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Episode 8: Best Books on Writing Craft
33 Plays12 days ago
Not all writing advice resonates for the long haul, but some craft books truly earn their place on the shelf. In this episode, we share the writing craft books that most influenced our work–and why these are the ones we hand to fellow writers again and again.
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Transcript
Introduction and New Releases
00:00:14
Lindsay Franklin
Hello everybody and welcome to Quilling It. I am Lindsay Franklin and today we are here to talk about our favorite books on writing craft.
00:00:18
Paul Regnier
And I'm Paul Regner.
00:00:26
Lindsay Franklin
So, yep.
00:00:27
Paul Regnier
Yes, but but wait, Lindsay, before we jump in, we have a book announcement ah from our very own Lindsay Franklin, a brand new book. And I want to take a minute so you can talk a little bit about this wonderful new creative endeavor.
00:00:44
Lindsay Franklin
Well, thank you so much. Yes, just this week as we're recording this, um I launched the restitching of Camille Dulane. So if you're watching on YouTube, you can see the cover here, which is blue.
00:00:52
Paul Regnier
Ooh, pretty.
00:00:57
Lindsay Franklin
It's my first blue cover book, which is like very exciting for me.
00:01:00
Paul Regnier
It's very vibrant.
00:01:01
Lindsay Franklin
I love it. And I love the fact that Kirk DuPont has designed all five of my novel covers.
00:01:03
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:01:09
Lindsay Franklin
And yes, he's so amazingly talented.
00:01:09
Paul Regnier
Lucky.
00:01:13
Lindsay Franklin
And I love that my first series looks how it looks. And the second series, you can tell it's a different series, but they look like cousins to me or like sisters. Like they look like they, they look nice on the shelf together, which is certainly not something that you need to have, but it just makes my, my brain happy to see all of these like vibrant, colorful books on the table. If I'm doing a live event or something, it just makes me happy. So Very blessed by his artistry on cover design.
00:01:41
Lindsay Franklin
But yeah, this is the second book in the Rivenly sphere duology. So that series is now complete. If you're the type of reader who you are going to binge and you need the whole thing out before you'll start it, now is your time. it is available.
00:01:57
Paul Regnier
It's nice too, when you have a vibrant cover, whether whether it's like online, on Amazon, or at your like if you have like a book table at an event, if you have those vibrant books, it's very eye-catching, right? So if someone's walking by, they'll be like, oh, what's that?
00:02:12
Paul Regnier
So that's a little bonus.
00:02:12
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, it definitely helps.
00:02:14
Paul Regnier
But that's cool. So is is this going to end this series? is there I haven't asked you about this. I'm putting you on the spot. Is this is this a continuing series or is this like the end of the, is it just going to be a duology?
00:02:27
Lindsay Franklin
This one is just a duology, which was really interesting.
00:02:29
Paul Regnier
OK.
00:02:30
Lindsay Franklin
We should do ah an episode about that sometime, sort of like the difference between writing standalones and trilogies and duologies. That might be really fun to explore.
00:02:37
Paul Regnier
Yes. I've written all each each of those, of standalone, duology, trilogy.
00:02:41
Lindsay Franklin
Ooh, ooh.
00:02:45
Lindsay Franklin
That's fun.
00:02:45
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:02:46
Lindsay Franklin
I guess I technically have two, but I have not published a standalone. I've written one, but it's it's not published.
00:02:51
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:02:52
Lindsay Franklin
it's It's contemporary. It's not fantasy. So it's probably not going to be published because that's not really what I write. But yeah, fun.
00:03:00
Paul Regnier
Whenever I do a standalone, I always leave a little something at the end where it's like, hey, it could go into a full series, but I also want it to be satisfying on its own.
00:03:07
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:03:11
Paul Regnier
But you know just in case it really catches on, I'll be like, oh, cool.
00:03:11
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:03:14
Paul Regnier
I i planted a little seed for a series.
00:03:17
Lindsay Franklin
but
00:03:18
Paul Regnier
So, yeah.
00:03:18
Lindsay Franklin
It's smart. That's smart to do because then if readers are kind of clamoring for it, you're like, all right, let's go.
00:03:20
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:03:23
Lindsay Franklin
Serious potential. That's what we say in the industry.
00:03:25
Paul Regnier
Right, right. Well, congrats on the book launch.
00:03:27
Lindsay Franklin
ah fun.
00:03:29
Paul Regnier
That's awesome. And I encourage everyone to take a look and you can find it on Amazon or or anywhere really, right?
00:03:30
Lindsay Franklin
Thank you.
00:03:35
Paul Regnier
You can, where's a good place? Maybe just go to your website is the best place because then you can buy it on multiple platforms, I imagine.
00:03:43
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, that's kind of where I direct people to because on my website, I have a page for each of my books. And on that page, if you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see all these little buttons of different retailers so you can find your favorite.
00:03:54
Lindsay Franklin
And so it's yeah out there in hardcover, ebook, and audio. So if you're ah an audio listener, it's out there in that format as well. And I'm so excited I got dual narrators for this one because I have a couple of, yes, I have a couple of male POVs in in this one.
00:04:08
Paul Regnier
Oh, really? Oh, you have a cast. That's technically a cast.
00:04:14
Lindsay Franklin
I have a cast. Yes, I was so excited.
00:04:16
Paul Regnier
ah
00:04:18
Lindsay Franklin
i just got my poor narrator for the Weaver trilogy because that is a multi POV series as well. And there are i i can't remember how many across all three books, but I want to say it's like six or seven different POVs throughout that.
00:04:32
Lindsay Franklin
that whole series. And she just did all of them and did all the voices. And she like, and we're talking like from teenage girls all the way through adult men.
00:04:37
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:04:42
Lindsay Franklin
Like, so she just did all of them herself. She's very, very talented um narrator, but for the Rivenly sphere, my narrator for book one, she did the whole thing.
00:04:46
Paul Regnier
Wow.
00:04:51
Lindsay Franklin
Cause it's all in one, teenage female point of view. And then for book two, she saw the manuscript and she was like, can we get a guy in here for this? Is that okay? And they Oasis audio asked me and I was like, heck yes, we can get a guy in here for this.
00:05:00
Paul Regnier
Wow, that's cool. Yeah.
00:05:05
Lindsay Franklin
I'm so excited. Yeah.
00:05:07
Paul Regnier
Wow, that's awesome. I'm currently, I hope this doesn't make anyone mad, but currently on Amazon, I got ushered in on sort of this beta program for what's called virtual voice.
00:05:19
Paul Regnier
It's it's you know AI voice. And I know you know some people just turned off this feed right now. But um I apologize, I can't afford audiobook production at the moment.
00:05:32
Paul Regnier
so um But they they do a single voice. It's pretty good. And I offer it super cheap because I know like not everyone wants the you know the AI voice. But I'm hoping one day it'll get advanced enough where you can do like multiple voices, you know, because, you know, typically in a book, you've got a male character, female character, old, young, and you want kind of some different voices in there to represent.
00:05:48
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:05:56
Paul Regnier
Like, just imagine if you could like just select and pick like this character always gets this voice and oh, man. So I'm just thinking of the future of what might be possible and kind of like getting excited about that.
00:06:07
Lindsay Franklin
Possibilities. 100%.
00:06:09
Paul Regnier
But Okay,
Importance of Writing Craft Books
00:06:10
Lindsay Franklin
yeah
00:06:10
Paul Regnier
but we digress.
00:06:11
Paul Regnier
Let's get into the main topic, which today is going to be our best books on writing craft, at least according to us. And I have a little bit of a hang up when I see lists of like the best or these books won the award for the best, whatever, you know, because it's all kind of subjective, right?
00:06:30
Paul Regnier
So when i see though whenever I see that, I'm like, OK, yeah, best for you.
00:06:31
Lindsay Franklin
hundred percent
00:06:35
Paul Regnier
you know Maybe not necessarily for me, whether it comes to movies or books or whatever it is.
00:06:36
Lindsay Franklin
Right.
00:06:39
Paul Regnier
So my little disclaimer for this episode is um ah since both of us have been writing for a while, we've read like a bunch of writing craft books.
00:06:50
Paul Regnier
So we've sampled a wide variety of what's out there. I'm sure there's many, many more out there that we haven't read. But um we've picked the books that are sort of the cream of the crop for us that have really, we feel like these are so helpful.
00:07:06
Paul Regnier
Like I wish I would have read this when I first started kind of books. And so that's why we want to do this episode, because we thought like, oh, man, this could really help someone out there, um you know, no matter what stage of the writing game they're in, probably like most effective for someone that might be a brand new writer.
00:07:25
Paul Regnier
But, you know, regardless, like you're always learning. After every book I finish, I always read a couple of craft books just to make sure, you know, I'm always sort of sharpening my edge on my craft because there's always so much to learn. right You're never like, oh, well, I've learned everything. I'm ready to perfect. I'm ready to go. right there's always You're always improving um with writing. It's kind of cool that way, but any art really.
00:07:50
Paul Regnier
So I'm rambling now, but yes, this is like our best favorite books that have given us the most impact and helped us the most. And we hope that they could be very helpful to you as well. So Lindsay, I'm going to throw it to you first. Why don't you kick us off with some of your favorite books or at least the first favorite?
00:08:11
Lindsay Franklin
Awesome. Yes. And I'm super excited for this because I learned a lot early in my career and even continuing still, um, the two main ways that I learned how to write commercial fiction, because I've always been a writer, but there is a difference between, you know, kind of writing when you're young, you're in school or just kind of what comes out naturally.
00:08:32
Lindsay Franklin
And then writing an actual novel that you might hope to sell one day. um Whether to a publisher or to readers.
00:08:38
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:08:41
Lindsay Franklin
um So I had this kind of period early in my career where I spent, I don't know, like two or three years, like absorbing every piece of knowledge that I could find um on the craft of writing books.
00:08:56
Lindsay Franklin
fiction. And so a lot of that was done. I did it through conferences, but those are once a year and pricey. You can't go to every single one. And I had small children at the time. I couldn't just hop on a plane and travel whenever I felt like it. I was a homeschooling mom. So, you know, that's not a a practical way to get all of your knowledge. So what I did was i bought craft books and devoured them and wrote notes in them and experimented.
00:09:22
Lindsay Franklin
I would read them and then, you know, like, okay, I'm going to try to rewrite the scene from this draft I'm working on or whatever, using this new knowledge that I had. So craft books were really instrumental in helping me develop and getting me to to where I eventually did get published.
00:09:37
Lindsay Franklin
So very excited for this series because I think these can be really, really helpful. And they're kind of um overlooked sometimes in favor of things that sound more exciting, like a conference or like a big, you know, masterclass intensive where it's video series or something like that.
00:09:51
Lindsay Franklin
Those are all great too, but it can be as easy as reading a book to help you learn how to to do things for writing
00:09:59
Paul Regnier
And a lot cheaper.
00:10:00
Lindsay Franklin
a lot cheaper. And a lot of these books, especially these ones that have kind of been around forever in the classics of writing craft books, a lot of them are available at your local library. So you can spend $0 and find these resources. um So I'm a fan. Let's just put it that way. um
00:10:19
Paul Regnier
Or for the price of a coffee, they're just one click away on Amazon, right?
00:10:19
Lindsay Franklin
Okay. So, yeah.
00:10:23
Lindsay Franklin
That is true. If you are like an ebook, ebook person, especially um i for nonfiction, I love to have a paperback copy.
00:10:26
Paul Regnier
Yeah, ebook.
00:10:31
Lindsay Franklin
And I started doing this in high school where when we were reading a novel in like literature class or English or whatever. I would go to the local Borders. I'm dating myself here.
00:10:42
Lindsay Franklin
In the 90s, I would go to Borders and find that novel and buy it in paperbacks so that I could write notes in it and not just check out the one from the school library because I love to mark up a copy when I'm um when I'm reading and it's something that I'm going to have to like analyze.
00:10:57
Lindsay Franklin
So I own most of my writing craft books in paperback so that I can scribble on them. But ebook readers, yes, these are available for not very much money. So, um
Recommended Foundational Books
00:11:10
Lindsay Franklin
okay. My first book is kind of this like foundational, really, ah i don't want to say basic in the sense that it's like, like a I don't know. I don't want to like sell it short because there's so much really good information here, but it is
00:11:29
Lindsay Franklin
if you're on YouTube here, sorry, get my ring light off of it.
00:11:29
Paul Regnier
ah Ah.
00:11:31
Lindsay Franklin
um It is Writing Fiction for Dummies. And this is by, ah no offense, I recommend this book all the time.
00:11:35
Paul Regnier
Huh.
00:11:39
Lindsay Franklin
It's one of my favorites, but I always have the disclaimer. I'm not calling you a dummy. I'm sorry. It's just the series, you know, the for dummies series, but it's because they dive into really foundational building blocks.
00:11:50
Lindsay Franklin
That's what I mean by basic. It's foundational.
00:11:52
Paul Regnier
Yeah, foundation.
00:11:52
Lindsay Franklin
There's so much good, yes, good information here. And it covers so many different aspects of writing fiction and working in this industry.
00:12:03
Lindsay Franklin
um And so this is by Randy Ingramanson, who is very, very, yeah, Randy is great.
00:12:08
Paul Regnier
Oh, yeah, Randy.
00:12:11
Lindsay Franklin
And he is an excellent teacher, super brilliant guy, and a award-winning novelist, fantastic writer,
00:12:17
Paul Regnier
He does the snowflake method, right?
00:12:19
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, he's known.
00:12:20
Paul Regnier
Does he talk about that in that book?
00:12:22
Lindsay Franklin
He does not talk about that in this book. I think he does very briefly, but he doesn't dive into it.
00:12:25
Paul Regnier
Okay. Okay.
00:12:27
Lindsay Franklin
if you If the snowflake method resonates for you, I think he has a separate book for that, like how to write using the snowflake method or something. um And yes, yes.
00:12:36
Paul Regnier
Yeah, I read it.
00:12:38
Lindsay Franklin
And a lot of people really, really love that. For those who don't know, it's kind of a way of starting with your seed idea and then branching out from there and how to build out from there.
00:12:49
Lindsay Franklin
It's helpful when you have a concept and you're trying to get from concept to like outline or to draft. it's It's a really helpful way to think through what your story is going to be.
00:13:00
Lindsay Franklin
And I think he touches on it in here, but if you want to go in depth, there is a separate book for that. But this has stuff, I mean,
00:13:06
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:13:08
Lindsay Franklin
if I could just like really briefly with the table of contents, and I'm seeing some of my notes from back in the day in here where it's like, I need a real chair. I wrote that in the margins here I first read this.
00:13:20
Lindsay Franklin
I must have been sitting on something that was not comfortable. And he talks about your workspace, ah you know, and having your ah your workspace set up well for for you and for your your body because this is a very sedentary ah type of endeavor.
00:13:35
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:13:36
Lindsay Franklin
So yeah, there's all kinds of stuff in here. There's like basics of craft with showing and telling. There is stuff about characters, editing and polishing your story, creating compelling fiction, getting published.
00:13:50
Lindsay Franklin
I mean, it goes through all All different things, finding your audience and your category. It's such a good overview. So I often recommend this to people as a first resource because it's going to give you that 30,000 foot overview of a ton of different things.
00:13:58
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:14:06
Lindsay Franklin
And as you're reading, you can be like, wow, this is something I really need to learn more about. This is something where like you'll know as you're reading, wow, I need to, I don't know anything about this.
00:14:18
Lindsay Franklin
This is the first time I'm hearing about whatever concept. So that is your signal to go find a book specifically on that because every single thing Randy and his co-author, Peter Economy, um every single thing they talk about in this book you can go find a whole book on that subject or many whole books on that subject, um you know, elsewhere.
00:14:37
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:14:39
Lindsay Franklin
So I love to start here for people when I recommend writing craft books.
00:14:44
Paul Regnier
That's interesting because sometimes I see those dummies books and I just think like, okay, they're doing everything from auto mechanics to like you know quantum mechanics and now it's writing.
00:14:55
Paul Regnier
So sometimes I'm skeptical, like, okay, how can they know everything? right like Is this just like a super generic So it's interesting, but it sounds like they find experts in every field and they just say like, hey, expert, like write a book for us on your topic that you already know really well.
00:15:12
Paul Regnier
Because Randy Ingramanson, he's written you know several craft books, I believe, including the snowflake method.
00:15:18
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:15:18
Paul Regnier
And so, yeah, that's well, that's cool. That's good to know. um
00:15:22
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. Very cool.
00:15:23
Paul Regnier
I will.
00:15:24
Lindsay Franklin
And I think, yeah, I think that that is what, I'm sorry.
00:15:25
Paul Regnier
Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
00:15:27
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah. but I think that is who Peter economy is. I want to say he is like the four dummies guy or one of the four dummies um authors where that might be his you know, why he's there is because he is somebody who is familiar with the series.
00:15:34
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:15:42
Lindsay Franklin
He knows the format. He, he writes the four dummies books and then they bring in ah Randy or somebody like Randy, you know, the expert in the field to co-write it and to bring that, you know, inside knowledge.
00:15:46
Paul Regnier
right
00:15:54
Lindsay Franklin
and then they work together to create this resource. That's very cohesive with the rest of, of the four dummies series. But if, because I know Randy, Randy is one of my mentors in the industry.
00:16:05
Lindsay Franklin
I hear his voice throughout this. I know that he wrote, you know, I can i can hear him in in most of kind of the really, ah you know, specific craft stuff. I'm like, oh, yep, that's Randy.
00:16:16
Lindsay Franklin
It's like Randy's talking to me. So, um yeah, it's it's a cool series.
00:16:18
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:16:20
Lindsay Franklin
They they do bring in like top-notch experts in the field to to write those. So, cool deal.
00:16:25
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:16:26
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:16:26
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Well, so just to dovetail off that, because you started, it's funny that you said like, this is like a foundational book. And that was my my thought for the first one I wanted to show, which is...
00:16:40
Paul Regnier
plot and structure. i don't know if you can see that. This is by James Scott Bell. And this is what I always, ah do you know this book? You're clapping.
00:16:50
Lindsay Franklin
I do.
00:16:50
Paul Regnier
Okay. Yeah. So this was really great book um and ah an awesome resource for me because I always look at it. This is kind of like the meat and potatoes of storytelling. And a lot of times, like I'll finish a book and then I'll think, okay, did I hit everything I needed to hit that a novel should have kind of thing?
00:17:11
Paul Regnier
And a lot of times I go back and I reference this book and I'm like, okay, let me go through, I've already read it, so i don't have to reread it, but I can kind of skim through and like, okay, yeah, I did that. Yes, I did this. Yes, I did that. um And so this has sort of been my found, kind of like you said, my foundational like story structure book that I always kind of check my new books against. Like, okay, did I hit? Did I check off all the boxes? Okay, good. because It's almost like you know you're building a house, you want a strong foundation, you want to make sure that that's good, and then you can embellish and make your house as creative as you want. But first you need that solid
00:17:49
Paul Regnier
ground structure so yeah that's that's it for me plot and structure by james scott bell and i always recommend that's kind of like the first thing i usually recommend and then i can get into the more specific stuff depending on you know what someone's struggling with but uh yeah so there you go there's my first
00:18:07
Lindsay Franklin
That's awesome. I'm a big fan of James Scott Bell. um If you are into thrillers, he writes really smart, funny thrillers.
00:18:19
Lindsay Franklin
that and And it's not like they're just ha-ha funny the whole way through. It's still a thriller. um And there's usually like murdery things happening. but um But he has a great sense of humor.
00:18:29
Lindsay Franklin
And I i really appreciate his Mike Romeo series I love.
00:18:30
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:18:34
Lindsay Franklin
So um this is going to show all of our listeners that we kind of fly by the seat of our pants when we record our episodes, because my second book is...
00:18:46
Lindsay Franklin
ah Plot and Structure by James Scott Bell.
00:18:47
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:18:50
Lindsay Franklin
And I did not know that was going to be Paul's first book that he was going to that's going to hold up.
00:18:52
Paul Regnier
That's funny.
00:18:55
Lindsay Franklin
But oh oops ah but no, that that just tells you that this is going to be a really good one, guys, because we're both like, read this book.
00:18:55
Paul Regnier
I'm glad I went first. You're copycat. ah
00:19:05
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:19:07
Lindsay Franklin
um But no, i that's right.
00:19:08
Paul Regnier
Two out of two writers approve.
00:19:11
Lindsay Franklin
um Objectively, this is in the top 10 for all people.
00:19:14
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:19:16
Lindsay Franklin
No, it's just, it's a very great book and it is totally foundational. So I think that all novelists, anybody who sort of grows up and decides I'm going to do this and I'm going to write a novel and maybe have it published or publish it myself.
00:19:33
Lindsay Franklin
um I think that we each have certain things we're just naturally good at, naturally born with as storytellers, right?
00:19:39
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:19:41
Lindsay Franklin
So Maybe it's really creative world building, super cool imagination. And you can be born with more than one of these things, of course. But I think there's just certain elements of writing fiction that will come naturally to each of us.
00:19:55
Lindsay Franklin
And so for me, that was more the world building and the characters side. Those were things that just felt a lot more natural. I did not need to read up on that in the same way.
00:20:08
Lindsay Franklin
um still Still good to study those things. And I will still go sit in like a character building workshop or, you know, world building workshop or whatever. If I'm at a conference and I'm like not teaching in that session, I'll like go sneak into somebody else's workshop and sit there because you can always learn more no matter what.
00:20:24
Lindsay Franklin
ah But my weakness as a storyteller was absolutely plot and structure. and figuring out how to take all of my chaotic ideas and my thoughts about things and turning that into something that was cohesive and where I could get my reader and myself from point A to point Z in the story, right?
00:20:32
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:20:46
Lindsay Franklin
And that that is what structure gives to us and learning about some of those classic tried and true ideas ah story structures, like the three-act structure has been around since ancient Greece.
00:20:57
Lindsay Franklin
I mean, it's just, this has, that that structure resonates with humans across all of these different eras of history. It's a very solid story structure. And, you know, you learn sometimes a little bit about this sort of thing in school, but it's really different when you are writing for yourself and and trying to to build your own story in that way.
00:21:15
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:17
Lindsay Franklin
So structure was something that I needed to study a lot. And this was the the first book that I read on structure. And so it was a fantastic primer while at the same time,
00:21:32
Lindsay Franklin
it it dives deep enough that I'm the same as you. I will still reference this book and go back and kind of look and and see, am i am I hitting the points? Have I done, or if I'm stuck in my outlining process, like why is this not working or why can I not figure out what point K is, you know, somewhere in the middle?
00:21:42
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:21:50
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:21:50
Lindsay Franklin
And I will go back and reference this this book and and the next one that I'm going to share. But that's that's because there is a lot of depth here, even though it is a really good foundational book.
00:22:01
Lindsay Franklin
So- Highly recommend that for everybody, but especially if you're like me and you need help getting from point A to point Z.
00:22:02
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:22:08
Lindsay Franklin
And some kind of signals that you might be like me in that way is if you have a lot of ideas, but you really struggle to finish a draft, okay?
00:22:17
Paul Regnier
Hmm.
00:22:17
Lindsay Franklin
um That can be a signal that you might need to learn a little bit more about how to plot out a novel, how to like get that sound story structure. And when we say plot a novel, we're not talking about outlining necessarily.
00:22:30
Lindsay Franklin
If that's not how you write, that's okay. That's, you know, it doesn't mean you have to be a plotter in that sense, but just learning about how to get that cohesive, satisfying story structure.
00:22:41
Lindsay Franklin
You can do that through pantsing. I know plenty of authors who do that. So when we say plotting, don't think that we mean outlining necessarily. That's the way it usually works for me. But it it does not have to be that way for you.
00:22:53
Lindsay Franklin
If you're a pantser, I see you and your creative paradigm is valid. So don't hear us say you must be an outliner because you you don't have to be. um
00:23:01
Paul Regnier
Well, yeah, that's funny. you know i haven't asked you, but I just assume you are a plotter, right?
00:23:08
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, but I didn't start there.
00:23:09
Paul Regnier
Okay.
00:23:10
Lindsay Franklin
I did not start there.
00:23:10
Paul Regnier
Oh, really? Okay.
00:23:12
Lindsay Franklin
Yep, I started out, ah yeah
00:23:13
Paul Regnier
Interesting. Okay. Because I'm very much on the opposite end, a discovery writer um or pantser, you know, right by the seat of your pants. I like discovery writer. I think that defines, well, yeah, it sounds better, right?
00:23:23
Lindsay Franklin
It's nicer. It sounds nicer.
00:23:27
Paul Regnier
But no, but I think it defines it it more accurately because I have the idea, right?
00:23:30
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:23:34
Paul Regnier
And I kind of, usually before I start, I have some scene ideas and like, kind of know how it's going to end and I kind of know how it's going to begin. um But discovery writing, I love it because you do, you kind of, you just start writing and you discover the story, you just discover the themes and the characters, right?
00:23:52
Paul Regnier
Sometimes I'll just go up to a character and I'll write and I'll be like, and then he met a dragon and I'm like, okay, What what would this dragon be like?
00:23:58
Lindsay Franklin
who Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:24:00
Paul Regnier
And sometimes it just happens. And it's like, boom, the personality is right there. like It falls right in. And a lot of times it's because of the way the story has progressed. And it's like, oh, at this point, I need this kind of character to enter the story, this personality.
00:24:18
Paul Regnier
um So i just I love discovery writing, but I don't outline, i don't do any of that stuff. And I have tried. It's not like I'm like anti, but it's just like not how it works for me.
00:24:29
Paul Regnier
it's not It's not a method that works for me. But but that's good, though, that we can kind of like share both viewpoints. We should probably have a whole episode about that. I think that might be good.
00:24:38
Lindsay Franklin
We could probably have five episodes about that because it's such a deep topic.
00:24:41
Paul Regnier
Right?
00:24:43
Lindsay Franklin
And I get a little salty. I'm not going to lie. I get salty because I see advice out there where I feel like discovery writers get bagged on sometimes where...
00:24:53
Paul Regnier
Oh, yeah, we get the shaft.
00:24:55
Lindsay Franklin
Right? Where it's like, this is not a real, you know, it's like, it's like, to be a serious writer or a real writer, you you have to outline. And i'm I'm going, no, no, because I have so many published friends who are are doing amazing, you know, and I've read their stuff.
00:25:10
Lindsay Franklin
And I'm like, this is great. And I know that they are discovery writers. So I get really bothered by that when people say there's one way to write.
00:25:19
Paul Regnier
Oh, yeah.
00:25:19
Lindsay Franklin
And it it works the other way too, where um sometimes for people who do like to outline, we'll hear that, you know, oh well there's no joy in that. There's no fun in that. There's no creativity in that, which of course is also not true.
00:25:30
Lindsay Franklin
And for me, I'm just like, all of our brains are different. Everybody's brain is unique.
00:25:35
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:25:36
Lindsay Franklin
And As long as when you get to point Z, when you get to the end of the rainbow, if you have a story that is cohesive with characters who are deep and you have a good arc, you have good you know story arc, plot arc, all of the things happening in there,
00:25:53
Lindsay Franklin
and you've written a satisfying tale, it does not matter at all how you got there. And so you just have to do what works for your brain. And trying to force your brain to be different than what it is, is just going to end in tears and sadness and frustration and, you know, giving up.
00:26:01
Paul Regnier
yep
00:26:09
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Right.
00:26:11
Lindsay Franklin
So I i hate to see that. I hate to see where people are trying to shove others or shove themselves into boxes. Like, like why let your brain do what it wants to do. As long as you end up with, with a a good story at the end, that doesn't matter how you get there.
00:26:25
Lindsay Franklin
So we're definitely going to have to do an episode about this.
00:26:27
Paul Regnier
ah Yeah, because I've heard i've heard like podcasts where they interview and ah an author, and they're like they almost speak like they're in an AA meeting. They're like, yeah, I used to be pantser, but you know I've recovered from this, and you know I'm happy to say I'm outlining now.
00:26:44
Paul Regnier
I'm so much better now. My life has changed. and You know what I mean? Like like they've left this horrible life of of discovery writing behind them.
00:26:49
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:26:53
Lindsay Franklin
A life of crime.
00:26:54
Paul Regnier
Yeah, of like, oh, no, that's something amateurs do.
00:26:54
Lindsay Franklin
Oh my goodness.
00:26:57
Paul Regnier
But now I'm a professional. It's just like, and and I will...
00:27:00
Lindsay Franklin
Nope. If you consider Stephen King an amateur, then yes, because he is a discovery writer.
00:27:03
Paul Regnier
Oh, snap. Yeah, take that.
00:27:05
Lindsay Franklin
yep
00:27:07
Paul Regnier
Take that, plotters.
00:27:08
Lindsay Franklin
Mic drop.
00:27:09
Paul Regnier
I'm just kidding.
00:27:09
Lindsay Franklin
I rest my case.
00:27:12
Paul Regnier
All right, well, let me let's move on to, because I could rant about that all day. Let's move on to my next book, which is, oh, so I just read this last year, and this is my new favorite book on
Deep Dives into Influential Writing Books
00:27:26
Paul Regnier
writing craft. My absolute favorite. I love it. It is...
00:27:31
Paul Regnier
Wait, me see if I can get it on screen here.
00:27:32
Lindsay Franklin
Okay.
00:27:33
Paul Regnier
The secrets of story. Can you see that?
00:27:37
Lindsay Franklin
I can, and I'm writing it down because I've never heard of this, and I love that cover.
00:27:41
Paul Regnier
Oh, it's awesome.
00:27:42
Lindsay Franklin
All right.
00:27:43
Paul Regnier
um By Matt, Matt Bird is the author, The Secrets of Story, my absolute favorite writing craft book ever, because it it kind of, um I don't want to say moves past, but it digs deeper than just like act one, act two, act three, because we all know that, well I mean, those are important, right?
00:28:04
Paul Regnier
But this gets into like why things are,
00:28:04
Lindsay Franklin
Sure. Mm hmm.
00:28:09
Paul Regnier
um important, why things resonate, what what's crucial to have in your characters and things. But it does it in such an intuitive way. where Because sometimes I read these craft books and it's so um it can be so like theoretical.
00:28:25
Paul Regnier
So it's almost like your left brain, it's all analytical and theoretical. And then you go like, okay, I've learned all these interesting theories. And then you go to write it and like you're switching to the other side, your creative part of your brain. And you're like, wait, how do I meet those two? So I think this book does a great way of kind of getting into the more creative, intuitive reasons underneath why all the things work that work.
00:28:52
Paul Regnier
So yeah, I love it. It's my favorite. Secrets of Story by Matt Bird. And it's hard to really describe it any more than that.
00:28:57
Lindsay Franklin
That's awesome.
00:29:00
Paul Regnier
You kind of have to read it to see what I'm talking about. But yeah, it's awesome. It's my favorite. So highly recommend.
00:29:07
Lindsay Franklin
Very cool. I'm going to go, as soon as we are done recording, I'm going to go buy that.
00:29:10
Paul Regnier
Oh, yeah, you'll love it.
00:29:11
Lindsay Franklin
I'm going to buy it in paperback so I can scribble on it. I'm excited.
00:29:14
Paul Regnier
There you go.
00:29:15
Lindsay Franklin
I love seeing one I've never heard of where it's like, ooh, that sounds good. That sounds amazing.
00:29:19
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:29:20
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:29:20
Paul Regnier
No, it's great.
00:29:20
Lindsay Franklin
And if, when I can understand the why beneath something, I will remember it because if I don't understand the why, if you're just giving me a whole like list of remember these things, yeah, good luck.
00:29:25
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:29:31
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:29:32
Lindsay Franklin
I will never remember. But if I understand kind of the,
00:29:33
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:29:36
Lindsay Franklin
the reason and like why it matters, plus the theory, plus the practical application. Like that's when things all start start firing for me. And I'm like, let's go like golden.
00:29:45
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:29:47
Lindsay Franklin
Now I have this new piece of knowledge and yay.
00:29:47
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:50
Lindsay Franklin
um So I'm excited for that one.
00:29:52
Paul Regnier
ah Cool.
00:29:52
Lindsay Franklin
Yay.
00:29:54
Paul Regnier
All right, your turn.
00:29:55
Lindsay Franklin
Okay. My turn. So my next one, and this one is controversial. Yeah.
00:30:01
Paul Regnier
Oh.
00:30:02
Lindsay Franklin
In a specific way. But okay, so I love this one. This if I had to pick one favorite or one, maybe maybe favorite is the wrong word, but the one that has been most influential for me as a writer and developing my own craft, it is this one.
00:30:20
Lindsay Franklin
And it's called Story Engineering by Larry Brooks.
00:30:20
Paul Regnier
Oh.
00:30:22
Paul Regnier
I don't know that book.
00:30:24
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:30:25
Paul Regnier
Okay.
00:30:25
Lindsay Franklin
So it's, it is mastering the six core competencies of successful writing.
00:30:25
Paul Regnier
I'll have to write that one down.
00:30:33
Lindsay Franklin
So yeah, and this one, okay, this is controversial because i love this book, right?
00:30:34
Paul Regnier
Why is this controversial?
00:30:42
Lindsay Franklin
This was the one that after I read Plot and Structure, This was the one that kind of took that foundational knowledge of structure to the next level for me.
00:30:53
Paul Regnier
m
00:30:53
Lindsay Franklin
And it like dove deeper. it It just clicked for some reason with my brain. And I love it. It it transformed my writing. Okay. Yeah. But when I recommend this book, I always have to have a caveat because not too long after I read it, I was telling a writer friend of mine, like, love this.
00:31:13
Lindsay Franklin
This is amazing. You know, you should read it. So I recommended it to her. She went out and got it. And she came back and was like, why did you recommend this to me? I thought you liked me. Like, what is this, Lindsay?
00:31:25
Lindsay Franklin
What? She hated it. And I think that it's controversial in the sense that if it works for you, think you're going to love it. Like if this just resonates for you, yes, it's going to be like how it was for me where it's transformative, amazing, wonderful.
00:31:40
Lindsay Franklin
But you may read this one and absolutely hate it because that's the only two feedback buckets that I've ever gotten from anyone who has read it. So it's one where I heartily recommend it with the caveat that it is not for everybody.
00:31:55
Lindsay Franklin
and it just has to work with your brain and the way you think about story, then this might be the book for you. So this is one where I love it. I do think it probably would work better for people who are more inclined toward outlining, but that doesn't mean it would not work.
00:32:13
Lindsay Franklin
The principles underlying would absolutely work for somebody who is a discovery writer as well. But I think that was one of the issues for my good friend who read it and thought I hated her because I recommended it to her.
00:32:27
Lindsay Franklin
But I think that she is majorly a discovery writer. And so it felt a little like...
00:32:32
Paul Regnier
Oh, is it geared more towards a plotter perspective?
00:32:35
Lindsay Franklin
um I think that Larry Brooks, the author, he definitely feels like outlining is kind of the best way to do things. And so...
00:32:44
Paul Regnier
Oh, I see.
00:32:45
Lindsay Franklin
you know, that's definitely his perspective and he's known, he's ah an author himself, but he's also known as like the story doctor. Um, so I think he does editorial stuff as well.
00:32:55
Lindsay Franklin
And so I do understand from the editorial perspective, why, you know, like as a dev editor, we might look at manuscripts and say, you know, everybody should outline because that'll make sure that you have all your, you know, your structure is very sound because it it can be harder to kind of reverse engineer that stuff.
00:33:13
Lindsay Franklin
I think, um, if you don't have a natural sense for it or or a learned sense for it as your discovery writing. So you can have like the, how do I say this in a way that is like accurate?
00:33:25
Lindsay Franklin
the messiest manuscripts that I edited during my freelance career, like from a developmental standpoint, were discovery written, but that does not mean that every discovery written manuscript is messy.
00:33:39
Lindsay Franklin
That's not at all the case. So I think that it's, that's why people get this impression, especially if they do editorial work that, you know, everybody should write in this other way because it's going to make your work cleaner, but that's not necessarily true.
00:33:52
Lindsay Franklin
It's just that, that authors who have not grown you know, ah in their craft ah quite as much as they need to yet. They're still learning. They're still working on things, um doing a discovery process.
00:34:03
Lindsay Franklin
You as an editor may end up with something that is, you know, a little harder to work with. It's a rougher ball of clay that you need to help shape. But that does not mean that they have to change the way they write books.
00:34:13
Lindsay Franklin
They just need to continue growing in their knowledge because what you can do is you could read a book like Story Engineering or anything that that is diving into the mechanics of story. can't embed that knowledge into your brain that you then know it.
00:34:26
Lindsay Franklin
And that's in the back of your mind, as you are discovering your story, it's all kind of coming out, which is why when you said the thing about like this type of character needs to show up at that moment in your story, as you're writing, that's because, you know, in the back of your mind, that's in your subconscious, that this is what this story needs in this moment.
00:34:38
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Yep.
00:34:46
Lindsay Franklin
And you don't have to sit down with an outline to get there. You just need to have that knowledge in your brain. And so that's really the issue. It's not discovery writing versus versus outlining, it's it's building up that internal knowledge so that when you are either outlining or sitting down to draft, you intuitively know what needs to happen next, what needs to be included, and you can just go with whatever your your creative process is because you've got all of that like built up and solid in your brain.
00:35:15
Lindsay Franklin
So
00:35:15
Paul Regnier
Yeah, it's like that storyteller's intuition. Yeah, i I rely pretty heavily on that.
00:35:18
Lindsay Franklin
yes.
00:35:22
Paul Regnier
And I think um I look at it as like the more books I read, movies I watch, TV shows, whatever, um i I am getting that sort of embedded in my head, like what works, you know, because I, you know, you see stuff that's like,
00:35:22
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:35:39
Paul Regnier
like You'll see a movie that ends horribly and you're like, oh why did it end like that? It should have ended like this, right? you know And there's whole like you know channels devoted to that, like how it should have ended and all that kind of stuff. But like you know what I mean? like you And my wife and I have done this too, where we'll watch the end and we're like, oh, how should the end?
00:35:59
Paul Regnier
We'd like come up with our own revisions of the ending. Like, oh yeah, that's what they should have done.
00:36:02
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:36:05
Paul Regnier
Why didn't they call us? We could have helped them. No, but um but yeah, no, that storyteller's intuition I think is so important. And that's kind of my hope when I read some of these craft books. I hope it just, along with like the stories I'm consuming, like the craft, I'm hoping I'm also getting it just...
00:36:22
Paul Regnier
so wired in my brain that it's natural. like So when I get to those parts, I'm like, something's not working here.
00:36:25
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:36:28
Paul Regnier
What's not working? Oh, wait, I need this. This is what will make this part sing, or whatever.
00:36:30
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:36:33
Paul Regnier
but um
00:36:33
Lindsay Franklin
Exactly.
00:36:34
Paul Regnier
So my next book is is ah is kind of along the same lines of yours because you listed a book that says, okay, this took like the way I write and kind of leaned in on that and made it even more powerful. And that's the book that I'm about to present what it did for me. And let me see if I can show you. This is called Story Trump's Structure by Stephen James.
00:36:59
Paul Regnier
Can everybody see that? I want to make sure that that's visible. Yeah, Story Trump Structure um by Stephen James, How to Write Unforgettable Fiction by Breaking the Rules. It's a rebel book. um But this one, the the reason I like it and it's probably my second favorite book of all time on writing craft because it's it's all about discovery writing. So it leans into the discovery writer's process and even helps you enhance it.
00:37:31
Paul Regnier
But the cool thing about it too is it it also says like, okay, like, it well, first it reassures you like, hey, this is a totally legitimate way of writing, right?
00:37:41
Paul Regnier
and And I think Stephen James is a discovery writer too. I think he calls it organic writing, but same thing.
00:37:44
Lindsay Franklin
I think so. Yes.
00:37:48
Paul Regnier
ah But he's like, hey, no, this is great. Lean into it. Don't be don't let people tell you it's the wrong way. However, like here's what we can learn from our fellow plotter writers, like stuff that can be a weakness for a discovery writer.
00:37:59
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:38:04
Paul Regnier
So he lists all those things out. And it's like kind of this cool checklist like, oh, okay, yeah, right. I see why you know i have like that slow middle or whatever it is, you know whatever thing like and and what I can learn about structure you know without having to plot my whole thing, but what I can sort of keep in mind so I don't fall into that discovery writer or trap that sometimes can happen because I did an outline or plot or whatever.
00:38:34
Paul Regnier
So it's a really great book. And it's it's not that long. I mean, don't know if you can see that, but yeah it's pretty quick read, but like so packed full of good stuff.
00:38:38
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah. Awesome.
00:38:43
Paul Regnier
Yeah, so that's a big one for me. Story trumps structure, Stephen James.
00:38:48
Lindsay Franklin
Very cool. And you know, my very good writer friend who thought I was trying to torture her with story engineering um loves that one.
00:38:55
Paul Regnier
ah
00:38:56
Lindsay Franklin
She loves Story Trump Structure.
00:38:56
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:38:58
Lindsay Franklin
And so so that may be, I think I'm seeing a theme here where if you are a discovery writer, you may really, really want to check out that Stephen James, you know, Story Trump Structure.
00:38:58
Paul Regnier
Oh, it's great.
00:39:03
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:39:05
Paul Regnier
yeah oh for sure for sure
00:39:10
Lindsay Franklin
And if you are more of an outliner, you may want to check out story engineering and see if that one works for you. um
00:39:19
Paul Regnier
there you go right i think so i think so right you are you are up yeah
00:39:20
Lindsay Franklin
Yep. And both of us recommended Plot and Structure by James Scott Bell. So I feel like that is just maybe a universally helpful resource. but that's That's so fun.
00:39:33
Lindsay Franklin
Very good. Well, I have, um yes, I have like, We're kind of going to do our top three. So we've done we've done top three, but I have a couple of bonus ones that I'm going to just do really fast bonus books.
00:39:41
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Uh, bonus book.
00:39:45
Lindsay Franklin
So this one is one I've read somewhat more recently, although now it's been a number of years, but it
Enhancing Emotional Impact in Writing
00:39:53
Lindsay Franklin
is if I can get the glare off of it.
00:39:53
Paul Regnier
Hmm.
00:39:54
Lindsay Franklin
um The Emotional Craft of Fiction by Donald Moss.
00:39:57
Paul Regnier
Hmm.
00:39:58
Lindsay Franklin
um I just thought this one was really fascinating, kind of touching on stuff that I had not really seen addressed in a craft book before. So I kind of liked that resource.
00:40:09
Lindsay Franklin
I thought it was um was pretty cool and in-depth. And if you ever have gotten feedback that your story or your characters or something felt flat I feel like this would be a really good resource to kind of help with that because it it's going to help bring some depth to a number of different different elements.
00:40:27
Lindsay Franklin
So um that's a super cool one.
00:40:28
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:40:30
Lindsay Franklin
And then my other bonus one.
00:40:30
Paul Regnier
Interesting.
00:40:31
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah. My other bonus one. Now I have to put a language warning on this one because, you know, I just do. But this is On Writing by Stephen King.
00:40:42
Lindsay Franklin
And this is also a very unique book because it's kind of a craft book.
00:40:42
Paul Regnier
Okay.
00:40:47
Lindsay Franklin
It's also kind of a memoir. It's it's a different sort of thing, unlike any other. ah And it's the subtitle here is A Memoir of the Craft. So there you go. But it's it's his story.
00:40:59
Lindsay Franklin
And it's also diving into some things that are helpful for writers and just a really great read about being a writer and um super love that.
00:41:09
Lindsay Franklin
But yes, language warning on on that. Disclaimer, i have to take care of my audience here.
00:41:13
Paul Regnier
Well, yeah, Stephen King, no big no big surprise, right?
00:41:16
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. No surprise. And be careful too with Donald Moss's ah books. I do not think this one has any language in it, but I read a craft book by him one time and just like my eyes popped out of my head because suddenly there were like F-bombs on the page.
00:41:30
Lindsay Franklin
And was like, what is this?
00:41:30
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:41:31
Lindsay Franklin
Because I had not run into that in a craft book before even, you know, reading general market craft books. They don't usually have a lot of language in them, but this this one did.
00:41:38
Paul Regnier
Right, right.
00:41:40
Lindsay Franklin
And so it really shocked me. But yeah.
00:41:42
Paul Regnier
ah
00:41:42
Lindsay Franklin
But i don't I don't think the emotional craft of fiction has has language in it.
00:41:46
Paul Regnier
Yeah, I haven't read that one.
00:41:47
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:41:48
Paul Regnier
I'll have to pick that up. The Emotional Craft of Fiction. That sounds good. It sounds like a good way to strengthen your characters, make them more well-rounded.
00:41:55
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:41:57
Paul Regnier
Okay, very cool.
00:41:58
Lindsay Franklin
And kind of searching for that emotional resonance and things that are going to, you know, hit deeply in the heart for your readers.
00:42:04
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:42:06
Lindsay Franklin
So it's a really interesting resource because it's it's not as mechanical as some craft books. It's really about, you know, it's about this emotional side, which is more abstract. And so I thought that was really cool that he wrote a book about that.
00:42:19
Lindsay Franklin
Right.
00:42:19
Paul Regnier
Yeah, know for sure. Okay, i have some bonus books. So this one is is, I guess it would be technically a writing craft book, but I look at it as almost like a writer's resource.
00:42:31
Paul Regnier
And I will show you, this is called The Emotion Thesaurus.
00:42:34
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:42:38
Paul Regnier
thesaurus. Am I saying that word right? Thesaurus?
00:42:41
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:42:41
Paul Regnier
I hear some people say thesaurus.
00:42:42
Lindsay Franklin
Thesaurus.
00:42:43
Paul Regnier
I'm like, there's no A.
00:42:44
Lindsay Franklin
Oh, like a dinosaur?
00:42:45
Paul Regnier
Have you ever heard? Yeah, I know.
00:42:47
Lindsay Franklin
Like a theosaur? No.
00:42:48
Paul Regnier
That sounds like a, yeah.
00:42:48
Lindsay Franklin
Okay. ah
00:42:50
Paul Regnier
um Okay, so the ah
00:42:52
Lindsay Franklin
Theosaurus Rex? No. Okay. Sorry. Oh, boy.
00:42:56
Paul Regnier
the emotion thesaurus. Now i'm that um I got to make sure I'm saying it right. The emotion thesaurus, a writer's guide to character expression. And this is great because, and I think there's they've made like a whole series of like kind of related books now. This one's great because it helped with something that I did a lot early on.
00:43:16
Paul Regnier
um where And I'll give you an example, so um just so people know what I'm talking about here. So let's say you got to a point in your book and you want to introduce a character and they're guilty. You want to like portray the fact that they're feeling guilty.
00:43:35
Paul Regnier
Now, you could say, i looked at Bob and Bob looked guilty. right You're just sort of saying it. like And that comes back to show versus tell. you know So you're just sort of telling it.
00:43:45
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:43:46
Paul Regnier
But this, if you this you you flip through and you find like the emotion you're trying to convey. So I just turned to guilt, right? So under guilt, it gives you all these things that you can do, like physical um movements that the character's doing.
00:44:05
Paul Regnier
So like what it says is like averting or lowering one's gaze, turning away, shifting about. blushing, reacting defensively, short-tempered. So all these great things that you can show the character doing that most readers will pick up on, right?
00:44:20
Paul Regnier
Because readers are pretty smart. They'll see someone doing theyre like, oh, what they're kind of acting guilty, you know, without you having to say, Bob looked guilty.
00:44:25
Lindsay Franklin
Yep. Mm-hmm.
00:44:28
Paul Regnier
You know, you're just, you're showing, and it's more interesting, right? It's it's it's a little more interesting. Now, i'm not like some people are like super strict on, you can never just say, you know this person looked worried.
00:44:41
Paul Regnier
I sometimes throw that in there just because, and especially if it's like a fast scene and i want to like I want it to be snappy, sometimes I'll just say it. without having to like really describe like every nuance because we're not watching a movie. When you're watching a movie, yeah, you can have like a great actor just do one certain like facial expression and you'll know you'll get it right away. Like, oh, wow, they're holding back a secret or something like that.
00:45:07
Paul Regnier
That's sometimes really hard to do in a book, and especially if you're trying to kind of get through a scene and ah in a certain type of energy that you want to keep going. So I think it's okay to do once in a while, but um but you don't you definitely don't want to do it too much.
00:45:20
Lindsay Franklin
Yep, agree.
00:45:24
Paul Regnier
And if you can, like work in something like that the emotion thesaurus can give you to portray an expression or an emotion without like just saying it.
00:45:37
Paul Regnier
Because I think in in a lot of cases, it could just be more interesting if you do it that way.
00:45:41
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, absolutely.
00:45:42
Paul Regnier
So, yeah, right.
00:45:43
Lindsay Franklin
That's a great resource.
00:45:44
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:45:44
Lindsay Franklin
Great resource.
00:45:45
Paul Regnier
um And I'll just, so my last one, I'll just do real quick. Sorry, I got to unlock my iPad here. um Here we go. Save the Cat Writes a Novel.
00:45:57
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. Yep.
00:45:58
Paul Regnier
Do you know this book? It sounds like you know this book.
00:46:00
Lindsay Franklin
i do. i do.
00:46:01
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:46:02
Lindsay Franklin
it's a great one.
00:46:03
Paul Regnier
It's a great one. And it it's it came from like Save the Cat, which was like a book for screenwriters. um So it basically takes the same ideas, but kind of you know turns it more towards novel writing.
00:46:18
Paul Regnier
I, I, my only reservation with this book, and I think it's a great book and and really interesting, but sometimes, um, and, and I see certain craft books do this where they'll just say like, this is the way it is.
00:46:32
Paul Regnier
These are the only types of stories there are, and that's it.
00:46:34
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:46:36
Paul Regnier
And they sort of so tightly define things where, where I'm kind of like, well, I mean, there's things that list that exists outside of those parameters. And, um, I don't know.
00:46:47
Paul Regnier
I guess maybe it's my own hangup where I don't like things being defined too strictly because I think there's always some room for you know other things in there.
00:46:58
Paul Regnier
So yeah, that would be like my only caveat, but to an otherwise great book on writing craft, which I think is like valuable for anyone to give a look.
00:47:09
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:47:09
Paul Regnier
Have you read that book?
00:47:09
Lindsay Franklin
And I believe I have studied some of the online materials related to that book.
00:47:15
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:47:16
Lindsay Franklin
And I'm pretty sure that the author of that book has like maybe video content. um
00:47:21
Paul Regnier
Yeah, ah Jessica Brody is her name.
00:47:23
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. Yes.
00:47:24
Paul Regnier
It's based on the book by Blake Snyder.
00:47:24
Lindsay Franklin
And I, yes.
00:47:26
Paul Regnier
He did the screenwriting version.
00:47:29
Lindsay Franklin
And I think there's also Save ah save the Cat Writes a YA novel, I think came out a couple of years ago.
00:47:29
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:47:33
Paul Regnier
Oh, that's funny.
00:47:34
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah. There's like a specific to YA one now. So um i have read, seen her online resources really highly recommended. And yeah, so it's another great one.
00:47:45
Lindsay Franklin
And I've studied some of, I haven't watched the video series, but like some of the other materials, the written materials that are out there online and it's really solid stuff. So yeah, definitely recommend, recommend her stuff as well.
00:47:54
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:47:58
Paul Regnier
Yeah, that's a great one. um Okay. I think that's all I have. Do you have any other secret bonus extra?
00:48:02
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:05
Lindsay Franklin
I have no more secret bonus extras.
00:48:07
Paul Regnier
No more.
00:48:09
Lindsay Franklin
Have you ever thought about writing a craft book?
Unique Writing Processes and Future Plans
00:48:12
Paul Regnier
No, no, because my my way of writing, and I even feel weird teaching sometimes when I'm at like a writer's conference and they ask me to teach on something because I feel like my method is so like just what I do and it's so clunky.
00:48:13
Lindsay Franklin
ah
00:48:28
Paul Regnier
If I try if i would try to explain it or teach it, like everyone else would be like, this doesn't work for me. You know what I mean? like i
00:48:35
Lindsay Franklin
um
00:48:35
Paul Regnier
I don't do a traditional method. And a lot of stuff I just store in my head, right? So it's like, oh, don't you write all this stuff down? And I'm like, nope. you know I just kind of know it.
00:48:46
Paul Regnier
um So yeah, I don't i have ah serious doubts that my method would work for anyone else. um So yeah, I know I would never write a craft book and it would sell like one copy to me. um What about you? are Do you ever have those aspirations?
00:49:04
Lindsay Franklin
You know, that just popped into my head because I was on a live call last night with the Enclave Street team. So Tracina, our marketing um director at Enclave, will arrange kind of calls for for them at the end of like a session.
00:49:18
Lindsay Franklin
they They sign up for six months, I think, on the Enclave team. And so she asked me if I would kind of be a guest on this live this live call um with them.
00:49:22
Paul Regnier
hmm
00:49:27
Lindsay Franklin
And so they could just do like an ask me anything kind of a session. And somebody asked for world building resources. And I blanked, which is crazy, because I teach a world building workshop.
00:49:36
Paul Regnier
hmm hmm
00:49:41
Lindsay Franklin
And it's one of my most requested workshops year over year. i teach that one, at least one writer's conference, usually more than that every single year. And since I wrote that workshop um in 2020, I think.
00:49:54
Lindsay Franklin
And so it's kind of like crazy that I didn't have ah a resource off the top of my head. Somebody in the chat recommended um Jill Williamson's, I think, Story World First.
00:50:03
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:50:03
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, which I, that one did not come to mind because I have not read it. But Jill's an amazing teacher.
00:50:07
Paul Regnier
I haven't read it, but I've sat in on her class where she teaches it, and I thought it was like really good.
00:50:08
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:13
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:50:13
Lindsay Franklin
Like really good. She's a great teacher. So if you are looking for a world building resource, that is that is a great one. But then Tristina was like, well, you should write that. You should write one. And I went, oh man. but But then I started thinking, hey, maybe these things that I do teach on year after year after year at conferences when I'm too tired to go to conferences anymore.
00:50:33
Lindsay Franklin
You know, maybe I should have like a book out there where i could say, here's everything that if you sat in my workshop, here is that and more, because I could certainly put more information into a book than I can cover in one hour in the classroom.
00:50:37
Paul Regnier
ah you go
00:50:46
Lindsay Franklin
So I don't know. I hadn't really thought about it until last night. So we'll see, maybe.
00:50:51
Paul Regnier
There you go. And then you can sell it after your class on world building.
00:50:52
Lindsay Franklin
It's true. That's true.
00:50:56
Paul Regnier
You know, it's funny.
00:50:57
Lindsay Franklin
People do ask.
00:50:57
Paul Regnier
i always I always consider that kind of one of my weaknesses, world building.
00:50:57
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:51:02
Paul Regnier
Because you know as I discovery write, I discovery build my world as I go through.
00:51:02
Lindsay Franklin
Yep,
00:51:07
Lindsay Franklin
yeah fair, fair.
00:51:08
Paul Regnier
And and i've I've talked to people where they're like, oh yeah, I worked for like a year. I'm constructing this world before I even wrote the first sentence. And I'm like, you are crazy. You could have written three books by then.
00:51:20
Paul Regnier
But, um but I, so I'm always surprised, like sometimes I'll get a review or said like, oh, I love his world building. and I'm like, really? you You, you like the world building because you know, it's basically propped up on like a toothpicks, you So, but, um but it's cool when you hear that, when you think like it might be my weakness and someone likes it like, oh, sweet.
00:51:41
Paul Regnier
Like maybe I'm getting better at this or something, but.
00:51:44
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:51:44
Paul Regnier
But I think, yeah, world building is one of those tricky things, especially when you're doing like sci-fi or fantasy, where you do have to do a little more work on that.
00:51:54
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:51:55
Paul Regnier
Because, oh my goodness, there's so many magic systems and just what the world is like and how it operates and the legal system and like anything.
00:52:03
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:52:04
Paul Regnier
There's like so much you have to think about. I remember I took a break from science fiction and fantasy to write some mystery novels. And it was it was such a relief to like, oh, i can just ride in my own world with the rules i already know.
00:52:17
Paul Regnier
I don't have to define anything.
00:52:18
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:52:18
Paul Regnier
If they're going to a supermarket, I don't even have to describe it. Everyone knows what a supermarket is. you know They're driving in their car.
00:52:24
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:52:26
Paul Regnier
I don't have to describe the propulsion system of this vehicle. You know what i mean? It's just like such a relief. Like, wow, this is easy. you know I'm lifting such lighter weights here. But yeah.
00:52:36
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:52:37
Paul Regnier
But I'm always drawn back to fantasy usually, you know but just because it's like, I love this otherworldly thing. So I think, yeah, I don't know what my point was for any of that, but this world building, you got to do, yeah, you have to do work, but it's fun work and it's interesting and unique.
00:52:48
Lindsay Franklin
World building. We were just talking about world building. We're just chatting.
00:52:55
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:52:56
Paul Regnier
and And it's crazy. Sometimes you read these old science fiction books or movies and then like you say, like, oh, we have that now. like right like you You look at the old Star Trek series in the 60s and they're all writing on tablets and we're like, we have tablets now.
00:53:04
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:53:12
Paul Regnier
They predicted they knew what was coming.
00:53:13
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. They knew. And I am convinced that some of the people, the engineers and such who developed this technology, You know some of them grew up watching that that old ah Star Trek stuff and were like, that'd be cool.
00:53:24
Paul Regnier
Oh, yeah. They got inspired.
00:53:28
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:53:28
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:53:28
Lindsay Franklin
i I think that science fiction authors really do have the ability to kind of influence the future in that way, which is just really cool.
00:53:35
Paul Regnier
h
00:53:37
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:53:37
Paul Regnier
Yeah. And you see these YouTube people now like, Hey, I built iron man's glove and I can shoot, you know, these sonic blasts or whatever they're doing.
00:53:44
Lindsay Franklin
its
00:53:45
Paul Regnier
I'm like, okay, that looks dangerous, but how cool is that? So, yeah.
00:53:49
Lindsay Franklin
Oh, that's awesome.
00:53:51
Paul Regnier
All right. Well, we're running long here. So, um, any last words for writing craft books?
00:53:57
Lindsay Franklin
Not for me. Just keep learning. Keep staying hungry for that. No matter how long you've been in the industry, there's there's always more to learn. I'm hopping on you know and buying the Secrets of Story by Matt Bird as soon as we're we're done here.
00:54:11
Lindsay Franklin
So I'm so excited.
00:54:11
Paul Regnier
It's a great book. You'll love it.
00:54:13
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:54:14
Paul Regnier
I might buy story engineering. I'm a little nervous.
00:54:17
Lindsay Franklin
Just to see if if you hate it.
00:54:20
Paul Regnier
i'll read I'll read the first chapter and we'll see we'll see how I feel.
00:54:22
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. Read the sample. Read the sample online. See what you think.
00:54:27
Paul Regnier
right
00:54:27
Lindsay Franklin
I love it. I mean, if you if you have a brain like mine, if you're if you're more geared towards outlining, then 100% recommend that book. um But if not, your mileage may vary.
00:54:38
Lindsay Franklin
We'll see.
00:54:39
Paul Regnier
Yes. The one I will probably for sure pick up is the other one you said, the emotional... What was it Craft of writing? The emotional...
00:54:45
Lindsay Franklin
Emotional craft of fiction. Yep.
00:54:48
Paul Regnier
Of fiction. Okay.
00:54:49
Lindsay Franklin
Donald Moss.
00:54:49
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Yeah. Cause that one seems like, yeah, I want my characters to be as strong as possible. So i I, like those books where you can go back and reference and say, Hey, did I, did I do all the things, you know, did I, did I do the things?
00:54:55
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:54:59
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. Did I do the thing? yeah
00:55:04
Paul Regnier
All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening. We hope this is helpful. Hope, hope these books that we are recommending can be very helpful to you in your writing career. And, uh, thanks for listening and we will see you next time.