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Episode 3: Yikes, Critical Feedback
49 Plays3 months ago
All writers are born with naturally thick skins, impervious to harsh words and immune to rejections that feel personal . . . right?? Ahem. Not so much. Join Paul and Lindsay as we discuss how we learned to manage criticism, rejection, and the one-stars that inevitably follow all writers who stay in this game for the long-haul.
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Transcript
Introducing Negative Feedback
00:00:13
Paul Regnier
Hello and welcome to the show. I'm Paul Regner.
00:00:16
Lindsay Franklin
And I'm Lindsay Franklin.
00:00:18
Paul Regnier
And today we are talking about negative feedback and how to deal with it.
00:00:23
Lindsay Franklin
Yay.
00:00:24
Paul Regnier
Yeah, yeah, one star review.
00:00:25
Lindsay Franklin
ah Everybody's favorite.
00:00:27
Paul Regnier
I'm so happy that that person hated my book. um So it's not just reviews though, right? we're I mean, book reviews are kind of like the first place my mind goes, but like what else what else are we talking about?
Misconceptions Post-Publishing Contract
00:00:40
Lindsay Franklin
Well, I think that's kind of like on the other end of the spectrum when you are, or the journey, I should say, when you are on submission as an author. So on the traditional side, um you think that the rejection kind of ends when you land an agent or when you sign a publishing contract, like, okay, we're done with rejection now.
00:01:01
Lindsay Franklin
And ah no, spoiler
00:01:03
Paul Regnier
Right. Just glowing reviews from this point forward.
Forms of Negative Feedback
00:01:07
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah, no, the rejection keeps on coming and it can come in a lot of different forms. And one of those is, of course, the one star reviews, two star reviews, or just people saying negative things. Sometimes it's not even in your official reviews. It's just in ah chatter that you might see about your your work um online and just people people talking about you.
00:01:32
Lindsay Franklin
So that, all right, see, I have to reframe. I'm going to stop myself right there and say, not talking about you, talking about your work, because those are two different things. But I think I've kind of, it's an important distinction.
00:01:42
Paul Regnier
Ah, important distinction. That's good.
00:01:46
Lindsay Franklin
And I think I have just revealed one of the, ah accidentally revealed one of the things that authors really ah need to focus on to be able to handle this well.
Separating Identity from Work
00:01:57
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:01:57
Lindsay Franklin
um a lot of us, maybe most of us, are that kind of sensitive artist-type personality where maybe handing handling critical feedback is not necessarily something built in to our personalities, something that we handle well naturally. I mean, is that true for you? Do you feel like you, were you one of those people who just, hey,
00:02:22
Lindsay Franklin
No matter what you say about me, it's fine. I don't care. It's none of my business. i am confident in who I am and what I do. ya
00:02:28
Paul Regnier
Yeah, that's right. Bring it Bring it. no I'm just kidding. I wish. I wish I was that like steel skinned. I would say like when I was younger, I was um way more like shy and sensitive about things like that.
00:02:42
Paul Regnier
And I took what people said a lot more to heart. As I've gotten older, a lot of that just kind of has lessened in a healthy degree, I would say. Whereas, um and I think part of that is just, this might sound bad, but just not caring. Like, I don't care what you think sort of thing.
00:02:59
Paul Regnier
But um but that's I think that's important for any artist to get to a point where they can say, because because um putting your art out there, it does take courage and and just a willingness to accept negative feedback.
00:03:14
Paul Regnier
And if you can't if you like if you're afraid of that, it really hinders you from expressing yourself to the fullest
The Artist's Unique Voice
00:03:22
Paul Regnier
extent. fullest extent Which you should because like if writing is a calling or any artist, you know whatever your calling or gifting is, um not being able to express yourself is is like such a a shame for everyone because then ah like other people don't get to appreciate and enjoy your unique perspective because everyone is unique. Every writer is unique.
00:03:46
Paul Regnier
And to not have your distinct voice in there, that you know that stinks for everybody, not just you. So being able to kind of move past that and and just share yourself like as fully and truthfully as you can is awesome. like That's the best place I think you can get to
Uniqueness through Style
00:04:04
Paul Regnier
as an author. end And and like a lot of times people talk about your voice, right? like if you've been If you've written for a while, they always talk about, like oh, this this author's voice, I love their voice.
00:04:15
Paul Regnier
And when I first started out, like, voice, what the heck are you talking about? It's words, they're not talking. But it's just like, it's that it's that style. It's that thing that makes them kind of unique where you pick up a book and you read and you'd be like, oh, this seems like JK Rowling or whoever, you know.
00:04:30
Paul Regnier
um So to be able to be okay with people not liking your work, because not everyone likes even the best stuff.
Criticism of Renowned Works
00:04:40
Paul Regnier
like I think I was telling you um before we were talking and I was saying like The Hobbit was like such a huge impact for me. I read it as a junior hire and I thought this is like one of the greatest books ever.
00:04:51
Lindsay Franklin
Love that book.
00:04:51
Paul Regnier
and Then like I think I was talking to someone years later and like, oh, that book's so boring. I'm like, what the heck are you talking about? That was like the greatest book. But like you hear stuff like that and you realize, you know like even Tolkien can't please everybody. like Even he has haters piling on. And it's just, there's no avoiding it. And you just kind of have to be okay with like, you know what? Not everyone's going to, it's not...
00:05:14
Paul Regnier
yeah Especially as you get in your distinct style, not everyone's going to resonate with that. you know Think of any favorite book or favorite movie you have. It's not going to please everyone. Some people are just going to go like, oh, yeah, couldn't I just like started reading and then put it down. And it just like drives you crazy. You're like, you don't get it.
00:05:34
Paul Regnier
right But then that could be you too. Some people just don't get you. And that's OK.
00:05:40
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:05:40
Paul Regnier
That's how I look at it anyways.
00:05:42
Lindsay Franklin
Absolutely. i think that that's all very wise. It's it's true. We need to have a perspective like that because this is this is part of it. This is part of being an artist. It's part of being in this industry. And if you want your work to be consumed by other people, if you want your words to be read,
00:06:02
Lindsay Franklin
They're going to have an opinion about what they read and it might be a positive one. It might be a negative one. You might not be for that particular person and you have to be willing to
Embracing Negative Reviews
00:06:14
Lindsay Franklin
accept that. And um dare I say, embrace it. ah That's hard.
00:06:20
Lindsay Franklin
I don't know if I'm ever going to be. Some people, I just, I am in awe of the authors who are like, yes, I love my one stars. That legitimizes me like as as an artist, it legitimizes me as an author because it means I'm, and it truly does mean that your work is reaching beyond your personal sphere, right?
00:06:41
Lindsay Franklin
So if you release a book and you have five reviews on Amazon and you know every single person who has reviewed that book, like you you know all of those people, they know you, you might have a five-star average there.
00:06:49
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:06:54
Lindsay Franklin
But that book is staying really tight in your own personal sphere with people who know you, they love you, they support you. They already know that you are for them, right? Like if it's your friends, your family,
00:07:08
Lindsay Franklin
They already know that that they like you. They like what you have to say.
00:07:11
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:07:13
Lindsay Franklin
So when you do get those one and two star reviews or even those three star reviews, sometimes those hurt the worst for me where they're just meh. You know, it's like it's not that they hated it or they loved it.
00:07:21
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:07:24
Lindsay Franklin
It was just, okay, that's a thing I read. I'm like, oh, that hurts. ah But, right?
00:07:31
Paul Regnier
Yeah. You don't want that comment that says mediocre. You're just like, oh
00:07:33
Lindsay Franklin
Right? Yeah, C plus. Oh, no. ah Or D plus, even worse. oh um Yeah. who but But it does mean that your book is getting out there.
00:07:46
Lindsay Franklin
It's reaching beyond your sphere. It's reaching readers who don't have a personal stake in whether or not they're going to hurt your feelings. And
Credibility through Mixed Reviews
00:07:55
Lindsay Franklin
so that it it is a good thing.
00:07:55
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:07:56
Lindsay Franklin
it It is good. But I'm never going to.
00:07:58
Paul Regnier
And don't they always say that's kind of like the author milestone?
00:07:59
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:08:00
Paul Regnier
Like, hey, I got my first one-star review.
00:08:02
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:08:02
Paul Regnier
I'm i'm like, I've arrived. I'm an authentic author.
00:08:05
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. I'm real now. I'm real. ah Yes. Yes.
00:08:10
Paul Regnier
I'm a real boy. um didn't Didn't they, so I heard something too that said something about statistics or something that if your reviews are all like glowing five stars, people that may not know you or or they're checking out your book, they might look at that as suspicious anyways.
00:08:27
Paul Regnier
They're like, wait a second, no negative reviews?
00:08:28
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:08:30
Paul Regnier
Are you kidding me? um So like even to have some of those in the mix, I think can even further legitimize like how your book looks like, oh yeah, okay, there's people on both sides. As long as hopefully you get more on the positive side, right?
00:08:45
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, yes.
00:08:46
Paul Regnier
You don't want like a full palette of one-star reviews. but um But yeah, I think it it can be good. And you know you might not want to read them you might not want to read, but just to see like, okay, there's a one star. I'm not going to read it, but okay, it's there. Whatever.
00:09:02
Lindsay Franklin
It's there. I'm a real boy and yay.
00:09:03
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:09:05
Lindsay Franklin
Okay. It's good. Yeah, no, it definitely does. It shows that there are people out there reading your book. These are not, you know, paid reviewers or just that hand selected, like ah a street team is not a bad thing to have.
00:09:19
Lindsay Franklin
I love my street team. We should do a whole episode just on street teams, but, and
00:09:21
Paul Regnier
Hmm.
00:09:23
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:09:24
Lindsay Franklin
Yes,
Importance of Street Teams
00:09:25
Lindsay Franklin
absolutely. um So those those early readers who get access to your your book, your ARCs, and they are going to get out there on release day and be posting reviews on Amazon.
00:09:36
Lindsay Franklin
Before release day, they might be posting reviews on Goodreads. And those are going to trend way more positively. And that's okay. The reason that happens is because you have put out a call to your street team or your ARC team or however you're you're doing it, like, hey, do you want to help me launch this book? And it's It's self-filtering, self-selecting, right? The people who are going to say, yes, I'm going to click that link and fill out that form are lots of times people who are either already fans of your work or they are at least interested in you and what you have said your work is, like if they just know you from social. So it's self-selecting for people who are already interested parties in a way that somebody just buying your book at a retail or
00:10:20
Lindsay Franklin
doesn't necessarily have that connection. So of course, your reviews with your your early readers are going to trend more positively than they will over time. um So that is not what I mean when I say kind of these illegitimate ah paid reviews where it's like you you are just paying people to give you those those glowing five-star reviews.
00:10:36
Paul Regnier
Right. Right.
00:10:40
Lindsay Franklin
five star reviews that and that does look suspicious.
00:10:41
Paul Regnier
right
00:10:43
Lindsay Franklin
And if you don't have any other if there's no even four stars or threes or twos or ones, then um consumers do look at that and go because it doesn't look real.
00:10:54
Paul Regnier
Right. And that launch team, that arc team, that's kind of like the suit of armor you put on before battle, right? Because you're not just going to run out like some berserker, you know, and just like, ah, I've got my club and that's it.
00:11:00
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:11:07
Paul Regnier
um And my loincloth and that's all. um Because you'll get rocked.
00:11:10
Lindsay Franklin
Don't do that.
00:11:11
Paul Regnier
Yeah. But if you have the the that that foundation, right, especially like on launch day or launch week, you get some like a good foundation of like mostly positive reviews.
00:11:22
Paul Regnier
When the negative ones do come in, you've kind of got that nice cushion, right, to kind of keep you floating up towards like a more higher mark.
00:11:26
Lindsay Franklin
Yep. Mm
00:11:30
Paul Regnier
um So that's a good way to to counter some of that, to have that launch team, arc team in place on launch day and launch week.
00:11:34
Lindsay Franklin
hmm.
00:11:38
Paul Regnier
And then it's like, those one stars won't, or two stars won't hurt as much, right? It'll just be like, oh, okay. Yeah. I've got a cushion in place. I'm good. I can take it.
00:11:48
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. And now I'm a real boy and all is well. This book is doing its thing. Yeah. So it's it's definitely a good,
00:11:55
Paul Regnier
is turning into a Pinocchio here. Yeah.
00:11:58
Lindsay Franklin
perfect. Yes. It's um definitely a good, good strategy.
00:12:03
Paul Regnier
So before we get to, like, cause you mentioned some other stuff um as far as negativity, like we, this is when your book launches, right?
Manuscript Rejection Insights
00:12:11
Paul Regnier
We're talking about book reviews, but like maybe early on, it might be good to be prepared for those um when you're trying to submit to like, let's say you're going to the traditional route and you're submitting to agents and publishers.
00:12:26
Paul Regnier
And maybe they'll come back with feedback that says, nope, not for us. or like you know Or they won't even respond at all. you know It's like crickets, which might even be worse.
00:12:36
Paul Regnier
So you're in the traditional publishing industry.
00:12:37
Lindsay Franklin
yeah
00:12:39
Paul Regnier
And so maybe you can give an inside scoop on like why not to take that so harshly or so personally.
00:12:48
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, there, and I think that this is something you have mentioned in other episodes where there are myriad reasons why. a publisher says no or an agent says no and is it about the quality of the writing?
00:13:02
Lindsay Franklin
Sometimes. Sometimes it it is and the best kind of rejection to get from an agent or a publisher is when they tell you why, when they tell you why, and they say something like the writing isn't quite there.
00:13:18
Lindsay Franklin
That's actually really helpful feedback. And even though it is negative feedback, it's, it's critical feedback in a way you can do something with that, right? You can take that note and go learn more about craft. You can go polish up your writing more. You can take some classes, you can read some books, you can, you know,
00:13:38
Lindsay Franklin
go to conferences, sit in workshops, maybe hire a mentor or freelance editor or whatever. There are are so many different things you can do to um to help brush up your craft.
00:13:50
Lindsay Franklin
um But that is by far not the only reason why a an agent or an editor would reject a manuscript. And oftentimes it is because we have something similar that is releasing soon. Or even if it's not soon, just something that...
00:14:07
Lindsay Franklin
has already been done. We like an enclave just last week, Sarah Ella's Cinderella retelling released last Tuesday. Awesome.
00:14:18
Lindsay Franklin
um Super cool. Like, and so on brand for her beautiful, sparkly, wonderful book. That is not to say we will never, ever publish another Cinderella retelling. It's a really popular, you know, story.
00:14:30
Lindsay Franklin
But if somebody comes to us with a really direct, obvious Cinderella retelling right now,
00:14:36
Paul Regnier
Yeah. Be hard at this point to publish that. Yeah.
00:14:38
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah, because you're just kind of setting that author up. It's actually a favor to you as the author if the publisher rejects it because they have something similar because you are just setting that second author ah to fail in a way when the publisher has already put their sort of, you know, marketing juice behind the first author to do it.
00:14:54
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:15:00
Lindsay Franklin
And now you're just kind of like the the second second go at it, it's it's not the best thing.
00:15:06
Paul Regnier
Right. Yeah.
00:15:07
Lindsay Franklin
It would be better to be like the Cinderella retelling at a different house where they're putting all of their Cinderella marketing oomph behind you and you're not having to kind of share that space with somebody else.
00:15:16
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:15:19
Lindsay Franklin
So that is a very common reason why manuscripts are rejected um at publishers
Improving Acceptance Chances
00:15:25
Paul Regnier
Yeah. And I would think like going back to my suit of armor analogy, if you are going to send your book out to a publisher or an agent or something like that, it might be a good step initially to go through an editor who can like clean it up or, or even give you that, that first round sort of that developmental feedback, which is like the big picture feedback, like,
00:15:25
Lindsay Franklin
particularly.
00:15:50
Paul Regnier
oh, you know here's my comments on your overall plot, or this character's a little weak, or you can strengthen this character even more, or the theme's a little muddy, whatever they say, that's something you can sort of, um you know like a preliminary kind of, I'm i'm not thinking of the word.
00:16:08
Paul Regnier
what is What am I thinking of? Preemptive. Thank you. Preemptive.
00:16:10
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:16:11
Paul Regnier
I helped myself. My brain recalled. A preemptive strike against a negative feedback because you are building this suit of armor around your story so that when you submit it, it's that much stronger to resist the slings and arrows of the the publishing house.
00:16:30
Paul Regnier
Ooh, look at that. That all came together nicely. little fumbly in the middle, but it all ended up okay.
00:16:34
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:16:37
Paul Regnier
But you know what I mean? like like you You prep it as much as you can.
00:16:39
Lindsay Franklin
Yes.
00:16:40
Paul Regnier
You make it as strong as you can.
00:16:41
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:16:42
Paul Regnier
And that's hard for maybe people that are a little more impatient like I am. And you just want to, oh, no no, it's done. i just It's ready to go. I want to see. you know You kind of want to do your due diligence and maybe even get it edited.
00:16:53
Paul Regnier
Yeah. And I know, so but that's weird, right? Because you think, no, no, no, an editor is what the publisher provides. So I'm not saying go through that hole, because you're going to do several rounds of editing, right?
00:17:01
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:17:05
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, yes.
00:17:06
Paul Regnier
So maybe at least that um a development or just a manuscript critique, something,
00:17:13
Lindsay Franklin
Mm hmm.
00:17:13
Paul Regnier
um or or at the very least some people around you that will be honest with you. um And this is where I might recommend being a part of a critique group, a writer's critique group, and getting feedback from other writers and just hearing what they say and kind of like um you you know polishing up your story that way with their feedback.
00:17:22
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:17:34
Paul Regnier
you know These are all things you can do to prepare and prevent from a truly negative reaction once you put it out there to be judged.
00:17:43
Lindsay Franklin
Right.
Building Emotional Resilience
00:17:44
Lindsay Franklin
And there's kind of two sides to that as well. There's sort of two reasons to do that. Um, and beta readers are great for this as well, especially if you, if you are an author who has published other things already, and you kind of have readers out there already, even if they're not fellow authors, sometimes that reader feedback is extremely helpful.
00:17:51
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:18:06
Lindsay Franklin
Um, you So it kind of depends on where you are in in your journey. But there are two reasons to do this, two ways this kind of arms us. ah The first is that it makes sure that your manuscript is going to be as good as it possibly can be before you submit it.
00:18:23
Lindsay Franklin
And so that gives you a better chance of not receiving the rejection in the first place. But there's a second half of this, and that is when you have had other people look at your work, they've given you some critical, constructive feedback that you've taken, you've applied it, you've strengthened the manuscript.
00:18:45
Lindsay Franklin
The more of that that you do, the more solid and secure that you're going to feel in where the story is at. You know you put in the work. Other people have looked at it. They have liked it. They've said it's good.
00:18:56
Lindsay Franklin
Like it builds up that confidence a little bit where is easier to not take it personally if you do get that rejection and to really believe it.
00:18:59
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:19:05
Lindsay Franklin
Because that's the other thing is sometimes I see this a lot in amongst my author friends, especially with but those of us who are maybe on the more sensitive side where we might even get that reason from, you know, a publisher or an agent or whoever where they tell us why they're rejecting it.
00:19:26
Lindsay Franklin
but we don't believe them. We believe that ah you know they are just being nice when they say that you know it's not what we're looking for at this time, or it's not really on brand for us.
00:19:37
Lindsay Franklin
That's another reason publishers might reject a manuscript is if it just doesn't um fit into what they are publishing at this moment, not on brand for them.
00:19:46
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:19:47
Lindsay Franklin
um And sometimes authors still hear your book is terrible when these kinds of things are given. And so when you have that kind of reaction to a business decision, that is a signal to you that there is a little bit of emotional work that needs to be done on your part as the author, as the writer, that you know, i maybe need to get to a place, so like get into a better headspace with my work and where I'm at with that.
00:20:21
Lindsay Franklin
And really hearing what people are saying when they do reject you or give you that, that criticism as to why they're not saying yes, or why they are, you know, not five starring your, your book or whatever it is.
00:20:34
Lindsay Franklin
So it's kind of, it's a two way street.
00:20:34
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:20:38
Lindsay Franklin
sometimes Sometimes we are the problem. That's what I'm saying.
00:20:42
Paul Regnier
Yeah, that that is interesting. it's It's so funny because I'm trying to think of this. It's a little different from the indie publishing route that
Personal Resilience Experiences
00:20:50
Paul Regnier
I'm in because i don't I don't have to submit it to anybody.
00:20:50
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:20:55
Paul Regnier
like I don't have an agent or a publisher to go through. It's kind of like it it goes live when I say it goes live, right? When I think it's ready, which is weird like now that we're talking about all these maybe...
00:21:02
Lindsay Franklin
Yep. Yeah.
00:21:07
Paul Regnier
maybe um not insecurities, but all these doubts we have, I think is a better word.
00:21:12
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:21:13
Paul Regnier
Because every writer has doubts. I don't care how confident you are in your style or whatever.
00:21:18
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:21:18
Paul Regnier
We all have doubts. and And it could even be like, oh man, my last book did really good. Is this one going to measure up? Or i am I going now on the downhill and everyone's going to go like... I liked his first book, but boy, this one sucks. He lost his touch.
00:21:32
Paul Regnier
Right? Like anything we think that might, I mean, it's just inevitable.
00:21:33
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:21:37
Paul Regnier
um
00:21:37
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:21:38
Paul Regnier
but But it is interesting, guy. I'm trying to think the why I'm okay with it now because I didn't used to be. especially when I was first starting. um And I think I told you the story just when we were talking before the podcast was when I first started, i um I'd had some jobs that built up a little bit more of a thicker skin than when I was a kid.
00:22:01
Paul Regnier
But then when I started publishing, when I put out my first book and like I got a little bit of negativity on it, it was it hit me like way harder than I thought it would.
00:22:12
Paul Regnier
And because I had built up a thick skin for a lot of other things, but I didn't realize writing was like a lot more personal to me. It was this thing I had that I thought, oh, you know, I kind of got this cool little thing that I do. i write stories and people generally like them.
00:22:27
Paul Regnier
but now I'm competing in you you know the big leagues and now it's like the critiques get a little harsher and then it's like, ooh, boy, that hits really hard. So that was something I had to kind of get over initially.
00:22:36
Lindsay Franklin
Thank you.
00:22:39
Paul Regnier
um It's gotten a lot better. So yeah, I will say like, if you are, um that is something you can like build up, you can build up a thicker skin and and that's good. and I think it's healthy to be able to do that.
00:22:51
Paul Regnier
And um there's a lot of good ways you can do that. I'm trying to think like friends, family, critique groups, um when you meet other authors, they can kind of say like, oh, no, don't worry about that. Like everyone gets that and that comment they made doesn't even make sense or you know whatever it is.
00:23:08
Lindsay Franklin
who
00:23:08
Paul Regnier
um Or they could say like, well, you know maybe there's some validity to it, maybe not as negative as they're saying, but like, yeah, if you change this, which is why editing is so great beforehand, right?
00:23:20
Paul Regnier
An editor can catch all those things that might be critiqued and again, like prepare you to avoid those kinds of things.
00:23:25
Lindsay Franklin
right
00:23:27
Paul Regnier
but But yeah, I think, again, it's just something you build up over time. And then you just sort of become confident in your own style and your own work so that when you put it out there, you're just like, Yeah, all right, whatever. If you don't like it, you don't like it.
00:23:40
Paul Regnier
Maybe you're just not my audience. um Yeah, so.
00:23:45
Lindsay Franklin
I think reframing is really important, especially if you are kind of the overachiever type, which a lot of us were
Subjectivity in Writing
00:23:53
Lindsay Franklin
in school. A lot of people who, you know, grow up to become writers were kind of on that overachiever.
00:24:00
Lindsay Franklin
side of the the fence in school. And I think it's important to reframe and realize that when you are creating art, which is extremely subjective, therere there are the kind of objective mechanics of it, you know, with good writing when it comes to craft and like how
00:24:13
Paul Regnier
yeah
00:24:23
Lindsay Franklin
maybe even how we structure a story, although that's also not set in stone. So there's there's a lot that is fluid about it, a lot that is subjective, a lot that is a matter of opinion and style and trends and just all kinds of so many different things.
00:24:34
Paul Regnier
Yes. Oh man, I feel like we should have mentioned that first thing, we buried the lead. that is That's a really important point that we left out.
00:24:43
Lindsay Franklin
it's it It is like extremely subjective. And if you're in this this mindset where if I do it correctly,
00:24:52
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:24:52
Lindsay Franklin
correctly, then I'm going to get an A.
00:24:53
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:24:54
Lindsay Franklin
I'm going to get the five-star review.
00:24:56
Paul Regnier
um
00:24:56
Lindsay Franklin
The five stars, it's like an A. And and I even used that language when we were kind of joking about this, about the three-star being a C or something. I even, you can tell where my head is at with this, right?
00:25:08
Paul Regnier
wait Wait, wait, hold on. This is interesting. Were you an A student?
00:25:12
Lindsay Franklin
Maybe. Maybe. That is, it's, yes. Okay. I was.
00:25:16
Paul Regnier
You tried to be okay.
00:25:18
Lindsay Franklin
I did.
00:25:18
Paul Regnier
Okay.
00:25:18
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:25:18
Paul Regnier
That's funny because I wasn't, maybe that's why it's easier for me to just kind of shake it off or whatever.
00:25:20
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:25:23
Lindsay Franklin
Maybe.
00:25:26
Paul Regnier
So you're okay.
00:25:26
Lindsay Franklin
my goodness.
00:25:27
Paul Regnier
So you were an A student overachiever and I wasn't, I was happy with being B like skating through on a B and like, Hey, as long as I graduate, I'm good. You know, I just really, yeah, that's funny.
00:25:36
Lindsay Franklin
my husband. My husband, he's like super smart, capable dude, kind of like good pretty much everything. like he just walks into a room and he's just good at whatever he tries to do. It's really obnoxious. But um so he was like into sports and into music and into all these different things in school. But, you know, and ah when we met when we were teenagers and I'm looking at him going, you could be a straight A student. And he's like, meh.
00:26:03
Lindsay Franklin
I'm going, why? Why would you not go for the A plus? If you are capable of the A plus, why would you not go for it?
00:26:09
Paul Regnier
Because there's bigger things in life.
00:26:10
Lindsay Franklin
And he's just like, right? There's other stuff. He doesn't care.
00:26:14
Paul Regnier
Now, see, I think that that goes back to exactly what you're talking about.
00:26:15
Lindsay Franklin
ah
00:26:18
Paul Regnier
It's the subjectivity of it. When I was in high school, I hated it. And college. I didn't like college either, even though I graduated from both. I gritted my teeth all the way through because I thought it was so boring. like Most of it was so boring to me. And then I realized like that there was a large part of it, too, that was subjective, right?
00:26:37
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:26:38
Lindsay Franklin
Yep.
00:26:38
Paul Regnier
Grades, there was a yeah, like maybe if you're in physics and you get, or math and you get the answer wrong, that's a little more objective.
00:26:45
Lindsay Franklin
Sure.
00:26:46
Paul Regnier
But other things, there was a, I saw there was a subjectivity to it.
00:26:47
Lindsay Franklin
Sure.
00:26:51
Paul Regnier
And so I kind of, I guess over time, I just thought like, man, this is just kind of like a little bit of a game that I'm playing here and I can't wait to get out of here and do what I really want to do. Right?
00:27:03
Paul Regnier
so maybe So that was a part of it for me that, I don't know maybe you didn't like, because it sounds like you almost took it as like, this is objective truth.
00:27:03
Lindsay Franklin
The real world. Yeah.
00:27:11
Paul Regnier
If I get this A, that is objectively true that I am awesome or something, right?
00:27:17
Lindsay Franklin
Yes. I mean, yes. And so I.
00:27:19
Paul Regnier
Or I looked at it as the teacher's opinion. Yeah.
00:27:21
Lindsay Franklin
ah Right, right. And that was absolutely not the way I was framing it um at the time. And i was so I say I was an A student, which is true. I was a high performing student, but I also had undiagnosed ADHD my whole my whole life.
00:27:36
Paul Regnier
oh
00:27:38
Lindsay Franklin
But at the same time, I was very achievement motivated. And so what I did was I built for myself systems of, okay, this is what the system is.
00:27:49
Lindsay Franklin
This is how we succeed in this system. And so I'm going to build myself the supports that I need in order to achieve the goal.
00:27:57
Paul Regnier
Wow, that sounds like so much work.
00:27:58
Lindsay Franklin
That was... It was. i was exhausted. i had a mental breakdown in high school. That also happened. I wonder why. But yeah, we're just...
00:28:06
Paul Regnier
Lindsay, it's so much easier just to go, you know what? I don't care.
00:28:11
Lindsay Franklin
Man, I should have tried that.
00:28:16
Lindsay Franklin
Yes, I've gotten to a much better place with these things through my career in publishing.
00:28:21
Paul Regnier
OK, that's good.
00:28:22
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah, where because you can't be that way. You cannot be that way in publishing like you will constantly be having.
00:28:26
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:28:31
Lindsay Franklin
breakdowns and burnouts.
00:28:32
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:28:33
Lindsay Franklin
and But you know I am still at my core built the way I'm built, right? Like my personality is what it is. And so it's not that I've fundamentally changed who I am at my core.
00:28:40
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:28:44
Lindsay Franklin
It's building up those skills and kind of developing ah techniques and ways to think about things in a healthier way, process things in a healthier way. So that's why I use the word reframing where it's like,
00:28:57
Lindsay Franklin
So reframe. This is not a letter grade in school that you're getting. This is, you know, somebody's opinion about a piece of art that you created. And art is so subjective.
00:29:05
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:29:07
Lindsay Franklin
So if you feel solid, like you have put the skills in the skills in the time into developing your skills, that's what I'm trying to say, um then and you can stand by your work.
00:29:07
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:29:20
Lindsay Franklin
then it's good enough, period, period.
00:29:22
Paul Regnier
Yeah.
00:29:23
Lindsay Franklin
So it's um there's a lot of you know reframing and reprocessing that happens for me in order to be okay in this industry that does constantly throw criticism at you.
00:29:37
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:29:37
Lindsay Franklin
And at any given time, you could throw out a publishing benchmark. And I don't care how successful you are or how well you're doing. We could throw out a benchmark where every author in the room is going to go, oh, yep, I'm a failure at that thing.
00:29:52
Lindsay Franklin
you know Even if somebody is selling a bazillion copies and you could just say, okay, well, when when is the movie happening?
00:29:53
Paul Regnier
Sure.
00:29:59
Lindsay Franklin
And then everybody in the room is like, oh, well, yeah, I don't have a movie deal. you know So there is always like some bigger, better, shinier thing that we could be achieving in publishing. And so if you are achievement-oriented like I am, you really have to like – get out of outside of that hamster wheel, because that is, that is the way to madness is staying on that, that hamster wheel.
00:30:20
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:30:24
Lindsay Franklin
Um, you will constantly feel like a failure if you're caught in that kind of mindset. So.
00:30:29
Paul Regnier
And I think that when i when I first started joining critique groups, one of the things I i saw was like how different authors are really great at different things.
Diversity of Writing Skills
00:30:38
Paul Regnier
like No one is perfect at everything, you know unless maybe you're C.S.
00:30:38
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:30:42
Paul Regnier
Lewis or something. but like you know Because he could write philosophy, theology, fiction, you know hard science fiction, children's fantasy. It's like crazy.
00:30:53
Lindsay Franklin
He was pretty cool.
00:30:53
Paul Regnier
But you know aside from a few exceptions, um But like I remember like I would read someone's work and I would say, oh my gosh, their descriptions are so vivid and so like it's almost like poetry.
00:31:07
Paul Regnier
you know But then maybe their dialogue was a little stiff or something like that. And then you go to someone else and like, oh, their action scenes are crazy. You feel like you're right there. But then like the the you know the downtime scenes are kind of like they lag a little.
00:31:22
Paul Regnier
or whatever it is. You know what i mean?
00:31:23
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:31:24
Paul Regnier
There's so many different elements and you could critique anybody like on their weaknesses and just ignore their strengths. You know, so it kind of depends. And here's one other thing that's kind of important to realize. this is something I i found out.
00:31:38
Paul Regnier
um Some of the harshest ah critics, they don't create, they just critique.
00:31:44
Lindsay Franklin
Mm hmm.
00:31:46
Paul Regnier
So they love, they like, they've found their little thing that like, Ooh, cool. I'm a critic. I'm going to be real hard. But like, I found the more people actually are creators and they put stuff out, they develop a little more of a sympathetic, like understanding of, Oh my gosh, this is really hard to do this. Well,
00:32:05
Paul Regnier
Like I was being so unfairly critical on people before I started doing it realized how difficult it was, you know, to do this stuff.
00:32:06
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:32:15
Paul Regnier
I mean, even when you first start, like when I first started writing, I felt like, oh yeah, I've watched a ton of movies. I've read a bunch of books. You know I know story, like I could do this. Like, you know, and I'd be like, oh, that, that movie sucked. I could do way better.
00:32:27
Paul Regnier
And then you try it and you're like, okay, wow. They actually did pretty good with that. Like, I don't even know if I could,
00:32:33
Lindsay Franklin
This is hard.
00:32:34
Paul Regnier
I don't even know if I could suck. I'm not even that good. So it's right so I think i think there's there's an element there too.
00:32:39
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:32:41
Paul Regnier
you kind of have to be careful of the the critics you're listening to. like Is that really someone that knows, that understands like the art?
00:32:47
Lindsay Franklin
Mm-hmm.
00:32:51
Paul Regnier
Or do they just kind of... Because some people just have fun being snarky or mean or whatever it is, and that's just their thing. Like, oh, this is fun to tear something down.
00:33:02
Paul Regnier
And like, you have to realize that it might not be like, well, not, not might not be like, isn't accurate.
00:33:03
Lindsay Franklin
Right.
00:33:10
Paul Regnier
It's just like someone like having fun at your expense, I guess. So anyways, yeah, just another thought.
00:33:15
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
Harsh Critics vs. Constructive Feedback
00:33:18
Lindsay Franklin
Definitely, the ah there's certainly, i don't even want to say trolls. I almost said trolls, but it's not that. I think that it is this idea that there is an objective good and bad when it comes to story or storytelling.
00:33:29
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:33:33
Lindsay Franklin
And you know as we said before, there are some objective measures like in craft or in ah you know the mechanics of writing.
00:33:39
Paul Regnier
Sure.
00:33:42
Lindsay Franklin
There are certain things that are you know right and wrong.
00:33:42
Paul Regnier
Yeah. A typo is a typo, right?
00:33:46
Lindsay Franklin
typo is a typo. Exactly. Bad grammar is bad grammar. um But, you know, unclear writing is unclear writing.
00:33:49
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:33:52
Lindsay Franklin
Like there are certainly some measures that are objective.
00:33:53
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm.
00:33:55
Lindsay Franklin
But I think sometimes as readers and even as writers who are maybe in the earlier stages of their journey, I have found can be really harsh critics unintentionally because they have like a little bit of knowledge of the behind the scenes where they're learning about the architecture of story and they're learning about the the mechanics and the behind the scenes stuff.
00:34:06
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:11
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:20
Lindsay Franklin
And so they're feeling like they do have a window in. And, oh, I could do this better is there's a little bit of that, you know, that thinking still.
00:34:26
Paul Regnier
a
00:34:29
Lindsay Franklin
And and it may be true, honestly, may be true. Maybe you could have written in my book better than I did. That is always ah possibility. but But there is just so much more to it, I think, than people realize when they are either not a creator or in the very early stages of their own journey.
00:34:50
Lindsay Franklin
um It's not a It's not an objective right or wrong issue. There are just, there's style, there's voice. There are a lot of choices that are made and there are reasons why.
00:35:01
Lindsay Franklin
we as creators make the choices that we make and you as a creator may have made a different choice and that's okay. Both of those options are okay to do.
00:35:08
Paul Regnier
Right.
00:35:09
Lindsay Franklin
There is no right or wrong. And it is also okay if you as the reader do not vibe with the choices that I made. that That's cool. That's okay. And you are free to two-star me on Amazon.
00:35:21
Lindsay Franklin
Okay. I'm going to say it. You are free to one-star me on Amazon. i
00:35:25
Paul Regnier
Oh, bold statement.
00:35:26
Lindsay Franklin
like got there.
00:35:27
Paul Regnier
Wow.
00:35:27
Lindsay Franklin
Oh, okay. I'm feeling flushed now.
00:35:29
Paul Regnier
Now people are just going to accept your dare. You shouldn't have done that.
00:35:33
Lindsay Franklin
No, don't one-star me. Guys, I can't take it.
00:35:34
Paul Regnier
Don't do it.
00:35:35
Lindsay Franklin
I'll cry.
00:35:35
Paul Regnier
Don't do it.
00:35:35
Lindsay Franklin
I'll cry.
00:35:36
Paul Regnier
She was just speaking off the cuff.
00:35:37
Lindsay Franklin
No, it's...
00:35:38
Paul Regnier
Don't do it. um
00:35:40
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah.
00:35:40
Paul Regnier
So, yeah.
Privilege of Publishing
00:35:42
Paul Regnier
um So our time is running out. So I'll just think of like some final thoughts here.
00:35:45
Lindsay Franklin
It is.
00:35:46
Paul Regnier
I would say like... um Gosh, really, and one of the most important things that I find that that helps me with this is just the realization that um how awesome it is to be able to even write and publish.
00:36:04
Paul Regnier
Like the fact that I can even indie publish and there's no longer, I think, what was it, just like maybe 20 years ago where it was like the big five publishers and you had to go through all these gatekeepers just to get published.
00:36:15
Lindsay Franklin
you
00:36:15
Paul Regnier
Like we live in this amazing time where like anyone can publish their books, you know. um Now that might increase the competition. So, you know, there's give and take with everything. But um just the ability to be able to do that.
00:36:29
Paul Regnier
and And if you're a creative person and if you're a storyteller and you have that wonderful ability to do that with computers and Amazon and the Internet and just all these amazing tools we have at our disposal, you like I think all the positives should just sort of safeguard you because you get to explore your gift, you get to present your gift to the world. and you know Again, while it's not going to please everybody, you can please some people and really lift them up and encourage them and inspire them. and
00:37:03
Paul Regnier
That's like a huge gift to be able to do that. like That's amazing. um so yeah i i would say just maybe focus on like the gifts you have at your disposal and the the time in which you live in which you are able to pursue those gifts you know back in the day what like oh i want to be a writer son go tend the farm you know go feed the hogs that's what we have to do today and every day for the rest of your life Right?
00:37:28
Paul Regnier
I mean, so it's like, because we need to eat bacon.
00:37:29
Lindsay Franklin
Because we need to eat. Yes.
00:37:32
Paul Regnier
um But yeah, like, so this is awesome, like that we even have this. So I think the joy of it should sort of counterbalance any negatives that we we receive. And it should, we just should just should be able to like, just kind of shake all that stuff off and go, you know what? I get to publish books.
00:37:50
Paul Regnier
This is awesome. This is so cool that I get to do this. This day day and age that I live in, that I can do this. um So I don't know, just like, I guess, count your blessings. Is that what I'm saying in a nutshell?
00:38:02
Lindsay Franklin
Yeah, I think it's having a mindset of gratitude. And this is something that I say to my readers a lot, usually right after launch time, because I'm feeling introspective and philosophical at those moments, because it's like just launched a book and got through all of that, that big marketing push and all the things and it's out there in the world and readers finally get to read it.
Gratitude for Storytelling
00:38:24
Lindsay Franklin
And something that I say a lot at that stage is like, thank you for being here.
00:38:29
Lindsay Franklin
it is a privilege to tell you stories.
00:38:30
Paul Regnier
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:38:32
Lindsay Franklin
It's a privilege that I get to share my weird little imagination with you. Like, i i think I've said previously, i did not even think about telling stories as a real job when I was a kid. Even though I was a born storyteller, I've been doing it my entire life, writing stories on scraps of paper since I was a little kid. It did not occur to me that this was a real job.
00:38:57
Lindsay Franklin
And the fact that I get to work in this industry and that I get to share that weird imagination that I've had since I was a little kid with other people and that there is anyone out there, let alone several anyone's who who does vibe with it.
00:39:14
Lindsay Franklin
Like that is, that blows my mind. And it is a huge, huge privilege to be able to do that and to use the gifts that gave us.
00:39:17
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:39:20
Paul Regnier
Yep.
00:39:24
Lindsay Franklin
gave us to be able to reach people.
00:39:27
Paul Regnier
Well said.
00:39:28
Lindsay Franklin
It's awesome.
00:39:29
Paul Regnier
Well said.
Conclusion and Thanks
00:39:30
Paul Regnier
Okay. I can't add anything to that. That that just sums it up perfectly. Well, thank you everyone for listening. We hope this episode has been helpful and encouraging to you and we will see you next time.
00:39:43
Lindsay Franklin
Bye.