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58. UFOs, Psychedelics, and the Boundaries of Perception
82 Plays1 year ago
As in this week’s episode, we’ve been covering a lot of UFO and UAP related topics as of late but there's a reason for that. Not only is it super interesting in general, the beauty of this topic is that it necessitates a profound re-examination of the ingrained paradigms that shape our perspective in virtually ever facet of life. This includes both physical and nonphysical reality when we take into consideration the technological implications, as well as its relation to consciousness. The way I see it, the inevitable convergence of science and spirituality is essential to forge a fresh cultural narrative and toolkit for comprehending the new reality that we are discovering. The prospect of this convergence ignites a captivating blend of curiosity and excitement within me, and I hope it does the same for you too.
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Music By Nathan Willis RIP
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Transcript
Introduction to UFOs and UAPs
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Pursuit of Infinity, a podcast where we explore the depths of human consciousness and delve into the fascinating world of psychedelics. As in this week's episode, we've been covering a lot of UFO and UAP related topics as of late, but there's a reason for that. Not only is it super interesting in general, but the beauty of this topic is that it necessitates a profound reexamination of the ingrained paradigms that shape our perspective in virtually every facet of life.
00:00:29
Speaker
This includes both physical and non-physical reality when we take into consideration the technological implications as well as its relation to consciousness.
Science and Spirituality Convergence
00:00:38
Speaker
The way I see it, the inevitable convergence of science and spirituality is essential to forge a fresh cultural narrative and toolkit for comprehending the new reality that we are discovering.
00:00:51
Speaker
The prospect of this convergence ignites a captivating blend of curiosity and excitement within me, and I really hope it does the same for you too.
Supporting the Podcast
00:01:00
Speaker
But before we get to it, as always, you can visit our website, pursuitofinfinity.com, where you can not only listen to the pod through our integrated media player, but also find all the places you can follow us.
00:01:13
Speaker
If you want to support the show, we really appreciate a follow, a sub, a five star rating, and a review. These things really help to boost our standing in the algorithms as well as the hearts and minds of our peers. Also in the description to this episode and all of our episodes, you'll find a link to a discord server invite.
00:01:32
Speaker
Within the server, there are several chat channels that anyone can join. So come on over and be a part of the discussion. But we also have some patron only channels that are extra special, including channels dedicated to mycology giveaways, live streams, and more.
00:01:50
Speaker
If you are an avid listener and you want to show the show some extra support, you can head over to patreon.com slash pursuit of infinity to become a patron and you'll get some great stuff in return. So head on over there for the details.
00:02:04
Speaker
And before I forget, we have a YouTube channel at youtube.com slash at pursuit of infinity. All of our episodes are always posted their video format, as well as an array of shorts that we've been putting together on a regular basis. Now with all that out of the way, thank you so much for listening and I hope you enjoy this week's episode.
Avi Loeb and UFO Entrepreneurship
00:02:37
Speaker
Oh, you know what I was listening to on the way up here? Uh, Avi Loeb was on PBD's podcast. Oh, I have to see that. I didn't see that yet. Cause I've never heard PBD, if for anybody who doesn't know Patrick Bet David, he's usually a guy that talks about entrepreneurship and politics. I've never heard him talk about aliens or UFOs. Well, real quick, let me interject. You're not going to believe this that he had Steven Greer on.
00:03:02
Speaker
PBD did yeah when he did it over like zoom. It was like maybe a couple years ago though I just found it in the archives like a little more recently, but he was like into it Yeah, but he had Steven Greer on On this podcast pretty interesting. That's great. Yeah, it's interesting to hear a guy like that
00:03:23
Speaker
talk to somebody who's involved with the UFO field, because when you hear Avi Loeb on a podcast, at least some of the ones that we listen to, it's usually people who are steeped in this stuff. But to hear a layman sort of go into stuff about UFOs and Amulamua and all that shit is pretty cool. And it's funny, the first thing he says in the podcast, he opens it up by saying,
00:03:46
Speaker
Now, I'm not the kind of guy that does mushrooms or smokes weed or any of that, but you guys might want to strap in and use this episode as your first time because, you know, it's some wild shit we get into. And that's awesome. Well, yeah, Avi Loeb is the he's the head of that Galileo project.
The Galileo Project: Independent UAP Research
00:04:05
Speaker
So he's like a Harvard physicist or something. He's just like this brilliant dude. But
00:04:12
Speaker
they're running the Galileo Project, which is supposed to be a civilian run operation to investigate UAP. So supposedly through their investigations, they're going to release everything. So it's not like a wall of government in front of you, but who knows? But did you, I'm sure they probably talked about this on that podcast, but did you hear about that discovery that was just made, that he made?
00:04:40
Speaker
Was it the flat object that was in the sky that they're seeing that the way that the sun reflects off of this object, it is as if it's flat and the sunlight itself is moving this object, right?
00:04:58
Speaker
though that's yeah that's a mua mua which is like he speculates it could be like uh some type of alien technology like could be ancient and just floating around out there because the way it moves and like you mentioned it kind of looks like the way it's moving could be through like solar sails um and it changed direction so there's like a lot of weirdness around that object
Extraterrestrial Discoveries
00:05:21
Speaker
Um, but that's not, there was like a newer thing that he, he was into. I'm not like super informed on it, but, um, but yeah, a moo moo was what got him pretty much into this. And he caught a lot of flack for kind of speculating that it could be, you know, something from another solar system. Like it came into our solar system and it doesn't have like the traditional traits of like a, you know, just like a, any other space rock.
00:05:49
Speaker
But recently, they've been talking about – so at some point, there was an object that was tracked that hit Earth, and it hit the ocean. And it was, I guess, traveling at a ridiculous speed.
00:06:08
Speaker
And so he initially speculated like, okay, he looked at everything about it and said, this doesn't make sense to be something from our solar system. This must have come out of our solar system and hit our planet, which is, we've never actually observed any material from outside of our solar system, believe it or not. We've never had that happen. I mean, our solar system is humongous, like think about it.
00:06:34
Speaker
He said, okay, this could be some alien tech. This could be, you know, they're thinking outside the box. And he said, okay, we track this thing coming in. It hit the ocean.
00:06:48
Speaker
And so we know where it is, so we're going to go look for it. And everybody that follows like UFOs, everyone, UFO community is like, okay, well, that's just stupid because if it is a UFO, it's not going to be waiting for you in that same spot in the ocean. Um, but he was like, you know, he doesn't listen to any of that. He's like, we're going to look for it. So they used like a ton of resources to find this and.
00:07:13
Speaker
Turns out, just very recently, they found something in that spot.
Open-Source UAP Data
00:07:18
Speaker
And it's not like a... It's a material that they have confirmed is outside that originated from outside of our solar system. So it is regardless of alien tech or anything. It's like a massive discovery because we've never analyzed the material from outside the solar system. So they looked at it and it's just this very strange material.
00:07:42
Speaker
and he showed it on camera like he has like little pieces of it in a little like test tube and it's weird it's like these little metallic balls like they are like little tiny spheres and so this is like real new this is like a pretty new discovery
00:07:59
Speaker
So they are like, still analyzing it, still don't know what it is, still like, you know, it's just brand new. But what he has speculated on it is like that this could be a manufactured material. So it may not, it may have some type of strange alien origin. So it's some weird meta material, which is often associated with UFOs, like when people recover material from a supposed crash, like they get these strange metals with like,
00:08:30
Speaker
weird isotope ratios that don't occur in nature and would cost billions of dollars to create by humans. And even if we did create these metamaterials, we don't understand currently what the purpose would be to do that. Why would we invest billions of dollars to create a piece of metal that we don't understand the capabilities of?
00:08:52
Speaker
So this, but yeah, they found this stuff and so far, you know, there's still going to be more info coming out about it. But that was Avilobe's like newest stuff I heard him talk about with the Galileo project.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think he goes into that a little bit. I'm only about a half hour into the episode, and I think right in the beginning they did mention that soon he has a big announcement to make, which I'm assuming is part of the identification of this medal.
00:09:23
Speaker
i guess they found it in the pacific ocean and he had described how they use microscopes essentially to understand more about the outside the universe space which is pretty cool because you would think that.
00:09:39
Speaker
when you dive deep into the ocean, you find a material and you're using like a little, you know, something that measures the tiny, you wouldn't really get much of an insight about what's out there. But in this circumstance, that's what you're going to get. And I love this because
00:09:57
Speaker
It's not just us waiting for our government to disclose information to us. And it's not us looking up in the sky and wondering when we're going to see something. This is an actual scientist who doesn't work for the government, who is trying to open source or outsource the research of this material. Like you said, he's going to be releasing this stuff to the public. There's no congressional wall in between the information and us.
00:10:25
Speaker
Yeah, the Galileo project is pretty awesome, actually. It's like, Lou Elizondo is involved in it. So there's like a lot of interesting people involved. And it's, you know, you hear Avi Loeb talk about this, and he rarely ever speaks of kind of what's going on right now in the UFO conversation, like,
Scientific Sensors for UAP Data
00:10:47
Speaker
Entities visiting earth he's always interested in things like a moo moo for instance like objects that are tangible on he's in like for instance something that hit the planet and went in the water he doesn't really talk about like ufo is flying around he's just kind of looking for new materials things like that so
00:11:09
Speaker
His aspect in the Galileo project is more, you know, as you would guess, like physical science based, just not too much looking for tic tacs flying around the skies. But also the cool thing about the Galileo project is, from what I understand, they are setting sensors up and like,
00:11:28
Speaker
high tech equipment and all over the earth in like certain areas like just pretty much the best equipment you could use to, you know, kind of catch a UFO. Because like for instance, one of the like you hear a lot of people complain about like the military videos like the FLIR videos of these UFOs and people are like,
00:11:53
Speaker
just unsatisfied with it. But what they're not realizing is, or just not really paying any attention to, is that these are weapon systems. These aren't scientific instruments.
00:12:04
Speaker
on these airplanes, the things that are catching these UFOs in military scenarios. So people have to understand that in these instances, we're going to be limited because these aircraft aren't scientific instruments. They're battle weapons. They're used to destroy. And so what they're doing now at the Galileo project is actually using scientific instruments. So whatever they do gather from that should be more full of information. It should be
00:12:33
Speaker
It should just be better info than, you know, because our fighter pilots, you know, we're sitting here like we want to know more, but they're not out there with scientific instruments trying to gather info on this stuff.
00:12:44
Speaker
So the Galileo Project is pretty awesome, but something that there's like a little red flag about it is that not too long ago, I think it was Avi Loeb with the Galileo Project put out a paper, a scientific paper with Sean Kirkpatrick, I think his name is Sean Kirkpatrick, who is
00:13:08
Speaker
the head of the Arrow program, which is a government-led program, and they put out a paper together about the possibility of there being like a mothership outside the solar system or somewhere that sends like drones to our planet to observe us.
Military vs. Scientific UAP Research
00:13:31
Speaker
There was no like, it was purely theoretical, so it wasn't like a
00:13:35
Speaker
Uh, then saying like, this is what's happening. Some people took it like that with the headlines that were put out, but
00:13:43
Speaker
Personally, I get a little weird feeling when hearing the Galileo project teaming up with Kirkpatrick because right now he has a lot of like bad air floating around him. By the way, he's reacted to the hearings and the whistle blowers. There's been a lot of negative feedback from whistle blowers about Arrow. So the Galileo project seems fantastic and I hope that they kind of stick to their word and release data and
00:14:11
Speaker
remain completely open with the public, but if there's some links to the government there, it's not great.
00:14:19
Speaker
And that's the problem. This is a scientific issue. This shouldn't be a military issue. The fact that Arrow is a Pentagon military industrial complex program to me is just a problem. This isn't something that we should be handling with our military. It should be something that our scientists are looking into and that would lead to it being shared to the public.
00:14:41
Speaker
There wouldn't be this national security guys that they like to hide behind when they talk about whether or not they're going to release information that was gathered via our tax dollars to us. They say, oh, this is national security. Because I feel like they're looking at it from the perspective of trying to defend against something.
00:15:05
Speaker
more than likely they're looking into whether or not these things are from China, Russia, other superpowers in the world, as opposed to curiosity driving the discovery of something that could be, you know, more magical or mystical, or just out of our realm of possibility that we would normally think of. But that's why I am on board with the Galileo project, because again, it's funded,
00:15:34
Speaker
Not by our tax dollars. There is no government incentive to keep it quiet because there's no government control or oversight. This is strictly through Harvard, right? I mean, I think it's like even it's just broader than that. But probably I know Avi Loeb is a Harvard guy. So I don't know specifically. But like I said, Lou Elizondo is involved. There's a lot of I think even like Nick Pope is involved. I'm not 100% sure about that. But there are a lot of interesting people involved with it.
00:16:05
Speaker
And like you mentioned a minute ago, like that you like it because they're looking at it from the scientific angle. But see, mainly what we're getting is kind of what you mentioned, why we're hearing this threat narrative so much is because we are being fed in the public, not so much of the scientific angle, we're looking at it through the military angle, the military disclosure. And so naturally, it's in the military's interest to
00:16:33
Speaker
promote—it doesn't have to promote, but look into a threat narrative. It's their job. That's their frame of mind. You're not gonna—when you have government Pentagon programs looking into something, they're not going to be looking at it through a spiritual aspect or a scientific aspect. They're looking to see what it is. Is it a threat? If it isn't a threat, how do we get it? How do we manipulate it to create weaponry and defense systems? Things like that. But
00:17:02
Speaker
So we're getting a very limited aspect of the topic, like of UFOs. We're just getting basically a military disclosure, which is pretty untrustworthy and very limited in scope of how they're looking at it and analyzing it.
00:17:17
Speaker
Whereas there are so many angles to look at it, like you just said with the Galileo project, it's the scientific angle, which is, you know, one step better. But then I think the next angle to look at it, which would be, I think the most important is like the spiritual
UAPs and Unified Religion
00:17:33
Speaker
angle. What does it mean like ontologically? So I think
00:17:37
Speaker
Slowly we will have to move toward that eventually. I mean it's interesting you see the Vatican taking steps in looking at this too. So like there are so many different angles to look at this subject and analyze it and it seems in America we are basically hyper focused on just the one way, the military way, the threat narrative.
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah, I always think about this through the terms of spirituality and religions and ways of thinking that have been cultivated over thousands and thousands of years and whether or not
00:18:18
Speaker
the whole phenomenon could delegitimize certain modes of spiritual thought. And that is sort of a scary thought to me as well, because I do feel very comfortable within the spiritual path and spiritual beliefs that I have witnessed and felt and am educating myself in.
00:18:40
Speaker
And it would be really interesting, not necessarily bad, but interesting to me how my beliefs would change and what trajectory my life would take and a lot of other people's lives would take if
00:18:54
Speaker
the UFO UAP non-human intelligence phenomenon sort of delegitimizes religion. But it almost feels to me like it will create a new religion. Maybe it'll create more of a unified religion between people and hopefully shed some light on some of the things that our limited biological form can't discover or can't see.
00:19:22
Speaker
And like you just said, how it could create a new religion. Well, Diana Pasulka, who is a religious studies professor, that's the angle that she's looking at this as. She actually views this when she entered the topic of UFOs. She was a, I guess, non-believer. She's just a religious studies professor. And she looked at this topic and found it very interesting and said,
00:19:51
Speaker
This is the modern religion. This is a new belief system. It has its mecca of Roswell. It has everything that a religion has. And then the deeper that she looked into it, she found some tangibility to it. And now, for a book or two later, she's a believer in the topic, but she still holds those
00:20:14
Speaker
Beliefs linking it to a religion because you can't really doubt that it is it has all aspects of a religion And so she started even looking back through, you know religions of the past like, you know Christianity and
00:20:29
Speaker
Catholicism, all that. And what she determined was that it could be possible that this modern UFO religion is – they're all the same religion, that they were all actually looking at the same thing and describing it in different ways through whatever lens the culture was at the time. So – because there's like some very strange
00:20:51
Speaker
encounters in the Bible and basically all religions that you could look at and kind of determine as non-human intelligence or aliens, whatever you want to call it. Even in Islam, they have the jinn, which is kind of exactly what the phenomenon displays as. It just seems like it's talking directly about the phenomenon.
00:21:15
Speaker
So this could be something, one singular thing that's been with us forever that we've been observing and creating religions around, at least aspects of it.
Shamanism and UFOs
00:21:28
Speaker
There's one religious mode of thought, though, that is counter to a lot of the things that are related to or related between Western religions and the UFO phenomenon. And to me, that's shamanism. I've been doing a deep, deep dive on shamanism through the Blue Morpho Academy.
00:21:49
Speaker
I just, I don't know where this type of phenomenon would intersect with the shamanic modes of thought because we're currently looking at disclosure from the perspective of nuts and bolts, what's here physically, what we can see in the sky, what we can touch, what certain companies have been able to maybe back engineer, but
00:22:14
Speaker
We really don't know if there's any relationship between these things and consciousness, any relationship between these things, and whatever is on the flip side of this reality, the thing that maybe like the, the place you go when you die, call it soul land or something like that.
00:22:36
Speaker
And I wonder if there's any relation between those things and if we're going to get any answers as to what it might be. See, and this is this is one of the things that I absolutely love about this topic. Like, see, I look at it sometimes in a way as it being a teacher. This phenomenon is like almost teaching us a thing. Because like you said, it's like we're looking at the nuts and bolts version of this and like how does it
00:23:02
Speaker
fall in with shamanism and the spiritual and the non-physical, and I think it's blending the lines between mind and matter, that necessarily that physicality
UFOs: Mind and Matter
00:23:16
Speaker
is mind. So it presents itself in a way that like it would be mind-blowing to see something in front of you that seems like it's an aspect of consciousness but it leaves behind quote-unquote physical matter, the nuts and bolts, the craft. So it's like I think it is teaching like a metaphysical lesson in a sense. Maybe it's not its intent but it I think that could be its effect on us.
00:23:42
Speaker
that as human beings we could learn about the metaphysical nature of reality through this topic by seeing this and it's showing us something that shouldn't exist in our current paradigm, our understanding of a quote-unquote material world. So I think by studying this it could
00:24:00
Speaker
really shift our entire paradigm and release us from the physicalist paradigm into a more idealist, transcendent mental reality. So it would blend like, you know, blend the nuts and bolts with the consciousness aspect and then you get consciousness basically. That all is consciousness essentially. So I think that kind of said a little weird but I think that this could be
00:24:30
Speaker
It could teach us a very essential lesson about reality because if it is what we think it is, if it's a real thing that people are seeing behave this way, it doesn't fit into our current understanding of reality at all.
00:24:47
Speaker
And, you know, the phenomenon is broader than just UFOs and physical craft. People see impossible things, and then these impossible things often leave physical traces. So it is blending those two lines, in my
Challenging Scientific Paradigms
00:25:02
Speaker
opinion. I think it could teach that lesson to transcend mind and matter to capital M mind.
00:25:10
Speaker
It opens up and extends the possible questions we can ask in terms of defining what reality is. Because it blows everything to pieces. Because if something can travel at breakneck speeds, turn on a dime, and do some of the craziness that we're seeing these UFOs do,
00:25:33
Speaker
Then that begs the question, what's the technology? And if we do have that type of technology, and if we can even define what that technology is, it breaks apart the current scientific paradigm that we've been brought up under, which has been based in a foundation of space time.
00:25:52
Speaker
And if you can manipulate gravity, as they say, then what is space time space time is a it kind of falls apart as a fundamental property of the universe, or at least it falls apart as a fundamental property of reality.
00:26:07
Speaker
Because what this also does is it brings to question dimensionality. I've heard of really, really interesting explanation of the way that these non-human intelligences, non-human organisms, whatever you'd like to call them, sort of project their higher dimensional form onto our lower dimension.
00:26:30
Speaker
If you're standing somewhere in the sun, you project your shadow onto the ground, which is a two dimensional surface. It's almost like you're projecting your image onto a two dimensional plane. So if you use the same type of.
00:26:45
Speaker
rationale, you could say a higher dimensional being a higher dimensional, whatever, it's hard to even say what it is, because we we define things based off of shape and size and all of that. So it's hard, it's hard to even put a label on it. But whatever this thing might be in the higher dimension,
00:27:02
Speaker
could be casting its shadow onto our dimension. And what I like to think of it as is if you go into a psychedelic experience, if you smoke DMT, you take a high enough dose of psilocybin, you may or may not come into contact with an entity. And when you come into contact with an entity, it's almost as if you're going into their world, into their reality. So you're seeing them for who they are, for what they are in their truest form, and they look
00:27:31
Speaker
fucking wild indescribable ineffable we consider them even reflections of deities so
00:27:41
Speaker
if you think of it like that, and then you say, well, maybe that's a higher dimension. Maybe the DMT dimension is a higher dimension. So if they were to cast their shadow as that weird, crazy looking thing into our dimension, it might show up as something we can identify, something that looks humanoid, like a gray alien, or something that looks like an airplane, like a flying saucer.
Higher Dimensional Beings and Reality
00:28:08
Speaker
These things are very reminiscent of
00:28:11
Speaker
biological things that we can see on our planet as well as physically created nuts and bolts things that have come from the human mind. So to me, that's a pretty interesting way of thinking about it. I like that it sounds cool. It's a bit romantic, but I like it.
00:28:28
Speaker
And if something like that were the case and it would be safe to say that what we're seeing isn't all of the thing itself. I mean you could say that for just about everything we're limited to our perceptions and our senses. But when you see let's say a UFO, you see the object.
00:28:47
Speaker
you're only seeing what the shadow that it's casting into the third dimension so you're not seeing the entirety of what it is you're only seeing as much as you can basically and as much as it can show in our realm and there this kind of to me fits with some experiences that people have said to have where you know experiencers who have said to been taken aboard craft this has you know been reported
00:29:15
Speaker
multiple times, you know, many times enough that you would take note of it that sometimes, you know, a craft would be, you know, the size of like, you know, maybe a large truck or something, and they get taken into it. And then on the inside, it appears to be like the size of a warehouse.
00:29:36
Speaker
So that would, I think, somewhat align with the idea that what we're seeing isn't the actual thing, the full thing itself. We're not seeing all its dimensions, all its size, because people who have experiences with them…
00:29:51
Speaker
Their experiences are what we would consider impossible going inside a small object and being in a large space so I kind of lean toward what you're saying and it being.
Alien Space-Time Understanding
00:30:04
Speaker
Extra dimensional I just I don't see it being as simple as.
00:30:10
Speaker
you know, physical, quote-unquote, physical aliens coming from a different planet. And especially because, let's say, if that were the case, I would imagine these things would be so intelligent that they would understand the aspects of space-time. Where, like, we as human beings understand
00:30:32
Speaker
I mean, maybe not, but from what we do understand, we know that it's not – it's proven to not be fundamental, so it is relative. And so even saying, you know, a planet that would be so far away,
00:30:51
Speaker
technically isn't. Everything would exist in one space basically because there is only one really. So I could see them looking at reality in an entirely different way where distance isn't actually an obstacle. So maybe that's how they would have technology to just
00:31:10
Speaker
I don't know what you would call like a wormhole, something like that. But either way, they would have to be to get here to show what they have shown us. They'd have to be so highly advanced that they would not be bound by our idea of space-time.
00:31:27
Speaker
And you'd have to think that they would have a grasp on consciousness and what that is. And they probably have a deeper grasp of what you just said and what we like to say often as this whole thing being one.
UAPs and Spiritual Growth
00:31:45
Speaker
So I would think they would have.
00:31:48
Speaker
a deeper understanding of what that means, a deeper understanding of our connection to everything, of their connection to us, our connection to them, maybe their connection to earth. And this is why I don't think there's a sense of malevolence coming from them.
00:32:08
Speaker
This whole notion that they're a threat again, you said that this is because it's coming from the military and I think that's exactly right. We have a military mindset in this country and all of the superpowers of the world have a military mindset because we have to we've got to defend ourselves and all this and it's a big giant mess.
00:32:31
Speaker
But why would an extra dimensional or higher intelligent being have the same notion of reality? I don't think it would, especially if it has a deeper understanding of what it means to be connected as one. So for me,
00:32:49
Speaker
I'm really, really excited and hopeful in terms of what this could mean for the potential of our growth as people, our spiritual understanding. A lot of the researchers that are knee deep in this stuff are working for defense contractors.
00:33:12
Speaker
then that leads me to think if there is contact, like say there is an organization
Intelligent Beings: Malevolent or Unified
00:33:21
Speaker
of beings, whether it be from another planet, another dimension that has the ability or is trying to communicate with us, who is the human ambassador for what we're presenting? Manny Pacquiao. Manny Pacquiao.
00:33:38
Speaker
I want to actually throw like a little curve ball at the malevolent thing because I think about this too. And it's like, because my initial instinct is to agree and say, if they are so enlightened and advanced, then they would. Why would they be malevolent? And then I think about what we.
00:34:00
Speaker
consider malevolence. So I think what is happening in reality, what reality does, what it's doing, even if it takes a step backwards, it's always taking two steps forward. So I think it's consistently we're moving toward a unity. And I think that would be the absolute good unity.
00:34:20
Speaker
So I think there could be many, many different methods to get there that we might consider malevolent, but it's still moving toward a unity. And like this is like you could even look at it in our world right now what's happening.
00:34:36
Speaker
when you look at like the World Economic Forum, right? Klaus Schwab. They want to do all this one world government stuff that we consider malevolent. It's not good for us in our senses, but that is one half of the way to move toward a unity. What they are doing is trying to move toward a unity. So it is still in the absolute good to move together as one, even by force.
00:34:59
Speaker
So I think that there is a polar sense from our perspective that there will always be a good way and a bad way to do the ultimate good, which would be moved toward the unity. And I think what you see happening on Earth right now is a perfect example of that. We have a battle happening for unity in how we get there with the World Economic Forum and globalists being what most people would consider malevolent
00:35:28
Speaker
They are still working towards the absolute good of a unity. So that either way, we could consider whatever method they choose to move toward unity, whatever our part is in non-human intelligence's role, it could be considered malevolent by us. You know what I mean?
00:35:48
Speaker
So what I consider malevolent. So let's say we do one of those exercises where you have malevolent on one side and benevolent on the other side, and you list a bunch of words that would go with each of them. That would make sense. So we'll say some of the words that we would put under the malevolent side would be greed, corruption, nonsensical violence, hierarchical oppression.
00:36:20
Speaker
And then on the other side, the benevolent side, you have things like love, unity, wisdom, beauty, things like that. Those to me are the two polarities of benevolent and malevolent. When you look at what matters to the people who are.
Unity Intentions: Good or Evil
00:36:37
Speaker
Running the world economic forum you can say yes you know they're going toward the ultimate good which is unity in a certain way. But. What's motivating them what are their goals. Where would you put them. On the menu on the malevolent or benevolent side on what's on what list do you do you put the world economic forum.
00:36:59
Speaker
And to me, you know, they, they feed on greed, oppression, corruption, lies, all that kind of stuff. So I do think it matters what your intentions are, what your goals are in terms of whether or not you could be considered malevolent or benevolent. I don't think it's just
00:37:22
Speaker
unity because you can have different types of unity. And I think that if you describe the contents of that unity or the aspects of that unity, then you can get to the bottom of whether or not it's malevolent or benevolent.
00:37:37
Speaker
Well, I would say that they're not really lying. They've actually been laying out exactly what they want to do. And I would say from their perspective, it is not malevolent. It's only malevolent to us because it affects what we protect most, which is our survival. We think it's going to harm our survival. But in the grand scheme of things, it could be the right thing because it's bringing us toward unity.
00:38:00
Speaker
Well, lies were only one of the things in that list. What about the corruption, the oppression? There's lots of different things that they are adhering to that would go under that level. What is the corruption? Well, using the government as a tool to pass legislation the same way massive corporations have always done, and also the defense contractor
00:38:24
Speaker
the way that they abuse war. We get into wars that our government lies to us about in order to get us into this war just to perpetuate the production of these weapons. So to me that there's so much in there that you have to identify as malevolent.
00:38:45
Speaker
But all that stuff happens regardless of the goal of, for instance, the World Economic Forum. See, when the action of war takes place, the end result isn't always going to be unity, but sometimes it is. And even so, like I said, we only…
00:39:04
Speaker
view it as malevolent because of our initial, our ego, our survival. But even, let's say, you know, two countries go to war, eventually, you know, they many times will just become one. And I think we get so wrapped up in
00:39:20
Speaker
the human side of it, just our idea of what's good for our survival and what's not. But I think the end goal is always going to be the same no matter how we get there. It's still all just pushing toward unity, whichever way it happens, whether it's good for your life or what you consider good for your life or not.
00:39:41
Speaker
see them as, I see them as totally relative to the person sitting there speaking about it, basically. So that's what I mean. You could, I guarantee you, I could find plenty of people who are totally down for the World Economic Forum, for the 15 minute cities, for the, their actions on climate change, for all this stuff. There's plenty of people who think that's the ultimate good. It's just totally relative. So that's what I'm saying. There could be, uh,
00:40:08
Speaker
a force of a non-human intelligence that threatens your immediate survival, so you say that's malevolent, but in the end, nothing is really malevolent because it's all going to move toward a unity. That's kind of what my point was.
00:40:26
Speaker
I understand that but I'm not basing malevolence off of the potential for the danger in my life when I'm basing malevolence off of our motivations are the true nature of what you're doing the the true nature of how you're doing it.
00:40:44
Speaker
You know, I'm sure a million times you've heard, you know, some form of the expression, it's not about the end goal, it's about the journey, how you get there. That's the details. The devil is in the details. And to me, it's super important.
00:41:00
Speaker
especially for something that's not an animal. We harbor a high level of consciousness, and I think that we need to take responsibility for that high level of consciousness. That's where the malevolence comes in. I don't think that a higher being would have the motivations
00:41:24
Speaker
that would lead them to take the same types of approaches as the World Economic Forum. I think they would take an approach that is more deeply rooted in wisdom, in conservation of nature, conservation of the soul, the spirit, things like that. Because that whole thing, that entire side is missing from the World Economic Forum types.
00:41:52
Speaker
I would say that that's totally relative. My point was basically that there actually is no malevolence. If you can line up thousands and thousands of people that will argue you to death about that and say that your perspective is the malevolence and the World Economic Forum is going to save the planet,
00:42:09
Speaker
There is actually no malevolence. There's only you creating the malevolence by pointing at it and saying that's what it is. Really, my point would be it is regardless always going to be good for somebody and good for usually large majorities of people and that is because it will move toward a unity.
Unity: Benevolence vs. Malevolence
00:42:31
Speaker
So I think the same thing, basically, I kind of use the World Economic Forum as an example, but it's supercharged, so maybe it's not the best example. But I could see something of a different species, of a different kind than us, easily falling into a category of that sort, where it has a good so much higher than our ability to acknowledge that we might not understand the moves to get there, that we think, oh, that's bad, but they are so far above us.
00:43:00
Speaker
Like, for instance, I think we've talked about this before, like considering, you know, kind of speaking in physicalist terms, like imagine that
00:43:11
Speaker
instead of using the word God or something, saying the mind of the universe. If the mind of the universe is always moving toward good, if that mind throws a rock at the earth, it doesn't make the mind malevolent because the mind moving toward good knows what's best more than us little organisms on the rock, on the planet.
00:43:31
Speaker
So that's kind of what I was trying to get at through a higher mind, possibly using us in a way toward a greater good that we can't even possibly understand to be the greater good.
00:43:47
Speaker
Sure, sure. And again, philosophically, I totally get what you're saying. But I think that to just say, well, that's relative, and then that's the end of it. I don't think that's an honest representation of the importance of what I'm trying to say that these beings would be if they were malevolent or benevolent, because the fact of the matter is, there's going to be some
00:44:16
Speaker
some degree of malevolence or benevolence in a being that has consciousness. There's got to be something. And if you take a look at humans, I think we're a good example of it. We're a balance. It's almost like we're moving more toward benevolence as we grow and as we evolve consciously. But when you think about
00:44:42
Speaker
the way that we treat other biological entities on this planet. You can see when we treat things in a way that leads to disaster, to chaos, there's always malevolent intent behind those actions.
Human Complexity and Higher Beings
00:45:04
Speaker
But when we do things to, say, conserve nature, save a particular species from something, when we do things that add to the planet, that add growth, you can see that those things are motivated by benevolent motivations. So I think that they're still super important to consider.
00:45:26
Speaker
And you know, I hear the Elon Musk thing where he talks about AI where he's like, oh, you know, if there's an anthill in the middle of a spot that we want to pave a road that anthill is going to be no more. We're going to pave right over that thing.
00:45:41
Speaker
But again, you could trace that back to malevolence. You could trace that back to uninformed populace making a decision based off of capital gain or something like that. Whereas I don't think that those type of value systems would translate to a higher dimensional being.
00:46:01
Speaker
But like even when you do the Belevalent Act of giving a loved one some flowers, you still you killed the flowers. So that's a malevolent act to the flower. So that's why I'm saying the relativity of it. I don't think our idea of it could be like absolute because all I'm saying is your initial point was that you.
00:46:23
Speaker
didn't see how they could be malevolent and I was just making the point of throwing a curveball and saying I could see it an easy way that we could consider them malevolent without them actually being malevolent. That's kind of all I'm getting at. I'm not saying that um that they have to be either one. I'm just saying it
00:46:46
Speaker
That all depends on what we decide them to be, really. That's just my perspective on it. I agree with what you said on the surface of it. I feel the same way. I was just kind of playing a devil's advocate and saying, well, maybe we could interpret them as being malevolent when they're actually not, and we just can't understand it. I 100% agree. Philosophically, I could 100% see that as being something we could find ourselves in.
00:47:14
Speaker
Yeah, but if I were going to bet on it, I would go with your bet and say most likely they would at least have some alignment with that good that we attach ourselves, the higher good, and hopefully recognize that in us and not use us in some strange way that we don't understand that we would consider definitely leveling.
00:47:42
Speaker
the point basically, it's all good. We're moving to the unity. Yeah, I mean, but also, you know, a counterpoint to mine would be just because they're a higher level of consciousness doesn't mean that they're going to be benevolent. That's just my rosy glasses, my rose colored glasses way of looking at things. They could have a higher level of consciousness and a higher degree of violence and a higher degree of
00:48:07
Speaker
of insanity or something who knows we have no idea no conception of what they could possibly be but just the way that I look at it again you know it seems like we're both taking the bet that they're probably more benevolent because they might be more wise but you never know man but and that's the thing like even if you know they show up and they were like what we consider full-blown malevolent
00:48:31
Speaker
They don't think they are, you know what I mean? So that's kind of the relative part of it. So who knows? But let's hope they're not because if like some higher intelligence were to come here with some like a malicious intent, that would be the ultimate hell. I think about this too because
00:48:55
Speaker
People often say when you're interested in the UFO topic or aliens or just another non-human intelligence here, they're like, oh, you're just saying this because you want to believe. Like that's a thing you hear a lot. And I'm sure that's the case with a lot of people, but I think that's the case with a lot of people who don't really think about it that hard because I don't know if I want to believe because I'm not convinced that they will absolutely be benevolent.
Sinister UFO Intentions
00:49:21
Speaker
I am convinced that they are absolutely benevolent which that regardless we're moving towards the unity but they could be some sneaky you know like our cons manipulating our minds like it could be something very horrifying to a human being you know.
00:49:38
Speaker
It's not just like, oh, I want to believe they're here. Because if they are here, they could be doing something that we would consider very sinister. So I don't think it's as simple as like, oh, I just want to believe. It's cool to believe. I think the more you think about it, there could be a lot of sinister undertones of what's going on here.
00:49:57
Speaker
Yeah, man, at every level of life, there's manipulation. There's whatever the opposite of a symbiotic relationship is. I'm not sure the word. But for us to think that stops with us and above, probably not. And, you know, we always talk about like, people talk about, well, the government is like hiding it from us. It's like, yeah, fuck the government. Why are they hiding this?
00:50:22
Speaker
Beyond that, if they are here, they are hiding from us. It's up to them. So that's a little freaky. That's a little sneaky that these things are just hiding from us but still here. So like, you know, it could go many different ways.
00:50:41
Speaker
Or they're trying really, really hard to communicate with the ants on earth. Because again, me and you talk about this quite a bit. If we were to try to communicate a point to an ant, we could not do it as hard as we tried. We could not get into that ant's head, share its consciousness and transmit the ideas through language or whatever.
Communicating with Higher Beings
00:51:04
Speaker
So maybe it's really difficult for a higher dimensional being to tell us what it's trying to tell us.
00:51:11
Speaker
or even to show itself to us. It's always possible. And let's say, you know, because you hear stories of experiencers who say that they have had direct communication.
00:51:23
Speaker
And then a lot of them will have what they would consider basically a spiritual experience with an entity and having a direct communication. But let's say these things are here and communicating with certain people. We can't trust them necessarily. We can't know if they're telling us the truth.
00:51:43
Speaker
Um, it's like, for instance, like with your dog, like if your dog is outside, doesn't want to come in and you're like, I need to get this dog inside.
Spiritual Communication with Entities
00:51:51
Speaker
You're like, oh, come on. I got a snack. You want to go get a snack? And then the dog will follow you in and maybe you just don't have snacks at that time.
00:51:58
Speaker
So it could be a lot of trickery happening. You never know. With the phenomenon in general, there seems to be a trickster aspect that's known and talked about a lot.
Trickster Nature of UFOs
00:52:10
Speaker
Like for instance with the skinwalker ranch stuff or just many aspects of it. Because the paranormal kind of fall into this as well. It all kind of blends into what people call the phenomenon.
00:52:21
Speaker
And a lot of these unexplainable experiences people have and strange things that happen tend to have a trickster-like aspect to it. And even the same goes for a lot of like DMT experiences. There seems to be a little bit of a trickster aspect that people experience. So this thing, it bleeds out into so many different areas. So it's hard to grasp all of it and make even one definitive comment.
00:52:50
Speaker
I love the trickster aspect too, because that's one of the things that merges all these interesting topics together. Everything that's mysterious in this world has a trickster aspect to it. All of the things that we love spirituality, DMT mushrooms, you know, even spiritual teachers and spiritual gurus, they all have this like trickster nature to them. So again, to me, it almost leads to wisdom, like all the wisdom
00:53:17
Speaker
in this reality seems to have that little trickster aspect of it. And to me, that's like, it's poking fun at the seriousness that is the material world that we're taking so seriously. And yeah, even like,
00:53:33
Speaker
reality itself is like a trickster because the paradoxical nature of it, the strange loopiness, the paradox that is reality is like a trickster at its core. It's like you can't escape it. Because a paradox is kind of like the embodiment of a trickster in a sense.
00:53:56
Speaker
And I think that is basically another thing that is basically fundamental to our reality.
00:54:04
Speaker
I agree. Everything is paradox. It all is. And it's all a cosmic giggle. Have you heard that before? The cosmic giggle. That rings so true, especially when you start to go down these wisdom traditions or have a psychedelic experience. You know, the fun part about some of these psychedelic experiences is that they're like so bad sometimes, but then they go up this roller coaster of being so good. And that in itself is like a trickster thing because it's like you could be caught in this hell
00:54:33
Speaker
But then all it takes is a little tweak of the brain or maybe you put on some different music and then it becomes something beautiful. That to me is a trickster in itself and also a paradox.
00:54:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I've had, you know, I think most people who have had a psychedelic experience recognize that. Especially for me, I haven't necessarily had the trickster element in DMT yet, but I've definitely had it with mushrooms like multiple times.
00:55:08
Speaker
And I don't want to actually say that I've never had it with DMT because the weird thing is like my first two DMT experiences. I can't quite remember them. It's strange. Like I, for some reason, the first two are like a blur. I don't know. Could have been there.
00:55:27
Speaker
Yeah, mushrooms gives me the trickster archetype every, every time, especially when it's a deep, deep experience. It seems the deeper it goes, the more carnival like it gets. It's very odd.
00:55:42
Speaker
And even saying the more carnival it gets like it doesn't quite grasp it, but it really is that like gestury trickster personality and visual nature, the nature of the visuals are very carnival like there's a lot of bright colors and the patterns the way that they move. It's almost as if like we extracted the idea of carnivals and like a circus from the psychedelic experience.
00:56:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I was just I was just gonna say it's like I came first and I have a feeling that you know because when you think about like for instance like clowns jesters and their attire a carnival everything about it
00:56:25
Speaker
It's been around so long for us that when we think of it, we just think it's something we've always had. But the idea, the core came from somewhere. We had to pull it from something and manifest it in our physical realm. And this stuff has been around for quite a while. And I would argue that people probably had these tremendously powerful experiences and to celebrate wanted to bring it into our reality.
00:56:55
Speaker
Carnival is a celebration. It's like a festive thing. So I wouldn't doubt that that's where it came from. People having these experiences and then replicating it. Because with a clown, with a jester, people dress up like it and they embody a trickster. They play, they laugh, they trick you, all that. So I wouldn't doubt that's what happened.
00:57:20
Speaker
And these experiences are very celebratory a lot of times.
Psychedelic Laughter and Tricksters
00:57:26
Speaker
And a lot of times they are so hilarious, so funny. A lot of the aspects of the trip itself, while you're going through it, again, has that trickster nature to it, to where it's almost like the intelligence behind the mushroom, say, is playing tricks on you. They're playing jokes on you. And in order to teach you something or to show you something,
00:57:49
Speaker
And think about it i mean almost every time you take mushrooms there's at least a small portion that you spend just laughing hysterically there's a deep humor to these things.
00:58:01
Speaker
It's like, uh, it's like you've never laughed before. It's like, this is the funniest thing that has ever happened. My fiance and I, we always kind of joke with each other and say like, we each have a mushroom laugh. Uh, it's like a pure joy infant laugh that we don't even know how to do anymore unless we're under the influence of a psychedelic.
00:58:24
Speaker
yeah I could like you get laughing so hard that it's painful and then you're like I'm laughing so hard and then you want to like you just start laughing harder and harder and you know back to the uh trickster thing too it's like as I mentioned before that this phenomenon we'll call it the phenomenon as a whole like the paranormal aspect of it too like when you think of like uh
Poltergeist and Human Emotions
00:58:48
Speaker
uh poltergeist like things just floating or being thrown around a house like that is like an ultimate trickster and just but like as humans in our like regular state it strikes fear in us like so you just get so scared and then it kind of
00:59:07
Speaker
What they say is it kind of vamps up the trickster aspect. The more that you, people say the more that you react to that type of thing, the more you'll get it. Like if, if you see a book on a bookshelf move and if you get terrified of it, it might fly off the wall at you. People who've had like a poltergeist experiences. But if you don't react, it, depending on how you react will change how the phenomenon reacts.
00:59:37
Speaker
And it's interesting because that, that makes me wonder like how much of the physical and non-physical world is influenced by our intention.
00:59:50
Speaker
I mean, some people would say it absolutely is, like every aspect of it. And I think in a sense, even in a purely logical sense, it kind of has to be because no matter what happens, intention comes first.
Intention in Paranormal Experiences
01:00:06
Speaker
It's an automatic.
01:00:08
Speaker
you have to have intention. There's never an intentionless action, if that's a word. But yeah, so I mean, and I think, you know, people will swear by like focusing on intention will bring about results. And I think that makes sense. I mean, if you are, you know, just going through life without acknowledging your intentions, then maybe you'll get, you won't get the best results. Whereas if you focus
01:00:36
Speaker
wholeheartedly on the intention just by its nature you will be you know moving toward it further and harder I guess. That's why if you have a psychedelic experience within a setting of ceremony then it's very important to have an intention.
01:00:55
Speaker
especially if you go in there and it gets crazy and it's all wild, it does help to have an intention to ground you and set you on the path toward healing, if that's your goal, or even if your goal is exploration, safe exploration.
01:01:11
Speaker
And my psychedelic trips from my teenage years versus the last few years of midnight and day purely based on intention and knowledge gained through those intentions. That's why I have a pretty firm belief that over half the people who've taken psychedelics don't
01:01:34
Speaker
haven't really taken psychedelics because I know this from my experience because when I have taken psychedelics as a teenager and young adult as with my intention to just have fun, it's not the same thing as when you twist that intention into something deeper like metaphysical or something just deep within yourself. It changes the experience a thousand percent. I mean, regardless, you can have beautiful experiences, but it's not even close to the same thing. The intention changes it.
01:02:05
Speaker
1000% Yeah, intention is everything and that's why again I go back to What is the intention of these goddamn UFO alien things?
Floating Orbs and the Zoo Hypothesis
01:02:16
Speaker
Well, that's what like freaks me out when I like start to think about it like For instance, like we're seeing a lot of these They're just like metal orbs that just float. They're like a couple meters
01:02:32
Speaker
They're like anywhere from I think like a beach ball to a couple meters, not massive, just these solid metal metallic orbs that just float around and move around whatever. There's the Mosul orb, there's a photo of one that was released called the Mosul orb taken in Mosul, Iraq. And it was over a combat zone, which is interesting.
01:02:53
Speaker
And I'm seeing more and more of these and even Kirkpatrick, he released a video of one with Arrow. They released a video of one and he made the comment that these are actually being seen a lot. Like these are probably one of the most common ones that people are seeing or are being captured by military at least.
01:03:13
Speaker
or at least the one that they will tell us about. But when you think about it, just like these mysterious orbs just floating there, not doing anything necessarily, it's not obvious to us that it's
01:03:28
Speaker
doing a specific task it's just like sitting there watching it kind of like just gives me like Truman show vibes like there's like if there's like we we saw something you're not supposed to like you caught a camera in the sky like it's like what is this world what are these things doing
01:03:45
Speaker
And it kind of goes possibly into like the zoo hypothesis, which is basically that we humans are like, uh, another species zoo that they are watching over us, our caretakers in a sense, which, you know, it could be, it's a popular hypothesis, but that could be one of the things that they're doing here is, you know, we are their garden, perhaps, I don't know.
01:04:08
Speaker
I mean, at absolute least, it seems to be obvious that they've taken an interest in us and are observing us in some way.
01:04:18
Speaker
Yeah and I mean according to a lot of people that especially back anywhere from I would say probably especially like 70s, 80s, 90s is when like abductions were happening all the time. Like I don't want to say all the time but an extremely increased rate. Like you don't hear about it as much anymore.
01:04:40
Speaker
and almost every person with the abduction experience describes the same thing which was basically there was a hybridization aspect to it that it would involve taking a woman's eggs or a man's sperm and creating hybrid beings and
01:04:57
Speaker
It's interesting because this was thousands of abductees saying the same exact story before the internet, before it was like super popular. It was just like everybody saying the same thing. And then it kind of just stopped, which I find really interesting.
01:05:15
Speaker
Do you think that we are some sort of creation of a higher being or some sort of result of a hybridization project?
Human Origins and Ancient Texts
01:05:31
Speaker
At the moment I'm leaning toward yes because I think our entire history has been like a lie. The story that we are living in now was curated and I don't think it was our actual human history. Like there's a lot of evidence that the Romans basically destroyed the past. Like they destroyed all this Egyptian stuff and things before that and created
01:05:57
Speaker
a entire new mythology, a total new religion, and they were the rulers, so they told their version of the past, and then we live based on that narrative, which I don't think is actually true.
01:06:14
Speaker
Even the stories of the Bible are symbols that we live by today. We are flipped and reversed. Back thousands and thousands of years ago, the Sumerians, all these ancient cultures, they viewed the serpent as feminine and divine, and actually the eagle as more masculine and war-like.
01:06:36
Speaker
And we switched that in our symbolism where now you have the evil snake in the Garden of Eden. It's the evil. It's everything serpent related in our modern culture, Christianity, all that is related to a negative aspect.
01:06:55
Speaker
all fly the the eagle and you know it's something we kind of worship and aspire to and even it's interesting because when the the Spaniards conquered uh south america like the ancients in south america
01:07:12
Speaker
they worshiped back in this time they were still like the remnants of the Incas and Aztecs, they still worshiped the serpent. The Spaniards came over there, conquered them, and now what you see on the Mexican flag, you see an eagle having a serpent in its in its claws. So it's like they reversed
01:07:32
Speaker
even just the symbolism. I think there's a lot of that type of thing that happened through colonization of some sorts. Basically, that flag is an FU saying, we conquered you, we destroyed your symbolism, your culture. This is what's true now. And I think that goes even far deeper than we can imagine, as far as ancient cultures. And the reason I bring this up is because if you look into all these super ancient tablets, it talks about
01:08:00
Speaker
God's walking among men at certain periods. And it's basically in the deep past describing the story of humanity being created by higher entities that at one point did walk among men. So some of this stuff is very convincing that something like this did happen in our past and we're living in some type of just story that was created for us. And we just take it as the truth.
01:08:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's super compelling. And this is what happens when you have a void left by lies.
Conquerors and Cultural Narratives
01:08:35
Speaker
As you said, one of the most common things throughout history is when one dynasty is conquered by another.
01:08:47
Speaker
The conquering dynasty tends to destroy all artifacts, culture, any type of cultural remnant of who was prior. And that goes for countries, civilizations and tribes throughout all parts of the world. I mean, the Spanish Inquisition, the burning of the Library of Alexandria,
01:09:14
Speaker
the abolition of the mysteries of Eleusis, you know, all these types of things. They snuffed out so many of the psychedelic religions that were permeating through Mexico, the Mazatecs and all of these. I mean, now they're so tiny and minuscule compared to what they previously were. I mean, they were the ones who were ruling the world of mysticism and religion.
01:09:40
Speaker
because that's where their roots were, in my opinion. It seems that the roots of civilization are so, so deep in the spiritual world.
01:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And I think that, I mean, we're basically living—I think after the Roman Empire, I think we're living from that paradigm. And I think even what we do know about the Incas and the Aztecs and their shamanism and their type of culture, I think we only know a small, tiny aspect. We saw them at—what we know of them was them at their depletion.
01:10:12
Speaker
When they were, you know, they were struggling and they were doing the human sacrifices because they didn't know what else to do. I think that our history goes even like far deeper than that, like even before what we would call Atlantis where
01:10:28
Speaker
There was a peak human civilization of what you're describing, mysticism, of just a totally different mindset. And I think that's totally been erased. And before when you said this, it made me think of Norm Macdonald. He said, this isn't verbatim, but he basically said, isn't it funny that in history the good guys always win?
01:10:52
Speaker
Amazing think about it. I mean we owe everybody. Oh, they were good and they won they were good and they won it's like I think about this and it is really like we are It's just we're living in some goofy story like it we to even for an instant think that we know even the relative truth about even our
01:11:13
Speaker
are near past, even just World War I. Just even that we don't know, we just take what is in the book and call it truth, you know, anything. So I think that the human story is probably very fantastical and different than what we could imagine and maybe in the past I think
01:11:37
Speaker
Because, you know, we think about ourselves like human origins is such a big deal. And we find these artifacts talking about human origins from like tens of thousands of years ago. And it has it actually like written out in these languages that aren't even we don't even speak. But people were human beings were intelligent so we can decipher this stuff and make sense of it. And human origins are are written down. And we just say myth. That's nothing. It's just a myth.
01:12:05
Speaker
It's all symbolism. There's nothing true in there. It's just this is a symbol for that. This is a symbol for this. Meanwhile, we have half of our symbols backwards today versus their original intent. So I think like with those Sumerian texts, I think there's like a lot of interesting stuff behind some of that.
Reconsidering Human Origins with UAPs
01:12:25
Speaker
That's why I love the UAP topic because it forces us to contend with all of the major questions, all of the major pillars of our reality, all the things that we think are solid, all the things that we think are real, everything we've ever been told, taught, learned, all of it.
01:13:02
Speaker
really important if this could ever be allowed to play out or if we ever make it further in this topic is basically the metaphysics that will come with it and the human history, our origins, who we are. I think those are like two giant things that could start to be questioned more when the further we dive deep into this topic.
01:13:11
Speaker
is put into question with this topic and I think that's the beauty of it.
01:13:27
Speaker
Not to mention the massive changes in society that the technology will most likely bring.
01:13:41
Speaker
If we have these technologies, I mean, who knows? I think according to Grush, he says that we are not able to recreate it, but guaranteed that we are able to use it to advance. But I don't – I think he says that we haven't been able to totally recreate it.
01:14:02
Speaker
But they say that like fiber optics was one of the technologies. Some of our laser tech happened to come through some of these reverse engineering programs.
01:14:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's like they're coming from incremental discoveries as a result of trying to back engineer these things. But it doesn't seem that we have the capability to fully grasp and harness the power of what this technology is.
Technological Advancements from UFOs
01:14:28
Speaker
But if you listen to Steven Greer, he would say otherwise. He does claim that we have the ability to do some pretty outrageous things. Yeah, he does. He says that the gray aliens are human made, that they are like
01:14:45
Speaker
It's interesting because there's such a dichotomy there like with these different narratives and there's so much trickery going on. It's just it's so hard to know what to believe because both ends are very extreme.
01:15:00
Speaker
And that's why lately I've kind of taken a deeper interest in the past and kind of what I could link to that because that stuff is literally written in stone. And this stuff, everything that's happening now, it's like sometimes I'll hear Greer talk and I'll think, okay, that sounds like it could align with the truth and then it'll say something else. And it's like, he says it so confidently, but it sounds so ridiculous.
01:15:26
Speaker
And I just don't know if I can believe it, but really he's the main guy talking about the consciousness aspect of it too, so I like that aspect of it. Whereas you have the other end, the Elizondo, the military disclosure, where they totally, for the most part, publicly ignore the consciousness aspect of it, focus strictly on nuts and bolts.
01:15:48
Speaker
technology, nothing to do with the metaphysical, ontological impact that this will have. So of course it's got to be divided like that.
Challenges in UFO Narratives
01:16:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's a packed field, man. And the result of that packed field seems to be that a lot of these people are like talking shit on the other camps. You know, you have the Greer camp where he talks a lot of smack on Lou Elizondo. He says that Lou Elizondo is a disinformation agent. And I think he might even claim that Elizondo doesn't even know he's a disinformation agent. Is that right?
01:16:30
Speaker
He might I don't know if he says that but honestly that you mentioned that I think that would probably be the most likely that he doesn't that he's being probably used if he was a disinformation agent. I mean I think it's not the best use of someone to make them act and like
01:16:51
Speaker
be a disinformation agent agent consciously, I think it'd be easier to feed someone false information and make them believe they're on the right track and give them permission to release certain things. And that way, they are believable because they believe what they're doing. So that could be true. I mean,
01:17:10
Speaker
hard to say but I wanted to mention too just lastly before we wrap up was with David Grush the whistleblower he what's happening right now in the news is that he has been slandered so the intercept is a magazine which ironically was founded on whistleblowers the intercept was a a
Media Attacks on David Grush
01:17:34
Speaker
a publication that was founded by, this is a safe place for whistleblowers to come and we will report what you have to say. Fast forward a couple years, the original founders are gone and now they're putting out a hit piece on David Grush. And what they're saying is that he has PTSD. They put out basically an article that has really no purpose. It's basically just saying this guy has PTSD and he was an alcoholic.
01:18:02
Speaker
And it doesn't really put any context to it. It's just like pretty much the definition of a hit piece. And even in the News Nation interview that David Grush gave to Ross Colthart, he already mentioned that he had PTSD. So he said that publicly, but this guy that wrote this Intercept article, I guess, FOIA'd, Freedom of Information Act, his medical records, and got a hold of his medical records,
01:18:27
Speaker
and found the alcoholism and PTSD, and he talked to other people in the bureau, which if you ask me, sound like they might be the other side of this that are trying to keep him shut up and make him an example so more whistleblowers don't come forward. But there are other people in these agencies that gave this writer of the article information about Grush, and it doesn't really give any context to
01:18:55
Speaker
These conditions will crush is claimed to
01:19:01
Speaker
got over his PTSD, got treatment for it, he's no longer an alcoholic, doesn't drink, this and that. But it's just interesting to see that finally start to happen because for a while, there was nothing bad you can say about the man. Everybody was saying, oh, he's highly credentialed, he's a hero, he's in intelligence agencies, he was in Iraq, in the Air Force, he was just all this good stuff about him. So it seems like he actually is squeaky clean and those are the only things that they can prod at him with.
01:19:29
Speaker
And I think the purpose of that would be try to publicly shame somebody to hopefully make other whistle blowers second-guess coming out publicly.
Future Whistleblowers
01:19:41
Speaker
In this day and age, they just tried character assassination as opposed to actually delegitimizing his points.
01:19:48
Speaker
Yeah. And a good thing is that it doesn't seem to be working at all. I mean, everybody sees through it, especially because the way it was written, it was so blatantly a hit piece. It doesn't give any context to his conditions. It doesn't.
01:20:05
Speaker
speak about at all how he got over those conditions so it's it's it's pretty pathetic honestly when you look into it but yeah i figured that was worth mentioning because that's like kind of brand new right now thankfully like i said it didn't seem to work but so now supposedly that they are saying that they might have forty first-hand witnesses to these crash retrieval programs and uh
01:20:34
Speaker
reverse engineering programs that they have, I think, 40 people that are willing to come forward. And now that it seems like this attempt on the attack of Grush didn't seem to really have the effect that the attackers desired, it seems like in the near future, we should be having some more of these whistleblowers come forward. And these are the guys who actually were in crash retrieval programs and actually were working on reverse engineering craft.
01:21:05
Speaker
man this stuff is so interesting I can't wait even though it is a slow trickle I just I can't wait for the next bite
01:22:19
Speaker
you