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Episode 11: Our Worst Rejections
65 Plays2 months ago
Yep, we’re going there. We share the details of our worst rejections–the ones that sting, linger, and might make someone briefly consider abandoning publishing altogether for a new career in goat herding. But in those painful moments, we learned valuable lessons about resilience, growth, and keeping focused on the long game. We unpack how rejection can sharpen your work, clarify your goals, and even become something you laugh about (eventually). Ever gotten a “no” that felt a little too personal? You’re in the right place.
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Transcript
Introduction to Publishing Rejections
00:00:15
Paul Regnier
Hello everyone and welcome to the show. I am Paul Regner.
00:00:19
Lindsay Franklin
And I'm Lindsay Franklin.
00:00:21
Paul Regnier
And today we're talking about our worst rejections in the publishing industry and what we learned from them and how we didn't allow it to crush our spirits and keep us down, but we shouldered on and kept going.
00:00:34
Paul Regnier
um Lindsay, I'll let you start out these sad tales of woe that we have and talk
Handling Initial Rejections
00:00:42
Paul Regnier
about. What was when you first started?
00:00:45
Paul Regnier
I'm sure and and rejections when you first start are probably you take them a lot harder than you know, as you go on, because as you go on, you realize, oh, this is just part of the process.
00:00:56
Paul Regnier
Like, I shouldn't try to take it so personally.
00:00:57
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:00:58
Paul Regnier
But like, what were some of your initial rejections that you got and how did you learn to handle those?
00:01:05
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah, it is definitely part of the process, part of the the game, the business, whatever is absolutely right, because I don't think I know a single writer who has never been rejected if they've been in this business for any length of time.
00:01:18
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:01:19
Lindsay Franklin
So yes, I have a whole pile of rejections in my history because my debut novel is The Story Peddler, But that was the third project that my agent and I were pitching. So I have a lot of rejections, even just from publishers. I got agented really quickly in my career. That part happened fast for me, so I don't have a ton of rejections on that side. But when we started trying to submit to publishers, I absolutely do have a bunch of those.
00:01:50
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:01:51
Lindsay Franklin
So um yes, I am first going to tell one of the funniest and most awkward rejection stories that I have personally. um and I always say that silence is maybe like the worst rejection that you can get. I don't know if that's, if people agree with me on that, I would just rather get the email that says no, or the rejection face to face if I'm pitching in person, where it's a definitive answer, the loop is closed, and it's just no, right?
00:02:22
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:02:22
Lindsay Franklin
The silence after you submit, you know, if there's like a, whether it's a cold query or a request for more materials, if a publisher or an agent is requesting more materials, they really should circle back with you and and give you a yes or a no.
00:02:35
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:02:36
Lindsay Franklin
But that silence sometimes is the worst. Yeah.
00:02:40
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Deafening.
00:02:42
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, right? Because then it just feels like, and this is not true, but I'm saying that it feels this way as the author, like it was so deeply rejected that it didn't even warrant, but you know, like the form email back saying we're not interested.
00:02:58
Lindsay Franklin
And that's not true. Usually it's just that they're so busy on their side that they don't have time to respond to everybody, but it's still really difficult to deal with that an As a hopeful writer, you know you're hoping to hear good news.
00:03:02
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:03:12
Lindsay Franklin
and you know But I have to say that silence is not the ah weirdest or worst rejection I've gotten.
Memorable Rejection Stories
00:03:21
Lindsay Franklin
My worst story is probably I'm sitting at a conference and this was not one-on-one pitch meeting, but it was like during mealtime.
00:03:31
Lindsay Franklin
And the acquisitions editor had sort of asked everybody at the table to pitch to her like over dinner ah while we were eating. And so I'm sitting there so nervous. I can't remember exactly where this was in my journey. It was it was pretty early on because I was still pitching my very first ah manuscript, the first story that we went out on submission with.
00:03:56
Lindsay Franklin
And so finally, it was my turn, we went around. And so people were verbally pitching to her kind of that 30 second elevator pitch. And then she would take in what they were saying, and then give them some real time feedback in front of everybody, which was a little nerve wracking.
00:04:13
Lindsay Franklin
But we get to me, and I give her my pitch. And she stared at me for probably five seconds in complete silence and then got up and just walked away from the table.
00:04:24
Paul Regnier
Oh no.
00:04:27
Paul Regnier
No! No! What? That's so rude.
00:04:31
Lindsay Franklin
Now, i think I think that there might have been a bathroom emergency that occurred.
00:04:32
Paul Regnier
Why?
00:04:37
Paul Regnier
Oh, OK.
00:04:39
Lindsay Franklin
so But in the moment, that was not clear. it absolutely appeared to be, and the eight other people, I think there was like eight of us sitting around the table, six or eight of us, that my pitch was so bad that it like made her leave is what it looked like.
00:04:55
Lindsay Franklin
had
00:04:57
Paul Regnier
Maybe your idea was so brilliant, she just couldn't handle it.
00:04:57
Lindsay Franklin
And... ah She just couldn't handle it.
00:05:00
Paul Regnier
The
00:05:01
Lindsay Franklin
She was overcome. She needed a moment.
00:05:03
Paul Regnier
genius of it all just was overwhelming.
00:05:04
Lindsay Franklin
i ah Looking back, I actually feel so bad for her that that happened because that's... i she probably looks back at that like, oh, yes, this is one of my worst conference stories or whatever.
00:05:17
Lindsay Franklin
This happened to me. I suddenly had to, you know, go throw up or whatever it was that she had to go deal with.
00:05:20
Paul Regnier
Wait, did she never come back and explain anything? Was there any like closure or resolution on this?
00:05:25
Lindsay Franklin
She she eventually came back, um didn't really explain what had happened. So I'm not sure.
00:05:34
Paul Regnier
Uh-huh.
00:05:35
Lindsay Franklin
I'm not sure that that's what happened. But i I'm like, 90% sure that she had some form of emergency that she needed to deal with. um
00:05:42
Paul Regnier
But she didn't get back to you and say like, oh, as you were saying, or give you any kind of commentary.
00:05:49
Lindsay Franklin
It was um very, very brief general. I think she was very rattled by whatever had happened.
00:05:55
Paul Regnier
Ah, right.
00:05:56
Lindsay Franklin
So she didn't really have much feedback for me. It was kind of, oh, we basically her feedback was we already have one one fantasy author and then she like moved on to the next person was kind of like the the sum total of it.
00:06:07
Paul Regnier
Ouch. Yeah.
00:06:09
Lindsay Franklin
So it was not, you know, not the most helpful ah the most helpful feedback, but that was super awkward. However, i think it was the first time that i cracked a joke in response to the awkwardness verbally, because that's something I will do in writing all the time is like make a joke, have kind of the banter, whatever.
00:06:24
Paul Regnier
Mm.
00:06:26
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:06:28
Lindsay Franklin
very comfortable in writing, but, um, I can't remember exactly what I said, but after 10 seconds of supreme, awkward silence, I made some kind of, you know, one liner about my pitch being so bad that she had to go, you know, relieve herself in some way.
00:06:46
Lindsay Franklin
So, um, that was, and then people laughed and it broke the the tension. And then we just chatted amongst ourselves until she came back. Um, But that was definitely up there for me.
00:06:58
Lindsay Franklin
It might actually be worse than silence. I hope I don't inspire anybody to um throw up or whatever happened in the bathroom stays in the bathroom. But i hope that never happens again.
00:07:08
Paul Regnier
Yes. Generally not the response we're looking for after a story pitch. Wow.
00:07:14
Lindsay Franklin
Not ideal.
00:07:15
Paul Regnier
You know what's funny? ah the the one the The rejection I was going to lead with is is very similar, and we didn't talk about this before. It's just kind of funny because I was at a writer's conference. It was my, like I think my first big writer's conference. I had been to like a small one, but at this point, it's like I had a book.
00:07:34
Paul Regnier
It was my first book, which was like a fantasy book. And I didn't really know the whole process, but I'm going to this conference because they were saying, hey, you can pitch to agents and you know publishers you know your story and see um you know what happens. And so that's what i was doing. This is my first time doing it. I'm real nervous. I don't even know like how to do a good pitch. so But one of the things is you could schedule pitch times, but those filled up real quick. And I was trying to schedule a pitch time with Steve Lobby,
00:08:07
Lindsay Franklin
Steve Lobby.
00:08:07
Paul Regnier
who is if people don't know he's an agent that's been agent for decades and now he runs enclave publishing which is where lindsay works um uh great guy but at the time i didn't know him but i knew he was looking for speculative fiction and he was one of the few you know agents looking for speculative fiction at the time i'm like okay this is my guy and everyone's like oh yeah, you got a pitch to Steve Lobby if you have fantasy.
00:08:31
Paul Regnier
So I'm like, cool, I didn't know anything about him. And when you first meet him, he's a little bit of an intimidating figure. you know He's got a deep voice, he's really tall and you know he just he he's kind of a no-nonsense kind of guy.
00:08:39
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:08:45
Paul Regnier
But like once you get to know him, he's like a teddy bear and really nice, caring kind of guy. But you know I didn't know him, right? So i'm kind of intimidated. And it was the same thing. like I couldn't get a pitch meeting with him, but there was that secondary option where you can sit next to him at mealtime around these huge like oval tables where there's like 10 people.
00:09:06
Paul Regnier
So you know no pressure, right? Now you're pitching to 10 people instead of one.
00:09:10
Lindsay Franklin
the worst. I hate that so much.
00:09:11
Paul Regnier
So I know, i know.
00:09:13
Lindsay Franklin
ah hu
00:09:13
Paul Regnier
So I got to sit like pretty close to him. Thankfully, I wasn't on the opposite side of the table, but I thought, okay, here's my chance. You know, we're eating and like, you know, I'm going to wait for my chance to pitch my fantasy book to him.
00:09:27
Paul Regnier
And I had practiced the story and everything. So Steve likes starts saying, OK, well, why don't we get this started? like Hey, why don't everyone go? Well, let's go around the table, and we'll start pitching you know stories. and And let me hear your story. And then he turns sort straight to me.
00:09:45
Paul Regnier
And he says, so what do you got? so it was like, I wasn't even like ready to be like the first out the gate. So I'm like, okay. And I'm like, oh, oh, well, um yeah, I've got a fantasy story. And I got that far and he he throws his hat back and he's like, oh,
00:10:01
Paul Regnier
Another fantasy story. He's like, I have just got a stack of my ah fantasy stories on my desk. I am getting inundated with fantasy stories late lately. I don't know what it is. And he's just like speaking like honestly, right? like I guess he had got just a flood of fantasy stories. But me, as I'm pitching, I'm just like, oh, like like death. Like, oh my gosh, he hates fantasy. And you know meanwhile, he loves fantasy. But...
00:10:27
Paul Regnier
And I'm thinking, and it was just like the the table it just went dead silent.
00:10:31
Lindsay Franklin
So awkward. Nope.
00:10:32
Paul Regnier
I went silent.
00:10:32
Lindsay Franklin
so awkward
00:10:33
Paul Regnier
I didn't know what to say. And then all a sudden he realizes like, oh, oh, oh, no, no, no. But go ahead. Like, tell me your story. That's not a great start, right? So I stumble through my pitch. I don't even remember. It was like a dream. I'm just like spewing words. It's probably a horrible pitch. And he's just kind of nodding. He's like, OK. He's like, great. OK. Let's go to the next person. And it was just that was it, right? So I'm like, well, that was an epic fail.
00:11:00
Paul Regnier
but But these experiences are good because number one, like it can't get much worse, right? And someone rushing off to throw up after your pitch or someone like someone like shutting you down before you even get started.
00:11:11
Lindsay Franklin
I'm
00:11:15
Paul Regnier
So it's good to have these spectrums of failure because then it's only uphill from there. But also it it it's good to just get that experience and just try pitching.
00:11:27
Paul Regnier
And the more you pitch, and I pitched a bunch of other times at that conference. So I got a lot of experience and I got better and better. And it's just good practice for when you're doing these pitches. Sometimes they might call it an elevator pitch or you know whatever.
00:11:41
Paul Regnier
um I even did this thing where I went to Hollywood and did like a screenplay pitch to like different producers back when I was doing screenplays. and Nothing really hit, but it was good to get that experience.
00:11:49
Lindsay Franklin
Right.
00:11:52
Paul Regnier
and You're getting in front of people and you're you're telling your story and you just get more and more comfortable even through failure. you know you're learning, and you're getting better, and you're sharper. And someone might tell you something like, oh, i like that part of it. Oh, that was cool. Or, oh, that was a really good pitch. And then you're thinking, OK, I got my pitch right, even if it didn't turn into anything.
From Rejection to Celebration
00:12:14
Lindsay Franklin
i am
00:12:14
Paul Regnier
But i will I will tell you, like just to sort of make a full circle version of that story, I did eventually, like later on I wrote a science fiction book that did get picked up by Enclave when when Steve started like captaining the ship of Enclave Publishing.
00:12:34
Paul Regnier
and i was on my I think it was the second book in that series. and I was back at Mount Hermon, which is where that pitch first happened. It was the first time I'd been to Mount Hermon.
00:12:45
Lindsay Franklin
Me too. Mine was Matt Herman's story as well.
00:12:48
Paul Regnier
Yes. So I come back and I think it was eight years later or something like that. And, um, and i I had just launched the second book in the space drifter series.
00:13:00
Paul Regnier
And, and right before I got to the conference, it hit, like it got that Amazon orange tag bestseller in its category, which was really cool to hit.
00:13:07
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. Yay. Yay.
00:13:09
Paul Regnier
Um, And so I'm sitting there at the registration table. The conference had just started and in walks Steve Lobby, right? So now he's like, he's promoting me, the same guy that shut me down.
00:13:21
Paul Regnier
So he walks toward me. It's the first time I'd see him at the conference and I see him and we meet eyes and he lifts up his finger and he's like, number one.
00:13:29
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:13:30
Paul Regnier
Number one.
00:13:31
Lindsay Franklin
but
00:13:31
Paul Regnier
So it's such a cool full circle moment for me. Like, wow, both these bookends of like failure and success happened at you know at the same conference, but with the same person.
00:13:39
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:13:43
Paul Regnier
And it was so interesting to see. So like it was to me like, wow, a a failure or, you know, a quote unquote failure. could years later prove to be like this cool full circle moment of like, hey, you you know you did it.
00:13:58
Paul Regnier
you You persevered and you kept going and you made it happen. So that was a really long story.
00:14:03
Lindsay Franklin
A hundred percent.
00:14:04
Paul Regnier
I apologize. But yeah.
00:14:06
Lindsay Franklin
No, it wasn't. It's great. And I think that you could probably see there are little lessons that that we both learned through these two quite awkward, you know, around the table moments.
00:14:17
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:14:18
Lindsay Franklin
And I have to say, I absolutely hate that. Even to this day, I hate having to pitch. I hate having to pitch verbally at all, just period, full stop, hate it But having to, oh gosh, it's just not not my favorite.
00:14:28
Paul Regnier
Yeah, I'm not great at it either.
00:14:32
Lindsay Franklin
And I think that's true for a lot of us. ah We write words on a page for a reason. And pitching feels very different than like this, what we're doing now, just which is off the cuff, natural, we're just having a conversation.
00:14:37
Paul Regnier
Yeah. and
00:14:43
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:14:46
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:14:46
Lindsay Franklin
Pitching is not that.
00:14:47
Lindsay Franklin
And so it's very uncomfortable for most writers to have to do that.
00:14:48
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:14:52
Lindsay Franklin
So at least we're all in the same awkward boat, which is helpful. But you know through these two really...
00:14:55
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:15:00
Lindsay Franklin
awkward, not the best experiences um that we had. we We learned from that. And in your story, I see, you know, the perseverance of not being like, oh, that didn't go so well.
00:15:11
Lindsay Franklin
It was my first experience with that. um But you still, you pitched to Steve again down the road. You didn't let that stop you from pitching.
00:15:17
Paul Regnier
Uh-huh.
00:15:19
Lindsay Franklin
And so the perseverance there to just keep going with it. Okay. You had the one awkward experience. You had the, the kind of rejection of just sort of, okay, moving on to the next person, um, situation, but you circled back to that.
00:15:25
Paul Regnier
yes
00:15:30
Paul Regnier
right
00:15:33
Lindsay Franklin
And I think that's a really, and had success with your second, second try with Steve, Steve lobby. So I think that's a super important takeaway for people to get from your story.
00:15:44
Lindsay Franklin
Um, And I did not have that experience with my my poor editor who ran away to the bathroom. But I don't think I ever pitched to that house again, not because of that experience, but just I think that they didn't, they maybe stopped publishing fantasy.
00:16:00
Lindsay Franklin
I can't remember. That was a really long time ago. But Um, that, that moment where I told a joke and made everybody else at the table laugh was actually a little bit formative to me.
00:16:12
Lindsay Franklin
It's sort of like we've talked about before kind of discovering humor or giving ourselves permission to be humorous in our manuscripts. Cause we have kind of a similar journey with that.
00:16:20
Paul Regnier
Yes.
00:16:22
Lindsay Franklin
This was like the in-person version of that because it wasn't a polished moment.
00:16:25
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:16:27
Lindsay Franklin
It definitely wasn't a scripted moment, but it was, it was real.
00:16:29
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:16:30
Lindsay Franklin
And And just cracking a joke and making people laugh. i was like, oh, okay. Yeah, this is okay. And we're we're all just going to move on. And it actually became a funny story rather than I had to run away from the table after dinner that night and go cry in my room or something.
00:16:47
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:16:47
Lindsay Franklin
Nope, that didn't happen. It it just became a funny story ah for all of us. And, ah you know, eventually one where I actually felt really bad for the editor. But yeah, there are lessons in all of these these experiences that we have.
00:16:56
Paul Regnier
right
00:17:01
Paul Regnier
Yeah, and i um back when I first started, it was i think it's it's probably a little bit different now with like indie publishing the way it is now. But back then, it was like, which was 10, 11 years ago, whatever it was, it was expected that you get an agent first because a lot of publishers would not...
00:17:22
Paul Regnier
um accept query letters from um you know unsolicited. You had to have an agent sort of like you know representing you. So I remember I used this tool.
00:17:33
Paul Regnier
I don't even know if this is around, Query Tracker? Is Query Tracker still around?
00:17:36
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, it is.
00:17:37
Paul Regnier
Is it? OK. So it's basically it lists all the agents and what they're looking for and and how to send you know your pitch to them, your your query letter.
00:17:39
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:17:48
Paul Regnier
you know Sometimes they want like the first three chapters, whatever it is. like And so I did that. And this was like early on when someone first told me, I think this was even before that Mount Hermon experience.
00:18:02
Paul Regnier
But I, or it might've been after anyways. um I, so I started sending those out. I think I sent out like, I want to say 60 or 70 that were either ignored or rejected.
00:18:12
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:18:15
Paul Regnier
before I finally found an agent that said, hey, I would like to represent you. And then he's the one that took my, yeah, so it must've been after, cause this was for space drifters and then he kind of took it and started talking. But ironically, it was it was already being talked about at Enclave, cause I had done this, they used to have an online submission. So it was just a weird timing thing.
00:18:39
Paul Regnier
So they were already looking at it while he was pitching it to them. And so it all just kind of worked out. But, um but yeah, I mean, gosh, I got so many rejections again, trying to find an agent where I could have easily been crushed.
00:18:54
Paul Regnier
Like you don't think you're going to have to go through 60 or 70 of those no's right before you get a yes.
00:19:00
Lindsay Franklin
Right.
00:19:01
Paul Regnier
But sometimes it just takes that long, you know?
00:19:04
Paul Regnier
um And if that's what you want to do, you just got to keep pushing and keep going and not let it, um, not take it personally
00:19:04
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
The Long Road to Debut Novel
00:19:13
Paul Regnier
not think like oh no i'm no good this is a sign you know obviously all these industry professionals if they're all saying no that must mean you know my i'm not good enough and i'm not cut out for this like how easily could we tell ourselves that story um so yeah perseverance is i think a big part of it um uh so yeah that's i don't know what your agent experience was like but um
00:19:17
Lindsay Franklin
Right.
00:19:25
Lindsay Franklin
Right.
00:19:40
Paul Regnier
if you had rejections in that. Do you have any other reject rejections within those that realm of experience?
00:19:43
Lindsay Franklin
So,
00:19:47
Lindsay Franklin
yeah, that's kind of a, that's an interesting one for me, because if I just tell this piece of my story, then it sounds like everything was easy for me.
00:19:57
Lindsay Franklin
And that is not the case because this piece of my story is is the part that happened quickly for me.
00:19:59
Paul Regnier
Hmm.
00:20:03
Paul Regnier
Hmm.
00:20:03
Lindsay Franklin
And I did before, let's see, trying to remember back, ah I think that I did send a couple of queries to like some general market agents.
00:20:15
Lindsay Franklin
And my first manuscript that I was trying to pitch was very overtly Christian. And I did not realize that Christian publishing existed.
00:20:20
Paul Regnier
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
00:20:24
Lindsay Franklin
I didn't know about that. I didn't grow up with it the way some some people did and were really aware. you know A lot of people who write in our space like grew up with Frank Peretti and you know stuff like that.
00:20:35
Lindsay Franklin
And I just didn't. I didn't know that this this little corner of publishing existed. So I think I sent two queries to general market agents, and one of them was kind enough to say, you should try querying, you know, like a Christian agent or something like that, that kind of set me on that path.
00:20:54
Lindsay Franklin
And I went and Googled Christian literary agent because what what is that?
00:20:54
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:20:59
Lindsay Franklin
you know And Steve Lobby's blog actually is what came up at the top of my results.
00:20:59
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:21:05
Lindsay Franklin
And he had a list that I think that he used to kind of update it yearly or something. I doubt he still does because now we've got the Christian writer's market guide that he kind of is spearheading that.
00:21:16
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:21:16
Lindsay Franklin
And so you can find that info there. But it had a list of like 50 Christian literary agents and what they represented, just like links to their website and stuff. It was a really amazing resource.
00:21:28
Lindsay Franklin
And so I just started going down that list, clicking um through onto websites and reading about what these agents were looking for. And that is how I found a young associate agent named Rachel Kent.
00:21:40
Lindsay Franklin
Although she was not called Rachel Kent at the time because she was like newly engaged, but she's now called Rachel Kent. And I saw that she was going to be attending a conference in California.
00:21:52
Lindsay Franklin
i lived in California at the time, not anywhere close to the Redwoods outside of San Jose where Mount Hermon is, but that's where she was going to be in like two weeks. And so I was like, what is a writer's conference?
00:22:04
Lindsay Franklin
What's that all about?
00:22:05
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:22:05
Lindsay Franklin
And I i looked that up and wow, this is happening really soon. And, you know, flights are kind of cheap and maybe I should go. And that, that's what I did. i hopped on a plane that was in 2010.
00:22:17
Lindsay Franklin
That was my first writers conference. I think I have said on the podcast before that, you know, I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't know very basic craft stuff at that point. I was just, I mean, this is how I stumbled upon the industry basically.
00:22:27
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:22:31
Lindsay Franklin
And I pitched to her at that conference and I signed with her at the end of that year, like December of that year. um
00:22:38
Paul Regnier
Wow, that's cool.
00:22:39
Lindsay Franklin
But I rewrote, I rewrote the book after learning, learning a little bit of craft stuff at Mount Hermon. I was like, oh my, I need, I asked her during our pitch meeting, can I rewrite this before I send you the full?
00:22:50
Lindsay Franklin
Because she was interested in the full, but I knew she's going to read it and be like, the craft is not up to to standard and she would have been 100% right.
00:22:52
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:22:59
Lindsay Franklin
So I asked her if I could go home and just have a month to rewrite it.
00:23:00
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:23:04
Lindsay Franklin
And she said, absolutely. And so I did. And, you know, the rest is history. So that's obnoxious to be like, oh, it took me eight months or whatever to get agented. And, you know, But my long waiting period full of rejection came after that point when we submitted multiple projects to many different publishers and we tried and tried and tried, it took us like six years to land my debut novel.
00:23:28
Lindsay Franklin
So yes, long time.
00:23:28
Paul Regnier
Oh, wow. Six years. Okay.
00:23:31
Lindsay Franklin
And I was like right on the precipice of going indie at that point.
00:23:32
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:23:35
Lindsay Franklin
I i told my agent, she's still my agent. I love her to pieces. But I told her if we can't get Story Peddler, placed because I just felt in my bones.
00:23:47
Lindsay Franklin
That was my debut novel. And I was like, if we, if we get all all these really nice rejections, cause we were getting a lot of, Oh, you know, this is, we like her writing or, you know, this is, this is good, but it doesn't fit because X, Y, z And I said, if this just isn't a fit for somebody, that's fine, but I'm going to go indie with it.
00:23:48
Paul Regnier
Hmm.
00:24:06
Lindsay Franklin
And she said, okay, fair enough. But we got, we got an offer on, um on that one. So um yeah.
00:24:12
Paul Regnier
That's great to be so confident in your own story too, because that I think that will pull you through a lot of rejections. Mm-hmm.
00:24:19
Lindsay Franklin
Absolutely. And I had learned so much on those first two submissions that we did. and i those six years were not... wasted. i had, of course, grown a lot on the craft side, but in our our previous episode, we were talking about finding your niche.
00:24:36
Lindsay Franklin
And that is a lot of what I was doing in that six years. So by the time we got to Story Peddler, which I started writing, I mean, years before that, I want to say that went through like maybe three years of me working on it in various ways and kind of getting to where we got the contract in 2016.
00:24:56
Lindsay Franklin
But that i was finding who I was as as an artist, as a writer, and as a person in some respects. And so by the time we got there and we were both happy, my agent and I, with the draft, I knew that this was the one.
00:25:13
Lindsay Franklin
And so if it doesn't work for a traditional publisher, that's fine. We'll all go indie because i have always wanted to be hybrid. That's been my goal and is still my goal. Ultimately, I will have some trad projects and some indie projects.
00:25:26
Lindsay Franklin
So um I was like, we'll just start with indie instead of trad if we don't get any bites.
00:25:30
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:25:33
Lindsay Franklin
And so, yeah, you're right. the The rejection process, it's like it can be a refining process as well. And that's really what it was for me is figuring out you know, what I needed to be writing and where I wanted to sit in the market and then having that confidence to say, i know this is the one, I know my writing is is there craft wise at this point.
00:25:58
Lindsay Franklin
We're just going to go for it if it doesn't work. I couldn't have gotten there without the rejections that I experienced along the way because that kept just nudging me a little bit this way, a little bit that way until I was finally on the right path.
00:26:04
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:26:11
Lindsay Franklin
So very important.
00:26:12
Paul Regnier
And in those six in those six years you mentioned with that agent where you're pitching stuff, this was um three different books. Or wasn't it like two projects that you tried to pitch?
00:26:21
Lindsay Franklin
Correct.
00:26:24
Paul Regnier
And then finally your third book, which was Story Peddler, was the one that, right? there was So there was multiple.
00:26:30
Lindsay Franklin
correct
00:26:31
Paul Regnier
Now, how did you decide along the way with that that those first two just like, okay, we need to move on from that and try something different?
00:26:40
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, that is that question is the perfect segue into my second big rejection story that I'm going to share.
00:26:48
Paul Regnier
Oh, OK. Mm-hmm. Hmm.
00:26:49
Lindsay Franklin
It's perfect. Because with the first the first one, that it was a YA fantasy manuscript. And that was the one that my agent signed me on, you know? so it was kind of enough for her to say, I see potential here. Like I want to represent this author.
00:27:05
Lindsay Franklin
um But a lot of the feedback that we got on that was that it didn't feel fresh enough. Like the concept wasn't ah fresh enough or unique enough, something like that. um But one of the,
00:27:19
Lindsay Franklin
worst rejection experiences I had because it was so, it ended up being so detrimental to me, just kind of emotionally and as a person for a while, it set me on a path that was kind of inauthentic. And it was still looking back, I'm like, would I change it? No, because I think it got me eventually to where I needed to be, but it was a really, really hard thing. And it was another conference experience, but not around a table.
00:27:46
Lindsay Franklin
And it was also not a formal pitch meeting. I cannot remember why, but I was having this conversation almost in passing with an editor, like we passed each other. And I knew that i had the stuff that I was wanting to pitch to this editor. Again, one of the few who was willing to look at fantasy.
00:28:06
Lindsay Franklin
And so I handed him my pages and said, you know, This is, we were having conversation. He said, yeah, pitched me. What have you got? And I pitched it. i handed him my pages of my proposal and he flipped through it spending, I'm not exaggerating. I want to say three seconds on each page.
00:28:23
Lindsay Franklin
like He was just barely skimming it.
00:28:24
Paul Regnier
Ouch.
00:28:27
Lindsay Franklin
And then he kind of looked at it. He went through you know a few pages of actual writing, but spending just a few seconds on each page. And then he handed it back to me and said, i don't see anything here that's special.
00:28:39
Paul Regnier
Ouch. Wow. Man. How about a little tact there, buddy? That's cold.
00:28:45
Lindsay Franklin
Oh, pain, absolute pain.
00:28:46
Paul Regnier
Cold-blooded.
00:28:48
Lindsay Franklin
And I just, you know, when you're doing these things in person, it's like, how, how do you school your face so that you don't show like what that feels like on the inside when somebody says that and just, oh,
00:28:49
Paul Regnier
Wow.
00:29:00
Paul Regnier
Yeah. you shouldve You should have came back with, well, that's maybe because you only spent three seconds on each page and you have no idea what my pitch actually is.
00:29:11
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. And I did. i felt that way a little bit. I was like, you didn't even read it. But at the same time, when I could step back from the emotional hurt of that, I was like, okay, I think what he he failed to say tactfully or kindly was similar to what we had heard other places.
00:29:15
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:29:29
Lindsay Franklin
Like they liked they liked the writing he didn't say that but they liked the writing but said that the concept didn't feel fresh enough especially for a debut to them so i think that is what he was trying to communicate and he just did not do it very well um
00:29:44
Paul Regnier
You know what the the brutal word when when they're trying to say that is, which I hate this word when they send it to you, they say, oh, this is derivative. I hate that.
00:29:54
Lindsay Franklin
oh yeah that one hurts
00:29:54
Paul Regnier
That one is like a knife in the heart when you hear that. I don't know why that word is just so ominous, like it's derivative, like, oh, that's it.
00:30:02
Lindsay Franklin
Yep. I think
00:30:03
Paul Regnier
That's the nail in the coffin. It can't be resurrected.
00:30:05
Lindsay Franklin
i think Right. I think it's because that feels like they're saying, I think it hits on that little like imposter syndrome that we have, like that feeling that I'm i'm a hack.
00:30:14
Paul Regnier
Yes, right. You're just a carbon copy.
00:30:18
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:30:18
Paul Regnier
Yeah, you're a hack.
00:30:18
Lindsay Franklin
Right. ah
00:30:20
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:30:21
Lindsay Franklin
Yep. It strikes that chord. And even if they're not, that's not really what they're trying to communicate. That's definitely how that word hits.
00:30:26
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:30:28
Lindsay Franklin
And that's really what I heard him say, like not not special, not unique. um And I'm all about every person, I really strongly believe every person is unique in what they have to say, even though there's nothing new under the sun.
00:30:44
Lindsay Franklin
Like there is a story, even if we're working with all the same building blocks, no one's going to tell the story exactly the way that Paul Regner is going to tell that story.
00:30:56
Lindsay Franklin
Nobody's going to tell it exactly the same way that Lindsey Franklin is going to tell that story. So everybody really does have something unique to bring to the table. And we just have to tap into whatever that is. So when this this editor looked me in the eyes and said, you are not special, which is of course not exactly what he said, but that's what I heard.
00:31:06
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:31:12
Paul Regnier
a tear A tear slowly came down your cheek.
00:31:13
Lindsay Franklin
but Yes. Yes. It really like messed with me.
00:31:17
Paul Regnier
What did you say?
00:31:19
Lindsay Franklin
i said, oh okay, thank you.
00:31:22
Paul Regnier
yeah goodbye.
00:31:23
Lindsay Franklin
I think I said, I think I said, thank you. And the thing about Mount Hermon, cause this also happened at Mount Hermon is that that conference was like six days long or so it's a long conference.
00:31:32
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:31:33
Lindsay Franklin
And so this happened early in that particular conference. And I ran into that editor everywhere for the next like five days.
00:31:38
Paul Regnier
Ooh.
00:31:41
Paul Regnier
Oh, no.
00:31:43
Lindsay Franklin
He was everywhere. And I just could not, could not escape him.
00:31:46
Paul Regnier
It's like those movies where you keep seeing death everywhere you go.
00:31:49
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:31:49
Paul Regnier
Oh, that's horrible.
00:31:50
Lindsay Franklin
That's what it felt like. Oh, terrible.
00:31:52
Paul Regnier
Oof.
00:31:52
Lindsay Franklin
And it really did kind of set me on this path of feeling like because my my kind of analytic brain kicked in once my artist self was done weeping.
00:32:03
Lindsay Franklin
And it was like, okay, um how do i become more special, which is a really horrible, horrible question to ask yourself, honestly, because you already are special. It's more of like, how can i tap into who I really am?
00:32:15
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:32:17
Lindsay Franklin
That's not the question I asked myself. The question was more like, how can I make myself into something or someone that the market thinks is special or the gatekeepers think is special?
00:32:26
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:32:28
Lindsay Franklin
And that that was not the right question to be asking myself. I eventually got to an answer that was, how do I put more of who I already am onto the page.
00:32:39
Lindsay Franklin
And that was the one that broke through. And I think that that will be the one to break through for everybody when you figure out how to put you on the page, because it's just going to, it's going to hit, it's going to hit that niche like we've talked about.
00:32:41
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Yes. Right.
00:32:47
Paul Regnier
yes
00:32:52
Lindsay Franklin
um But I went on this little journey of kind of being inauthentic for a few years. And I wrote the YA contemporary that I've talked about before, which was very important for my journey.
00:32:59
Paul Regnier
right
00:33:05
Lindsay Franklin
But if that had been picked up, and it almost was, that almost became my debut novel. If it had been picked up, my whole career would have looked completely different. And I would not be a fantasy author, which I don't think is the best place for me in this season of my my journey. Because something that a lot of my readers, went my reader feedback that I get, that the things that they highlight,
00:33:33
Lindsay Franklin
time and time again, from book to book, reader to reader, the stuff where they says, this is this is what is a Lindsay Franklin novel to me. These are things that are all best expressed in the fantasy genre.
00:33:45
Lindsay Franklin
It's stuff that I can't do in other non-speculative genres. So if I had been If I had become that YA contemporary author, there's nothing wrong with that genre. I love it. And I like that book still that I wrote, but it's just not the best version of me.
00:34:00
Lindsay Franklin
So um that was, it was an important part of my journey, but I, I thank the Lord that that one did not get picked up because it would have changed a lot of things for me.
00:34:00
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:34:03
Paul Regnier
ten
00:34:06
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:34:10
Lindsay Franklin
And I don't know that my career, I don't think I would have had the career that I've been able to have in the fantasy space. Because it just wouldn't have been, it's not my truest self over in contemporary.
00:34:16
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:34:20
Paul Regnier
Right. But seriously though, if you're an acquisitions editor, can you just be a little more kind? I mean, that's so brutal. Why can't you just say something like, you know you know, yeah, this is interesting, but there's a lot of books that are very similar in the market right now.
00:34:37
Paul Regnier
And I think you might do better if you kind of make it a little more unique. Like how hard is it to say that instead of you're not special?
00:34:42
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm. Yep. There's nothing here that's special. oh And it's so many years now.
00:34:48
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:34:50
Lindsay Franklin
That would have been in like maybe 2011.
00:34:55
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah, it would have had to been my second Mount Hermon.
00:34:55
Paul Regnier
Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah.
00:34:57
Lindsay Franklin
And so 15 years later, i could just... hear him saying that to me. I remember exactly where I was standing when he said that. I mean, it's like it really did hit and in an unfortunate way.
00:35:10
Lindsay Franklin
um But you know as as we're talking about stuff that we learned from this, there was obviously a lot that I was able to learn from that.
00:35:10
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:35:19
Lindsay Franklin
And I didn't quite go on the right path with it immediately after. But in retrospect, I can analyze that and say, OK, here are the good things that came out from that
00:35:27
Paul Regnier
Right. Yeah.
00:35:28
Lindsay Franklin
And hopefully everybody out there can learn from my mistake. And if you have a rejection like that, you will ask yourselves the right questions so that you can get to, you can have the same growth without doing the unfortunate detours that I did in trying to get there.
00:35:44
Lindsay Franklin
But yeah, that, that one, that one hit hard.
00:35:46
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:35:49
Paul Regnier
I think some of those too, like I feel like um it's part of the processsis process that makes you really strive.
00:36:01
Paul Regnier
Because at first you think, like oh, like I've got this gift, like I can ride, can do this, and this is cool, and my friends you know think my stories are fun.
00:36:01
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:36:12
Paul Regnier
And then you get out there in like the publishing world and all of a sudden it's kind of like that, like the star football player on the backwoods team, all of a sudden he moves to the big city and everyone's just as good, if not better than him.
00:36:27
Paul Regnier
And he's like, oh, I used to be like the top dog. Now I'm... i gotta work so it's like you have to up your game all of a sudden and it's like now you're playing in the big leagues and you have to really and i think it's good just for us to um work hard at our craft you know so so these rejections can be this way of just almost like igniting a fire like hey don't be complacent like don't just think like oh i got it i got it all figured out like
00:36:34
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:36:53
Paul Regnier
You know, my mom thinks I'm good. You know, you have to really, you have to really like work hard. I mean, this is an art. You have to like constantly be like striving to be your best because you want to offer your best to the people out there.
00:37:07
Paul Regnier
And you want to, you know, access that, just that, whatever that special part of you is and deliver that to to the readers, because then that's going to um be that much more powerful for them.
00:37:20
Paul Regnier
and that's what we're after right when when we do any kind of art we want to like bless people with our art um i was thinking like the the last one that i was going to share is um i so because sometimes the rejections happen even after you've broken through it's not like the rejections all stop right because you know you could be rejected by like
00:37:27
Lindsay Franklin
hundred percent
00:37:44
Paul Regnier
even comments about your book or reviews or something like that that, that is a form of rejection in a sense, like a one-star review.
00:37:50
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, it is.
00:37:52
Paul Regnier
But also like um when I had broken through with my first science fiction trilogy, Space Drifters, and I was writing for Enclave Publishing, i was in the process of coming up with a new story and I ended up writing like a supernatural urban fantasy kind of book.
00:38:13
Paul Regnier
because it was like this story that just kind of came to me and I was like really inspired to write it. So I wrote it and, um, uh, I was at realm makers writers conference and I had a meeting with Steve lobby. This is like a Steve lobby themed episode. Uh,
00:38:30
Lindsay Franklin
Hmm.
00:38:31
Paul Regnier
But he's already my publisher, right? So you'd think like, oh, this is a very, like as they call it, like a warm pitch or a warm meeting because um you know we already have a friendly you know working collaboration. but But they had it set up where you you have 15 minutes to do pitches to all these different agents, publishers.
00:38:49
Paul Regnier
So i went into him. He's like, oh, hey, how's it going, Paul? And the blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, hey, I've got a new book. And he's like, great. I i figured you might. like what Now that you're done with Space Drifters, you know And so I launched in with my, you know, supernatural urban fantasy pitch, which was a book called Paranormia.
00:39:05
Paul Regnier
I think I had a different name at the time, but anyway, so I pitched to him and I could see as I'm pitching, I see his expression kind of go from smiley to like confused.
00:39:15
Paul Regnier
And I'm like, oh, that's not good. I'm thinking in the back of my head as I'm pitching.
00:39:18
Lindsay Franklin
Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Uh-oh.
00:39:20
Paul Regnier
And so I, after I finished, he's kind of like, he goes, okay, he's like, I thought you were going to pitch me a science another science fiction story.
00:39:32
Lindsay Franklin
ah
00:39:32
Paul Regnier
And I'm like, yeah, I kind of thought that too, i ah you know, initially, but this is where the inspiration is, and I feel really strongly about this book. And he's like, okay.
00:39:43
Paul Regnier
He's like, well, he's like, currently, i'm I'm not really interested in doing another, like he called it like spiritual warfare book, which it's sometimes categorized as that.
00:39:53
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:39:55
Paul Regnier
so Supernatural, spiritual warfare, urban fantasy, they're all kind of similar. It's a little bit different in the the Christian fiction market, but... um But yeah, so he's like, oh, yeah, I was expecting science fiction. and And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, I know, but this is where I'm at. And he's like, okay. He's like, well, he's like, yeah, I don't think that we're going to do this one. He goes, but if you have another pitch, I'm open to hear it, like whatever else you have. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, well, thanks. Thanks for you know listening. And I'm So I'm walking away thinking, okay, that didn't go well.
00:40:30
Paul Regnier
I'm like, what am I going to do? But that was my first step into thinking maybe I should go indie.
00:40:37
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:40:38
Paul Regnier
And then maybe I can come back later and go back to Enclave or whatever. But that really began a journey of me really looking into the indie publishing path and doing all kinds of research and what's involved and what do you have to do. And I did eventually publish that one indie.
00:40:57
Paul Regnier
But I really enjoyed that and I found like, oh, I love indie publishing. It's so flexible and fast and and you can like really like work with whoever you want and you have like this full creative control and it's really cool, which I'm still doing to this day just because I've really come to love the process of indie publishing.
00:41:21
Paul Regnier
but Not to say that like forever, like, you know hey, some traditional publisher comes to me and they're like, hey, here's a six figure deal. I'm like, yeah, sweet. But, you know, yeah, let's go.
00:41:29
Lindsay Franklin
Let's go. Mm hmm.
00:41:31
Paul Regnier
But at the moment, I'm really enjoying the indie publishing path. But again, that's where a, you know, quote unquote rejection led to a pivot in my own path that turned out to be like something really
Embracing Indie Publishing
00:41:44
Paul Regnier
cool.
00:41:45
Paul Regnier
Just because I was open to like, okay, well, how do I, where do I go from here? Instead of just feeling like, oh, I failed, i might as well stop. You always can find a ah different path, you know a different way to chart your path.
00:41:59
Lindsay Franklin
Absolutely. And indie publishing has been such an important part of your your journey. And so it's just weird to think like if you had pitched a sci-fi that Steve was like, yep, let's go.
00:42:10
Lindsay Franklin
And you just continue down that path. it is It's weird to think about that because...
00:42:12
Paul Regnier
Right. I know.
00:42:15
Lindsay Franklin
Like I so closely associate you with indie publishing. And so that's like a very important moment in your career, you know, the moment when you started really considering that for the first time.
00:42:19
Paul Regnier
Yep. Hmm.
00:42:28
Lindsay Franklin
And I think it kind of mirrors what I said about the Story Peddler, how I knew that that was supposed to be my debut. Once we got there, I was like, this is the one and we'll see what doors open to us.
00:42:41
Lindsay Franklin
But I've got, you know, this pivot in mind if this particular door does not open. But it's like when you know that that was the story you were supposed to write and you just feel that very strongly, like this is the one.
00:42:55
Lindsay Franklin
it can kind of open your mind up to different avenues that you might you might want to take to get that story into the hands of readers because we do have a lot of options these days as authors, which is fantastic.
00:43:07
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:43:08
Lindsay Franklin
So that's right.
00:43:08
Paul Regnier
Which weren't here like 20 years ago. These options, all these options were not here. So it's like a, it's a really good time to be an author, you know?
00:43:17
Lindsay Franklin
Absolutely, it is.
00:43:19
Paul Regnier
All right. Well, I think that's all I got. These these are all the rejections that I feel like sharing. ah
00:43:26
Lindsay Franklin
I feel like these are these are my two that are the most interesting. The others are like, you know, the emails that come in and it's like, you know, we liked it, but, ah you know, still no or whatever.
00:43:32
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:43:36
Lindsay Franklin
Those are not not super interesting to share, but um still important. And I think that the last thing I want to say is something that you've already hit on, which is that rejections continue.
00:43:48
Lindsay Franklin
We've talked about this a little bit before that it's, it's just part of, it's part of being an artist, not just a writer, but being an artist who's going to share their work. It's part of it where people have opinions on it.
00:44:00
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:44:01
Lindsay Franklin
Art is subjective and the gatekeepers opinions. Those are subjective. And so sometimes they're going to, you know, give us a rejection, even if the book is really good. um So that continues happening.
00:44:15
Lindsay Franklin
even after you put it out, In the marketplace, there are going to be readers that it just doesn't hit for them. And so building up that that kind of muscle, that resistance to it where we can we can take that, we can kind of take it on the chin a little bit and and not have it you know shatter us or detour us too much.
00:44:30
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:44:35
Lindsay Franklin
And still being able to kind of listen to some of that because I think that's another takeaway here is we didn't just say, oh everybody who is rejecting us is wrong with whatever they're saying.
00:44:41
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:44:46
Paul Regnier
Right. Yeah, that's important. Yeah.
00:44:48
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah. And and it's it's not that Steve was wrong to reject Paranormia. It just wasn't the right fit for Enclave. It also was the right fit for you to indie publish.
00:44:56
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:44:59
Lindsay Franklin
So we're still listening to what is being said through these rejections.
00:44:59
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:45:03
Paul Regnier
Yes. Yep.
00:45:04
Lindsay Franklin
And it doesn't mean we you know, take everything like gospel truth um that we hear in rejections or bad reviews for that matter, but still being open to allowing some of that negative feedback to, to help us grow and to shape maybe where we go next.
00:45:21
Paul Regnier
Yes, you just reminded me of one final story I want to share. it's not And this one's not a personal story, but i I went to this panel of writers. I was listening to this panel of writers talk about their journey. And one of them, oh gosh, what was his name? Anyways, he wrote, I think it was either YA or middle grade fantasy. And like his first book, I guess he was having trouble like breaking through and getting it published.
00:45:47
Paul Regnier
And he brought out like this stack of papers and it was like this thick, I guess, for for people that don't have YouTube, it was like war and peace thickness of paper.
00:45:58
Paul Regnier
And he said, these are all the rejections I got. And it was there was so many, I'm like, oh my goodness, like I can't even imagine how many that is, hundreds of rejections.
00:46:03
Lindsay Franklin
Wow.
00:46:09
Paul Regnier
And he said, but i keep going i keep I kept going and during that time, I made little tweaks. And he said, within that time, I added this new character. um And I think it was a character that was wrestling with some difficult thing in in her life.
00:46:25
Paul Regnier
And he said, once i and then I finally broke through and I got it published. And the reader feedback I got, like um by far the most impactful feedback I heard was for this new character that I added and how she really encouraged them and she really inspired them in their life.
00:46:40
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:46:47
Paul Regnier
And he's like, that character would not have been in the book if it weren't for this long time of rejection and like making little tweaks. like She wasn't even in the initial draft. So I always find that kind of fascinating, like, wow.
00:47:01
Paul Regnier
I wonder if that was why, like, I don't know if it was like a God thing or just like a thing where it's like, once he added that that character, the person that accepted it going, oh yeah, that was part of the acceptance.
00:47:15
Paul Regnier
Like, oh yeah, that character is really an interesting part of this story.
00:47:16
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:47:19
Paul Regnier
I don't know like all the reasons why, but it's sometimes cool when you when you can look back and see like, oh, wow, I'm so glad that I got rejected so many times, which is weird, but because it led to a more a better outcome.
00:47:30
Lindsay Franklin
Uh-huh.
00:47:36
Lindsay Franklin
A hundred percent. And even if it wasn't, you know, directly related to why that book finally got accepted, we know it was directly related to some of the positive reader feedback.
00:47:47
Lindsay Franklin
So it's kind of this, I don't mean to make it sound too mystical, but it is a little bit where it's like that book was what it was supposed to be finally, because that character was included at last.
00:47:47
Paul Regnier
Yes.
00:47:53
Paul Regnier
and
00:48:01
Lindsay Franklin
And so it got to, you know, go out on its journey and reach the readers it was supposed to reach. And so it's, you know, none of these rejections or little detours that we take, none of it's wasted.
00:48:13
Lindsay Franklin
If we don't, we don't let it be wasted.
00:48:13
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:48:15
Lindsay Franklin
you know Use them as little redirects, make little tweaks, grow all of that.
00:48:15
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:48:20
Lindsay Franklin
And these things can actually become major positives in our
00:48:24
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
Conclusion: Perseverance in Writing
00:48:25
Lindsay Franklin
careers.
00:48:25
Paul Regnier
And, and, and I would just say like, keep going. Like if this is your thing, if this is what you want to do, and if, especially if you feel like called to do this, like, just like, keep going, like go forward. Like if you, if this feels like something that's such a big part of you screaming to get out, like keep going and, and like whether or not you're making a ton of money or if you only can do it on the side just for a little bit, um,
00:48:51
Paul Regnier
Like, I don't know, like, don't, don't let negative things like stop you from doing this thing that you're supposed to do, like persevere and enjoy the process and try to put the other things out of your mind and maybe even look at them as times of pivoting.
00:49:08
Paul Regnier
But just, yeah, like keep going, like perseverance, right? That's a big part of this journey.
00:49:14
Lindsay Franklin
Absolutely. Love it.
00:49:16
Paul Regnier
All right. Well, thanks everyone for listening and we'll catch you next time.