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IMTX Recap with Miranda Tomenson and Nerd Notes on Bike Tech
822 Plays24 days ago
Michael and Andrew welcome professional triathlete and coach Miranda Tomenson to the podcast. Miranda shares her experience prepping for and racing the IM NA Championship in the Woodlands TX, Texas, a notoriously challenging race for athletes just shaking off winter.
Following that chat, Michael and Andrew discuss their observations from the race expo and course, focusing on bike technology trends and an interesting calculation related to performance in the heat.
- Miranda's heat prep in training, including the construction of a makeshift heat chamber using a portable greenhouse around her indoor trainer.
- On race day, she encountered gastrointestinal issues during the run, which impacted her calorie absorption and ability to maintain pace.
- Miranda utilized the "Cool Bottle" during the bike segment, reporting that it helped provide cooling through contact points and the wet sleeve, in addition to its large fluid capacity.
- Michael and Andrew observed trends in bike technology at the event, including the prevalence of integrated and custom front-end cockpits on high-end bikes and the design of the new Ventum Tempus bike.
- Discussion on helmet design trends notes wider frontal profiles intended to integrate with the rider's shoulders and improve aerodynamics.
- Andrew presents a calculation showing that the difference in air density between 20°C and 30°C can equate to a power difference of approximately 8 watts at 40 km/h, potentially saving around three and a half minutes over an Ironman bike course.
- The episode concludes with a brief interview segment featuring professional triathlete Lauren Brandon, a veteran of Ironman Texas.
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts' Banter
00:00:00
Speaker
That's how we were making each other feel better when we were eating Texas barbecue, Andrew. We're just getting more aerodynamic. Exactly. We were working on aerodynamics. That was say it was a, it was a performance enhancing dinner.
00:00:12
Speaker
Yes.
00:00:19
Speaker
Hi everyone.
Podcast Introduction
00:00:20
Speaker
I'm Andrew. And I'm Michael. And you're listening to the Endurance Innovation Podcast.
00:00:38
Speaker
Hey folks, and welcome back to Endurance Innovation. We haven't been on the air in a little while. That's because we've been busy, you know, doing all things bottle and all things other life.
Ironman Championship Experience
00:00:50
Speaker
And one of those things that sort of coincided with the promoting the but the the cool bottle and helping out some of the folks that to we've come to know and like in the in the past few months is Andrew and I had headed down to the Ironman North American Championship in Texas and had a really great time, enjoyed the warmth.
00:01:12
Speaker
and the ah the party race atmosphere and came away with a lot ah a lot of knowledge and a lot of you know a lot of things that we're going to be putting to use. um So we do want to talk to you about that. So Andrew and I are here and we we will cover some of the things that we saw in
Guest Introduction: Miranda Tomlinson
00:01:29
Speaker
Texas. ah But before we do that, I would like to welcome our friend Miranda Tomlinson, who I've known for a number of years. She's a fellow coach in to Toronto.
00:01:41
Speaker
and She's also a registered massage therapist, also a professional triathlete, wears a lot of hats, I think. So, Miranda, thank you so much for taking the time and welcome to Endurance Innovation.
00:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much for inviting me to talk about my experience in Texas on the podcast. It's a real treat. I listen to a lot of your speakers in almost every episode, I think. so Awesome. Awesome.
00:02:09
Speaker
It's not often we get dedicated fans like this. Well, am one. This is your this is your like long-time first-time moment then. Yes, it is. Do people still say that?
00:02:21
Speaker
I feel like that's call-in radio shows have kind of gone by the wayside. That's okay. I'm sure enough of our listeners will know what I'm talking about.
Race Challenges and Evolution
00:02:29
Speaker
So Miranda, we want to start with your your thinking around ah race selection, right? So, and the reason I want to talk about this is, of course, you know, Texas just happened. It's the last weekend of April.
00:02:43
Speaker
Texas is almost always ah very warm race. We live in a fairly cold climate, especially over the winter months and early spring months, ah which obviously creates some challenges. So why Texas? So ah in Cozumel in November, which was my last attempt at Ironman, didn't finish.
00:03:02
Speaker
So, um you know, and I i don't know why. ah Ultimately, just a lot of things physiologically didn't feel right. So I stopped before I would do any damage to my body. But that was kind of the fuel for registering for the next possible Ironman that I could, ah like sort of logistically. And that was Texas. So I knew it was going to be hot.
00:03:29
Speaker
But, you know, I've never done really well in the heat. So this is a new challenge.
Triathlon Advancements and Nutrition
00:03:34
Speaker
And i really just didn't want to carry on that DNF on my very last race. I wanted to I don't particularly like the Ironman distance, but I couldn't retire from Ironman distance with the DNF as my last race. So this would be an opportunity to sort of redeem my myself and my mind.
00:03:54
Speaker
So that's why Texas. So you're kind of burying the lead a little bit. So last Ironman race, what's what's what's that all about? Well, I don't know. But after Cosmo, I said to my parents, I'm never doing another Ironman.
00:04:07
Speaker
Mostly because I've never been able to race an Ironman. So I feel like anything shorter from, you know, gun to finish line, i can go my hardest for the duration. It's not a survival.
00:04:19
Speaker
Not all races are like that, but I can do that in a half Ironman. And I've never been able to really race an Ironman. It's just like, a okay, I have to survive Ironman.
00:04:31
Speaker
um And I don't like that feeling. Um, it seemed like, I don't know, maybe five, 10 years ago, um there wasn't the same pace in the 70.3 races. People weren't pushing quite as hard.
00:04:42
Speaker
And, uh, as the sport evolved and as the training improved, I think it's gotten to the point where 70.3, um, is, is extremely hard of a push for everyone who's involved. Mm-hmm. And i would say in the last couple years, that effort and that level of commitment has moved up to Ironman as well.
00:05:00
Speaker
ah When you look at some of the performances at Texas, I mean, two course record, well, multiple course records falling in different different ways. So it's it's incredible how far people are able to push their bodies now. And I'm not sure whether it's training. I'm not sure if it's just more people involved in the sport. So you happen to get more outliers in terms of physiological performance, but it's, it's really interesting and probably, you know, a little bit frustrating from a pro standpoint, seeing the, the, the game kind of level up like that.
00:05:31
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I mean, the equipment, there's probably almost all pros get arrow testing done outside, um which I've never had. i think the nutrition game has really stepped up.
00:05:43
Speaker
um So, you know, yeah you have to be able to absorb the nutrition and that's been my problem. ah and And just advances in technology and and resources too. Pro triathletes now are making more money at the top level than they ever have before. So um that really can help an athlete up their game a little bit. So I would definitely agree with you that but the pointy end of the of the pro triathlon racing is is very, very good.
00:06:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think from my from my understanding, the the nutrition is probably the biggest piece from kind of, you know, talking to the the coaches and the sports scientists at the top of the field. Like that's that's the thing. Yes, there are aero gains. Yes, there are, you know, other, you know, training, maybe interventions. There's better understanding of heat training, of course, in which we'll definitely talk about.
00:06:35
Speaker
But I think the big game changer, as you say, Miranda, is nutrition. It's like, because if you think about, you know, how and it's not that long ago that 90 grams per hour was thought to be a limiter.
00:06:46
Speaker
And now it's 120, 140. And, and at the, for Joe's like me in an Ironman, I don't need 120 grams per hour. Cause I'm not, I cannot, the kind of, and the kind of intensity I need to hold in order to use that much is unsustainable over that, over that distance for me. But for, for the fast, you know, men and women,
00:07:09
Speaker
100% you are actually like consuming the number of the number of like kilojoules where that becomes a game changer. So that I think, yeah, I think that's probably the biggest, the biggest change we've seen in the last, don't know, five years, maybe even like two years, even more so. Yeah.
00:07:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Very cool.
Miranda's Preparation and Heat Training
00:07:28
Speaker
Okay. So um ah maybe I'm making things a little bit hyperbolic here when I say this is maybe a redemption race for Miranda.
00:07:36
Speaker
after it was. It was. Okay. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Good. So redemption race for you. um And ah how did you go about prepping for it? Because, you know, as I said in the in the intro, Toronto is famously not hot over winter.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah. um So I purchased a, I guess it was about $150 portable greenhouse. It's about six feet long, maybe I think four feet wide and six feet high.
00:08:06
Speaker
And I put it on my bike. And I almost immediately started using it when I started my training. And ah along this time, I had a call with a nutrition expert, a dietician from Precision Fuel and Hydration, who gave me some guidelines about what I should be targeting.
00:08:26
Speaker
In addition from the information that I i had heard from Tara Posnickoff from Heal, I put together various nutrition plans that I wanted to test in this in this heat chamber.
00:08:38
Speaker
um And I started, I eased into it. And then I think my, yeah, my first three hour ride at around like low zone two, zone one,
00:08:50
Speaker
by power, my heart rate in the final 30 minutes was like near max. It was like 165 and ceiling was about 180 on the bike. um And I was going off this like, okay, I have to drink 1.5 liters an hour and have 1.5 grams of sodium per hour.
00:09:06
Speaker
on And that was a bit of a disaster. But it brought back a lot of those feelings of like your gut shutting down, not able to absorb anything.
00:09:18
Speaker
vomit like that was my I probably started a bit too extreme um and uh but I got a lot of information at that and I was happy that I could recreate some of the feelings that I felt in Cozumel in my own because then I could work to tackle those those feelings Um, anyway, so I would do probably one longer, ah like ride every, probably about every 10 days in in the heat tent. And then I would, you try to finish off with say 30 minutes, uh, at the end of ah lot of, at least two other rides a week, um, in the heat tent or 20 minutes.
00:09:52
Speaker
I did all my, aerobic threshold rides are lower without a fan so if i was targeting iron man power i wouldn't necessarily do it at the heat tent oh that the heat tent was about 38 degrees i was gonna ask yeah like you like how warm did it get that's very warm so probably quite humid if it's a sealed area with you know what i don't know how much you can trust those things but it was like 20 humidity which surprised me I thought it would be a lot higher. I thought about making it more humid.
00:10:22
Speaker
But when I looked at the Texas humidity, it was around the same. So I thought, okay, I'm just going to leave it. But Andrew, isn't it the hotter you get, the heart the harder it is to get higher relative humidity? Yeah, yeah so the air can hold a lot more water. um So the it if you have the same fixed amount of air, okay, this is a nerd break here, but if you have the the same fixed amount of air um and you bring it down to its dew point, the dew point is at, by definition, 100% humidity.
00:10:53
Speaker
If you increase the temperature, and that's when you would get condensation forming on on the surfaces. But if you bring up the temperature after that, you can retain that water. You can retain more water in the air and the higher you go with temperature. So the relative humidity goes down, but the absolute humidity, the amount of grams of water per kilogram of air, um that stays the same.
00:11:14
Speaker
So that's my quick aside. just Do we need a stoichiometry warning next time? I know. I was doing some molarity work with my stepson just before this. So this is all kind of, okay, it's making some sense to me.
00:11:27
Speaker
and Grade 11 chemistry comes in handy. the Andrew's busting out kind of like, you know, third mechanical engineering. Yeah, not not something that's relevant for, I would say, 99.9% of the people out there.
00:11:40
Speaker
But that 0.1. You do use chemistry a lot in in triathlon. Yeah. But anyways, you won't go there. So speaking of chemistry, um loosely chemistry, one one question I do have, and one thing I've wondered, and i just want to put this out there is kind of a discussion point, but you're in this heat tent and you're consuming a lot of oxygen. So what happens to the level of oxygen?
00:12:04
Speaker
there There is a window on it. So I'm like right by my head. So I'm breathing in. Like, like it's not, uh, it's not, sorry, there's vent, there is venting in the heat tent, but it's hard to.
00:12:17
Speaker
I have wondered in closed room, um, if you're exercising for three hours in a closed room and you don't have, you know, your, your furnace on or something like that, I have wondered how much oxygen yeah you consume. Cause it's probably not a trivial amount.
00:12:32
Speaker
I mean, the room is open. So to the whole house, um, but I'm, yeah, I'm not I'm not sure. Well, in a totally sealed chamber, this would be a really easy math, right? Because you can do, you can back calculate from, from power. You can, you know, cause, okay, here we go. another neron here We're totally getting off into, but yeah I am breathing in like there, there's um kind of a mesh that is allowing a gas exchange in and out of the tent.
00:13:00
Speaker
um I did try to close it off once and that was a very bad idea. So yeah I left it open it and the thermometer was right where my head was. So I figured it would be approximately, um even if there were I was losing some heat to the this window, um it would be approximately the temperature of the tent.
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah. there's There's two things I love about this. It's just like and our, our i don't know if desire is the right word, but like willingness to abuse ourselves in the in the pursuit of this. Like how insane is it? I mean, I totally understand why you're doing this, Miranda. And i i know I don't know if I would do it, but I think it's a good idea.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yeah. i Yeah, I got a lot of information about like consistently my sweat loss was about 750 mils per hour in that that that range of temperatures. So I knew, okay, I'm not losing a liter of water per hour. I'm losing this on the bike anyways and in this area.
00:13:54
Speaker
in these conditions. So I got that information. So um and then I got to play around a lot with volume. um So 1.5 liters was way too much for me. If you're losing, if you're losing only 750 milliliters, 1.5 sounds excessive.
00:14:09
Speaker
Right. And the idea was when I talked to someone about this was, you know, if you take the salt with it you'll retain a little bit of water and that will help you on the run. um So at least from my understanding, ah but it just made me feel very, yeah, it just wasn't, it didn't work for me. And I think I had to would have had to ease myself into it, but I sort of found my, my, I felt my best when I was about 800 of water and about 800 mgs of sodium per hour.
00:14:41
Speaker
um So about one gram per liter. That's when I felt my best coming off the bike. um And I did that. And when I got to my five hour ride in the heat tent at again, lower power, that was kind of what had me feeling the best, but it wasn't perfect. I would still get off the bike, start my run and the run i would I wouldn't be in a heat tent. I would just put a toucan and then a full jacket so that I could continue to sweat on the treadmill.
00:15:10
Speaker
um And I would only run for maybe 30 minutes because I didn't want to and didn't want to race my race in training. and Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Heat Adaptation and Race Strategy
00:15:20
Speaker
So I think I struggled. So I think the bike prep was great.
00:15:24
Speaker
um I think if I were to do it again, i would experiment with maybe a little bit more salt. um During Ironman, I followed that exact same protocol, but I peed three times. So that to me think leads me to believe that perhaps I was taking on too much water. Again, I'm not sure.
00:15:42
Speaker
Um, but I would, I would experiment a little bit with a bit more salt to see if that helped my stomach. Once I settled on the volume of water, I just didn't have enough time to experiment, even though you'd think from December April would give me enough time. if it wasn't.
00:15:58
Speaker
Um, and then I bought some stuff to make a heat chamber around my, rut my, my treadmills. Already, yeah Already. Nice. I need to get to the bottom of this. one One really interesting thing with all this is you mentioned experimenting.
00:16:14
Speaker
And normally with with something like an Ironman, the experimentation happens during the race for a lot of people because they don't go through this in training. And the experimentation often leads to disaster unless you're perfectly prepared and really understand your body.
00:16:29
Speaker
So the fact that you were able to go through a number of iterations and at worst you lose a long ride as opposed to losing out on a race that you've spent months training for. Um, yeah you know, it's, it's relatively low, um low loss for, for something like that. So I think just the ability to go through iterations and the ability to test and to dial in is such a huge thing. And for something, you know, as simple as just a greenhouse that you put around your bike, like that's, uh, it's not super high tech, um, but it does a really good job.
00:17:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that that was, useful um at the very least for simulating what I would eventually feel on the run in Texas. I had felt that in training and I knew exactly what I needed to do to get through it Well, the other thing you need is those those heat lamps like they use at McDonald's to keep the patties warm for three days. so Just imagine you're a big man. I tried to, um when I tried to use the heater and the treadmill at the same time, I would blow a fuse but for some reason. That's a lot of power. That's the universe telling you to like chi chill out
00:17:34
Speaker
In our house, all the basement outlets are attached to the same breaker. So if I wanted to use the heater and I'll have to do this, I'll have to run an extension cord from a different breaker outlet. to heat but I the trend for the so for the treadmill what I bought was like some poles um that you would typically use to make like I don't know us a room separation and clear shower curtains so I can put that around my treadmill and then possibly put a plastic sheet on top of this contraption um and put it around the treadmill so we'll see how that goes
00:18:12
Speaker
But at least now we're we're getting warm. So you could just go the old school method of running at, you know, one ah one in the afternoon. Are we? Are we really getting warm? It's true. It was like 22 degrees two days ago. And then now it's like five degrees again.
00:18:28
Speaker
I don't know that I can bank on Mother Nature to provide the heat needed for my next race in Eagleman. Yeah, it's a fend for yourself situation. Nice. Well, i would one thing one thing i do want to say is that even with really good heat prep, you're it's still going to be harder in the heat.
00:18:48
Speaker
but Like it's still going to, you're still going to race a lot better. And I'm sure I'm not saying anything that everybody listening doesn't already know. You're going to race faster if it's cooler, right? that Even if you're well adapted, even if, you know, the heat shock proteins and the blood plasma and all that good stuff is there, yeah you're still, you're still not going to perform to the same level.
00:19:06
Speaker
A hundred percent. And I, I, I think that, and comparison is the best way to do this, but when I look at the people like in a half Ironman, for example, where I might be, you know, five or seven minutes back of the leader, the winner, maybe 10 sometimes.
00:19:21
Speaker
um And then in this race, I was 45 minutes back of the leader. So, you know, if I just don't think that the gap should be that much. a So I'm wondering, okay, what are what are these top athletes doing that I'm not doing to prepare for the heat?
00:19:37
Speaker
um and And so, yeah, I think I want to do everything I can to i get better. And I definitely felt really good on the bike.
00:19:47
Speaker
um ah Like my heart rate was about 10 beats lower than normal than any of my other Ironmans. And my power was probably 10 watts lower, but I would have expected to have to hold a much lower power to to be able to get my heart rate that low.
00:20:04
Speaker
So there was definitely, and probably the cool bottle. and helped because I was able to keep, like I was able to use that to keep to keep cool because there was really cold water at the aid station. So um anyway, so there was definitely some improvements from this protocol of the bike, but I've always needed really specific training for it to translate over to the race.
00:20:26
Speaker
um i've ah A lot of people I coach, they can just do like VO2 and they'll be great on race day. and But I tend to need a lot of like race specific power race-specific stimulus to to perform well on race day. So it somewhat doesn't surprise me that to be good in the heat, in the run portion of a race, I need to do specific run training.
00:20:50
Speaker
um And for Cozumel, I mostly just use the sauna. Like I did that sauna protocol where you sit in the sauna after your hard sessions. After training, yeah. And that did... that didn't Even though i know the research is there, it didn't do anything for me. It just...
00:21:07
Speaker
Well, it didn't feel like it did anyway. Interesting. Yeah, that's really that's really interesting. And that that goes to show that, you know, despite of all ah all the the research, to your point, there's there's so much, you know, we are very similar, but we're also different.
00:21:21
Speaker
yeah You need that specificity. Very cool. yeah Okay. So, um, well, for a minor detour here, thank you very much for, for mentioning the, the cool bottle and I intentionally buried the lead on that one.
00:21:33
Speaker
So, um, Miranda was, uh, our, uh, our first in race tester of the cool bottle. So we're super grateful to you for that. Uh, thank you very much.
00:21:44
Speaker
And we will talk about it maybe when we're talking about the the bike portion of the race. And I know you did some like interesting ah you know yeah interesting use cases for it with the with some of the stashing that you did, but but i' I'll let
Miranda's Race Day Experience
00:21:58
Speaker
you talk about it. Pockets salt tablets. Pockets for salt tablets, yeah. And writing a note to yourself on it too.
00:22:05
Speaker
Oh, yes, yes. Yeah, we're we're we're too keen to talk about it. But let's um um let's ah let's wrap up the training piece. So you you did a bunch of heat training. You also did a a camp, I think, right, in ah in the Woodlands?
00:22:21
Speaker
Yes. So a few weeks before, i went down to Texas to do some training on the course. Again, i do really well when I'm comfortable in a place, um probably more emotionally than than physically. But I wanted to get comfortable with the – the place that I would be racing, um, and also get some more heat adaptation. adaptation Um, unfortunately the temperatures, it was, it rained pretty much every day was windy and it was 30 degrees, but it was overcast.
00:22:50
Speaker
Um, and I find that the heat is way worse than the sun. Yes. Uh, for me historically um which i think i think for everybody uh so i didn't necessarily get the heat adaptation down there um that i was looking for but uh i got a lot of sort of location acclimation if that makes sense um and then i did follow a heat protocol when i got back which before i was probably doing like as i said like oh like loose heat acclimation other than the long rides uh when i got back it was i think it was three days heat one day off
00:23:27
Speaker
three days heat, but a little bit more, more, um, one day off. And I also did two, three hour heat rides in that period. So I, I think I upped the heat acclimation during my, my taper, I guess.
00:23:40
Speaker
And when you say heat, like you were you're training in the heat, you mean? Oh, no, did doing, using my tent. When I got back, cause I was in Texas for a week and then I came back to Toronto and then I used the heat tent. you're You're riding in the heat tent, right? It's not like a sauna. Yeah. Okay.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Right. Sorry. Cool. Very cool. Okay. So let's, ah let's fast forward to, to race day, um look you know, kind of take us take us through your prep and, and let's, let's go through the, you know, the traditional disciplines.
00:24:12
Speaker
Yeah, so the swim, I find the pro swim very, I guess, yeah, we'll start with the swim. We don't need to talk too much about prep. I did do some carb loading, some salt loading, some making sure I was hydrated. I think I did that pretty well.
00:24:27
Speaker
I had a friend with me who made sure to remind me to drink. So let's go back to the swim. So um I ah must start on the sides in a swim.
00:24:39
Speaker
um I learned that last year that I got trampled by people if I started anywhere near the middle. So I always try to take the far edge. um And this time I ended up lining up beside one of the fastest swimmers in the sport, Steph Clutterbuck.
00:24:53
Speaker
Yeah. I didn't stay on her feet for very long, but I did have open water. So I had a stress-free swim. I was on someone's feet, maybe Alice Alberts, but I felt like if I tried to pass them, i wasn't going to. So I just sort of chilled.
00:25:11
Speaker
I was pretty bored during the swim, to be honest. yeah um It's sort of just like, okay, I'm here. a And then, you know, it was my first open water swim in a long time. So the usual, like my back,
00:25:24
Speaker
was a bit sore, my bicep cramped, just normal stuff. um But overall happy with the swim. Yeah, you were in a group of three when we saw you. We saw you kind of probably 150, 200 meters from the finish, like right in the in the last little channel. And yeah, you were slotted in the middle nicely with a group of three. Yeah.
00:25:42
Speaker
And just like a minute back from the eventual winner. So yeah that's ego boosting, I guess. That's right. You didn't give even give up much on the swim. No, I didn't. Then onto the bike, my plan was take the first minutes or the first 30 minutes really easy because in Cozumel, I tried to stay with a group I was out of the water with ah thinking, cause you know, it feels so easy at the start of the race. I was, I purposely held back and I said, nope, they're going to pay for it later on. I don't know if that's true, but I stuck to my like 150 watts.
00:26:15
Speaker
for the first 30 minutes. Um, and then when we go on the toll tollway, uh, Tamara went by me who is is a faster rider, but I was like, okay, let's see, let's see what I can do. If I, if I stay, you know, legally, can I work with her?
00:26:32
Speaker
And, um, and see what happens. And plus that's a headwind section. So I felt if I can stay with her and not go too hard, then this will be really beneficial for my overall race performance.
00:26:44
Speaker
um her Her race ranger lights weren't working. So I had to kind of guess. um And It was like, is i i wasn't, i had no idea whether I was too close or too far.
00:26:56
Speaker
So Miranda, I'm sorry, I'm going to interrupt you just for a second. Most of our listeners probably know what, no, no just of a little context, probably know what race ranger is and how it works, but maybe not most of them. So can you explain? Right.
00:27:09
Speaker
Yes. So race ranger um in Ironman, you can legally draft if you're 12 meters back or more. If you're within 12 meters, it's illegally drafting. So um basically these race ranger lights will turn red if you're within 12 meters and then yellow if you're 12 to 14 meters.
00:27:27
Speaker
And then I might be getting it wrong, but the other one is blue. um It might be blue. 12 to 14 meters and then yellow if you're say 14 to 16 meters and no color if you're further back.
00:27:40
Speaker
um So you do get a benefit if you're riding with someone, um you know, legally, obviously. Sure. And folks, these devices are on are on bikes, or on the on the pro bikes. These are like, they're like little disc shaped things. We actually had Race Ranger on When they first launched, i don't know, three years ago, four years ago, ah we had them on the show. And so they described their product, which was super cool. And now it's all over the place.
00:28:04
Speaker
So, yeah, listeners, just so you know, there's ah there's a little ah there's a little device on them on the chainstay of a bike that that the following rider can see the lights on. And that's what I think, Miranda, that's what you're talking about.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yes. yeah um And it's actually really beneficial if you're trying to ride with someone because you know exactly where you are and you're not constantly worrying, am I too close? Am I too far? Where am i um So for a weaker cyclist like myself, it's very beneficial.
00:28:35
Speaker
um so it was frustrating that I couldn't use these lights to gauge my distance from Tamara. And the last thing I wanted was to get a penalty. So um I stayed with her for a while, but then...
00:28:48
Speaker
uh near the turnaround point i noticed that my heart rate was getting a little bit too high and i was like okay i'm gonna have a tailwind on the way back so i'm just gonna i'm just gonna let her go and um ah but i think i got a good benefit from having someone to ride with during that part of the course um and then yeah yeah the rest of the ride was pretty uneventful um i stayed within my my power targets uh And the the thing that was odd was that I really had to pee early on in the bike.
00:29:20
Speaker
um And then I think I peed like two or three times and I came into transition with a full bladder. So that was the reasoning behind maybe I needed more salt to balance out the water intake. I'm still not sure.
00:29:34
Speaker
But anyways. Or maybe there was just too much water, right? Like there was... ah That's awesome. Yeah, i've been I've been hearing a little bit more on that front. I know like there's the whole Tim Noakes side of things where it's like, yeah, you just, everyone drinks too much.
00:29:47
Speaker
um But I think it is possible to do it. Especially if your sweat rate's not that not crazy high. If you're like 750 milliliters, which is not very high. Yeah. and um And the other thing too is that it wasn't until the like last hour of the ride that the temperatures really got super hot. Like we were low twenties for a good portion of that ride.
00:30:09
Speaker
So, um, again, it's, it's so hard to simulate what's going to happen in race day in training, but yeah, I did my best and I'm very happy with the way that the ride went.
00:30:21
Speaker
Um, Yeah, i I have no complaints. I felt really within myself for the first time finishing an Ironman bike. What's frustrating for me is that it didn't, my holding back on the bike didn't seem to pan out too much on the run. I mean, maybe maybe it did.
00:30:38
Speaker
um But I still had my ah had still had some stomach issues that hit. So on to the run. Yeah. Well, before we do, I just, I do want to like just circle back to, you know, to the cool bottle. um So you, you ran with it or you rode with it, I suppose running with it would be awkward.
00:30:58
Speaker
You rode with it in in, Texas. And as I mentioned, you were kind of our our first full on field test. um Can you just share a couple of impressions? ah Like, you know, honestly, what you, what you thought about it, having on the bike?
00:31:12
Speaker
We haven't heard this yet. So if it's bad, then this is what we're still going to hear. Listeners, I promise not to edit it out. it's going to be, um it's going to be accurate. So the only thing that was, ah so starting with just the, it was difficult to freeze it because my hotel didn't have a freezer.
00:31:29
Speaker
So I went to the hotel lobby and got a bunch of ice pellets, but ice chips melt pretty quickly. um So I wasn't sure about that part. So that would be the only thing that difficult is if you are planning on use it just I would say it would probably work better with the frozen with frozen in the bottom um I'm not sure I haven't I haven't tested it and that being said it was still cold and there was still ice in there when I got on the bike so um the sleeve sleeve worked well.
00:32:01
Speaker
And um so there were two methods in which it cooled me. So ah the contact points on the arm forearms. And then when I would refill the bottle at aid stations, there would be some water that would splash along the silicone sleeve and that would get really wet.
00:32:15
Speaker
So that was also cooling in itself because it it seemed cool to touch. um from the water. So, um and yeah, so again, it's, it's hard to tell because I can't compare it to yeah myself if I didn't have the cool bottle.
00:32:30
Speaker
um But all I can say is that, yeah, it it it was, a it was effective in those two ways and that I did it because I was getting cold water from the aid stations. I could get that that transfer to my forearms and the liquid still tasted cold.
00:32:45
Speaker
I had the cooling from the from the outer sleeve. um So all in all, I would not go back.
00:32:53
Speaker
So don't take the bottle away from me. um And I will be using it. You tattooed the cozy anyway, so you're good. it's you yeah yeah mores now Oh, and the other thing is that it just holds so much fluid.
00:33:08
Speaker
So um I got a ah few Instagram messages saying, oh, I just, I need something that holds more fluid. So yeah. Even if you're doing a cold race and you want something, like it's hard sometimes to grab water from aid stations because your hands are cold or or whatever reason.
00:33:24
Speaker
um Just the fact that it holds so much fluid up front is really helpful. So yeah, um I didn't notice any. Oh, I think I mentioned it rattled a little bit on some of the bumpier sections.
00:33:37
Speaker
yeah But that was, you know, any water bottle is going to rattle. For sure. I think I first noticed I went over a pothole and you're like specifically in tune to your bike after you go over a pothole. Please don't break.
00:33:48
Speaker
Yeah. You're listening for the cracks. Yeah. I thought it was my front wheel that was rattling at first. And i was like, oh my goodness. But I'm like, yeah i my bike's it's not flat. Like I was distracted for a minute. And then I like just held the bottle down and it went away. And I'm like, oh, okay. not this is This is fine. Yeah.
00:34:05
Speaker
Yeah, it is. It is a little bit depending on how it's mounted. It is a little bit cantilevered, of course. And if it's really close to your um I have this on my setup as well. If it's really close to your bars, and like the nose of mine is really close to my bar. So on bumpy stuff, when I'm when I'm an arrow, obviously it's against my arms and I imagine against yours so that it wouldn't rattle then. yeah But if you're holding on to the brakes.
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah, you if you're if you're hitting the strength. I can't remember. Sorry. Anyway, when you ride it outside, we want to hear the feedback on on the rattling. Because that was something that I was i also really hate when it when things rattle. So I'm very curious. Yeah.
00:34:38
Speaker
it It didn't bother me. I just wanted to know where it was coming from. i think my regular water bottle or my torpedo rattles just from whatever. so Um, yeah. So I yeah guess, yeah, that's my overall impression is it's great. It holds so much liquid.
00:34:53
Speaker
Um, it stayed cool. would, i think it would have been better if I had been able to do the ice, the the freezing and then put some water on top of it. Um, especially in Texas, because it, as I said, it starts cool.
00:35:07
Speaker
So I probably wouldn't need as much liquid to start. Um, but. Well, we we had our own fun story with trying to freeze the bottle. Oh, yeah. Right.
00:35:21
Speaker
So we we got to our hotel room and there, because of the humidity, there was so much frost in the freezer. So it's one of those little mini fridges with kind of the, not a ah proper division between the freezer and the the fridge. It's just got the, yeah the evaporator that's kind of up there and up at the top and and providing the cooling.
00:35:42
Speaker
And there was, I don't know, an inch, an inch and a half of frost. So we need to get rid of that to to get the bottle in. So we got the hairdryer in the most energy efficient way possible and added a whole bunch of heat to it.
00:35:55
Speaker
And we ended up with, ah so it was like vinyl plank flooring. It wasn't a carpet, fortunately. But we ended up with a little pool or a little flood in our room. I don't think it caused any damage, but it definitely took up some of our spare towels.
00:36:11
Speaker
So... Yeah, so we flooded our hotel room in the name of science. After that, we did freeze the bottle though. we We did, yes. It took a little bit longer than we expected, but we actually used some some of the ice from the ice machine and that kind of got it down close to freezing temperature. And then the freezer was able to take over and finish it off.
00:36:31
Speaker
So we were we were able to achieve that. And that's one of those learnings that you you know you you design this and you think about it and you never anticipate this kind of problem.
00:36:42
Speaker
Uh, until you go and actually try to do it. So this was a very good learning experience for us. So for anyone using the cool bottle, we'll be able to, uh, the guide them with some firsthand experience. yeah Tamara did offer to freeze my cool bottle for me, but I didn't want to put that on, on her.
00:36:59
Speaker
So she's a lovely human, but I definitely didn't want to put any extra pressure on her to get me my bottle. Yeah, her first pro race too. Her first pro full distance race.
00:37:13
Speaker
Yeah, very exciting. who And then you also managed to stash some some provisions between the sleeve and the model fuel, right? Well, because there is, so I don't do very well with the liquid carbs. So i had 450 grams of carbs in chews in my bento.
00:37:34
Speaker
So there wasn't a lot of room for the salt tablets that I need to take. That's a lot of chews. Holy smokes. Yeah. um I had four caffeine gels dissolved in another bottle. But anyways, it doesn't matter.
00:37:47
Speaker
um But yeah, I was able to stash the salt tabs in in the sleeves and just pull them out when I take salt. So that was also ah pro of the bottle and why I will be continuing to use it.
00:38:00
Speaker
That's a use case we never would have thought of. That's awesome. Yeah. i And I don't think that it lost me any aerodynamic time, at anything aerodynamic. like No, because your hands are, your hands are, covered your arms are covering that part of the coat.
00:38:12
Speaker
Yeah. I need to get my head down more, but that's not the bottle's fault.
00:38:18
Speaker
Okay. So, uh, should we move on to the run?
Post-Race Reflection and Strategies
00:38:21
Speaker
The run, I was super happy getting off the bike. I than i really had to pee. Um, and but, uh, starting the run. We have a very good photo of you yelling at us transition. That should be the podcast cover photo. Okay.
00:38:35
Speaker
yeah I was going to ask you if you were willing for for me to put that photo up as ah as the cover photo, but now I'm definitely going to do it. um Yeah, so I started the run and I was like, okay, I'm going to start out at my, I guess I expected my goal pace, not considering the heat about 440 to 445 per kilometer.
00:38:57
Speaker
was like, I'm starting out at 515 per kilometer so that I can just ease my way into it. And then I'll slowly pick up the pace by, you know, after I've gone through a couple aid stations, um, I got to the first aid station and because there weren't that many people on the course, the water was very warm.
00:39:13
Speaker
Um, so it was three, four cups of really warm water. um and anyways, and then ah so that was fine. But then by the time i think the second station, the aid station was the same.
00:39:27
Speaker
And that's when I started to be like, oh, this is actually a harder pace than I thought it would feel. um and I'm still running, you know, a lot slower than what I expected my pace to be. And then I was like, okay, this is this is going to be a slog, but I'll just keep hydrating and taking sodium and fueling and just sort of see what happens. So I think I got to maybe, maybe maybe I don't know, seven or 10K.
00:39:56
Speaker
it was at the other side. i think just before I saw you guys in the first loop. Anyways, and I was like, I could just feel nothing was going down and I felt like I had to puke.
00:40:06
Speaker
So i puked. And then I felt great. um But I was like, there go all my calories. So I ran pretty strong at my goal pace around 445. I walked all the aid stations, though, just to make sure that I could take care of myself.
00:40:23
Speaker
um And I put in a pretty good effort at staying cool, but it wasn't long before I was hot again. so um And then, you know, again, I started to feel that full feeling. And then the run turned to a jog, puked again.
00:40:38
Speaker
um And then went, felt good, ran, and then same thing. but by the end of the run, i think the last like 8K, I just had had no, I would guess that no energy got absorbed. So, you know, a marathon is probably for me, I'm burning like 3000 calories. So um it took everything to finish the race and cross the finish line.
00:41:03
Speaker
um But, you know, I think all things considered, looking at my pace, um stopping a bunch of times, walking the aid stations, to have run, i ran a 5.06 per kilometer. You know, that's not that much slower.
00:41:18
Speaker
It was just... than my target. It was just a really tough way to do it. And again, i don't i I don't feel like I got to race my Ironman. So I don't know if that's unfinished business or if it's like, no, let's stick to the short stuff. to Have a little bit more fun.
00:41:38
Speaker
Well, I do think there's a really good point in there about walking the aid stations. And i'm I'm sure we've had this discussion before, but my personal opinion is that it's worth the time that it takes because you take on the hydration, you take on the nutrition.
00:41:51
Speaker
And yes, you could argue that you lose 20 seconds per aid station, something like that. But I think you make up that time and more in between aid stations when your performance is better and you know possibly keeping you from bonking. 100%. Yeah. I remember...
00:42:05
Speaker
yeah i remember when I, before I did my first Ironman, a friend had done one before me and had said, i didn't walk once. And I was like, I can't walk at all.
00:42:17
Speaker
And I had that mentality going into all my Ironmans. And i think that that's wrong. I think it's really important to, most people, maybe if you're not like a Christian or um to, to walk the aid stations because it's so important to get that nutrition in. And I think,
00:42:37
Speaker
I was too focused on maybe the nutrition and I should have been more focused on the cooling aspect, like maybe stopping at the ice bucket or grabbing like cups and then using them for ice. And even I thought about like, you can get little, um ah guess, some don't know what they're called, but you can put ice, they have a zipper. you can put ice in them and then tie them around your neck um and like refill them at each aid station, like something, maybe something like that do.
00:43:07
Speaker
um focused a little bit more on the cooling aspect of it, when especially when the race started to go bit sideways for me. Well, one tip I picked up, and I've been made fun of for this, I still think it's a good idea, but one tip I picked up from a pro cyclist or a former pro cyclist was to take like pantyhose and ah fill it with ice, and then you put it down your back.
00:43:28
Speaker
Right. Because it's it's not going to hold the water in. As it melts, it leaks down your back and gives you some nice cooling, but it's also got that contact against your skin. Yeah, and even like um a small mesh bag, something might might that might like go with a just a ah tie, because I think they give those out at ah the T100 races.
00:43:49
Speaker
I didn't think enough beforehand about stuff like that to cool myself during the run part. So what did you do for cooling? Was there anything? i mean, other than drinking and... I did put, I tried to put ice in my hat, which was hilarious. I put the ice in my hat.
00:44:05
Speaker
then I tried to put the hat on my head. It was just kind of... yeah Was it, uh, I didn't think of that very well. Yeah. it was it it was Mag, it was, uh, Magnus, Magnus did love who had yeah an iceberg. I think it was described as or the super Mario hat.
00:44:21
Speaker
Yeah. i I did try to take ice and run with them in my hands. Um, because I've heard that that's pretty good and like hold them close to my wrist. Um, but yeah, it, I don't know. I think in training, I thought, Oh, I've nailed my nutrition. I have had this heat tent prep.
00:44:37
Speaker
I'm good. So, um, that's that's when the the bad stuff happens. you have to plan for the worst case scenarios. One thing that you mentioned that I also like totally resonates with me is you, it's hard, I'm paraphrasing, but it's hard for you when it's sunny, when there' when there's a lot of that, like that solar radiation on the skin. And that's something that I've been thinking a lot about because i too suffer greatly. I mean, if it's the difference between overcast and not overcast, even in the same air temperature for me is massive. And yeah,
00:45:09
Speaker
And I remember reading something where where they there were there was a study done where they had, um you know, like heat lamps on folks and they were measuring internal core temperatures right with rectal or pills or whatever.
00:45:22
Speaker
And the core temperature didn't change for these folks. Right. It was just skin temperature that was higher because of the the radiative heating. And so the core temperature didn't change, but the performance declined.
00:45:33
Speaker
Like there was a substantial difference in performance. the The performance declined when the heat lamps were on because because all of our heat sensors are in our skin, right? And I've been thinking about like, how do we how do we fight that? So this is something that that is kind of like a long-term thing for me. And the only thing that I have so far that I think it was Lindsay Hunt that talked about when he was on the show, um again, ah Precision Fuel and Hydration. I have a meeting with Dr. Lindsay.
00:46:00
Speaker
Yes, Dr. Lindsay's cool. Say hello for for for me. um And he was talking about one of the things I think he suggested was, and this is something and people do, is ah dousing themselves in cold water.
00:46:12
Speaker
Because what that does is ah it like drops your skin temperature because you know your skin's fairly thin, doesn't hold a lot of heat. should have jumped in the ice bucket. Yeah. So like be like, you know, dumping cold water on yourself, it it provides sort of pretty temporary relief, but it does provide relief. And as far as I know, that's the only thing that that works for this.
00:46:34
Speaker
Well, there might be something else. um the The menthol application. Oh, yeah. skin True. um So we've we've had chats about that in the past, but it it gives a sensation of cooling. It doesn't actually. I don't know the the physiological change, like if it actually triggers the same receptors. evaporative cooling, right? Like the menthol evaporates, like the alcohol evaporates quickly. And I think there is some actual cooling.
00:46:55
Speaker
Okay. um But in any case, it gives you that nice, cool feeling. um So I think there's a big mental But when we had Erica Gavelle on that, it was just ah the menthol mouth rinse. And I tried that and it just made me nauseous. Like there was ah there was something about the taste of it that I just couldn't do. So I stopped trying it. But it might be like as ah as a rub, maybe like carry like a little stick, like a deodorant stick or something of it.
00:47:17
Speaker
Like a deep cold, like one of those muscle things. Maybe, because I think a lot of this is, there's definitely, and Andrew, you've done the math on this, and I know we've talked about it. There's definitely heat load from solar radiation. It's not trivial, especially on the bike when you're more horizontal and the sun's overhead.
00:47:35
Speaker
But a lot of it, I bet, is perce like just a perception of heat. And so maybe something like that, yeah, like a deep cold. If it doesn't muck up your muscles in some weird way, it could be an interesting solution. It would feel so good, though.
00:47:47
Speaker
That's what I was thinking. I'm very excited. People could smell you coming. yeah
00:47:56
Speaker
I think everyone sort of loses their own an Ironman. yeah, for sure. Anything goes. There were so many, but yeah, so much bodily fluids on that course by the end. There there were. and but the The volunteers were actually thanking me for peeing in the port-a-potty.
00:48:14
Speaker
So you know that there were people who were, yeah, not. Yeah. Yeah. know But definitely worth the investigating, this the skin thing. like this is When you talk to Lindsay, ask him. Ask him if he's got anything yeah any any new clever solutions. And I'd love for you to report back because I'm very curious.
00:48:34
Speaker
Yeah, I was i was curious too. I looked at the people who beat me who I had never heard of before. And most of them were coming from you know um like Brazilian or like they were coming from their, their summer. So summers um that just, I think having just being immersed in hot temperatures for a long time um is helpful. So yes, I had my heat tent, but that was what, you know, three hours every 10, every 10 days plus maybe three, like in terms of the grand scheme of things, it wasn't like I was doing my day to day in the heat acclimating
Maintaining Heat Adaptation
00:49:09
Speaker
that way. It was just a few hours a week.
00:49:11
Speaker
So i was joking with Andrew that while we were walking around and doing all the expo stuff and spectating that we were heat training just by virtue of being in like, you know, 30 degree plus whatever humidity environments for, for the better part of the afternoon.
00:49:25
Speaker
Another thing that I wonder about too is race week. Like you don't do very much training. um How much, you know, like, should you do more in in hot races? Like, i've that's something I've sort of struggled with, um you know, because are you losing some blood volume because you're you're not exercising as much?
00:49:46
Speaker
um for going into these hot races. So should you be doing some like, ah like longer sessions? I'm not sure. These are some questions I'll ask. That's a, that's a, that's a really good question. My suspicion is you may want to do some lower intensity stuff in the, in the heat, but like enough so that, cause there's obviously that carries a stress cost too, right?
00:50:04
Speaker
who yeah I would maybe not do that in the last 48 hours. No, no. Yeah. and And then, yeah. We watched all the people. So Andrew and I were like, you know, we spent a lot of time around the race course and the the expo. And there were so many people on.
00:50:20
Speaker
So the race was Saturday. There were people running the run course. he worked they were I mean, they looked like they were going to be in the race because they were wearing like all the gear. And yeah if you are racing tomorrow and it was like afternoon runs, like if you're racing tomorrow, you are insane that you're doing these runs right now. Not today. Not today. yeah No. i'm I'm just hoping that they were the the spouses of people who are racing.
00:50:44
Speaker
yeah You were giving them the benefit of the doubt. I was not, I was just calling them dummies. Full judgment. Yes.
00:50:52
Speaker
Awesome. Well, um Miranda, thank you so much for for sharing your race experience. I think ah super relevant to all all of our folks, you know, all of us folks in the Northern Hemisphere, starting in the race seasons in the warmer climates.
00:51:07
Speaker
um yeah I think a lot of, ah you know, a lot of people listening can relate to the trials and tribulations of a hot race. Yeah, I would say that my number one tip obviously is to, if you don't have access to any sort of heat training, is just pace paste the bike and do your best to stay cool on the run.
Upcoming Races and Guests
00:51:27
Speaker
Do it using all the techniques we sort of brushed over a little bit that I didn't do. but Nice. What's next for your season? you So you mentioned maybe no more full distance races. What else you got?
00:51:37
Speaker
I don't have any anything planned for, um, um in terms of Ironman distance races, but, uh, 70.3 Eagleman on June 8th. Cool. And then, um I'm excited to race some short stuff where the nutrition and heat doesn't matter quite as much.
00:51:53
Speaker
So I have three Olympic distance races planned locally, well in Toronto Triath Festival the Sega. And then I'll probably do barrelman and then I'll sort of see what to do for the rest of the year.
00:52:07
Speaker
Um, I will be heading with my sister to 70.3 worlds, but I don't know whether I can get a spot, but I will do my best. We will be there to cheer you on at Welland and Wasega.
00:52:19
Speaker
andtr amazing And Amazing. Oh yeah, and TTF as well. Yeah, we're actually, we're going to have booths. ah So Toronto listeners, if you're local, of course, we or Ontario listeners, so we will, ah with the Cool Bottle, have booths at all of those races. So it's like you picked your race schedule around us, Welland, TTF, and Wasega.
00:52:37
Speaker
That's right. Well, I have so much fun at these local races. It's just such a great community. And you just run into people you haven't seen maybe in a couple of years. And but organ race organizers are great. So i'm I'm looking forward to sort of being being getting back to my roots and and doing some fast stuff.
00:52:55
Speaker
Nice. And Eagleman, you mentioned Eagleman's also historically quite a warm race. Yes, exactly. That's why I have this call with Dr. Lindsay Hunt to give me some final tips and why I'm setting up this treadmill experiment with my shower curtains.
00:53:11
Speaker
Yeah, amazing. I love it. i yeah Next time i I talk to you, i want to hear how... i think I have to pick up your core sensor to see if I can monitor something. Yeah, totally. um I'm not getting any use out of it. So yeah, you're welcome to it.
00:53:26
Speaker
Perfect. That will help. Well, thanks again. And ah listen, best of luck for the rest of the season. Yes, thank you. I look forward to ah the cool bottle keeping me cool on the bike. Sweet.
00:53:41
Speaker
So listeners, we've waved goodbye to Miranda and it's just Andrew and myself right now. And, you know, kind of in the interest of- Well, we have Lauren Brandon coming up.
00:53:52
Speaker
We do have Lauren Brandon coming. I was going to keep that as a secret, but you've kind of spoiled the surprise. I've ruined the surprise. You have. No, it's okay. Yeah, so we- That's my special. We actually had um Lauren, who is working with Varlow now, but we saw her at the expo and we grabbed a couple of minute, quick little chat because she's a ah Texas veteran. So we'll leave that interview for the end of the show. this ah That's an incentive for you listeners to ah stick around and listen to us nerd out over.
00:54:21
Speaker
Exactly. um ah to to hear to To hear Lauren. So don't fast forward, listen to us, but she will be coming up before the end of the show. So we saw a lot of interesting things, um both technology and just interesting things at the race.
00:54:37
Speaker
But there's a couple of trends that I think we picked up on that that we wanted to chat about. And ah one of those would be kind of the custom front end cockpits, which um are currently the bane of our existence.
Bike Aerodynamics and Equipment
00:54:49
Speaker
dad tell Tell me, Andrew. Yeah.
00:54:52
Speaker
No, there's there's definitely a trend towards more integrated, more custom molded front ends. And I think aerodynamically, it it does make sense. You're integrating two separate pieces, you know your forearms and the bars that you're using, and you're basically turning it in into one single object, which is a lot more smooth aerodynamically and can help cut drag.
00:55:14
Speaker
So there is definitely a trend towards these kind of bars. the The fact that carbon is becoming cheaper, you see a lot of the the mid-priced bars that have more of these contours instead of just the round bars that that used to exist, like the round bars that i I have on my bike.
00:55:31
Speaker
um Those are becoming less common now. But certainly... Well, I would push back a little bit on that. So there's still very much the norm on the the majority of the bikes in the bunch. I think we're focusing a little bit here on the the you know the pointy end of the field, the the sponsored athletes, and maybe the most like aerodynamically curious of the age groupers. Oh, curious. yeah Yeah, aero curious. Yeah.
00:56:01
Speaker
No, it's it's a good point. But I think it's it's like any trickle down that we see. For sure. Where it starts the top end and it's going to work its way down. Yeah, it's coming no matter what. Yeah. cheaper ah But it it is interesting to see. And the front end is kind of the, in my opinion, the last bastion of aerodynamic, large aerodynamic improvements. Because we've done a lot of work on the suits.
00:56:21
Speaker
We've done a lot of work. i say we but the the industry has done a lot of work on the helmets the bike positions are getting better um the the bikes themselves are designed more to take care of those positions and to allow those positions. So little bit more stretched out, I think, is what we're seeing.
00:56:37
Speaker
um So it is it is interesting to see that happen. I think the relative differences that we see between bikes now has diminished quite a bit, um just because everything is so aerodynamically optimized that there's just such little gain to be had there anymore.
00:56:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think there are some things. Like we're, we, one of the kind of the show pieces for this event, at least for us, one of the things that was really interested in was getting an up close and personal look at the new Ventum Tempest bike.
00:57:12
Speaker
um And, you know, traditional and double diamonds. So they've gone away from their, their Zed shaped, ah you know, sort of their, their standard bear Ventum one shape.
00:57:23
Speaker
um So traditional double diamond, but less traditional in terms of the wide stance of the ah the fork and the seat stays. you know They've kind of gone in the direction that some of the the track bikes, like I think it was the Hope bike was the first one that we saw that went super wide. Yeah, the Lotus Hope. Yeah, and there was there's been a couple since. So that was ah that was definitely...
00:57:46
Speaker
you know, maybe not super traditional in terms of in terms of shaping. So there's still some things happening on the bike front, but I think you you kind of nailed it on the position side where it's, you know, we we've banged on about this for a while, that it's it's the rider that comprises...
00:58:03
Speaker
You know, depending on the speed. five percent Yeah, 80% is the number that's thrown around a lot. 80% of the drag and ah and the riders being in the most aerodynamic position, of course, is then therefore very advantageous.
00:58:15
Speaker
And having a bike that allows the rider to achieve that position is huge. And that's something that I think you and I agree on that bikes aren't long enough. Like we are morphologically fairly average in terms of like torso to leg length.
00:58:28
Speaker
And I can't find a bike that's long enough for me to ride the position that I want with the seat angle, the seat angle that I want and the length I want um without, you know, riding an extra large, which carries with it the danger of bodily injury because the standover is too tall for me.
00:58:48
Speaker
What kind of bodily injury are you referring to? I think nut smash is the technical term here. Well, i I do remember Gustav Eden. I think his position was extremely stretched at one point. In Kona, right?
00:59:02
Speaker
Yeah, and I believe Ironman has kind of limited, or at least they've changed the wording around that. Yeah, so the limit is the new rule. They introduced a couple of rules, but yeah, a great point that you bring up.
00:59:12
Speaker
The tip of the extensions cannot pass the leading edge of the wheel, the front wheel. So if you run into a wall, your wheel better hit first. Yes. Yeah. I mean, probably the least of your worries, but yeah, that's right.
00:59:26
Speaker
It's a, it's a very easy thing to test, but, uh, I'm not sure if he would have violated that in, uh, in Kona or not, but he was crazy stretched out. I think he, I think he did. i think there were some pictures where his hands were stretched out over over but the front. I can't say for sure. So, um, please don't hate me. if i ah Corrections quarter.
00:59:44
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. But it does kind of, um well, what we're seeing is this slow transition back towards the Graham Obrey Superman position um where he was super stretched out. And it kind of makes sense because you've got everything in in line.
00:59:58
Speaker
There's less, I mean, yeah, you've still got the frontal area if you're projecting it onto a screen, but the way the distribution of the area, your arms are more in line.
01:00:09
Speaker
There's less contribution to the the drag from your arms and your hands and yeah and the leading edges. So the CD might be improving while your A is maybe not so much. Exactly. Yeah. yeah Yeah. And it's not universally adopted. You still see some very fast folks who are not, you know, not super stretched out, but by and large, I think people are trying to get longer.
01:00:27
Speaker
one of the things that getting longer allows you to do is it allows you to flatten your back a little bit where without, without dropping your, you know, your front end. That's where we used to be 10 years ago is the only way to flatten your back is to really drop that front end. And that was unsustainable for the,
01:00:41
Speaker
vast majority of us, but now even like, you know, average folks like me, I can get a pretty flat back so long as I can get long enough on that bike. um Yes, it's it's always interesting to think that you know at one point you're at an aerodynamic optimum and then someone changes something else. yeah And it's like, oh, there's this whole new avenue that we haven't explored.
01:01:00
Speaker
For sure. And hey, it's a lot more comfortable than it used to be. Yeah. Okay. So we we we saw the Ventum and it was ah it was a pretty cool bike. We were very interested in in seeing how the front end of it was set up because and Andrew kind of mentioned that front integrative front ends are the bane of our existence. And of course, the the obvious reason for that is that We are now trying to mount our bottle to the front ends of all of these bikes or as many of these bikes that as will have us.
01:01:27
Speaker
And it's definitely proving to be a little bit more of a challenge than we thought at first. And we're coming up with creative engineering solutions to some of these challenges, but um they are challenges nonetheless.
01:01:39
Speaker
And I don't want to turn this into an advertisement. So we don't have to dwell on this point too much. But um the the next point I wanted to move on to was some of the helmets that we saw.
01:01:50
Speaker
Yes. Some interesting, maybe I'll use that word, interesting shapes out there. um They're getting uglier by the year. But that's what happens when engineers- the eye of beholder, Andrew, in the eye of the beholder.
01:02:04
Speaker
They're beautiful to engineers, but no one else. Yeah, right. ah We saw an Arrowhead 2. I've never seen the one of those in the flesh. That is a weird looking helmet. Yes. Yeah. So I was researching some of them today. So the Arrowhead 2, there was, I think we saw the Poc Tempor. Saw a few of those. Yeah, we saw a couple, at least people a couple of people. That's an oldie but a goodie. That one's that one's kind of ahead of its time.
01:02:29
Speaker
it It was ahead of its time. I'd put an asterisk on that. And we'll get back to that in a second. Okay. um And to did you see any of the specialized ones, the the sock helmets? I don't think anyone's using a sock, but I feel like I saw one. No, it would be too hot for the sock. I don't remember anyone. i mean, certainly this is not an exhaustive list, listeners. I do not remember because we watched all the pros come in We watched all the pros come in and I don't remember seeing, and I was paying attention at lids.
01:02:56
Speaker
I don't remember seeing a specialized helmet. No, I forget what it's called. The new one with the sock. Yeah, the TT5 is what I... The TT5, yeah. Yeah, what I found. um The other one that I was hoping to see that I didn't see was the Redeemer, um which is the one that has the little stagnation port at the front of the helmet. Oh, this is the sweet protection helmet?
01:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, sweet protection. like can't remember their name, but yeah. And the air flows around. And I think in theory, it's a good idea, but it's one of those designs that's going to be ultra sensitive to head position.
01:03:28
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, no, we didn't see any. I think I really want i really want one. um Mostly because I actually ride like a couple of sweet protection helmets and they fit my oddly shaped melon very well. And I really just, I just really like their their road helmets.
01:03:42
Speaker
um I don't know that I'm prepared to spend $700 on that helmet, but I would love to, I'd love to give it a test because i do like the idea of it, but I've never seen one in the flesh. No.
01:03:53
Speaker
The other odd thing that that I've seen in the the pro pro ranks, mostly pro cycling, but Cam Worf was riding this helmet, but the cast Cask Bambino Pro, um but specifically with the Aero Pro visor. So again, I was looking at this up today.
01:04:09
Speaker
And it's got those little wings on the bottom, kind of like, it's almost like, you know, those tanning mirrors that people used to use. Yeah. So it's kind of like mini tanning mirrors for your eyes, but I think Tamara had that same helmet too. Tamara Jewett.
01:04:25
Speaker
Yeah. And you can buy the the visor and it fits a bunch of their different helmets. i mean So the, the visor with the, the little extensions, but um it's a really interesting look at things and what a lot of these are, what a couple of these helmets are starting to trend towards, especially like the Arrowhead to the Redeemer.
01:04:42
Speaker
um and the Specialized TT5, they're all becoming much wider at the front. So they're trying to build your shoulders into the helmet structure, or at least kind of have that integrated together.
01:04:54
Speaker
um And the the little visor flip-ups, from what I can see and what I was reading, the purpose of those is to redirect it more error instead of having it hit your visor and go down, it's redirecting more air around your helmet.
01:05:09
Speaker
So it keeps it in kind of a cleaner flow area where you can control a better. um So with any helmet, with any object moving through air, there's two types of drag. um So this is the aerodynamics 101 refresher that we're doing here. But there's two types of drag. We're covering a lot of ground in this in this episode.
01:05:28
Speaker
And I promise I will be super quick with this because it's something that could easily grow way out of scope. But so the two types of drag are pressure drag and skin drag. um or viscous drag. So the pressure drag is basically when you have a big flow separation, you've got high pressure on one side and low pressure on the other.
01:05:45
Speaker
um There's an imbalance of force that creates that net loss or that net drag. And the other is the viscous drag. A good example for these two is if you're driving along the highway, you put your hand out the window, you keep it perpendicular to the airflow, that's more pressure drag. If you rotate it um and there's no flow separation, so it's now parallel with the airflow, that's viscous drag.
01:06:08
Speaker
um So what you want. so it's like the stickiness of the air to your skin in the case of your hand being on the window. that's That's pulling your, that's slowing down your hand. Trying to slow down your hand. Yeah.
01:06:19
Speaker
Yeah. um So what a lot of the aero helmets are trying to do is reduce the amount of pressure drag that exists. um That's the main focus because that's usually the bigger component. So they do this by having a tapered rear end.
01:06:33
Speaker
um And they they try and keep that flow attached. You see different ah different ways of doing this. So you can have dimples to kind of precondition the flow, make it slightly more turbulent so it stays attached longer. So that's one way of doing it.
01:06:47
Speaker
So the dimples aren't to reduce the friction drag, the viscous drag? They actually increase friction drag or viscous drag. Oh, interesting. So when you have turbulent flow, it typically has a little bit more shear stress or a little bit more viscous effects hu just because of how the the interactions with the turbulence occur.
01:07:07
Speaker
Um, but because the pressure drag is so much larger, you have a net benefit there. Got it. So, um, yeah, so that's, that's kind of the, the dimple purpose and, and you see some of the dimples on the the suits now and things like that.
01:07:21
Speaker
um But the the helmets generally are trying to reduce that pressure drag. So the Redeemer with the little flow vent that goes around your head, they're trying to fill in the wake, which is essentially trying to reduce the pressure drag.
01:07:33
Speaker
um The POC Tempor has a very tapered shape. So that's trying to keep the flow attached. And what I hinted at earlier, the thing that historically hasn't been great for that helmet is that it's very sensitive to head position and to crosswinds.
01:07:49
Speaker
Uh, and it's also very heavy relative. yes Yeah. So it's got some disadvantages, but it's also one of the fastest helmets when it comes to indoor riding. So if you're on a calm day, um, and you've got enough neck strength that, uh, that you can hold it up for five hours, six hours, then it could be a very good helmet.
01:08:08
Speaker
Um, so, I mean, there's, there's those things to consider, The other trend that that I notice is when you look at the Arrowhead 2, it's got a fairly interesting front end.
01:08:23
Speaker
um So it's a lot of what it's trying to do is take, i this is my assumption, but it's trying to take the crosswind and reduce the amount of potential flow separation that you would have. So if you're you're getting a big crosswind and you've got you know a taper on one side or on the rear end, you don't want the flow to separate all down the the side of the helmet.
01:08:43
Speaker
on the leeward side of the helmet compared to the crosswind. So the the front end on the helmets like the Arrowhead 2 allow the flow to stay a little bit more attached, maybe at the sacrifice of some of the overall, like the absolute minimum drag that you can get.
01:09:01
Speaker
but At zero yaw? At zero yaw, yeah. But you you're probably sacrificing that for more real world riding conditions. Interesting. I'm also super curious about like the speeds, the design speeds of these, right? Because there's quite a bit of difference for, you know, but in terms of airspeed and it's, the you know, what works best at different airspeeds or is that more for kit and less for helmets?
01:09:25
Speaker
No, it's ah it's relevant for helmets as well. um i I would have to check the exact numbers that that we're looking at, but um this is getting into the argument of the the whole reason golf balls have dimples.
01:09:37
Speaker
um and So you hit a certain um you you hit a certain velocity where you get turbulent airflow, and that reduces the size of the flow separation. It sounds a little counterintuitive, but that's the way it works out. So turbulent flow stays attached longer, which is what you want.
01:09:54
Speaker
um So we intentionally make it turbulent so it stays attached and reduces the pressure drag. With helmets, like there's a ratio between the size and the the velocity that you're traveling at.
01:10:05
Speaker
And we would have to check when that transition happens. So it can happen naturally without the dimples. um And that may happen already at the speeds we're traveling at.
01:10:17
Speaker
So um the larger the object, the the slower it has to be traveling in order to hit that critical speed. And it's got a very dramatic name. It's called the drag crisis, which I love, but that's a great song I think we've talked about drag crises in the past, but yeah, it's still an awesome name.
01:10:33
Speaker
Yeah. So um something I love talking about, but yeah, it's, it could be that helmets are designed in and around that, that kind of speed where that matters.
01:10:45
Speaker
The other helmets that we saw, for sure, um that I want to mention, and they sort of fit at least one element that you spoke about, is the ah the Rudy Wing Dream. It's the one that looks like a Stormtrooper. um it's And it's a really wide helmet. It doesn't have a long tail. Rudy hasn't had long tail helmets probably ever. They were one of the kind of, their their their design language is the short tail helmet.
01:11:09
Speaker
um But this one's a lot wider than anything they've done before. And then the Equoy, what's this guy called? The Pure Arrow, also another wide helmet from Equoy, little bit of a longer tail and a wide tail. So it's interesting that even though the tail tapers vertically towards the back, as you're meant to ride it, it doesn't come to a point. If you think of historically...
01:11:40
Speaker
<unk> maybe 10 year ago kind of helmet, long tail helmet, it would come to a fairly tapered point. But the equine helmet is, you know, comes down to the back vertically, but it stays fairly wide ah horizontally.
01:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, and that's similar to the Endura helmets as well. um The AeroSwitch, I think, is the one of I've got. And it's got the same kind of tail where its it tapers down vertically, but it stays wide.
01:12:06
Speaker
So I think, again, that's to deal with crosswind performance where you're getting maybe not ideal wind conditions. And it's just the the overall, you know you you mentioned it earlier, the overall trend to wider, is that is there a desire to ah you know integrate there or condition the airflow, if maybe that's not the right word, over the shoulders of the of the rider?
01:12:30
Speaker
That's my suspicion, is that they're trying to... um trying to get rid of that little, the you know, the little divot in your neck that exists yeah like where your collarbone is, because that's not a very good area aerodynamically.
01:12:44
Speaker
So that's, um if you can redirect the airflow away from that, ah in a similar way to how having a bit of extra extra padding around the midsection can make you more aerodynamic because you're smoothing out that region.
01:13:00
Speaker
That's how we were making each other feel better when we were eating Texas barbecue, Andrew. We're just getting more aerodynamic. Exactly. We were working on aerodynamics. that would say it was a It was a performance enhancing dinner.
01:13:12
Speaker
Yes. Absolutely. i So I think that is what they're kind of targeting with the helmets now. um Before it was the focus on the head. Now it's the focus on integrating it into the whole body. And it's just the evolution of the the science that goes into it and just how they're looking at the problem more holistically instead of just, here's your head. You need to reduce the drag on the head. This is now, we need to reduce the drag on the whole body.
01:13:39
Speaker
Cool. Okay. um I think that's cool. ah Cool for a recap. ah We learned a whole more folks, but that's more on the the business side of of how do you get a product to market. Of course, for us, the the the cool bottle. We're not going to talk about that because that's very specific to what we're were' we were doing there.
01:13:59
Speaker
um But as ah in terms of technology, this is the kind of stuff that we're noticing and hopefully you found it
Product Launches and Air Density
01:14:04
Speaker
interesting. um So Andrew, yeah, we talked about front ends, talked about bikes, talked about helmets. Anything else we want to cover? I do have one more thing that I want to take a quick look at, or well, I guess you won't really look at it on a podcast, but a quick listen to. Use your imagination. um It was a fast day.
01:14:21
Speaker
There's no question about that with the multiple records falling. um Both bike course records, male and female, fell. And it got me thinking, like it was stinking hot by the end of the day.
01:14:32
Speaker
um Maybe not the start of the bike, but I was curious how much you could gain by the change in air density between 20 degrees 30 degree air. um So I went through and did the calculation today.
01:14:45
Speaker
And um so i assumed a few things and whatever, these are just numbers, but it it at least sets a ah level for the the calculation. So 0.21, rolling resistance of 0.005, just for background.
01:15:00
Speaker
um The air density at 20 degrees Celsius is 1.196 kilograms per cubic meter. um The air density at 30 degrees Celsius goes down, so hotter air is less dense.
01:15:12
Speaker
why hot air balloons fly and not sink. But 1.149 is the density there. So it's a little under 5%. Oh, wow. not an insignificant difference. no i was actually surprised when I looked it up how much of a difference there was.
01:15:27
Speaker
So the lower density, because when you're calculating drag force, it's like 0.5 times the density of air times the CDA times velocity squared. um it So 40 kilometers an hour um with those numbers I mentioned would be about 230 watts with 20 degrees Celsius there.
01:15:47
Speaker
um The same speed at 30 degrees Celsius 222 watts. So it's like a... Wow. or Or with the same power, you could ride at 40.5 kilometers an hour.
01:16:01
Speaker
at, uh, 230 Watts. So 40 versus 40.5 kilometers an hour is three, three and a half minutes over the around three and a half minutes over the bike leg.
01:16:12
Speaker
So that's huge. Yeah, that's, that's pretty big. And that's, you know, even though it was a hot day, that could be part of the reason that we saw some of the records fall. Um, so it was not windy and it's a favorable course for that kind of thing.
01:16:24
Speaker
Um, so I thought that was interesting. It was kind of enlightening to see how much of a difference density makes. that's That's huge. I mean, obviously you pay for it on the run and you probably lose more than three minutes on the run on on a 30 degree day versus a 20 degree day. But it's interesting to see that. So if you were doing you were doing just a bike race, that's what you want.
01:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Low density air, except there's less oxygen in it and you get hotter. So if you can manage that. Yeah. Yes, that's right. That's right. That's right.
01:16:53
Speaker
um Awesome. Okay. Well, thank you for that.
Guest Introduction: Lauren Brandon
01:16:56
Speaker
And um I think we've, ah we've talked, we've nerded out sufficiently and as a little palate cleanser, as promised, we have our quick chat with ah Lauren Brandon.
01:17:12
Speaker
All right, so I'm here with Lauren Brandon at the Ironman Texas Expo. It's really nice to see you in person this time, Lauren, because you have been on the show once before, but that was over at a distance screen. When was that?
01:17:25
Speaker
A couple of years ago? A few years ago? That was before we went on our little hiatus. So that would have been probably 2022, 2021. Time guys. does fine Now I'm retired and you're still talking to me for some reason. we're talking to you because you've raced Texas, you told us, five, six times?
01:17:44
Speaker
Yes, many times. My first year was 2016, so probably many times since then. Yeah. Makes sense. One of my favorites. Is it? Tell me why you like it. don't I think you always know what to expect here. Like, I loved racing in early season Ironman because it kind of got you motivated through the winter to train hard. yup And I don't know.
01:18:05
Speaker
There's something about this race. Like, it is a great race or run course. There's a lot of support out there. um And I always think that the weather here kind of makes it a little more open to...
01:18:17
Speaker
whoever's going to win just because you never know what's going to happen. What does that mean? Oh, because it's not as predictable? Yes, because it's usually very hot and humid and windy. And so it's just really tough conditions. And while I've had some very poor races here, i've definitely blown up and been one of those people.
01:18:33
Speaker
I've also had some good races. So yeah, but I guess the conditions are hard and kind of makes it more fun. Awesome. So staying on the conditions, um you mentioned the heat and the humidity. What are some of the things in the past that you've done to prepare yourself before the race, during the race?
01:18:48
Speaker
So the first few years I raced here, I actually lived in Texas, which was nice. So I was used to the heat, used to the humidity. um And then I moved to Utah, where we were coming from winter. So that was a little rough, but i would still, I would do some sauna work.
01:19:03
Speaker
And I would wear some hoodies when I was training inside and to make it really hot. No fan rides. That was really hot and rough. But yeah. Yeah, to kind of help prepare for the heat.
Lauren's Heat Strategies and Podcast Closing
01:19:17
Speaker
Makes sense. Yeah. Amazing. And then during the race, anything special? During the race, lots lots of salt, electrolytes, and all the ice. Yeah. But on the bike, they don't provide you ice out there. They don't. on the run, putting ice everywhere, holding it in your hands, just trying to stay cool any way you can. Nice.
01:19:37
Speaker
Well, thank you very much for your time and your insight. Thanks, guys. Always a pleasure to talk to you. Yeah.
01:19:43
Speaker
Folks, as always, thank you very much for listening. I know it's been a little while since we've spoken to you, um but we've got a couple of interesting episodes lined up in the next next couple months, let's say.
01:19:55
Speaker
If you like what you hear, rate and review us on your preferred podcast player, and we'll talk to you soon.
01:20:21
Speaker
you