcome. I'd love to know what what is physically possible and what what kind of athlete is best for it. Is it a marathon runner? Is it an ultra runner? Is it like a 400-meter, 800-meter runner?
00:32:50
John Yelland
Because they've got that top-end speed to get around, but can they sustain it for 36, 38 I'd to know what's possible.
00:32:50
UKRunChat
and
00:32:59
John Yelland
i'd love to know what's possible I'm not sure any, ah I don't think it, I think 40 miles is maybe possible, but I think 38 is probably the limit.
00:33:10
UKRunChat
Right.
00:33:13
John Yelland
That's my view.
00:33:14
UKRunChat
Yeah. Okay. Oh, well, maybe someone out there is thinking, I'm going to see what I can do here. yeah Yeah.
00:33:20
John Yelland
Yeah, because it's because the ultra runners, the, you know, various names I could mention, but that all of those guys and girls, you know, They run at a very good pace over a long distance, but do they have that top end speed to get down to six minute mile pace after that distance?
00:33:31
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:33:38
John Yelland
It's really intriguing kind of question, i think, for that top end.
00:33:41
UKRunChat
yeah If you could invite any celebrity to run it who who's getting the nod, any top ultra runner out there that you'd like.
00:33:45
John Yelland
Ooh.
00:33:49
John Yelland
Oh.
00:33:51
John Yelland
Well, I'm quite good friends with Kim Collison. I've been badgering him, but he's he's he's like...
00:33:56
UKRunChat
yeah
00:33:58
John Yelland
But I don't know. ah Yeah, I don't know. Someone that would help us grow the event. So I think, you someone who's a celebrity runner.
00:34:03
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:34:06
John Yelland
I mean, Gordon Ramsay lives down here. So, know, we could get him to come and do it. But I've been trying that for years and he's never once responded. So, yeah, don't know. Don't know. um Yeah, that's a really good question. I don't know. Just somebody who could help us.
00:34:22
John Yelland
But yeah, I mean, I'd love to, I'd love to kind of get some challenge going in between, know, track athletes, elite, elite track athletes, elite ultra runners, elite marathon runners and see who, who would be, who would go the furthest.
00:34:37
UKRunChat
yeah
00:34:37
John Yelland
But then It's not about the elites as well. It is, it's not.
00:34:39
UKRunChat
no
00:34:40
John Yelland
It's about everybody. it's It's just that intriguing question of how far people could go. But it is all about everybody going as far as they can and challenging themselves. and And the nice thing about Hourglass is that next year you can go back and go, right, I did five laps this year.
00:34:55
John Yelland
I'm going to do six laps next year. I'm going to try and do seven laps the year after. Where could I make up time? Because there is a little bit of a hill. There's a couple of hills, actually. Not massive, um but...
00:35:07
John Yelland
you know, where can I make up time? And every year the conditions are different. So if you've got a headwind or tailwind in a slight various different direction, then yeah, there's so many variables to it that it's different every year, I think, even though it's the same every year, if that makes sense.
00:35:22
UKRunChat
yeah yeah oh well thank you it's been really interesting hearing in about such a ah unique event um so it's well i'll we'll we'll try we'll see what we can do and we'll try listen us down shall we so if you're out there and thinking i fancy trying a different kind of
00:35:28
John Yelland
You need to come and do it next year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah
00:35:38
UKRunChat
challenge then get in touch so you can find John um and the race on Mad Hatter sports events and it's called the Hourglass race so yeah big big thank you for joining us and yeah if you've enjoyed this episode please be sure to follow subscribe and share and and thanks for listening and until next time happy running
00:35:46
John Yelland
Thank you for having me. Thank you.
00:36:01
John Yelland
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