Transcript
Lindsay Franklin: Hello, everybody, and welcome to Quilling It. I am Lindsay Franklin.
Paul Regnier: And I'm Paul Regner.
Lindsay Franklin: And today we are going to be talking about writers' conferences, which is very timely because I have just returned from Realm Makers. And so Realm Makers.
Paul Regnier: Realm makers.
Lindsay Franklin: And so we have writers' conferences on the brain right now. Spring and summer does tend to be high conference season. So we thought some of our listeners might appreciate hearing us yap about writers' conferences a little bit.
Lindsay Franklin: um
Paul Regnier: And a little bit of congratulations is in order because at this Realm Makers Conference, Lindsay pulled not one but two book awards, one for the best young adult book and one for the book of the year.
Paul Regnier: I need applause.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh, my goodness.
Paul Regnier: Like, yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: I can add sound effects in post.
Paul Regnier: I need an applause sound effect.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh, my gosh.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. but Congratulations, Lindsay. That's really awesome.
Lindsay Franklin: Thank you. I'm like, ah literally, my body temperature, I think, just went up like five degrees. just like, oh, okay.
Paul Regnier: ah
Lindsay Franklin: We were just talking about the weather and how, you know, it's it is toasty where Paul is at right now.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, summer. I'm in the 90s over here, sweating.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yes, that was um quite a surprise. As Paul knows, um after we recorded last time, when we were off the air, I had made a comment about, you know, yeah, like, I'm a finalist, which is amazing, but I'm not going to win anything.
Lindsay Franklin: This book is not that book. It's not. I mean, that genuine genuinely was what I was thinking to the point that I did not even write an acceptance speech just in case.
Lindsay Franklin: So that was, oh my gosh, or just a very unprepared one.
Paul Regnier: See, a humble winner. we We always love the humble winner.
Lindsay Franklin: So that's our first tip. If you are nominated for an award, even if you think you're not going to win, write a speech just in case, just in case you have to get up there twice and have nothing prepared.
Paul Regnier: Write a speech.
Lindsay Franklin: that That's a nightmare.
Paul Regnier: Prepare, but don't necessarily set your expectations like that's a for sure thing.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: Hey, and actually speaking of expectations, I think that's a good thing to start this with.
Lindsay Franklin: Correct.
Paul Regnier: So writer's conferences, especially for those maybe that haven't gone to a lot of them, you might have certain expectations and like To me, I've found that having expectations, especially unrealistic expectations, could be the very thing that makes you feel like disillusioned or frustrated afterward. and That could be for a conference. It could be for like maybe when you launch your new book, you're like, okay, I know I'm going to hit bestseller, or I know it's going to sell this many copies, or get this many reviews, or whatever. you know
Paul Regnier: um Sometimes we we have these things in mind that we think it's, and then when it doesn't happen, like we kind of get frustrated. But it's kind of our own fault because we set up all these like expectations that, you know why? Why did we set these things? So since you've just been to a conference, like what is ah what is a good thing to expect? like What are the realistic expectations and what are the things to look forward to in your opinion?
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, it's such a great question. And I think you're so right about expectations in publishing in so many different areas when we set, and and I find that across the board, when you set your expectations on
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: something where, where the outcome is dependent on things you cannot control. That's when you set yourself up for disappointment. So for example, with a a book launch and you're thinking,
Paul Regnier: yeah
Lindsay Franklin: I want to hit this number of sales, this number of pre-orders. I want to see boom, boom, boom, boom. And you set those kind of metrics where it's very specific and you can do your best and put your best effort toward that. But whether or not people choose to buy the book or pre-order the book, it's not actually in our control. And so when all of our goals are set with things that are ultimately outside of our control, I think that's when we get ah disappointment and disillusionment. And we feel like a failure, even when maybe we're not, that's not really what's going on. It's just, there are a lot of factors that that come into play when we're talking about why somebody chooses to buy a book or why somebody might offer a contract or ask for more materials, um you know, because of a pitch meeting at a conference. So that would be my first piece of advice, I think, when it comes to managing expectations for a writer's conference is making sure that whatever goals you're setting for yourself, these are things that are within your control to accomplish. So rather than I'm going to have this number of agents request, you know, that I send my full manuscript or something like that, because that is not in your control. Instead, your goal is I'm going to set appointments with two agents while I'm there. And I am going to have a really well-prepared polished pitch and I'm going to do my best in the pitch meeting and present myself well and professionally. And then whatever the outcome is, if that's your goal, that's something that's within your control to prepare for properly, then you are going to be able to achieve that goal as long as you put the effort in to do that rather than like I'm going to magically force people to request my manuscript.
Lindsay Franklin: that's That's not how it works. So um yes, you will request more materials from me, Steve Lobby, I insist.
Paul Regnier: At gunpoint.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, no, that's, it's not how it works.
Paul Regnier: Unless you can use the force. You do like this pitch.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, ah we are the droids that you're looking for.
Paul Regnier: You will take me on as a client. um yeah Yeah. You know what's funny is you had a really good point there. um It's especially disappointed when you when you attach a value to that outcome.
Paul Regnier: Like if I don't win an award, that means my book wasn't good. Right. And, and, you know, awards have their sub subjectivity, just like any one that says like, oh, this is the best book of the year.
Paul Regnier: Like, okay. There's, there's a subjective judgment in that not to take anything away.
Lindsay Franklin: Sure.
Paul Regnier: And I'm, I'm not trying to take anything away. You deserve all the awards.
Lindsay Franklin: yes Not at all.
Paul Regnier: It's it's awesome. I, so just in case. Yeah. Um, I just caught myself when I said that I'm
Lindsay Franklin: No, awards are subjective. No, I will say 100% awards are subjective. And if you do not think that this is true, what we're saying right now, all you have to do is go on to my Goodreads for the book that just won, book of the year, and look at my Even like I i was going to say one stars, but even just look at my three stars and below reviews and see that for some people, that book did not hit it.
Lindsay Franklin: The the book of the year judges liked it. The Realm of War judges liked it, but that it's not a universal objective thing that this is just, oh, this book is amazing and everyone's going to love it.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: That's just not how it works.
Paul Regnier: Nor is, nor is any book, right?
Lindsay Franklin: Nope.
Paul Regnier: Even, even like Tolkien and Lewis, they all get like negative stuff.
Lindsay Franklin: Nope.
Paul Regnier: But I guess my, my point was like, um, it could be that it could be like, if I don't reach bestseller status, I'm a failure.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: Or if I don't get this or that, like that means that I'm, I'm not good at this or I shouldn't continue or, you know, I guess I'm not good enough, especially early on because early on in everyone's writing career, you're not good enough, you know, like quote unquote good enough.
Lindsay Franklin: You're right.
Paul Regnier: You're not going to measure up to the guy that's been, know, you know, writing for decades and like just honing his craft and like all of a sudden, I mean, I'm sure he didn't start like that either, right? He had to work at it. It's an art you have to work at and get better. So yeah, all those little values you to like, if I don't get this, then that means this. And it's just, And I think what you said is the key is you go in and you say, you know what? I've done everything i can in my power. I've been diligent.
Paul Regnier: I've you know read these craft books. I've been writing and working and trying to get as good as I can be. I've had this edited. I've done this and I practice my pitch. You know, whatever you're doing. If you're pitching, I worked on my pitch. I think it's solid. I've tried it out on a few people.
Paul Regnier: um whatever it happens to be. like You've done everything you could do. So once you let it go, it's like the results are just, it's it's okay whatever happens because, you know like hey, I put forth like my best effort and you know come what may sort of thing.
Lindsay Franklin: Exactly. That's exactly what it is because it, well, it's completely fine to set targets. You know, i I like to have targets in mind for what I would like to see happen for,
Lindsay Franklin: anything, a writer's conference, a launch, anything like that. It's okay to think about those metrics, you know, sales or whatever, whatever it is. um But when something is ultimately out of our control, I think that it is crazy making to make that your barometer for whether or not you're doing it right, or whether or not you're successful or should keep going um in your your writing career.
Lindsay Franklin: So it really needs to be placed in you know, something that's actually in our yard, so to speak, to use boundary speak with it, something that is in our yard that we can actually control or influence.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: um Because then it becomes about effort. And it becomes about, you know, are we learning? Are we growing? Are we trying our hardest? Are we, you know, putting in the being diligent, like you said, are we are we doing our due diligence and really treating this as though it's something that matters to us. And as long as we're doing that, I feel like we're doing it right.
Lindsay Franklin: And so sometimes the outcome is going to be amazing and you're going to hit the the targets that you set for yourself.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: um But oftentimes it's not going to work out perfectly or as well as we hoped. And so we have to be able to build that resilience and be ready for that so that we don't get crushed because there are a lot of things in this industry that will crush you if you let them.
Paul Regnier: here If you'd let them.
Lindsay Franklin: And um yeah, if you let them, and that's a sad thing. So we want to make sure that we are like, built up in all of these ways so that we are not going to be crushed when things don't go our way.
Lindsay Franklin: Because I think every single writer who has been in the industry for more than three seconds could tell you stories about disappointments. And i I know I could tell stories specifically about disappointments at writers conferences.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, right.
Lindsay Franklin: So, you know, there's
Paul Regnier: I think we had an episode like that. About
Lindsay Franklin: I we did. I think we did. We talked about that. um
Paul Regnier: how we both got crushed several times in different conferences.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: But we were not destroyed, we persevered, as as should all of you out there listening.
Lindsay Franklin: That's right.
Paul Regnier: um So since the conference is fresh on your mind, ah what what do you think, like and you've been to several conferences, you've been to different conferences, you've been to Realm Makers for several years. like To you, what do you think is like your favorite things that you get out of a conference?
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, I'm a big fan of writers' conferences um for a number of reasons. I think they are really excellent events. There are a lot of benefits to them. um i i know I've said before that I met my agent at a conference.
Lindsay Franklin: I met my publisher at a conference.
Paul Regnier: Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: I have met critique partners, lifelong friends. you know just ah a lot of my network is built because of conferences i have attended. in the past.
Lindsay Franklin: So tons of benefits um in in that regard. um And i think I think something that's key to remember is that there are a lot of different reasons why you might want to attend a conference.
Lindsay Franklin: There might be different reasons why you might select one conference over another. Or like Realm Makers, I've been all 14 years that it has been in existence.
Paul Regnier: Wow.
Lindsay Franklin: I have attended Realm Makers. And I can tell you, Each year is somewhat different in like why I'm there, what what I'm doing there, what I hope to achieve um while I'm there.
Lindsay Franklin: And so I've been there as a writer. I've been there as a planning committee member. I've been there as an author with my own table. I've been there representing Enclave Publishing. I've been there teaching. I've been there in so many different capacities.
Lindsay Franklin: And
Paul Regnier: You've done it all.
Lindsay Franklin: I have done it all with that particular conference. And so, you know, over the years, I am sometimes attending that conference and others to really soak up the teaching that's there. And that should be probably one of the main reasons that you choose a particular conference. You want to make sure that the faculty is excellent and that the teachers are really qualified to be speaking on whatever topic they're teaching on.
Lindsay Franklin: And that you know there are people there who you want to sit at their feet, so to speak, and hear what they have to say. um That's one of the biggest benefits.
Paul Regnier: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: And so if you will talk a lot about you know pitching and and agents and editors and all of that, but that's not the only reason to attend a conference. In fact, I would say one of the tippy top reasons is to get that really excellent in-person instruction. And there's a lot that you can do. We've talked about writing craft books. I'm a huge fan of those.
Lindsay Franklin: um You know, if our listeners have been with us for a while, you know that Paul and I both are like, we are fans of the writing craft books and all that kind of self-teaching and self-learning that you can do at home.
Paul Regnier: Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: um But there is something kind of special about being in the classroom. Being able to ask questions is such an amazing thing. And a lot of Conferences will have um extra extra teaching opportunities, whether that is through mentoring appointments where you can meet one-on-one with an industry professional and not for pitching necessarily, but just to speak to them, to get feedback from them.
Lindsay Franklin: um I think that those are are some of the most fun things for me to do at a conference, like as the mentor, because I never know what anybody is going to say when they sit down with me.
Lindsay Franklin: I have had people sit down and want me to look at their their pages, you know, their actual manuscript and and kind of give them an editor's opinion or a fellow author's opinion or something on their pages.
Paul Regnier: Thank you.
Lindsay Franklin: I've had people want to practice pitching with me, which is such a smart way to use mentoring appointments because your mentors are typically typically going to be less intimidating than sitting down with a literary agent or an acquisitions editor.
Lindsay Franklin: So you can, schedule one of those appointments, practice your pitch and get feedback from an author who has walked that road many times before. um But I've also had people sit down and say, um can you tell me how to be a homeschooling mom and make this writing career thing work like on the side?
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And, you know, just because they are familiar with me or they've read my bio or whatever, I've had a lot of really like Questions I was not expecting, but I love that element where it's just, okay, what are we going to talk about?
Paul Regnier: yeah
Lindsay Franklin: How can I help you? What can I do for you? um and So that's super fun.
Paul Regnier: I love that attitude. It's so flexible.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: I mean, no, that's that's really good.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm-hmm.
Paul Regnier: I mean, it just, it reminded me, I went to one conference and I was trying to get feedback on a back of the book blurb. And so I was asking people, like especially editors. um In fact, that was the one where I asked you, I'm like, hey, can you help me punch this up? You're an editor. And then I went to this one lady and I'm like, I'm like, Hey, yeah, this is for the back of the book. I'm i'm hoping like, what do you think? Maybe give me some feedback. And she goes, and she just, she like glanced at it and she looked right back up at me and she goes, well, what's your pitch?
Paul Regnier: Give me your book pitch. I'm like, Oh no, I'm not pitching. I'm, I'm, I'm actually already under contract. This book is you know coming out soon. I just like, I would like help on the back of the book. She goes, well, I can't help you unless I hear your pitch.
Paul Regnier: And I'm like, okay.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh.
Paul Regnier: oh, okay. Well, I don't really have that ready to go. I'm just kind of, she goes, well, I think you should have that ready. She goes, well, tell me what you, so she like, she was like forcing me into like this weird, awkward corner.
Paul Regnier: And I'm like, this is really weird. I'm like looking for it.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: So anyways, kudos on your attitude, because I'll never forget that.
Lindsay Franklin: oh ah
Paul Regnier: Like, I don't ever want to talk to that lady again, but like, I like your flexibility.
Lindsay Franklin: Right.
Paul Regnier: And I feel like that's where it should be because you're kind of coming at it. Like, Hey, how can I help? Like, what What's your particular need and how can I try to like serve that need or whatever? so
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, for sure.
Paul Regnier: A bit of encouragement to you that you're doing it right.
Lindsay Franklin: Yay. And I still remember the conversation you and I had about your back cover blurb.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And we talked about, i think you showed me the cover art too.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Because I remember we talked about like, I could tell, even without hearing your pitch, I could tell from the cover art that there was like humor in the story because
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Thank you, Kirk DuPont.
Lindsay Franklin: um yes, Kirk DuPonts, who is ah just such a brilliant cover designer, but I could tell by the smirk on the guy's face on the cover that this was this there was going to be some some humor here.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. yep Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
Lindsay Franklin: And Kirk is excellent with that, with kind of selecting you know ah cover models or or whatever, stock photos, whatever it is, um or if he's doing illustration work where he
Paul Regnier: Right.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: kind of tells the story through the images. And so I remember you and I talking about making sure that the blurb sort of reflected um some of the humor so that the tone was matching and stuff.
Paul Regnier: Yes.
Lindsay Franklin: So, and you didn't have to give me your pitch for us to be able to have that conversation.
Paul Regnier: No, you didn't force me into the corner.
Lindsay Franklin: So goodness, that's crazy.
Paul Regnier: Yes, that was good.
Lindsay Franklin: That's crazy.
Paul Regnier: Why I'm still talking to you. no I'm just kidding. um
Lindsay Franklin: That's why we're friends now. and You're not hiding from me.
Paul Regnier: So yeah, right.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: um you know You did mention one thing that I thought was really interesting. and and went I remember there was a year I was at Realm Makers and um an agent was actually asking me like, oh, you know how did you first get your manuscript seen? How did you you know meet your agent your publisher? And I'm like, oh,
Paul Regnier: um you know I found them online and I did this." and And he was actually surprised. He's like, oh, he's like, yeah, but you'd be surprised. like It seems more often than not, it happens at a writer's conference.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: and that seemed to And that kind of told me like, okay, so that seems to be the most direct path and the easiest path because you know you're speaking face to face, you've got their undivided attention. Whereas if you were just submitting your email, you know, hey, here's my manuscript and here's my, you know, query letter and, you know, all that stuff that they ask for. um I mean, they're going through dozens and dozens of these each day.
Paul Regnier: And, you know, who knows, maybe they're tired, maybe they haven't had their coffee yet and they're just kind of flipping through.
Lindsay Franklin: excuse me
Paul Regnier: But at the conference, you've got their full attention. And so I think a lot of connections happen there at at these conferences. would you Is that what you would take from that too?
Lindsay Franklin: A hundred percent. And I would say second after teaching that that is probably the like number two benefit of um writers conferences is getting that in-person FaceTime with potential agents, prospective editors.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: um It really is a different a different experience going through the slush pile that comes in um you know online or via email versus sitting down one-on-one and being able to have a conversation.
Lindsay Franklin: Now, most acquisitions editors or agents, they are still they're very dialed in on kind of what is for them and what isn't for them. So if if something really is not for them, even if you're sitting across the table from them, it's not like that's going to be the magic key you know to to getting um them to request more to sign you or whatever, but it gives you the opportunity to talk through things.
Lindsay Franklin: And I know I've heard so many stories of you know people who have pitched to my boss at Enclave, Steve Lobby, who is also a literary agent. So he has, I don't, he's probably seen thousands of pitches literally in his, ah in his years in the industry, you know, in both of those, those contexts.
Paul Regnier: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: And I cannot tell you how many times I've heard the story. I pitched this to Steve, but then we started talking about it and he gave me feedback that I then like revised the manuscript, resubmitted and ended up getting signed or,
Paul Regnier: Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: we had a conversation and he asked what else I'm writing. And we had a discussion about this other project. And then that's the one that ends up getting signed, ah whether with him or somebody else. And so these meetings are just, it's kind of like the mentoring meetings where you just never really know exactly where it's going to go.
Lindsay Franklin: And um there can be really pivotal career moments that happen there. Even if that agent or editor ends up not being the one for you, there are some really cool conversations that can take place.
Lindsay Franklin: So It's quite a unique opportunity to get their undivided attention. And they are dialed in in a way that they're not going to be sifting through the slush pile or their inbox or or whatever, and which is not to say that those submissions don't get you know a truly good chance, that they don't get a good chance.
Lindsay Franklin: a good glance. But um there's just it's it's different when you are locked in at the the table and you're just like, I'm here to hear you know pitches for the next three hours or whatever.
Lindsay Franklin: You're you're really going to get um a good a good opportunity to sell your story. And um and then have whatever conversation might ensue from that.
Paul Regnier: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: You just never know. It could be a really great editorial feedback type of a meeting or it could be, you know, like a little detour. I've heard Steve suggest people write in a different genre than what they are currently writing in and all kinds of things.
Lindsay Franklin: You just never know what's going to happen.
Paul Regnier: Which goes right back to that thing I brought up initially, your expectations. Like if you went into like one of those and you thought like, oh, I only want an agent out of this. And if I don't get an agent, it's a failure. But if you go in kind of like, hey, I'm prepared, but like I'm open to whatever happens, then you like if the positive things come out that weren't what you expected, you're still like, oh, cool. You know, I'm going to flow with this and this is going to help me and it could lead to something else. Cool.
Paul Regnier: You know, just kind of being a little more open and less like it has to be this or it's nothing, you know?
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: um Yeah, very cool. um So let's see. So that would be like the pitches. And then um what was the other thing? Oh, you mentioned something that actually happened to me. Like early on in my career, I went to Mount Hermon and um I met a bunch of people, this one lady I already knew. And then she introduced me to the people in her writing critique group.
Paul Regnier: And then we all kind of clicked, we all got along.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm-hmm.
Paul Regnier: And then after that, I ended up being a part of their critique group. And we were in a critique group for like I think nine, 10 years where we met in person. And it was really cool, but it just came out of, and again, that wasn't something I was expecting.
Paul Regnier: It just kind of happened.
Lindsay Franklin: he
Paul Regnier: And I connected with these people and they were all writing kind of similar stuff to what I was writing. So they kind of really got where I was coming from. Which is another thing you should be careful when you join a critique group that you know everyone gets your genre. and um
Lindsay Franklin: We need to do an episode on that.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, probably.
Lindsay Franklin: Critique groups.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: We should. I'm writing it down. Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, because I've been in both. The very first critique group I was in, I was like the only. No, there was one other guy doing speculative fiction, but everyone else was not. So it was. Yeah, I had to like explain things sometimes. It's just like, yeah, um it's great when people just already get the genre and the tropes and all that kind of stuff.
Paul Regnier: um But yeah, but I met them all at um a writer's conference and and that can be such a huge thing.
Lindsay Franklin: for sure. Yeah.
Paul Regnier: I mean, they were so helpful throughout the years in my writing career and helped me to avoid all kinds of pitfalls because they they'd already been through it um before you know they were farther along in their writing journey.
Paul Regnier: So yeah, um cool.
Lindsay Franklin: yeah
Paul Regnier: ah So what ah what are your other favorite things that as maybe this year or other years besides the things we already mentioned?
Lindsay Franklin: Well, I think you just kind segued into it, which would be kind of my my top three things are like the instruction or the teaching, the opportunity to have the face-to-face pitch meetings, and then the third thing, but sometimes it's actually the first most important thing or the biggest benefit, is the networking and the connections.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: is
Lindsay Franklin: And I don't just mean with people who might ultimately publish your work or be able to help you in that kind of way. I mean with your peers and building that community That is it.
Paul Regnier: yeah
Lindsay Franklin: And all of the things that we're talking about are definitely things you can do online. So this is not at all to, you know, say that a writer's conference in person is the only location or place that you can do that.
Lindsay Franklin: But there is something.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, a lot of virtual ones now. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, yes, that's true, too.
Paul Regnier: even doest And Realm Makers has a virtual component, I think, to theirs.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: They do. And a lot of writers conferences have done that where um post COVID, they kept the virtual option up because in 2020, as we all know, it's like every event was canceled.
Lindsay Franklin: And so a lot of events just were completely canceled, but a lot of events decided to pivot and try to do it online so that they could you know continue to offer whatever they had been planning to offer for that year.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And so Realm Makers is one of the conferences that did that in 2020 and then continued to offer a virtual option. And so over the ensuing, you know, five or six years, ah they've continued to kind of refine, I feel, what what the virtual option is and keep making it better but and better and trying new things and figuring out how to like give ah really high value to the the online attendees because there are some challenges when attending virtually.
Lindsay Franklin: And I think one of the biggest challenges with virtual conferences is mimicking or mirroring the type of peer connections that happen in person.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, that's hard.
Lindsay Franklin: At writers' conferences, it's so hard on online um to to have that same same vibe because you you just meet people and can tell, you're like feeling their energy or you know the conversations that you have, you can tell when you click with people.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And so um the I've met so many friends who have become what I'm sure are going to be lifelong friends, you know, friends I've had for 10, 15 years at this point, you know, my very best friends, I'm trying to think, are all of my very best friends, writer friends, and like the majority for sure are, um because, and they're all people I met um at conferences, I'm pretty sure.
Lindsay Franklin: so
Paul Regnier: You cannot be friends with Lindsay unless you were a writer.
Lindsay Franklin: You have to come meet me at a writer's conference if you want to be my friend. That's it. No, that's not true. But um it certainly does help because you're all there at that event.
Lindsay Franklin: Immediately, you have something major in common, right?
Paul Regnier: Sure.
Lindsay Franklin: And, you know, you have this either ah side hustle, career or hobby that you you are engaging in to the level that you're willing to invest to attend an event in person, that means that you're pretty serious about it.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: And it's not just that passing, oh, I might write a book someday kind of vibe.
Paul Regnier: so
Lindsay Franklin: You're there to learn, you're there to pitch or whatever you're there for. And so there's immediately that connection um with everyone who's there. And then you can really tell if your personalities are going to vibe with each other.
Lindsay Franklin: And so that's, it's a really great place for that and for finding those kind of kindred spirits.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: You know, you mentioned one thing was the the cost of conferences. um but Like I always like, I've been to realma here Realm Realm Makers.
Lindsay Franklin: it's a tough one.
Paul Regnier: That shouldn't be a tongue twister.
Lindsay Franklin: It is though.
Paul Regnier: I don't know why it was.
Lindsay Franklin: It's the L and the M and then the R.
Paul Regnier: Oh, is that what it is?
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, it's it. Yeah, or the M.
Paul Regnier: Okay.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: um Thank you for making me feel better. um
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, no, I've been a couple times and I even i was i attended that virtual conference in 2020, which was pretty cool, but it's kind of like you said, it's it's not quite the same as far as connecting with other people.
Paul Regnier: But the interesting thing about that one that I did enjoy is when I did the classes, it had like on the sidebar dialogue scroll that all the attendees would like say stuff.
Paul Regnier: And you know some things were like questions and some things were just like jokey, jokey kind of like stuff about something that speaker had said and and the speaker could read it while they're doing their and then respond.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: And I thought like, oh, this is cool. Like normally you don't get to like interact real time. You're just mainly just sitting there listening.
Lindsay Franklin: Mm-hmm.
Paul Regnier: So I thought that was a pretty cool element of it. I don't know if they all have that because that was my one experience with it, but I thought that was fun. you know That was like a positive thing that a virtual conference has that maybe the in-person does not have.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: um But yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, I love that. I love a live chat.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, isn't it fun? Yeah, exactly.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: But um I was going to say about the cost because like the cost has been the big barrier for me, um you know especially these last couple of years. It's just kind of like it's like a grand when all is said and done, or maybe even a little bit more when once you yeah know do airfare, hotel stay, and the price of the conference itself.
Lindsay Franklin: yes
Paul Regnier: it'ss It's tricky to kind of swing that, especially as us struggling writers.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Right.
Lindsay Franklin: That's right.
Paul Regnier: We're not exactly rolling in money, but um but I found that local conferences, I have a local conference near me that I go to every year.
Lindsay Franklin: that's right
Paul Regnier: And so if I would just say, like if you are unable to swing that kind of cost, like try to look locally or even something maybe that's within driving range.
Paul Regnier: you know if it If it's like four hours or five hours, whatever, and you could drive there, that's another option too, where you can it's still affordable i think um and there's there's writers conferences all around it's tricky though when you want something specific because realm makers does definitely meet that need of the speculative fiction because it's all centered around there and you know you and i have both been to conferences where it's like everything.
Lindsay Franklin: I
Paul Regnier: And it's like, okay, well, there's I met three other people that write speculative fiction.
Lindsay Franklin: but
Paul Regnier: So we're kind of a small little outsider group.
Lindsay Franklin: And they are my new best friends, yes.
Paul Regnier: Then they're my new best friends. That's right. We got to stick together, ah weirdos.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: um
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: But yeah, the cost thing, that's that's another thing that I would mention. and and And I guess the virtual option is another thing too. If if money is a tough issue, you could at least do that.
Paul Regnier: So anyways, there's that.
Lindsay Franklin: Absolutely. It's definitely something to consider. And so i do think you need to be judicious and careful in in what you're choosing to attend and making sure that it's not just about FOMO.
Lindsay Franklin: You know, ah the the fear of missing out is is so strong, especially especially for a conference like Realm Makers, where the community is kind of unique and it's ah been building very steadily over the last, you know, 14 years, um,
Paul Regnier: Yeah. hu
Paul Regnier: And everyone posts online afterward about how great it was and tears are streaming down your face.
Lindsay Franklin: And so Yes. Yes.
Paul Regnier: I didn't get to go.
Lindsay Franklin: And when your whole community is there, you know, it's just like, man, oh sad day.
Paul Regnier: no fear.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes. And so the FOMO is real, you guys. I actually, I told you I've been every year two Realm Makers, which is true. I've been all 14 years, but in 2020, I was virtual because everybody was, but I was also virtual in 2022.
Lindsay Franklin: And the reason for that was because That year it was held in Atlantic City, which is not normally where the conference is. And the flights that I could get from Portland to Atlantic City were awful.
Lindsay Franklin: Like not only were they so expensive, they were like terrible flight times. I knew I was going to probably feel sick.
Paul Regnier: Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: The entire conference, I was going to like trigger a cascade of migraines because the lack of sleep and just like being uncomfortable on the plane.
Paul Regnier: Mm.
Paul Regnier: Mm. Mm.
Lindsay Franklin: And paying $1,000 for the privilege of ah you know like triggering a ah cascade of migraines, was just not I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It was not it wasn't worth it. So I attended virtually virtually. that year. And man, even even being able to be there online, it was still kind of the the FOMO rises up and you're just like, oh, I'm not there for the awards banquet.
Paul Regnier: ah
Lindsay Franklin: I was streaming it on my tablet and stuff, which is cool.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It's cool to be able to do that. Technology is awesome, but it is it is a little different.
Paul Regnier: yeah
Lindsay Franklin: However, we've got to be careful with um allowing that to kind of overtake us and and dictate where we're putting our dollars. Um, because we just, we, we need to be judicious with it.
Lindsay Franklin: Um, because as you said, writers are typically, we're not rolling in cash, especially when you're in the season of like, you're just trying to launch your career for the first time.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: Um, so you do need to be careful and make sure that when you are going to save up and make that investment, um that it's a conference that really makes sense for you to do that. And so for speculative fiction authors of faith, Realm Makers is is one that can very much be worth it because it is so specific to what we do. And the the teaching is really like on par with any other conference I've ever attended that isn't so specialized. I mean, the the level of ah instructors and just the quality of information has always been super high because the conference director, Becky Minor, really, really cares about that. That's super important to her. So that can be a really a really great one to invest in if you happen to write in that ah very specific space in in the market as we do. But you know still, it might be something that makes sense to do every three years or when you have a really specific goal in mind, like, Yes, I want to be there for the networking. I want to be there for the people and the experience and all of that and the teaching and everything.
Lindsay Franklin: But I have a manuscript I am ready to pitch. And so that is going to be my goal for this year.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Like I am going to pitch to these editors or these agents. And so that can really tip the scales like, OK, this is this is now worth the investment for me to do that.
Lindsay Franklin: But yeah, the local.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, you just.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, go ahead.
Paul Regnier: Sorry, I was just going to say you just mentioned the thing I was going to say, which is if you are going to do it and if you are going to make that investment, it's good to like really say like, OK, why am I doing this? Like, what are my goals?
Paul Regnier: um And again, goals aren't necessarily those lofty expectations.
Lindsay Franklin: That's right.
Paul Regnier: It's just kind of like, what do I want to do? What am I going to you know put forth effort? And if I'm going, like, am I going to pitch? Am I just going to try to soak up information? Am I going to just connect with people?
Paul Regnier: Am I going to buy a vendor table? Because now Realm Makers has that expo you know option where everyone has like all the vendor tables and you sell your...
Lindsay Franklin: Yes.
Paul Regnier: So what if that's your goal? Like, oh no, I want a vendor table and I want to sell my books. That's my main... So I think it's good to like really think that through too, instead of just going, yeah, cool. It looks fun.
Paul Regnier: you'll go You know, like do a little like soul searching first.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Like why, why am I doing this? And that's another way you're not going to get like frustrated. Like, oh, okay. That was all right. You know? I didn't know what to expect. We'll do some research first and then like see what it's all about.
Paul Regnier: and because So many people write like after like after the conference, here's my after the conference experience. and They tell you like what they did and what to expect.
Paul Regnier: and Once you read those, you're like, oh, okay. like Even if you haven't ever been, you can kind of get a feel for like, okay, now I kind of know what to expect and what I might be able to get out of it.
Paul Regnier: So it's good go in with intentionality. Right. And the other thing is, too, like I remember the first time I went, I was just really like um maybe too casual about it.
Lindsay Franklin: Absolutely.
Paul Regnier: Like I would go and I would hang out a little. OK, this is kind of cool. And then I'd be like man, I'm kind of tired. i'm just going to go back to my room and chill a little bit. you know, because like that introvert would come out and I'm like, okay, that's enough people.
Lindsay Franklin: ha ha
Paul Regnier: I need to go chill. um but But then I found the whole like, because it's like an extended weekend, and like it just rushed by so quick. I'm like, oh, it's over already. Like there's so many other things I wanted to do and I wanted to meet all these other people. So then the next time I went, I really pushed myself and I was just like,
Paul Regnier: I'm tired. i'm like, no, get back in there. like Go meet some more people. you know Go do this. Go do that. And I did end up being a little bit more exhausted, but I was so happy. like Well, you know what?
Paul Regnier: I really soaked it in and got everything I could out of the conference this time.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: So I feel like it was worth the money. It was worth the effort, the travel and all that because I really made every minute count. So that's my two cents on that.
Lindsay Franklin: That's so good. And I think the key word there that you used is intentionality.
Paul Regnier: m
Lindsay Franklin: And I think that that that is true of any planning that you're doing if you're going to attend a writer's conference. And this does tie back into the expectations we talked about too, where um sitting down and really doing that soul searching and thinking through those things and what are what are the things that I can control? Where am I going to set my goals and and my targets for this conference That's part of that as well. And making sure that it's going to be an experience that that you're hoping for. And we don't mean setting those crazy expectations. We just mean coming away from that, even if things happened that you weren't planning on, um but coming away from that experience and feeling like it was worth it.
Lindsay Franklin: That's the goal is is, you know, like whatever happened, this was worth it. It was worth the financial investment. It was worth the time and the effort. that I spent, you know, attending, preparing, all of that.
Lindsay Franklin: That's kind of going to be the goal, walking away from any event, I think. And um advanced preparation, i think, is a big part of that. And it's it's kind of threading the needle a little bit of preparing enough, but not over-preparing.
Lindsay Franklin: Because you can go too far with it and over-prepare.
Paul Regnier: Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: And that's when I think we start to get very locked in with those um expectations.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, you start writing out a schedule hour by hour, which Lindsay might be tempted to do.
Lindsay Franklin: but Yes. Yes. And really trying to... Really trying to control the outcome um of stuff like you you got to just like be careful about that and making sure you're having that openness and that flexibility, because I think that those are some of the coolest, the coolest stories that we have from writers conferences or any event.
Lindsay Franklin: It's not, I planned every minute of every single day, or even I wrote out a list of very specific targets that I had for this conference and every single thing happened just the way I wanted it to.
Lindsay Franklin: And so, you know, check mark, I'm good. Like those are not the coolest stories that we have from writers conferences. The coolest stories are those things we never expected, we didn't plan on.
Paul Regnier: The unexpected. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep, the serendipitous things. And so we've got to make sure that we're open to those things happening.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: So you don't want to over-prepare, but you want to make sure you're very like, settled in your preparation. If you're pitching, you've practiced and you're ready to do that. If you are verbally pitching and you hate it and feel like that is just the most awful thing on the planet, I'm right there with you.
Lindsay Franklin: i hate it still. I am a terrible verbal pitcher. And so you're in good company, but we still have to practice. It's something that we have to do.
Paul Regnier: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: um So, you know, making sure that you feel really ready so that you are less likely to stumble during your pitch meetings. It might still happen and that's okay. It happens to to all of us.
Lindsay Franklin: um But yeah, making sure that you know which mentors you want to speak with and then being open to something happening at the conference and thinking, oh, you know, he just said something.
Lindsay Franklin: I actually would love to have a meeting with him to talk more about that. That's happened to me before at conferences where somebody I didn't think I was going to talk to or connect with at all. They've said something in a session or i said something around a meal table or something.
Lindsay Franklin: And I thought, I really want to chat more about that and schedule an appointment, sit down and have a mentoring discussion about it. I've done that before. And so, yeah, you just may want to make sure you're open to whatever, whatever that conference has for you because you just never know what might happen.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. i In fact, I remember ah there it was at Realm Makers. I went to a one of the classes was, i think, the marketing guy for Ted Decker.
Paul Regnier: And he was talking about how they took one of his series, Indie.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh, fun.
Paul Regnier: And he's like, here's what we did indie. And like he was showing all these cool results and how they did it. I'm like, whoa, that's really powerful.
Lindsay Franklin: yeah
Paul Regnier: Like, oh my gosh. And that was right at the point where I was thinking about going on indie because that was the same place where I pitched to Steve Lobby, my new... paranormal urban fantasy book. And he's like, no, thanks. Um, so I'm like, well, maybe I should go into you with this. And then I did that class and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's totally possible.
Paul Regnier: And you know, I've been indie ever since.
Lindsay Franklin: There it is.
Paul Regnier: So yeah, that was, you get those moments that are like really key for that point in your life. So yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And I'm sure walking into that conference, you did not think, I am going to sit here and and decide to be an indie author and soak up all this really great information about it.
Paul Regnier: No, no.
Lindsay Franklin: And like, that's obviously because you were pitching to Steve at that conference. That was the plan.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: And so you just never know.
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: I got the idea for the story peddler sitting in a workshop at a conference where, you know,
Paul Regnier: Oh yeah. i remember you told me that story.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah, she just said something.
Paul Regnier: That was was cool.
Lindsay Franklin: This acquisitions editor just made a passing comment. And I was like, oh, ah that's a cool phrase. I'm going to go write a story about that.
Paul Regnier: Right.
Lindsay Franklin: There you go. so
Paul Regnier: I'm going to build an entire story out of that phrase.
Lindsay Franklin: That phrase, the story peddler, what a cool thing to say.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: so You just never know.
Paul Regnier: Yeah, definitely. By the way, um speaking of cool phrases, I jotted down some of Lindsay-isms I've heard throughout this episode. You said, make sure you avoid things that are crazy making.
Paul Regnier: That's a good one. And also make sure your material is tippy top. And then when you pitch, try to get that magic key that's going to get you through the door.
Lindsay Franklin: Oh, my goodness gracious. that
Paul Regnier: You said some funny, you said these things and I'm like, I better jot these down.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: I wonder if there's enough to...
Lindsay Franklin: but
Paul Regnier: ah
Lindsay Franklin: Oh, that's so funny. No one should ever allowed me or allow me like on a microphone. That's just to record the nonsense that I say sometimes when I'm teaching because this kind of stuff comes out of my mouth. Like if I'm teaching up in front of a classroom and then they'll tell me, oh, the recordings are available like here if you want to watch that.
Lindsay Franklin: Nope. I'm so good. I do not need to listen back to whatever whatever happened to come out of my mouth.
Paul Regnier: You're like, burn, burn them all.
Lindsay Franklin: That's right.
Paul Regnier: Oh, very cool.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: Did we miss anything? I'm trying to think like um all the aspects of a writer's conference. And I i feel like I'm leaving something behind here.
Lindsay Franklin: Well, we did talk about, we talked about virtual conferences and how that's a really cool option. um
Paul Regnier: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: It can be, although you did touch on something that I think is really cool, like a a benefit that's unique to a virtual setting, that live chat kind of thing is really cool.
Paul Regnier: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lindsay Franklin: I was thinking about how as an introvert sometimes, especially if you are like, just getting started and you haven't kind of built up because as we've talked about before, I'm an uber introvert as well, but like I'm very comfortable having this conversation and knowing that even though I say weird things sometimes, um knowing that listeners are going to be hearing this and everything or getting up in front of a classroom and talking to people.
Paul Regnier: Oh, yes. Right.
Lindsay Franklin: But I did not start there 16 years ago when I first got into the Now, I mean, it's been a process, right, to kind of become comfortable and grow into that.
Paul Regnier: Me neither. Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Yep.
Lindsay Franklin: So if you're at the very beginning of that journey, the virtual option can actually allow you to connect more. If you're the type where when you show up in person, you're going to be completely super shy and a little bit closed off, and that's okay.
Lindsay Franklin: That is okay to start there and to kind of warm up to it over time. But a way to ease into it could be attending online first one year and
Paul Regnier: Yeah, that's good. That's good.
Lindsay Franklin: because it gives you the opportunity to communicate more in writing. And I think those of us who, first of all, are writers, obviously, but also very introverted, we might feel more comfortable being ourselves and being a little bit more open in writing.
Lindsay Franklin: so That can be a a benefit that is specific to virtual conferences. um Just make sure if you're going to do that, and that's kind of one of your goals, is that you really set some intention there.
Lindsay Franklin: And I'm going to open up you know online and and make sure that you are actually interacting in that way and not just showing up in the sessions or whatever that you're you're engaging in some of that written communication.
Lindsay Franklin: That can be something that is specific to online events.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Do they let you do pitches on if you attend virtually?
Lindsay Franklin: Yes, Realm Makers does.
Paul Regnier: Is it a written pitch or do you do like a like a Zoom kind of thing?
Lindsay Franklin: Zoom calls. Yeah.
Paul Regnier: Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: So it might still be a little intimidating for the you know the true introverts out there, but but still maybe a little bit less, right?
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: Yes. but
Paul Regnier: It's a screen.
Lindsay Franklin: Maybe less.
Paul Regnier: it's not You're not staring into someone's eyes. Yeah.
Lindsay Franklin: That's true.
Paul Regnier: Staring into their soul as you pitch your story.
Lindsay Franklin: ah
Paul Regnier: ah
Lindsay Franklin: And they can't see you sweating as much, you know, if it's like on the screen.
Paul Regnier: um Right. That's right.
Lindsay Franklin: It's...
Paul Regnier: Yeah, and you can pitch in your pajamas. That's always a bonus.
Lindsay Franklin: Yeah.
Paul Regnier: um Well, very cool. I think that's that's a good overview, I think, of writers' conferences. Obviously, there's a lot you can get out of them, and we're both pretty um you know we've both gotten a lot out of them through the years. I think I'm i'm a little more local these days. i try to keep you know When I go to conferences, I like to go to smaller local conferences.
Paul Regnier: Um, I kind of wish I was closer to something like Realm Makers. It's just a little too far, but, um, but yeah, there's options, right? There's, you can do small local, you can do virtual.
Lindsay Franklin: Yep.
Paul Regnier: So even if you don't want to, if you don't like traveling or if you don't want to spend a lot of money, there's, there's cool options.
Lindsay Franklin: Absolutely.
Paul Regnier: Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Well, thank you everyone for listening. Hope you, hope you got some good stuff out of it and we'll see you next time.
Lindsay Franklin: Bye.
