Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Swakuho podcast.
Speaker: As always, I'm your host, JC Stoner.
Speaker: Today is our first book club where I'm joined by Swakuho members who all read the same book, and we're going to work through some tangible takeaways on incorporating the book content into our jobs.
Speaker: The book we are discussing today is The Power of Moments, Why Certain Experiences Have Extraordinary Impact by Chip and Dan Heath, which focuses on individual moments instead of overall experiences.
Speaker: The book does an excellent job categorizing moments into four easily identifiable groups and then following up on how to construct each type of moment for different outcomes.
Speaker: Most importantly, the book features plenty of tangible examples from various contexts that can easily be actualized in the college housing experience for both staff and students, which our guests today will illustrate.
Speaker: Our guests today happen to be two of my favorite people, Apefa Cooper and Maddie Reed, both of whom presented a program at Swakuho's 2020 annual conference based on the book we are discussing today.
Speaker: The title of their program was Using Elevated Moments to Facilitate a Culture of Care and Service.
Speaker: Their program was recognized as Top 5 Program that year.
Speaker: A link to their presentation will be in the show notes.
Speaker: Our first guest is Apefa Cooper, who recently began serving as an assistant general manager for American campus communities at Texas A&M University, Corpus Christi.
Speaker: She is originally from Ghana, West Africa, but currently calls Texas home.
Speaker: After living in Arlington, Texas, Apefa and her husband now live in Corpus Christi.
Speaker: Apefa enjoys DIY projects and hopes to renovate her future home soon.
Speaker: She has a huge heart for people and making them feel like they belong in the world.
Speaker: Apefa is learning to live loved and unapologetically through her faith and passion and is slowly figuring out life with her husband, Kyle, and her crazy dog, Leah.
Speaker: Apefa, welcome to the show.
Speaker: Thank you, JC, for having me.
Speaker: I'm super excited to be here.
Speaker: Our second guest is Maddie Reed.
Speaker: Maddie is a former hall director for Texas Christian University and now currently serves as executive assistant to the president at Pursuit Sales Solutions.
Speaker: Before working at TCU, she worked full time at the University of Texas at Arlington as a residence director while pursuing her master's degree in educational leadership and policy studies.
Speaker: She absolutely loves DFW and spending time with friends, family, and her fiance.
Speaker: Maddie, welcome to the show.
Speaker: Hi, thanks JC.
Speaker: So excited to be here.
Speaker: Thanks for having me.
Speaker: It's good to have you both on.
Speaker: So first things first, Maddie, I believe you are on call tonight.
Speaker: Is that correct?
Speaker: That is true.
Speaker: The life of a housing professional.
Speaker: So if we have any gaps or we hear a phone ring, we're just going to assume that you're taking care of business, right?
Speaker: Caring for our students, what we do best.
Speaker: Number one priority.
Speaker: And another fun fact is we used to all work together.
Speaker: Yes, the UTA days.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So let's start by telling our listeners, why did the power of moments initially pique your interest?
Speaker: Yeah, I can go first.
Speaker: I think for me, I and I was originally introduced to the book by UJC.
Speaker: Remember, you came and said, hey, this is book.
Speaker: And I think we can do a presentation on it.
Speaker: I think it was with our local UTA conference presentation.
Speaker: And so when I got the book and I was looking through it and then we talked about the presentation, I think that was really special for me.
Speaker: And it just reminded me of how I could make small moments and what I could do to really make small moments.
Speaker: So we'll talk a little bit more about it.
Speaker: But for me, as someone who dreams big, it was just a calm reminder for me that I didn't have to
Speaker: create build a castle i could just do small things to make meaningful moments and so um that's a really that's why i really like this book and went on to do another presentation with the with you both and yeah we're here doing this podcast so
Speaker: Yeah, I think for me, similar to a Puffa, I mean, JC recommended it to me.
Speaker: And when JC Stoner tells you to do something, you're going to do it.
Speaker: So that initially piqued my interest in the book.
Speaker: But then, you know, after reading the bio, learning more about what it covered, I just felt like
Speaker: you know, Pefa said, how do we make little things matter more in our everyday lives?
Speaker: We're in the business of caring for students and trying to make things more meaningful and be more intentional with the way that we support them.
Speaker: And I thought this seems like a great resource for me to use in my everyday life with people that I love, but also students that I love and care for, peers that I love and care for, and so on.
Speaker: Well, I'm just glad you both didn't say that I mandated you to read the book as some sort of authoritarian plug of professional development, which I'm sure it was.
Speaker: But the book I came across, it was just one of those things that really spoke to me also and probably one of the more impactful books that I'd read that –
Speaker: I was so apparently willing to share with lots of people.
Speaker: So I've shared with it with a number of people over the years.
Speaker: And I always it really speaks to me about the, you know, my current job at
Speaker: in housing operations about customer service.
Speaker: And I always talk about the customer service standpoint of like thinking about moments as investing goodwill into people.
Speaker: And yeah, things are going to go wrong and things happen and we'll get into some more of those.
Speaker: But if we invest enough goodwill and create enough meaningful moments that hopefully the, uh,
Speaker: The not so meaningful or the negative moments won't seem as dramatic as because they know there's a history of providing good moments.
Speaker: So, Matty, why don't you start by telling us about like the analogy of potholes and how that relates?
Speaker: Yeah, so there's this idea of customer service.
Speaker: And oftentimes, there's a lot of research that has been done.
Speaker: But, you know, we kind of feel that oftentimes, companies or organizations or universities think of fixing problems, or customer service is just fixing a pothole.
Speaker: And what we mean by that is that
Speaker: People can fix a pothole all day long, but that's not really going to make a difference in everyday life.
Speaker: If you fix a pothole on the road, someone's not going to drive on it the next day and think, oh my gosh, this has made my day so much better.
Speaker: This pothole was fixed.
Speaker: They're probably not even going to remember they drove over it the day before.
Speaker: And so really, it's just the matter of customer service typically is
Speaker: It's just fixing the negative.
Speaker: But what we discuss with this, what this book discusses and what we can do to take it a step further is really this concept of eliminating that pothole or that negative experience.
Speaker: And how do we then turn those positive experiences and elevate them to make it more memorable, more meaningful, and really where it overwhelms people instead of just whelming people by fixing a pothole?
Speaker: Like you don't go into a grocery store and get all excited about the lights working and like the floors being cleaned.
Speaker: Like those are just kind of expected, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The bare minimum.
Speaker: Like if we didn't have those things, sure, it'd be a negative experience.
Speaker: But yeah, you're right.
Speaker: We don't walk in there and go, oh, my goodness, what a great day.
Speaker: There's food on the shelves.
Speaker: Maybe at the start of COVID we did, but nowadays.
Speaker: Especially that toilet paper.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: the research showed that while most businesses and companies spend, I think, 80% of their effort trying to fix potholes among large conglomerates, there's actually nine times more financial value into elevating the positive moments.
Speaker: And we've seen this with, I think the example they use in the book was like Southwest Airlines, where they found like,
Speaker: You know, the example of wrapping the boring old safety instructions, like people who experienced that moment purchased a half flight more the following year or one and a half flights more, which equated to like enough $150 million or something, enough to buy a couple more planes.
Speaker: And, you know, I think we see that all the time.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So then let's then move on to this peak in principle.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so as we talked about, I think one of the things that we took away from this book is, yes, there are a series of moments.
Speaker: And we've already discussed there's so many things and so many experiences that we go through.
Speaker: But then there are just these particular moments that can
Speaker: really shape our experience and shape how we think about something.
Speaker: And the way I understood it was just the peaks and the peak end moments.
Speaker: And I think for me specifically, I don't remember all of my experiences, but I remember some certain moments.
Speaker: And from my introduction,
Speaker: I actually recently got this job with ACC at Texas A&M, and my last day at UTA was last week.
Speaker: And all throughout that week, I was just thinking a lot about the peak end moments and thinking through, okay, what were some things that really stood out to me?
Speaker: And then also for me, how can I leave my job as an RD at UTA?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: on a note where people are going to look back and say, okay, remember that last day or remember that last week of Apefa's week with us or remember how she did this.
Speaker: And so it really made me think a lot about just some of the things that have happened over the years, like three years at UTA.
Speaker: And what do I remember?
Speaker: I remember those peak end moments.
Speaker: I remember those moments.
Speaker: peaks and those positives.
Speaker: And then I also just remember, you know, the friends that I made and then the programs that I attended that really made that impact for me.
Speaker: And so, yeah, that's in general, that's really what the book was talking about when it talked about peak and principle and the peak and moments.
Speaker: I think about the peak end with residents who live with us and like, hey, we all provide these great experiences and think of like, ooh, these cool programs.
Speaker: I met all these great friends or those are the peaks.
Speaker: And then, oh, goodbye, bye-bye.
Speaker: Here's your bill for damages to your apartment.
Speaker: Like when you move out, it is just like, ooh, that doesn't feel so good if that's one of the things you're going to remember more than any of the other great things that happened along the way.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: And even one, I had one of my staff say this one time, and it didn't dawn on me at that time, but he was like, I actually have to pay for graduations.
Speaker: And, you know, of course, that's nothing because, you know, everyone doesn't really think about it.
Speaker: But he was like, why?
Speaker: I've worked.
Speaker: I've given them so much money all these four years and I have to pay for graduation.
Speaker: And it was the last thing that he had to do to, you know, wrap up his career.
Speaker: But it was it was just weird that, you know, that he said that.
Speaker: And I was like, actually, that that is a big big end moment and not so positive in that way, you know.
Speaker: Well, do you think about, I mean, we'll talk about commencement in a little bit, but you think about that.
Speaker: It's so crazy that...
Speaker: part of this is like, it's nobody's job to engineer moments, but let's like, if we just put our heads together, we could probably make graduation feel a little bit more like a memorable, like, oh, all the pomp and circumstance and like, oh, hey, now we're going to start asking you for graduation regalia, which is outrageous costs.
Speaker: And then, oh, by the way, the alumni associate is going to start calling you tomorrow begging for money.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That like, could we just like give some sort of like reprieve to make sure this moment, like this four years of building to this peak moment
Speaker: At the end, it's just like something to remember.
Speaker: In a positive way, yeah.
Speaker: I remember I left a job once and I got a parking ticket on my last day because my parking path had already been shut off.
Speaker: And it's like, hmm.
Speaker: See you later.
Speaker: And I've talked to schools that don't do, that haven't done billing for like damages at the end of the semester as a way, like we don't want to like this negative experience and going back to Maddie, what you're talking about is like this kind of expected, like, you know, I almost just want to get a thank you card from every person who deserved to be billed for damages.
Speaker: And we didn't, but you don't, we don't ever get anything like that.
Speaker: It was just like, oh, they just kind of expected to get away without billing.
Speaker: And we did like, I don't know if they ever realized that that was a better moment because we engineered it.
Speaker: Yes, it's definitely generous.
Speaker: Okay, so let's talk about the types of moments.
Speaker: The book talked about four.
Speaker: And let's start with elevations.
Speaker: Okay, I can start.
Speaker: So we have some examples.
Speaker: Mainly there's some from the book, some that we can draw on from our personal experiences.
Speaker: But one that I think of when I think of moments of elevation is actually from when I worked at UTA and JC was my supervisor.
Speaker: And I was in a hall where...
Speaker: They had remodeled this community kitchen for residents to use.
Speaker: We had just started this graduate student housing program on the third floor, and they were going to get this really beautiful, all brand new appliances community kitchen that they could use.
Speaker: And so it took about three to four weeks, I want to say, for the kitchen to actually be finished or completed after the semester started.
Speaker: And JC and I were talking one day in our office and just...
Speaker: I don't even remember whose idea it was, but it was like, how can we make this more special for them instead of just like opening the doors to the kitchen?
Speaker: They no longer see this construction happening.
Speaker: And then they just come to the conclusion on their own.
Speaker: Okay, can we use it now?
Speaker: Can we not use it now?
Speaker: Is it done?
Speaker: Is it not done?
Speaker: And so we thought, let's make this an elevated moment and really make it special.
Speaker: And so we had kind of a grand opening of the kitchen and simplest thing that we could have done, but...
Speaker: So awesome to see it play out.
Speaker: So I worked together with my hall council or hall crew at other schools and made it a program, a grand opening of the Trinity Hall kitchen on the third floor for grad students.
Speaker: And I was sitting in JC's office.
Speaker: He pulls out this like UTA special ribbon that he just had.
Speaker: For some reason, he just had it in his office desk, like on deck ready.
Speaker: And he goes, here, you can make it a ribbon cutting.
Speaker: Like, take this ribbon, take it back with you.
Speaker: And it's like official UTA embroidered ribbon.
Speaker: It's like fancy.
Speaker: And so I like invited all of our leadership team to come out, director of housing.
Speaker: It's like 9 p.m.
Speaker: on like a weeknight.
Speaker: And Hall Council hosts this program, has like all this food, all the residents come out on the third floor and just love this moment.
Speaker: And we do like a whole ribbon cutting.
Speaker: I let Hall Council cut it, the president of Hall Council.
Speaker: And it was just so much fun to see, okay, the whole month they couldn't use the kitchen.
Speaker: It was almost like irrelevant at that point because they were so excited about the fact that we were making it such a big deal for them.
Speaker: for it to finally be open.
Speaker: And so I just think of that as like a really cool moment of elevation that was so easy to engineer, but meant so much to the people involved.
Speaker: I don't remember having the ribbon in my desk, but I like the fact that maybe that was true.
Speaker: I feel like you did, JC.
Speaker: You just like pulled it out of nowhere.
Speaker: I'm looking around my drawers in the office right now to see if I've got some ribbon floating around.
Speaker: But the part I think that got missed, Maddie, was that I remember you reached out to – well, because I think this was the year they opened a new building.
Speaker: And there's always that conversation between like –
Speaker: vintage buildings and new buildings, new buildings to get all the attention.
Speaker: It was like, there was just this, I think it was that same year.
Speaker: There's huge ribbon cutting with all the VIPs and all this pomp and circumstance.
Speaker: And you reached out to, it wasn't alumni, it was like development and got the gold scissors that they had used at there.
Speaker: And that was like, oh, this is the real deal.
Speaker: Cause we've got gold scissors to cut this ribbon.
Speaker: How could I forget?
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And that I think was like really the elevated piece for me was like it felt a little more special than just like the scissors I pulled out of my desk.
Speaker: Yeah, clearly the ribbon was special to me.
Speaker: But you're so right.
Speaker: How could I forget about the gold scissors?
Speaker: And to see other people be the ones to get to use it, you know, like students.
Speaker: It wasn't the president of the university or like the new VP of student affairs doing it like they were on the new building.
Speaker: The mayor.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it was our students.
Speaker: I think one of the things I really like about this elevated moment or moments of elevation is the idea that it's unexpected.
Speaker: I think all of them are too, but it's unexpected.
Speaker: And I think we talked about this, about breaking the script.
Speaker: I think all of them break some sort of script that, oh, well, it's supposed to be the president that cuts the ribbon or it's supposed to be this.
Speaker: And then you made that moment for them, for the students to be able to do that.
Speaker: And I think for me, one of the examples that I had, and I think it was even after we did this presentation, was having popsicles at Move-In.
Speaker: There's an example in the book, it may not have been a book, maybe it would have been something that you'd shared with all your examples that you have.
Speaker: But there was one about the popsicle hot life.
Speaker: But then I thought about it about Move-In and how hot
Speaker: that day typically is.
Speaker: And so from moving, I think maybe two years ago, we added popsicles to, we put them in the cooler.
Speaker: So the water too.
Speaker: And so, and we didn't really advertise it.
Speaker: We didn't tell anyone, but,
Speaker: And we tell them ahead of time, they just opened the cooler and they saw the popsicle.
Speaker: And we thought that was, I think for me, I felt very giddy about it because I was like, oh, that's cool.
Speaker: You're unexpected.
Speaker: And then they get in and they're like, oh, I really want a popsicle right now.
Speaker: And, you know, and so, well, of course there was water in it.
Speaker: But for us, I saw that as an elevated moment because one, it wasn't expected, but then it was something also, again, refreshing where it
Speaker: you know, something sweet they could enjoy on a hot day.
Speaker: And then I think we also- Yeah, I'm sure that news spread like wildfire after the first few people saw that.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And then, of course, they kept asking, where's the popsicle?
Speaker: Where'd you get the popsicle from?
Speaker: We're like, well, open the cooler.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: uh and so that was really cool for us and i think even i think my favorite one of this the moments of elevation um some example that they even mentioned in the book was the flight attendant with southwest i know we've already talked about that one but that's like one of my favorite ones because again you're not really expecting the flight attendant to wrap and then they start and you're like whoa that was cool and then people start laughing and
Speaker: We'll talk about connection in a little bit, but, you know, they start laughing.
Speaker: You build this sort of, oh, we're in this together and we all got the joke, you know, about choosing your favorite kid versus the other.
Speaker: And it just breaks the script.
Speaker: And I think that's what makes moments like that so meaningful and things that you remember, you know, after the flight.
Speaker: And I love the popsicle example because it also illustrates how easily the examples in this book can be translated into our work as like housing professionals.
Speaker: And what Apefa was alluding to is that there's this in Los Angeles, this hotel called the Magic Castle, and it's a real marginal looking hotel.
Speaker: But it's like the number one or number two, like highest ranked on TripAdvisor or whatever, because as they describe in the book, they've really mastered the art of like moments that create those peaks and through a vacation.
Speaker: And the popsicle hotline that Pefa talked about was –
Speaker: Out at the pool, there's a phone and you just pick it up and they're like, what kind of popsicle do you want?
Speaker: And some person comes out like in full butler, white gloves, outfit with a silver platter with popsicles on it.
Speaker: And it just is this like moment.
Speaker: And so I've changed that to work on moving day.
Speaker: I actually several years ago at RA, I threw this out as it's like, wouldn't this be kind of a cool idea?
Speaker: Like some Wednesday night.
Speaker: And they did it.
Speaker: And the RA dressed up in a butler with white gloves.
Speaker: They bought a silver platter on Amazon.
Speaker: And they just advertised it for one night between like eight and nine.
Speaker: You call the front desk and they answered it, Casey Hall Popsicle Hotline.
Speaker: And it was real neat.
Speaker: It was like kind of an elevated moment.
Speaker: I remember hearing stories from the RA.
Speaker: It's like,
Speaker: these two roommates ordered popsicles together and they both said we'd never hang out and we did this together.
Speaker: And it's like, how do we bring elevated moments into people's rooms when sometimes they don't want to leave?
Speaker: So yeah, definitely.
Speaker: I think this wasn't necessarily planned, but in 2017, I remember it was the solar eclipse just happened to be on move-in day.
Speaker: And I worked with our planetarium and bought out like all the remaining solar sunglasses they had.
Speaker: And we put them in all the science community, learning communities rooms and said, Hey, join us at two o'clock in the day.
Speaker: And like,
Speaker: It was just real neat on moving day.
Speaker: Like the world just kind of stopped and all these people were standing.
Speaker: I think, where'd you get those glasses?
Speaker: How did I get like, how do I get ahold of those?
Speaker: And you talk about like currency, like if you had solar glasses on that day, like you felt pretty special.
Speaker: And that just wasn't, I was not trying to make a elevated moment, but it was one of those that just turned out to be.
Speaker: Yeah, what a great way to bond everyone on their first day on campus, J.C.
Speaker: Yeah, it was really neat.
Speaker: And, you know, all the staff members around student affairs were like, hey, can I get some of those glasses?
Speaker: I heard you got them.
Speaker: Well, building a little capital there.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So the next type of moment is insight.
Speaker: And these are the ones that are like kind of those aha moments.
Speaker: So one of the things that, and I'll relate it to an example they also use in the book, or maybe it was, again, something that we had just heard of by Sarah Blakely.
Speaker: And I actually follow her on LinkedIn now.
Speaker: And she's the owner of Spanx.com.
Speaker: or CEO, and she created that.
Speaker: But after getting laughed at, countless boardrooms, she finally broke through and became the first self-made female billionaire with a hugely successful product, Spanx.
Speaker: And she was an interviewer, and she talks about how the success of that was because of her dad.
Speaker: And her dad would ask her, who would be so disappointed if they came home and they gave this answer to a question where
Speaker: this question was, what did you, what did you fail at today?
Speaker: And if they didn't have that answer, he'd be disappointed because it showed that they didn't try something new or they weren't risking enough, you know?
Speaker: And so for, for sure, how this ties into that moment of insight, because one, it challenged them to do something differently, right?
Speaker: They're asking them, what did you fail at this week?
Speaker: And so push them to do something that was out of their comfort zone, but then it was one of those aha moments, right?
Speaker: Of like, okay,
Speaker: It's not all about just winning every time, but what are those times where you get to do something difficult and fail at it so you can learn from it?
Speaker: And I really connect this particular moment of insight to just mentorship.
Speaker: And I can count some answers.
Speaker: a number of people in my life that have really challenged me to really think about those aha moments.
Speaker: And even getting on to take this next role in my career, going on to another position than what I was doing, I think for me that I had someone kind of remind me of, okay, it's time.
Speaker: You're ready, right?
Speaker: You're ready to do this.
Speaker: I believe in you.
Speaker: And so...
Speaker: Throughout, through a lot of those conversations and experiences, I was able to get that moment of insight of, yes, you're right.
Speaker: I can do this.
Speaker: I can't go into the next thing.
Speaker: I can't go into the next step.
Speaker: And those are moments that are going to stick with me, right?
Speaker: Because those are those things that I'm going to remember.
Speaker: And when I get to another situation where I'm doubting myself and I have those people in my corner, they're like, no, Pefa, you got this.
Speaker: Those would be moments of insight for me.
Speaker: And so this one is a hard one a little bit, but it's one that is also very powerful when used even in small, small ways.
Speaker: Yeah, I think the moments of insight are the toughest ones to like engineer because they are.
Speaker: And I think you hear it all the time.
Speaker: We talk about aha moments in grad school and how do we make aha moments or like what are these moments like in student lives?
Speaker: We're like, oh, yeah.
Speaker: that's what we've been talking about this whole time it's so difficult and then when you see them it's like hmm how do i replicate that for all 4 000 other students living with us here because it's just such an individualized experience i remember this one time it was uh there was a student in hall council and uh the rd had given me a heads up that he was coming to see me and uh so he
Speaker: set up a time and appointment.
Speaker: I got the gist that he was basically going to complain about lack of productivity by hall council.
Speaker: And it was like, okay, well, we've been here before.
Speaker: So, uh,
Speaker: Beating is supposed to happen.
Speaker: And 15 minutes passed, 20 minutes passed, half hour.
Speaker: And I've called there.
Speaker: He's like, where is this guy?
Speaker: Like, it's not here.
Speaker: And finally, he comes in and just starts unloading about like, nobody ever gets anything done.
Speaker: Nobody's that we don't stay on agenda.
Speaker: People never show up.
Speaker: They're always late.
Speaker: Nobody's focused.
Speaker: And I just said, oh, it must be real frustrating to try and manage something when people aren't committed.
Speaker: And he's like, yes.
Speaker: And people aren't showing up when they say they will.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And when they're late to things.
Speaker: And he was like, yes.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: Like I just did to you.
Speaker: And I was like, there we go.
Speaker: And it was like people talk about the light bulb coming on.
Speaker: And that was exactly one of the I'll always remember that moment because the light bulb just like.
Speaker: popped on and it was like, I really didn't plan it that way, but it just kind of happened.
Speaker: And I mean, the student didn't really go on to do great things.
Speaker: And that to my knowledge, I don't know how impactful it was, but certainly makes a great example.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So the next moment that we can work on is moments of pride.
Speaker: Yeah, so actually this is a quote from the book.
Speaker: And it says, it points out that about 80% of supervisors say that they frequently express appreciation, while less than 20% of the employees agree with that exact same statement.
Speaker: And so that's probably, if you're hearing this for the first time, a moment of insight.
Speaker: If you're a supervisor or have employees that you oversee in whatever line of work that you do.
Speaker: it's a significant difference there.
Speaker: And moments of pride can be really related back to just things as easy as recognition or feeling appreciated, feeling like what you're doing is valued and matters to the organization that you work for.
Speaker: And one example, I feel like
Speaker: we have the opportunity to create this moment of pride for students is I feel like we all have some form of weekly reports that we have our RAs or lead RAs or student staff members complete, whether it be on the off weeks that we don't meet with them for one-on-ones or even if we do meet with them on that week for one-on-ones, something could still happen.
Speaker: And so maybe you require your RAs to submit a report about resident interactions throughout the week or just in general how they're doing at the end of each week.
Speaker: So I think an easy way that we can all do this and that I try to hold myself accountable to do every week is when I see these come in, I designate time to sit through and actually read them.
Speaker: Because even as a graduate assistant and full-time residence director at UTA, my supervisor wanted me to submit these reports, right?
Speaker: Like we are also human, working really hard every day.
Speaker: At the time I was in grad school and had a lot going on.
Speaker: So they care about us too, hopefully, you know, and I believe JC did.
Speaker: So yes, but you know, I had to do these too.
Speaker: And sometimes I wonder like, do they even have time to read this?
Speaker: Like who's reading this?
Speaker: I'm just typing like nonsense at this point.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I look forward to those weekly reports every week, Maddie, just yours.
Speaker: I only read yours and nobody else's.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm sure mine were always filled with just, you know, exhilarating information.
Speaker: But I think the point is our RAs probably think the same thing.
Speaker: And so let's do something to change that.
Speaker: Give them a moment of pride here.
Speaker: If they tell us about something personal in this report, talk to them in person or call, pick up the phone and call them and let them know, Hey, I just read this.
Speaker: Let's talk more about it.
Speaker: Or, you know, as simple as responding in an email, if there's something they mentioned about a resident, like schedule time to follow up with them or better yet follow up with the resident yourself and create a pride, a moment of pride for the resident to knowing that you know about them, you know who they are and you know what's going on in their life.
Speaker: Like how cool would that be?
Speaker: And then also we all do things with data, right?
Speaker: Like Sky Factor, departmental surveys,
Speaker: And there's so many opportunities from there that we can celebrate our RA's accomplishments.
Speaker: Like, yes, we do a lot, but our RA's are really the boots on the ground, programming all the time with them, really digging into the lives of their residents.
Speaker: How can we turn the data that we get, you know, whether it's daily or just in those yearly assessment tools and show our RA's, this is what you did.
Speaker: This resident said they experienced...
Speaker: a more positive programming experience this year than they did last year.
Speaker: Not to pin RAs against each other, but like, look at what you did.
Speaker: You have elevated their programming experience this year and they didn't have you as an RA last year.
Speaker: So I think there's, there's tons of opportunities there.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: I feel like we could probably do a whole podcast episode on the value of weekly reports.
Speaker: That might be a real lively one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There would be a lot of varying opinions.
Speaker: Just to my own credit here, I think it might have been after you left, Maddie, that we kind of stopped, at least in my area, doing weekly reports.
Speaker: I think we talked enough in person, too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's a lot of great reasons.
Speaker: We stayed in touch very often.
Speaker: It's so funny.
Speaker: I had a student speaking about weekly reports.
Speaker: The first report that they wrote, they were in third person because you tell them with their instant report, you have to.
Speaker: And so then I was like, so then when I responded, they're like, oh, I didn't know.
Speaker: I thought it was just a...
Speaker: just checking, you know, I thought I just had to write my name.
Speaker: And so of course it was like, RD Apefa saw me in the end or saw RA, you know, whatever.
Speaker: And it was so funny.
Speaker: But then when we added that human part of it, it was like, Hey, I'm so glad you did this or a great job with this program.
Speaker: Or, and then they're like, what?
Speaker: I can write this with my, with a lot of, you know, personality.
Speaker: Like, can I write this and tell the truth and not, you know, whatever it was, but I think weekly reports are fun.
Speaker: Just reminded me of another like moment of insight.
Speaker: There's been countless times where I've been talking to RAs about like their duty logs, their IRs.
Speaker: They just suck.
Speaker: Like they're terribly written.
Speaker: They're not good.
Speaker: Like, what's the purpose?
Speaker: And I'm like,
Speaker: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to be a nurse or like a social worker, right?
Speaker: They're like, yeah, that's my dream.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, well, let's talk about skill development here and how you do anything is how you do everything.
Speaker: If you're writing...
Speaker: Like writing IRs or writing weekly reports is transferable to writing charting as nursing or writing social worker notes on like cases you're providing.
Speaker: And so the moment of insight was like, what do you think I'm going to say if I get a reference call from like a nurse practitioner who's like, hey, we interviewed this great person.
Speaker: They said, how is their note taking or how is their written communication?
Speaker: I was like, ooh, okay.
Speaker: these IRs are real terrible.
Speaker: So I wouldn't trust their charting.
Speaker: And the moment of like, ah, there's some value there.
Speaker: Oh, that's so true.
Speaker: And so I think for me, the pride, the moments of pride,
Speaker: I mean, I see this when I think about recognition.
Speaker: And one of the ways that I saw this play out was, you know, for our RA, so specifically for when I was there, we would, prior to me arriving, they would wait till the end of the year for RA of the year, right?
Speaker: And so we started implementing RA of the month because we knew that
Speaker: A lot of them were doing things and there are times where, yes, some of them excelled more than others, but we wanted them to recognize each other.
Speaker: But then also kind of going back to what you're saying, Maddie, being able to see the good work that they're doing.
Speaker: And so I think for me, a little bit of pride also goes back to, and I think it connects to the next one that we're going to talk about, that
Speaker: feeling seen, right?
Speaker: And feeling like, okay, I've worked really hard for this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like this is, this is a good feeling.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I want to, I want to be seen.
Speaker: I want to be noticed.
Speaker: And how do I feel, feel when, when that's, that happens.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so there's this little moments.
Speaker: And so we would,
Speaker: you know, have them write notes, but then also the RAs recognized each other, right?
Speaker: They were the ones that were nominating each other for RA of the month.
Speaker: I think one of the things, and maybe, you know, JC, you're thinking about this too, and I'm not sure if you're about to say it with this, but
Speaker: This one is also a hard one because it's also very easy to miss, right?
Speaker: One of the questions that someone can ask is, okay, well, if you do a moment of pride for one person, then can you do it for all of them?
Speaker: And we get into this, I think with all of them, we get into our minds of, oh, we really need to do it for...
Speaker: for every single person.
Speaker: Well, when we do that, it really does become forced a little bit, right?
Speaker: And then it goes back to the status quo of like, okay, well, we should expect it, like this is happening.
Speaker: And so I think this is an area where we have to be very intentional about not making it all about, okay, let me find every single person and create a moment of pride, a moment of elevation, a moment of this.
Speaker: But just going with it, small moments, right, in this one aspect.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree, Peppa.
Speaker: I think it is challenging to kind of navigate the line of who...
Speaker: in what setting do you create these moments of pride?
Speaker: Because I personally struggle with like, oh, do I do group recognition?
Speaker: Do people hate it?
Speaker: Like I hate it.
Speaker: So like, do I want to create this awkward moment for other people?
Speaker: But one thing I do that I think makes it a little bit easier and takes the pressure off of everyone, but also creates a little bit of moment of pride for my students is in those weekly reports, I give them opportunities to share just like,
Speaker: funny like limericks or jokes or something else that's going on that they just want to share that's like, you don't mind me sharing with everyone or the group as a whole.
Speaker: And in every staff meeting, I'll like gather those jokes or whatever it is that they wanted to share with everyone.
Speaker: sometimes act as if they're my own at first and try and fool the group.
Speaker: But then, you know, it's kind of fun to see, okay, this is a fun way to kind of laugh together.
Speaker: One of my RAs shares a joke, but then also like, thank you so much, RAsO and so for sharing this joke, because it created this moment for us all.
Speaker: And you are hilarious.
Speaker: Like, hopefully they can walk away knowing, wow, I feel good about myself.
Speaker: I put that effort into doing my weekly report.
Speaker: And that helps create a moment that we can remember as a staff too.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: I think about, Pefa, I think you're absolutely right about the consistency and, oh, we missed someone on X, Y, or Z reason.
Speaker: And I think that loops back around to what I, the value I got out of like customer service or I don't know.
Speaker: Hopefully you've put enough goodwill out in the world by acknowledging birthdays along the way or like staff GPAs that, oops, we missed someone.
Speaker: And they will, instead of thinking, oh, I got wronged, it's more of like, oh, something must have happened because I know this is like recognizing and providing moments of pride is something that's important to PEFA.
Speaker: It must have, something must have happened that got in the way this time around instead of something more nefarious.
Speaker: Like PEFA just doesn't like me like everybody else.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: this is also like moments of pride.
Speaker: It's, it goes back to, uh, the, uh,
Speaker: graduation and, you know, for the whole reason we're here is to graduate students.
Speaker: And I'm personally not someone who buys in necessarily to like all the pomp and circumstance and all the branding and this whole big production of graduation.
Speaker: But when I walked, when I got my PhD, yeah, I was proud, but there was this moment where I was walking across the stage and I shook the hand of the president of the university and
Speaker: Getting a PhD.
Speaker: And he leaned over into my ear like he was going to share a secret just between the two of us.
Speaker: And he said, feels good, doesn't it?
Speaker: And just whatever that moment right there with the whisper in the ear.
Speaker: And I was like, it feels amazing.
Speaker: And if you had asked me, like, it was like, yeah, it's cool.
Speaker: Like, that's cool.
Speaker: But it was like something about that moment.
Speaker: And I don't know, maybe he said that to every single other person that had come across the stage.
Speaker: But it was just like, it's something that wasn't normally attractive to me, like a moment of pride, all of a sudden became like this really like, prideful, also elevated moment.
Speaker: And I will I will remember that forever.
Speaker: And how much did you pay to have that whispered in your ear?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I was like, thank you.
Speaker: Here's everything else I've done for you.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So our last of the four moments is connection.
Speaker: And this is one of my personal favorites, but this is about like moments of connection between people.
Speaker: So what do we have to say about this?
Speaker: The moments of connection one, CJC, I will agree with you.
Speaker: This one is a
Speaker: It somehow feels natural to me, I think, just based on my personality.
Speaker: I think the three of us, right?
Speaker: It just feels natural to us because it reminds us about the people aspect of just what we do in our daily lives and in our jobs.
Speaker: And so I think this one is really fun.
Speaker: But one example that I had was with our staff, one of my staff members and very similar in terms of just wants to give everything to people like selfless and thinks a lot about how others feel and how they feel, you know, in relation to others and really puts a lot of, a lot of people above themselves and, and,
Speaker: And sometimes the point where we're like, okay, it's okay.
Speaker: Don't worry about that.
Speaker: Let's move on.
Speaker: And so this is something that she did that was really special to everybody on her floor.
Speaker: I bet she was an RA and she was going into the next semester and she realized that
Speaker: She had a lot more of returners and there were going to be some new residents that were going to be in her building.
Speaker: And she was trying to think of, you know, she'd built this community with her previous residents and it was going to be in the spring semester and people who were transferring were probably going to feel alone and not feel like they were connected.
Speaker: And so she was thinking, okay, what are some ways that I can do to still build that connection with people, but also make...
Speaker: make the new residents feel like they belong and are a part of something.
Speaker: And so she reached out to all of our returners and
Speaker: She did this.
Speaker: She created a bulletin board, put it right in front of her floor and her wing, and then wrote, welcome new residents and gave everyone the opportunity to sign that and sign that poster.
Speaker: But then she also sent out welcome cards to those joining the community for the first time that semester.
Speaker: And so I think in that moment, one, that poster board,
Speaker: really showed that, you know, of course for a new wrestling coming in, it was just a reminder that, okay, I'm not alone, right?
Speaker: This is what we really build about that building, that sense of community.
Speaker: One, they didn't feel like they were alone.
Speaker: But then two, you know, she, she had, she had a way where for their roommates obviously knew who, who, who was moving in.
Speaker: And so they were able to share their names, but then other people in the community, they were able to kind of create that personal connection with them and saying, Hey, welcome.
Speaker: We're so glad that you're here.
Speaker: Or, Hey, I don't know you yet, but I'm so, I can't wait to get to meet you and see you at a program, you know?
Speaker: And so that was really, really special.
Speaker: And I think, uh,
Speaker: small way of creating those connections, but making them meaningful enough where, of course, I bet you those residents remember that, right?
Speaker: They remember their first day walking in and seeing that poster in their hall.
Speaker: So it was one of my personal favorites too.
Speaker: One thing I think about and that I think is really important when it comes to this concept of connection, and I'm happy you're right.
Speaker: Anyone in student affairs would probably say this is their favorite because we have a genuine interest in others and care about them as people.
Speaker: But I think in order to do that, you have to have a genuine interest in learning more about others too and asking those questions to get below the surface, but also listening to their responses.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think that is the foundation of connection is really being able to listen to what people say and think of ways and how you either relate or how others relate that you can connect them to as a resource or to strengthen the relationship you already have.
Speaker: And one thing that I kind of reflect on from my first year here at TCU as a hall director is actually, no, it was the beginning of this past year.
Speaker: I actually had an encounter with a resident through school.
Speaker: a conduct situation with an alcohol policy violation.
Speaker: And so I had to meet with her and we talked through the policy and, you know, of course we got to know each other.
Speaker: I used that as a way cause it was first weekend they were here, didn't know her before.
Speaker: And that was my first experience with her cause she'd been on campus for a week and use that to kind of get to know her as an opportunity to not make it so negative, but really take that and kind of start that foundation of a relationship.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And we got to talking about her personal interests and she expressed to me some of the things she likes to do and that she really liked boxing.
Speaker: And she was like, I don't think TCU has a boxing club.
Speaker: That'd be really cool to start it.
Speaker: And it was just kind of like an off thought to her, didn't really have any sort of stake in it, didn't really have any plans.
Speaker: And I remember, too, my current RAs in that moment had founded clubs or organizations at TCU themselves.
Speaker: And so I was like, oh, my gosh, like that was a moment of insight for me.
Speaker: I'm like, I couldn't tell you verbatim what the process is to start a foundation or start a club at TCU.
Speaker: But I know they can because they've done it.
Speaker: So I called one of them.
Speaker: They answered.
Speaker: I was able to connect them, gave them their phone numbers,
Speaker: That RA ended up taking her out to lunch and told her the entire process of how to found a club at TCU.
Speaker: And then from that day, now we're a year later, that resident has founded the TCU Boxing Club and is in the process of recruiting members to begin next year or next fall.
Speaker: And I just think it's so cool that from a policy violation where I had a conduct meeting with a student,
Speaker: you know, really trying to listen to her and who she was as a person other than that policy violation.
Speaker: I was able to make a connection with her and she'll stop by my office now all the time and tell me about the updates on the boxing club or her personal life or just what's going on.
Speaker: And I think that, like I said before, you know, having that genuine interest in getting to know her and connect with her was what started that entire thing.
Speaker: It almost seems like moments of connection are really just quality networking in terms of value added in relationships.
Speaker: And like you said, Matty, identifying those.
Speaker: And I think that's a real unique way of like networking is sometimes a four letter word.
Speaker: But if it's like, what can I contribute to this relationship?
Speaker: And how can I connect people to create moments of connection is really what it might be about.
Speaker: So I think that's a really great example.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The one example that Walsh took is not as positive, or at least from on the start, but there was this student who kept walking by another office, like in the student union, several years ago.
Speaker: and would always stick up his middle finger to this office.
Speaker: He would walk in and just cause a ruckus and curse at all the employees.
Speaker: The office called me over because they knew he lived on campus and I was supposed to come take care of business apparently.
Speaker: So I finally got him to come into my office and we had this long conversation.
Speaker: And I think I was about 15 seconds from getting him to self-elect to like
Speaker: apologize for his behavior.
Speaker: But he didn't end up doing that.
Speaker: But I know he left understanding the expectations for like normal behavior and interacting with others, even if they disappointed you in some way.
Speaker: But he stood up out of, to get up by my office, turned to walk out and on my bookshelf, he said, oh, you read The Watchman, a graphic novel by Alan Moore.
Speaker: And I had it on my bookshelf, my office bookshelf.
Speaker: And I was like, yeah, I love it.
Speaker: And
Speaker: It just switched.
Speaker: Like this book caused a moment of connection between this guy.
Speaker: I just, you know, had a meeting with him and the business end of a two by four about behavior and talking about the Watchmen.
Speaker: And it was just something real neat that it's like you never know.
Speaker: Like the Watchmen will now always be on my bookshelf at work because you just never know who's going to see it and what kind of connection that's going to make.
Speaker: And I just, I think like this guy kept coming back to my office.
Speaker: Like, he's like, have you read Swamp Thing by Alan Moore?
Speaker: And I was like, no, I haven't, but I've always wanted to.
Speaker: Week later, guess what?
Speaker: He showed up, Swamp Thing, sitting on my desk.
Speaker: He came back a month later.
Speaker: He's like, have you read Swamp Thing yet?
Speaker: No, I haven't gotten around to it yet.
Speaker: It's still on, but it's like, you just never know.
Speaker: And it's like, Maddie, what you were talking about, the things about us that make us interesting or that our interests really catch people's eyes.
Speaker: Another example I have is...
Speaker: it's the people you'll never forget.
Speaker: Uh, when I got my vaccine, my COVID vaccine, I, my, my draft number got called up.
Speaker: It was go the next day between two and four.
Speaker: And, uh, I literally sat in my car, like down the highway because cars backed up for like an hour and a half.
Speaker: I ended up finally like parking at a hotel and walking a half mile to the, the,
Speaker: the expo center in Arlington and then waited another like two hours there.
Speaker: And I remember walking up to the, there was an administrator and the person like giving the vaccine.
Speaker: And I will, the woman there, and I was like, what's your name?
Speaker: She's like, my name's Regina.
Speaker: And I will just always remember that moment Regina and I shared right there when, you know, it's like a year and a half to get to this point and all the sacrifices people have made.
Speaker: It's like, I'm not an emotional person, but that moment with Regina, I will never forget.
Speaker: And all the three and a half hours that it took to get there that day and everything along is like,
Speaker: I will remember Regina until the day I die.
Speaker: And I don't think she'll like, she's like, actually, I've had some people come back for their second and it's nice to see people both times.
Speaker: And I just think that's, that's really kind of neat.
Speaker: There's neat things along the way that we all have those connections.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So we've talked about the four moments, elevation, insight, pride, and connection.
Speaker: Any closing thoughts on the individual moments?
Speaker: I think for me, especially with a connection one, something that just came to mind was, you know, I was thinking a lot about kindness and how, especially in our world today and within the last year, just...
Speaker: being kind is just one small thing that you can do to create a powerful moment.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so that was like the word that just kept coming as you were, you both were showing examples and just thinking about being, just being kind, kind to people.
Speaker: And that could create connections, but then also create connections between myself and somebody else as well.
Speaker: And so, yeah, I love this book.
Speaker: I think every listener should go get it and read it.
Speaker: Change your life.
Speaker: I think if I may add one other thing that, Beth, you just jogged my memory, is like a tangible, actionable thing for listeners is like we all encounter bad moments or like students who are complaining about something.
Speaker: Like I have found so much value in connecting with students like me.
Speaker: after whatever they've wanted has been resolved or whatever disappointment they have resolved.
Speaker: It's like, I, not all the time, every time, but I try and make a habit of like, once I've taken care of something, it's like, I will delay, send an email for like two weeks later that just says, Hey, so-and-so real sorry about the AC that wasn't working.
Speaker: Uh, no, we got it fixed.
Speaker: Just wanted to touch base, see how things were going.
Speaker: And half the time I get no response back, but the other half I get a genuine, like, thanks so much.
Speaker: I really appreciate you reaching out.
Speaker: Everything's going great.
Speaker: And it's like that connection there that costs me almost nothing in terms of time spent.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And the only thing you got to remember is something happens before then just to unschedule that email from going out because that would be a little weird.
Speaker: But, you know, there's a tangible way.
Speaker: Like you can you can engineer connections by just following up with people who have had issues.
Speaker: And then it's like everyone loves follow up.
Speaker: Everyone loves to know that we care, that they're important, that they important enough for me to send a 30 second email.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then I guess also in turn, it creates that moment of pride too, you know, because then I, there's an area that I had and she had written cards to just personal cards and thank you cards to her residents.
Speaker: And she didn't think anything of it.
Speaker: And no one said anything to her.
Speaker: And then she was doing a random inspection and saw one of her cards that she had written.
Speaker: I don't know if maybe it was, I don't know if I've told you this before, or you've told me a similar story, JC, but she found the card,
Speaker: taped to the person's mirror and it was just like a like just random but then also just a an overwhelming sense of pride for her like what they did that you know it's just like yeah so cool and so again something small and when you find out right that that it made that moment um for them that meaningful moment for them it's just it's nice
Speaker: that's like those little moments are all we need to just like totally refill our tank.
Speaker: And it's like, man, that's all I needed.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, just to think about the nuts and bolts of everything that led to that moment of pride and how happenstance it was, because another RA could have done that inspection and wouldn't have known another, like it could have been put up,
Speaker: a day earlier or a day later, it's like, you just never know.
Speaker: And then how do we, because you and you all know, like talking to Ari is about like, no, everything to do is important.
Speaker: It's so valuable.
Speaker: It's like, but if you're not getting the reciprocal feedback from the people you're serving, that's problematic.
Speaker: And like you, this moment you just described with this thank you note on a mirror, like,
Speaker: It existed even if nobody saw it or there was no other validation, but you can't get people to feel that by just saying, yeah, I'm sure that card you put is on somebody's mirror somewhere.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So let's talk about professional development.
Speaker: You all presented on this at a conference.
Speaker: And in that presentation, you did an activity.
Speaker: And people love activities in their presentations and hands-on experiential learning.
Speaker: So walk us through what that activity was.
Speaker: Yeah, so we gave our program participants the opportunity to create their first day of employment using all four points of possible of moments.
Speaker: And so we asked them to construct what, you know, a common day of transition might look like into their new role, but make it elevated and
Speaker: provide some pride, provide some connection for them to create within that first day.
Speaker: And so some examples that we gave them were like all first days could be on a Friday or, you know, instead of forcing them, taking them on a tour on campus and interrupting all your coworkers time in their office and forcing them to have that awkward introduction, like maybe the new employee takes around a snack cart and, you
Speaker: Maybe some beverages if it's like 445 or something.
Speaker: And so it's like, hey, I'm the new employee.
Speaker: I'm here.
Speaker: I'm going to be working with you.
Speaker: And that's a fun moment.
Speaker: That would be a great first day in my mind.
Speaker: And as a returning employee, a treat for me.
Speaker: So how can we make this more elevated?
Speaker: So we asked that we gave them some time, asked them to create, if they could, their best first day experience for their new hall directors, new RAs, whatever it may be that they had in mind.
Speaker: There was one example too, and I don't know if we gave this to them or they gave it to us too, but then given if the department has enough budget or even personally, I think supervisors can do this by giving a gift card for their first meal, right?
Speaker: Because knowing that it's so chaotic when they're moving in or relocating, providing that first meal for them or giving them a gift card so they can go use that.
Speaker: But again, small moments.
Speaker: Well, the gift card also works like if it's like a special haunt to the, like this is the place that we all go as a department.
Speaker: That also creates a connection there of like, go to our favorite place on us.
Speaker: We know you've just moved across the country.
Speaker: Here's a place you might enjoy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Another thing was, you know, it's something so simple too.
Speaker: Like you mentioned earlier, JC, like an email, like for all your new employees, personalize an email to them, but make it fun.
Speaker: Like include a video clip of the rest of the team saying hi to them.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: something that they can look at and view and get them excited for their first day instead of, hi, welcome to campus.
Speaker: Here's what you need to do on your first day.
Speaker: Here's your technology, action items.
Speaker: Here's what you have to do at HR.
Speaker: Like that's probably the first email they're going to get from a lot of places.
Speaker: So how can we turn that around and maybe put that on pause for a day or two and start off on the right foot by sending them something really fun and exciting?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So before we close out the show, let's talk about the act of presenting.
Speaker: You both have different professional approaches and styles.
Speaker: What was it like working together to put on this program with your different styles?
Speaker: I think it was really fun for me.
Speaker: Sorry, Papa.
Speaker: Because I think personally, I fall a little bit in the middle of both of you.
Speaker: I like to be laid back and I like it to be more conversational when I'm presenting.
Speaker: But I also like to have structure and know what I'm going to say and how it's going to go.
Speaker: And I think
Speaker: JC, you're like, when we did this, you're like sitting in the chair, legs propped up on whatever it was that was in front of you.
Speaker: You like got your two little note cards, but you're just so like informal that it makes people feel comfortable.
Speaker: But for me, I was like, should we all be standing?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What's going on?
Speaker: But then a Peppa, you're also on the opposite end of like, I'm going to have, I'm going to know exactly what I'm going to say for every slide.
Speaker: And I want to make sure it goes perfectly.
Speaker: And just so like the formality of it all and both great, you know, presentation styles, but it was, it was really fun for me to kind of see both ends, but then also kind of like incorporate, you know, interacting with the audience is something I really like doing and making that a fun part of it.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: I really enjoyed it.
Speaker: I sat in the corner because you two were the stars of the show.
Speaker: I want to distract from the agreement that you were bringing.
Speaker: Do you remember when we met the night before trying to make sure we got all of our slides in order?
Speaker: Yeah, that's when it sticks to my, I want to make sure you have it right, make sure you have your notes right, get the right pages.
Speaker: But I think for me, it was super fun.
Speaker: But one thing that I had to learn how to do is just learn about your styles and
Speaker: lean towards you in some areas and lean towards Tracy in some areas and just kind of go with the flow.
Speaker: And so there are times I just let go of my notes and talked it out.
Speaker: And I realized that that was more fun doing that, you know, in times where I was just, I let my guard down and in their times where I was serious.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And so really working with each other's styles to, to benefit the entire presentation and knowing that it's not just about me or, you
Speaker: You know, it's okay, how can we work together to be successful here as presenters?
Speaker: One of my favorite sayings is...
Speaker: Plans are worthless, but planning is essential.
Speaker: And I think that really speaks to presentations because like, Pev, just like you were saying, it's like we get to a point, it's like, let's just rock and roll.
Speaker: You know, you practice enough so it doesn't look like you practiced at all or whatever that other saying is, but you just got to rock and roll.
Speaker: So what piece of advice would you give to people working together on a presentation at a conference?
Speaker: I mean, definitely communicate with each other.
Speaker: I think it's awesome when you can bring together different presentation styles, but be aware of that so that you know what to expect for yourself.
Speaker: And so I think it actually brings more character to the presentation if you are a little different.
Speaker: So I think it's great.
Speaker: But that self-awareness and planning, like you said, JC, it's good.
Speaker: But also be aware that it's not going to go exactly as planned because...
Speaker: there's going to be some fun little banter or questions from the audience or things that happen that you just, you know, don't expect.
Speaker: So I think just be prepared for anything.
Speaker: I'd also add, you know, taking advantage of, not in a good way, but utilizing each other's styles for the good of the presentation.
Speaker: And so there are times where I knew JC was going to cover that example.
Speaker: And so I didn't want to go into detail.
Speaker: I knew Maddie was going to
Speaker: You know, go in this direction.
Speaker: And so, you know, knowing each other, but then understanding, okay, how can you, how can you lean on each other to cover those things, but then trust each other in that way, if that makes sense.
Speaker: Of course, you know, maybe you're trying to partner with somebody.
Speaker: from a different campus who you're just getting to know.
Speaker: I think some of those questions that you may need to ask is, okay, what is your style?
Speaker: Okay, what are you, what do you lean towards more?
Speaker: What are you going to say in this?
Speaker: How would you say it?
Speaker: How can I come in and really support you in that?
Speaker: Because the one thing you want at the end of your presentation is for the audience, you know, then,
Speaker: you knew that you were for each other, right?
Speaker: If nobody else was, like if I knew that JC was going to tell a lie, I was going to go with it, right?
Speaker: And say, yes, that happened.
Speaker: You know, loyalty.
Speaker: It's like, yes, that actually happened.
Speaker: I was there.
Speaker: And then be like, what was that story at the end of the presentation?
Speaker: So, yes, of course.
Speaker: I think we need a little more context here.
Speaker: It never happens.
Speaker: Otherwise, everyone's going to be questioning every presentation I've ever given.
Speaker: It never happens.
Speaker: Of course, th is is just, I know.
Speaker: Yes, J.C., you never lied to your presentation.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: But the moral is just, you know, allow the audience to be able to know that the two of you or three of you are
Speaker: are for each other, right?
Speaker: And you're there to back each other up in every aspect of the presentation.
Speaker: And then you can critique at the end, right?
Speaker: After the presentation.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Never let the truth get in the way of a true tangible takeaway, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's what really matters.
Speaker: No, but I totally second that.
Speaker: Cause I will say there's nothing worse than like being in a presentation with someone or two people where it's clear, they don't really like have a relationship outside of that presentation.
Speaker: And so yeah,
Speaker: I think it says a lot if you even if you're presenting with someone from a different university who haven't really gotten to know as much, like put the time in to get to know them, because if you can interact with each other on a personal level, I think that adds a level of comfort and like reassurance to the audience that you have prepared and planned as well, because you actually like each other and want to spend time chatting about the topic that you're both passionate about.
Speaker: And I think my piece of advice would be to, especially if you're doing with like multiple levels of staff, like entry level, mid-level, senior level, it's like throw job titles out the window.
Speaker: And I think you can, I've been in presentations where it feels very rigid of like,
Speaker: Everyone's deferring to the person with the most senior title that, you know, sometimes there's a whole lot of value in just like empowering everybody and their part for their moment.
Speaker: And instead of everyone's like a question, get asked.
Speaker: Everyone needs to be comfortable with whoever starts speaking or responding first.
Speaker: Like we don't all need to look to the senior housing officer or whoever's the most senior in the room that's
Speaker: We're all experts in this moment, in this presentation, and as long as everybody understands that, I think it feels a lot more candid and a lot more organic, which is something that's always been important to me.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So your program was obviously well-received by participants to get top five recognition at the conference that year.
Speaker: What do you think it was about the program that appealed to the people who attended it?
Speaker: I mean, we gave away free stuff.
Speaker: Like, what else do you need?
Speaker: No, but we, you know, we had a raffle.
Speaker: I think that appealed to some people.
Speaker: We gave away free copies of the book and had a little activity to go with it.
Speaker: So I think that it was engaging.
Speaker: I also think our, you know, real-time examples that were easily applicable across many, like, disciplines and levels of expertise, it just made it easier to follow.
Speaker: And I would like to think that's some of the things that kind of enticed people.
Speaker: I think the takeaway was also very strong as well.
Speaker: So they came in not knowing what our presentation looked like, but then we're engaged throughout the presentation and walked away with some examples, even if...
Speaker: They had done that before, but then we shared a lot of new stuff too that were moments of insight for some people as well.
Speaker: And so I think the takeaway was really strong during our presentation and something that listeners can implement, thinking about how can they, I mean, it's a to-go box of the points that you want them to go away with, right?
Speaker: How can you make it so meaningful that
Speaker: they leave and they can remember our presentation as a meaningful moment, right?
Speaker: Yeah, I think that's great.
Speaker: So thank you both for being here.
Speaker: And as mentioned at the beginning of this episode, this is the first book club for the Swakuho podcast.
Speaker: From time to time, we feature books and Swakuho members who have read the books and put the book deliverables into action.
Speaker: If you have a book that has been beneficial to your career with actionable takeaways, drop me an email at swakuhopodcast at gmail.com for consideration or be on the lookout for a call for readers for a preselected book in the future.
Speaker: I want to once again thank our guests, Apefa Cooper and Maddie Reed.
Speaker: Time is such a valuable commodity and I can't thank them enough for investing their time in this podcast today.
Speaker: Apefa and Maddie certainly delivered.
Speaker: Be sure to connect with and thank them on their preferred social media accounts listed in the show notes.
Speaker: Let me know your number one takeaway from this episode by replying on the Swakuho social media podcast posts.
Speaker: I welcome any feedback about the quality and content of the show via Swakuho podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: I'm always open to suggestions to provide the most service and value to you, the membership.
Speaker: And as a new thing, are you having a professional conundrum and don't know what to do?
Speaker: Do you need some professional advice navigating a situation in the workplace or the job search?
Speaker: The podcast now has a submission form in the show notes where you can anonymously ask for professional advice.
Speaker: Once we have a handful of questions, I will pull together a panel to provide their take on your situation and provide some recommendations and guidance.
Speaker: Consider it like Ann Landers, but for housing professionals.
Speaker: On our next episode, we'll feature Craig Seeger from the University of Central Arkansas.
Speaker: We will be talking to him about his recently published article in the Journal of College and University Student Housing about factors infecting hiring decisions of RA candidates.
Speaker: It will be the first research-focused episode where we will feature a Swakuho-affiliated practitioner scholar who will bring and break down the research directly to you.
Speaker: With that, I say to you, good day.
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