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82. A Conversation With Acacea Lewis, Now Known As Pema Dolma
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Acacea Lewis, now known as Pema Dolma, is a researcher, world traveler, teacher and conscious explorer of inner realms. She was a friend and student of the late great Kilindi Iyi, a martial arts and psychedelic master, who traversed the realms of legend using ungodly doses of psychedelic mushrooms. If you’re unfamiliar with his work, do yourself a favor and check him out. Since this recording, Acacea has studied Dhamra and became a Vajrayana Nun in the Kagyu Lineage. This conversation does not reflect her current thoughts, as they have greatly evolved since then.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Pursuit of Infinity Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Pursuit of Infinity, a podcast where we journey into the landscapes of consciousness and beyond, diving deep into the realms of psychedelics, metaphysics, and more.
00:00:11
Speaker
This is episode 82, where we're joined by teacher and psychedelic warrior, Acacia Lewis. Acacia is a researcher, world traveler, teacher, and conscious explorer of inner realms.
Acacia's Journey with Kalindi E.
00:00:22
Speaker
She was a friend and student of the late great Kalindi E. Yee, a martial arts and psychedelic master who traversed the realms of legend using ungodly doses of psychedelic mushrooms.
00:00:33
Speaker
If you're unfamiliar with his work, do yourself a favor and check him out. But before we get to today's conversation, I'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsor for today's show. This podcast is partnered with Maestro Hamilton, Souther, and Blue Morpho. As many of you know, we talk about psychedelics quite a bit on this show, and if you'd like to take your personal practice or a facilitation practice to the next level, Hamilton is our master shaman.
00:01:00
Speaker
He's trained in traditional Amazonian lineage for more than 20 years, Now he's opening the doors to his plant medicine sitter and facilitator training. You'll receive eight weeks of material, a certification pathway, and a step-by-step lineage-based system you can go through at your own pace.
00:01:16
Speaker
As part of this offer, Hamilton has lowered tuition to support you in your mission of safe and seasoned psychedelic practice by providing quality education at a discounted rate.
00:01:26
Speaker
So by signing up through this show, you get a $2,000 discount along with more in bonus material. Plus an ongoing mentorship and integration support at your home practice.
00:01:40
Speaker
Maestro Hamilton backs this work with his full confidence and offers a 14-day money-back guarantee and a three-month safety guarantee. Flexible payment plans are available. Everything you need to know will be in the show notes below and a link to download his new album, which is called Music for Ceremony Ayahuasca Medicine Songs for Free.
00:01:59
Speaker
Perfect for dropping in or meditating. As always, you can visit our website, pursuitofinfinity.com, where you can listen to the podcast through our integrated media player. If you prefer that one over Spotify, Apple, Audible, or any of the other podcast platforms, you can also find all the places you can follow us there and you can reach out to us using our email form or our audio feature.
00:02:23
Speaker
Give us a follow on Instagram at Pursuit of Infinity Pod and head over to our YouTube channel, which is YouTube.com slash at Pursuit of Infinity, where we post all of our episodes and shorts.
00:02:34
Speaker
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00:02:50
Speaker
And if you really love the show and you want to show us some extra support, visit our Patreon at patreon.com slash pursuit of infinity and become a patron.
Kalindi's Teachings and Impact
00:02:58
Speaker
We appreciate each and every one of you. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
00:03:19
Speaker
Keisha, thank you so much for joining me today. It's an honor to be here. Thank you, Josh. I really appreciate it Now, you are steeped in the work of Kalindi e um And that's one of the main reasons that I reached out to discuss this with you, because Kalindi has been such a huge influence on me and the work that I do.
00:03:41
Speaker
And I don't hear a lot of people talk about him on a very deep level. And then I came across you, ah you being a student of his. So if anyone doesn't know, Kalindi is a master, was unfortunately, a master martial artist who would...
00:03:57
Speaker
delve into the deepest realms of the psychedelics with upwards of 40 grams dried mushrooms. um So for, again, anyone who hasn't heard of him, would you be able to go into a little more detail about him, his work and how you came to know him?
00:04:14
Speaker
Yes, yes, I would. I would love to. um Grandmaster Ahati Kalindi Iyi was and is a world-renowned African martial arts expert and world traveler who studied mycology and taught mycology extensively in his time, as well as African world martial arts.
00:04:39
Speaker
And um he was able to find a symbiotic relationship between the mushroom and martial arts in general, as well as in his own practices um that led to him teaching about high-dose mushroom use and different types of sovereign forms of travel that go back to ancient texts like the Bhagavad Gita and others, as well as the African roots of of entheogenic use being connected to ah the the Panther Society and martial arts dance that has been taught in Africa for millions of years.
00:05:18
Speaker
So how did you come to know him? He became my friend. you know He would have never called me a student, even though I considered myself a student. i He was somebody who um I would call quite frequently. ah He made the mistake of doing what people used to do in the early 2000s, which is post their phone number on Facebook if they weren't going to be on there.
00:05:42
Speaker
That's before a lot of us had thousands of Facebook friends and such, you know, so he posted his, his phone number once. And of course, you know, I guess he learned his lesson, took it right back down. But I still had to contact him for on my phone. I still have contact Calindi.
00:05:56
Speaker
And that was his cell phone number. And yeah, he had actually, actually, he hadn't posted it. He had sent me a message with his number because I was curious and I called him on Facebook messenger.
00:06:11
Speaker
And, um, Around that time, i had been working my way up in dose, but I didn't want to tell anybody I was working with mushrooms because I was still a teenager. and I was a teenager studying astrophysics at a at an accredited university at SMU. I was still a teenager.
00:06:29
Speaker
and um you know I was about my sophomore year of college that I decided give him a call and'd be like, Why aren't you talking about this? I had taken 16 dried grams and some Syrian root, and I was having an experience in the, ah what we would call kind of the state of particle consciousness. We'll just call it that. vi ah The state of expanded awareness, where you can perceive the holographic nature of the universe. I was there, and I asked him why he wasn't talking about it.
00:07:04
Speaker
And he said, call me when you come down. And it just became a ah friendship after that. ah with Me telling him about my crazy wild experiences and him making commentary on it, potentially sometimes giving me things to research and look into deeper. And i would go and check it out. You know, like one time i I wrote an essay for him and he had me looking up the ah the Emerald tablets.
00:07:32
Speaker
You know, another time. um looking into Cygnus and the the green ray of Cygnus as it's related to Meonia, the anagram, um meaning I am one, you know, um and pertinence to certain stones he was working with. And so he had his own research. I had my own research.
00:07:56
Speaker
But we we enjoyed talking about high-dose journeys because a lot of times, If I was going in on a Saturday, I'd call him up and say, when when are you going in He'd say, I'm going in next Saturday. And then I'd sync up my um my calendar and I would reach in the freezer, get my mushrooms and go in with him.
00:08:13
Speaker
And he was halfway across the world. And sometimes our trips would overlap. I'd see him go in one direction. I'd be like, I'm not going over there. I'm to stay right here. Yeah.
00:08:24
Speaker
And so what's interesting is ah the ability for people who work at a high dose level to perceive the other person, even if they're not in the same room, just based on dose. you know And a lot of people are coming out and saying, well, there's so much variance between body size and how the suicide is metabolized.
00:08:47
Speaker
Yeah. Most of us know that if you take 15 grams and give it to like a guy who's six foot two, he might not trip as hard as somebody who's on 16 grams, ah who's five foot one, but it's still 16 grams.
00:09:03
Speaker
it doesn't matter what size you are, it's still a high dose compared to, you know, what most people are used to, two grams, three grams, four grams. And a lot people will take five grams of a really strong mushroom and get terrified. And I'm like, don't do that.
00:09:16
Speaker
You know, what he taught was about taking your time and really intentionally starting from one gram, three grams, five grams, seven grams to master those levels. And to master those levels, he didn't just do it in a year.
00:09:29
Speaker
lot of people are just jumping into it, taking three grams of mushrooms and then say, oh, I think I'm ready for a high dose because I can handle my mushrooms. You're not. Like for a martial artist who's used to practicing and going in again and again and again under different circumstances, under different pressures and emotional states, yeah he was well practiced. Yeah.
00:09:53
Speaker
for decades. And that's not something that level of dedication is not what most of the authors and people who are ah pontificating about magic mushroom use are actually doing. They're taking, you know, a high dose once or even five grams a couple of times and then saying that they know the psychedelic experience. And the truth is Babu Kalindi uh always made himself uh a symbol someone who was continuously doing the work getting gaining greater and greater wisdom uh and bringing that back into this reality through his arts through his martial arts through his fighting craft and through his uh uh exceptional world-renowned ability uh and martial arts tradition um
00:10:39
Speaker
he wasn't just using it to get high he was utilizing it for making his family stronger for meeting his children before they were even born and bringing them back into this dimension he was a dedicated psychonaut but even more he was a family he was a family person And i he believed that the mushroom was utilized by all these different ancient traditions for various modalities of spiritual work. And he encouraged people, no matter what background, but what religious belief, from Wicca to Islam ah to Christianity, if they had a foundation of belief, um, They could use the mushroom for working with prayer or exploration or even ah for meditation for enlightenment. He believed that the mushroom was a quintessential tool for spiritual exploration.
00:11:33
Speaker
I'm glad you brought up the fact that being a martial artist has a great impact on your ability to withstand high doses and to sort of quote unquote survive in what Kalindi called the realms of legend. So can you talk a little bit more about the relationship between martial arts, even dance and high dose psilocybin use?
00:11:58
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely. And so he would teach that the martial arts dance, the circle dance that he would do as performed on different videos, you can look up Kalindi Iyi, martial arts dance, and his son, Ramasu Iyi, Baba Ramasu, is continuing his legacy and really carrying the torch around of everything. He's the one that you should interview next to talk about the martial science even more because I'm an outsider. I, I practice martial arts with the Tamarian Institute, but very minimally. And so um as far as it is my understanding though, in Africa, young men and women were taught certain dances, certain many times orisha dance, ah different dances that were,
00:12:44
Speaker
um invoking specific ah natural natural deities or in polytheistic animism call that the personification of god within these natural elements like oya and shango etc there are different warrior dances that are taught um but they are not taught as warrior dances first it's just a dance and the circle dance is the dance of the universe it's the g You know, that that's the the cosmos in motion.
00:13:12
Speaker
That is one of the oldest dances and ah ah the Temerian dance. And um this dance ah is making yourself like the center of the cosmos and it has various layer layers and parts of motion.
00:13:28
Speaker
And I won't get too deep into that because the dance is taught and then the people who are really good at the dance, the children who are really good at the dance, eventually learn how to weaponize the and fight utilizing that dance in a relaxed form because they're already so used to moving in this way that eventually um they're taught how to weaponize it, how to fight with that ah dance, how to grapple, how to hook, um how to how to you know knock somebody out, how how to break an arm. with all of the all of the martial arts are inside of the dance. And so, you know, what he also taught was with the mushroom, the martial arts dance and martial arts was also for combat inside of the psychedelic experience with otherworldly entities. There's martial arts deal
00:14:15
Speaker
with entities that have two heads and six tails and stuff of that nature. You know, that's where the legendary aspect kemp comes into play is preparing yourself to experience something scary, you know? And that's where a lot of people draw the line with psychedelics. they like, I'm doing this for therapy and my anxiety only. I don't want to see anything that could potentially make me poop my pants.
00:14:37
Speaker
you know And the beautiful thing about what Kalindi taught was that he was preparing people to encounter the unknown and to grapple with fear and grapple with their own insecurities and their own internal demons in such a way that they could actually overcome things rather than perpetuating the norm of...
00:14:55
Speaker
um You know a pacification of anything that's not love and light, anything that's not love and light in the psychedelic community is considered generally kind of taboo. And so, you know, I appreciate how real he was. And I
Psychedelics and Societal Change
00:15:08
Speaker
still appreciate because there have been very few people to step up and say, the point of this isn't to make ourselves comfortable. The point of this is to make ourselves uncomfortable so we can change, so that we can evolve.
00:15:19
Speaker
you know You're not going to evolve or change when the conditions for you to be the same person as you are right now are still you know being perpetuated. You're going to change when there's pain. you're going to change when there's anxiety. You're going to change sometimes when you've lost a loved one you know and and and you're overcome with grief.
00:15:39
Speaker
And you've got to make that decision to start over, you know, and really move on to change your life. And that's what people in America are going through right now since, you know, he died at the peak of COVID.
00:15:51
Speaker
You know, there's no telling what he would have said about COVID, you know, as an entity, you know, or a spiritual ah aspect of our experience here, the plague. What do we do when almost everyone we love or someone that we we love has lost somebody?
00:16:08
Speaker
you know, and now the new norm is you could die in your twenties of some random, like cold, like sick sickness, you know, just because the respirator didn't work or, or the hospital was packed and you couldn't get it in at a time. You know, we've had to adjust to this change and psychedelics are designed to be disruptive and to help us to disrupt our old patterns and change, you know, um you Many researchers have even described the neuronal pathways in our brains like a ski slope. you know Going down an alternative ski slope that hasn't been s skied on before is opening up a whole new set of neurological pathways that never would have had a chance to be explored had your default mode network not shut down temporarily enough for your brain to start forming new neural pathways that are thinking completely alternative and new, fresh pathways.
00:17:02
Speaker
ways of thinking, you know, and um I respect that. I respect that everything is change, you know, so Yeah, and you bring up COVID. um I've heard people um talk about how they were able to go into these high dose realms and like confront COVID, whether that's the archetype of the plague or what that might be. Can you talk a little bit about that?
00:17:30
Speaker
Well, a lot of what, Kalindi, you spoke about was infraparticle intelligence. Now, the problem with infraparticle intelligence is that most of the people who think of particles think of just standard model physics. They think about theoretical physics or quantum physics. And the problem is that Western physics does not have room for awareness to exist in a particle dimension.
00:17:52
Speaker
Now, It takes for us to put on a whole new set of glasses, a whole new set of bifocals. You got your bifocals on. Imagine if you if the only set of bifocals you had was plus two, but reality was like at a plus seven, right? Yeah.
00:18:10
Speaker
So you're looking at reality and you're seeing the rough outline of things. And you know that, you know, the computers over there, the desks over there, you know, words have to be this big for you to see them.
00:18:21
Speaker
And then all of a sudden you adjust or, or this small for you to see and all of a sudden you adjust to the right direction. bifocals. And it's like of getting vertigo at first, you're seeing so much more of what's actually there. You know, that's how I compare taking a high dose mushroom trip is it's like putting a whole different lens on your reality, that's going to require you to relearn what rules about reality you made to be true in your mind.
00:18:49
Speaker
You know, and for me, that is dealing with non-duality. What Kalindi talked about was really talking about the ancient roots of ah physics and other traditions outside of the West. He was talking about the Bhagavad Gita a lot. He was talking about the Yogic Sutras of Patanjali. He was talking about the Rig Vida.
00:19:06
Speaker
you've got to understand that in Hindu and Vedic tradition, they they have their own exploration of the known universe that makes our Western explanation look somewhat weak. you know If you read the Upanishads, their explanation for death, life, and birth and reincarnation is so incredibly detailed. And every aspect of it is so incredibly well thought out that I find it hard to believe that theoretical physics ended up getting based on Plutonian ideas and um
00:19:37
Speaker
i this 900 BCE Greco-Roman ideas about the standard model being separate from spirituality altogether, I feel like it more of a political statement than an actual observation of the known universe, because up until that point, zero hadn't even been invented yet, really. Zero was created as a spiritual, from from from a religious standpoint, almost. Zero also being non-existent not truly existent the idea of zero is a spiritual concept of the fact that something can be nothing but quantum physics has proven that there's a quantum foam the smaller and smaller and smaller you go there's even smaller and smaller and smaller things there's really no literal nothing to exist you know
00:20:26
Speaker
And so for nothing to exist, something has to be empty. And this emptiness that we hear talked about Buddhism or and Taoism isn't a literal emptiness.
00:20:40
Speaker
It's really more of a ah pointing to the fact that The smaller and smaller levels of reality contain something, but that something is everywhere and therefore is also nothing at the same time, this infinite and nothing concept.
Ancient Philosophies and Mushroom Use
00:20:55
Speaker
In Aztec philosophy, you have Teotl, which embodies that infinite and nothing concept.
00:21:01
Speaker
you know And so when you talk about the mushroom being called tionanakotl, that is literally meaning the flesh of the gods, but gods is not a proper translation because that's how in duality we we assume gods must mean multiple beings separate, right?
00:21:18
Speaker
But the Aztecs are polytheistic animists, you know, in that in that regard. And they're looking at things from the perspective that everything is teotl, and therefore no thing is teotl. But the no thing is loaded because it's not literally nothing. You just can't point to one thing and say that's God, you know.
00:21:40
Speaker
everything is also made of the same stuff. That's also Teotl. And it it doesn't have its um doesn't have a personality that's sitting there plotting the scheme of the fall of humanity or anything like that. That's the Aztecs. And so you have that similar force in Hinduism. And in Kashmiri Shaivism, for instance, you have Siva. you know And in classical Vedic Hinduism, you have Brahma, Krishna, Vishnu, Shiva, Shakti, you know, you have these different forces are different personifications of the supreme, but they're personifications of, of aspects of reality as well, like Shiva, sometimes can compare to a proton molecule, you know, being transforming everything, destroying everything at the same time, but empty, but
00:22:35
Speaker
also having a neutron and an electron, Brahma and Vishnu as well, the creator being a neutron that gives everything mass, Shiva being the transforming agent, the proton. And then you have the free electron that gives everything energy. you know And so studying these traditions, you find out that there are particle physics that include a divine person personification and so when he started talking about SIPI which is a s searchf search for infraparticle intelligence instead of SEPI search for extraterrestrial intelligence um but he
00:23:17
Speaker
he what talk about the celestial generals like Krishna talking to Arjuna and um these supreme personalities of the Godhead that exist inside of the mushroom experience. um He also referred to them as like the cosmic generals, so to speak. And so a lot of his experience was exploring these divine realms of consciousness that exist all around us and also inside of us, but he was tapping into something much, much, much, much much deeper, orders of magnitude smaller and more powerful than what 90% of people and their trips will ever encounter or talk about because they're not taking a high dose.
00:24:02
Speaker
And so when he talks, when people talk about like grappling with COVID, et cetera, you're also going down from the macro smaller and smaller and smaller orders of magnitude. It's like, honey, I shrunk the kids mushrooms edition. You know, i love that.
00:24:20
Speaker
And so you're not necessarily exploring anything outside of yourself, per se, when you do that, because, ah you know, it's even discussed in certain, in certain texts that the mystic heart inside of the human heart, if you look at the structure of the human heart, looks like an infinity symbol.
00:24:37
Speaker
you know, and ah there's a helical geometry, like it looks like a closed lotus bud when you when you look at it just as one piece. and then when you unfurl it, and tear it apart, you have ah one ventricle, and then you have an exit ventricle, but it's always shown kind of twisted like this when they unfurl a human heart. Have you seen you ever seen a human heart like taken apart? i have not. No.
00:25:01
Speaker
<unk>s It's really fascinating because then you can see like all of the the different um toroidal structures and helical structures that are inside of the human heart. And there are all also 5H2A receptors in the human heart. Did you know that?
00:25:15
Speaker
Yes. And so you can literally be... Your heart can literally be tripping with you with your brain and other organs that have serotonin receptors.
00:25:26
Speaker
um And author Tom Lane brought up the the discussion that many of the Aztecs never just chewed and swallowed the mushroom. Like us in the West, we're just trying to get the taste out our mouths. But the Aztecs were sublingually and bucally chewing and masticating that mushroom with honey. until they could absorb it through their cheeks, absorb it under their tongue, roof of their mouth. And when you bucally administer drugs, it goes directly into your bloodstream many times. And so that's why the mucous membrane is so important.
00:25:55
Speaker
Like sub sub um sublingual application of drug drugs are very potent many times because of that relationship. And so... Chewing the mushroom sublingually or bucally with honey glucose to carry the psilocybin directly into the bloodstream means that there are different areas in the mouth that correspond to different organs. And so chewing chewing the mushroom sublingually and bucally means you're going send some psilocybin to your spinal cord, some psilocybin to your heart, some directly to your brain. You know, it's to go to different areas depending on your cheeks, top of your mouth, et cetera, what area of mucous membrane is exposed.
00:26:33
Speaker
And so when you do it that way, that's when you have to go like, what is a high dose? Because have I ever been getting all of the psilocybin out of the mushroom? You know, you can chew one mushroom, one single mushroom like that and feel potentially like you took like a really crazy dose, you know, and then also people doing the tea, you know, a lot of people are trying to extract the psilocybin with the tea.
00:26:58
Speaker
But the problem is we don't have any standardization. And even people who have test results for each strain know that one mushroom to another mushroom can vary 40 times. Unless you just grind it all into a powder and test it, which a lot of people are doing. But that takes away from the experience of chewing it.
00:27:15
Speaker
And Kalindi always emphasized chewing the mushroom, no matter how disgusting you think it might taste, as a ritual, as as an experience to respect the mushroom as well. And... um I personally ah probably would like to chew it, chew it whole, or at least chew it in pieces with honey. That's my hybrid way, kind of Tom Lane's way and Kalindi's way together.
00:27:40
Speaker
um And then I don't swallow it until basically there's nothing left but mush, you know? And um I can feel the come up before I i ever swallow it.
00:27:52
Speaker
That's how quickly it comes on. And... um Doing it that way, it's much easier to tell where you're at in your journey. And so you can work your way up to a dose where you're like, you know what?
00:28:05
Speaker
I'm good. i can't go beyond this point. And that's okay for right now. I need to do the work that's right here in front of me. And if you do that work, then the next time you take a trip, Whatever emotional or psychological work gets in the way of you moving from the thinking mind into the chamber of the heart where you can access this infinite toroidal loop of energy. Once you get out of your quote unquote head, this is what like I think they call it the heart sutra, Prajnaparamita. Once you clear out the five aggregates of consciousness, the the intuition that you think something's going to go wrong or or right, or you're attached to an outcome, the emotional instability, the senses that tell you that your gas is going to kill you or something.
00:28:52
Speaker
um um Once you get past those aggregates of consciousness that keep you from the infinite, then it's like you move into a different space of exploration. That space of exploration allows you to travel through this vortex, you know, into what I consider to be like the infinite or unknown.
00:29:18
Speaker
And Glendi had a great amount of things to say about traveling or raising the sails, sailing the ship, et cetera. of this process.
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah, as we were talking about before we started recording, there's only so far you can get with the Terence McKenna's of the world or a lot of these people who are writing about psychedelics now in the mainstream.
00:29:44
Speaker
um And a lot of these ideas, especially the non-dual ideas, um they're very hard for people to grasp who haven't been introduced to a lot of these ancient texts.
00:29:56
Speaker
um So It's interesting. You bring up this ingestion method. Is this what Maria Sabina was sort of doing when she would say that she eat... Not sort of. She would give people only two mushrooms, right? Two by two. Yeah, two by two and two eat them with honey. And she would smudge it with copal. And that even the smudging of copal has a part, a ritual part in the ceremony of the veladas because the copal has antibacterial aspects to it. So you're literally like kind sanitizing these mushrooms that are growing on cow dung. with the copal and it's and improving the flavor.
00:30:31
Speaker
And it's also relaxing your body. has anti-anxiety benefits as well as burning copal in in your space when you're doing a mushroom. Yes, that that's part
Traditional and Modern Practices
00:30:41
Speaker
of it. the The little children or the little mushrooms, she would call them, los niños de jangos, she had a relationship with them and could speak to the divine aspect of them through Mother Mary, through Jesus Christ, through all of her saints that she had around her, to ask for specific blessings and abilities, you know, when she would speak in her veladas. I am the woman who sees. I am the woman who flies. I am the the airplane woman or the airline woman. I am the time woman. you know i She would use the the power of I am to shift her awareness to specific places and um utilize her perspective in those places to investigate the sickness of the person that she was healing.
00:31:30
Speaker
And that is a that is a skill, unlike any other, you know, to be able to ride the divine wave and inquire directly with the source of all knowledge, like what is going on with this person who's sick? How do I help them?
00:31:46
Speaker
What do they need to let go of? How will they heal? She was a master healer, quaderna. and priestess, you know, I feel like priestess is also a valid term, because what she was doing was being kind of a prayer warrior or prayer intercessor with the mushroom, you know, and a lot of people criticize her and say, well, all she did for her ceremonies is smoke a cigarette, clap three times and play pray to Jesus. That's what some ah someone said on a podcast, he was Paul statements. And I was kind of upset, because I was like,
00:32:16
Speaker
The complexity of her ceremonies was not in her clapping three times or praying to Jesus. It was in her divine connection, you know, and her ability to travel through that awareness into another person's physical body to witness what was going on that needed to heal.
00:32:36
Speaker
You know, and I think that's where Western philosophy and indigenous and traditional studies need to like collaborate. There needs to be a bridge that's made so that we can both agree, like you may not have the language or the academic background study to actually know what's happening in this woman's ceremony, but we can, we can, we can assure you that something real is happening. oh And I think mushrooms and psychedelics are the way to bridge the gap between science and or what we consider science and the spiritual nature of the traditions of other cultures.
00:33:11
Speaker
I'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsor for today's show. This podcast is partnering with Maestro Hamilton, Souther, and Blue Morpho. As many of you know, we talk about psychedelics quite a bit on this show. And if you'd like to take your personal practice or a facilitation practice to the next level, Hamilton is our master shaman.
00:33:32
Speaker
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Research and Cultural Studies
00:33:36
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:34:12
Speaker
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00:34:31
Speaker
Perfect for dropping in or meditating. Thank you to Hamilton Souther and to Blue Morpho. And now let's get back to the show. Yes, and I think that's where studies need to be done beyond like the Western psychological model for anxiety and depression. I think you know that we're going the right direction and doing EEGs on mumps and seeing what their brainwaves are doing when they enter these super subtle states of consciousness. you know But we can't expect to just see it on a brain level because we're not just thinking with our brains. We're thinking with our whole body. Emotional intelligence is also a part of that thinking process, and that's not going to show up on a CAT scan.
00:35:09
Speaker
you know, belief isn't going to show up, ah you know, the the way that we think, you know, because it has more moving pieces and more moving parts. And so we have to hybridize our research techniques and take people at their word.
00:35:25
Speaker
If we take these ancient traditions at their word, like James Maffey says from Aztec philosophy, if we take indigenous people at their word, then the amount of research that could come through into the scientific community that can be studied and researched and finding novel ways to validate their claims as more than just objective experiences. We're finding out more and more there's really no such thing as a truly objective experience. There's causality as a part of it. There are there are emotional states. there are There are physiological and psychological states. And there are experiences that people have utilizing psilocybin that link to other people's experiences. It's just we don't have a wide enough study group to clearly say,
00:36:12
Speaker
50% of these people who come from this cultural background had this experience, and this is connected to their tradition, and here's why. We don't have that right now. And so I created a school for people who just want to study that kind of thing to try and bring together independent researchers and civilian scientists and PhDs and botanists who would never otherwise maybe sit in the same classroom together to say, okay,
00:36:37
Speaker
We're going to study what these texts actually say about mushroom use. And we're also going to dig in a little deeper into the cryptic way that mushroom use is oftentimes spoken about mystically.
00:36:50
Speaker
And we're going to discuss, we're going to discuss what we feel about this and see, okay, is there a chance that this really has a deeper connection to a group of experiences that we all share as a part of taking these mushrooms or experiencing these mushrooms, like these underworld themes or these rebirth themes or these even conquering fear or these heroic themes that we see? Is there a pattern that inside of them? And if so, what does it teach us about self? What does it teach us about the expansion or the possibility of expanded awareness, leading to a greater fulfillment of self? If you decide that you're going to trip and vibrate the antenna on the psilocybin molecule until you become the Brahmin and the Atman, and now you're God, and then you have to come back to human life, and you're like, oh, man, I miss being God.
00:37:43
Speaker
then you're not really able to integrate the context in which mushrooms were taken by the Vedics because there are levels and stages of realization that you just can't skip over so that when you come back, you're fully integrated and embodied in the divine aspects of your own humanity rather than reaching and trying to achieve the stars, you know, too early.
00:38:06
Speaker
so it has chambers I love that. You know, the divine aspect of your own humanity. That's I think that's a really difficult concept for people to grasp. Why do you think that is?
00:38:20
Speaker
i think it's because we've been taught for so long that God is something that's so big and so powerful and it's always right all the time and it doesn't make mistakes. And I think that is a lie.
00:38:30
Speaker
I think that's a lie that we tell ourselves kind of subconsciously that we think that God is somehow separate from the human. Yeah. you know I think um this is why I want to go to University of Arizona and also study consciousness and state of matter research. Because what I really think is that when people go through therapy, et cetera, what's really happening is they're reframing the narrative in their heads about what happened that maybe hurt them or caused them stress and trauma. And they realize that led up to one thing. And you no one can agree that maybe it benefited them or even that they feel happy about it, but it led to this moment. Yeah.
00:39:05
Speaker
That's what everyone can agree on is that led to right now. And because I exist right now, and I'm okay right now, you know, I'm grateful. I'm grateful for what I've learned, and they start taking apart their memories, and start telling the narrative in a way that helps somebody like themselves or somebody else. you know And i think that's where you know many scientists have been so atheistic for so long that when we think about divine humanity, there's no room for divine humanity and a standard model of physics that doesn't even speak about the intelligence of the mechanics of creation. And so if we don't learn about the mechanics of creation being ontologically divine, having a divine experience themselves, then how can we relate to that in our own humanity, except outside of ourselves, where we create this archetype of divinity that's supremely more better, more higher, more more better. That's what one of my best friends used to say.
00:40:03
Speaker
And because it's more higher and more better, we have to worship and it and it must have mercy on us. And that's that. But even like the Bible and many other religious texts, the Rig Vida, the Bhagavad Gita, they all point to us being children of the divine and made in its image. And so if we're truly made in its image, how can we truly ever be separate from the creator?
00:40:26
Speaker
you know And so if the creator was never born, never died, and self-created, and it's been there infinitely, like the Aztecs suggest, then that means that whatever is in creation is the creator creating parts of itself into regular, ordinary existence. And so we've been spat out here in and this moment, at this time, in this place, as a part of creation expressing itself. Yeah.
00:40:53
Speaker
You know, that's that's that's the teodolization. That's the Aztec philosophical version. And then if you study the Vedic literature, you find out that, you know,
00:41:04
Speaker
part and parcel, your spirit belongs to this this greater spirit, this Brahman. And when you say like Aum and you vibrate Aum, you're shooting your eyesoul or your awareness into the body of this great being consciously. Like you're using Aum to stretch like an invisible arrow out and then shoot yourself into the body of the great Brahman, you know? And it says even...
00:41:31
Speaker
even in in certain other quotes, that the creator is in the speech of ah, the sound of creation. So when we even speak the sound of creation, the creator is inside of that. So I guess the creator is a vibration and a frequency and then also some sort of i um um hidden mechanic inside of the expression of our external and internal realities simultaneously. And so I'm starting to reorganize the way that I teach physics, you know, because I used to try and fit psychedelics into a standard model of physics, you know, but I couldn't, it was just not possible. Because the second you get beyond the biological explanations for certain psychological events, or the psychological explanations for certain neurological events, you
00:42:23
Speaker
it doesn't go deeper than that. I needed to go into the particle explanations for quantum entanglement and synchronicity. And modern physics was not giving me that ability. And so...
00:42:37
Speaker
My goal is to say, okay, well, you know what will? Studying these ancient traditions, that will give me a lens through which I can vicariously look at reality the way that these people who were working with mushrooms in this specific time period looked at reality based on their experiences of exploring the known universe. And I think that it deserves its own respect as a theoretical form of anthropological physics.
00:43:03
Speaker
you know Because we got theoretical physics over here, but it's only from a certain cultural viewpoint in a certain period of time, and it's been built upon for hundreds and hundreds of years. But we have thousands and thousands of years.
00:43:17
Speaker
worth of experiential data to pull from that's hidden inside of these text texts and scriptures, etc. From the Vedics, from the Aztecs, from the African peoples even. And we don't respect those nearly as much as the Western versions. And I think that that's, think it could use improvement.
00:43:36
Speaker
To say the least, it could use improvement. And it does seem that the reason why you know the cultures of the West have just completely disregarded all of these spiritual teachings, at least to me, it's because of the the typical mechanisms of control that we have to operate under in these societies. Because they don't want you thinking for yourself. They don't want you to actually approach the mystery for what it is. They want you to ah to just take one step forward in the way that they tell you to. And then this is the evidence that you have. And this is as far as you can go. And they they limit their own scientists. And it's it's really sad because the true healing of cultures, of societies really does come from this identification or feeling of
00:44:22
Speaker
And maybe merging with the divine is the wrong way to put it. But when you use a psychedelic on a deep enough level and you feel the nature of yourself yeah and you feel the divine nature of yourself, that's where the true healing is. Because you can always go to a psychological you know researcher and they can tell you you know what's wrong with you and your problems and this and that. And psychedelics can help you at lower doses to even identify some of those things. But the real magic is in those deeper doses when you can really feel the divine within yourself.
00:44:56
Speaker
Bob O'Kalundi called this self-actualization. And like it's not even a merging of divine for me personally because it was already there. it didn't come. It didn't go anywhere.
00:45:08
Speaker
I just arrived. I was like, oh I'm here. you know, I've always been here. I've always been one. i've always been creating. This was on purpose, you know, and it's that arrival, I think, at the actualness of our divinity that liberates people from this mental slavery that, oh my gosh, every single moment that I exist, eat, breathe, see, all of it is divine.
00:45:38
Speaker
Inherently. Yes, yes, an arrival. I like that much, much better. It reminds me of something that I heard Ram Dass say. He was giving a lecture and he said that he would look out into the crowd and you know he'd be telling them all of these beautifully divine and spiritual teachings and he would see them all nod.
00:45:57
Speaker
like I believe you. And he's thinking to them, he's thinking like, they already know what I'm telling them because we do inherently, we already know these things. We just have to sometimes have tools to break us out of our current paradigms in order to arrive, as you said.
00:46:15
Speaker
And the problem with arrival for many people is that many people make a pit stop on the way there.
Integrating Psychedelic Experiences
00:46:23
Speaker
They make a pit stop at all.
00:46:27
Speaker
Or they make a pit stop at, look at me. And either one distract from the presence of inner awareness, you know? Because if you're saying, look at me, I'm divine, you're still telling someone else to witness you. You're not witnessing you, you know? And if you stop at awe, you're still saying, it's divine, and still thinking it's separate from you. And that's not, it's also an illusion. Yeah.
00:46:53
Speaker
so You know, the key is to go home all the way. And I think because it lacks fanfare and because it lacks congratulations and because it lacks the validation of being seen and and celebrated by anybody else but you, you know, many people say, well, that can't be what it is.
00:47:15
Speaker
You know, I can't be this. That was just a trip. And then they self-doubt and cover it back up and bury it. And it's sad because it was real. It's just there's not very many people out there encouraging people to sit in the realness and appreciate the realness.
00:47:36
Speaker
every single day outside of their trips. They're they're taught that that realness is a temporary moment. And now that you've you've had it, you need to learn from it and integrate it. But part of integrating it is moment to moment, second by second appreciation of it, rather than just saying, this is a separate thing from everything else you experience in life. The ancients didn't treat it as a separate event. It was just a part of life.
00:48:05
Speaker
And this is where the medical model really kind of bothers me is that it's it's like almost too scientific. It's too much as if, as you said, you you take the substance, you have the experience, and then you have to integrate this thing into your life as opposed to- Stool.
00:48:23
Speaker
I mean, yeah, yeah. It's very difficult thing because you're trying to put something into a box that it doesn't fit. It doesn't fit inside it. It is the box. Yeah. It is the box. It's the printer. It's, you know, that's not a word.
00:48:42
Speaker
it's It's a depositor, depositeer. I don't know. um
00:48:49
Speaker
I can't stress enough how when people don't know what's happening, they'll try to make up a story.
00:48:57
Speaker
And I think the problem with the Western model is a lot of people who are doing psychedelics and linked to the Western model don't have very many experiences, not deeper experiences. They've taken it, taken a tourist dose. They feel like they've done their due diligence because they had the experience. They had the experience where they were being watched by somebody else. And they're probably on edge thinking, i hope this is over soon.
00:49:20
Speaker
maybe had a fun breakthrough, but did not take it seriously because of their own pathology, because of their own ah mapping of their inner world, until that map shatters and breaks completely, they're going to keep going in the same loop of ego, consciousness, superego, unconscious, and they're going to try to fit whatever they experience into some of those categories. And the experience is so far beyond categorical.
00:49:48
Speaker
at high dose, there's no way to, you know, even if you try to build a house to house divine energy n or divine insight n you're not gonna be able keep any of it in the house because it's formless. It doesn't have form. And the more times you try to solidify it into this form in your head or take pieces of it and say, look, I broke off a piece. This is what I experienced. You don't have the words or the context to make it make any sense to anyone outside of yourself. and that's because it was just for you. it was for your, was for your enjoyment, i was for your protection or your, your elevation in that moment. And i think that's where, you know, I really appreciate Ram Dass and other spiritual elders who really point to the present as the answer, because inside of the present, you're, you never went anywhere.
00:50:38
Speaker
You never left, you never came. You know, and so when you die if you really are grounded in the awareness of the present, even when you die, you didn't leave or go anywhere. You're still just present, you know, and you're given a different form physically, but because you don't identify with the body or the mind, you didn't die.
00:51:02
Speaker
The presence never died. The awareness never died. Only the physical body changed. you know And that's why I think that Baba Ramassu is doing a lecture in Miami coming up on April 7th called like Dress Rehearsal for Death. And that's why I love like how Baba Kalindi and him put it, you know is that this is really kind of a dress rehearsal to get you prepared to quote-unquote die before you die, like the Sufis say. you know And when you when you die completely to this notion that you can just cross compartmentalize what's going on and explain it all away.
00:51:42
Speaker
When you leave room for the unexplainable, we're presently so we're pleasantly surprised that the unexplainable is very human.
00:51:53
Speaker
And it looks just like me and he brings back it it It brings back the idea of of dual versus non-dual. And when we try to describe these things and bring them back as teachings or lessons within the realm of the dual, it diminishes them. it it It takes away the accuracy of exactly what it is we're trying to describe.
00:52:13
Speaker
Right. And this is why Tom Lane's book, secret Sacred Mushroom Rituals and Ceremonies, I think it rubs people the wrong way because he's just so tired of hearing like Westerners like butcher like the Aztec philosophical experience that, you know, he's very clear that when the Aztecs were chewing ah the sacred blood flowers of the Quetzalcoatl, and becoming one with the breath, one with the divine breath embodied as Quetzalcoatl, you know, the diamond plumed feathered serpent, etc.
00:52:44
Speaker
You know, he he really wants to capture the experience for people. But the sad part is that until many people have the experience, they feel cut off from it. They feel like they're looking through a window at somebody's subjective psychological breakdown, and they don't really want anything to to do with, you know, trying it for themselves. But if they tried it for themselves, it's like that window becomes reality for them. It expands totally into just what it is. The experience of the breath is divine, you know, and at taking a high dose, when you take it, you know, like the Aztecs, you chew the mushroom thoroughly, you leave no trace behind your mouth.
00:53:27
Speaker
your awareness naturally is going to travel to your mouth. You're going to like, oh, I have an eye there. I'm looking at what's happening in my mouth. I'm feeling, looking. And it's no longer a physical seeing. It's a feeling seeing. You know, when you go into your heart, they call it a journey of the D.A. heart fight heart. When you release fear, it's like your heart is just on fire, but in a beautiful way, like a spiritual fire is in your heart because,
00:53:53
Speaker
You're no longer restrained. You're no longer being oppressed by this irrational fear that a lot of times overcomes us because of our life experiences and our past. In Aztec society, you couldn't be a warrior if you were afraid to walk out on the battlefield.
00:54:09
Speaker
And most of us, we're afraid to walk outside to go to our jobs sometimes just because of violence and neighborhood issues and, you know, or because we didn't take the trash out. Many people live in this hyper afraid world, you know, where, you know, agoraphobia is at an all time high. Like ever since we put the masks on, start hiding in our houses. So many people have just become like subtly agoraphobic, you know, and yeah.
00:54:36
Speaker
That's fine, but there's an alternative, you know? ah There's an alternative when it comes to realizing that you're going to attract what vibration you are depending on how you are also vibrating, is going to help you to become braver when you show up in a good way and you're really good on purpose, not just because you think it's the right thing to do, but because you want to treat others who are a part of this divine spirit the way you want to be treated, but you're coming from a place of authenticity, a lot of times people will surprise you by giving that vibration back to you in the most beautiful of ways. And some people call us manifestation. Some people call us attracting what you are. And I really don't have an answer as to what to call it.
00:55:21
Speaker
But based on non-duality, you know, the realization that you really, really, really, really are part of something that everyone is experiencing, you know, helps you to be more compassionate to others in this experience of learning, suffering, growing, death, birth ah type
Kalindi's Methods and Acacia's Invitation
00:55:41
Speaker
stuff. Because then you realize it's not just you.
00:55:44
Speaker
Everybody's got to go through it. It's cause just as confusing for everybody. We're all on the same level here. Let's be as compassionate as possible to each other while we're experiencing this. you know, and help to encourage each other in the process. And it it leads to like a deeper sense of ethical moral duty, I think, to the collective, to the collective we. Yeah.
00:56:07
Speaker
Yeah, I love the message. And as we begin to sort of approach an hour here, the last topic that I wanted to ask you about, which is something that has always interested me about Glindy's teachings, have been transdimensional crystals. Now, he spoke of these as both weapons that you use within the realms of legend, as well as his ability to download and store maps inside of them. Can you sort of explain what these crystals are and how this works?
00:56:39
Speaker
Well, you know, what's interesting is, you know, you have a lot six-site symmetry in an ordinary quartz crystal here. I'll pull out a quartz crystal for you. So you see this crystal here, you know, it's a thin little crystal, you know, it has these etchings on the side of it right here, right right along this panel.
00:57:00
Speaker
Now, when I first got a transdimensional crystal from him, i you know I tried to do the typical woke meditation stuff. Om. Maybe if I om loud enough and I tap it on my forehead, my third eye will pop like in like in the chakra pictures and I'll have a spontaneous kundalini awakening or something and and it no, it wasn't doing the thing.
00:57:25
Speaker
And so part of this non-dual Realization happens when you look at the crystal and all of a sudden you start to perceive the vibration of the molecules of the crystal. It's so six sided bural geometry.
00:57:44
Speaker
You ever seen a quartz crystal under a microscope? I never have, actually, not in person. It's one of the most beautiful architectural works of art I've ever seen. It looks like it looks like a building. It's very stable. It has stories and like layers and levels. And it's structurally very stable.
00:58:02
Speaker
That's why ah you can put these in a clock and they'll they'll keep the frequency of time. you know These are very stable. They're used in laboratories, etc. Quartz crystal.
00:58:15
Speaker
And this quartz crystal, um i think this one is from the Himalayas, this one right here. These stones are 4.8 plus million years old in some cases, you know, sometimes a little younger, depending on what pocket you're digging out.
00:58:31
Speaker
And so in the process of crystallization and the length of time that it's been present here physically, the time and place of this object, the time place of this object means that they're inside of the molecules that this ma is made up of, if non-duality is true in this case,
00:58:50
Speaker
ah the um the molecules themselves have a story. they They were observing reality millions and millions and millions of years from the from the points that the elements were created and ah to the point that they crystallized to make this stone.
00:59:10
Speaker
And so when you hold these crystals on psilocybin mushrooms, And you focus your inner awareness, just like you can focus on your mouth or in your heart or in an organ, you can focus it inside the stone.
00:59:22
Speaker
You focus on an inclusion. That inclusion, the the particles that are self-healed inside of that, it's like capturing a snapshot of time or intelligence inside that inclusion.
00:59:36
Speaker
And what we found was that people who were able to focus on the crystal, focus their whole attention, During the trip, on this stone, the stone would sometimes reveal a face.
00:59:49
Speaker
And that face would communicate with the individual. And it would provide a platform for one to look into oneself. ah Self on a DNA level.
01:00:02
Speaker
Go into areas inside of the particle, inside the crystal are quantumly entangled with our physical energy. And travel. travel to different different locations and places multidimensionally.
01:00:17
Speaker
Because this is six-sided, if you notice, this is almost the exact shape, if I could put it up to the camera, of the psilocybin molecule. This is also six-sided.
01:00:29
Speaker
You know, and I think Dennis McKenna had said something about the antenna on the end of the molecule, it vibrating. Well, had you ever thought that maybe another dimension above this place, like in Carl Sagan's Flatland, you know, how you have the apple sitting on the piece of paper and the paper only perceives the bottom imprint of the apple.
01:00:51
Speaker
And then you you go up another dimension, you know, and it's
01:00:59
Speaker
Even ah the apple, unless you cut it in certain areas, you can't see the full part of the apple. That's kind of how this multidimensional thing works, is we can't see up to the next dimension, but when we...
01:01:15
Speaker
go there to that dimension, objects that have this six-sided geometry, including like um the piezoelectric nature of our our cells, etc., the psilocybin molecule, etc., they all start to vibrate on that density.
01:01:33
Speaker
and when they're vibrating on that density, you can travel the timeless essence of that molecule's history.
01:01:45
Speaker
And it's really interesting because the first time I activate my transmissional crystal, I was just staring at it. And then as I started staring at it, it asked me, what's the password? And so because i didn't put a password on it, I just thought it was ridiculous and kind of discounted it.
01:02:02
Speaker
And I realized that my mind was distracted. I kept running away from the answer. And i finally got my mind to stay focused and undistracted.
01:02:14
Speaker
And it asked me what the password is. And I just guessed, ah forgive everyone and you'll be forgiven. And when I did that, it's like a lot of information stored in my head just disappeared.
01:02:31
Speaker
you know And I was able to see very clearly into the stone. And the face of the stone opens up and basically like reveals the essential nature of reality itself, which is holographic.
01:02:48
Speaker
And so I'm looking at the crystal, like I'm perceiving spaces in between the structure of the crystal. And at voids space that that tiny little separation between the the molecules holding together the crystal and the molecules holding together myself.
01:03:07
Speaker
were perceived on a subtle level, like it looks like a holographic a haze around my hands and around the stone. And so when I would hold the stone at the speed of a thought, the thought would enter the submolecular and I was able to travel out into that visual space, like traveling on ah on a spaceship it was like starship enterprise you know like uh roll us out scotty you know and you you your whole house becomes like a part of that that warp spaceship and you're able to travel into that dimensional space that opens up it's like the vastness of awareness around us like looking from to the window right
01:03:54
Speaker
Imagine that the space in between molecules that hold together, all of which you see, open up and you travel through it to another place.
01:04:06
Speaker
That's what it was like. And I had never, ever, ever in my life taken tons of high doses, never had a trip like that. Never so clear, never so organized. And never was I able to control exactly where I went and how I conducted myself so easily. And I've worked with the transdimensional crystals ever since.
01:04:24
Speaker
And i was one of the biggest skeptics of the fact that there was even such a thing. I don't really feel like the crystal is transdimensional. I really feel like your focus and awareness is. And because your awareness exists on multiple levels, I think that the crystal just helps you to focus your on your awareness enough to ah to travel and to use the power of your mind to travel in awareness and as the observer rather than the other way around, your awareness following the mind.
01:04:53
Speaker
Amazing. Thank you for such a deep and wonderful explanation of that. And thank you for such deep such a deep and wonderful conversation, Acacia. This has been fantastic.
01:05:04
Speaker
Can you just share where people can find you if they want to contact you, if they want to take any of your courses or learn any more from you? Sure. At Acacia Lewis, A-C-A-C-E-A-L-E-W-I-S.
01:05:18
Speaker
And, um you know, also follow Baba Clendy's family members, you know, Mama Ayana E.Y. and Ramisu, Baba Ramisu E.Y. Akher Ramisu on Instagram. I also know a text message to say, I shouted you out, bro. um you know uh he's a huge inspiration he's really carrying the torch as far as the martial arts and mushrooms legacy goes and his work at um in in florida in miami and uh you know if you want to reach out to me just acacia lewis and acacia lewis.com and if you want to take my class um
01:05:55
Speaker
I don't think I really have very many openings left by the time this probably airs, but if the class is still going on, April 15th through May 15th is a Transdimensional Crystal Summer Camp where you can try these out with guidance and it'll help you find the right kind of stone, the right kind of clarity, the right kind of texture that you want ideally to use as a tool.
01:06:18
Speaker
And yeah, teach teach you how how we do what we do.
01:06:24
Speaker
Amazing. Yeah, you know, I think we could talk about this stuff for hours and hours. And I think we should definitely continue this conversation and and speak again if you're willing to. I'm absolutely willing to. Thank you so much for having me.